GS Warriors waive disgruntled Jasikevicius

[CaptainLate]

[ In talking recently with ESPN's Chris Sheridan, Golden State Warriors guard Sarunas Jasikevicius said that he wanted to play for a team "that plays more European. You know my style of basketball is more team-oriented, and I hope to find a team that actually passes the ball and plays team ball."

He also said that he's "sitting by the phone and waiting" to be traded. ]

[ OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) -- The Golden State Warriors waived Sarunas Jasikevicius on Thursday, agreeing to a contract buyout with the disgruntled guard.

Jasikevicius joined the Warriors along with Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington in an eight-player trade with Indiana last January, but the Lithuanian point guard never cracked coach Don Nelson's rotation.

He averaged 4.3 points and 2.3 assists for Golden State during the regular season, but played sparingly during the final six weeks. Jasikevicius then played only seven total minutes during the Warriors' run to the second round of the playoffs.

"We think this was in the best interest of both parties," said Chris Mullin, the Warriors' top personnel executive. "As a competitor, Sarunas obviously would like to have an opportunity to play a significant role on a team. This could potentially open up other avenues that will allow him to pursue that opportunity." ]


Weren't we the original NBA team interested in him yrs ago? Well, better late than never since he is a team player :clap who wants to play on a pass-rich team. Better him over JVaughan, who couldn't hit a three :madrun if left wide open like the Little General.

[whottt]

Catch 22...

On the one hand, I love this guys attitude and he is a fearless shooter...

OTOH...he doesn't have the athleticism to play in the NBA. This was painfully obvious with him before he ever stepped foot on an NBA court.

You know...I like the idea of a fearless shooter coming off the bench, always have, you can never tell when you will need a guy like that and with Duncan, they can do a lot of damage in a little bit of time...but....

Pop won't play him.

And lastly...I don't think he's even shot particularly well in the NBA when he has been on the court.


I like his firey attitude...I just don't think he has much else going for him, including the ability to knock down big NBA shots, or the athleticism to be on the court to get the chance...especially if Pop is coaching.

[T Park]

Better him over JVaughan


uh, no.

[Darkwaters]

I take Saras in a heartbeat over Udrih.

[DaDakota]

I think he just needs a chance on a team that plays his game, cuts, picks and rolls, team ball.

I believe San Antonio would benefit from having him backup Parker.

[stéphane]

Catch 22...

On the one hand, I love this guys attitude and he is a fearless shooter...

OTOH...he doesn't have the athleticism to play in the NBA. This was painfully obvious with him before he ever stepped foot on an NBA court.

You know...I like the idea of a fearless shooter coming off the bench, always have, you can never tell when you will need a guy like that and with Duncan, they can do a lot of damage in a little bit of time...but....

Pop won't play him.

And lastly...I don't think he's even shot particularly well in the NBA when he has been on the court.


I like his firey attitude...I just don't think he has much else going for him, including the ability to knock down big NBA shots, or the athleticism to be on the court to get the chance...especially if Pop is coaching.

Saras is a great passer and a great creator off the high pick'n roll. He really can shoot the ball too. Not to mention his amazing will to win and natural leadership.
With the clock ticking down I'd prefer 10times having the ball in his hands than in Vaughn's...

[Indazone]

Hey he can't be any worse than Steve Kerr

[ploto]

He's going back to Europe.

[hater]

he's 100x better than Beno even as slow as he is.

he would be a great 3rd string guard. Vaughns defense still makes Vaughn more valuable.

[SKINNYPIMP210]

I'd Take Him For Sure As A Back-up Pg. Isn't He Tearing It Up Overseas???

[MoSpur]

Invited him for a workout

[SKINNYPIMP210]

Invited him for a workout

THE SPURS DID? ALREADY!?

[Indazone]

I still say you guys need rafer alston, we'll take him for cash. for sale cheap!!

[wildbill2u]

I still say you guys need rafer alston, we'll take him for cash. for sale cheap!!
Get back in touch when his (pending) prison term is completed :rolleyes

[phxspurfan]

How can a guy who makes millions per year be disgruntled? This is getting ridiculous. Send them all back to Europe.

[ShoogarBear]

On the one hand, I love this guys attitude and he is a fearless shooter...
What's the difference between a fearless shooter and a chucker?

[Phenomanul]

What's the difference between a fearless shooter and a chucker?

The difference between Steve Kerr and Van Exel.... one was less disruptive to the offense, but wasn't afraid to take the big shot when it presented itself.

[whottt]

What's the difference between a fearless shooter and a chucker?

I'm glad you asked that...lots of minor differences...but the main one is that a fearless shooter makes the important ones...and a chucker doesn't....he just chucks.

[whottt]

The difference between Steve Kerr and Van Exel.... one was less disruptive to the offense, but wasn't afraid to take the big shot when it presented itself.



I wouldn't classify Steve Kerr as a fearless shooter...and I wouldn't exactly classify Van Exel at the end of his career as a chucker...

NVE's last year in the league he was just old...




Finley's the chucker....

[whottt]

What's the difference between a fearless shooter and a chucker?



Another difference...


You could say that all chuckers are fearless shooters, but not all fearless shooters are chuckers.


And another...if you have two fearless shooters...

The guy you actually want to shoot it is the fearless shooter...the guy who makes you go oh shit is the chucker.

[ShoogarBear]

Finley's the chucker....You knew where I was going. :lol

[Phenomanul]

I wouldn't classify Steve Kerr as a fearless shooter...and I wouldn't exactly classify Van Exel at the end of his career as a chucker...

NVE's last year in the league he was just old...




Finley's the chucker....


While I understand your point.... how would Kerr not be classified as a fearless shooter? Especially given your latest definition....


The guy you actually want to shoot it is the fearless shooter...the guy who makes you go oh shit is the chucker.

Sans '99 it never bothered me in the slightest to see Kerr take a shot in a close 4th quarter game (while doning the silver and black of course).

[ShoogarBear]

If I can speak for whottt (Lord help me), I think his definiton of a "fearless shooter" requires that he take a fair number of bad shots, but hits more than his share of big ones.

Kerr didn't take many bad shots.

This guy, however, qualifies:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/playoffs/news/2003/06/15/jackson_sider_ap/t1_jackson_ap.jpg

[Phenomanul]

If I can speak for whottt (Lord help me), I think his definiton of a "fearless shooter" requires that he take a fair number of bad shots, but hits more than his share of big ones.

Kerr didn't take many bad shots.

This guy, however, qualifies:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/playoffs/news/2003/06/15/jackson_sider_ap/t1_jackson_ap.jpg


I see. I think someone like Jackson personifies the difference then.

[Bruno]

Word is that Jasikevicius will sign with Panathinaikos as soon as tomorrow.

[ashbeeigh]

Word is that Jasikevicius will sign with Panathinaikos as soon as tomorrow.

For a second there I thought it said "rumor is" Jaskikevicius will aign with Panathinaakos. But we all know how those rumors fly around. :lol

[Obstructed_View]

With the clock ticking down I'd prefer 10times having the ball in his hands than in Vaughn's...
With Parker, Manu and Duncan on this team, if you've got the ball in Vaughn's hands with the clock ticking down, I hope you get fired.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

It true. it be all overs the Hellas TV.

Saras to be signs with Panathinaikos Greens.

He be starts play maker then 3D Octopus Diamantidis to be point forward.

Becirovic probable be shooting guard and then Spanoulis take old role he always usual have with Maroussi and Panathinaikos of 6th man bes best 6th man all Europe plays play maker and shooting guard.

Vujanic be Saras backup and he play main to be scores and makes change of quickness at play maker. Saras be main run offense and passes then Diamantidis do this with second team after Saras be bench.

Also Spanoulis and Diamantidis all defends other guards so Saras not have to worry on defense.

Every people be alreadys say Panathinaikos greatest of all team ever put all together history of Euroleague.

There be's now 12 NBA equals player on team firsts in Europe.

