VY and Leinart fans.......

[johnsmith]

Cutler is winning:


Young, Leinart have company
By Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writer
Article Last Updated: 09/12/2007 12:02:32 AM MDT


Jay Cutler was selected 11th overall in the 2006 NFL draft. (Post file)The Larry Bird and Magic Johnson of the new generation have some competition.

During the offseason, Tennessee Titans quarterback Vince Young was quoted as saying he and Arizona Cardinals quarterback Matt Leinart wanted to be known as this generation's Magic and Bird.

One of Leinart's representatives, Chuck Price, also was recently quoted as using the comparison. But Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler may be butting his head between the much-hyped twosome.

In the 2006 draft, Young was selected third overall, Leinart 10th and Cutler 11th. All three will be linked together for the rest of their NFL careers and forever compared.

Cutler has made six starts for the Broncos. Compared with Young's and
Leinart's first six starts of their careers, Cutler has more wins, yards passing and touchdown passes and fewer interceptions.
Cutler also had a better 2007 debut than Young or Leinart.

Young, also a dynamic runner, went 2-4 in his first six games. He was 72-of-151 passing for 840 yards, with four touchdown passes and seven interceptions.

Leinart was 1-5, going 112-of-211 passing for 1,294 yards. He threw six touchdown passes and seven interceptions.

Cutler is 3-3, having completed 104-of-176 passes for 1,305 yards. He has 10 touchdown passes and six interceptions.

Cutler established himself by engineering a game-winning drive Sunday at Buffalo. The Broncos beat the Bills 15-14 on a last-second field goal by Jason Elam.

"It's my job to stay poised and in control. That's what quarterbacks are supposed to do," Cutler said. "That's why we get paid the big bucks, to make third downs and make two-minute drives. Bronco fans know the situation well from John Elway doing it for all those years."

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_6866339

[fyatuk]

That's about how anyone thought the numbers would look. Besides the fact that that happens to be in the same order of "who watched the longest", Cutler was known as a gunslinger, Leinart a passer, and Young as a scrambler, so logically the passing stats should be Cutler-Leinart-Young (except interceptions, which logically would be Leinart-Cutler-Young, so Cutler being up by one is a small suprise there).

Of course, see if Cutler keeps up with the winning. Since that 2-4 start, Young is 7-1...

[ducks]

culter got lucky to get the field goal off on time

[samikeyp]

Its all about right now and who is winning this season. Nothing else matters.

Right now:
Cutler and Young: 1-0
Leinart: 0-1

[johnsmith]

That's about how anyone thought the numbers would look. Besides the fact that that happens to be in the same order of "who watched the longest", Cutler was known as a gunslinger, Leinart a passer, and Young as a scrambler, so logically the passing stats should be Cutler-Leinart-Young (except interceptions, which logically would be Leinart-Cutler-Young, so Cutler being up by one is a small suprise there).

Of course, see if Cutler keeps up with the winning. Since that 2-4 start, Young is 7-1...


Good point on the 7-1 thing.

[TxJudsonRocketTx]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Broncos already kicking ass before Cutler took over? I think the Titans were like 0-4 or some shit when Vince got in and the Cards were pretty bad last year too. Throw Vince or Leinart in Denver last year and I'm sure their numbers would look better, I'd venture to say Denver would've made the playoffs if Vince was their QB last year

[johnsmith]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Broncos already kicking ass before Cutler took over? I think the Titans were like 0-4 or some shit when Vince got in and the Cards were pretty bad last year too. Throw Vince or Leinart in Denver last year and I'm sure their numbers would look better, I'd venture to say Denver would've made the playoffs if Vince was their QB last year


Would he have been playing defense too?

[fyatuk]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Broncos already kicking ass before Cutler took over? I think the Titans were like 0-4 or some shit when Vince got in and the Cards were pretty bad last year too. Throw Vince or Leinart in Denver last year and I'm sure their numbers would look better, I'd venture to say Denver would've made the playoffs if Vince was their QB last year

0-3. He went 8-5 as a starter and they finished 8-8. He played in 2 of the 3 opening losses as well though.

The Broncos were 7-4 when Cutler took over and finished 9-7

The Cards were 1-3 when Leinart took over and finished 5-11. Leinart took over in the 4th of the Cardinals 4rd loss.

[TheTruth]

Leinart looked terrible throwing the ball Monday night. His throws weren't even close to the WR's (Alex Smith looked even worse). VY will never put up "great" passing numbers. But he'll always be a winner before anything else. He'll find a way.

As a Bronco fan, I can honestly say that I wouldn't trade Cutler straight up for either of those guys. Leinart isn't anywhere near athletic enough to run the Broncos offense. Cutler throws on the run about as well as anyone in the league right now. He just has a cannon. VY is most definitely athletic enough to run the Broncos offense, but I just don't like his throwing style.

Cutler is a future superstar. Write that down in pen.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Cutler is a future superstar. Write that down in pen.:lol

[fyatuk]

Cutler is a future superstar. Write that down in pen.

So far Cutler has indeed been extremely impressive. He's been more accurate than just about anyone expected, which has resulted in a higher completion percentage and lower interceptions. He's definitely better than Leinart right now (although in all fairness, look at the O-line Matty has had to work with), and has much more room to grow IMO. I'm not sure I'd go with future superstar, but star certainly.

[TheTruth]

:lol
Phillip Rivers looked good on Sunday with those 8 men in the box.

[TheTruth]

So far Cutler has indeed been extremely impressive. He's been more accurate than just about anyone expected, which has resulted in a higher completion percentage and lower interceptions. He's definitely better than Leinart right now (although in all fairness, look at the O-line Matty has had to work with), and has much more room to grow IMO. I'm not sure I'd go with future superstar, but star certainly.
Man, you must not watch many Broncos games. The Broncos Oline is overrated when it comes to pass protection. They have been for years. Cutler made things happen with his feet, something that Leinart will never be able to do.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Phillip Rivers looked good on Sunday with those 8 men in the box.Phillip Rivers was playing against the #1 defense. Cutler was playing against the lowly Bills.

[TheTruth]

Philip Rivers played against a team that put 8 MEN IN THE BOX. He had the protection, he didn't make the throws.

[TheTruth]

3 DB's in Coverage. 3!!!!!

[T Park]

Jay Cutler will be a star. Along the lines of Dan Marino.

Phillip Rivers will be a good QB. Along the lines of a Warren Moon.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Philip Rivers played against a team that put 8 MEN IN THE BOX. He had the protection, he didn't make the throws.He had protection? He was sacked 3 times and hurried many times. The Bears entire defense is pretty much ProBowl quality, including those 3 db's you mentioned.

I just find it funny that you've annointed Cutler future superstar after barely squeaking past the Bills.

[TheTruth]

Fuck Dan Marino. Cutler's gonna win Super Bowls. Warren Moon is way too high a ceiling for Phillip Rivers. I'm thinking more along the lines of a Trent Green. Maybe.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Jay Cutler will be a star. Along the lines of Dan Marino.

Phillip Rivers will be a good QB. Along the lines of a Warren Moon.What are you basing this on?

College careers? Rivers>>>>Cutler
Pro careers? Rivers>>>>Cutler

[TheSanityAnnex]

When Manning and Brady go on the decline, Rivers will be the best QB in the league.

[TheTruth]

He had protection? He was sacked 3 times and hurried many times. The Bears entire defense is pretty much ProBowl quality, including those 3 db's you mentioned.

I just find it funny that you've annointed Cutler future superstar after barely squeaking past the Bills.
3 DEFENSIVE BACKS IN COVERAGE?!?!

The barely squeaking by is what convinces me his a superstar in the making. 2 MINUTES, Down 2 points. 80+ yards to go. 2 fourth down conversions. A 3rd AND 24! Cutler for the win.

[TheTruth]

What are you basing this on?

College careers? Rivers>>>>Cutler
Pro careers? Rivers>>>>Cutler
He probably realizes that Cutler played for the mighty power that was Vanderbilt and was still the Conference player of the year. Or maybe he just watches the games and sees that Cutler has a better arm, better mobility, and can get the ball within 2 feet of his WR.

[TheSanityAnnex]

He probably realizes that Cutler played for the mighty power that was Vanderbilt and was still the Conference player of the year. Or maybe he just watches the games and sees that Cutler has a better arm, better mobility, and can get the ball within 2 feet of his WR.Talk to me when Cutler makes a ProBowl.

[TheTruth]

When Manning and Brady go on the decline, Rivers will be the best QB in the league.
jesus man, if Brady ever has a game like that with 8 men in the box I'll buy you a San Diego super bowl video.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The barely squeaking by is what convinces me his a superstar in the making. 2 MINUTES, Down 2 points. 80+ yards to go. 2 fourth down conversions. A 3rd AND 24! Cutler for the win.If he was a superstar in the making, he shouldn't of had his team down 2 points with 2 minutes to go........to the Bills.

[TheTruth]

Talk to me when Cutler makes a ProBowl.
I most definitely will.

[TheTruth]

If he was a superstar in the making, he shouldn't of had his team down 2 points with 2 minutes to go........to the Bills.
Elway was a superstar right? How many game winning drives did he have? Against subpar teams? Cutler had 300+ yards passing. His kicker missed 2 field goals. Cutler for the win.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The Bills.

[TheTruth]

The Bills.
Got beat by Jay Cutler when they were up by 2 points with 2 minutes left.

[TheTruth]

I know you're a Chargers fan Sanity. Which means you weren't a football fan before 2004. Which means you probably didn't watch much football before 2004. So, I'm gonna assume that you never got to see many of the great QB's of the last 20 years or so. Great QB's don't struggle with 8 men in the box. Peyton Manning didn't do it against the Bears in the Super Bowl. Drew Brees didn't do it in the NFC championship game. Tom Brady sure as hell would never struggle.

Rivers will never be more than a good QB with great weapons. Never.

[TheTruth]

Watch the Broncos/Falcons super bowl. That's how you destroy 8 men in the box.

[Whisky Dog]

Cutler has the tools, but I don't know if he has all the heart yet. He has a very good team around him so that helps. Rivers fits in the same category, but I'd say he's shown more than Cutler at this point. Leinart can't throw on the run and may not have the heart either. He also has a decent team around him and a good defense, but not a great O line. VY has the worst team around him of the 4 and yet keeps winning. That's fuckin amazing. The guy gets the best out of his teammates.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Rivers will never be more than a good QB with great weapons. Never.Explain to me how Rivers led his team in back to back comeback wins over Cincinnati and Denver last year from point deficits never before overcome? You can even bring up the comeback he led against Seattle if you'd like.


