Biggest suprise of the 2007 season?

[T Park]

One of mine is Sammy's good year. 20 homers and 91 RBIs????

Who would've thunk it..

[Phenomanul]

Yeah... and it seems like he's been clean....


MLB stuff.

[T Park]

:lol

The curse of multitabbing

[K-State Spur]

One of mine is Sammy's good year. 20 homers and 91 RBIs????

Who would've thunk it..

I'll put that as my top surprise as well - since I made many a post saying that there was little chance that Sosa would be decent. He's really just been league average (.774 OPS, 98 OPS+), but I never gave him credit for being capable of doing anything near that.

How about a couple of Royals pitchers as well?

Gil Meche - Just 9-12, but a very respectable 3.70 ERA (129 ERA+), 1.3 WHIP, and almost 7 Ks per 9 innings. This was a guy that was routinely nailed by the media as the worst contract of the offseason, and now it is looking to be one of the better pitching contracts handed out - much better than the deals given to Zito and Schmidt.

Brian Bannister - How many of you know that he is 12-9 with a 3.61 ERA (132 ERA+)? He still doesn't miss enough bats and needs to improve his K/BB rate (under 2), but he's been more than solid and there is little doubt that the Royals fleeced him from the mets giving up just Ambiorix Burgos.

[T Park]

Yeah Meche would've put the Cardinals in the playoffs.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Rick Ankiel :lmao

[T Park]

:lol Padres

[Marklar MM]

Carlos Pena anyone

[TheSanityAnnex]

:lol PadresWow stupid fuck, you really got me there. Considering we are .5 out of first, while leading the wild card, and are going for our third straight NL West, I fail to see what is surprising you. Care to explain what you're laughing about?


P.S.- Thanks for taking Ankiel "the story of the year" out of your sig.

[DOMINATOR]

Carlos Pena anyone
add Dmitri Young to that list.

[Erect as a Bull]

I would say Boston actually having a 14 1/2 game lead in the East at one point in the season.
Fucking priceless :lol

[HOOKED ON PHONICS]

Carlos Pena anyone

A sentence must end with a punctuation mark. Maybe you should have used HOOKED ON PHONICS.

[Thunder Dan]

Fausto Carmona hands down. In 2006 he was 1-10 and this year he has 18 wins and the lowest ERA in baseball for a starter.

[Horry For 3!]

Fausto Carmona hands down. In 2006 he was 1-10 and this year he has 18 wins and the lowest ERA in baseball for a starter.
Carmona's ERA is 3.03, that isn't the lowest in the MLB for a starter.

[Thunder Dan]

sorry American League

1. Fausto Carmona, Cle 3.03
2. John Lackey, LAA 3.11
3. Dan Haren, Oak 3.12
4. Josh Beckett, Bos 3.14
5. Erik Bedard, Bal 3.16

[Cry Havoc]

How can you not be surprised by the Indians vying for the best record in the league?

Prince Fielder hitting 50 was pretty shocking. Milwaukee has a bright future ahead of them.

And how about Moises Alou?

[K-State Spur]

How can you not be surprised by the Indians vying for the best record in the league?


actually, i picked the Indians to win it all this year. they have the best young lineup in the league, it was just a question of whether they would get a couple of arms to help out sabathia.

[tlongII]

I'd have to go with the Indians. I'd bet a dollar that Sosa's on HGH.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Bucholz throwing a no hitter in his third start.

Borowski having 40+ saves.

The Mariners hanging around as long as they did.

[Thunder Dan]

Bucholz throwing a no hitter in his third start.

Borowski having 40+ saves.

The Mariners hanging around as long as they did.

Borowski blew his 7th save last night

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

While I don't know that it's the biggest surprise, the Colorado Rockies playing meaningful baseball in the final week of the season with almost all homegrown talent is good for baseball.

