Why don't the Spurs have more American players?

[Consigliere]

2 Frenchies
2 Argies
1 Slovenian
1 Dutch dude
1 Virgin Islander
1 African

8/14 :wtf

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

have you ever heard the term " We goin Global on this B-I-itch"

[Mister Sinister]

Uh....WGAF?

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

For the same reason that you don't see alot of American fruit pickers in the Rio Grande Valley. Illegals work cheaper, and that works for Holt.

[some_user86]

2 Frenchies
2 Argies
1 Slovenian
1 Dutch dude
1 Virgin Islander
1 African

8/14 :wtf

Which of our guys is African?

And what does it matter if we have less American players? We choose the players that best fit our team. Since when does nationality have anything to do with that?

[Nego]

Consigliere what are you smoking??... what the heck does it matter? I think those comments might walk the line there pal...

[Mister Sinister]

Consigliere what are you smoking??... what the heck does it matter? I think those comments might walk the line there pal...
Between what? High and stupid?

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

i actually think i get it now, but its still not funny.is it?

[Consigliere]

Which of our guys is African?

And what does it matter if we have less American players? We choose the players that best fit our team. Since when does nationality have anything to do with that?Udoka

[some_user86]

Udoka

Nope, Udoka was born in the US - Portland, Oregon.

[Consigliere]

well he's part Nigerian anyway

[Mister Sinister]

You still haven't explained why any of this matters.

[Nego]

Udoka

Dude that is funny... :lol where did you get that information? Amazing... :nerd

[Dex]

well he's part Nigerian anyway

Well if we're talking parts, then i'd venture to guess that 100% of our American players are part-SOMETHING.

Now look what you've done. We're an all foreign team because you couldn't see outside the lines.

[some_user86]

well he's part Nigerian anyway

Ohhhh, I understand now, Americanism is defined by how American the parents are to begin with. And here I thought it had to do with being an American citizen, either natural or naturalized. But I guess I was wrong. :rolleyes

[Dex]

If only there had been any Aztecs in the draft, we could finally get our repeat.

[Consigliere]

You still haven't explained why any of this matters.very few of them would be playing for their national team, that's why

[Mister Sinister]

very few of them would be playing for their national team, that's why
?_?

[Buddy Holly]

When did Miss Teen South Carolina become a Spurs fan and register for this forum?

[ChumpDumper]

So we shouldn't have signed Udoka because he might play for his home country of Portland, Africa in the Olympics.

[L.I.T]

Xenophobia thy name is "Mob boss's personal assistant"

[Kathyladora]

I'm confused. Weren't you the one who started the topic about Manu being unloyal because he's not playing for his national team, but now you want the Spurs to have fewer foreign players because you don't want them to play for their national teams?

[Switchman]

Because George Bush doesn't care about American nba players.

[v2freak]

Someone asks a question and people automatically assume that he has a problem with it/is xenophobic? No, it doesn't matter, but it's the offseason so who cares if someone asks?

[Nego]

Xenophobia thy name is "Mob boss's personal assistant"

I wouldnt go as far a that..wait a minute... I'm not sure what he means either :lol

[Indazone]

damn furiners taking all our jobs!

[anakha]

I'm confused. Weren't you the one who started the topic about Manu being unloyal because he's not playing for his national team, but now you want the Spurs to have fewer foreign players because you don't want them to play for their national teams?

If you're asking for the person to show his/her logic behind the question, be prepared to grow old and grey before actually getting it. :lol

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

damn furiners taking all our jobs!
http://static.flickr.com/39/84794196_1ffc979d41.jpg
Day tuk ur jubs!

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs love outsourcing...

[Clemenza]

We can work a deal with the Spurs again, give us the 2 Argies for Rafer Alston bad ass and a bag of pretzels.

Viva AMERICA :smokin :smokin :smokin

[anakha]

We can work a deal with the Spurs again, give us the 2 Argies for Rafer Alston bad ass and a bag of pretzels.

Viva AMERICA :smokin :smokin :smokin

Make it Beno for the pretzels and we can start talking business. :lol

[Clemenza]

And the Slovenian for free.

[Clemenza]

Make it Beno for the pretzels and we can start talking business. :lol

Didn't saw your post, the Slovenian kid for free, because this thing I am smokin' made me eat them all
:smokin :fro :spin

[sa_butta]

Dont you know most Americans dont have maps??