[Pero]

Who`s on the team? Other than Sani, Span, Saras, Diamantidis and Vujanic. (which is a helluva backcourt)

[whottt]

Shoogar and Phenomanul...


The reason I wouldn't consider Kerr a fearless shooter is because I wouldn't exactly describe Kerr as a guy who wanted to just shoot the big shots regardless...


He'd shoot them if open, and he'd make them...but he just never struck me as the guy begging for the ball in that situation.


I remember his final year...I believe it was in the finals against the Nets when he had the big game...in fact I'm certain that's when it was because Kidd was doubling Duncan off him...


Anyway... Kidd kept doubling and leaving Kerr open and Duncan kept passing the ball back, but Kerr kept passing it back to Duncan...either because Kidd hadn't commited or because his feet weren't set...I dunno, all I know is he wouldn't shoot the three...during one of the passbacks he moved in to the 2 point line(and hit it) for the feed...


You could actually see Duncan getting visibly frustrated because he wanted Kerr in the game, and he wanted him taking that shot...


That just doesn't strike me as a fearless shooter mindset....fearless shooter is going to freaking shoot it if he is halfway open and is not going to be overly concerned with lining up the perfect shot or moving in for a closer shot when open.

This does not mean Kerr wasn't clutch, because he was...very clutch, not just with the Spurs but with Jordan and Bulls...but he's just not the guy looking to shoot the big shot under any circumstances...

Very similar to Barry actually.


Now Shane Heal....there's a fearless shooter and IMO, he'd hit them.


Not sold on Sarunas....

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Who`s on the team? Other than Sani, Span, Saras, Diamantidis and Vujanic. (which is a helluva backcourt)

This be come from translate of PAO fan site



Panathinaikos Athens Greens 2007-2008

Starters

Point Guard

Sarunas Jasikevicius Lithuania 6-4 200
NBA: Undrafted
Indiana Pacers 2005-2007

Individual Awards

Spanish League MVP 2003
Eurobasket MVP 2003
Euroleague Final Four MVP 2005

Championships

2-Time Spanish Champion
2001, 2003
2-Time Spanish Cup Champion
2001, 2003
2-Time Israeli Champion
2004, 2005
2-Time Israeli Cup Champion
2004, 2005
3-Time Euroleague Champion
2003, 2004, 2005
European Champion Lithuania 2003

Shooting Guard

Sani Becirovic Slovenia 6-5 200
NBA: Drafted #46 Denver Nuggets 2003

Individual Awards

EuroCup Scoring Champion 2005
Greek All Star Game 3 Point Champion 2007

Championships

Slovenian Champion 2001
2-Time Slovenian Cup Champion
2000, 2001
Italian Cup Champion 2002
Italian Super Cup Champion 2005
Greek Champion 2007
Greek Cup Champion 2007
Euroleage Champion 2007

Point Forward

Dimitris Diamantidis Greece 6-5 195

Individual Awards

3 time Euroleague Defender of Year
2004, 2005, 2006
2 time Greek League championship MVP 2004, 2006
Euroleague Final Four MVP 2007

Championships

3-Time Greek Champion
2005, 2006, 2007
3-Time Greek Champion Cup
2005, 2006, 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007
European Champion Greece 2005

Power Forward

Mike Batiste USA 6-8 225

Arizona State University 1999

NBA: Undrafted
Memphis Grizzlies 2002-2003

Individual Awards

PAC-10 Blocked Shots Leader 1998
First Team PAC-10 1999

Championships

5-Time Greek Champion
2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
4-Time Greek Cup Champion
2003, 2005, 2006, 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007

Power Forward/Center

Kostas Tsartsaris Greece 6-10 245

Championships

5-Time Greek Champion 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
4-Time Greek Cup Champion 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007
European Champion Greece 2005

Bench6th Man

Combo Guard

Vassilis Spanoulis Greece 6-4 205

NBA: Drafted #50 Dallas Mavericks 2004
Houston Rockets 2006-2007

Individual Awards

FIBA Europe Most Improved Player 2004
EuroCup Rookie of Year 2004
EuroCup 6th Man of Year 2005
Euroleague Rookie of Year 2006
Euroleague 6th Man of Year 2006

Championships

Greek Champion 2006
Greek Cup Champion 2006
European Champion Greece 2005

Point Guard

Milos Vujanic Serbia 6-3 195

NBA: Drafted #35 New York Knicks 2002

Individual Awards

Euroleague Scoring Champion 2003

Championships

2-Time Serbian Champion
2002, 2003
Serbian Cup Champion 2002
Italian Cup Champion 2005
Greek Champion 2007
Greek Cup Champion 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007
World Champion Serbia 2002

Shooting Guard/Small Forward

Nikos Hatzivrettas Greece 6-6 205

Individual Awards

Greek League Scoring Champion 2002

Championships

Russian Champion 2003
4-Time Greek Champion
2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
3-Time Greek Cup Champion
2005, 2006, 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007
European Champion Greece 2005

Shooting Guard/Small Forward

Kennedy Winston USA 6-7 230

University of Alabama 2005

NBA: Undrafted

Individual Awards

SEC Scoring Champion 2005

2-Time All SEC First Team 2004, 2005

Team

Led University of Alabama to NCAA Division I Elite Eight.

Small Forward/Power Forward

Fragiskos Alvertis Greece 6-9 225

Individual Awards

9-Time All Greek League

9-Time Greek All-Star

Championships

9-Time Greek Champion
1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
6-Time Greek Cup Champion
1993, 1996, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007
4-Time Euroleague Champion
1996, 2000, 2002, 2007

Power Forward/Center

Dimosthenis Dikoudis Greece 6-9 235

Individual Awards

Greek League Rookie of Year 1999
Greek League MVP 2002

Championships

Russian Champion 2005
Russian Cup Champion 2005
Saporta Cup Champion 2000
2-Time Greek Champion 2002, 2007
3-Time Greek Cup Champion
2001, 2002, 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007

Power Forward/Center

Andrija Zizic Croatia 6-10 235

Individual Awards

Adriatic League Rebounding Champion 2003

Championships

2-Time Croatian Champion 2003, 2004

Center

Dejan Tomasevic Serbia 6-10 240

Individual Awards

Euroleague MVP 2001
Serbian Championship MVP 1998

Championships

6-Time Serbian Champion
1993, 1994, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2001
2-Time Serbian Cup Champion 1999, 2001
Spanish Champion 2002
ULEB Cup Champion 2003
2-Time Greek Champion 2006, 2007
2-Time Greek Cup Champion 2006, 2007
Euroleague Champion 2007
2-Time European Champion Serbia
1995, 1997
2-Time World Champion Serbia
1998, 2002

[ploto]

You will see Sarunas playing in San Antonio in October...





for Panathinaikos. :D

[magic]

It's official: Jasikevicius signed a 2-year contract with Panathinaikos (10m$)

Panathinaikos Roster:

Jasikevicius-Vujanic
Spanoulis-Becirovic-Hatzivrettas
Diamantidis-Winston Kennedy-Perperoglou-Alvertis
Mike Batiste-Dikoudis-Zizic
Tsartsaris-Tomasevic

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It true. it be all overs the Hellas TV.

Saras to be signs with Panathinaikos Greens.

He be starts play maker then 3D Octopus Diamantidis to be point forward.

Becirovic probable be shooting guard and then Spanoulis take old role he always usual have with Maroussi and Panathinaikos of 6th man bes best 6th man all Europe plays play maker and shooting guard.

Vujanic be Saras backup and he play main to be scores and makes change of quickness at play maker. Saras be main run offense and passes then Diamantidis do this with second team after Saras be bench.

Also Spanoulis and Diamantidis all defends other guards so Saras not have to worry on defense.

Every people be alreadys say Panathinaikos greatest of all team ever put all together history of Euroleague.

There be's now 12 NBA equals player on team firsts in Europe.

Mate, it takes a while to translate your posts but I like them! :)

Let's go see Pana together next time I'm in Greece. :)

Is it hard to get tickets?