Other good surprises:

Ryan Braun.
The number of milestones surpassed this season.
Cubs and Yankees with playoff hopes after really poor starts/points in the season.
Fausto Carmona.
Padres.
30-3.
Many, many others.

[slayermin]

Best - Carmona and Fielder. Both have had incredible years and continue to do so.

Worst - Chris Capuano and Dontrelle Willis. Brewers lost like 20 straight games when Capuano started. Willis pitched a couple of good games this year but his era is 5.20 and whips is at 1.58. Dontrelle has dominating stuff. Maybe he needs a change of scenery.

[misterx91578]

dbacks

[Cry Havoc]

Uh. New biggest surprise. One of the most titanic collapses in MLB history. The Mets just blew a 7 game lead in under 20 games. Unfathomable.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Zambrano not winning the cy young :lmao

[Vinnie_Johnson]

Mets melting down a 7 game lead with 14 to play.

[T Park]

Wow stupid fuck, you really got me there. Considering we are .5 out of first, while leading the wild card, and are going for our third straight NL West, I fail to see what is surprising you. Care to explain what you're laughing about?


Wow three division championships

Whew, yeah those are fantastic :lmao


Win 1 ring, let alone 10. then You can run smack at a Cardinal fan.

Also, win more than 1 game in 3 series vs the Cardinals too :lol

[FromWayDowntown]

Win 1 ring, let alone 10. then You can run smack at a Cardinal fan.

I'm curious -- does that mean that Cardinals fan can't run smack at Yankees fan?

[T Park]

Not much no.

Yankee Fan has ownage of alot.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Wow three division championships

Whew, yeah those are fantastic :lmao


Win 1 ring, let alone 10. then You can run smack at a Cardinal fan.

Also, win more than 1 game in 3 series vs the Cardinals too :lol Considering the topic of this thread, your reply "padres :lmao" was laughable. Why would it be a surprise that a team that's won two straight division titles has a chance at winning a third straight title?

I find it more surprising that a team that is fresh off of a World Series victory isn't making the playoffs. Are you not surprised after last season that your fat ass is going to be sitting on the couch watching every team not named the Cardinals play in October?

[J.T.]

Considering the topic of this thread, your reply "padres :lmao" was laughable. Why would it be a surprise that a team that's won two straight division titles has a chance at winning a third straight title?

I find it more surprising that a team that is fresh off of a World Series victory isn't making the playoffs. Are you not surprised after last season that your fat ass is going to be sitting on the couch watching every team not named the Cardinals play in October?

Baseball must have a long playoff if they take every team but one to the postseason.

[T Park]

I find it more surprising that a team that is fresh off of a World Series victory isn't making the playoffs. Are you not surprised after last season that your fat ass is going to be sitting on the couch watching every team not named the Cardinals play in October?

after losing a hall of fame third baseman and a Cy Young ace pitcher in the first game of the season, not one bit.


I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If they had had Carpenter all year, the Cardinals would be sitting at 90 wins and preparing to play whoever in the playoffs.

Carpenter, Wainwright, Looper would've gotten em to the NCLS, but not likely to the World Series.


BTW Jackass, I've done my best to be civil to you and you've thrown it in my face, so your BS ripping on Ankiel for no reason, is the reason I said Padres.


'The team that really suprised me?

The Detroit Tigers.


No clue what happened to those guys...

[DarkReign]

'The team that really suprised me?

The Detroit Tigers.


No clue what happened to those guys...

Injuries. Lots of them. Not just two guys.

Rogers missed 5 months.
Zumaya missed 5 months.
Rodney missed 2 months.
Sheffield missed 1.5 months.
Bonderman melted down after the ASG (said he was hurt, who knows?)
Robertson, the guy teams used to load their lineup with Righties because Lefties couldnt hit him for shit (like 0.187 BAA), became ultra-hittable by everyone.

All that is just the pitching. Are these excuses? I guess, dont really know. Its reality is all I know. They'll be back next year and the year after and the year after and the year....