The dude was just in the ProBowl. Saying Rivers is average makes you look retarded, almost as retarded as calling Cutler a superstar after one game.

[leemajors]

my bologna has a first name, it's H O M E R.

[johnsmith]

my bologna has a first name, it's H O M E R.


No shit. I may be a homer for the Broncos but come the fuck on.

Sanity, as much as your posts crack me up damn near every time I read them, quit turning every fucking NFL thread into one about the Chargers.

You constantly do this. The Chargers are a fantastic team this year, no doubt. But they were last year too and it resulted in yet another dissapointing post season. Win a Super Bowl, then hijack the threads.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Sanity, as much as your posts crack me up damn near every time I read them, quit turning every fucking NFL thread into one about the Chargers.

I simply laughed at TheTruth saying Cutler would be a superstar, without any mention of the Chargers. TheTruth proceeded to bring the Chargers into this, I followed his lead.

And what is the problem with bringing Rivers into this conversation anyways? He's a young QB just like Leinart, Young, and Cutler.

[johnsmith]

I simply laughed at TheTruth saying Cutler would be a superstar, without any mention of the Chargers. TheTruth proceeded to bring the Chargers into this, I followed his lead.

And what is the problem with bringing Rivers into this conversation anyways? He's a young QB just like Leinart, Young, and Cutler.


Because you bring the Chargers into every single thread.

Having said all that, you are still one of my favorite posters on this site, so keep up the good work, just note my complaint.

[TheSanityAnnex]

There's not an official Chargers thread, what else am I supposed to do? Complaint noted and disregarded.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Using wins to measure a quarterback's effectiveness is total bullshit. Take last year for example. Against the Chiefs and the Bears, Matt Leinart led the Cards to what should've been two game winning field goals. Neil Rackers missed both of them. Two losses, and there wasn't a damn thing that Leinart could've done about it. Neil Rackers shanks a 41 yarder and Leinart can't win, but the Titans kicker makes a 60 yarder and Vince Young "just wins".

But on the topic, I think that all three of them will be great.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

The W/L argument comes into play either when the stats between two QBs are extremely close or when the QB being defended has shitty stats.

I remember when the Texans beat the Steelers with 47 yards of total offense in 2002. Should Carr get the credit for the win in guiding his team to a whooping 12 yards of offense per quarter?

W/L record is a team stat.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

And it's only one week, but VY and Leinart are the two worst QBs in terms of QB rating.

[O-Factor]

The Truth is Vince Young>cutler. VY does it with less talent right now also............Broncos barely beat the fucking Bills...the Bills. Calm the fuck down. Oh, and Rivers>cutler also.

[TheZackAttack!]

Got beat by Jay Cutler when they were up by 2 points with 2 minutes left.

Rivers and Young would of NEVER been down 2 to the Bills with 2 min left. They'd of put the game away by then. Take Culter's cock out of your mouth already.

[Whisky Dog]

And it's only one week, but VY and Leinart are the two worst QBs in terms of QB rating.

Cutler - barely beat a shitty, shitty team that had it's competitive fire taken away by the near on field death of a teammate.

Leinart - Lost to a relatively shitty 9ers team with absolutely no offense whatosever, but a good defense.

Young - Led his team to beat a team in the Jaguars in which almost nobody gave them a chance. The guy leads winners one way or another. I wouldn't be surprised if they beat the Colts this weekend, they shouldn't, but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Trainwreck2100]

Yeah that idiotic lateral he threw really impressed me. And the fact that he didn't have the genius to spike the dam ball.

[TheTruth]

Yeah that idiotic lateral he threw really impressed me. And the fact that he didn't have the genius to spike the dam ball.
He was at the line ready to spike the damn ball when the kicking team came running onto the field. He had to run off so they didn't get a penalty for too many men on the field. Pretty heads up play.

[johnsmith]

There's not an official Chargers thread, what else am I supposed to do? Complaint noted and disregarded.

Agreed.

[J.T.]

There's not an official Chargers thread, what else am I supposed to do? Complaint noted and disregarded.

Start one. I'd post legit stuff to it with the exception of Week 10 and any potential playoff encounter the Colts may have with the Chargers.

[monosylab1k]

Using wins to measure a quarterback's effectiveness is total bullshit.
LMAO right.

That's why Dan Marino >>> Joe Montana, right? Cuz winning means nothing :rolleyes

[johnsmith]

LMAO right.

That's why Dan Marino >>> Joe Montana, right? Cuz winning means nothing :rolleyes


I agree with you, but if you look at in reverse,

Trent Dilfer>>>>>>>Dan Marino.

[word]

The donkeys barely beat a banged up and later emotionally drained Bills who aren't that good. When I see Cutler I think Drew Brees. That is good, and that is bad.

The Titans go into the donkey's house for Monday Night Football around week 7 so we shall see, we shall see.

[stretch]

The Truth is Vince Young>cutler. VY does it with less talent right now also............Broncos barely beat the fucking Bills...the Bills. Calm the fuck down. Oh, and Rivers>cutler also.

Jaguars > Bills

Cutler's Team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Young's Team

Young > Cutler

[stretch]

I agree with you, but if you look at in reverse,

Trent Dilfer>>>>>>>Dan Marino.
That's completely twisting the point. We are comparing great quarterbacks. Not a POS that got carried to a championship, to a HOF quarterback that just couldn't find a way to get it done in the playoffs.

[johnsmith]

That's completely twisting the point. We are comparing great quarterbacks. Not a POS that got carried to a championship, to a HOF quarterback that just couldn't find a way to get it done in the playoffs.


I know it's twisting the point, see where I said "if you look at it in reverse"?

[johnsmith]

Jaguars > Bills

Cutler's Team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Young's Team

Young > Cutler


It's week one of the season.

All of those things still remain to be seen.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

LMAO right.

That's why Dan Marino >>> Joe Montana, right? Cuz winning means nothing :rolleyes

Football is a team sport. Just looking at win loss records to judge a quarterbacks effectiveness is total bullshit. I think that my example clearly illustrated that. Just because the Titans kicker can make a last minute field goal and the Cardinal's kicker can't doesn't mean that Vince Young > Matt Leinart.

[Whisky Dog]

Football is a team sport. Just looking at win loss records to judge a quarterbacks effectiveness is total bullshit. I think that my example clearly illustrated that. Just because the Titans kicker can make a last minute field goal and the Cardinal's kicker can't doesn't mean that Vince Young > Matt Leinart.

No, but Matt Leinart being slow as shit and still not able to throw a decent ball makes VY > Matt Leinart. The FACT that VY is a leader and gets the best out of his team while Leinart's teams constantly underperform while he is QB makes VY>>>>>>>Matt Leinart.

[fyatuk]

Football is a team sport. Just looking at win loss records to judge a quarterbacks effectiveness is total bullshit. I think that my example clearly illustrated that. Just because the Titans kicker can make a last minute field goal and the Cardinal's kicker can't doesn't mean that Vince Young > Matt Leinart.

Well, it's not total bullshit since the QB is always considered the most important man on the field, but it really isn't all that good of a measure without knowing the context of those wins as well.

I mean, Quincy Carter had a decent winning percentage, and I doubt many people would argue he's anywhere near a decent quarterback (I believe he semi-recently got cut from an arena league team and couldn't cut it in the CFL either).

[johnsmith]

Well, it's not total bullshit since the QB is always considered the most important man on the field, but it really isn't all that good of a measure without knowing the context of those wins as well.

I mean, Quincy Carter had a decent winning percentage, and I doubt many people would argue he's anywhere near a decent quarterback (I believe he semi-recently got cut from an arena league team and couldn't cut it in the CFL either).


More to the point, Jake Plummer.

His winning percentage in Denver was higher then Elway.


So........Plumer>>>>Elway?

[leemajors]

More to the point, Jake Plummer.

His winning percentage in Denver was higher then Elway.


So........Plumer>>>>Elway?
didn't he very recently marry a bronco cheerleader?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

No, but Matt Leinart being slow as shit and still not able to throw a decent ball makes VY > Matt Leinart. The FACT that VY is a leader and gets the best out of his team while Leinart's teams constantly underperform while he is QB makes VY>>>>>>>Matt Leinart.

So if VY gets all the credit for the Titans playing good D and their RBs having a great game, does he get all the blame when the D is a sieve, his RBs fumble 3 times and say his K shanks a potential game-winning FG?

The guy didn't do dick in about half of the wins credited to him thus far as an NFL QB. He has the potential to be a very good QB in the NFL, but as it is right now, he is horrible throwing the ball. Flat out horrible.

I know, I know. He just wins.

Single-handedly.

[johnsmith]

didn't he very recently marry a bronco cheerleader?


I don't know, but when I was in college, I nailed a Broncos cheerleader.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

No, but Matt Leinart being slow as shit and still not able to throw a decent ball makes VY > Matt Leinart. The FACT that VY is a leader and gets the best out of his team while Leinart's teams constantly underperform while he is QB makes VY>>>>>>>Matt Leinart.

Yeah USC constantly underperformed under Matt Leinart :rolleyes. The homerism is blinding.

I think that both Matt and Vince are pretty much equal in that they both have completely different styles of play, but are natural leaders who are destined for stardom. I'll wait to decide who is better three years down the road.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

I don't know, but when I was in college, I nailed a Broncos cheerleader.

Pics?

[Whisky Dog]

Yeah USC constantly underperformed under Matt Leinart :rolleyes. The homerism is blinding.

I think that both Matt and Vince are pretty much equal in that they both have completely different styles of play, but are natural leaders who are destined for stardom. I'll wait to decide who is better three years down the road.

In case you haven't noticed this isn't USC or the NCAA anymore. Leinart doesn't have the nations top recruits with him to either beat up on lesser equipped teams or still get his ass handed to him by a VY team. Even that hack John David Booty can win with the talent USC puts on the field.

Here, I'll make this simple for you. So far in their NFL careers, VY has shown that he is a leader and gets the best out of his team (a team that is very limited compared to others in their conference) while Leinart has yet to show that he can lead his teams to consistent play in his comparably far weaker conference. Sure there were a couple of games where the FG kicker decided, but the fact remains that Leinart and his team put themselves in a position to lose a game without the FG against decent competition and the guy missed the kicks. VY and his team put themselves in a situation for that one game where a FG was needed to win without overtime against the eventual NFL champions. The guy happened to make the kick.

