Greatest American Film Director

[monosylab1k]

Who do you think is the greatest American born director? Apologies to whoever I left off the poll.

[L.I.T]

Current or historical?

[monosylab1k]

Of all time. I just added the poll but there's a max of 10 options there, so there's obviously a lot that have been left off.

[midgetonadonkey]

Why is Bob Saget not on this list?

[midgetonadonkey]

Seriously, no George Lucas?

Lame.

[Condemned 2 HelLA]

George Romero.
Everyone else are scrubs.

[duncan228]

Good choices.

George Lucas does need to be on there.

It's tough, do we go by personal taste in their films, critical success, box office success?

(My 12 year old wants Tim Burton on the list!)

[Oh, Gee!!]

What about David Lynch?

[monosylab1k]

It's tough, do we go by personal taste in their films, critical success, box office success?

I think some mixture of the 3.

But guys like Lucas, Burton, Zemeckis, Cassavettes, got left off simply cuz I could only make 10 on the poll. There's definitely way more great American directors.

I also didn't include alot of young directors that have a chance to be really great once they have a larger body of work (PT Anderson, Wes Anderson, Sofia Coppola, etc)

[monosylab1k]

What about David Lynch?
Yeah I was debating including him, Oliver Stone, Michael Mann, or Altman in that final spot....I went with Altman.

[L.I.T]

Of all time. I just added the poll but there's a max of 10 options there, so there's obviously a lot that have been left off.

Cool, I voted for Kubrick (also Coen Brothers get some attention). But just wanted to mention some other great American directors:

Billy Wilder
Orson Welles
Cecile B. Demille
Robert Wise (seriously, look up his filmography, one of the most versatile directors of all time)
Frank Capra (even though born in Italy, moved to the US when he was six)
John Ford
David Cronenberg

[Oh, Gee!!]

What about Sidney Lumet?

12 Angry Men
Serpico
Dog Day Afternoon
Network
to name a few

[Spurminator]

Apologies to whoever I left off the poll.

It's cool, I take no offense.

But if it's all time I think you should have included Cecil B. Demille.

[Spurminator]

Billy Wilder

He was actually born in Austria. I almost named him too.

[Oh, Gee!!]

It's all good; I like your list. I voted for Marty. C'mon now really it's no contest: Raging Bull, Goodfellas, Color of Money, Casino, THE DEPARTED!!!!

[monosylab1k]

What about Sidney Lumet?
yeah he's greatness. he even made Vin Diesel look like a decent actor in Find Me Guilty.

[L.I.T]

He was actually born in Austria. I almost named him too.

really? Damn didn't know that. There were a ton of good directors who primarily worked in the US that were born overseas.

Hell, that list is probably better than the list of great American directors (Ridley Scott, Alfred Hitchcock etc).

[Spurminator]

I grudgingly picked Spielberg from this list. I think he influenced a lot of the bad things happening in movies these days (gratuitous product placement, cutesy kids as comic relief), but he also created real movie magic in his hey-day.

Scorcese was a tough one to pick against. Ask me in two days and my vote may have already changed..

[leemajors]

Coens for me. I would also put frankenheimer on there for his earlier efforts

[u2sarajevo]

I can't believe Wes Anderson isn't in this poll....

[duncan228]

I had to vote for Clint Eastwood for my husband.
He's the biggest Eastwood fan ever.

The movie "True Crime" is probably one of his least known and one of his best.

That's not to mention the biggies he's won Oscars for.

[monosylab1k]

I can't believe Wes Anderson isn't in this poll....
i didn't think he accomplished enough to this point to be included. 10 years from now, maybe so.

[u2sarajevo]

i didn't think he accomplished enough to this point to be included. 10 years from now, maybe so.I read that after I posted, so apologies. But he is pretty easily my favorite American director, so that's why I posted what I did.

[monosylab1k]

it's cool, he's one of my top 5 favorites too, and Rushmore might be my favorite movie ever.

[whottt]

The movie "True Crime" is probably one of his least known and one of his best.

.



You know...True Crime isn't conciously on my list of all time great movies...

But it does have the distinction of being the only movie I have seen in my adult life that I didn't get up in the middle of to go smoke a cig or take a piss...Most of the time I have an inherent sense for when a movie is in a slow and unventful part(and I have always verified this with whoever I went to see the movie with, and they are always amazed at how I never miss a key part)...I literally could not find that moment during True Crime.


Definitely something special about that movie :tu

[whottt]

This list is a joke because it does not have John Huston, John Ford or Howard Hawks on it...


No John Huston? Pathetic MavFan...you sir are in dire need of a steeeeeeeeenking badge!

[ShoogarBear]

What about Sidney Lumet?
The second name I thought of.

The first was John Huston.