Unlike the Indians. This is their one chance at the World Series. After this year, theyre not even the same team. Penny-pinching owners.

[Marklar MM]

^what he said

[FromWayDowntown]

after losing a hall of fame third baseman

Rolen a Hall-of-Famer?

:lmao

Did I miss that day when the Cardinals lured George Brett out of retirement?

[T Park]

Look at how many gold gloves hes won, and come talk to me.

I believe hes only topped by Brooks Robinson in number of gold gloves won.


But that wouldn't fit your new childish agenda.

[T Park]

Rolen has a career .283 batting average as well as a .372 on-base percentage and a .507 slugging percentage. He has 1,558 Hits, 261 Home runs, and 1,012 RBIs, as well as having scored 954 Runs (as of August 31, 2007).

He went 4-for-5 with two singles, a double, and his 261st home run against the Milwaukee Brewers on August 15, 2007.

He played in his 1,500th game (5,480 ABs) on August 22, 2007.

However, while Rolen is a fine hitter, it is his glove that attracts the most attention. In a twelve-year career, Rolen has won seven Gold Glove Awards. Only Hall of Famers Brooks Robinson (16) and Mike Schmidt (10) have more. Schmidt himself has said that Rolen is a better gloveman than he was, and many analysts and baseball experts agree

:lol

Yeah thats not a hall of fame player.

If Rolen is healthy for 3 more years, he will tie Schmidt with gold gloves, and his 283 batting average will more than likely stay the same, or go up next year after his clean up surgery.


Once again, sorry to bust on your childish agenda of wanting to for some reason hate on me and the Cardinals.

[T Park]

Injuries. Lots of them. Not just two guys.


The cardinals feel your pain .

[DOMINATOR]

sorry Tpark but i don't think Rolen will get in.

[T Park]

sorry Tpark but i don't think Rolen will get in.

He could finish potentially with 10 gold gloves and 350 home runs and a 280 BA and thats not a hall of famer?


The standards must have shot up recently

[Whisky Dog]

He could finish potentially with 10 gold gloves and 350 home runs and a 280 BA and thats not a hall of famer?


The standards must have shot up recently

The gold gloves are good, but that isn't a great HOF stat. The 280 average is exactly that - average. 350 HR is average. These days hitters have to have a combination of:

1) 500+ HR
2) .300+ career average
3) outstanding clutch ability and leadership leading directly to championships (i.e. Jeter)

Jim Thome has much better numbers than Rolen and I don't think he'll be a HOF unless he plays a lot longer and puts up more numbers, and he has 500+ HR. His problem is that he didn't really achieve anything great in his career and has flown completely under the radar for so long.

[DOMINATOR]

He could finish potentially with 10 gold gloves and 350 home runs and a 280 BA and thats not a hall of famer?


The standards must have shot up recently
yes they have... some 500 HR hitters wont make the cut.
media cares nothing about gold gloves.

[FromWayDowntown]

:lol

Yeah thats not a hall of fame player.

If Rolen is healthy for 3 more years, he will tie Schmidt with gold gloves, and his 283 batting average will more than likely stay the same, or go up next year after his clean up surgery.


Once again, sorry to bust on your childish agenda of wanting to for some reason hate on me and the Cardinals.

I couldn't care less about the Cardinals, but I do quarrel with bad arguments -- it's not personal. You took me to task last year for my honest opinion that the Cardinals would struggle in the post-season; why can't I argue with you about a difference of opinion concerning this year's Cardinals without making it personal. That you happen to be the primary Cardinals fan around here is the only reason it could even appear personal, and I assure you it's not.

As for the rest of your "argument," Gold Gloves have only rarely gotten a player into the Hall of Fame. I think that trend will slowly go away because Gold Gloves are becoming jokes in many instances -- that Andruw Jones continues winning Gold Gloves is evidence to me that the award has virtually no value anymore. I don't dispute that Rolen is a fine fielder, but I also don't think that Gold Gloves are a measure of his quality as a defender.