When Leinart was coming into the league the knock on him was that he is immobile and doesn't throw a tight spiral. Those problems are becoming very evident in this league. He hasn't started his career off well at all.

[johnsmith]

How come Vince Young is the only quarterback in the league who's success is ONLY measured by Wins vs losses?

Every other QB has their number scrutinized week in and week out, but with VY it's always his teams record?

Jake Plummer has the highest winning percentage among all Broncos quarterbacks, does that mean he's better then Elway?

[samikeyp]

As far as I know, the only stat that the NFL keeps for individual wins is at the QB position. Didn't Favre just tie or pass that recently?

Judging a QB by wins and losses isn't fair, but it is done and not just for VY. Last year, the media had a boner for Romo because he was 6-2 as a starter before the wheels came off at the end of the year.

[Whisky Dog]

Tom Brady has never been a really big statistical marvel, but he gets all the pub as one of the best if not the best because he leads his teams to wins. He may not always put up great stats, but he leads his teams to wins. All QB are judged by wins more than anything else because if you don't win you won't be the QB there for long.

[johnsmith]

As far as I know, the only stat that the NFL keeps for individual wins is at the QB position. Didn't Favre just tie or pass that recently?

Judging a QB by wins and losses isn't fair, but it is done and not just for VY. Last year, the media had a boner for Romo because he was 6-2 as a starter before the wheels came off at the end of the year.



Tom Brady has never been a really big statistical marvel, but he gets all the pub as one of the best if not the best because he leads his teams to wins. He may not always put up great stats, but he leads his teams to wins. All QB are judged by wins more than anything else because if you don't win you won't be the QB there for long.


Alright, fuck you guys. Both good answers.

I'll quit with my VY bashing for a while.

[samikeyp]

Tom Brady has never been a really big statistical marvel, but he gets all the pub as one of the best if not the best because he leads his teams to wins. He may not always put up great stats, but he leads his teams to wins. All QB are judged by wins more than anything else because if you don't win you won't be the QB there for long.

Well said.

Football is, IMO, the ultimate team sport but a disproportionate amount of focus is put on the QB position. It's not right, but it is true.

[samikeyp]

Alright, fuck you guys. Both good answers.

I'll quit with my VY bashing for a while

Dude...bash away...that is your right. :)

[stretch]

Football is a team sport. Just looking at win loss records to judge a quarterbacks effectiveness is total bullshit. I think that my example clearly illustrated that. Just because the Titans kicker can make a last minute field goal and the Cardinal's kicker can't doesn't mean that Vince Young > Matt Leinart.
Leinart's RB > Young's RB

Leinart's WR's >>>>> Young's WR'S

Leinart's Defense = Young's defense

Leinart's Record < Young's Record

Young >>> Leinart

[2centsworth]

So if VY gets all the credit for the Titans playing good D and their RBs having a great game, does he get all the blame when the D is a sieve, his RBs fumble 3 times and say his K shanks a potential game-winning FG?

The guy didn't do dick in about half of the wins credited to him thus far as an NFL QB. He has the potential to be a very good QB in the NFL, but as it is right now, he is horrible throwing the ball. Flat out horrible.

I know, I know. He just wins.

Single-handedly.
jew a hater.


VY does a lot of damage and puts a lot of pressure on teams with his feet. Also, he makes clutch throws that win games.

He's completing 63% of his passes and is running for almost 5 yards a carry.

Plus, his team believes in him!

[stretch]

How come Vince Young is the only quarterback in the league who's success is ONLY measured by Wins vs losses?

Every other QB has their number scrutinized week in and week out, but with VY it's always his teams record?

Jake Plummer has the highest winning percentage among all Broncos quarterbacks, does that mean he's better then Elway?
what the fuck are you talking about?

Peyton Manning put up incredible numbers, but most people wouldn't consider him as the #1 QB in the league over Brady, BECAUSE he couldn't win a big game.

On the other hand, Brady didn't put up numbers like guys like Manning or Palmer, but because he won so many games and showed up in the big games, he was always considered the best.

No one considers Marc Bulger a top QB. He lately has put up some nice numbers, but his team doesn't ever really do much.

Big Ben isn't really an elite QB either. He puts up decent numbers, and got a ring, but when people watch him, they see that he really isn't as productive as he seems, and rides a very talented team more than leading a talented team.

There are reasons people say what they do. You have to watch the games, to understand what it is, that makes players like VY or Tom Brady (who doesn't put up eye-opening stats like Manning or Palmer, but gets wins) special.

EDIT: I didn't see that a couple others already had posted similar answers to what I said. But oh well. Read it again.

[johnsmith]

what the fuck are you talking about?

Peyton Manning put up incredible numbers, but most people wouldn't consider him as the #1 QB in the league over Brady, BECAUSE he couldn't win a big game.

On the other hand, Brady didn't put up numbers like guys like Manning or Palmer, but because he won so many games and showed up in the big games, he was always considered the best.

No one considers Marc Bulger a top QB. He lately has put up some nice numbers, but his team doesn't ever really do much.

Big Ben isn't really an elite QB either. He puts up decent numbers, and got a ring, but when people watch him, they see that he really isn't as productive as he seems, and rides a very talented team more than leading a talented team.

There are reasons people say what they do. You have to watch the games, to understand what it is, that makes players like VY or Tom Brady (who doesn't put up eye-opening stats like Manning or Palmer, but gets wins) special.

EDIT: I didn't see that a couple others already had posted similar answers to what I said. But oh well. Read it again.


Yeah, I've already been pretty much shut down on that argument. Having said that, I watch a lot of the Titans just so I can bitch about VY and frankly, I'm still not impressed. His running game is good, his offensive line gives him decent protection, and his defense is very good. In my opinion, it's not VY winning these football games.

[fyatuk]

Tom Brady has never been a really big statistical marvel, but he gets all the pub as one of the best if not the best because he leads his teams to wins. He may not always put up great stats, but he leads his teams to wins. All QB are judged by wins more than anything else because if you don't win you won't be the QB there for long.

It was the same with Aikman. He didn't put up spectacular numbers most of the time, but his teams won a lot so he's one of the greats. For his carreer he averaged less than 200 ypg passing, 61% completion, 1 TD and 0.8 INT or so and and only had 2 seasons with a QB rating over 90.

Not that he doesn't deserve it, but his numbers seem paltry compared to the people he's mentioned with.

[Whisky Dog]

Yeah, I've already been pretty much shut down on that argument. Having said that, I watch a lot of the Titans just so I can bitch about VY and frankly, I'm still not impressed. His running game is good, his offensive line gives him decent protection, and his defense is very good. In my opinion, it's not VY winning these football games.

That's the weird thing about it. He definitely has a lot of room for improvement as a QB, and I think he is on that road and is improving bit by bit. We still have to remember that this guy hasn't even been a starter for 1 season of games yet. That said, his stats aren't that impressive, but what is weird is how his team just plays better with him at QB. When Collins was the QB the defense was mediocre, the line was mediocre, and the running game was less than mediocre. Once he took over all of those things got steadily better, it just seems like every player on that team is more motivated and more confident with him as the QB, and that leads to better performance. Believe me, I can't explain it. He did the same thing at Texas, where the culture was underachieving and playing without a killer instinct for years before Vince became the QB. Once he started his first full season in 2004 the team just seemed to play harder. That snowballed and eventually became the 2005 National Title team. I don't know what the hell that guy says or what he does, but it seems to get the best out of his teammates. The same guys that played poorly with no enthusiam before Vince are all of a sudden busting their ass rolling with confidence with him at QB. The guy's basically the football version of Patton.

[midgetonadonkey]

I'm glad Vince Young isn't a Cowboy. If he was the slurping of his cock would be way too loud. VY isn't a great QB and will never be one. He is a mobile dude that throws the football as well as a 10 year old cunt. He wins games with his feet but so did Vick and Randall Cunningham. Neither one of them fuckers have a ring or are great. VY is on the same path.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm glad Vince Young isn't a Cowboy. If he was the slurping of his cock would be way too loud. VY isn't a great QB and will never be one. He is a mobile dude that throws the football as well as a 10 year old cunt. He wins games with his feet but so did Vick and Randall Cunningham. Neither one of them fuckers have a ring or are great. VY is on the same path.

I wouldn't expect anything less from an Aggies fan.

You're completely biased on this.

[midgetonadonkey]

I wouldn't expect anything less from an Aggies fan.

You're completely biased on this.

Yes I am. But so are all the other people saying he is going to be a great QB. If Vince Young went to USC instead of TU everyone here would be trashing him.

[peewee's lovechild]

Yes I am. But so are all the other people saying he is going to be a great QB. If Vince Young went to USC instead of TU everyone here would be trashing him.

I thought he went to UT, but I might've been mistaken there.

But, anyway, he's proven he can be a leader in the NFL. He's done it with his arm and with his legs. He'll be a force to be reckoned with.

You know that you would be licking his balls if he were the starting QB in Houston.

[stretch]

I watch a lot of the Titans just so I can bitch about VY and frankly, I'm still not impressed... his offensive line gives him decent protection, and his defense is very good. In my opinion, it's not VY winning these football games.

Then you must not watch a lot of the Titans, other than highlights.

[midgetonadonkey]

I thought he went to UT, but I might've been mistaken there.

But, anyway, he's proven he can be a leader in the NFL. He's done it with his arm and with his legs. He'll be a force to be reckoned with.

You know that you would be licking his balls if he were the starting QB in Houston.

He hasn't proven shit in the NFL yet. Has he led his team to a ring or even a playoff birth? No. And that's all that matters when it comes to NFL QBs.

[peewee's lovechild]

He hasn't proven shit in the NFL yet. Has he led his team to a ring or even a playoff birth? No. And that's all that matters when it comes to NFL QBs.

So, your prognostication is based on less than a years worth of games played by VY??

That makes all the sense in the world.

But, I will say this:
He did more with that team than Kerry Collins, a starting QB who has taken a team to the playoffs.

[Findog]

He hasn't proven shit in the NFL yet. Has he led his team to a ring or even a playoff birth? No. And that's all that matters when it comes to NFL QBs.

9-6 in his first 15 NFL starts. He's doing just fine. Don't hate on Black Jesus.

