If the Spurs can't make money...

[naico]

If the Spurs Can't Make Money...

September 12, 2007 6:00 PM


... how is anyone supposed to make money running a small-market NBA team?

They win titles with low payrolls. What could be better than that?

But they still need ongoing public subsidies?

Last week an article in San Antonio explained that the team is asking for more than $100 million new tax revenues to upgrade their five-year-old building.

P Nussbaum of SuperSonicSoul, a big NBA fan living in a city with its own stadium dilemma, is mad. He writes:

For those of you too lazy to read the article, it boils down to this:

The Spurs got a $193.5 million stadium from the city of San Antonio five years ago. Now they want $164 million to upgrade the ancient edifice because "without new sources of revenue, [the Spurs] cannot pay the player salaries that would allow the team to keep winning."

In other words, the great seers of San Antonio, who can forecast a player's ability to succeed with phenomenal accuracy, who can tell that an obscure Argentinian and an unknown Belgian would vault them to heights unforeseen in the NBA, do not possess the ability to make a profit in a five-year-old stadium when they are the reigning NBA Champions?

This tells me two things:

1. The NBA structure must be horribly out of whack if the NBA Champs are struggling financially with a stadium that is a year older than my pre-school aged daughter; and

2. No matter how much money the City of Seattle throws away on a new Sonic Arena, within 5-10 years that building will be insufficient to meet the team's needs.

Call me a cynic, call me an oversimplifier of unbelievably complicated situations, but I am slowly reaching the boiling point for this arena situation. As far as I'm concerned, the NBA and their owners and their messed-up system can go jump in a lake. If you took all the sales taxes paid towards arenas and stadia in the past two decades, you could probably build a home for every poor family in the United States. Instead, we as citizens continue to subsidize these lying blackmailers out of fear of "losing our team." And yet, these owners and leagues continue to peddle flim-flam schemes that would make the Music Man proud, pawning one city off another, using one city's new toy arena as a threat to extort a new arena for themselves.

At what point do we say enough is enough?

[exstatic]

Actually, even with the improvements, the ATT Center still cost less than most of the other arenas in the league. I think we got it originally for ~ $175M. I think Staples cost about $375M.

You can bitch about public subsidies to major league sports teams, but it's kind of like bitching about gravity: it exists, and it isn't going anywhere. The city and the Sonics fans repeatedly told the franchise 'NO'. It's small wonder they're seeking greener pastures.

As long as the rental car tax pays for it, I have no beef. It's been a half decade. It probably does need some improvements to bring it up to the latest standards, and what better time to ask for it than after 3 championships in 5 years in that building?

[mathbzh]

If not for the Spurs nobody would know this city outside of the USA.
I don't know how much this exposition worth but it should have some positive financial consequences.
Be happy the salary cap exists. If not you would not have been able to keep Duncan+Ginobili+Parker in such a small market.

[Solid D]

Here is the link to Henry Abbott's article from ESPN True Hoop posted above:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-28-41/If-the-Spurs-Can-t-Make-Money---.html

[SequSpur]

I agree with this article 100%. When you pay Malik Rose 40 mill and Matt Bonner 3 mill a year, the out of control red flag has been raised. I'm done with going to the games. I'll accept freebies, but no way in hell I'll give them a cent.

[MajorMike]

I agree with this article 100%. When you pay Malik Rose 40 mill and Matt Bonner 3 mill a year, the out of control red flag has been raised. I'm done with going to the games. I'll accept freebies, but no way in hell I'll give them a cent.

Wow, I sure hope you are a girl, because you constantly act like one.

[SequSpur]

Wow, I sure hope you are a girl, because you constantly act like one.

That was random... how the fuck is me not wanting to spend my money on overpaid scrubs acting like a girl?

It's frickin reality homes.

[The Truth #6]

The Spurs are cheap. They've been consistent with that approach. Sometimes it motivates them to find underappreciated talent, other times it motivates them to ask for a ridiculous amount of money a few years after the arena was built. They know they won't get the number they want so they inflate it ridiculously and hope for something less. However by doing so they are making themselves look silly.

If the city is going to create tax schemes to fund the team then why the hell doesn't the city (the people) own a percentage of the team?

[saporvida]

I'm done with going to the games.

not me! i love going to the games... there's nothing better then sitting up close and watching the sport you've loved since you were a kid. nothing compares to being up front and in the action; not even a HD 100in could compare.

i can't wait till '08 finals... i guess i will have to be a bit nicer to diaw this time around.

[exstatic]

I agree with this article 100%. When you pay Malik Rose 40 mill and Matt Bonner 3 mill a year, the out of control red flag has been raised. I'm done with going to the games. I'll accept freebies, but no way in hell I'll give them a cent.
Actually, they didn't pay Malik $40M, they just signed the contract and paid 1.5 years of it. NY stupidly is paying balance.