[Darkwaters]

That reminds me of a quote about Paul Millsap from the forum last year. Millsap was tearing us up and somebody got all upset and said:

"Why did this guy have to be American? We don't draft Americans. If his name were Pau Millsapovich that bitch would have been ours!"

[ShoogarBear]

That reminds me of a quote about Paul Millsap from the forum last year. Millsap was tearing us up and somebody got all upset and said:

"Why did this guy have to be American? We don't draft Americans. If his name were Pau Millsapovich that bitch would have been ours!"
Actually, I said "Pablo Milsapovic", but Pau works, too. :smokin

[ShoogarBear]

UdokaThen I guess Matt Bonner is Irish?

[samikeyp]

Make it Beno for the pretzels and we can start talking business

How about we give you Beno AND the pretzels? :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

At least Tony Parker's name sounds American, right?

In any event, Pop is clearly soft on immigration. He probably supports terrorists, too.

[ShoogarBear]

http://www.hoanewsnetwork.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/Dobbs_North_American_Union.jpg

"Time to investigate . . . "

[spursfan78160]

What does it matter? We have 4 trophies...

[Reggie Miller]

When did Miss Teen South Carolina become a Spurs fan and register for this forum?

Don't diss Miss Teen South Carolina that way. Her goals are to become a dental hygenist and fight for world peace, but even she isn't that dumb...

[MajorMike]

http://static.flickr.com/39/84794196_1ffc979d41.jpg
Day tuk ur jubs!


Day tuk yur jaab!

[Oh, Gee!!]

Immigr8sheeOWN3D!!

[Obstructed_View]

So we shouldn't have signed Udoka because he might play for his home country of Portland, Africa in the Olympics.
:lmao

[samikeyp]

Day tuk yur jaab!

"All I want is a goddamn cheeseburger and some goddamn fries, you fuckin' gooback!"

[Spurminator]

We're going back to the pile!

[Indazone]

yah..stop bringing in furieners...stop hiring aggies!

[spursfan78160]

We are all foreign.

[angel_luv]

2 Frenchies
2 Argies
1 Slovenian
1 Dutch dude
1 Virgin Islander
1 African

8/14 :wtf


You act like a team full of foreigners is a bad thing. :lol
The team could use some more Slovenians, but other than that... :tu Dreamilicious! :)

[Solid D]

http://www.nyc24.org/2003/islands/zone6/images/zone6_history_photo2.jpghttp://z.about.com/d/forestry/1/0/W/7/lady_lib.jpg

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.

[travis2]

8/14 :wtf

4/9 :tu

[Consigliere]

So I had a change of heart about Tony's work with his National Team...Mike Finger told me to

[E20]

Why don't the Spurs have more American players?
Cuz, we don't like AmeriKKKans, and if you don't like that then get of the USA son.











j/k :lol

[JamStone]

Why the hell would the Spurs want Josh Howard and David Lee? They suck and wouldn't fit in the Spurs system at all. The Spurs were better off not getting those U.S. American hacks and just drafting guys from Kickbackistan and Spankola or just trading late first round picks away. :p:

[ShoogarBear]

Why the hell would the Spurs want Josh Howard and David Lee? :pctoss

[ShoogarBear]

Oh, and JamStone:

http://www.thesportstruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/dwayne-wade.jpg http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/darko_milicic-arton21092-240x240.jpg

[JamStone]

Oh, and JamStone:

http://www.thesportstruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/dwayne-wade.jpg http://www.hoopsvibe.com/IMG/darko_milicic-arton21092-240x240.jpg



LMAO!!!!!

Fuck you Shoogar. Fuck you and your family!

:bang

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

For the same reason that you don't see alot of American fruit pickers in the Rio Grande Valley. Illegals work cheaper, and that works for Holt.


:lol @ SFIE

[lefty]

There is no Algerien player :depressed :cry

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

http://static.flickr.com/39/84794196_1ffc979d41.jpg
Day tuk ur jubs!


Day tuk yur jaab!


"All I want is a goddamn cheeseburger and some goddamn fries, you fuckin' gooback!"


We're going back to the pile!

