R.C. Buford Does it Again -- Marcus Williams

[biba]

R.C. Buford Does it Again
By ClipperSteve
Posted on Wed Sep 12, 2007 at 09:49:08 AM PDT
http://www.clipsnation.com/story/2007/9/12/12498/5090

I was poking around, looking for historical perspective on the Yaroslav Korolev draft pick (coming soon, but let's just say it was bad, if not unprecedented) and I came across this recent development in the NBA:

In the 2006 Draft, coming off a 63 win season and needing essentially nothing in the draft, the San Antonio Spurs traded their second round pick, 59th out of 60 mind you, to Milwaukee for the Bucks 2007 second round pick.

OK, let that sink in a little. The Spurs. Pretty much always one of the best records in the league. The Bucks. Around .500 or below for several years. So based on historical precedent, the Bucks were probably trading down about 15 spots to get the Spurs pick a season early. Oh, and the 2007 draft, coming after the first 'Just say No to 18 year olds' draft, would include most of the guys that WOULD have gone first in 2006 (like Oden and Durant) making it significantly deeper. Furthermore, it's the 59th pick. Keep your mouth shut, keep your fingers crossed, and maybe those last two teams drafting don't pick your guy, and you can sign him as a rookie free agent.

But no, the Bucks really wanted Damir Markota, and they pulled the trigger on this swap of second rounders. Their bad luck, they get hit with a ton of injuries and end up with the third worst record in the league, while the Spurs win another title without the services of Mr. Markota. And the Spurs get the 33rd pick in the draft to add to their ring-laden squad (Marcus Williams of Arizona). (Although the Clippers have not done a good job of capitalizing, early second rounders are pure gold in salary-cap land - the talent of late first rounders, without the guaranteed contracts.)

But wait, it gets better. Last week the Bucks waived Markota, one year into a three year deal (probably not guaranteed). And Markota's reputation as a party animal probably had something to do with it.

Is RC Buford that much smarter than every other GM in the league? Is he just lucky? Or did he sell his soul to the devil? You tell me.

-------------
Oh... That FO which trades GOLD for NOTHING? :elephant :elephant :elephant

[SRJ]

No, this can't be right - I'm realiably assured by several posters that we have terrible personnel running the team. I expect a retraction from Clips Nation very shortly.

[Kamnik]

RC and Pop make mistakes.... like everyone does.

But apart from that they are by far the best GM/coach combo in the league. (inside the limited budget they have-so not everyone comes in flying in with Scola trade thoughts)

:toast

[ploto]

Sorry- but that article is stupid. People who discuss players that a team drafted for another team and had NO intention of holding onto for themselves are ill informed.

And you might want to wait to see if Williams ever does anything before you celebrate that pick.

[timvp]

Turned out to be a rather nice trade ... except for the part about drafting Marcus Williams. Williams played so bad in summer league I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Spurs just cut ties with him before training camp.

[Kamnik]

And you might want to wait to see if Williams ever does anything before you celebrate that pick.

Markota would never every even a bench player in the NBA.

And they get a 33rd pick for that....

What here seems like a bad deal to you?

[2centsworth]

You can't tell me Marcus Williams is the best they could have done at 33? So you're telling me they gave up a 59th pick to pick someone who was worth a 59th pick at 33. That's fantastic.

[timvp]

Sorry- but that article is stupid. People who discuss players that a team drafted for another team and had NO intention of holding onto for themselves are ill informed.

And you might want to wait to see if Williams ever does anything before you celebrate that pick.Well, this trade was at least better than signing a one-dimensional shooter to five times his market value.

[T Park]

rut roh......

[G-Nob]

Tiago will be the steal of this draft, not Marcus.

[ploto]

Markota would never every even a bench player in the NBA.

And they get a 33rd pick for that....

What here seems like a bad deal to you?
The trade is not a bad deal- what they did with the draft pick they got is, and that also impacts the evaluation of RC's performance. Probably, Sam made that trade but RC made that pick. :stirpot:

[ChumpDumper]

Always room for bitter conjecture.