Also, you have John Ford, Frank Capra, William Wyler, Orson Welles, Howard Hawkes . . . etc.

[ShoogarBear]

Ah, Wyler and Capra weren't born in the US.

[L.I.T]

Stephen Soderbergh, while being a bit on the pop experimental side, is probably the top American director to come up in the last 15 years.

[monosylab1k]

sorry, i tend to forget some of the pioneers.

maybe it's cuz i grew up in the VHS generation, and it's probably a shame i'm even saying this, but the majority of American cinema pre-60's to me are alot like old school leather helmet football games - it paved the way but it's just seems old and boring.

it wasn't until after the French New Wave that American films really started to pick up steam, IMO.

[monosylab1k]

Austin's own Richard Linklater deserves mention.

[peewee's lovechild]

No George Lucas = Bullshit Thread

[monosylab1k]

No George Lucas = Bullshit Thread
He directed one classic (Star Wars), two decent films (american graffiti, thx-1138), and three absolute turds. Other ppl directed Empire and Return. As much money as his films have made, he is a SHITTY director.

I would say he's more a great visionary than great director.

[CuckingFunt]

Went with Scorsese as, I think, the obvious great of the list. But there are others on this list that would be on my list of faves (Tarantino, Coen Bros., Altman).

Also agree with the Lynch and Soderbergh mentions. Keeping this to contemporary directors, however (list just becomes WAY too overwhelming when I start looking at the classics), my very favorite director is Jim Jarmusch.

[peewee's lovechild]

He directed one classic (Star Wars), two decent films (american graffiti, thx-1138), and three absolute turds. Other ppl directed Empire and Return. As much money as his films have made, he is a SHITTY director.

I would say he's more a great visionary than great director.

THX is much better than decent, and Graffiti is a great classic.

You speak heresy and I will have you shot if you continue with your blasphemy.

[peewee's lovechild]

Went with Scorsese as, I think, the obvious great of the list. But there are others on this list that would be on my list of faves (Tarantino, Coen Bros., Altman).

Also agree with the Lynch and Soderbergh mentions. Keeping this to contemporary directors, however (list just becomes WAY too overwhelming when I start looking at the classics), my very favorite director is Jim Jarmusch.

I went with Scorsese too. But, Kubrick was a very, very close second.

[Spurminator]

Paul Greengrass and Christopher Nolan come to mind as current greats.

[peewee's lovechild]

Paul Greengrass and Christopher Nolan come to mind as current greats.

Is Nolan American??

I could be wrong, but I thought he was English.

[Spurminator]

You may be right, I didn't look it up.

[peewee's lovechild]

Greengrass did a fantastic job on United 93.

I saw the movie a couple of months ago. I never did want to see it because I thought it was going to be all hammed up with patriotism, but it was actually pretty damn good.

But, I'm not sure I'd put him up there with the "Greats".
Plus, he's also English.

[FromWayDowntown]

If you're going to put Lucas in a poll question like that, you absolutely have to include Orson Welles.

Say what you will, but Citizen Kane is absolute brilliance IMO.

[peewee's lovechild]

If you're going to put Lucas in a poll question like that, you absolutely have to include Orson Welles.

Say what you will, but Citizen Kane is absolute brilliance IMO.

I have to agree with you there.

Wells was a genius.

[Spurminator]

I don't know why I assumed so many of these guys were American.

Next you'll tell me Akira Kurosawa was a foreign film maker.

[peewee's lovechild]

I don't know why I assumed so many of these guys were American.

Next you'll tell me Akira Kurosawa was a foreign film maker.

:lol :lol :lol

Seven Samurai kicks all sorts of ass!!!!!!!

[CuckingFunt]

If you're going to put Lucas in a poll question like that, you absolutely have to include Orson Welles.

Say what you will, but Citizen Kane is absolute brilliance IMO.Citizen Kane is great, but it's all about Touch of Evil. Any film good enough to make you not care that Charlton Heston is playing a Mexican has GOT to be awesome.

[monosylab1k]

Greengrass did a fantastic job on United 93.

I saw the movie a couple of months ago. I never did want to see it because I thought it was going to be all hammed up with patriotism, but it was actually pretty damn good.

But, I'm not sure I'd put him up there with the "Greats".
Plus, he's also English.
He also made the films Watch This And Get Motion Sickness From All The Shaky Cam! Parts One and Two....released in America as The Bourne Supremacy and The Bourne Ultimatum

[CuckingFunt]

Paul Greengrass and Christopher Nolan come to mind as current greats.Both English.

And Greengrass made both of the Bourne sequels almost impossible to watch.

[peewee's lovechild]

The poll would also have been better served if Terrence Malick's name was there.

How the hell can you have Spike Lee up there and not Lucas or Malick???