[midgetonadonkey]

So, your prognostication is based on less than a years worth of games played by VY??

That makes all the sense in the world.

But, I will say this:
He did more with that team than Kerry Collins, a starting QB who has taken a team to the playoffs.

The same way you base your opinion on Brady Quinn after having played 3 quarters of preseason football.

[midgetonadonkey]

9-6 in his first 15 NFL starts. He's doing just fine. Don't hate on Black Jesus.

Black Jesus? lol So at the age of 33 he will be nailed to a cross by the Black Jews?

Even more reason to pass him up in the draft.

[Findog]

Black Jesus? lol So at the age of 33 he will be nailed to a cross by the Black Jews?

Even more reason to pass him up in the draft.

Here you are slamming him for not getting a team to the playoffs when he hasn't even had a full season. Even if they lose this week, 9-7 would be good enough in the NFC. He's way ahead of the curve. Most QB's not named Brady or Manning struggle out of the gate.

[midgetonadonkey]

Here you are slamming him for not getting a team to the playoffs when he hasn't even had a full season. Even if they lose this week, 9-7 would be good enough in the NFC. He's way ahead of the curve. Most QB's not named Brady or Manning struggle out of the gate.

Too bad he's not in the NFC. Ben Rothlisberger didn't struggle out of the gate and he isn't named Brady or Manning.

[Findog]

Too bad he's not in the NFC. Ben Rothlisberger didn't struggle out of the gate and he isn't named Brady or Manning.

So a QB has to go 15-1 with a stacked team around him for you to judge him a success?

[monosylab1k]

Actually, Manning was pretty bad in his rookie year

[monosylab1k]

Ben Rothlisberger didn't struggle out of the gate
He also didn't do much besides hand it off to Bettis and try the occasional dump off pass.

[stretch]

Too bad he's not in the NFC. Ben Rothlisberger didn't struggle out of the gate and he isn't named Brady or Manning.
Ben Rothlisberger also had a team that was about 10 times better than Vince has, dumbass.

[johnsmith]

Then you must not watch a lot of the Titans, other than highlights.

Well, I watched every minute of last Sunday's game and again, wasn't impressed.

[Findog]

Actually, Manning was pretty bad in his rookie year

I remember the Colts were pretty bad his rookie year. I remembered him being mediocre -- 3800 yards passing, 57% completion rate, he just threw a ton of picks. I guess my point is that he showed enough as a rookie that you knew he was going to be fine. Same with Vince. I doubt he'll be as good as Manning, but he's going to have a good career.

[Findog]

He also didn't do much besides hand it off to Bettis and try the occasional dump off pass.

He's the ultimate "game-manager" QB. Trent Dilfer was the same QB in Baltimore he was in Tampa Bay.

[stretch]

Well, I watched every minute of last Sunday's game and again, wasn't impressed.
Suit yourself.

[peewee's lovechild]

The same way you base your opinion on Brady Quinn after having played 3 quarters of preseason football.

:lol :lol

I'll give you that one, but we're not talking about "Tom" Brady Quinn here.

[peewee's lovechild]

Black Jesus? lol So at the age of 33 he will be nailed to a cross by the Black Jews?

Even more reason to pass him up in the draft.

:lmao

[stretch]

I remember the Colts were pretty bad his rookie year. I remembered him being mediocre -- 3800 yards passing, 57% completion rate, he just threw a ton of picks. I guess my point is that he showed enough as a rookie that you knew he was going to be fine. Same with Vince. I doubt he'll be as good as Manning, but he's going to have a good career.
He's definitely not going to be as good of a passer, but he is already more clutch than Manning will ever be.

I don't care that he has a ring now... other than ONE half of football (in the NE game), he has done nothing to show me that he is truly a clutch QB, or a good pressure playoff performer.

[Findog]

He's definitely not going to be as good of a passer, but he is already more clutch than Manning will ever be.

I don't care that he has a ring now... other than ONE half of football (in the NE game), he has done nothing to show me that he is truly a clutch QB, or a good pressure playoff performer.

That's all you need to win a Super Bowl, since the Bears were a formality. The first one is always the hardest. I put them on equal footing with NW now.

[J.T.]

I thought he went to UT, but I might've been mistaken there.

You didn't know that any true Aggie fan melts like the wicked witch if they ever say "UT" right?

[stretch]

That's all you need to win a Super Bowl, since the Bears were a formality. The first one is always the hardest. I put them on equal footing with NW now.
I don't think Manning is going to be having anymore choke jobs. But I don't think he is going to be clutch and handle pressure the way Brady and Young does. He is just naturally a more easily rattled person.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

He is a mobile dude that throws the football as well as a 10 year old cunt. He wins games with his feet but so did Vick and Randall Cunningham. Neither one of them fuckers have a ring or are great. VY is on the same path.

Couldn't have said it better myself.


And did someone bring YPC into a QB discussion?

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Leinart's RB > Young's RB

Leinart's WR's >>>>> Young's WR'S

Leinart's Defense = Young's defense

Leinart's Record < Young's Record

Young >>> Leinart

Young's O-line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leinart's O-line

And Young had a vastly superior running game to help him out last year, not to mention a defense that basically won him a few games. Plus a kicker who can make freak 60 yards to win games, whereas Leinart's kicker choked on two game winning field goals. Nice to see Matt bounce back with a very good game this week too.

Oh, and Peyton Manning has more clutch ability in his pinky two than Vince does in his entire body. Call me when VY gets a playoff berth let alone leads one of the most prolific playoff comebacks in NFL history en route to a superbowl.

[johnsmith]

Young's O-line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leinart's O-line

And Young had a vastly superior running game to help him out last year, not to mention a defense that basically won him a few games. Plus a kicker who can make freak 60 yards to win games, whereas Leinart's kicker choked on two game winning field goals. Nice to see Matt bounce back with a very good game this week too.

Oh, and Peyton Manning has more clutch ability in his pinky two than Vince does in his entire body. Call me when VY gets a playoff berth let alone leads one of the most prolific playoff comebacks in NFL history en route to a superbowl.

:clap

[Whisky Dog]

Young's O-line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leinart's O-line

And Young had a vastly superior running game to help him out last year, not to mention a defense that basically won him a few games. Plus a kicker who can make freak 60 yards to win games, whereas Leinart's kicker choked on two game winning field goals. Nice to see Matt bounce back with a very good game this week too.

Oh, and Peyton Manning has more clutch ability in his pinky two than Vince does in his entire body. Call me when VY gets a playoff berth let alone leads one of the most prolific playoff comebacks in NFL history en route to a superbowl.

Just wait a couple of years.

[peewee's lovechild]

Call me when VY gets a playoff berth let alone leads one of the most prolific playoff comebacks in NFL history en route to a superbowl.

He's supposed to take a VERY young team to the playoffs in 15 starts???

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Just wait a couple of years.

Exactly the point.

[midgetonadonkey]

He's supposed to take a VERY young team to the playoffs in 15 starts???

If he is as great as everyone says, then yes.

[Findog]

Oh, and Peyton Manning has more clutch ability in his pinky two than Vince does in his entire body. Call me when VY gets a playoff berth let alone leads one of the most prolific playoff comebacks in NFL history en route to a superbowl.

You gotta be kidding me. I always thought the not-clutch label as applied to Peyton was a little unfair, but VY has more than earned that title. I'll call you next week after Vince Young gets his 16th NFL start. Manning's only a 9-year vet.

[monosylab1k]

Oh, and Peyton Manning has more clutch ability in his pinky two than Vince does in his entire body.
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[midgetonadonkey]

You gotta be kidding me. I always thought the not-clutch label as applied to Peyton was a little unfair, but VY has more than earned that title. I'll call you next week after Vince Young gets his 16th NFL start. Manning's only a 9-year vet.

Even Joey Harrington has 16 career starts. What does that matter?

[Whisky Dog]

I know he "choaddd bloaaaaded I saidddddddd" the greatest college football team of all time, but let the guy get some NFL experience and a decent team built around him before expecting him to win a SB. If you put Manning as the QB on the Titans that fool would be constantly red in the face being chased around by blitzers, laying flat on his ass, and pointing and gyrating at his receivers for being shitty and dropping 3rd and 4 passes. Give VY the kind of protection Manning gets along with Harrison, Wayne, and Dallas Clark and the entire NFL's CHOADDDDDDD would explode witnessing that kind of greatness.

[monosylab1k]

VY has accomplished more and been about 1000000000000000x more clutch than Peyton Manning had in the same amount of time.

Plus, in college Manning was a choking bitch too. All VY did was take down one of the greatest juggernauts in college football history.

[monosylab1k]

I know he "choaddd bloaaaaded I saidddddddd" the greatest college football team of all time, but let the guy get some NFL experience and a decent team built around him before expecting him to win a SB. If you put Manning as the QB on the Titans that fool would be constantly red in the face being chased around by blitzers, laying flat on his ass, and pointing and gyrating at his receivers for being shitty and dropping 3rd and 4 passes. Give VY the kind of protection Manning gets along with Harrison, Wayne, and Dallas Clark and the entire NFL's CHOADDDDDDD would explode witnessing that kind of greatness.
:tu

[Whisky Dog]

VY's clutchness in the 2005 season alone eclipses Manning's entire career of clutch.

Manning is the Troy Aikman of the 21st Century - give him a great offensive scheme with the best O Line and receivers in football and he'll get wins. Aikman's numbers weren't as great because those teams could line up and run the ball up your ass constantly where Manning's system is more pass oriented, but either one of them on this year's Titans would suck horribly.

[Whisky Dog]

I've said it once and I'll say it again - Peyton Manning is all Dungy.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I guess people forget that Manning led the Colts to a 13-3 record, had six 4th Q comebacks and led the team on a 11 game W streak in his 2nd year.

We'll see if VY can accomplish more....

[monosylab1k]

I guess people forget that Manning led the Colts to a 13-3 record, had six 4th Q comebacks and led the team on a 11 game W streak in his 2nd year.

We'll see if VY can accomplish more....
Give him Faulk & Harrison and he'd have no problem.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Faulk was a Ram in 1999.

[Whisky Dog]

I guess people forget that Manning led the Colts to a 13-3 record, had six 4th Q comebacks and led the team on a 11 game W streak in his 2nd year.

We'll see if VY can accomplish more....