[mountainballer]

It's official: Jasikevicius signed a 2-year contract with Panathinaikos (10m$)

Panathinaikos Roster:

Jasikevicius-Vujanic
Spanoulis-Becirovic-Hatzivrettas
Diamantidis-Winston Kennedy-Perperoglou-Alvertis
Mike Batiste-Dikoudis-Zizic
Tsartsaris-Tomasevic

Saras-VSpan-Diamantidis....that's probably the best back-court in Euroleague history.
and Vujanic-Becirovic-Hatzivrettas would start for most other Eurolegue teams.
(I wonder why the Spanish teams didn't try harder to keep pace, with the finals played in Madrid this year)

[magic]

Saras-VSpan-Diamantidis....that's probably the best back-court in Euroleague history

CSKA Moscow has also a great back-court (Papaloukas-Langdon-Siskauskas).

[mountainballer]

CSKA Moscow has also a great back-court (Papaloukas-Langdon-Siskauskas).

no doubt, but I would still rank Saras-VSpan-Diamantidis higher and (as mentioned) the 2nd unit of Panathinaikos is for sure far better than the one of CSKA. (Zisis is a nice talent, though)
anyhow, right now it seems as if Panathinaikos and CSKA will be far ahead of the rest of the teams.

[Indazone]

CSKA Moscow has also a great back-court (Papaloukas-Langdon-Siskauskas).

yeah and they could get Kirilenko

[Hemotivo]

It's official: Jasikevicius signed a 2-year contract with Panathinaikos (10m$)

Panathinaikos Roster:

Jasikevicius-Vujanic
Spanoulis-Becirovic-Hatzivrettas
Diamantidis-Winston Kennedy-Perperoglou-Alvertis
Mike Batiste-Dikoudis-Zizic
Tsartsaris-Tomasevic
Nice!

[wildbill2u]

It true. it be all overs the Hellas TV.

Spanoulis take old role he always usual have with Maroussi and Panathinaikos of 6th man bes best 6th man all Europe plays play maker and shooting guard.

Also Spanoulis and Diamantidis all defends other guards so Saras not have to worry on defense.

Every people be alreadys say Panathinaikos greatest of all team ever put all together history of Euroleague.

There be's now 12 NBA equals player on team firsts in Europe.
Interesting that the new prediction for V-Span is that he will not start for even a good Euro team. This isn't to take anything away from the 6th man position because Manu performs there about as well as any starter, but it does take some of the luster off the discussion about the loss of V-Span to the Spurs.

[Pero]

Papalukas also comes off the bench for CSKA (and Greece if I`m not mistaken), and he was Final Four MVP.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Interesting that the new prediction for V-Span is that he will not start for even a good Euro team. This isn't to take anything away from the 6th man position because Manu performs there about as well as any starter, but it does take some of the luster off the discussion about the loss of V-Span to the Spurs.

You confuse how be works in Euroleague. Not matter so much to player start or 6th man. Papaloukas have been final four MVP of Euroleague, MVP of Euroleague and Europeans players of year.

In Euroleague he is calls "The Legend"

Actual reason Spanoulis maybe play 6th mans is because he better than player like Becirovic because he basic cant play play maker only shooting guard.

Saras basic cant play shooting guard. Diamantidis needs only play play maker or point forwards offense but defense can guards position 1,2,3.

Saras not able to play good defense even Euroleage unless as team help defense.

Spanoulis able play both guard spot and also play both offense and defense, plus some player play not as good if come off bench, but Spanoulis play equal bench or starts.

He very similar player to Manu like this and do whatever team need. If play 2nd unit he help team more.

He do this also National Team and even though he lead National Team in 2006 Worlds Champion and 2007 Eurobasket in scoring both times #1 for Greece even though comes off bench.

He debatable top 3 player with Diamantidis and Papaloukas on National Team (Papaloukas also come off bench) but most likely he now best player of National Team.

He for sures better player on Panathinaikos than Becirovic and keeps in mind Becirovic very talent player he draft pick of Denver Nuggets remember. He very much possible this year be better than Saras and Diamantidis.

Puts like this he younger and at same age he way ahead of them.

Plus when Spanoulis plays with Maroussi he play 6ths man. You see Maroussi roster then you laugh.

One year he plays 6th man for Maroussi he finish 3rd MVP voting another year he finish 2nd.

6th man just because he able to make its help team more like Manu. Bases on Eurobasket he should be 2nd best player on Panathinaikos after Saras, and bases on Saras' age and body obvious slow down, he very good possible be team best player.

He for sure 2nd best on team in defense after Diamantidis, this not even debates.

[Kamnik]

It's official: Jasikevicius signed a 2-year contract with Panathinaikos (10m$)



10mil?!?!?

Saras is one of my favourite players of all time but holy shit....

10 mil for him?! :oops
(i wouldnt say anything if he would be 5 years younger...)

Thats shitload of money even for an NBA team.

What si PAN budget per year?

[magic]

What si PAN budget per year?

30mil$

[laurius]

Panathinaikos will pay Jasikevicius 10mln $ for 2 seasons and 4mln $ buyout for Wariors. So it will cost Panathinaikos 14mln $ for 2 seasons Jasikevicius. He will be most expiensive basketball player playing in Europe and yes he is worth every cent. Europe teams knows hes worth. He not only can pass beautifull passes but can shot very inportant shots. He is team spirit. At this years Europe Championship he played with 3 injuries and couldn't play all 40mins but was most assist doing player in Champ and bringed Lithuania to 3 place in Championship. Just watch video about hes playing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMF3zJtUjaE

[wildbill2u]

You confuse how be works in Euroleague. Not matter so much to player start or 6th man. Papaloukas have been final four MVP of Euroleague, MVP of Euroleague and Europeans players of year.

In Euroleague he is calls "The Legend"

Actual reason Spanoulis maybe play 6th mans is because he better than player like Becirovic because he basic cant play play maker only shooting guard.

Saras basic cant play shooting guard. Diamantidis needs only play play maker or point forwards offense but defense can guards position 1,2,3.

Saras not able to play good defense even Euroleage unless as team help defense.

Spanoulis able play both guard spot and also play both offense and defense, plus some player play not as good if come off bench, but Spanoulis play equal bench or starts.

He very similar player to Manu like this and do whatever team need. If play 2nd unit he help team more.

He do this also National Team and even though he lead National Team in 2006 Worlds Champion and 2007 Eurobasket in scoring both times #1 for Greece even though comes off bench.

He debatable top 3 player with Diamantidis and Papaloukas on National Team (Papaloukas also come off bench) but most likely he now best player of National Team.

He for sures better player on Panathinaikos than Becirovic and keeps in mind Becirovic very talent player he draft pick of Denver Nuggets remember. He very much possible this year be better than Saras and Diamantidis.

Puts like this he younger and at same age he way ahead of them.

Plus when Spanoulis plays with Maroussi he play 6ths man. You see Maroussi roster then you laugh.

One year he plays 6th man for Maroussi he finish 3rd MVP voting another year he finish 2nd.

6th man just because he able to make its help team more like Manu. Bases on Eurobasket he should be 2nd best player on Panathinaikos after Saras, and bases on Saras' age and body obvious slow down, he very good possible be team best player.

He for sure 2nd best on team in defense after Diamantidis, this not even debates.
That explains it. :clap

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

10mil?!?!?

Saras is one of my favourite players of all time but holy shit....

10 mil for him?! :oops
(i wouldnt say anything if he would be 5 years younger...)

Thats shitload of money even for an NBA team.

What si PAN budget per year?


It have been said recent I hear that with Spanoulis and Saras contract and buyouts pays to Warriors and Spurs, the team be at $42 million US dollar in budget.

[Kamnik]

It have been said recent I hear that with Spanoulis and Saras contract and buyouts pays to Warriors and Spurs, the team be at $42 million US dollar in budget.