[monosylab1k]

The poll would also have been better served if Terrence Malick's name was there.

How the hell can you have Spike Lee up there and not Lucas or Malick???
didn't want anyone calling me racist.

[peewee's lovechild]

didn't want anyone calling me racist.

Fuck that noise!!

It just doesn't make sense how you put him above Lucas or Malick.
It's just wrong.

It's wrong!!!

[monosylab1k]

plus, Lee has made some classics that were also socially relevant.

And I might have included Malick if he made more than one movie every decade.

[peewee's lovechild]

plus, Lee has made some classics that were also socially relevant.

And I might have included Malick if he made more than one movie every decade.

One Malick movie supercedes anything Lee has done.

Badlands and The Thin Red Line are over and beyond greater than any Lee product.

[leemajors]

The poll would also have been better served if Terrence Malick's name was there.

How the hell can you have Spike Lee up there and not Lucas or Malick???
lee has made 2-3 times as many good movies as lucas. no one else likes frankenheimer? manchurian candidate, seconds, birdman of alcatraz?

[peewee's lovechild]

lee has made 2-3 times as many good movies as lucas.

What movie(s) that Lee has made are better than Star Wars???

Go ahead, say it with a straight face.

[peewee's lovechild]

But, you're right about Frankenheimer.

I loved Ronin and Path To War on HBO was pretty god damned good.

[angel_luv]

Seriously, no George Lucas?

Lame.


My thought exactly.

[leemajors]

What movie(s) that Lee has made are better than Star Wars???

Go ahead, say it with a straight face.
do the right thing. star wars is highly entertaining and packs nostalgic punch, but isn't a terribly good movie. empire was WAY better, mostly because kirshner (sp?) directed it.

[Spurminator]

If it's just for one movie then Frank Darabont deserves mention too.

[peewee's lovechild]

do the right thing

Better than Star Wars???

:lmao

You can stop posting on this thread now.

[leemajors]

Better than Star Wars???

:lmao

You can stop posting on this thread now.
as soon as you quit insisting that lucas is a decent director.

[peewee's lovechild]

If it's just for one movie then Frank Darabont deserves mention too.

Shawshank, Green Mile . . . yeah, I'll give you that.
Plus, he's rumored to be directing Farenheit 451!!!

BUT, HE'S FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

as soon as you quit insisting that lucas is a decent director.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Ok, whatever.

I'm still cracking up at your previous post.

[CuckingFunt]

Legitimate question: should we be looking at film makers who are American born, or makers of American films?

[leemajors]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Ok, whatever.

I'm still cracking up at your previous post.
as is everyone but angel_luv at you wanting lucas on the list.

[Spurminator]

BUT, HE'S FRENCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ehhhh, you're right.

But he came to America as an infant. So cut me some slack.

[peewee's lovechild]

Legitimate question: should we be looking at film makers who are American born, or makers of American films?

I'm assuming that it's American born because of the way the question was posed.

If we go with American films, this will be quite a lengthy thread.

[peewee's lovechild]

Ehhhh, you're right.

But he came to America as an infant. So cut me some slack.

:lol

All right, I'll give you that.

[FromWayDowntown]

Citizen Kane is great, but it's all about Touch of Evil. Any film good enough to make you not care that Charlton Heston is playing a Mexican has GOT to be awesome.

I admire Kane because it's both a captivating picture and (as I understand such things) a true revolutionary step in film making. I'm no film expert, but I understand that Welles attempted and accomplished things in Kane that had never been tried before and that are now a part of every filmmaker's vocabulary. That's not to say that Welles didn't also do fabulous directing (and acting) jobs in other films; but Kane is a landmark film for reasons that go far beyond its compelling story.

[CuckingFunt]

As for Spike Lee, people can (and probably should) argue the merit of his heavy handed narrative techniques, and maybe those techniques have an impact of the accessibility and enjoyability of his films, but it's hard to deny his technical skills. Even the films of his that have pissed me off have been HUGELY impressive in terms of visual/compositional elements.

[peewee's lovechild]

As for Spike Lee, people can (and probably should) argue the merit of his heavy handed narrative techniques, and maybe those techniques have an impact of the accessibility and enjoyability of his films, but it's hard to deny his technical skills. Even the films of his that have pissed me off have been HUGELY impressive in terms of visual/compositional elements.

But, he's still no George Lucas.

[CuckingFunt]

I admire Kane because it's both a captivating picture and (as I understand such things) a true revolutionary step in film making. I'm no film expert, but I understand that Welles attempted and accomplished things in Kane that had never been tried before and that are now a part of every filmmaker's vocabulary. That's not to say that Welles didn't also do fabulous directing (and acting) jobs in other films; but Kane is a landmark film for reasons that go far beyond its compelling story.Oh, I agree. Kane is Wells' masterpiece, without question.