With that said, I think that the Hall of Fame in coming years will be a haven for guys with huge offensive numbers and only for the most spectacular of the all-glove, no-hit guys. You'd better be a dominant fielder (on the Ozzie Smith level) to get into the Hall on the basis of your fielding. For all that Rolen does, he's not that.

[Thunder Dan]

if there is a question about Thome getting in, then Rolen is not a lock

[K-State Spur]

If they had had Carpenter all year, the Cardinals would be sitting at 90 wins and preparing to play whoever in the playoffs.



Nah. Carpenter, as good as he is, is not worth 12-13 wins by himself.

Johan Santana - at his best - is only worth slightly less than 11.

[K-State Spur]

He could finish potentially with 10 gold gloves and 350 home runs and a 280 BA and thats not a hall of famer?


The standards must have shot up recently

350 HRs and a .280 average definitely are NOT good enough for the HOF nowadays.

The 10 gold gloves make it an argument (although the award has become a joke* - even if Rolen is one of the few deserving). But outside of Brooks and Ozzie, few players have made it into the hall with a huge push from their defense. And those 2 guys had defining defensive highlight reels that everybody can remember - Rolen makes all the plays, but not many non-cardinal fans can conjure up specific defensive memories of him.


*When Palmeiro gets a gold glove for playing less than 1/4 of the season in the field and Jeter is about to get his 3rd gold glove in a row - the award should be completely invalidated and discontinued. It's a joke.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

He could finish potentially with 10 gold gloves and 350 home runs and a 280 BA and thats not a hall of famer?


The standards must have shot up recently

Standards have always been tough for 3B. That's why there is only 10 in the HOF.

Chipper Jones will probably go to the HOF.

Rolen has no shot.

[K-State Spur]

Standards have always been tough for 3B. That's why there is only 10 in the HOF.

Chipper Jones will probably go to the HOF.

Rolen has no shot.

it's actually occurred to me that those numbers are remarkably similar to those of Ron Santo - who has continually been overlooked.

Santo only has 5 gold gloves, but he put up his offensive stats in an era in which it was FAR FAR more difficult to do so than Rolen's.

Santo was also arguably the best 3b of his era (I'll take Brooks, but I can see the debate). Thanks to Chipper and now A-Rod, that's not the case with Rolen.

[T Park]

Nah. Carpenter, as good as he is, is not worth 12-13 wins by himself.


Uh, lets see, Carpenter, a Cy young, pitching games instead of guys like brad Thompson or Randy Keisler or others wouldn't have won them more games?

:lol oooooooooooooooooooooooook

[K-State Spur]

Uh, lets see, Carpenter, a Cy young, pitching games instead of guys like brad Thompson or Randy Keisler or others wouldn't have won them more games?

:lol oooooooooooooooooooooooook


In his CY YOUNG SEASON, Chris Carpenter had a WARP3 (wins above replacement player) of 8. Now, that's a very good number. But it's not 12 or 13. Fans tend to vastly over-estimate how much an individual player can swing the overall record.

For example, since the Cardinals didn't lose EVERY game that Thompson pitched - in fact, they won more than half of his 17 starts - it's unfair to expect more than a handful of extra wins with Carpenter, even if he is the best pitcher in the NL and would put up much superior stats.

[dallaskd]

Marlon Byrd

[DOMINATOR]

In his CY YOUNG SEASON, Chris Carpenter had a WARP3 (wins above replacement player) of 8. Now, that's a very good number. But it's not 12 or 13. Fans tend to vastly over-estimate how much an individual player can swing the overall record.

