Cowboys 2008 Draft [Archive] - SpursTalk.com Forums

mardigan

09-10-2007, 02:48 PM

My man, I like Barber to but lets not get too cocky here.
Who's cocky?
I saw a guy that wasnt even a fulltime back lead the NFC in td's.
I see a guy who is great picking up the blitz
I see a guy who can catch out of the backfield.
What he lacks in speed he makes up for in toughness and heart.
I guess we will see, but even after that first game, I think he looked better than maybe all of last year.
Plus, what side of the ball do the Boys need more help with?

monosylab1k

09-10-2007, 02:48 PM

Fuck that, Marion Barber at by the end of this year will prove to be a damn good number 1.
I would rather get Dorsey out of LSU
I really doubt Barber would be a great #1. He's best suited in his current role. Also, I just heard today that Barber was statistically the worst RB in the league at converting 3rd & 1 situations last season.

McFadden is the next LT. Pass on him at your own risk.

mardigan

09-10-2007, 02:50 PM

I really doubt Barber would be a great #1. He's best suited in his current role.

McFadden is the next LT. Pass on him at your own risk.
Well we really dont know that for sure, and the guy is def no Troy Hambrick.
If the Boys can drop 45, how much more help on offense do they need?

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 02:56 PM

I really doubt Barber would be a great #1. He's best suited in his current role. Also, I just heard today that Barber was statistically the worst RB in the league at converting 3rd & 1 situations last season.

McFadden is the next LT. Pass on him at your own risk.

Exactly. As much as I really like Barber this would be a no brainer to me.

monosylab1k

09-10-2007, 02:56 PM

Well we really dont know that for sure, and the guy is def no Troy Hambrick.
If the Boys can drop 45, how much more help on offense do they need?
Let's not forget just how terrible the Giants D is.

monosylab1k

09-10-2007, 02:57 PM

Exactly. As much as I really like Barber this would be a no brainer to me.
I think McFadden/Barber could be an even better duo than LT/Michael Turner.

mardigan

09-10-2007, 03:05 PM

Exactly. As much as I really like Barber this would be a no brainer to me.
All I know is that you can find runningbacks all over the draft, how many high number ones are starting in the league right now? I think McFadden will be good, but Dorsey is a sure thing, and the Boys have NO defensive tackle.

Whisky Dog

09-10-2007, 03:05 PM

I think McFadden/Barber could be an even better duo than LT/Michael Turner.

That would be sweeet as hell, and only made sweeter by actually having a safety who can cover someone and anything resembling a pass rush and a defense. Oh well, it's only week 1.

midgetonadonkey

09-10-2007, 03:09 PM

Have fun with your number 1 overall pick Cowboys fans. The team I used to follow is setting you up nicely for next year. The Browns suck fat dick and the sheep of Cleveland still support it by selling out every game. I finally hate this town and it's people.

There's nothing wrong with a city supporting their team no matter how bad they are.

(queue all Houston Texans jokes)

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 03:14 PM

All I know is that you can find runningbacks all over the draft, how many high number ones are starting in the league right now? I think McFadden will be good, but Dorsey is a sure thing, and the Boys have NO defensive tackle.

Well as you said my man we'll see how this all plays out.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 03:16 PM

There's nothing wrong with a city supporting their team no matter how bad they are.

(queue all Houston Texans jokes)

The Texans are not worthy of my ridicule.

jaespur21

09-10-2007, 03:57 PM

I really doubt Barber would be a great #1. He's best suited in his current role. Also, I just heard today that Barber was statistically the worst RB in the league at converting 3rd & 1 situations last season.

McFadden is the next LT. Pass on him at your own risk.

and when they showed that stat last night he followed it up by busting an amazing touchdown run to the outside and running THRU two defenders. Barber was awesome last night. JJ was okay

Thunder Dan

09-10-2007, 04:15 PM

There's nothing wrong with a city supporting their team no matter how bad they are.