But Touch of Evil is equally impressive for its genre, and is the more enjoyable of the two films. Citizen Kane is brilliant, and both are a part of my DVD collection, but Touch of Evil is the one I reach for when I'm ready to watch a flick.

[CuckingFunt]

But, he's still no George Lucas.
No. In terms of technical skill -- and I'm talking about film techniques here, not CG and special effects -- I'd say that Spike Lee has Lucas beat by a considerable margin.

Lucas definitely is in the discussion when you're dealing with the whos and whys of technological advancements in film, but in general he's a much better storyteller than he is a filmmaker. Take away all the digital doodads from the prequels, for instance, and the films become quite... pedestrian.

Star Wars and American Graffiti are pure, but nothing else of his is really that impressive.

[E20]

I hate Woody Allen's sense of humor and dry comedy. It isn't funny.

[monosylab1k]

Take away all the digital doodads from the prequels, for instance, and the films become quite... pedestrian.
they're pedestrian even with all that crap in there.

special effects cease to be special when they're used in every shot of the entire movie.

[monosylab1k]

Better than Star Wars???
as far as entertainment value and in it's importance to the furthering of the craft, no, Do The Right Thing is not better than Star Wars.

as far as artistic value and social relevance and being a truly independent-minded film that sparks discussion, Do The Right Thing is far superior.

[peewee's lovechild]

No. In terms of technical skill -- and I'm talking about film techniques here, not CG and special effects -- I'd say that Spike Lee has Lucas beat by a considerable margin.

Lucas definitely is in the discussion when you're dealing with the whos and whys of technological advancements in film, but in general he's a much better storyteller than he is a filmmaker. Take away all the digital doodads from the prequels, for instance, and the films become quite... pedestrian.

Star Wars and American Graffiti are pure, but nothing else of his is really that impressive.

Movies are stories. They're supposed to have a storytelling narrative. You're supposed to believe in the characters and feel like your part of the environment.

Lucas does that and then some.

I don't think many people "get" the prequels because they desperatley want them to be exactly like the original trilogy. Take away everything else, and you still have a pure story of innocence perverted by fear.

[monosylab1k]

Legitimate question: should we be looking at film makers who are American born, or makers of American films?

Yeah I was thinking more of American born filmmakers. Or at least American raised - someone that grew up in this country and is influenced by that.

[leemajors]

lucas does have an incredible way of coaxing incredibly wooden performances from his actors. i think you may take me for a star wars basher, but i'm not - i loved the movie, but that doesn't mean it's a great film or that lucas is a great director. lucas gave us THX, ILM, and a host of other great stuff but i don't think you can say he's done stellar work as a director. do you think spike lee could make ewan macgregor look so bad?

[peewee's lovechild]

as far as entertainment value and in it's importance to the furthering of the craft, no, Do The Right Thing is not better than Star Wars.

as far as artistic value and social relevance and being a truly independent-minded film that sparks discussion, Do The Right Thing is far superior.

Lucas and Coppola are the Godfathers (pardon the pun) of independent filmaking.

[monosylab1k]

I don't think many people "get" the prequels
Lucas himself didn't "get" the prequels either as they're full of holes in plot, logic, and basic human behavior.

I don't think Lucas "gets" humanity anymore either as you could have easily replaced Anakin with a droid and gotten the same result.

[monosylab1k]

Lucas and Coppola are the Godfathers (pardon the pun) of independent filmaking.
John Cassavetes might disagree with that (if he was still alive of course)

And outside of the US, Truffaut and Godard were true independent filmmakers well before Lucas and Coppola.

[leemajors]

actually, the best thing lucas, spielberg, and coppola ever did was get Ran and kagemusha the budgets and exposure they deserved.

[CuckingFunt]

Movies are stories. They're supposed to have a storytelling narrative. You're supposed to believe in the characters and feel like your part of the environment.But they're also a visual art form, so that has to account for something as well.

The core of this argument, of course, is that both directors are so completely opposite in style as to make it almost impossible to compare. Star Wars directed by Spike Lee would be horrible. So would Do The Right Thing directed by Geroge Lucas.

[peewee's lovechild]

lucas does have an incredible way of coaxing incredibly wooden performances from his actors. i think you may take me for a star wars basher, but i'm not - i loved the movie, but that doesn't mean it's a great film or that lucas is a great director. lucas gave us THX, ILM, and a host of other great stuff but i don't think you can say he's done stellar work as a director. do you think spike lee could make ewan macgregor look so bad?

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ACT THAT WAY!!!!!

