Should the Redskins change their name and logo?

[samikeyp]

First off...Skins fans, don't get your burgandy and gold chones clenched. I am not saying that Washington needs to make a change. I thought of asking this yesterday when I saw their retro uni's. (Which incidentally, I didn't think were that bad...certainly not as bad as those nasty-ass Philly ones).

There have been, over the years, a number of protests by various groups about their logo and name as well as other teams.

I'm curious what NFL fans think of this. Personally, I don't find any of it offensive but then again, I am not Native American. I kind of see where the name "Redskins" might be seen as offensive but I don't see at all how the logo is. Its not cartoonish or a caricature. I also don't see the pro teams changing because of all the money involved in the marketing of team gear.

The NCAA has cracked down in this and a lot of teams have been forced to change and others have received support from Native American tribes (Florida State, Central Michigan) and the NCAA has allowed them to keep their name. I think Illinois made a deal that they could keep the name but had to lose the dude in the mascot costume.

I know also that high schools have had to change. Sam Houston had to change from Cherokees to Hurricanes. I didn't agree with that because I don't think just the name "cherokees" is offensive.

Do you think the Redskins name or logo is offensive?

Any other teams?

Should they be changed?

Discuss.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

"Redskins" is a slap in the face to the Native American people, IMO.

[tlongII]

It's an interesting subject. To me the Redskins is probably the most potentially offensive name for a sports team I know of. Can you imagine a team called the Blackskins? I don't know if that would offend black people, but it seems as if it could.

[monosylab1k]

http://www.cetteadressecomportecinquantesignes.com/Shirts01_fichiers/image287.jpg

note the shirt

[Budkin]

Oh man that dude is just asking for Karma to fuck him in the ass.

[monosylab1k]

Oh man that dude is just asking for Karma to fuck him in the ass.
:lol

[Obstructed_View]

Doesn't offend me.

[K-State Spur]

i would think the logo of the stoic indian would be considered far less offensive than most other native american mascots.

and maybe i'm an ignorant white boy, but between pop culture and the number of indians that I do know (which is more than a couple) - i've never heard of 'redskin' being used as anything other than a reference to the football team.

the odd thing is, the team isn't actually named after Indians. They were originally founded in Boston and were a sly reference to the dress for the boston tea party. However, given their name + logo - obviously it refers to Indians now.

But one would think on the list of problems facing native americans today - sports mascots would rank #68,002,876.

[Walter Craparita]

http://www.cetteadressecomportecinquantesignes.com/Shirts01_fichiers/image287.jpg

note the shirt

Dude needs to get scalped.

What is that a gun? Real men use tomahawks.

[Obstructed_View]

Since the vast majority of the native american groups complaining were just trying to get some money out of the deal, they've either been paid off or are now going after the casinos, where the real money is.

[Thunder Dan]

I don't know, see they have a pretty offensive name if you are Native American. Calling someone a Redskin isn't exactly a compliment. I get the same thing here in Cleveland. Outside of every Indians game people protest the Chief Wahoo logo. Now I have to admit that it is offensive because it is a cartoon trying to classify a whole race of people. The first one is just a yellowish/brown guy with a giant nose, and the modern Chief is the brightest red you can find with a giant nose. But I still like it because it's all I really associate with the Indians. If they changed it it just wouldn't be the same.

http://thephoenix.com/SoxBlog/content/binary/Wahoo.gif

http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Cleveland_Indians_Logo/chief_wahoo.jpg

[monosylab1k]

Native Americans need to just chill out. Give them some of the fire water and they'll shut up about it.

[samikeyp]

Change the logo to this...

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2522730/2/istockphoto_2522730_redskin_potatoes.jpg

and you can keep the name. :)

[K-State Spur]

But does anybody actually use 'Redskin' as a slur? I would argue that - in common vernacular - 99.9% of its use is limited to references about the football team.

I have a couple of native american friends who say that while they have experienced racism, nobody has ever used 'redskin' in doing so.

[j-6]

Many prominent Native Americans identify their favorite NFL team as the Washington Redskins. I know Russell Means and Ward Churchill do.

[ShoogarBear]

As a season ticket holder, I agree that the name "Redskins" is embarrassing and would love to see it changed. There's really no difference between it and the high school in Illinois that used to have the nickname "Chinks".

It would raised holy hell among the lounge chair liberals in DC, however.

[Findog]

Are there any Native Americans left to get offended by it? There's like 20 Indians left, and they all own casinos.

[ShoogarBear]

The Washington Casino Owners would be a pretty funny nickname.

[shelshor]

...
the odd thing is, the team isn't actually named after Indians. They were originally founded in Boston and were a sly reference to the dress for the boston tea party. However, given their name + logo - obviously it refers to Indians now.

...
That makes more sense than the urban legend of my childhood: they were named by Jim Thorpe, so "they'll never forget the Indians"

[FromWayDowntown]

Change the logo to this...