(queue all Houston Texans jokes)

no see it's different in Cleveland. This city deserves all the jokes it gets because they support the god awful shit that is the Cleveland Browns. The Cavs made the Finals ( I know we go swept so save to comments) and nobody really gave a shit. The Tribe is a week away from clinching the Central, something that hasn't been done since 2001; but nobody even talks about the Indians. Every paper, every newscast, everything is about the fucking Browns- a team that has blown nuts since they came back in 1999. We have been rebuilding longer than most people play in the NFL (not a good sign of progressive rebuilding). I hate this city. The people of Cleveland are nothing but losers. They like losing like gamblers love it. They can't get away from it. Next week the stadium will be filled, people will forget the past and cheer the shit football team on the field. By the 3rd quarter the stadium will be half empty with only a few drunks and visiting fans still around to watch the scrap. The numbskulls in Cleveland can't grasp that as long as it sells out every week, the owner doesn't give 2 shits if they win or lose. That is why we have that fat terd as our coach. Oh they will fire him and make it look like they are doing something, but it will really just to please the fans for a year then the cycle continutes. I HATE CLEVELAND.

Thunder Dan

09-10-2007, 04:24 PM

to tell you how bad the Browns are here is an example: (as if you needed one) Throughout the 70's-90's the Browns and Steelers were bitter rivals. The fans hated eachother, and the teams hated eachother aswell. My stepdad, who played 13 years for the Browns, always speaks of how much he hated Pittsburgh. This was our rival. Now the Steelers don't even consider us a rival. The Browns have managed to fuck up their history by being a shitty football team. How is that possible? How is it possible I am sitting at a Browns game talking to Steelers fans that feel sorry for me and the Browns fan base. That is very much unrivallike. The Steelers now consider the Ravens and the Bengals their rival, while the Browns and their fans treat the game like an ex lover we can't let go of. We still try to hate them, but it's only hate because we have nothing else. The Browns should be sent to the CFL. They should sell the stadium and build Lebron a giant castle in it's place. He is all this city has and in a couple years when he leaves, this place will be nothing but a pile of shit with Damon Jones and Larry Hughes as our star basketballers.

jaespur21

09-10-2007, 05:24 PM

if they cowboys played that bad every year, i would go crazy thats for sure. thru the dave campo years i would cuss and yell @ the TV.

Mr.Bottomtooth

09-10-2007, 06:16 PM

It will all depend on how deep the draft will be. There will definitely not be another McFadden or Dorsey in the draft but if there are more RB's or DT's in the draft with big potential we will have a good draft. If the draft ends up sucking and we have to pick between the two, whichever way we decide to pick, it will be both very rewarding and somewhat dissappointing.

to21

09-10-2007, 06:27 PM

Imagine our backfield if we had pulled the trigger on Stephen Jackson.

scott

09-10-2007, 06:48 PM

Barber hasn't been a fulltime #1 back since HS... if McFadden is there, you take him. Haven't we learned from Mario Williams that you don't pass on gamechangers for solid D-lineman?

GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI

09-10-2007, 07:35 PM

Who is the best CB available next year?

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

09-10-2007, 08:13 PM

No corner is going to be worth a top 5 pick(WR DeSean Jackson?), but look for Justin King or Antoine Cason with the Cowboys own 1st rounder. King can flat out play and is said to be a burner.

peewee's lovechild

09-10-2007, 08:21 PM

if they cowboys played that bad every year, i would go crazy thats for sure. thru the dave campo years i would cuss and yell @ the TV.

Where the fuck were you in the 80s??

Shit, those were some hard times.

peewee's lovechild

09-10-2007, 08:22 PM

Jerry Jones has a hard on for McFadden.
I think we need a Safety or a Corner Back.

But, we've got two picks in the first round next year.
We HAVE TO IMPROVE on defense through the draft.

mardigan

09-10-2007, 09:34 PM

Barber hasn't been a fulltime #1 back since HS... if McFadden is there, you take him. Haven't we learned from Mario Williams that you don't pass on gamechangers for solid D-lineman?
Or Julius Peppers

Thunder Dan

09-10-2007, 09:37 PM

Who is the best CB available next year?

Antone Cason
some dude with a weird name for Wisconsin
Malcolm Jenkins if he comes out
Justin King

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 09:44 PM

Jerry Jones has a hard on for McFadden.
I think we need a Safety or a Corner Back.

But, we've got two picks in the first round next year.
We HAVE TO IMPROVE on defense through the draft.

You never EVER draft a cornerback or safety in the top 10. The Cowboys have already made that mistake and are they any better on defense? If the front seven isn't getting any pressure on the QB then it's not going to matter who's back in the secondary. I say draft another pass rusher if they don't want McFadden.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

09-10-2007, 09:48 PM

It's never draft a S in the top 10. Champ Bailey and Deion Sanders beg to differ about CBs, though.