Remember that the characters were from a very proper society. They were supposed to hide their emotions and put on a different face to others. That's why Anakin was always confused with his emotions. Do you think Palpatine put on a wooden performance?? No, that's because he gave in to his emotions, which was a Jedi no-no.

I said it once and I'll say it again, most people just don't get what the prequels were all about.

[peewee's lovechild]

Lucas himself didn't "get" the prequels either as they're full of holes in plot, logic, and basic human behavior.

I don't think Lucas "gets" humanity anymore either as you could have easily replaced Anakin with a droid and gotten the same result.

You have to understand the world that Lucas created in order to understand the way his characters interacted.

[CuckingFunt]

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ACT THAT WAY!!!!!

I'm a child of two actors and have practically grown up in the theater -- no one, ever, is supposed to act that way. For any reason.

[monosylab1k]

THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO ACT THAT WAY!!!!!

acting can be understated and subtle without being wooden. See Gwyneth Paltrow in The Royal Tenenbaums. Actually everyone in The Royal Tenenbaums.

[peewee's lovechild]

John Cassavetes might disagree with that (if he was still alive of course)

And outside of the US, Truffaut and Godard were true independent filmmakers well before Lucas and Coppola.

First of all, we're talking about American directors.

Secondly, they were the ones that changed everything on Hollywood because they refused to play by their rules.

They put American Independent films on the map, something that has been lost in the past few years.

[peewee's lovechild]

But they're also a visual art form, so that has to account for something as well.

The core of this argument, of course, is that both directors are so completely opposite in style as to make it almost impossible to compare. Star Wars directed by Spike Lee would be horrible. So would Do The Right Thing directed by Geroge Lucas.

Agreed.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm a child of two actors and have practically grown up in the theater -- no one, ever, is supposed to act that way. For any reason.

Yes they are, if they're supposed to be Jedi's who are void of any emotions whatsoever.

[leemajors]

You have to understand the world that Lucas created in order to understand the way his characters interacted.
i assume you can also not begin to comprehend shakespeare without a full knowledge of Victorian society, Mr. Eliot.

[peewee's lovechild]

acting can be understated and subtle without being wooden. See Gwyneth Paltrow in The Royal Tenenbaums. Actually everyone in The Royal Tenenbaums.

Apples and oranges my friend.

[monosylab1k]

First of all, we're talking about American directors.

Cassavetes was American.


Secondly, they were the ones that changed everything on Hollywood because they refused to play by their rules.

They put American Independent films on the map, something that has been lost in the past few years.

Scorsese and Coppola did far more to further the craft than Lucas ever did. Lucas made it possible for Michael Bay and Roland Emmerich to bukkake us all with stupid.

[monosylab1k]

Apples and oranges my friend.
not really

you say the "culture" of the Star Wars world is to suppress emotion and not show it outwardly.

The Royal Tenenbaums has nothing but characters who hide and suppress their emotions as much as possible.

Wes Anderson got good performances out of his actors, George Lucas did not. End of story.

[peewee's lovechild]

i assume you can also not begin to comprehend shakespeare without a full knowledge of Victorian society, Mr. Eliot.

That's acutally a very good statement.

I taught in public school for years and the kids always complained that they just "didn't get Shakespeare". If you fully understand Shakespeare's society, it definitely helps in understanding his works.

Not to say that it's necessary, of course.

[peewee's lovechild]

Cassavetes was American.



Scorsese and Coppola did far more to further the craft than Lucas ever did. Lucas made it possible for Michael Bay and Roland Emmerich to bukkake us all with stupid.

I don't know how to respond to that.

But, I get where you're going with Cassavettes.

[peewee's lovechild]

not really

Yes it is.

Anderson's characters have problems understanding their emotions.

Lucas' Jedi, are not supposed to have emotions.

Apples and oranges.

[CuckingFunt]

Yes they are, if they're supposed to be Jedi's who are void of any emotions whatsoever.But... it doesn't come across as void of emotions. It comes across as a crappy performance.

Part of the "better story teller than filmmaker" thing -- Lucas' goal is presenting the story, and the toys. The camera work, editing and performances are secondary, and it shows. And it IS the director's job to direct the performances.

It's one of the things that sets Scorsese so far apart from the pack. Hell, even Sharon Stone got (and deserved!) an Oscar nomination when she worked with him. Spike Lee's not quite on that level, few are, but he's also managed to coax a few amazing performances.

[monosylab1k]

Lucas' Jedi, are not supposed to have emotions.
just sounds like a quick write-in on the script so that Lucas could just tell his actors "just be as dull as possible, i don't give a crap" while he went and played with all his cool little gadgets instead of doing some real directing work.