42 mil, wow!

i dont want to think how much Slovenian Eurolage team Olimpija has :lol 2-3mil maybe

i guess some Euro teams will form a new NBA divison some time in the future

with this kind of money going around.. it could be possible

[Indazone]

Panathinaikos is loaded and...

PANATHINAIKOS will be playing exhibition games against, you guessed it, 11 October in Houston and 13 October in San Antonio from 16:30 to 19:30.

I so hope that they put up a good performance against two of the NBA's top teams and not get blown out so the Greek Players can claim that they belong. These exhibition games will really show what this Greek team is made of.

[Indazone]

Not only that but here's some new info for Spurs fans:

http://www.sportdog.gr/new/article.aspx?id=41501

Here's hoping someone who speaks Greek can translate this article. But the heading for the link was printed in English.

Panathinaikos to play in NBA in 2010
According to David Stern

[Kamnik]

Not only that but here's some new info for Spurs fans:

http://www.sportdog.gr/new/article.aspx?id=41501

Here's hoping someone who speaks Greek can translate this article. But the heading for the link was printed in English.

Panathinaikos to play in NBA in 2010
According to David Stern
yeah a translation of this would be much apreciated! :clap

[Scola Trade]

I don't know Greek, but I stayed at the Holiday Inn last night :lol . Here is the translation:

"David Stern said in an interview with WFAN, a sports station in New York, that Panathinaikos (Greece), Real Madrid (Spain), and CSKA Moscow (Russia) have passed the criteria to become full-fledged members of the NBA. They will enter the NBA in 2010 as expansion teams and have the ability to draft players.

He also said that by 2012, there will be five teams from Europe who will form there own conference within the NBA. There are other teams also being condidered such as Benetton Treviso (Italy), Makabi Tel-Aviv (Israel), and Tau Ceramica (Spain). Also, other cities being considered to host NBA games are Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro ( Brazil), and Buenos Aires (Argentina)"

[Kamnik]

I don't know Greek, but I stayed at the Holiday Inn last night :lol . Here is the translation:

"David Stern said in an interview with WFAN, a sports station in New York, that Panathinaikos (Greece), Real Madrid (Spain), and CSKA Moscow (Russia) have passed the criteria to become full-fledged members of the NBA. They will enter the NBA in 2010 as expansion teams and have the ability to draft players.

He also said that by 2012, there will be five teams from Europe who will form there own conference within the NBA. There are other teams also being condidered such as Benetton Treviso (Italy), Makabi Tel-Aviv (Israel), and Tau Ceramica (Spain). Also, other cities being considered to host NBA games are Mexico City, Rio de Janeiro ( Brazil), and Buenos Aires (Argentina)"


wow, sweet news!

cant wait for that

[ChumpDumper]

One would think an NBA expansion into Europe would make the news in something other than "sportdog."

[magic]

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8586/tempjpgsw7.jpg

[Indazone]

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8586/tempjpgsw7.jpg

Oh that is hilarious!! LMAO

[Indazone]

So basically Spanoulis doesn't have to come back to the US to play in the NBA eh?

[magic]

won't happen (traveling distance and different time zones)

[Indazone]

Oh it'll happen it's inevitable. The NBA isn't stupid. I think what we'll have is a separate NBA Euro-Division and every now and then a team will fly over the pond and play. But for the most part, I think they play over there amongst themselves until playoff time.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

One would think an NBA expansion into Europe would make the news in something other than "sportdog."

I can says Sport 24 Greece also had reports this. In Hellas Sport 24 like ESPN is in Amerika.

[Indazone]

NBA exhibition games with European Teams. Get Ready cause these game along with PANA's game play against Houston and San Antonio are the NBA's way of testing whether the European Market ready. Last year, CSKA beat the Clippers and the Sixers handily. The day is coming for NBA Europe!


http://www.insidehoops.com/europe-live.shtml

NBA Europe Live

2007 NBA Europe Live | Oct. 1-5, 2007
The Boston Celtics will take part in the second year of NBA Europe Live presented by EA SPORTS™ along with the Minnesota Timberwolves, Memphis Grizzlies and the Toronto Raptors. The four teams will conduct training camps and play six exhibition games in six European cities in four countries, announced today by NBA Commissioner David Stern.

The Celtics will have their training camp take place in Rome, Italy from October 1-5, 2007. The Celtics will play their first game of the 2007-08 preseason against the Toronto Raptors in Rome at the PalaLottomatica on October 6. The Celtics will then travel to London, England to take on the Minnesota Timberwolves at the O2, London’s new state of the art NBA style arena on October 10.

This October will mark the Celtics’ first appearance in Europe since the 1988-89 preseason when they played two games in Madrid, Spain in the McDonald’s Classic. The Celtics played the Yugoslavian National Team on October 21, 1988 and played Real Madrid on October 23, 1988. The Celtics won both match-ups, defeating Yugoslavia 113-85 and Real Madrid 111-96.

The 2007 NBA Europe Live presented by EA SPORTS™ will mark a series of firsts in the NBA’s 19-year history of conducting games in Europe. The Boston Celtics and the Minnesota Timberwolves will play in the first basketball game in the O2, London’s new state of the art NBA style arena. In addition, the NBA will conduct its first game played in Turkey. The event will also feature the first time two NBA teams have competed against one another in Rome.

After the 2007 NBA Europe Live, NBA teams will have played 41 games in 15 cities throughout Europe over the past two decades. The inaugural NBA Europe Live drew more than 36 million viewers, 115,000 spectators, and 18 marketing partners in October 2006.

This is the only full event of the year where NBA teams and Euroleague teams play together and against each other.

“Following the success of last year’s event, fans throughout Europe will have the opportunity to see four NBA teams embark on this special European tour,” said NBA Commissioner David Stern. “This collaborative effort between the NBA, Euroleague Basketball and EA SPORTS™ is committed to grow the sport of basketball across Europe and to embrace fans in each city through our NBA Cares community outreach.”

“Last year, we witnessed outstanding games proving that the game of basketball is growing in popularity and intensity. Euroleague Basketball is excited to be participating in the second edition of NBA Europe Live with teams such as Efes Pilsen Istanbul, Unicaja Malaga, Real Madrid and Lottomatica Roma,” said Euroleague Basketball CEO Jordi Bertomeu. “We look forward to seeing some great games.”

“We share a passion with our partners at the NBA to bring the world’s best basketball to Europe,” said Jan Bolz, Vice President, International Sales and Marketing at EA. “After the great success of last year’s event, we’re excited to continue to be ambassadors for NBA basketball and for the opportunity to showcase NBA LIVE on the largest of stages. NBA Europe Live presented by EA SPORTS™ creates an authentic platform for fans of all ages to enjoy real life and virtual basketball experiences across the continent.”

As part of NBA Cares, the NBA and adidas will conduct a series of court refurbishment and community enhancement activities in the cities where its teams will visit. During the 2006 NBA Europe Live, the NBA and Euroleague teams hosted more than 15 community events, highlighted by four basketball court refurbishments with global partner adidas in Barcelona, Rome, Lyon and Cologne.

“The NBA’s popularity in Europe has never been higher and we look forward to building upon the success of last year’s event with new ways of reaching the NBA fans in Europe,” said Lawrence Norman, adidas Vice President and Head of Global Basketball.

"We are delighted that the NBA has recognized the growing popularity of basketball, especially in markets like Turkey," said Scott McCune, Vice President, Worldwide Sports, Entertainment and Licensing, The Coca-Cola Company, a partner of NBA Europe Live for the second year.