Thunder Dan

09-10-2007, 09:48 PM

You never EVER draft a cornerback or safety in the top 10. The Cowboys have already made that mistake and are they any better on defense? If the front seven isn't getting any pressure on the QB then it's not going to matter who's back in the secondary. I say draft another pass rusher if they don't want McFadden.

Champ Bailey is one of the best players in the league drafted 7th overall. I would include him in the top 10 players in the NFL. Shawn Springs wasn't bad either, drafted at 3 overall

scott

09-10-2007, 09:53 PM

Or Julius Peppers

I guess I missed who the can't miss, game changing offensive player in that draft was.

scott

09-10-2007, 09:55 PM

You never EVER draft a cornerback or safety in the top 10. The Cowboys have already made that mistake and are they any better on defense? If the front seven isn't getting any pressure on the QB then it's not going to matter who's back in the secondary. I say draft another pass rusher if they don't want McFadden.

Terrence Newman is one of the top 3 CBs in the NFL, and as you saw yesterday is pretty much the staple of our defense. I'd agree about S, however.

How many consecutive 1st round picks do you want us to use on this "pass rusher"?

Thunder Dan

09-10-2007, 09:57 PM

Terrence Newman is one of the top 3 CBs in the NFL, and as you saw yesterday is pretty much the staple of our defense. I'd agree about S, however.

How many consecutive 1st round picks do you want us to use on this "pass rusher"?

Ronnie Lott #8 overall. Best safety ever

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 09:57 PM

Champ Bailey is one of the best players in the league drafted 7th overall. I would include him in the top 10 players in the NFL. Shawn Springs wasn't bad either, drafted at 3 overall

Champ Bailey and Deion Sanders can be opposite each other and it would not matter if the front seven wasn't getting to the QB. If a QB has all day to throw the ball it is not going to matter who is covering the recievers be it Champ Bailey or Derek Ross. It all starts with the front seven.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

09-10-2007, 09:58 PM

Terence Newman is not a top 3 CB.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 09:59 PM

scott

09-10-2007, 10:01 PM

Terrence Newman was perfectly healthy last year and did that do the defense any good?

It did the defense a lot of good as far as throwing towards Newman's side is concerned.

Obviously it takes the total package. You have to have a good secondary and a good rush to stop the pass. We've spent the last 839483290423 years drafting guys to rush the passer, but only have one good player in the scondary (Newman).

scott

09-10-2007, 10:04 PM

Terence Newman is not a top 3 CB.

A lot of "experts" disagree with you. Obviously Champ is #1, after that there are a number of guys, and a lot of times Newman is named shortly after. Simple fact: teams don't throw at Newman, and when he's out we make Eli look like the lovechild of Joe Montana and Dan Marino.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 10:06 PM

It did the defense a lot of good as far as throwing towards Newman's side is concerned.

Obviously it takes the total package. You have to have a good secondary and a good rush to stop the pass. We've spent the last 839483290423 years drafting guys to rush the passer, but only have one good player in the scondary (Newman).

It is much easier avoiding a good defensive back as opposed to avoiding a good pass rush.
Besides, how many good pass rushers do the Cowboys have besides Ware.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 10:08 PM

A lot of "experts" disagree with you. Obviously Champ is #1, after that there are a number of guys, and a lot of times Newman is named shortly after. Simple fact: teams don't throw at Newman, and when he's out we make Eli look like the lovechild of Joe Montana and Dan Marino.

From what I remember Eli has ofter had good games against the Cowboys whether Newman is in the game or not.

samikeyp

09-10-2007, 10:09 PM

Derek Ross.

A Derek Ross reference....well done!

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 10:10 PM

Ronnie Lott #8 overall. Best safety ever

Who would you rather have, Ronnie Lott or Charles Haley?

scott

09-10-2007, 10:11 PM

It is much easier avoiding a good defensive back as opposed to avoiding a good pass rush.
Besides, how many good pass rushers do the Cowboys have besides Ware.

Look, I don't disagree how important it is to have a good passrusher, but I disagree that taking a top CB with a top 10 pick isn't something you "never ever" do. Quite a few top 10 CBs seem to be working out quite well.

