Is Oberto the best big man in the L when it comes to moving without the ball?

[lefty]

I was just wondering...

[Brutalis]

Are you being funny or sarcastic?

He is a top 10-15 I'd say.

[pjjrfan]

I don't know about the league, but he sure does play off Tim the best since David.

[boutons_]

Let's hope the Fabricio of the playoffs doesn't disappear until next the 2008 playoffs.

I expect him to play with more confidence and aggression from now on because he's proved himself at the highest NBA level, a championship series.

[mavs>spurs2]

Let's hope the Fabricio of the playoffs doesn't disappear until next the 2008 playoffs.

I expect him to play with more confidence and aggression from now on because he's proved himself at the highest NBA level, a championship series.

Dude, he averaged 4 points and 4 rebounds per game in the finals. Not to mention his fg% and ft% dropped tremendously as opposed to the first 3 rounds.

I wouldn't exactly call that proving himself

[Slo spurs fan]

Please God, let the season begin as soon as posible.

[Fast Dunk]

I was just wondering...

Bwahahahahahahahaha

[Bruno]

I find that some people overrate Oberto after these playoffs. He has been very solid but he is still a very limited player :
- He isn't a good offensive player at all. What he does on the offensive end is kinda limited : screens, scoring when he is wide open and not breaking the flow of the offense.
- He is an average rebounder. He has some great fundamentals but he is short and can't jump.
- His defense is good but not great. He isn't a shot blocker and sometimes struggles against bigger and/or quicker players.

BTW, Oberto was a quite good offensive player in Europe and this quality hasn't translate at all in nba. We can think that this fact has been a factor in Spurs' choices made this summer.

[Martin R]

Oberto is more a piece of a jigsaw than a great artistic painting.
He's a guy who assembles to a machine to make it work better.

[Solid D]

Is Oberto the best big man in the L when it comes to moving without the ball? I was just wondering...

To respond to the question, I'd say Oberto is one of best in the NBA at moving without the ball. I think his experience and his sense of when open space is available due to traps or help is what makes him so adept. Certainly Dwight Howard and Amare Stoudamire are strong and quick and move well without the ball, so they are up there at the top. They are far superior athletes and scorers. I'd also put Carlos Boozer up there at the top in this category.

[ArgSpursFan]

Dude, he averaged 4 points and 4 rebounds per game in the finals. Not to mention his fg% and ft% dropped tremendously as opposed to the first 3 rounds.

I wouldn't exactly call that proving himself

Most of the things Fabricio does well in the court don´t show on the stats sheet(see:move well off the ball,drawing offensive fouls and tipping)

[diego]

- He isn't a good offensive player at all. What he does on the offensive end is kinda limited : screens, scoring when he is wide open and not breaking the flow of the offense.

BTW, Oberto was a quite good offensive player in Europe and this quality hasn't translate at all in nba. We can think that this fact has been a factor in Spurs' choices made this summer.

the opportunities oberto gets in the spurs O are totally different to the ones he got in europe, there is no comparison whatsoever. Im not arguing the spurs should be using oberto as a go-to guy because obviously we have better personnel to fill the scorer role but i dont think you can make a comparison like that at all- not to mention that when oberto was a go to guy he was more athletic whereas now he's older and playing against more athletic players. I remember in oberto's first season a lot of spurs fans complained pop wasn't using oberto to his strengths (facing him up for 15ft Js instead of trying to get him layups- and to his credit hes gotten better with that J). and even if oberto was a good offensive player in europe, he's never been on the level of scola in terms of offense (scola has more varied moves and is more prolific with them than oberto has ever been). so while i agree some people are still on the playoffs high (oberto will follow horry's example of hard work IMO), i think you cant make that comparison, nor speculate that it has any revelance to scola as they are different players in different stages of their careers.

[hater]

All I know is Oberto came through in the 4th quarter of the last game in the playoffs. Can we say the same about Rasho/Nazr/Elson??? hell no.

he is the most valuable center since DRob

[Solid D]

Include Timmy in that moving well without the ball group. :)

[ploto]

9 months ago some people on here were saying that Oberto was the worst starting center in the entire NBA

[wildchild]

I find that some people overrate Oberto after these playoffs. He has been very solid but he is still a very limited player :
- He isn't a good offensive player at all. What he does on the offensive end is kinda limited : screens, scoring when he is wide open and not breaking the flow of the offense.

Oberto isn't an opcion offensive with Tim in the paint, but he isn't going to be mad for that. He knows the role in the team, if Pop decide on him this season, he could get the ball more in O.


- He is an average rebounder. He has some great fundamentals but he is short and can't jump.

Tips not rebounds?. I must ask timvp or whorttt :lol


- His defense is good but not great. He isn't a shot blocker and sometimes struggles against bigger and/or quicker players.