Following is the schedule for the 2007 NBA Europe Live presented by EA SPORTS:

NBA Europe Live 2007 TRAINING CAMPS LOCATIONS:

TEAM DATE CITY
Boston Celtics Oct. 1-5 Rome
Memphis Grizzlies Oct. 5-8 Malaga
Minnesota Timberwolves Oct. 1-5 Istanbul
Toronto Raptors Oct. 1-5 Treviso

2007 NBA EUROPE LIVE SCHEDULE

Oct. 6:
Boston Celtics vs. Toronto Raptors (PalaLottomatica Arena, Rome)
Minnesota Timberwolves vs. Efes Pilsen Istanbul (Abdi Ipekci Sports Hall, Istanbul)

Oct. 7:
Toronto Raptors vs. Lottomatica Roma (PalaLottomatica Arena, Rome)

Oct. 9:
Memphis Grizzlies vs. Unicaja (Palacio de Deportes Jose Manuel Martin Carpena Arena, in Malaga)

Oct. 10:
Boston Celtics vs. Minnesota Timberwolves (The O2 Arena, London)

Oct. 11:
Toronto Raptors vs. Real Madrid (Palacio de Deportes de la Communidad Arena, Madrid)
Memphis Grizzlies vs. MMT Estudiantes OR (Palacio de Deportes de la Communidad Arena, Madrid)

Additional NBA Europe Live Info

The 2007 NBA Europe Live presented by EA SPORTS™ will mark a special homecoming for some of the players involved including Toronto Raptors rookie Andrea Bargnani, a native of Italy. Toronto’s Jose Calderon and Jorge Garbajosa, both natives of Spain, will play in Madrid for the first time wearing a Raptors uniform. Spain’s most celebrated basketball player Pau Gasol will make his second appearance in the country with the Memphis Grizzlies. Memphis last played in Barcelona in 2003. In addition, Toronto’s Vice President and Assistant General Manager, Maurizio Gheradini will be returning home to Italy where he served as Benetton Treviso’s Executive Director and General Manager for 14 years.

An NBA licensee since 1991, EA expanded its relationship with the league to become an official global marketing partner of the NBA to develop interactive basketball programs around the world, including NBA Europe Live presented by EA SPORTS™. The award-winning NBA LIVE video game franchise, recognized worldwide for delivering the most authentic interactive basketball experience for more than a decade, will be featured in promotion of the events throughout Europe and the U.S. The newest iteration in the series, NBA LIVE 07, is currently available in more than 100 countries on six continents. EA Sports will partner with the NBA and Euroleague Basketball to conduct a series of promotional activities leading up to the start of the event.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yes CSKA Moscow did beats Clipper and Sixer last year, then they lose championship final to Panathinaikos.

Also Panathinaikos much better team this year be compare last year. Plus we now see Olympiacos team also be from Athens also be competes level now this year CSKA and Panathinaikos.

[ChumpDumper]

I can says Sport 24 Greece also had reports this. In Hellas Sport 24 like ESPN is in Amerika.Trouble is WFAN is in America, and no one here seems to have heard the interview on the leading sports radio station in the largest city in the United States.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Trouble is WFAN is in America, and no one here seems to have heard the interview on the leading sports radio station in the largest city in the United States.

Sport 24 not report BS. This not like Greek sport newspaper or prints or team friendly report. Sport 24 the national sport news. This not be report there unless true.

[ChumpDumper]

All I'm saying is this interview that folks in Greece claimed to have happenend on the biggest sports station in the biggest city in the United States has not been reported in the United States at all. Just seems strange.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

All I'm saying is this interview that folks in Greece claimed to have happenend on the biggest sports station in the biggest city in the United States has not been reported in the United States at all. Just seems strange.


You listen radio all day? How you know? You always listen radio? Beside Spanish paper have also report Real Madrid agree between Vlade Divac and David Stern join NBA too. Guess they also lie?

[ChumpDumper]

There is no report of this in any of the news outlets of the United States, including the radio station that was said to have conducted the interview. This is all I'm saying. News like this usually would have made the wire services by now and showed up on several US websites.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

There is no report of this in any of the news outlets of the United States, including the radio station that was said to have conducted the interview. This is all I'm saying. News like this usually would have made the wire services by now and showed up on several US websites.

Maybe news Amerika could of say reports also make US be that Iraqi have no WMD's before President USA have said so, but nope they alls just say he said so and CIA agree so we not need check.

After turn out all be lie and wrong they says oh we check now turns out not true but why check before President have say all true and CIA agree why us check then if actual be true?

In Hellas something like this NEVER happens NEVER be allows happen. You act like our press is as bad as yours is?

:rolleyes :smokin :downspin: :bang :bang

[ChumpDumper]

There is no report of this in any of the news outlets of the United States, including the radio station that was said to have conducted the interview. This is all I'm saying. News like this usually would have made the wire services by now and showed up on several US websites.

[ChumpDumper]

Shouldn't there be a press release from the NBA itself declaring this confirmed future expansion?

Wouldn't it be kind of important news that would naturally be reported just as NBA players are arriving in Europe to start traning camps there?

Why is the NBA and the whole of the United States media keeping this explosive story top secret after announcing it on the biggest sports radio station in the biggest city in the United States?

[Indazone]

October 2003

Is it so hard to believe that Stern would reiterate and repeat himself?


http://www.hoopsanalyst.com/quickthoughts26.htm

by Harlan Schreiber (10/11/03)



1. Euro-Expansion: This week David Stern announced that the NBA intends to expand into Europe by 2010. We have long felt that NBA expansion into Europe was inevitable. Of course, expansion into Europe presents some serious logistical problems. I presume that part of Stern's idea of training camps in Europe is to test how regular intercontinental travel affects the teams. In terms of expansion, it would seem unrealistic to expand to two teams into Europe and place them in an existing division. Even having these teams play East Coast teams six times a year seems burdensome in terms of travel. More likely, the NBA would have to create a whole European division, at least four teams worth to player each other and to limit their play to a few trips into the U.S.

This leads to another interesting question: is Stern planning to create new European teams or will his expansion consists of something even more groundbreaking, an NBA-FIBA merger where teams likes FC Barcelona or PAOK Athens make the leap into the NBA. A merger of the top FIBA teams would certainly solve some problems regarding expansion transitions and appealing to local fan bases (not too mention the fact that an NBA team in most major cities would have to compete with an already popular FIBA counterpart).

Aside from these logistical issues, is the question of finance. If Toronto is having problems competing because of the problems with the value of the Canadian Dollar, will the Euro and the Pound also create problems. It is possible. There are ways around this problem which will discuss in more detail soon. But suffice it to say currency differences is another issue the NBA will also have to address before expanding abroad.

2. The Next LeBron: No, he's not the next LeBron, but the next big high school player has already been identified. His name is Dwight Howard, a 6'10 225 forward from Southwest Atlanta Christian High School. Howard established himself as the high school senior to watch after dominating the ABCD camp last summer. Scouts have marveled at Howard's foot work in the post and his athleticism. He can be fairly placed with Pavel Podkolzine and Emeka Okafor as the hottest NBA prospects for next year. After LeBron's following last year, I expect that high school stars will receive even more publicity, starting with Howard this coming year.

It will be a big year for Dwight Howard



3. Interesting Training Camp Names: Every year, some blasts from the past or curiosities try their shot in NBA training camps. Here is a list of this years noteworthy NBA hopefuls:



Mitchell Butler (Washington): Former Bullet from 1993-1996 tries to make it in D.C. again.

Rodney Buford (Sacramento): He could always play but he just can't stifle the urge to do stupid things off of the court.

Omar Cook (Indiana): He left St. John's two years ago but he is still trying to get into his first pro game.

Zendon Hamilton (Golden State): Speaking of St. John's, Zendon is still trying to parlay his decent 2001-02 into a steady NBA job.

Jerald Honeycutt (Portland): This three point shooter has been out of the NBA since 1998-99 but he did show some promise in 1997-98.

Brandin Knight (Sacramento): Brevin's brother played well at Pitt but has almost no shot of making the Kings.

George McCloud (Golden State): McCloud spent last year with no job. He is hoping to re-eastablish himself in GS.

Tracy Murray (Portland): Back with his rookie team of 1992-93. Is competing with Honeycutt as the Blazers' shooter.