He has half the team so if he accomplishes half as much it'll be even. Manning dug himself into the crater of clutch craters for the extreme amount of anti-clutchness emulating from his pores while he was in Tenn. He entered the NFL so far down in the anti-clutchness hole that he's just now starting to climb his goofy ass out.

VY achieved clutchness that hadn't been witnessed my mankind since Doolittle's men nutted up and dropped bombs over Tokyo. Manning's so far back in clutchness that Vince would need the Hubble telescope to find his ass.

[midgetonadonkey]

Give him Faulk & Harrison and he'd have no problem.

He still would. He can't throw more than 30 yards down field.

[monosylab1k]

Faulk was a Ram in 1999.
Edgerrin James then. big whoop.

[monosylab1k]

VY leaves Texas and they're losing to A&M and barely escaping Arkansas State with wins.

Peyton Manning leaves Tennessee and they immediately win a national championship with Tee Fucking Martin.

[Whisky Dog]

He still would. He can't throw more than 30 yards down field.



WTF? The man can stand flat footed and throw 60 yards with just a flip of the wrist. It may not be very accurate yet, but he can fire the fucker.

[midgetonadonkey]

WTF? The man can stand flat footed and throw 60 yards with just a flip of the wrist. It may not be very accurate yet, but he can fire the fucker.

:lmao

Were you watching a fucking Gatorade commercial?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Edgerrin James then. big whoop.

Why, are White/Brown's 170/game not enough for him?

[monosylab1k]

Why, are White/Brown's 170/game not enough for him?
All Edgerrin James did for Manning was run the ball?

[peewee's lovechild]

I've said it once and I'll say it again - Peyton Manning is all Dungy.

That's retarded.

Dungy doesn't have all that much input on the offensive side.
Tom Moore is the guy who should take credit for Manning's success.

[Whisky Dog]

:lmao

Were you watching a fucking Gatorade commercial?

I saw him do it at a practice in Austin. He's got a cannon, it's just not as accurate as need be yet.

[peewee's lovechild]

If he is as great as everyone says, then yes.

Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Johnny Unitas, and others didn't do it . . . why would you expect that from Vince Young?

[midgetonadonkey]

Joe Montana, Dan Marino, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubach, Johnny Unitas, and others didn't do it . . . why would you expect that from Vince Young?

He is Black Jesus afterall. Why wouldn't he do it?

And naming all those great QBs in the same sentence with Vince Young is just retarded.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Let's see what he does against an awful secondary this weekend.

And to be fair, it's not that I don't think he can become an elite QB. It's just that I think he has a long, long way to go in achieving that.

As it is now, his mechanics look the same as last year - ugly.

He should be better in the second half of the season than he is now, though.

[midgetonadonkey]

Let's see what he does against an awful secondary this weekend.

And to be fair, it's not that I don't think he can become an elite QB. It's just that I think he has a long, long way to go in achieving that.

As it is now, his mechanics look the same as last year - ugly.

He should be better in the second half of the season than he is now, though.

But he beat USC in college. :jack

[peewee's lovechild]

He is Black Jesus afterall. Why wouldn't he do it?

And naming all those great QBs in the same sentence with Vince Young is just retarded.

I wasn't equating him with them you tard.

My point was that all those "greats" didn't have that spectacular start that you want VY to have.

[peewee's lovechild]

Let's see what he does against an awful secondary this weekend.

And to be fair, it's not that I don't think he can become an elite QB. It's just that I think he has a long, long way to go in achieving that.

As it is now, his mechanics look the same as last year - ugly.

He should be better in the second half of the season than he is now, though.

He has to improve, no doubt.
Give Norm Chow some more time with him.

[peewee's lovechild]

But he beat USC in college. :jack

That he did.

When was the last time A&M won a title?

Go ahead, take your time.

[stretch]

Young's O-line>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Leinart's O-line

And Young had a vastly superior running game to help him out last year, not to mention a defense that basically won him a few games. Plus a kicker who can make freak 60 yards to win games, whereas Leinart's kicker choked on two game winning field goals. Nice to see Matt bounce back with a very good game this week too.

Oh, and Peyton Manning has more clutch ability in his pinky two than Vince does in his entire body. Call me when VY gets a playoff berth let alone leads one of the most prolific playoff comebacks in NFL history en route to a superbowl.

After that Manning comment, I refuse to discuss football with you any further. You might possibly be the most ignorant person I have ever discussed football with, after reading that comment.

[midgetonadonkey]

That he did.

When was the last time A&M won a title?

Go ahead, take your time.

I wasn't arguing that any A&M QB was better. I'm saying that just because VY aka Black Jesus won one doesn't mean he's going to be a great NFL QB. Ken Dorsey won a National Championship an didn't do shit as an NFL QB. His numbers were comparable to Vince Young's as a rookie

[Findog]

Even Joey Harrington has 16 career starts. What does that matter?

After 4 or 5 years in the league, Harrington has shown himself to be a spare. However, nobody would give up on a guy after 15 starts with the shit he was surrounded with in Detroit. Next.

[leemajors]

amare is black jesus.

[monosylab1k]

Ken Dorsey won a National Championship an didn't do shit as an NFL QB. His numbers were comparable to Vince Young's as a rookie
VY - 19 total TD's, 13 INT
Dorsey - 6 total TD's, 9 INT

real comparable.

[midgetonadonkey]

VY - 19 total TD's, 13 INT
Dorsey - 6 total TD's, 9 INT

real comparable.

But wins are all that matters.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

You gotta be kidding me. I always thought the not-clutch label as applied to Peyton was a little unfair, but VY has more than earned that title. I'll call you next week after Vince Young gets his 16th NFL start. Manning's only a 9-year vet.

No doubt that VY is a clutch player, but to say that he's more clutch than Manning is absolutely absurd. If it's in the fourth quarter with two minutes to go, there's no way you could tell me with a straight face that you'd rather have Vince under center than Peyton.

Who knows if Vince will ever win a superbowl? He's certainly off to a good start landing in Tennessee under Jeff Fisher.

[peewee's lovechild]

I wasn't arguing that any A&M QB was better. I'm saying that just because VY aka Black Jesus won one doesn't mean he's going to be a great NFL QB. Ken Dorsey won a National Championship an didn't do shit as an NFL QB. His numbers were comparable to Vince Young's as a rookie

I dig on what you're saying about the national championship and all that. But, we're not saying that he's going to be a good/great NFL QB because of his college exploits. We're using his current play as our basis for that judgement.

But, comparing him with Ken Dorsey . . . what the fuck??

Dude, you know that was bullshit.

[peewee's lovechild]

But wins are all that matters.
You don't want to go down that road.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

VY - 19 total TD's, 13 INT
Dorsey - 6 total TD's, 9 INT

real comparable.

LOL @ using rushing stats to justify a quarterback. Granted Vince is way better than Dorsey, but the quarterback is paid to throw the football.

[monosylab1k]

No doubt that VY is a clutch player, but to say that he's more clutch than Manning is absolutely absurd.
He's more clutch than Manning was after one year in the NFL. Hell, he's more clutch than Manning was after his first EIGHT years in the NFL.

[peewee's lovechild]

LOL @ using rushing stats to justify a quarterback. Granted Vince is way better than Dorsey, but the quarterback is paid to throw the football.

Steve Young didn't get that memo.

[Findog]

No doubt that VY is a clutch player, but to say that he's more clutch than Manning is absolutely absurd. If it's in the fourth quarter with two minutes to go, there's no way you could tell me with a straight face that you'd rather have Vince under center than Peyton.

Who knows if Vince will ever win a superbowl? He's certainly off to a good start landing in Tennessee under Jeff Fisher.

Considering Peyton is in his prime, the Colts have WAY more talent on both sides of the ball and Vince is a second-year player, the comparison isn't really apt. Compared to where Peyton was in HIS second year in the League, after he couldn't beat Florida in four tries in college, I'd rather have Vince. Only time will tell how good he really is.

I personally don't understand the need to knock Player A or B in order to pump up Player C. I think Leinart will be a good QB in the pros too, but he might have to leave Arizona in order to become one.

[monosylab1k]

LOL @ using rushing stats to justify a quarterback. Granted Vince is way better than Dorsey, but the quarterback is paid to throw the football.

:lmao

The quarterback is paid to lead the team down the field and get the ball in the end zone more than the other team. It doesn't matter how the fuck he does it.

[monosylab1k]

Granted, in the NFL a quarterback MUST have the ability to stand in the pocket and deliver accurate passes. But to say that's all a QB is supposed to do is just fucking stupid.

Tommie Frazier is one of the greatest QB's in college football history. Couldn't throw a football for shit.

[Findog]

Granted, in the NFL a quarterback MUST have the ability to stand in the pocket and deliver accurate passes. But to say that's all a QB is supposed to do is just fucking stupid.

Tommie Frazier is one of the greatest QB's in college football history. Couldn't throw a football for shit.

speaking of the power of red, eric crouch agrees with you.

[J.T.]

I don't care that he has a ring now... other than ONE half of football (in the NE game), he has done nothing to show me that he is truly a clutch QB, or a good pressure playoff performer.

Everybody knows that the AFC title game is the real super bowl. Well, everybody but you.

[stretch]

Everybody knows that the AFC title game is the real super bowl. Well, everybody but you.
Everybody said the same thing about the NFC in Superbowl III.

Look how that one turned out...

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Steve Young didn't get that memo.

How did Steve Young do throwing the football?

Running quarterbacks who can't throw don't succeed and aren't good NFL quarterbacks. If you can't throw you aint worth shit.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

He's more clutch than Manning was after one year in the NFL. Hell, he's more clutch than Manning was after his first EIGHT years in the NFL.

He could end up being more clutch than Manning, but after one year in the NFL and no playoff appearances, it's impossible to make that claim. Once again, I'm way more afraid if Manning is lead the opposing team on a game ending drive than Vince. Could that change? Sure... but who really knows?

[monosylab1k]

How did Steve Young do throwing the football?
Steve Young never had a great arm (his passing numbers were not that good his first few years), but he learned how to exploit defenses and alot of that had to do with the fact that teams had to take into account his running ability.

Throwing to Jerry Rice didn't hurt him either.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Everybody said the same thing about the NFC in Superbowl III.

Look how that one turned out...

Wow, now that's reaching wayyyyyyyyy back.