[monosylab1k]

Spike Lee's not quite on that level, few are, but he's also managed to coax a few amazing performances.
Denzel's performance in Malcolm X is my favorite of all time, especially if you read the biography of Malcolm X and see any old footage of him. Denzel had him down perfect, and it wasn't just some Jamie Foxx-like imitation, he had the heart and soul of Malcolm X in that performance.

[L.I.T]

Arguing that George Lucas is a great director of performances is like arguing cinematography is the preeminent factor in whether a film is good.

Lucas is a fantastic director of set pieces, of broad stroke storytelling, but his capability when it comes to developing nuances in storylines and characters is not up to par.

If you are going to argue that you can't communicate personality without emotion I would point you towards Leonard Nimoy's Spock.

[leemajors]

That's acutally a very good statement.

I taught in public school for years and the kids always complained that they just "didn't get Shakespeare". If you fully understand Shakespeare's society, it definitely helps in understanding his works.

Not to say that it's necessary, of course.
what's funny is shakespeare was for the common folk in its day - marlowe was the highbrow stuff.

[L.I.T]

And I'm quite saddened that Eastwood has more votes than Altman. I know he fell off the last few years, but honestly, the man took 5 years to die that's gotta impact the quality of his filmmaking.

[ShoogarBear]

No George Lucas = Bullshit ThreadGeorge Lucas, while a good moviemaker, is often a horrible director.

[ShoogarBear]

But I see you've already been thoroughly owned on that subject.

[ShoogarBear]

Another guy who hasn't done much lately, but has many very impressive credentials: Mike Nichols.

[Thunder Dan]

Why is Bob Saget not on this list?

LOL Dirty Work was a great movie.

I think Spielberg will get alot of votes because his movies are well known and he also had a ton of blackbusters, but I think he is overrated. His movies don't have near the intellect that those of Kubrick and even Scorsese's do. Spielberg just made movies about what he knew people would like: Dinosaurs, Aliens,the future...blah blah blah

I voted for Martin

[peewee's lovechild]

just sounds like a quick write-in on the script so that Lucas could just tell his actors "just be as dull as possible, i don't give a crap" while he went and played with all his cool little gadgets instead of doing some real directing work.

That's sort of the idea.

I was having a conversation with a friend just a while ago about this. I told her that the jedi are supposed to be dull. They are forbidden to have any emotion at all. They are supposed to be all business.

I think Lucas was looking to the English on this. You know . . . the never show your emotions, keep a stiff upper lip, be proper type of stuff.

I sure the "woodden" performances were intentional.

[peewee's lovechild]

what's funny is shakespeare was for the common folk in its day - marlowe was the highbrow stuff.

Shakespeare often made fun of the highbrow society, wich is why the common folk loved him.

Having an understanding of Shakespeare's contemporary society will help with his comedic works, for those that don't fully understand them.

[peewee's lovechild]

Lucas is a fantastic director of set pieces, of broad stroke storytelling, but his capability when it comes to developing nuances in storylines and characters is not up to par.



So the whole Vader is Lukes father and Lea is his twin was a shitty developement in the SW storyline?

Wow.

[leemajors]

So the whole Vader is Lukes father and Lea is his twin was a shitty developement in the SW storyline?

Wow.
it wasn't exactly a nuanced development.

[peewee's lovechild]

it wasn't exactly a nuanced development.

Why don't you try explaining what you meant?

What is so unnuanced (not sure if it's a word, but what the hell) about the Star Wars storyline?

[L.I.T]

So the whole Vader is Lukes father and Lea is his twin was a shitty developement in the SW storyline?

Wow.

Where did I say shitty? Indicate that for me.

I'm saying that he's a broad strokes story teller who doesn't waste time with developing nuances in characterizations and stories. That, the Vader is the father twist, is a broad story development; it's something that is a MAJOR device to move the plot along. Again, that is what he deals in, BROAD AND MAJOR PLOT devices. You do know what nuances are right? Nuances are what you find in movies such as Alien. Where small, seemingly innocuous events, asides or pieces of dialogue create some level of humanity to the story.

Again, Lucas is not so concerned with developing his characters as recreating mythologically based story arcs on screen. It's not as much as a critique as you seem to take it; more of description of his directoral style. The Star Wars movies, by his own admission, are space operas.

[peewee's lovechild]

Where did I say shitty? Indicate that for me.

I'm saying that he's a broad strokes story teller who doesn't waste time with developing nuances in characterizations and stories. That, the Vader is the father twist, is a broad story development; it's something that is a MAJOR device to move the plot along. Again, that is what he deals in, BROAD AND MAJOR PLOT devices. You do know what nuances are right? Nuances are what you find in movies such as Alien. Where small, seemingly innocuous events, asides or pieces of dialogue create some level of humanity to the story.