The Cowboys just drafted Anthony Spencer to be that edge rusher opposite of Ware in the exact same position they drafted Bobby Carpenter to originally play, and drafted Kevin Burnett to play a few years earlier. Are we just going to keep drafting guys at the same position until one of them looks like Lawrence Taylor as a rookie?

A defensive end, you can make a case for since the next time Marcus Spears makes a play will be the first time. Jason Hatcher is supposed to be one of those rush guys. What top flight pass rush prospect do you see out there in next year's draft? I see about as many as I see CBs worth a top 10 pick right now... none. But I'm sure one will emerge at both positions. Hopefully it won't matter when we take McFadden.

scott

09-10-2007, 10:14 PM

Who would you rather have, Ronnie Lott or Charles Haley?

So your argument is that so long as we have Charles Haley, Lawrence Taylor and Deacon Jones in our front 7, we can get by with Derek Ross, Dwayne Goodrich and Karim Lattimore in the secondary. Great to know since top 10 pass rushers aways become those guys.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 10:17 PM

Look, I don't disagree how important it is to have a good passrusher, but I disagree that taking a top CB with a top 10 pick isn't something you "never ever" do. Quite a few top 10 CBs seem to be working out quite well.

The Cowboys just drafted Anthony Spencer to be that edge rusher opposite of Ware in the exact same position they drafted Bobby Carpenter to originally play, and drafted Kevin Burnett to play a few years earlier. Are we just going to keep drafting guys at the same position until one of them looks like Lawrence Taylor as a rookie?

A defensive end, you can make a case for since the next time Marcus Spears makes a play will be the first time. Jason Hatcher is supposed to be one of those rush guys. What top flight pass rush prospect do you see out there in next year's draft? I see about as many as I see CBs worth a top 10 pick right now... none. But I'm sure one will emerge at both positions. Hopefully it won't matter when we take McFadden.

The only way I could even entertain the thought of drafting a CB in the top ten is if the draft prospects of pass rushers are so pitiful that you almost have no other option, and even then I probably still wouldn't do it. Or we have two top ten picks. I'm with you all the way on the Cowboys taking McFadden.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 10:20 PM

A Derek Ross reference....well done!

Derek ross :ihit

:bang

:pctoss

scott

09-10-2007, 10:22 PM

The only way I could even entertain the thought of drafting a CB in the top ten is if the draft prospects of pass rushers are so pitiful that you almost have no other option, and even then I probably still wouldn't do it. Or we have two top ten picks. I'm with you all the way on the Cowboys taking McFadden.

Well I'm glad we abandoned your line of draft thinking that led us to draft the likes of Eb Ekuban in the past.

TLWisfoine

09-10-2007, 10:27 PM

Well I'm glad we abandoned your line of draft thinking that led us to draft the likes of Eb Ekuban in the past.

Jerry Jones needs to be flogged for that one.

jaespur21

09-10-2007, 10:27 PM

Our Defense would have to continue playin as we did this past game, which i dont see happening, in order for me to agree with a Defense draft 1st round pick

scott

09-10-2007, 10:31 PM

Our Defense would have to continue playin as we did this past game, which i dont see happening, in order for me to agree with a Defense draft 1st round pick

If we end up somewhere at pick #4 and McFadden is off the board, I'd say Dorsey is the pick (if available) and go WR or RB with our own 1st rounder.

Limas Sweed and Malcom Kelly are last 1st round WR prospects I like.

King

09-10-2007, 10:34 PM

I don't care if we have LT at running back. If McFadden is on the board when you pick, you take him. You don't draft for need in the first round. You take the best player on the board, and solve the position logjam or holes later.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

09-10-2007, 10:43 PM

King

09-10-2007, 11:09 PM

I didn't know Matt Millen was a part of this board.

Go figure.

I said take the best player - not take a wide receiver, regardless.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

09-10-2007, 11:11 PM

So if Romo has a stellar season, you'd still take Brohm, assuming he's there?

mardigan

09-10-2007, 11:15 PM

I guess I missed who the can't miss, game changing offensive player in that draft was.
And I guess I missed who the cant miss prospect was in Mario's draft

scott

09-10-2007, 11:16 PM

And I guess I missed who the cant miss prospect was in Mario's draft

Maybe you've heard of Reggie Bush and Vince Young?

mardigan

09-10-2007, 11:19 PM

Maybe you've heard of Reggie Bush and Vince Young?
:lol
Yea, I heard of them, a 10 carry runningback and a qb who is about as inaccurate as they come, niether still have really proven anything.
I'll wait and see what Mario ends up doing this year before I pass judgment on the pick. If he ends up with 10 plus sacks I dont think the Texans will be regretting the pick.And Bush might not even be the third or fouth best back in that draft

scott

09-10-2007, 11:21 PM

:lol
Yea, I heard of them, a 10 carry runningback and a qb who is about as inaccurate as they come, niether still have really proven anything.
I'll wait and see what Mario ends up doing this year before I pass judgment on the pick. If he ends up with 10 plus sacks I dont think the Texans will be regretting the pick.