You could have just went to the Rams/Pats SB in 2001. Nobody outside of NE thought the Pats could even hang, let alone win the game, against the Rams.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

When Vince Young finally has a cast around him, I see him leading them places. I can see VY winning superbowls. The son of a bitch is that fucking good. College,Pros it doesnt matter. He has that poise in the clutch. Leinart is going to be a solid qb as well. As far as Peyton Manning goes, VY isnt at that level yet. It is unfair to go into those debates. When VY finally has a good team around him, lets see how things go then we will talk. Manning has proven himself as a winner. Choker in the past or not, he got over that hump last year and lead his team to the superbowl. You cant call him a choker anymore because he led his team to the promised land. Chokers dont do that.

[Findog]

He could end up being more clutch than Manning, but after one year in the NFL and no playoff appearances, it's impossible to make that claim. Once again, I'm way more afraid if Manning is lead the opposing team on a game ending drive than Vince. Could that change? Sure... but who really knows?

This is asinine. It's like comparing Tim Duncan with Dwight Howard. VY and PM are at different stages of their careers. But Vince is way ahead of where Peyton was after 15 starts and college.

[stretch]

Wow, now that's reaching wayyyyyyyyy back.

You could have just went to the Rams/Pats SB in 2001. Nobody outside of NE thought the Pats could even hang, let alone win the game, against the Rams.
Yea, I thought about that one too. But SB III was possibly the most influential SB ever played.

Not to mention it had the Colts losing... :)

[stretch]

This is asinine. It's like comparing Tim Duncan with Dwight Howard. VY and PM are at different stages of their careers. But Vince is way ahead of where Peyton was after 15 starts and college.
Except that Tim Duncan isn't a choker, never has been, and never will be one.

[Findog]

Except that Tim Duncan isn't a choker, never has been, and never will be one.

Well, yeah, but I meant that it's not fair or useful to compare a superstar in the prime of his career to a young superstar in the making and fault the younger guy for not having accomplished as much.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

This is asinine. It's like comparing Tim Duncan with Dwight Howard. VY and PM are at different stages of their careers. But Vince is way ahead of where Peyton was after 15 starts and college.

But the statement was that right now VY is more "clutch" than Peyton. Until Vince proves otherwise you simply have to give the nod to the guy with all of those fourth quarter comebacks and the superbowl ring. Not saying that Vince will never get there, but as of right now Manning is the more clutch player.

[stretch]

Well, yeah, but I meant that it's not fair or useful to compare a superstar in the prime of his career to a young superstar in the making and fault the younger guy for not having accomplished as much.
Lol, yea i know, I just felt like taking a shot at manning, lol.

[johnsmith]

Lol, yea i know, I just felt like taking a shot at manning, lol.


You sure are LOLing a lot.

[stretch]

You sure are LOLing a lot.
and you sure aren't shutting the fuck up a lot when you make yourself look stupid.

[johnsmith]

and you sure aren't shutting the fuck up a lot when you make yourself look stupid.


good one. :rolleyes

[Findog]

But the statement was that right now VY is more "clutch" than Peyton. Until Vince proves otherwise you simply have to give the nod to the guy with all of those fourth quarter comebacks and the superbowl ring. Not saying that Vince will never get there, but as of right now Manning is the more clutch player.

I never said that "right now" Peyton is more clutch than Vince Young. As I said, one guy is about 9 years older, in the prime of his career, and he's on a team that is stacked on both sides of the ball. It's useless to make a comparison of who is more clutch "right now." We can only compare 24 year old Peyton to 24 year old Vince, and 24 year old Vince wins.

[monosylab1k]

We can only compare 24 year old Peyton to 24 year old Vince, and 24 year old Vince wins.
In a landslide. That's not even a competition. Until last January, Peyton Manning was the Dirk Nowitzki of the NFL.

[samikeyp]

Everybody said the same thing about the NFC in Superbowl III.

Look how that one turned out...

This statement is incorrect. I can guarantee you no one said anything about the NFC to that effect about SB 3.

[peewee's lovechild]

This statement is incorrect. I can guarantee you no one said anything about the NFC to that effect about SB 3.

I can gaurantee that I wasn't around for that.

[samikeyp]

I can gaurantee that I wasn't around for that.

I wasn't either but I know i'm correct.

[midgetonadonkey]

http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/2002Preview/pics/ken_dorsey2.jpg

The White Jesus!

[monosylab1k]

This statement is incorrect. I can guarantee you no one said anything about the NFC to that effect about SB 3.
I don't recall watching/reading anything about people giving the Jets (or any AFL team) much of a chance against an NFL team. It's still considered one of the greatest upsets of all time, and the reason Namath's guarantee became so legendary was due to the fact that nobody thought his team had a shot.

[peewee's lovechild]

I don't recall watching/reading anything about people giving the Jets (or any AFL team) much of a chance against an NFL team. It's still considered one of the greatest upsets of all time, and the reason Namath's guarantee became so legendary was due to the fact that nobody thought his team had a shot.

I hate to say this, but you're right.

[samikeyp]

My statement is correct.


No one said anything about the NFC to that effect about the NFC prior to SB3....










Because their was no NFC before SB3. The National Football Conference didn't exist until 1970.


Gotcha. :)




Seriously though Stretch is right, no one gave the Jets a shot before that game...just like no one gave the Chiefs a shot before SB4 so anything can happen.


I understand J.T.'s point too. When the NFC was dominant, many times the NFC championship game was labeled the "real" super bowl. I remember it very clearly in the early 90's when the Cowboys and Niners and Cowboys and Packers met in the NFC title games.

[monosylab1k]

Because their was no NFC before SB3. The National Football Conference didn't exist until 1970.
:lol okay, i was thinking that might be it.

[peewee's lovechild]

My statement is correct.


No one said anything about the NFC to that effect about the NFC prior to SB3....










Because their was no NFC before SB3. The National Football Conference didn't exist until 1970.


Gotcha. :)




Seriously though Stretch is right, no one gave the Jets a shot before that game...just like no one gave the Chiefs a shot before SB4 so anything can happen.


I understand J.T.'s point too. When the NFC was dominant, many times the NFC championship game was labeled the "real" super bowl. I remember it very clearly in the early 90's when the Cowboys and Niners and Cowboys and Packers met in the NFC title games.


I hate to say this, but you're right.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Lol, yea i know, I just felt like taking a shot at manning, lol.


Who do you hate more Manning or Brady? Pats or Colts?

[stretch]

In a landslide. That's not even a competition. Until last January, Peyton Manning was the Dirk Nowitzki of the NFL.
That's not even a good comparison for that time. Dirk actually had some very clutch performances in the playoffs. Manning had NONE.

[stretch]

Who do you hate more Manning or Brady? Pats or Colts?
I don't really hate the Colts. I just was messing around. I do hate the Pats though, but I don't hate Brady.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

That's not even a good comparison for that time. Dirk actually had some very clutch performances in the playoffs. Manning had NONE.

Didn't he go for 366 yards and 4 touchdowns against Denver in the playoffs one year?

[monosylab1k]

Didn't he go for 366 yards and 4 touchdowns against Denver in the playoffs one year?

[stretch]

Didn't he go for 366 yards and 4 touchdowns against Denver in the playoffs one year?
1. Denver sucked.

2. Don't forget that he choked his team out of the first round 3 straight times prior to that.

3. The one team that he faced that actually had a defense that put any kind of pressure on him (Patriots), made him look like Kerry Collins in the Super Bowl.

Dirk basically singlehandedly won the most critical games of 2 playoff series (Spurs game 7 and Suns game 5).

[2centsworth]

I'm glad Vince Young isn't a Cowboy. If he was the slurping of his cock would be way too loud. VY isn't a great QB and will never be one. He is a mobile dude that throws the football as well as a 10 year old cunt. He wins games with his feet but so did Vick and Randall Cunningham. Neither one of them fuckers have a ring or are great. VY is on the same path.
A see a lot of 10 year old cunts leading college football in passing effeciency. Give me some stats to back your claim.

Why are you comparing VY to Vick and Randall and not Steve Young or Staubach? Oh wait, mobile black quarterbacks can't win, but white ones can.

Get a clue.

[midgetonadonkey]

A see a lot of 10 year old cunts leading college football in passing effeciency. Give me some stats to back your claim.

Why are you comparing VY to Vick and Randall and not Steve Young or Staubach? Oh wait, mobile black quarterbacks can't win, but white ones can.

Get a clue.

Who said anything about black?

Racist prick.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

A see a lot of 10 year old cunts leading college football in passing effeciency.




Don't let anybody tell you that the NCAA Passer Efficiency Rating means nothing!

-Michael Vick(freshman record), Ryan Dinwiddie, Danny Wuerffel, Ty Detmer

BTW, didn't he finish 3rd in 2005 anyway?

[BeerIsGood!]

Who said anything about black?

Racist prick.

I believe he was saying that you are making the racist inferences onto black QBs

[peewee's lovechild]

I believe he was saying that you are making the racist inferences onto black QBs

Oh, well that's okay then.

[midgetonadonkey]

I believe he was saying that you are making the racist inferences onto black QBs

Those QBs are black? I'm sorry but I don't look at skin color.

[BeerIsGood!]

I don't really give a shit if you do or don't, but that's what he was alluding.

[2centsworth]

Those QBs are black? I'm sorry but I don't look at skin color.
apparently you do.

[Erect as a Bull]

:lol @ Charger fans.
But I agree that Cutler is the best of the 3.

and It dont matter if we beat the lowly Bills or the Pathetic Raiders.
We are 2-0.
Cutler is a Captain and Cutler is clutch.
He is like 13-16 on 3rd and 6 or longer passing the ball.
Thats pretty clutch IMO.
Hes like 15-20 on 3rd down passing period.
He makes plays when he needs to make plays.

Plus we have the number 1 offense in the league(Yardwise)

I cant wait til we play the Chargers on the 6th. :)

[peewee's lovechild]

:lol @ Charger fans.
But I agree that Cutler is the best of the 3.

and It dont matter if we beat the lowly Bills or the Pathetic Raiders.
We are 2-0.
Cutler is a Captain and Cutler is clutch.
He is like 13-16 on 3rd and 6 or longer passing the ball.
Thats pretty clutch IMO.
Hes like 15-20 on 3rd down passing period.
He makes plays when he needs to make plays.