Ademola Okulaja (Utah): After graduating from UNC in 2000, Okulaja has been a German star. Utah might be a good place for him,

Robert Pack (Portland): Another Blazer rookie in the early 1990s back in up north.

Eric Washington (Denver): He is back where he made a name as a decent rookie on an awful Denver team in 1997-98.

Michael Smith (Indiana): The big banger for the mid 1990s Kings has not played in the NBA since 2000-01.

[ChumpDumper]

Is it so hard to believe that Stern would reiterate and repeat himself? It's hard to believe that no US media outlet would report that European expansion is a done deal -- to say nothing of the NBA's not saying it themselves on their own website or television network.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

It's hard to believe that no US media outlet would report that European expansion is a done deal -- to say nothing of the NBA's not saying it themselves on their own website or television network.

Show me report from nba website announces 3 year before Grizzlies join NBA?

[ChumpDumper]

Show me report from nba website announces 3 year before Grizzlies join NBA?As soon as expansion is decided upon by the NBA, it is announced and reported.

Here's the report for the Charlotte expansion team made on the same day of the decision, even before the official announcement.

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/1217/1478643.html

So now I'll ask you to show me the ESPN article announcing the NBA expansion into Europe that has already been decided.

I'm prefectly willing to accept the NBA European expansion as complete and sure and true once I see a US news outlet report. One would think the NBA would be rather excited about it and would want to let people know.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

As soon as expansion is decided upon by the NBA, it is announced and reported.

Here's the report for the Charlotte expansion team made on the same day of the decision, even before the official announcement.

http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2002/1217/1478643.html

So now I'll ask you to show me the ESPN article announcing the NBA expansion into Europe that has already been decided.

I'm prefectly willing to accept the NBA European expansion as complete and sure and true once I see a US news outlet report. One would think the NBA would be rather excited about it and would want to let people know.

Where announcement 3 year before team join NBA? Guesses must be nevers happen then.

[ChumpDumper]

Where announcement 3 year before team join NBA? Guesses must be nevers happen then.As soon as it was decided, it was announced and reported in the US media.

You are saying it is decided.

Where is the announcement? Where are the reports in the US media?

[Bruno]

I guess that Stern should have said something like that they were studying if extending the nba in Europe was feasible.
If nba expand the league in Europe, I'm not sure Greece will have a team because it's a small market.

[ChumpDumper]

It's not just Stern. There is an entire expansion committee made up of NBA owners who chat with the media on occasion. Seeing as four NBA teams are in Europe, wouldn't it be a good time to be hyping the expansion of the NBA into Europe if the expansion committee has already given it the green light?

[ShoogarBear]

I heard that Tom Cruise will be the owner for the expansion team from Xenu.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I guess that Stern should have said something like that they were studying if extending the nba in Europe was feasible.
If nba expand the league in Europe, I'm not sure Greece will have a team because it's a small market.

Hard say Hellas have about 11 million people, Athens have about 3 million city I think 5 million overall. I think about 19-20 million Greek citizen over sea from Hellas. This small market for NBA?

[Bruno]

Hard say Hellas have about 11 million people, Athens have about 3 million city I think 5 million overall. I think about 19-20 million Greek citizen over sea from Hellas. This small market for NBA?

Greece is a small market when you compare it to Italy, Spain, Germany, Great Britain or France.

[Indazone]

I read that the NBA was trying to build on the soccer fans in these countries. That for a team like PAO, they had a loyal following for soccer and if they can convert these soccer fans to NBA basketball, it makes good business sense.

[Bruno]

I don't think a nba franchise in Europe should be based on a local team.
If you create a nba team in Athens around Pana, Oly's fans will have a hard time to root for them. You will maybe get some loyal fans but you will too have a smaller market.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Greece is a small market when you compare it to Italy, Spain, Germany, Great Britain or France.

San Antonio small market compares Athens right?

[Indazone]

LOL @ Kill_Bill

haha that's a good one. San Antonio has got to be one of the smallest markets in the NBA. Right up there with the Indiana Pacers in a city of 1 million people.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

I don't think a nba franchise in Europe should be based on a local team.
If you create a nba team in Athens around Pana, Oly's fans will have a hard time to root for them. You will maybe get some loyal fans but you will too have a smaller market.

Madrid and Athens have many team. You know even though Athens have many team PAO have been gets 15,000 the fan per game and 18,000 the fan pers game in playoff?

We also have been do two games over 20,000 fan at final four. I think there be plenty big market Athens.

[Bruno]

San Antonio small market compares Athens right?

Spurs are the only big team in SA. In Athens you have too soccer teams.
America is richer than Greece too.

Just look at where nab teams have had training camp : it's in big and rich countries like Japan, France, Germany... and not in small countries with a huge BB culture like Lithuania, Serbia or Croatia.

If NBA goes in Europe, they will go first where big markets are.

[Indazone]

If you really want to talk about small markets, you can look at the Hornets New Orleans Franchise where they only have about 400,000 people and even less since Hurricane Katrina.

[Indazone]

Then there's the Milwaukee Bucks. Lets see how many people are in that city? I checked and it's about 600,000 and they have to compete with the Chicago Bulls for fans.

[Bruno]

Do you realize than a lot of nba franchise lose money ?

If you don't think that nba franchise will try to go first in biggest European market, you haven't understand the nba.
The nba is a business and you go where you can make the more money. A nba franchise in London or Madrid will make more money than a nba franchise in Athens.

[ChumpDumper]

Then there's the Milwaukee Bucks. Lets see how many people are in that city? I checked and it's about 600,000Yes, the other 900,000 who live outside the city limits but in the metro area are not allowed to attend Bucks games.

And the New Orleans team is and always has been subsidized by the state of Louisianna.

[Indazone]

Do you realize than a lot of nba franchise lose money ?

If you don't think that nba franchise will try to go first in biggest European market, you haven't understand the nba.
The nba is a business and you go where you can make the more money. A nba franchise in London or Madrid will make more money than a nba franchise in Athens.

Yes unless you can as I said in a previous post, you can build on the fan base. PAO has a huge soccer following and the NBA is betting that more than a few soccer fans will be loyal PAO basketball followers.

[ChumpDumper]

If PAO is ready to double its payroll, upgrade their arena, play 82 games a season -- a quarter to a third of them in America --and never play in the Greek League or Euroleague again except for a couple of preseason contests, I'd like to see some quotes from its owner to that effect.

[Bruno]

Yes unless you can as I said in a previous post, you can build on the fan base. PAO has a huge soccer following and the NBA is betting that more than a few soccer fans will be loyal PAO basketball followers.

What is the most difficult ? Creating a fan base in England or Spain or turning Greece into a 50 million people country ?

NBA's main market is about 300M people (the USA), they won't go in Europe, with all the difficulties it has, just to have a 311M people market. NBA will go in Europe only if they can raised their market by a significant margin.

Add 5 nba teams (one in France, one in Spain, One in Germany, One in Italy and one in Great Britain) and the nba will have a 600M people market.

[Indazone]

Never say never. Remember the ABA

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

What is the most difficult ? Creating a fan base in England or Spain or turning Greece into a 50 million people country ?

NBA's main market is about 300M people (the USA), they won't go in Europe, with all the difficulties it has, just to have a 311M people market. NBA will go in Europe only if they can raised their market by a significant margin.

Add 5 nba teams (one in France, one in Spain, One in Germany, One in Italy and one in Great Britain) and the nba will have a 600M people market.

Is funny but most country you name people hate basketballs there. Smart for NBA put team where they not even like basketball?

[ShoogarBear]

I have to agree that it probably makes more sense to put a team in Greece than in Great Britain.

[Bruno]

Is funny but most country you name people hate basketballs there.

First, it's false most of these countries like BB.
Second, you must too considered than the nba isn't just BB. It's too a show with superstars.
In France, NBA games are most watched than Euroleague or French league games.

[Kamnik]

I have to agree that it probably makes more sense to put a team in Greece than in Great Britain.
Hell yes.

