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Wild Cobra
09-25-2007, 06:52 PM
Here are a few excepts from an interesting source that does a good job of using facts rather than hyperbole:

Ethanol: Problems and Promise (http://zfacts.com/p/749.html):



In 2006, the US produced 4.9 billion gallons of ethanol, and subsidized every one with a federal 51¢ blender's credit. On top of that $2.5 billion, the USDA paid $0.9 billion in subsidies for corn used to make ethanol. But drivers outdid the federal government by paying $3.9 billion extra at the gas pump, on an energy equivalent basis, to let their cars sip corn whisky. In return, we are 1.1% more energy independent, and GHGs were reduced 1/19 of 1%.

Just for the record, an article in the July 2006 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science (Hill, 2006) puts ethanol's net energy balance at +25%. It takes 1 GGE of non-corn energy to make 1.25 GGE of ethanol. This clears the way for the two basic energy-policy questions: (1) how much does it cost to reduce GHG emissions with ethanol? (2) How much does it cost to reduce energy imports with ethanol?

From Facts about Corn Ethanol Production (http://zfacts.com/p/60.html):


Energy Independence? 2.8%
According to the pro-corn-ethanol US Dept. of Agriculture, 2006 ethanol production was enough for 1.5% oil independence, and by 2017, we will max out at 3.7%. But this ignores the foreign fossil energy input to ethanol production, shown at the right.

How far can you drive?
If you get 30 mpg on gas, you'd get 20 mpg on pure ethanol. It has just less than 2/3 the energy-per-gallon of gasoline. That's physics. EPA has measured every type of flexible-fuel car in the US fleet, and that's how it turned out in reality.

Now an interesting note on a link in the second link above titled Corn ethanol: 2/10 of 1%, max GHG reduction (http://zfacts.com/p/751.html):


Why it doesn't ethanol work better?
♦ Corn uses more nitrogen fertilizer than almost any crop.
♦ Making nitrogen fertilizer requires a lot of natural gas (fossil fuel).
♦ Tractors, trucks and harvesters take gasoline.
♦ Distilling ethanol takes a lot of heat--more fossil fuel.
♦ Nitrogen fertilizer and soil bacteria make N2O.
♦ N2O is a much worse green-house gas than CO2.

ChumpDumper
09-25-2007, 07:00 PM
Corn is a stupid choice for ethanol production, but a great choice for subsidies.

Why Bush and the Republicans made/let this happen while they had full control of the government is interesting to say the least.

Extra Stout
09-25-2007, 07:44 PM
Here are a few excepts from an interesting source that does a good job of using facts rather than hyperbole:

Ethanol: Problems and Promise (http://zfacts.com/p/749.html):




From Facts about Corn Ethanol Production (http://zfacts.com/p/60.html):




Now an interesting note on a link in the second link above titled Corn ethanol: 2/10 of 1%, max GHG reduction (http://zfacts.com/p/751.html):
But Cargill, ConAgra, and Archer Daniels Midland make a lot of money from corn ethanol, and they give a lot of money to Congressional and Presidential campaigns.

What, you thought the federal government was looking out for the common good? :lol

Goliadnative
09-25-2007, 07:48 PM
An interesting article -

One Molecule Could Cure Our Addiction to Oil (http://www.wired.com/science/planetearth/magazine/15-10/ff_plant)

Wild Cobra
09-25-2007, 07:49 PM
But Cargill, ConAgra, and Archer Daniels Midland make a lot of money from corn ethanol, and they give a lot of money to Congressional and Presidential campaigns.

What, you thought the federal government was looking out for the common good? :lol
LOL...

Most of us know better than that. As long as an ignorant group of people believe that ethanol is a good answer, then politicians will milk it for all they can and get contributions at the same time.

PixelPusher
09-25-2007, 08:36 PM
But Cargill, ConAgra, and Archer Daniels Midland make a lot of money from corn ethanol, and they give a lot of money to Congressional and Presidential campaigns.

What, you thought the federal government was looking out for the common good? :lol
Why do you hate our farmers, EC?

Nbadan
09-26-2007, 01:10 AM
Hasn't someone been posting this for over a year?!?........hmmmmmmmmm...ethanol for fuel is stupid when we feed our cattle crap....and the U.S. better drop it's pre-modonna attitude about nuclear energy...unless we discover some other sort of energy, soon, it's the only reasonable answer....