[incansables]

Tiago will be the steal of this draft, not Marcus.
yep

[SenorSpur]

If Marcus Williams doesn't make the team, then it's a wash.

[T Park]

if marcus williams plays for the toros and improves, does it make any better

[Bruno]

The Markota and the Printezis are both steals.

Spurs have traded a very late second round pick for an unprotected second round pick of teams that aren't locks to be a top team.

Trading the 59th pick for the 33rd is a steal.
The Printezis trade will be something like 59th pick for a pick likely between 40th and 50th, it's a great trade.

I'm quite amazed that Spurs are able to find a dumb GM each year to do these kind of trades.

[barbacoataco]

It was a great trade in theory. But like the others said, if Williams gets cut and never plays for the Spurs it doesn't really matter.

A better example to me of the Spurs FO wisdom was letting Nazr go when he wanted more money, and using Oberto/Elson to fill the same role for less money. Many teams would have given Nazr a big multi-year deal and been stuck with him.

[Das Texan]

Ya it really was a great trade until we let Lute Olsen sell us on Williams.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The trade for the pick was great, but as great as that was, the Spurs were on the other end of the spectrum - horrible - when you look at what they did with it.

[Bruno]

Marcus Williams will be a very good nba player.

[timvp]

I am on drugs.

[timvp]

For the record, I hope Bruno can bump this thread eight years from now.











Hello to those reading this in 2015. :smokin

(Just in case.)

[Bruno]

:lol
You will see.

[timvp]

Marcus Williams looks like the second coming of Henry Williams right about now.

[Darkwaters]

Marcus Williams will be a very good nba player.

I assume you mean the Marcus Williams playing for the Nets and not that bump on a log the Spurs drafted last year.

[T Park]

Lute Olsen usually isn't wrong about players.

I wouldn't give up on the kid after a bad showing in summer league.

[Bruno]

I assume you mean the Marcus Williams playing for the Nets and not that bump on a log the Spurs drafted last year.

Williams >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Byars.



http://wc.arizona.edu/papers/98/251/mhoops/2.jpg


:elephant

[timvp]

^^ That's the same face I make when I watch Marcus Williams shoot the ball.

[inconvertible]

scola

[Ariel]

Marcus Williams will be a very good nba player.
I really want to take your word for it, and I refuse to believe the FO would have used a relatively high (very low 2nd rounder in a deep draft) pick on someone as bad as some are making him out to be. But first, I'd like to know: how regularly have you watched him play? I was wondering, because I found troubling that most those who have watched him on a regular basis don't seem to like him too much.

[T Park]

^^ That's the same face I make when I watch Marcus Williams shoot the ball.

It was also hideous to watch Bruce Bowen shoot when he first came.

The kids 20, and he doesn't deserve at least a couple years work?

[TheAuthority]

No, he's not good or lucky. He's a moron and he has Tim Duncan. He trades away players like Scola with LITERALLY NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT IN RETURN other than cap space. Not only that, he trades them to division rivals who need the position he plays at. Are we looking at the next Tim Donaughy? Possibly...

[timvp]

For the record, I hope Bruno can bump this thread eight years from now.











Hello to those reading this in 2015. :smokin

(Just in case.)Well, it's 2008 and I think we are reaching the end of the Marcus Williams line. After three games on the Los Angeles Clippers summer league team, Williams is shooting 7%. Seven percent. Siete persentados.

He's turning out worse than I thought and I thought he was the worst player I've ever seen on a Spurs summer league team. Amazing.

I just hope that the Spurs used different scouts this year.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, it's 2008 and I think we are reaching the end of the Marcus Williams line. After three games on the Los Angeles Clippers summer league team, Williams is shooting 7%. Seven percent. Siete persentados.

He's turning out worse than I thought and I thought he was the worst player I've ever seen on a Spurs summer league team. Amazing.

I just hope that the Spurs used different scouts this year.

You remind me of Red Sox fans. The team can win 100 games and the World Series but Red Sox fans think they know better than the manager and GM.