Plus we have the number 1 offense in the league(Yardwise)

I cant wait til we play the Chargers on the 6th. :)

You racist rat bastard.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I know he "choaddd bloaaaaded I saidddddddd" the greatest college football team of all time, but let the guy get some NFL experience and a decent team built around him before expecting him to win a SB. If you put Manning as the QB on the Titans that fool would be constantly red in the face being chased around by blitzers, laying flat on his ass, and pointing and gyrating at his receivers for being shitty and dropping 3rd and 4 passes. Give VY the kind of protection Manning gets along with Harrison, Wayne, and Dallas Clark and the entire NFL's CHOADDDDDDD would explode witnessing that kind of greatness.


:lmao
:smokin

[Cant_Be_Faded]

BTW, didn't he finish 3rd in 2005 anyway?
correct but the year previous he was number 1.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Nah, that was Stefan Lefors.

VY finished 54th in '04.

[midgetonadonkey]

apparently you do.

How? Did I say anything about black when naming those QBs? You did. So fuck yourself. You are looking at the skin color. I was just mentioning run first QBs, like your boy Vince. Steve Young and Starbauch could actually throw a fucking pass. That's why they weren't mentioned. It had nothing to do with color. So you are a fucking racist prick that looks at skin color first.

[peewee's lovechild]

How? Did I say anything about black when naming those QBs? You did. So fuck yourself. You are looking at the skin color. I was just mentioning run first QBs, like your boy Vince. Steve Young and Starbauch could actually throw a fucking pass. That's why they weren't mentioned. It had nothing to do with color. So you are a fucking racist prick that looks at skin color first.

That's true, Midge likes the blacks.
He hates the Jews and the Arabs, but he likes the blacks.

Until the NFL is rampant with Jews and Arabs, Midge will be race free.

[Obstructed_View]

Oh wait, mobile black quarterbacks can't win, but white ones can.

Get a clue.

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/358741~Fran-Tarkenton-Photofile-Posters.jpg

[midgetonadonkey]

Leinart just pulled because he sucks.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Leinart just pulled because he sucks.

Kurt Warner is a god.

[ducks]

Baltimore 26, Arizona 23
Baltimore 26, Arizona 23

Preview - Box Score - Recap

By DAVID GINSBURG, AP Sports Writer
September 23, 2007

AP - Sep 23, 5:23 pm EDT
More Photos



BALTIMORE (AP) -- Steve McNair was ailing. Matt Leinart was awful. So Kurt Warner and Kyle Boller engaged in an unexpected fourth-quarter duel that wasn't decided until the game's final play.

After Warner rallied the Arizona Cardinals from a 17-point deficit, Boller moved the Ravens into position for a 46-yard field goal by Matt Stover as time expired, giving Baltimore a 26-23 victory Sunday.

The Ravens (2-1) led 20-3 at halftime and 23-6 entering the fourth quarter, but wilted in the final 15 minutes in a second straight game. Although the New York Jets never did pull even one week earlier, Warner rallied the Cardinals (1-2) to a tie at 23 with 1:50 left.

Leinart was sacked only once but received pressure on almost every throw. The second-year quarterback went 9-for-20 for 53 yards before being replaced for good by the 36-year-old Warner, who also made a brief appearance in the first half.

The Cardinals had used Warner in no-huddle situations in practice, and first-year coach Ken Whisenhunt decided the veteran was the best man to engineer the comeback.


"We were down three scores and we knew that was the best way to move the ball quickly," Whisenhunt said. "It wasn't a situation where Matt lost a job. It was Kurt did better with this package."

Boller entered in the fourth quarter for an ailing Steve McNair. After the Cardinals pulled even, Boller went 5-for-5 for 32 yards to get the Ravens in position for Stover's winning kick.

"You just try and put your mind in a place where hey, it's showtime," Boller said. "I'm warm, the body is warm. Just go through it and take one play at a time."

The Ravens benefited from a questionable personal foul call on safety Adrian Wilson, who was called for a high hit on Todd Heap at the end of a first-down pass.

"We had an airborne receiver hit by a defender, who we called launched into him, and he had a blow above the shoulders into the head area," referee Jerome Boger said.

Warner went 15-for-20 for 258 yards and two touchdowns. His favorite target was Anquan Boldin, who had a career-high 14 catches for 181 yards.

"I'll take the win over the numbers any day," Boldin said.


AP - Sep 23, 5:16 pm EDT
More Photos


Baltimore led by 17 late in the third quarter before Warner got to work. He went 6-for-6 for 72 yards in a drive that ended with a 5-yard touchdown pass to Boldin.

After a punt by Baltimore, Warner took the Cardinals 54 yards in two plays: a 22-yard completion to Larry Fitzgerald and a 32-yarder to Boldin with 10:19 left.

Warner completed the comeback on Arizona's next series, moving the Cardinals 64 yards in 10 plays before Neil Rackers kicked a 41-yard field goal to tie it.

"I think I was very fortunate to be in this situation," Warner said. "This is one of those teams that tries to keep you on your heels and second-guessing. When we got into the no-huddle we were able to force their hand a little bit."

Back after missing last week's game due to a groin injury, McNair went 20-for-27 for 198 yards and led the Ravens to scores in three of their first four possessions. But Baltimore coach Brian Billick called for Boller to start warming up with the Ravens up 23-6, and the quarterback entered after Warner put up Arizona's first touchdown.

McNair could have continued, but Billick said, "I could tell he was favoring it a little bit. I was worried about fatiguing; that's when an injury comes. It was time to put Kyle in so it didn't go further."

Willis McGahee finished with 98 yards rushing on 21 carries, and Derrick Mason had eight catches for 79 yards and a touchdown.

Stover kicked four field goals and moved past Norm Johnson into fifth place on the NFL career scoring list with 1,745 points.

Arizona fell behind 20-3 when rookie Yamon Figurs gathered in a punt and cut to his left en route to his first NFL touchdown. Figurs is playing for B.J. Sams, who is out for the season with a knee injury.

The Ravens got field goals on their first two possessions. Warner entered on Arizona's third series, after Leinart went 2-for-6 for 10 yards, and moved the Cardinals in position for a successful field goal.

McNair answered with a 70-yard drive, connecting with Mason on a 13-yard touchdown pass.

Leinart returned with a three-and-out, which led to Figurs' 75-yard return.

Notes

Ravens CB Samari Rolle was inactive because of illness. He was replaced by Corey Ivy. ... Arizona RB Edgerrin James' 27-yard run in the first quarter was his longest since joining the Cardinals in 2006. ... Stover has 416 career field goals, third most in NFL history.

[2centsworth]

How? Did I say anything about black when naming those QBs? You did. So fuck yourself. You are looking at the skin color. I was just mentioning run first QBs, like your boy Vince. Steve Young and Starbauch could actually throw a fucking pass. That's why they weren't mentioned. It had nothing to do with color. So you are a fucking racist prick that looks at skin color first.
staubach has a career 57% completion ratio and an 83% passer rating. Randel has a 60% completion ratio and a 82% passer rating. I'll give you a pass on racism and just give you stupid.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'll give you a pass on racism and just give you stupid.

I'm sure he's okay with that.

[stretch]

Another solid week by Vince Young, while Matt Leinart gets benched... LOL

[degenerate_gambler]

Another solid week by Vince Young, while Matt Leinart gets benched... LOL


:lol

[johnsmith]

Another solid week by Vince Young, while Matt Leinart gets benched... LOL


The Titans are your #3 team aren't they?

[monosylab1k]

The Titans are your #3 team aren't they?
Just cuz Vince Young is proving all you idiots wrong, don't go taking it out on other people. Just accept his supremacy and move on.

[stretch]

The Titans are your #3 team aren't they?
In fact, they are, and have been for a long time, since they were initally from Houston, and they were my #3 team, being from Texas. I was quite pleased when they drafted Vince Young.

[johnsmith]

In fact, they are, and have been for a long time, since they were initally from Houston, and they were my #3 team, being from Texas. I was quite pleased when they drafted Vince Young.


I'd make fun of you for having so many teams to root for, but frankly, I don't see it as necessary.

[monosylab1k]

I'd make fun of you for having so many teams to root for, but frankly, I don't see it as necessary.
lol, Jay Cutler

[stretch]

I'd make fun of you for having so many teams to root for, but frankly, I don't see it as necessary.
I also root for the Eagles, Falcons, Panthers, Rams, Patriots, Colts, Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Bucs, Steelers, Chargers, Chiefs, Seahawks, 49ers, Ravens, Bengals, Jaguars, Texans, Packers, Redskins, Lions, Giants, Vikings, Bears, Cardinals, and Saints.

[stretch]

lol, Jay Cutler
lol, bust

[johnsmith]

lol, bust


Ummm, Cutler has a better rating then Young so far this season.


lol.

[monosylab1k]

Ummm, Cutler has a better rating then Young so far this season.
passer rating, the be all end all of any QB discussion. Joey Harrington's 90.6 rating says hi.

[peewee's lovechild]

I also root for the Eagles, Falcons, Panthers, Rams, Patriots, Colts, Bills, Jets, Dolphins, Browns, Bucs, Steelers, Chargers, Chiefs, Seahawks, 49ers, Ravens, Bengals, Jaguars, Texans, Packers, Redskins, Lions, Giants, Vikings, Bears, Cardinals, and Saints.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

[stretch]

Ummm, Cutler has a better rating then Young so far this season.


lol.
His rating is 1 point higher, and he has thrown more picks than TDs, unlike Young. :dizzy

And here are the stats that matter most...

VY - 10-6

Cutler - 4-4

And then, give VY the all around talent that Denver has, and he is probably 13-3, maybe 14-2. Let's see how good Cutler is when his recievers drop half of his passes because they suck so bad.

[johnsmith]

His rating is 1 point higher, and he has thrown more picks than TDs, unlike Young. :dizzy

And here are the stats that matter most...

VY - 10-6

Cutler - 4-4

And then, give VY the all around talent that Denver has, and he is probably 13-3, maybe 14-2. Let's see how good Cutler is when his recievers drop half of his passes because they suck so bad.


No, here are the stats that matter most.....

VY 2-1

Cutler 2-1

Plus, this "would of, could of" shit about give VY the talent blah blah blah shit is ridiculous. It is what it is and the team around him is what it is.

If you're going to go that way, then Joe Montana wouldn't be one of the all time greats if his team wasn't so good. Emmitt Smith wouldn't have the record if his O-line wasn't so good. Jerry Rice wouldn't have been as good if his QB wasn't so good, etc. etc.

The argument is weak and flawed.