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2522730/2/istockphoto_2522730_redskin_potatoes.jpg

and you can keep the name. :)

mikey is TMQ?

[samikeyp]

Tuesday Morning Quarterback?

[tlongII]

There was a high school named the "chinks?" :lmao

[Bigzax]

change the name and logo?


HELL NO!

[Extra Stout]

I believe there is a high school on a reservation somewhere out West that uses the nickname "Fightin' Whities." Their team cheer is "Everything's gonna be all White!"

However, the intended irony did not hold, because virtually all white people find that vignette absolutely hilarious.

[peewee's lovechild]

I can see how they (Natives) might be offended by the name "Redskins". What I don't get is when people make shit about the Seminoles and the Chiefs.

I'd be cool with a team that has an Aztec as it's mascot.

[Obstructed_View]

I'd be cool with a team that has an Aztec as it's mascot.
Unless you were the type of person who thought you could guilt them into giving you some money. If it were a Spanish team that had an Aztec being raped by a Conquistador as its mascot you might be a tad uncomfortable by that. Of course, that's such an extreme example nobody would defend it.

[samikeyp]

I'd be cool with a team that has an Aztec as it's mascot.

San Diego State.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Nike Unveils Shoe Designed For American Indians
Company Wants To Promote Fitness, Help Lower Obesity Rates

BEAVERTON, Ore. -- Nike on Tuesday unveiled what it said is the first shoe designed specifically for American Indians, an effort aiming at promoting physical fitness in a population with high obesity rates.

The Beaverton-based company says the Air Native N7 is designed with a larger fit for the distinct foot shape of American Indians, and has a culturally specific look. It will be distributed solely to American Indians; tribal wellness programs and tribal schools nationwide will be able to purchase the shoe at wholesale price and then pass it along to individuals, often at no cost.

"Nike is aware of the growing health issues facing Native Americans," said Sam McCracken, manager of Nike's Native American Business program. "We are stepping up our commitment ... to elevate the issue of Native American health and wellness."

Nike said it is the first time it has designed a shoe for a specific race or ethnicity. It said all profits from the sale of the shoe will be reinvested in health programs for tribal lands, where problems with obesity, diabetes and related conditions are near epidemic levels in some tribes.

Nike designers and researchers looked at the feet of more than 200 people from more than 70 tribes nationwide and found that in general, American Indians have a much wider and taller foot than the average shoe accommodates. The average shoe width of men and women measured was three width sizes larger than the standard Nike shoe.

As a result, the Air Native is wider with a larger toe box. The shoe has fewer seams for irritation and a thicker sock liner for comfort. Jerry Bread, outreach coordinator for the Native American Studies program at University of Oklahoma, said the idea was "fantastic" and addressed a core issue for tribes, though he was skeptical that the feet of people from so many tribes could be so similar.

"It's an excellent gesture and I know it will get a lot of support from tribal people," Bread said. "We stand to profit from it in our physical health and well being."

Dr. Kelly Acton, director of the national diabetes program for Indian Health Services, said she was dubious of working with a corporation at first but said she was delighted with the result, saying Nike "bent over backwards" to design a shoe and respect public health needs.

The N7 name is a reference to the seventh generation theory, used by some tribes to look to the three generations preceding them for wisdom and the three generations ahead for their legacy.

The design features several "heritage callouts" as one product manager described it, including sunrise to sunset to sunrise patterns on the tongue and heel of the shoe. Feather designs adorn the inside and stars are on the sole to represent the night sky. The company anticipates selling at least 10,000 pairs and raising $200,000 for tribal programs. At $42.80 wholesale, it represents less of a financial opportunity than a goodwill and branding effort.

"The reason I like it is that, even if there's not a big Native American market, it gives people the impression there is a constituency that deserves attention," said John Dickson, a member of the executive council of the Native American Leadership Alliance in Washington, D.C.

Paul Swangard, managing director of the Warsaw Sports Marketing Center at the University of Oregon, said the product reflects how Nike does business.

The company prides itself on designing specifically for certain athletes and having close ties to its customers. Nike has been involved with the tribal community for years, supporting tribal athletic teams, events and other social initiatives.

"It reinforces the core of the Nike brand, which is: If you have a body you are an athlete," Swangard said.

http://www.ksat.com/money/14204481/detail.html

[ShoogarBear]

Interesting idea. But I have to admit the first couple of paragraphs of that had me thinking it was an article from the Onion.

[peewee's lovechild]

San Diego State.

I meant in the NFL.

But, now that you brought it up . . . why hasn't anybody raised shit about that one?

Fucking racist mother fuckers.

[Findog]

Don't care one way or the other, but they should definitely change their unis back to what they wore on Sunday. Those looked fucking sweet. The Jets and Giants both look great going with the retro look, the Skins should do so as well.