:rollin

[lefty]

http://static.flickr.com/39/84794196_1ffc979d41.jpg
Day tuk ur jubs!

Damn, I loved that episode :lol

In French it was : Ils nous volent notre travail ! nous volent notre travaail....

[Consigliere]

See what happened to Elson!?!

[Mister Sinister]

See what happened to Elson!?!
:rolleyes

[judaspriestess]

The Spurs are reflecting what the NBA has become, an International sport.

They have had much success with International players so why change it?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

LMAO this Consigliere guy cant be serious.

[v2freak]

To answer the question (because no one else has, they just keep talking about how it's not a bad thing even though no one said it was), the Spurs generally draft very late. At the 28th pick of the first round, they generally go with the best available player who is more often than not an international player. The Spurs have lots of scouts and while they get tons of credit for their international drafting, the reality is that only Parker and Ginobili have panned out.

However, I'd believe that if it came down to the 28th pick and there were two players, one American and one international and they were of equal ability, the Spurs would still pick the international player. As far as I know, there's no reason why, but that's the way it is.

[JamStone]

Oh there's a reason why. It's because with international players, it's easier for the Spurs to keep that player overseas and not have to pay the guaranteed rookie contract. While Holt is not as bad as Sarver, he's still a penny pincher sometimes. When the Spurs have been close to the luxury tax, they have made moves with players in order to stay under it. One way to stay under the luxury tax is to not pay a guaranteed rookie salary. That's why the Spurs traded away the rights to John Salmons and Leandro Barbosa. That's why they didn't draft Josh Howard. That's why they went with Ian Mahinmi instead of David Lee.

Some people can say that the Spurs are the best at scouting and then developing international talent. And, that's probably true. But, there's absolutely a factor of using late first round draft picks as future assets while not having to pay those rookies with guaranteed money unless the Spurs are ready to bring them over from overseas.

With as dominant as Duncan has been and how he's shown the ability to win with many different teammates, the Spurs have been more and more comfortable with taking chances on international talent that will be able to blend in win Duncan easily and not have to take an American college player and give him a guaranteed contract.

But, think about it. The Spurs could boast a team that also featured the likes of Josh Howard, Carlos Boozer, David Lee, and Chris Duhon if the Spurs would actually spend late first rounders on quality American college players.

[ChumpDumper]

Detroit could have boasted a team that still had Okur if they wanted to pay the luxury tax badly enough.

Only one team doesn't care about the tax.

[Consigliere]

LMAO this Consigliere guy cant be serious.as a heart attack....or a broken face

[JamStone]

Detroit could have boasted a team that still had Okur if they wanted to pay the luxury tax badly enough.

Only one team doesn't care about the tax.


Actually a false statement. Once the Jazz offered Okur what they did, the Pistons could not afford both Okur and Rasheed in the summer of 2004 how the CBA was structured back then. It was one or the other. The Pistons chose Rasheed.

And, even so, what does that have to do with why the Spurs don't draft Americans? Just because I gave my opinion as to why the Spurs don't draft Americans, you don't have to get sensitive and try to take a shot at Detroit. It has nothing to do with the topic.

[FromWayDowntown]

That's why the Spurs traded away the rights to John Salmons and Leandro Barbosa. That's why they didn't draft Josh Howard. That's why they went with Ian Mahinmi instead of David Lee.

I'm not sure that most of those assertions are correct. The Spurs traded away the rights to John Salmons to acquire Speedy Claxton, who played a significant role in the 2003 championship.

The Barbosa transaction was a money decision, but it wasn't one made to avoid the luxury tax; it was a move designed to maintain room to make a pitch to Jason Kidd -- hardly a penny-pinching desire, even if not one that was ultimately fulfilled. Since the Spurs traded away the Barbosa pick to make a run at Kidd and since Josh Howard was selected immediately after Barbosa, citing to Howard fails for the same reason, I think. Each may have proven to be a dumb move, but neither was a decision made in an effort to avoid the luxury tax, as best I recall.

I'll give you that the Mahinmi over Lee decision is certainly closer to the contention that you make.


Some people can say that the Spurs are the best at scouting and then developing international talent. And, that's probably true. But, there's absolutely a factor of using late first round draft picks as future assets while not having to pay those rookies with guaranteed money unless the Spurs are ready to bring them over from overseas.