[johnsmith]

passer rating, the be all end all of any QB discussion. Joey Harrington's 90.6 rating says hi.


Ok, so then what should we go by?

Wins? Each player is 2-1.

Yards? 795-426

Completion percentage? 65.3 - 62.7

If you guys would stop sucking VY's cock for five minutes, you'd realize that he's really not that great.

Plus he'll get injured soon enough and become yet another inconsistant running quarterback.

[stretch]

No, here are the stats that matter most.....

VY 2-1

Cutler 2-1

Plus, this "would of, could of" shit about give VY the talent blah blah blah shit is ridiculous. It is what it is and the team around him is what it is.

If you're going to go that way, then Joe Montana wouldn't be one of the all time greats if his team wasn't so good. Emmitt Smith wouldn't have the record if his O-line wasn't so good. Jerry Rice wouldn't have been as good if his QB wasn't so good, etc. etc.

The argument is weak and flawed.
You obviously missed the point. The fact is, Cutler has a far superior team, and still can't win as much as Vince Young does. And when you compare who is a better QB, you don't compare them by their current stats or records. According to your logic, Josh McKown is equal to Donovan McNabb and better than Drew Brees. Or saying that Jeff Garcia is equal to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

What is it that makes guys like Montana, an all-time great? Because of his great winning percentages and rings. If we judged him by his last season alone, then he must not be an all-time great, because that is basically what you are saying, that you are only as good as your last season.

You truly are an idiot.

[stretch]

Ok, so then what should we go by?

Wins? Each player is 2-1.

Yards? 795-426

Completion percentage? 65.3 - 62.7

If you guys would stop sucking VY's cock for five minutes, you'd realize that he's really not that great.

Plus he'll get injured soon enough and become yet another inconsistant running quarterback.
Well, according to your logic, then mono is right, and I guess Joey Harrington is a hell of a QB, eh?

[monosylab1k]

Ok, so then what should we go by?

Wins? Each player is 2-1.

Yards? 795-426

Completion percentage? 65.3 - 62.7

If you guys would stop sucking VY's cock for five minutes, you'd realize that he's really not that great.

Plus he'll get injured soon enough and become yet another inconsistant running quarterback.
the only person you're going to conVINCE with that babble is you. Hey who did Denver lose to in Week 3? And who did the Titans beat in Week 1? Thanks.

[samikeyp]

Vince Young is the black Tony Romo.

;)

[monosylab1k]

Ok, so then what should we go by?

Wins? Each player is 2-1.

Yards? 795-426

Completion percentage? 65.3 - 62.7
Hey where's the interception totals? But then again I wouldn't expect you to be objective about this.

[johnsmith]

You obviously missed the point. The fact is, Cutler has a far superior team, and still can't win as much as Vince Young does. And when you compare who is a better QB, you don't compare them by their current stats or records. According to your logic, Josh McKown is equal to Donovan McNabb and better than Drew Brees. Or saying that Jeff Garcia is equal to Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.

You truly are an idiot.


You fucking moron. Have you watched a Denver Broncos game this season? Obviously not, and you are just talking out of your ass........AGAIN.

The Broncos are not a far superior team to damn near anyone this season. Their offensive line can't block for shit and gets shoved around constantly and their defense is small enough that they are on the field for a vast majority of the game.

You know nothing, and only assume because you don't pay any attention to any other team in the league other then your favorite (wait, I forgot you are a bandwagoner and a fan of whoever is winning).

Your arguments are as weak as you are.

[johnsmith]

the only person you're going to conVINCE with that babble is you. Hey who did Denver lose to in Week 3? And who did the Titans beat in Week 1? Thanks.

Your right, and the Texans beat the Colts last year so therefore they were the superior team right? :rolleyes

[johnsmith]

Hey where's the interception totals? But then again I wouldn't expect you to be objective about this.


You're absolutely right, but I didn't put it in because you had already mentioned it.

Cutler 4
VY 3

Though one of Cutler's was a fluke tipped ball.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

VY was decent last night. He didn't have to do much, but he didn't make mistakes to cost his team the game. I would have expected more against such a porous defense but they were winning the game and it wasn't necessary.

Again, the Titans D gets overlooked.

34 rushing yards against and caused 5 TOs.

[samikeyp]

Though one of Cutler's was a fluke tipped ball.

I don't think those should count against a QB's INT total.

[stretch]

You're absolutely right, but I didn't put it in because you had already mentioned it.

Cutler 4
VY 3

Though one of Cutler's was a fluke tipped ball.
There is your "coulda woulda" shit. STFU you fuckin hypocrite.

[johnsmith]

VY was decent last night. He didn't have to do much, but he didn't make mistakes to cost his team the game. I would have expected more against such a porous defense but they were winning the game and it wasn't necessary.

Again, the Titans D gets overlooked.

34 rushing yards against and caused 5 TOs.

All of those turnovers were because of the "vibe" VY was sending out while watching from the sidelines.

[johnsmith]

There is your "coulda woulda" shit. STFU you fuckin hypocrite.

Uh oh, the tough guy is coming out.

How about you stop sucking the cock of VY and you shut the fuck up?

[johnsmith]

I don't think those should count against a QB's INT total.

Not necessarily though, Plummer through tons of picks because he'd try to throw side arm and it would get tipped, those were his fault.

It's too hard to discern whose fault it was in my opinion.

[stretch]

You fucking moron. Have you watched a Denver Broncos game this season? Obviously not, and you are just talking out of your ass........AGAIN.

The Broncos are not a far superior team to damn near anyone this season. Their offensive line can't block for shit and gets shoved around constantly and their defense is small enough that they are on the field for a vast majority of the game.

You know nothing, and only assume because you don't pay any attention to any other team in the league other then your favorite (wait, I forgot you are a bandwagoner and a fan of whoever is winning).

Your arguments are as weak as you are.
Sorry, but I will take Walker, Stokely, and Henry over the Titans offensive "weapons" any day.

And then on defense, they got the best CB duo in the league, as well as John Lynch, Simeon Rice, Ian Gold... they have plenty of talent.

[monosylab1k]

All of those turnovers were because of the "vibe" VY was sending out while watching from the sidelines.
When the defense has confidence in their offense & QB, they tend to play better.

Nobody would say the Titans D is better than the Bears D, but the Bears D will always bend & eventually break because they're so beaten down from having to constantly make up for the shortcomings of their shitty QB.

Not saying Vince Young = defensive stops, but the defense certainly plays much better when they have confidence that the offense will do their part.

[stretch]

Uh oh, the tough guy is coming out.

How about you stop sucking the cock of VY and you shut the fuck up?
How about you stop licking Cutlers pussy, and shut the fuck up?

[stretch]

I don't think those should count against a QB's INT total.
I think that dropped passes shouldn't count against a QB's INT total. They should be considered fumbles by the WR.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

When the defense has confidence in their offense & QB, they tend to play better.

Nobody would say the Titans D is better than the Bears D, but the Bears D will always bend & eventually break because they're so beaten down from having to constantly make up for the shortcomings of their shitty QB.

Not saying Vince Young = defensive stops, but the defense certainly plays much better when they have confidence that the offense will do their part.

Of course the opposite is true as well.

[johnsmith]

Sorry, but I will take Walker, Stokely, and Henry over the Titans offensive "weapons" any day.

And then on defense, they got the best CB duo in the league, as well as John Lynch, Simeon Rice, Ian Gold... they have plenty of talent.


Dude, while I hate bashing my favorite team (the only favorite team), you are once again showing that you don't watch the games, you just talk out of your ass.

The Broncos receivers are great, no doubt, but when you don't have any time to throw the ball, it makes it sort of tough.

On defense, you've proven you just know the names and not the players. Lynch cannot stop the pass (at all) anymore, and he's frequently abused by one juke moves nowadays from runningbacks, plus he got hurt in the first quarter of Sunday's game.

Simeon Rice has shown his age and is damn near worthless against the run. Ian Gold misses more tackles then he makes and offenses just have to run the ball constantly against the Broncos in order to take up a bunch of clock and keep Cutler and the offense off the field and out of rythm.

The Broncos are allowing like 170 rushing yards a game right now.

[2centsworth]

VY was decent last night. He didn't have to do much, but he didn't make mistakes to cost his team the game. I would have expected more against such a porous defense but they were winning the game and it wasn't necessary.

Again, the Titans D gets overlooked.

34 rushing yards against and caused 5 TOs.
down 14-10 he drove his team down the field for the go ahead score. At that point the saints tanked and turned the ball over 3 more times.

VY was a solid B last night with a Quarterback rating above 90. Of course those stats never take into account the pressure he puts on opposing defenses with his legs.


You can continue the VY hate all you want, but he's only going to make you look dumber than you already do.

Pre-Vince the Titans were 0-4 and expected to be one of the worst franschises in the league. Since Vince started the Titans are 12-4!!!

Also, I heard last night that Vince's 4th quarter QB rating is above 100.

[johnsmith]

When the defense has confidence in their offense & QB, they tend to play better.

Nobody would say the Titans D is better than the Bears D, but the Bears D will always bend & eventually break because they're so beaten down from having to constantly make up for the shortcomings of their shitty QB.

Not saying Vince Young = defensive stops, but the defense certainly plays much better when they have confidence that the offense will do their part.

That I agree with. But if your defense is too worthless too get off the field to get your offense back on, then you have the Broncos of 2007.

[johnsmith]

I think that dropped passes shouldn't count against a QB's INT total. They should be considered fumbles by the WR.

That's actually a good idea, I've never thought of that.

[johnsmith]

down 14-10 he drove his team down the field for the go ahead score. At that point the saints tanked and turned the ball over 3 more times.

VY was a solid B last night with a Quarterback rating above 90. Of course those stats never take into account the pressure he puts on opposing defenses with his legs.


You can continue the VY hate all you want, but he's only going to make you look dumber than you already do.

Pre-Vince the Titans were 0-4 and expected to be one of the worst franschises in the league. Since Vince started the Titans are 12-4!!!

Also, I heard last night that Vince's 4th quarter QB rating is above 100.

He'll get injured.......frequently.

[monosylab1k]

Of course the opposite is true as well.
Yeah that definitely can be the case. I'm not sure if it's the case with the Titans though, since they has the worst defense in the league last season and went into this season with their best defensive player suspended for the season. But they definitely feed off of each other.

[johnsmith]

This thread alone will get me fired soon. I haven't done anything today.