Oh, and you seriously need to get your panties out of your crack about Bonner. $3M is about half the average league yearly salary. Just a reminder, but you've been horribly, disgracefully wrong before: Manure.

[ajh18]

The Spurs are cheap. They've been consistent with that approach. Sometimes it motivates them to find underappreciated talent, other times it motivates them to ask for a ridiculous amount of money a few years after the arena was built. They know they won't get the number they want so they inflate it ridiculously and hope for something less. However by doing so they are making themselves look silly.

If the city is going to create tax schemes to fund the team then why the hell doesn't the city (the people) own a percentage of the team?


Umm, because other cities would be willing to create tax structures and/or pay for arena construction WITHOUT owning part of the team? And if Sa demanded to own it, the owner would simply move to one of those cities?

[Brutalis]

Okay what's sad to begin with is after 5 years our arena is old. That's messed up... 5 years shouldn't be a long time for a building or its toys unless SA went fuggin cheap on the innerds.

[Fabbs]

Actually, even with the improvements, the ATT Center still cost less than most of the other arenas in the league. I think we got it originally for ~ $175M. I think Staples cost about $375M.
Lakers, Clippers and hockeys Kings are occupants.
Off nights LAs metro population of 14 million could have something profittable at Staples every night of the week. Not in San Antonio.

But i agree with your above post that its like gravity. Greedy owners and politcians are here to stay until forcibly removed.

[T Park]

As long as the rental car tax pays for it, I have no beef. It's been a half decade. It probably does need some improvements to bring it up to the latest standards, and what better time to ask for it than after 3 championships in 5 years in that building?


yuppers.




Okay what's sad to begin with is after 5 years our arena is old. That's messed up... 5 years shouldn't be a long time for a building or its toys unless SA went fuggin cheap on the innerds.


To be honest, compared to other NBA arenas that I've seen, the ATT is pretty plain.

I mean in the last couple years its gotten good updates such as the LCDs on the walls and the LCD additions to the "lighthouse"


Things advance, things need updating. If anyone thinks an arena can just sit there now a days for a couple years and not need updates, sorry wrongo.



BTW Sequ,


you've said it a million times. We've got it. you prefer not to pay to see winning basketball.


Good riddance, adios.

[Brutalis]

.. then you might be a redneck.


?

[Kori Ellis]

I don't get why the article/thread is entitled "If the Spurs Can't Make Money..." They are making money, they just would like to keep making money :)

But professional sports franchises don't pony up the money to upgrade their arenas - that's done through taxes. And most arenas need major upgrades every 5-10 years. It's pretty commonplace. Car rental and hotel tax is making money off San Antonio tourists, not San Antonians. So I don't get why San Antonians would be against it.

[picnroll]

Isn't there some ethical obligation for wealthy individuals to buy a sports franchise and be sure to lose money on the investment so that SequSpur can have cheap entertainment?

If not SequSpur is going to have to take the moral stand of only mooching tickets.

[T Park]

Isn't there some ethical obligation for wealthy individuals to buy a sports franchise and be sure to lose money on the investment so that SequSpur can have cheap entertainment?


Didn't get the memo?

Its illegal and a sin to be rich in this country anymore.

Thought you knew. Eh...

[SequSpur]

Isn't there some ethical obligation for wealthy individuals to buy a sports franchise and be sure to lose money on the investment so that SequSpur can have cheap entertainment?

If not SequSpur is going to have to take the moral stand of only mooching tickets.

Cheap? They are paying Bonner 3 mill to sit on the fucking bench. I ain't donating to their cause. F..... k that....

I have HD, I don't need to buy HD for the ATT center.... fuck em...

[Buddy Holly]

What I don't understand, and this is just me being bored, but if schools own, finance and maintain their school athletic facilities why isn't the same way for professional teams and whatever city they use as their home base. Have the city finance, build and maintain an arena.

[Booharv]

Cheap? They are paying Bonner 3 mill to sit on the fucking bench. I ain't donating to their cause. F..... k that....

I have HD, I don't need to buy HD for the ATT center.... fuck em...

I agree that Bonner sucks, but 3 million isn't that much in today's NBA.

[SequSpur]

What I don't understand, and this is just me being bored, but if schools own, finance and maintain their school athletic facilities why isn't the same way for professional teams and whatever city they use as their home base. Have the city finance, build and maintain an arena.

cuz we need sidewalks, roads, raspa stands and city workers ding dong.

[SequSpur]

I agree that Bonner sucks, but 3 million isn't that much in today's NBA.