Again, Lucas is not so concerned with developing his characters as recreating mythologically based story arcs on screen. It's not as much as a critique as you seem to take it; more of description of his directoral style. The Star Wars movies, by his own admission, are space operas.

I sort of see where you're comming from, but I don't totally agree. I mean, he even broke down the orgin of the force to medichlorians for gods sake!!

I can see your point on the broad strokes, but I just don't think you can apply it to the entire saga (both OT and NT).

[SRJ]

My vote is for Woody Allen. I didn't expect him to do well in this poll, but I certainly didn't expect to be the only one to vote for him.

[L.I.T]

I sort of see where you're comming from, but I don't totally agree. I mean, he even broke down the orgin of the force to medichlorians for gods sake!!

I can see your point on the broad strokes, but I just don't think you can apply it to the entire saga (both OT and NT).

Agree to disagree on this one. Lucas created what likely was the finest epics in cinematic history; and nothing came along that could touch it until Peter Jackson's LOTR. I just can't put him on the same level of all-around directors as some of the ones in the list.

Lucas though, is a finer producer than director. Arguably, the best movie on either Spielbergs or Lucas' resume is Raiders of the Lost Ark.

[peewee's lovechild]

Agree to disagree on this one. Lucas created what likely was the finest epics in cinematic history; and nothing came along that could touch it until Peter Jackson's LOTR. I just can't put him on the same level of all-around directors as some of the ones in the list.

Lucas though, is a finer producer than director. Arguably, the best movie on either Spielbergs or Lucas' resume is Raiders of the Lost Ark.

I agree with the last part (although I think Empire is the best movie on Lucas' resume), and I'll agree to disagree on the rest.

Peter Jackson is the second coming of George Lucas.

[leemajors]

Why don't you try explaining what you meant?

What is so unnuanced (not sure if it's a word, but what the hell) about the Star Wars storyline?
vader bad, now vader your father after he chop your arm off. development? yes, great plot twist? yes - subtle, nuanced development? no.

[leemajors]

i would say that the more money jackson gets, the more his movies suffer. i really liked the two towers, but wasn't terribly impressed with return of the king or king kong. they were very nice looking movies though. i happen to prefer bad taste to either.

[leemajors]

i would say that the leia as sister was better developed though. i was speaking about that particular incident (vader is your father) previously.

[TheZackAttack!]

I agree with the last part (although I think Empire is the best movie on Lucas' resume), and I'll agree to disagree on the rest.

Peter Jackson is the second coming of George Lucas.


Actually Lucus only directed A new Hope, Irvin Kershner directed Empire and some other guy directed Return. Nobody has a more impressive body of work than Spielberg.

[peewee's lovechild]

Actually Lucus only directed A new Hope, Irvin Kershner directed Empire and some other guy directed Return. Nobody has a more impressive body of work than Spielberg.

Read well before you post.

We were talking about Lucas' and Spilebergs resumes.
Lucas produced Empire, thus it is in his resume.

Read, make sure you read.

[TheZackAttack!]

Read well before you post.

We were talking about Lucas' and Spilebergs resumes.
Lucas produced Empire, thus it is in his resume.

Read, make sure you read.

LOL, I knew you'd throw out the producing angle. Funny.

[CuckingFunt]

Peter Jackson is the second coming of George Lucas.
I thoroughly agree with this statement, though I bet I mean it differently than you do.

[leemajors]

Actually Lucus only directed A new Hope, Irvin Kershner directed Empire and some other guy directed Return. Nobody has a more impressive body of work than Spielberg.
kubrick's is far more impressive.

[TheZackAttack!]

kubrick's is far more impressive.

lol, really

[leemajors]

lol, really
and if you're talking worldwide directors, you're way out of your element here. kurosawa wipes the floor with spielberg.

[TheZackAttack!]

Munich > Eyes Wide Shut

[TheZackAttack!]

and if you're talking worldwide directors, you're way out of your element here. kurosawa wipes the floor with spielberg.

Im talking about the directors in the poll, but I do admit I don't know who Kurosawa is.

[Findog]

where's michael bay on this list?

[L.I.T]

Im talking about the directors in the poll, but I do admit I don't know who Kurosawa is.

And Kubrick still wipes the floor with Spielberg. If you don't know Kurosawa you don't know movies.

[L.I.T]

i would say that the more money jackson gets, the more his movies suffer. i really liked the two towers, but wasn't terribly impressed with return of the king or king kong. they were very nice looking movies though. i happen to prefer bad taste to either.

I agree, The Two Towers was actually my favorite of the three. In King Kong's fatal flaw was the fact that he wrote it and was way to close (emotionally) to the source material.

[Findog]

btw Spielberg sucks. Not because he doesn't have talent, but what he does with it. Schindler's List aside, he just can't make a dark movie. See Minority Report - paints himself into a narrative corner where a happy ending just isn't possible or realistic, and then he pulls one out of his ass anyway.