Oh he didn't pinch hit for Varitek in the 8th or the FO dropped Bucholz to the minors at the end of the season.

You realize that your patting yourself on the back because of a second round pick not working out? Thats like patting yourself on the back because someone doesnt hit the jackpot on the slots and you called it.

[timvp]

You remind me of Red Sox fans. The team can win 100 games and the World Series but Red Sox fans think they know better than the manager and GM.

Oh he didn't pinch hit for Varitek in the 8th or the FO dropped Bucholz to the minors at the end of the season.

You realize that your patting yourself on the back because of a second round pick not working out? Thats like patting yourself on the back because someone doesnt hit the jackpot on the slots and you called it.:lol

I'm guessing you haven't kept up. I was fine with the draft pick of Marcus Williams at the time. I thought it was a decent enough gamble. I also fully agreed with the Spurs waiving Williams because he sucked. In fact, I was wishing they would waive him because the gamble obviously was a losing proposition.

My only arguments with people last year were with posters who were saying that the Spurs made a huge mistake in drafting Williams and the posters who disagreed with waiving him. My stance is that the Spurs front office was justified in both picking him and waiving him.

By agreeing with what the front office did in both regards, how exactly am I acting like Red Sox fan? Thanks in advance.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He's turning out worse than I thought and I thought he was the worst player I've ever seen on a Spurs summer league team. Amazing.

I just hope that the Spurs used different scouts this year.

I mean you could see that he was awful the first time you saw him. I guess you could scout for them or something because obviously they hadn't done their homework properly and it was just so obvious to you.

[timvp]

I mean you could see that he was awful the first time you saw him. I guess you could scout for them or something because obviously they hadn't done their homework properly and it was just so obvious to you.What part of I agreed with the gamble when the Spurs selected him did you not read? He played power forward in college. The Spurs gambled he could transition to small forward in the NBA. It didn't work out.

It was obvious to me he sucked right away after making the transition -- just like it was obvious to the Spurs right away that he sucked after making the transition. It just wasn't obvious to other posters in here who thought they knew more than the Spurs FO concerning whether or not Williams should be waived.

And yeah, I hope the Spurs did use different scouts this time. And it sounds like they did.

[Mr. Body]

In retrospect, it will be the 2007 offseason that killed the Spurs. If not killed them, at least sent them into a long and slow lingering death. That's the year they absolutely needed to bring in fresh talent but wound up with a big NIL from their two draft picks and then wound up trading away their excellent asset of Luis Scola for nothing. True, it's not their fault Splitter never came over, but the Williams pick was deeply questionable at the time, and all the offseason brought on was Ime Udoka.

[tp2021]

Ah, complaining again, I see.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

If Marcus Williams doesn't make the team, then it's a wash.

Have to agree with that.

Basically, RC robbed the Bucks then threw away the stealin's!

(oh, and the apostrophe is for the missing "g")

(and yes, I could have just said "proceeds", but I was feeling creative)

(I'm going away now)

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

No, he's not good or lucky. He's a moron and he has Tim Duncan. He trades away players like Scola with LITERALLY NOTHING TO SHOW FOR IT IN RETURN other than cap space. Not only that, he trades them to division rivals who need the position he plays at. Are we looking at the next Tim Donaughy? Possibly...

Authority!? Ha! RC put together the teams that won 3 rings... yeah, he's totally shit. :rolleyes

The Scola trade was about lux tax money, blame the owners. RC wouldn't have made that trade if he hadn't been told to by the ownership group.

As for the comparison with a CHEATING REFEREE, where do you get off saying shit like that???

Moron.

[Obstructed_View]

Thread necrophilia, I wonder who's wandering the morgue...

[mrspurs]

nothing but luck...since we outlasted the celts, and won duncan the spurs have been blessed with luck......one lucky pick over another(not saying our FO doesnt work their behinds over looking around, after all thats what they get paid todo)...now that our luck has run out, our FO is doing pretty much what holt wants....build the finest,,most durable building in the city, with the cheapest hardworking players you can find....holt and his drinking buddies do a pretty good job....but luck has alot todo with it