Oberto plays well against bigger (Shaq, Z) and/or quicker players (Amare, Brand). He isn't a shot blocker but Oberto read so good the defense and he's in the right place defensive at the right time.


BTW, Oberto was a quite good offensive player in Europe and this quality hasn't translate at all in nba. We can think that this fact has been a factor in Spurs' choices made this summer.

Oberto was a post scorer in Spain, he's a star in Fiba bb. In the Spurs, he's a role player, no more. So, he adapted well in SA and he's happy with his role.

[wildchild]

Is Oberto the best big man in the L when it comes to moving without the ball?

ONE of the best. :clap

[Bruno]

the opportunities oberto gets in the spurs O are totally different to the ones he got in europe, there is no comparison whatsoever. Im not arguing the spurs should be using oberto as a go-to guy because obviously we have better personnel to fill the scorer role but i dont think you can make a comparison like that at all- not to mention that when oberto was a go to guy he was more athletic whereas now he's older and playing against more athletic players. I remember in oberto's first season a lot of spurs fans complained pop wasn't using oberto to his strengths (facing him up for 15ft Js instead of trying to get him layups- and to his credit hes gotten better with that J). and even if oberto was a good offensive player in europe, he's never been on the level of scola in terms of offense (scola has more varied moves and is more prolific with them than oberto has ever been). so while i agree some people are still on the playoffs high (oberto will follow horry's example of hard work IMO), i think you cant make that comparison, nor speculate that it has any revelance to scola as they are different players in different stages of their careers.

Oberto offensive game hasn't declined with years in Europe.

Why Oberto isn't doing the same thing on the offensive end in SA than in Spain ? Because of Duncan/Spurs system or because he can't do what he does in Spain against nba teams ? I think that it's the second reason, Oberto scored better when Duncan is on the floor that when he is on the bench.

Scola is, without a doubt, a better offensive player than Oberto but they share the same kind of offensive games. Oberto's offensive game hasn't translated at all in nba. It's not a good sign for Scola

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I don't know if I'd say he's the best at it, but he's probably the one with the highest BB IQ when it comes to moving without the ball. Or put another way, I think he'd be hands down the best if he were a little more athletic.

[ArgSpursFan]

Oberto in Erick Dumpier´s body would be the next Drob.

[The Franchise]

Oberto offensive game hasn't declined with years in Europe.

Why Oberto isn't doing the same thing on the offensive end in SA than in Spain ? Because of Duncan/Spurs system or because he can't do what he does in Spain against nba teams ? I think that it's the second reason, Oberto scored better when Duncan is on the floor that when he is on the bench.

Scola is, without a doubt, a better offensive player than Oberto but they share the same kind of offensive games. Oberto's offensive game hasn't translated at all in nba. It's not a good sign for Scola
Why does everything keep coming back to Scola? :wtf

[Solid D]

Eric Dampier is at his best when he's cheating.

:smokin

[Solid D]

Why does everything keep coming back to Scola? :wtf

Come back and ask this in about 6 months, if you haven't already gotten your answer.

[ArgSpursFan]

Eric Dampier is at his best when he's cheating.

:smokin

I know,but because he doesnt even have half of Oberto´s BBIQs.

[The Franchise]

He isn't the best but he is in the top 5. Most big men in the league these days are braindead so Oberto is in a select group with BBall IQ.

[diego]

Why Oberto isn't doing the same thing on the offensive end in SA than in Spain ? Because of Duncan/Spurs system or because he can't do what he does in Spain against nba teams ? I think that it's the second reason, Oberto scored better when Duncan is on the floor that when he is on the bench.

Scola is, without a doubt, a better offensive player than Oberto but they share the same kind of offensive games. Oberto's offensive game hasn't translated at all in nba. It's not a good sign for Scola

in spain oberto played as first option on 2nd tier teams. in the nba he plays as a role player on a contender. huge difference. everybody knows the spurs didnt sign him to be a NBA low post scorer. obviously oberto's stats are better with duncan on the floor, he takes pressure off of him. when duncan sits the offense goes through tp or manu, not oberto (or horry, elson, bonner, etc).

scola and oberto have similar offensive games? first time i heard that here. in fact i remember many people saying that is why oberto fits and scola doesnt. IMO oberto is a back to the basket player who has just now learned to make straight jumpshots. scola on the other hand is comfortable playing back to the basket and face up, is quick enough to drive with the ball (when is the last time you saw oberto dribble? :lol ), scola uses fakes, speed and footwork while oberto just has footwork and a little more size. i guess they are similar in that they both have good courtvision for passing (though oberto is the more willing passer). but i'm not seeing the similarity in their offensive playing style, nor in their phyiscal attributes. still, bottom line, scola has accomplished a lot more in europe in team success, individual awards and statlines than oberto (especially just taking into account offense and role on the team).