In Great Britain every thousand person cares about basketball.

In Greece every second.






I mean... countries like Germany and Great Britain also have a very strong football culture.

To convert it to basketball.... hard if not impossible even in long term.




In Germany basicly noone care about basketball even though the have a MVP etc.

How many Germany fans of the NBA are there? Not so many.... If Greece gets an All star type player in the NBA their people will go crazy with support over him.




Per say... atm im studying in Graz Austria. It is basicly the same as Germany.

Me and my friends go play basketball at pretty much the only decent basketball place in whole damn city. (300-400 thousand inhabitants)

And guess who is playing basketball there? Slovenians, Turks, Greeks, Croatians, Serbs, Africans etc.

I have been there for 10 times and i didnt meet a single Austrian.



If there should be 5 teams in Europe at the start:

-Madrid
-Athens
-Paris
-Rome
-Moscow

without a doubt, forget about Germany and England

[picnroll]

Would these cities in Europe support the ticket prices for games even close to what people pay in the low ticket price towns like San Antonio? What's it cost to go toa Euroleague game for decent seats in tne first tier? Would they pay $12,000 a year minus playoffs for an 82 game saeson for a seat?

[ShoogarBear]

-Madrid
-Athens
-Paris
-Rome
-Moscow

without a doubt, forget about Germany and EnglandThat's probably right, althought it would be nice if there could somehow be a team in Lithuania (too small) or the Balkans (too politically difficult to have just one team).

The other big issue about having the NBA in Europe is economics. There's already a problem with US players not wanting to play for Toronto because of bigger taxes: how would that work in Europe?

Second, the US/Eur exchange rate is pretty good for you now, but what happends when it isn't? That US$50-60 million dollar/year salary roster suddenly becomes a lot more expensive. Are ticket prices going to fluctuate with the dollar?

Finally, I can easily envision that US players will do everything to get out of playing for European teams, and vice versa. I that what you really want the league to be: the US players all on US teams and European players all on European teams?

[itzsoweezee]

he's a fucking whiner. when has he ever not be "disgruntled." send his ass back to europe. fucking whining euro.

[Indazone]

he's a fucking whiner. when has he ever not be "disgruntled." send his ass back to europe. fucking whining euro.

Now was that really necessary?

[Pero]

Or true...

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

That's probably right, althought it would be nice if there could somehow be a team in Lithuania (too small) or the Balkans (too politically difficult to have just one team).

The other big issue about having the NBA in Europe is economics. There's already a problem with US players not wanting to play for Toronto because of bigger taxes: how would that work in Europe?

Second, the US/Eur exchange rate is pretty good for you now, but what happends when it isn't? That US$50-60 million dollar/year salary roster suddenly becomes a lot more expensive. Are ticket prices going to fluctuate with the dollar?

Finally, I can easily envision that US players will do everything to get out of playing for European teams, and vice versa. I that what you really want the league to be: the US players all on US teams and European players all on European teams?

I not sure how it work in Spain but with CSKA in Moscow prett sure team pay ALL tax and player expense.

But in Greece, Panathinaikos pay all player tax, all salary player be nets money, team pay ALL player expense, team pay ALL cost player bills, player house, player car, player debt, even pay any bill after player leave to go back country if player not Greek!

Most player Panathinaikos make much more money NBA same player. At least double.

[Kamnik]

That's probably right, althought it would be nice if there could somehow be a team in Lithuania (too small) or the Balkans (too politically difficult to have just one team).


Unfortunately you are right here. Even though these people would have the most passion for it both are simply way too small markets and as you said.... most nations in Balkans cant stand each other nowadays.

I guess we will forever have to be happy with our players playing on "foreign" teams.

[ShoogarBear]

I not sure how it work in Spain but with CSKA in Moscow prett sure team pay ALL tax and player expense.

But in Greece, Panathinaikos pay all player tax, all salary player be nets money, team pay ALL player expense, team pay ALL cost player bills, player house, player car, player debt, even pay any bill after player leave to go back country if player not Greek!

Most player Panathinaikos make much more money NBA same player. At least double.But if they were NBA teams they would be limited by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I'm not sure how many of those things they can do and not have it count as salary against the salary cap.

[ChumpDumper]

And they'd still be in Greece.

[exstatic]

And they'd still be in Greece.
Greece is the word...
:fro

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

But if they were NBA teams they would be limited by the Collective Bargaining Agreement. I'm not sure how many of those things they can do and not have it count as salary against the salary cap.

No in Hellas govern have made it where athlete have pay 28% tax, now increases 40% tax. But see Olympiakos and Panathinaikos pay it ALL.

See NBA player say get $5,356,000 yours MLE usual pay for most good free agent, this be about €3,700,000.

US player pay maybe 40% tax yes? Not sure, but this be tax Hellas. Also this be pays same Hellas 40%.

But US team make player pay tax. In Hellas player pay tax amounts then, team pay player back for amounts of tax.

So in US NBA MLE be worth of $3,213,600, but in Hellas it be worth $5,356,000. You sees this be why player like Saras, Spanoulis, Greer, Pavlovic, Varejao, Webber and such player be so interest now.

Spanoulis have tell me he get more thans 3 time amount money from PAo than he get if stay Spurs. Thinks this way. Tim Duncan he join PAO he gets more money than he make now with Spurs as long PAO under NBA salary caps.

Also bes actual on game ticket PAO have sold 4,000 season ticket in one day on the day Saras sign!

[ShoogarBear]

But US team make player pay tax. In Hellas player pay tax amounts then, team pay player back for amounts of tax.Yes, but under the NBA rules, the amount Hellas used to pay back the player would count as "salary" toward the salary cap.

In Europe there's no salary cap, right? So this isn't an issue.

Also, in the NBA there a fixed salary structure. You wouldn't be able to work around it by paying taxes and saying that's not part of the salary.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Yes, but under the NBA rules, the amount Hellas used to pay back the player would count as "salary" toward the salary cap.

In Europe there's no salary cap, right? So this isn't an issue.

Also, in the NBA there a fixed salary structure. You wouldn't be able to work around it by paying taxes and saying that's not part of the salary.


No you misinterpret. Salary already be count by team in Hellas. So it same now as NBA salary cap. You sees NBA player be list he sign say 10 million for 2 year it be not net.

You see Greek player 10 million 2 year it be net salary list. But same both be for salary cap. Because Hellas Oly and PAO already count tax pays by team as budget. Same exact as NBA no different, just NBA salary listing be not net, as you call grosses of wage and Greece list salary be nets of wage.

But salary be lists by team not include so you see Hellas team already have pay this as part of budget. So if PAO say they spends say 25 million player they actual spend 40 million and this on and so.

But already yes team have count 40 million for budget. Budget could be like salary cap figures. It just that each team be set budget. But the ways it be counted same exact as NBA count.

If Hellas pay Tim Duncan more nets wage than Spurs they count the wage plus all tax team pay in budget number, just like NBA.

No difference, just mean player keep more money. Like Spanoulis have say when sign with Rockets he lucky because Texas have less tax than other NBA places. Same thing, salary all be counts same as any other team just player keep more.

[ChumpDumper]

No difference, just mean player keep more moneyIf there's no difference, then players don't keep any more money. This "players don't play taxes" nonsense is a shell game. Players make money, players pay taxes, only in Europe they do it through the teams.

Have you found the ESPN and NBA reports about the European expansion that has already been approved yet?

[SequSpur]

GS Warriors waive disgruntled Jasikevicius


WGAF?

[Indazone]

If there's no difference, then players don't keep any more money. This "players don't play taxes" nonsense is a shell game. Players make money, players pay taxes, only in Europe they do it through the teams.

Have you found the ESPN and NBA reports about the European expansion that has already been approved yet?

In Europe, all the clubs were paying their players with perks like cars, apartments, houses. The clubs paid for everything. This was especially true in the former Soviet Union. If the clubs say they want to pay the players taxes as a benefit, then so be it. In the end, it's how much money a player takes to the bank after taxes and it's going to be higher as KillBill has stated.