It's been a long time since Indiana Jones.

[leemajors]

And Kubrick still wipes the floor with Spielberg. If you don't know Kurosawa you don't know movies.
i'm still waiting on my drunken angel criterion to come out.

[L.I.T]

i'm still waiting on my drunken angel criterion to come out.

I would actually line up for a criterion treatment of Drunken Angel. Camp-out with the little coolers and everything for that movie.

I have the Seven Samurai one, but haven't been able to pick up Ran yet. Damn Criterion and their perfect releases. Damn them!

[leemajors]

i have all of them but the Ran, i think.

[monosylab1k]

Anybody else a big David Gordon Green fan? If you like Malick you probably like Green as well.

[monosylab1k]

I sure the "woodden" performances were intentional.
A wooden performance is never intentional.

What's that saying about leading a horse to water? That's how this is going. We can show you all the evidence but there's no point because you're seeing this through Fanboy-colored glasses.

In the long run, Lucas did a tremendous amount of good for the popcorn movie, but didn't contribute anything at all to the artistic side of filmmaking.

[atxrocker]

uh.. alright i've not voted yet. not read much of the thread. i do agree however that spielberg is entirely overrated, though i was impressed with his effort on A.I. (which i always thought was underrated actually)

[J.T.]

I voted Tarantino.

Had Kevin Smith been on the list I would have voted him.

[leemajors]

I voted Tarantino.

Had Kevin Smith been on the list I would have voted him.
wow. that's terrible.

[O-Factor]

I voted Tarantino.

Had Kevin Smith been on the list I would have voted him.

WTF,Kevin Smith! Jeez.

[Spurminator]

uh.. alright i've not voted yet. not read much of the thread. i do agree however that spielberg is entirely overrated, though i was impressed with his effort on A.I. (which i always thought was underrated actually)


I don't think he's overrated anymore... There seems to be a backlash against him by movie enthusiasts because of his past overratedness. I look at his resume, and while there are some absolute stinkers he's still made a dozen GREAT movies IMO. Some of them (like Jurassic Park and Raiders) are popcorn action flicks, but they're great for what they are and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with making a movie for strictly entertainment value.

Remember, we're talking about directors not writers.

[monosylab1k]

I must say, whether it's the script writers he chooses or if he's making changes himself, Spielberg is getting notorious for making a great movie but pulling a shitty, cop-out ending out of his ass. His endings tend to have some Deux Ex Machina and then always go out on a weak, sentimental, happy note. And he's getting worse with age (see War Of The Worlds, where conveniently at the 2 hour or so mark, amoebas magically kill the fuck out of the aliens, his son magically reappears at home after walking into a massacre, and the movie is over)

even his best movie IMO, Saving Private Ryan, had a cop-out ending - everything is going to shit until out of nowhere the "angels on our shoulders" appear even though extra support wasn't even supposed to be coming.

[ShoogarBear]

If we're going to talk about overrated, the list begins with Tarantino.

[monosylab1k]

If we're going to talk about overrated, the list begins with Tarantino.
I still like Tarantino, but his legion of shitty copycats are unbearable.

[leemajors]

If we're going to talk about overrated, the list begins with Tarantino.
here here.

[monosylab1k]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=episode3
the genius of George Lucas spelled out here.

[leemajors]

i actually overcame my dislike of jar jar, and embraced him as the best character in the new movies. he got screwed in ep III.

[monosylab1k]

yeah by the time Ep III came around Anakin got so fucking annoying that I was praying for some Jar Jar.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Two directors in my top 15 not discussed yet are the Happy Days gang of Ron Howard and Penny Marshall.

[monosylab1k]

pre-Elizabethtown Cameron Crowe deserves mention, although it really annoys the hell out of me how every movie is about the "music" and not the story. I think he spends more times coming up with a soundtrack than he does writing his screenplays.

[ShoogarBear]

Two directors in my top 15 not discussed yet are the Happy Days gang of Ron Howard and Penny Marshall.I don't consider them great, but they're certainly very good.

Rob Reiner is also in that mix.

[CuckingFunt]

I still like Tarantino, but his legion of shitty copycats are unbearable.Agreed.

And while Tarantino as a person annoys the holy fuck out of me, he does too many things well to be completely written off.

[dallaskd]

bullshit poll. no mel gibson

[monosylab1k]

bullshit poll. no mel gibson
the movies he's directed all suck

[peewee's lovechild]

the movies he's directed all suck

Come on!!!!

[monosylab1k]

Come on!!!!
well, Braveheart was decent.

Apocalypto sucked, Man Without A Face i don't even need to comment on, and Passion Of The Christ wasn't even a real movie.