I don't think Reggie and Vince are that great either... but trust me, the Texans are already regretting it. Especially when ticket sales and merchandising numbers come in. Another great example is how Houston games aren't shown in Austin because they are pre-empted by Titans games. When you can't carry a city a mere 250 miles away, that is just sad.

But on the field, the Texans are likely regretting it to. Obviously, the right situation matters a lot, and I think Reggie or Vince wouldn't have done much in Houston, but both would have at least brought excitment to the team, which is an intangable that DOES matter.

King

09-10-2007, 11:21 PM

So if Romo has a stellar season, you'd still take Brohm, assuming he's there?

If Brohm is far and away the best player on the board at that time - especially with Brad Johnson the current backup. The most talented players will find the field.

If it gets to a point where players are rated closely, or even - sure go with whatever fills what you need. But, don't pass up on McFadden because you need a pass rusher.

While Mario Williams may turn out great - he's not going to have the impact Reggie Bush has.

scott

09-10-2007, 11:25 PM

If Brohm is far and away the best player on the board at that time - especially with Brad Johnson the current backup. The most talented players will find the field.

If it gets to a point where players are rated closely, or even - sure go with whatever fills what you need. But, don't pass up on McFadden because you need a pass rusher.

While Mario Williams may turn out great - he's not going to have the impact Reggie Bush has.

There are a few positions where the "best player" theory just doesn't hold water. If you have LT, you don't take McFadden. If you have Peyton Manning, you don't take Brian Brohm or any other QB. You trade the pick and get value.

I'm sure the Chargers would rather have Drew Brees any of the other non-QB top 10 picks in that draft than Phillip Rivers (okay, maybe not Reggie Williams).

Hmmmm... maybe you can justify a running back... because I could see having LT and drafting Peterson last year... but you better have an offensive coordinator who can find a way to use them both for 25 touches a game.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

09-10-2007, 11:25 PM

So, essentially King, you're saying not to reach for a need and I agree with that. Ideally, the team would trade down but that never seems to be easy in the top 5.

mardigan

09-10-2007, 11:26 PM

If Brohm is far and away the best player on the board at that time - especially with Brad Johnson the current backup. The most talented players will find the field.

If it gets to a point where players are rated closely, or even - sure go with whatever fills what you need. But, don't pass up on McFadden because you need a pass rusher.

While Mario Williams may turn out great - he's not going to have the impact Reggie Bush has.
Maybe, just because he is an offensive guy, but Bush might also turn out to be just a change of pace back that will never be able to run through the tackles or carry the ball 20 times a game.
And I dont think anyone would be reaching taking Dorsey wherever he goes, that guy is a sure thing and a game changer. He will make an impact immediately

King

09-10-2007, 11:30 PM

Right - I completely agree with the trading down to acquire more. I would have been find with Brady Quinn last year, but I like Cleveland's number one this year better.

And yeah, I'm saying don't reach for need. If Dorsey and McFadden are ranked the same on a team's board - go with whichever you need more. But, if McFadden is the far and away top rated player - but you need a pass rush, so you go with Dorsey - that's when teams run into trouble.

And I'm just using those names as examples.

Whisky Dog

09-11-2007, 12:00 AM

I've always thought that if you have a young QB that you just signed to a big money extension (which is what Romo will be if he plays well) you don't draft a QB with the 1st round pick and basically have to pay huge money for a backup QB. That's too much against the cap for one position, and you are basically putting yourself in a position to lose one of the QB's in a couple of years. I think you look to see if there is a stud skill position player that stands out from the pack, like Peterson this year, or else try to trade down for a few additional high round picks.

I think the Cowboys defense will be pretty good once Newman and Ellis return and everyone gets used to playing in the new scheme. I don't think it'll be the best in the NFL, but should be top 10 overall.