[ChumpDumper]

All that is counted as player compensation by the NBA, so there's no reason to brag about it. If Euro clubs are ready to count all that as player compensation, bravo.

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

If there's no difference, then players don't keep any more money. This "players don't play taxes" nonsense is a shell game. Players make money, players pay taxes, only in Europe they do it through the teams.

Have you found the ESPN and NBA reports about the European expansion that has already been approved yet?
:rolleyes

The team pay the ALL the player salary TAX in Greece. But the whole salary PLUS tax be counted on salary budget of team. What so hard to understand?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

All that is counted as player compensation by the NBA, so there's no reason to brag about it. If Euro clubs are ready to count all that as player compensation, bravo.


:rolleyes they already count this

How many time have be discusses? See if team in Europe report player make $5 million it be NETS of his salary. BUT this NOT be same as TEAM salary. TEAM salary be 5 million PLUS tax amount, not 5 million minus tax amount.

In NBA team NOT be pays player salary plus be pays player tax. You think Spur paspays Duncan salary PLUS all tax? Euro team ALREADY bes counts player pa PLUS tax.

So when you sees story Saras get $14 millions or some things like thia that NOT team pay number, JUST player pay number.

Team pays taxes and other things already bes counts team in Europe. You seems not be understands simple thing. It ALREADY be counts as salary for team as you say "if willing to change" why change to what be already this way? :rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

:rolleyes

The team pay the ALL the player salary TAX in Greece. But the whole salary PLUS tax be counted on salary budget of team. What so hard to understand?It's very easy to understand. I don't know why you think there is some advantage to it. It's just a different way of listing a salary. No amount of :rolleyes will change that.

[ChumpDumper]

So where is the US report about the finalized NBA expansion into Europe?

Shall I post a :rolleyes to make you answer?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

It's very easy to understand. I don't know why you think there is some advantage to it. It's just a different way of listing a salary. No amount of :rolleyes will change that.

You keeps say if Euro team be willing to change to count all these salary on cap number. They ALREADY count in cap number.

You seems very easy confuse. NBA salary be same thing paper report. Greece salary paper report different team salary.

What you so confuses on this? Team already have to count tax as player salary plus car and house and everything team ALREADY have to add it to player salary and already report it to Euroleague.

It just paper not report it because how paper knows how much player bill or house be???

[ChumpDumper]

You seems very easy confuse.Not at all.
It just paper not report it because how paper knows how much player bill or house be???It would have to be reported in the NBA along with everything else, which is all you have been bitching about. Why are you so confused about this?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

Not at all.It would have to be reported in the NBA along with everything else, which is all you have been bitching about. Why are you so confused about this?

It have to be reported in Euroleague too!!! You must have problem my bad English or you just refsue listens.

[ChumpDumper]

It have to be reported in Euroleague too!!!To whom? What are the player compensation caps in each European league?

[ChumpDumper]

The most recent article I have found states this:
Winterthur F.C. Barcelona: The biggest European basketball budget (22 milion €)

http://www.24sec.net/article.asp?index=3851

That's a little under $37 million. So what does the budget include?

All player compensation?

Taxes?

Cars?

Rent?

Food?

Escorts?

Body waxing?

Lawn care?

[Kill_Bill_Pana]

The most recent article I have found states this:

http://www.24sec.net/article.asp?index=3851

That's a little under $37 million. So what does the budget include?

All player compensation?

Taxes?

Cars?

Rent?

Food?

Escorts?

Body waxing?

Lawn care?


Budget count ALL thing paid player. I done explain to you because you just acts like rude on purposes.

[ChumpDumper]

So the biggest basketball budget in Europe is $5 million less than the absolute minimum an NBA team is required to spend, $19 million less than the amount of the NBA salary cap and more than $31 million less than the amount of the real payroll spending limit of NBA teams.

Thanks for verifying that. I appreciate it

[ShoogarBear]

The bottom line is, there is no way under the NBA regulations that a NBA Europe team would have a loophole to compensate their players more than a US team can.

If a Greek team pays V-Span US$2 million in salary and then pays $500K in taxes, I guarantee the NBA would count that as $2.5 million toward the salary cap.

Incidnetally, in the US, you can't just pay somebody else's taxes. Any money you give them for that purpose would be counted as additional income, and taxes would have to be paid on that was well.

[Indazone]

Interesing posts but I will now go back to the subject of Sarunas.


http://www.dirtlocker.com/gossip/36155/heal-the-world-one-jasikevicius-at-a-time

Heal The World: One Jasikevicius At A Time
It’s time for European / international players coming over to the NBA to be extremely picky when making their team choice. I’m tired of seeing talented people fail. If players are gonna come over for a couple years and then head back to Europe, they just shouldn’t make the move at all. They’re wasting valuable years of their basketball lives.

Now, there is definitely a misunderstanding between NBA organizations and the players themselves. Experienced Euros seem to believe they will immediately be given some sort of burn and a decent shot to show their stuff while many NBA coaches seem to treat most of them as rookies.

Sarunas Jasikevicius is a good example of this in Golden State. Jasikevicius arrived as a highly successful player overseas when he signed with the Pacers. He was given a chance but the Pacers style didn’t really suit his shoot-happy game. He never complained in Indiana, but despised his time in Golden State where he barely saw the floor. Sarunas didn’t make the right choice coming over; there are very few teams that know how to use the talents of a seasoned Euro right off the bat. Jasikevicius definitely could have worked in the Warriors’ “all offense” kind of system. The Warriors sign Troy Hudson (?!?) when they had this winner in their grasps?

Coaches and front offices alike should take in to account the professional experience of these players and treat them as if they are a solid NBA pro. If Richard Jefferson signed with the Clippers, he would expect minutes. NBA teams have to understand that’s the way the internationals think.

It’s different when young Euros arrive in NA or enter through the draft. Dirk and Tony Parker came over here as kids and developed here. They didn’t get the keys handed to them, nor did they expect to be given anything. A 28, 29, or 30-year-old NBA rookie arrives for a new challenge and to play with the most talented players in the world. They aren’t here to take a step back from their roles in Europa.

Carlos Delfino was constantly unhappy in Detroit as he gained more experience and his role didn’t change. The trade to a situation in Toronto that suits his style should make for some international love. We’ve all watched the super-talented Andrei Kirilenko and his fallout with the Jazz. Vassilis Spanoulis entered in to a very structured situation in Houston as a 24-year-old and expected too much. If he arrived a year later under Rick Adelman as opposed to Jeff Van Gundy, who knows what happens? Juan Carlos Navarro will likely work in Memphis not only because he’s playing with good buddy Pau, but because he has a coach in Marc Iavaroni and a system that will use him effectively. Jorge Garbajosa and Fabricio Oberto are examples of international veterans that have made the successful transition over the last few years (with notorious FIBA-loving teams, Toronto and San Antonio).

More research by both the teams and players, and a little more understanding by the squads would make everyone a hell of a lot more happy. Just like we can hopefully make you a little more happy when we get in to the studio to record a podcast this Thursday. Skeets has been busy cleaning his carpet — sorry for the delay.

[dbreiden83080]

Warriors are probably a one series wonders anyway, i mean they sucked against the Jazz last year after beating on Dirk and his merry MEN.

[Indazone]

Actually just about everyone in the NBA is a star. You give them playing minutes and they are going to light it up. I remember last year when Walter Hermann was inserted into the lineup for the Bobcats. This benchwarmer just lit up the scoreboard and was just sensational. There are a lot of hidden gems in the NBA just waiting to be discovered. If only some of the coaches in the NBA would give them half a chance. It's like Shaq said, get rid of some of these old recycled coaches and give some younger coaches a chance that can relate better to these kids. Who says you have to be 60 years old as a coach with a mediocre track record to be a coach in the NBA? The NBA is littered with failure and half failure coaches. Who amoung us would want Musselman as our coach??