besides like i said, they are at different stages in their careers. scola is younger, going to a offensive-oriented team that wants to be a contender and has a huge hole at pf, while oberto went to the nba older and to a defensive minded team that was champion and has the best pf of all time. i dont see why scola's translation should be compared to oberto's, all they have in common is argentina and playing in spain. now, if scola went to the spurs, you could make some questions about the system, but since that isnt the case, we can only wait and see how the rockets try to use him and how he responds

[Spurs Brazil]

Oberto played very bad in regular season but the whole team weren't playing well

I think when the Spurs started to play better as a team Oberto also got better and he played great in the playoffs. He and TD play very well together on offensive

[Bruno]

scola and oberto have similar offensive games? first time i heard that here. in fact i remember many people saying that is why oberto fits and scola doesnt. IMO oberto is a back to the basket player who has just now learned to make straight jumpshots. scola on the other hand is comfortable playing back to the basket and face up, is quick enough to drive with the ball (when is the last time you saw oberto dribble? :lol ), scola uses fakes, speed and footwork while oberto just has footwork and a little more size.

Low post scoring and pick & roll are the two main weapons of Scola's offensive game. Oberto hasn't been able to translate his low post game in nba and if Scola can't too translate his low post game in nba, he will be a way less interesting player.

[urunobili]

All I know is Oberto came through in the 4th quarter of the last game in the playoffs. Can we say the same about Rasho/Nazr/Elson??? hell no.

he is the most valuable center since DRob

once that i read you posting in a positive mood let's add some suggga'.. remember the 11-11 22 point night vs/ PHX?
:santahat

[diego]

Oberto hasn't been able to translate his low post game in nba and if Scola can't too translate his low post game in nba, he will be a way less interesting player.

on that i agree, but i dont think oberto's "failure" to translate his low post game is relevant to scola's situation. i dont remember ever seeing oberto posted up in the low block for the spurs (and i hope they never do having better scoring options!). Then again, i get to see about 20 games a season so i could be wrong :p:

[ArgSpursFan]

you can´t compare 35 yrs old Oberto with 27 yrs old Scola.
Scola will play in the NBA in his Prime,while Oberto got to the NBA a litle too late,but still good enough to play alongside Duncan.

[wildchild]

you can´t compare 35 yrs old Oberto with 27 yrs old Scola.
Scola will play in the NBA in his Prime,while Oberto got to the NBA a litle too late,but still good enough to play alongside Duncan.

I agree. I don't know the guys insist. Why do they have to compare them?. Different players, different roles.
Why in the Oberto's thread we talking about Scola?
Only, Oberto 32 years old. Scola 27.

[ArgSpursFan]

I agree. I don't know the guys insist. Why do they have to compare them?. Different players, different roles.
Why in the Oberto's thread we talking about Scola?
Only, Oberto 32 years old. Scola 27.

I guess it´s just another pointless way to downplay both of them.
At the end of the day Argies keep winning NBA rings and qualifying to the Olympics with a B team.

[barbacoataco]

Oberto struggles with faster players, but the matchups last year against Utah and Cleveland worked well for him because they are not very fast teams. If the Spurs had faced Dallas last year I'm not sure how he would have fit in.

[thousandth]

I've watched Oberto on tape.In the World Championship 2002 Final, he looked awesome. 28 points 11 rebounds.Not only that.He took the yugos big men (Vlade Divac and Tomasevic) to school.I remember another one.Oberto had a pretty good game against Duncan in the Americas FIBA 2003.
It's a pity that he (Oberto in his youth) not came in to Spurs.
Having say that, I'll give props to present Oberto's play.Some say, "he's not athletic".Granted.Even so, I think Fab's a cerebral player, who still can get stops on defense and can score close on offense, when it really counts, in the last quarter.
Some also seem to be under the impresion that "he can't guard Dirk" or "he's slow". I think he played pretty well in the 2 (14p 4r) 3 (14p 6r) 4 (6p 6r) regular season games against Mavs (his stats by opponent vs Dallas 9p 6r 85 fg%), also he had not problems against fast team like Suns.
I don't see reason to be worried for Oberto's job in a playoff round against Mavs.

Sure, he's not he best without the ball, but he moves his feet well

[barbacoataco]

Oberto struggles defending faster players, and I'm not sure how quoting his offensive stats against Dallas has anything to do with it. Why do you think the Spurs keep Elson around? It is true that Oberto played good defense at times against Amare in the playoffs, and I'm not saying that he isn't a valuable player. Their just are some matchups that are not good for him. Bringing in Splitter will help in those situations.

[Reggie Miller]

A lot of good points here.

I'm not sure if I have ever seen anyone move without the ball as well as Oberto did in Game 4 of the 2007 Finals. (I may have, but I can't recall it at the moment.)