In the post-lockout era, I'm not sure that the Spurs have used too many late first round picks in that manner. They've dealt picks in some circumstances to acquire future assets -- the pick that became Barbosa, for instance -- but other than Mahinmi and Splitter (who was arguably the best player available when he was selected), the Spurs haven't done what you say:

2000 -- no #1
2001 -- Tony Parker
2002 -- John Salmons (traded for Claxton)
2003 -- Leandro Barbosa (traded to PNX)
2004 -- Beno Udrih
2005 -- Ian Mahinmi
2006 -- traded pick to NY for Nazr Mohammed
2007 -- Tiago Splitter

[timmy21_4rings]

Spurs are contenders for past 10 seasons. So they really do not need much contributions from rookies (considering that Spurs always have late first round picks). If Spurs pick international talent, they can always let them grow in other leagues and bring them back later. Rather than brining a college kid whose only other place to go is NBDL. Euro league is better than NBDL, considering talents each of them produced to NBA over the years.

Does anyone think that players like Lee would have got more opportunities with us than Knicks? I do not think so. He would have to play behind our established forwards. So Lee would not become a player that he is if he is with Spurs. Look what happened to Butler. Guys like Lee would be buried under somewhere. Spurs management knows that if we pick American college players, they have to be in NBDL or in casual dress because of team's talent. To keep them in NBDL we have to pay $$$.

Other reason I can think of is that (just may be) Spurs do not want too many egos in locker room. It is generally conceived that international players come with less ego and less maintenance. So management just tries to balance out. That does not mean all our American players has big ego. Look at Gino,we are bouncing him back and forth between bench and starting line-ups. He does not complain. Not many American players would do it. So Spurs might have thought it is not worth taking risk at the late round.

Having said all these, I wonder how Spurs missed Josh Howard. He won one major award (I do not remember which one) and rumors were that Duncan wanted Josh. I really feel that Josh would have been a nice addition but would have cost more money during re-signing. May be a blessing now.

[ChumpDumper]

The Pistons could have kept both Sheed and Okur. There was nothing in the CBA that made it impossible.
And, even so, what does that have to do with why the Spurs don't draft Americans? Just because I gave my opinion as to why the Spurs don't draft Americans, you don't have to get sensitive and try to take a shot at Detroit. It has nothing to do with the topic.:lol I knew you'd get angry, that's why I brought it up. But it looks like you learned something about your team too, so you're welcome.

[LavaLamp]

Argies are American. They're just not from the United States. :)

[JamStone]

The Pistons could have kept both Sheed and Okur. There was nothing in the CBA that made it impossible.:lol I knew you'd get angry, that's why I brought it up. But it looks like you learned something about your team too, so you're welcome.

False.

If the Pistons matched the type of offer Memo got from Utah, they would have had to waive the Bird rights to Rasheed. At that point, they would not have been under the salary cap enough to offer Rasheed the type of contract he received.. Not angry at all. It was an inaccurate statement, and it had nothing to do with the topic.

The way the CBA was structured back then, there was no limit on what second draft picks could be offered by teams that didn't draft them. Now, they can't be offered more than the MLE after two seasons in the league, and the teams that draft them can match up to the MLE. That's the early Bird rights clause. In 2004, Memo had just finished his second season in the League and Utah offered him a contract starting at a salary way above the MLE. The Pistons would have had to waive Rasheed's Bird rights to match that contract to keep Memo. No Bird rights on Rasheed, they would not have been $10+ million under the salary cap to give Rasheed the contract he got.

Thanks for trying.

[ChumpDumper]

If the Pistons matched the type of offer Memo got from Utah, they would have had to waive the Bird rights to RasheedOh yeah, my bad.

Spurs suck and are cheap.

[JamStone]

I'm not sure that most of those assertions are correct. The Spurs traded away the rights to John Salmons to acquire Speedy Claxton, who played a significant role in the 2003 championship.

The Barbosa transaction was a money decision, but it wasn't one made to avoid the luxury tax; it was a move designed to maintain room to make a pitch to Jason Kidd -- hardly a penny-pinching desire, even if not one that was ultimately fulfilled. Since the Spurs traded away the Barbosa pick to make a run at Kidd and since Josh Howard was selected immediately after Barbosa, citing to Howard fails for the same reason, I think. Each may have proven to be a dumb move, but neither was a decision made in an effort to avoid the luxury tax, as best I recall.