For example, since the Cardinals didn't lose EVERY game that Thompson pitched - in fact, they won more than half of his 17 starts - it's unfair to expect more than a handful of extra wins with Carpenter, even if he is the best pitcher in the NL and would put up much superior stats.
how many times did the team win when carpenter pitch? dont just take the pitchers W/L. because carpenter could have left say 4 games in a tie and the cards bullpen ends up winning. plus not having an ace taxes your bullpen quite a bit.

[T Park]

Carpenter won 16 games last year.

Lets say he had a bad year this year and wins 13.


The cardinals are 5 games up on Chicago and resting pujols, edmonds and others for the playoffs and lining up carpenter for Game 1 vs the D Backs.

[SrA Husker]

coulda, woulda shoulda. how many wins would you get if you had a sober manager?

[T Park]

The manager who has 2 more WS wins than the Cubs have in the last 100 years?

[SrA Husker]

nice job throwing in a fact useless to this season.

[T Park]

nice job throwing in a fact useless to this season.

:lol

same as you

[K-State Spur]

how many times did the team win when carpenter pitch? dont just take the pitchers W/L. because carpenter could have left say 4 games in a tie and the cards bullpen ends up winning. plus not having an ace taxes your bullpen quite a bit.

look up WARP3, it goes far beyond a pitcher's individual W/L record - which is a VASTLY flawed stats.

[K-State Spur]

Carpenter won 16 games last year.

Lets say he had a bad year this year and wins 13.


The cardinals are 5 games up on Chicago and resting pujols, edmonds and others for the playoffs and lining up carpenter for Game 1 vs the D Backs.

that only works if you assume that the Cards won ZERO of the replacement starts for Carpenter - which clearly was not the case.

it's bad logic by bad logic's standards.

[DOMINATOR]

look up WARP3, it goes far beyond a pitcher's individual W/L record - which is a VASTLY flawed stats.
thanks for the WARP3 tip.
and W/L to me is only 2% of how good a pitcher is and 0% in the AL because the W/L is all how your teammates perform.

[Cry Havoc]

Carpenter won 16 games last year.

Lets say he had a bad year this year and wins 13.


The cardinals are 5 games up on Chicago and resting pujols, edmonds and others for the playoffs and lining up carpenter for Game 1 vs the D Backs.

Annnnd guess what? Now you're not in the playoffs.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Carpenter won 16 games last year.

Lets say he had a bad year this year and wins 13.


The cardinals are 5 games up on Chicago and resting pujols, edmonds and others for the playoffs and lining up carpenter for Game 1 vs the D Backs.

http://www.propagandacritic.com/images/logic.jpg

[T Park]

:lol

you guys can down it all you want.

Fact is, if Carpenter had pitched all season, the Cardinals win the division.

[K-State Spur]

well played. never let facts or stats get in the way of a homer argument.

seriously, if the Cards won 10 of Thompson's 17 starts - are you saying that if Carpenter had been healthy - the Cardinals would have won 23 of those 17 starts?

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

:lol

you guys can down it all you want.

Fact is, if Carpenter had pitched all season, the Cardinals win the division.


Fact is, if Kenny Rogers would have been healthy and pitched all year, the Tigers would have gone 162-0.

Facts are fun!

[SrA Husker]

Biggest surprise? For me it's the Mets sudden collapse with the Rockies great September. More so the Mets - I knew the Rockies had it in 'em.

[Jimcs50]

Biggest surprise has got to be Arizona. Nobody picked them to win division.

[Thunder Dan]

how the Yankees have a $195 million dollar payroll and only won the Wild Card and 94 games. Thats amazing

[K-State Spur]

How the Yankees have used to creative accounting to make it look like their payroll is only 195 million - now that's amazing!

[FirebatMIV]

Philadelphia and Colorado both ending the season on an unmatched tear. That was amazing and completely unexpected. The Mets had a 93% chance of making the playoffs!

[T Park]

Philadelphia and Colorado both ending the season on an unmatched tear. That was amazing and completely unexpected. The Mets had a 93% chance of making the playoffs!

Billy Beane is that you?