If I am "reading between the lines" correctly, I have gathered a few observation from taped interviews with Oberto. Fabricio came to the Spurs for two reasons: 1) He wanted to play with Duncan, whom he considers the best player in the world; and 2) His friendship with Ginobili. At any rate, Oberto seems to realize that his effectiveness is somewhat dependent on Duncan.

As I have mentioned before, I got a little disgusted with some of the ST posters who were down on Oberto last season. Spurs' fans sometimes forget that many (perhaps even most) NBA centers really aren't that hot at basketball. (As someone mentioned earlier, many NBA big men are "braindead" as well, and they spend most of their time camped out in one or two spots.) It took Oberto about a season to mesh with the team and league, but the results were worth it.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Dude, he averaged 4 points and 4 rebounds per game in the finals. Not to mention his fg% and ft% dropped tremendously as opposed to the first 3 rounds.

I wouldn't exactly call that proving himself

Games 1 and 2 the Spurs were kicking that ass so bad he didnt even have to do a god damn thing. Plus Parker just exploded in that series. Game 3, that entire team played like absolute shit. In game 4 tho Oberto played great. Oberto really fits that system nicely. He proved himself numerous times in the playoffs and hell even during the season at times. He steps it up in big games but it isnt going to show in stats. He was a critcal part of the Spurs success and easily the best center they have had since Drob and that is saying alot. He does everything the team needs from him.

[lefty]

Oberto struggles defending faster players, and I'm not sure how quoting his offensive stats against Dallas has anything to do with it. Why do you think the Spurs keep Elson around? It is true that Oberto played good defense at times against Amare in the playoffs, and I'm not saying that he isn't a valuable player. Their just are some matchups that are not good for him. Bringing in Splitter will help in those situations.

Well, it's important to have some variety; 2 different players, 2 different styles.

I think it's a good combo for Pop.

[lefty]

Games 1 and 2 the Spurs were kicking that ass so bad he didnt even have to do a god damn thing. Plus Parker just exploded in that series. Game 3, that entire team played like absolute shit. In game 4 tho Oberto played great. Oberto really fits that system nicely. He proved himself numerous times in the playoffs and hell even during the season at times. He steps it up in big
games but it isnt going to show in stats. He was a critcal part of the Spurs success and easily the best center they have had since Drob and that is saying alot. He does everything the team needs from him.

True

[lefty]

yes

[wildchild]

Well, it's important to have some variety; 2 different players, 2 different styles.

I think it's a good combo for Pop.

lefty, Scola/Oberto= different players, different roles, not Splitter.

Splitter is not more different than Oberto. He's a younger Oberto but probably not as good passing like Oberto or his move without ball, and without Oberto IQ in pressure games.
I didn't mean to kill Splitter.No.I think he's a good prospect for us.

[wildchild]

A lot of good points here.

I'm not sure if I have ever seen anyone move without the ball as well as Oberto did in Game 4 of the 2007 Finals. (I may have, but I can't recall it at the moment.)

If I am "reading between the lines" correctly, I have gathered a few observation from taped interviews with Oberto. Fabricio came to the Spurs for two reasons: 1) He wanted to play with Duncan, whom he considers the best player in the world; and 2) His friendship with Ginobili. At any rate, Oberto seems to realize that his effectiveness is somewhat dependent on Duncan.

As I have mentioned before, I got a little disgusted with some of the ST posters who were down on Oberto last season. Spurs' fans sometimes forget that many (perhaps even most) NBA centers really aren't that hot at basketball. (As someone mentioned earlier, many NBA big men are "braindead" as well, and they spend most of their time camped out in one or two spots.) It took Oberto about a season to mesh with the team and league, but the results were worth it.

to Reggie :clap yes, me again. I'm sleep-deprived. :cry

[lefty]

lefty, Scola/Oberto= different players, different roles, not Splitter.

Splitter is not more different than Oberto. He's a younger Oberto but probably not as good passing like Oberto or his move without ball, and without Oberto IQ in pressure games.
I didn't mean to kill Splitter.No.I think he's a good prospect for us.


Interesting point

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Oberto is certainly one of the best in the league at moving without the ball. He has the knack for slipping away from his man and finding open space around the basket, and not many players are good at that.

Someone commented on "tipping" vs "rebounding" - Oberto is an average rebounder, but he is great at tipping out to the perimeter where the ball almost always lands in the hands of one of the guards. He did it particularly well all playoffs, at times giving us 3 possessions to score with his hustle alone.

[lefty]

Oberto is certainly one of the best in the league at moving without the ball. He has the knack for slipping away from his man and finding open space around the basket, and not many players are good at that.

Someone commented on "tipping" vs "rebounding" - Oberto is an average rebounder, but he is great at tipping out to the perimeter where the ball almost always lands in the hands of one of the guards. He did it particularly well all playoffs, at times giving us 3 possessions to score with his hustle alone.

Yes, he's done that a lot this season :clap