I'll give you that the Mahinmi over Lee decision is certainly closer to the contention that you make.



In the post-lockout era, I'm not sure that the Spurs have used too many late first round picks in that manner. They've dealt picks in some circumstances to acquire future assets -- the pick that became Barbosa, for instance -- but other than Mahinmi and Splitter (who was arguably the best player available when he was selected), the Spurs haven't done what you say:

2000 -- no #1
2001 -- Tony Parker
2002 -- John Salmons (traded for Claxton)
2003 -- Leandro Barbosa (traded to PNX)
2004 -- Beno Udrih
2005 -- Ian Mahinmi
2006 -- traded pick to NY for Nazr Mohammed
2007 -- Tiago Splitter


Good explanation. I didn't know that about Salmons. And, good point about Barbosa. I guess I looked at it differently not knowing all of those things.

[JamStone]

False. Bird Rights exist so teams can go over the cap to re-sign a player. Since you stipulate the Pistons had Bird Rights on Rasheed from the trade and they definitely had Bird Rights on Okur, they could have signed both.


If a team is under the cap and has Bird rights to an unrestricted free agent, and they end up using that cap space to sign another free agent first, they have to waive the Bird rights to that free agent first.

Had they signed Rasheed first using his Bird rights, they would not have been under the cap enough to match the deal Okur got from Utah.

[ChumpDumper]

Too late. I already edited.

[JamStone]

Except I quoted you.

[ChumpDumper]

And? I said my bad once I was reminded Okur was a second rounder.

I was wrong.

I apologize profusely.

I have never been more wrong in my life except for earlier tonight.

And this afternoon.

And yesterday.

You get the picture.

[smeagol]

And? I said my bad once I was reminded Okur was a second rounder.

I was wrong.

I apologize profusely.

I have never been more wrong in my life except for earlier tonight.

And this afternoon.

And yesterday.

You get the picture.
C'mon chump, you've been wrong many times.

May I remind you of a certain thread . . . three years ago . . . :spin

[wildchild]

Cuz, we don't like AmeriKKKans, and if you don't like that then get of the USA son.














j/k :lol


Your ironic is offensive. No more KKK :nope

[ChumpDumper]

C'mon chump, you've been wrong many times.

May I remind you of a certain thread . . . three years ago . . . :spinLink? Of course that thread is anything you want it to be. It has entered the realm of myth.

[E20]

LMAO I love Chumpdumpers signature response:

Link?

Chump you gotta copyright that and place it on a shirt: Link? Got Links? LMAO

[Reggie Miller]

Just My Opinion Deptartment:

International players do not come from the AAU or Nike camp environment. (Actually, there are now camps like this starting in parts of Europe, so look out.) I am convinced that Duncan would not be the great player he is today if he had spent his formative years being told he was going to be an NBA superstar. Whether true or not, the Spurs' management appears to think that international players are more coachable. Many of the international players come from a national team background or other environment more compatible with the Spurs' managment (many of whom have military backgrounds). International players seem to understand how they fit into a team system better than U.S. players, but there are many exceptions, obviously.

Many international players became professionals as soon as the law would allow them to be paid. My best guess is that a player who began playing professionally and travelling internationally at 16 is going to be more mature at 19 than a typical American college freshman leaving for the NBA.

The Spurs have a reputation for winning and for developing/facilitating international players. In other words, both sides (team and player) feel more comfortable than an organization that has never really had an impact international player. Many organizations may take an American player over a foreign player more reasons of marketing or "comfort." (Just as a random example, the Bobcats are loaded with UNC players. The Pacers will always take an IU or Purdue graduate, all else being equal.)

San Antonio has the reputation for doing just the opposite, but I am not sure how deserved it is. A lot of teams are doing the same sorts of things, with varying degrees of success for a long time. For many years, the Pacers led the way in this trend (Schrempf and Smits). The most well-known foreign player in the NBA doesn't even play for San Antonio (Yao Ming), for example. What would impress me, assuming I was an international player myself, is the fact that the Spurs have taken good players that were not obvious first-rounders (i.e. not "bigs") and facilitated their development in the league. Not too many teams can claim that.