Scola got 3 million and he is Bonner X 1 million. Look Bonner was worth the minifukinmum. They straight up overpaid his ass and they are handed to their fans... afuckingain.

[Louie Vega]

I say tear that piece of shit down and build a new one THE RIGHT WAY!!!! The Toyota Center and American Airlines put the At&t to shame! The Spurs should be playing in a first class arena!

[T Park]

Scola got 3 million and he is Bonner X 1 million. Look Bonner was worth the minifukinmum. They straight up overpaid his ass and they are handed to their fans... afuckingain.

Then don't watch. Don't go.

Period. and STFU already.

[Buddy Holly]

cuz we need sidewalks, roads, raspa stands and city workers ding dong.

Hey ding dong, the city owns and financed the current CC hotel under construction. They own and finance many things. :rolleyes Those things don't take away money from the actual city budget... Did you happen to know this or are you too busy working on your angry midget routine?

Again, like I said it was a thought that came to be while bored.

[T Park]

Hey ding dong, the city owns and financed the current CC hotel under construction. They own and finance many things

The city had a great shot at it, but the great Howie the Duck shot it down and all the rest cause "we just cant create another tax"

[Mark in Austin]

My problem is that the Spurs aren't being intellectually honest about this. Rising salaries are tied directly to the rising cap. The cap is rising due to increased revenue from the new broadcast and digital rights deals the NBA struck/extended several months ago.

The AT&T Center allows the Spurs to be profitable already. The Spurs want upgrades to become more profitable, not to stop from losing money and finally become profitable. That was the case when they were in the dome and was a truly legit reason to dump the dome and build the AT&T Center. But it is not the case now.

I'm not even saying I couldn't be convinced that the upgrades should happen. All I'm asking for is for the Spurs organization to be honest about why they want them.

"Without these upgrades, we can't compete" is simply not true. In an era where the luxury tax has brought team payrolls closer to even across different market sizes than they have been in at least 20 years, the Spurs are in the most solid financial situation and can compete better for free agents now than at any other point in the team's history.

[Crow]

Mark is right, the Spurs want to be more profitable.

It is only an outside estimate but Forbes reported the Spurs made about $12 million profit in 05-06. Last season's data will be available in January.

[Fabbs]

Mark is right, the Spurs want to be more profitable.

It is only an outside estimate but Forbes reported the Spurs made about $12 million profit in 05-06. Last season's data will be available in January.
Ah and what is the increase in the value of the team since Holt bought vs today. Which of course when he sells the team he will pay back the taxpayer loans, right? :rolleyes

[mavs>spurs2]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77584

Looks like they found another way to make money

[ChumpDumper]

Folks are free to not be fans anymore.

[The Truth #6]

So if people who live in San Antonio don't want all the tourist tax revenue to go to the Spurs, then they shouldn't be fans anymore? That seems like a perversion of the discussion. There are plenty of things the money could be used for that would benefit the city as a whole, and bring more tourists to town to help perpetuate the tourist tax.

Personally I think the arena will be a ghost town in 6 years when Pop and Tim have left town so its hard to see why we need to invest a lot of money in an arena on a part of town that doesn't generate any ancillary income for the neighborhood.

I think Holt is getting what he can so he can sell as high as possible when the Dynasty ends.

Not wanting to hand over welfare money to rebuild the arena shouldn't be a reason to question one's fandom.

[da_suns_fan__]

Spurs fans should take a long good look in the mirror.

How many playoff games did the Spurs fail to sell out this year?

Was there a rodeo on the same night or something?

[ChumpDumper]

So if people who live in San Antonio don't want all the tourist tax revenue to go to the Spurs, then they shouldn't be fans anymore? That seems like a perversion of the discussion.Not really. It's a way of sending a message to the team if you are really pissed off.
There are plenty of things the money could be used for that would benefit the city as a whole, and bring more tourists to town to help perpetuate the tourist tax.I agree, but if you want to keep an NBA team in town this is what happens.


Personally I think the arena will be a ghost town in 6 years when Pop and Tim have left town so its hard to see why we need to invest a lot of money in an arena on a part of town that doesn't generate any ancillary income for the neighborhood.So you're saying we never should have built it in the first place and should have let the Spurs leave town. This is a valid opinion.


I think Holt is getting what he can so he can sell as high as possible when the Dynasty ends.He would have done well to sell before the ink was dry on the arena deal. Probably even before that.


Not wanting to hand over welfare money to rebuild the arena shouldn't be a reason to question one's fandom.I'm not questioning your fandom, I'm proposing a course of action. I can root for the Anaheim or St. Louis Spurs, I'd just be going to fewer games each season.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs fans should take a long good look in the mirror.I see four championship trophies.