Man charged with assault for coughing

[MaNuMaNiAc]

http://www.wxii12.com/news/14217423/detail.html


MORRISVILLE, N.C. -- Authorities said Thursday they have charged a man with assault on a government official after an officer said the man coughed into his face during a traffic stop.Morrisville Officer Chris Gill said in his report that Kent Kauffman looked into his eyes before "hacking" in his face three times.Kauffman said he did cough from the window of his minivan but did so toward Gill's waist.

"He says I coughed in his face," Kauffman told The News & Observer of Raleigh (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/717727.html). "But that would only work if he had a 4-foot-long face."Kauffman told the paper that Gill cuffed him and threw him into the side of the patrol car."It knocked the wind out of me," he said.Kauffman said he developed a cough after his dog died last week.Gill pulled Kauffman over Tuesday for not wearing a seat belt.Kauffman now faces a misdemeanor charge and could spend up to 60 days in jail if he's convicted in a Wake County courtroom.
Anybody else amused by the fact Kauffman was charged with assault for... coughing? :drunk

[Cry Havoc]

Cover your damn mouth. It's pretty simple.

[E20]

Cover your damn mouth. It's pretty simple.
What if you don't want to? People can cough anywhere they want.

[Samr]

The dude who coughed got what he deserved. The officer had pulled him over for not wearing a seatbelt, which in my opinion is a truly justified offense. Wear your seatbelt; save your life. Idiot.

And then he coughed in the officer's face, apparently on purpose? He deserves to get a few days in jail for his attitude alone. He could have had a contagious disease and that would have REALLY made things bad. You never know.

Like Cry Havoc said, cover your damn mouth and it wouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully getting thrown into the cop car not only knocked the wind out of him, but knocked some sense INTO him. It's not the act here, it's the motive behind it. If that motive is to insult someone who is, if you think about it, doing you a favor (yeah, so he was going to write him a ticket, but like I said, seatbelts save lives), then you deserve what you get.

[thispego]

The dude who coughed got what he deserved. The officer had pulled him over for not wearing a seatbelt, which in my opinion is a truly justified offense. Wear your seatbelt; save your life. Idiot.

And then he coughed in the officer's face, apparently on purpose? He deserves to get a few days in jail for his attitude alone. He could have had a contagious disease and that would have REALLY made things bad. You never know.

Like Cry Havoc said, cover your damn mouth and it wouldn't be a problem.

Hopefully getting thrown into the cop car not only knocked the wind out of him, but knocked some sense INTO him. It's not the act here, it's the motive behind it. If that motive is to insult someone who is, if you think about it, doing you a favor (yeah, so he was going to write him a ticket, but like I said, seatbelts save lives), then you deserve what you get.
You can't be serious. That is the quintessential stupid thing to be pulled over by the police for.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I was actually referring to the whole Kauff-man getting arrested for cough-ing thing... :p:

[Samr]

You can't be serious. That is the quintessential stupid thing to be pulled over by the police for.

I am assuming from the article that the guy was legitimately not wearing his seat belt. If he wasn't, he deserved to get ticketed. If he was and the cop just pulled him over for whatever bs reason, then the cop got what he deserved. But, I'm going with the assumption the article was correct.

Or maybe it's just me. I've seen far too many bad accidents to not believe this guy was ticketed for a reasonable cause. I have no sympathy for people complaining about having to wear a seat belt.

[thispego]

I am assuming from the article that the guy was legitimately not wearing his seat belt. If he wasn't, he deserved to get ticketed. If he was and the cop just pulled him over for whatever bs reason, then the cop got what he deserved. But, I'm going with the assumption the article was correct.

Or maybe it's just me. I've seen far too many bad accidents to not believe this guy was ticketed for a reasonable cause. I have no sympathy for people complaining about having to wear a seat belt.
I'm sure the article is accurate in that he was pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt... But do you really believe that that's not a decision that should be left up to the driver?
It's your car; you pay the bills, insurance, gas, taxes. It should be up to you if you want to wear a seatbelt. You're not putting anyone else in danger except for yourself, and again, that's your choice. The only ticketable seatbelt offense should be if a child is left unbuckled.

[Samr]

I'm sure the article is accurate in that he was pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt... But do you really believe that that's not a decision that should be left up to the driver?
It's your car; you pay the bills, insurance, gas, taxes. It should be up to you if you want to wear a seatbelt. You're not putting anyone else in danger except for yourself, and again, that's your choice. The only ticketable seatbelt offense should be if a child is left unbuckled.

In my opinion, since a person's is in danger if a seat belt is not used (same thing with motorcycles and helmets), they should be punished (ticketed etc) if that is what it takes to make them wear their seat belts; such action might save them eventually. Now obviously, you are not automatically going to get in a wreck simply because you are not wearing your seatbelt, but if you choose not to wear it, you are essentially choosing to play Russian Roulette with your life. You are placing your life in danger -- or at least, more danger than you would ordinarily be in while driving -- each and every time you hit the road without wearing a seatbelt.

Now, is "saving" a life, even if the life in question has chosen to be in that dangerous position, the responsibility of police or other authorities? In my opinion, yet. But, that's my opinion. I don't think this debate will ever find a true conclusion, just like the law regarding wearing a helmet on a motorcycle will never reach a true conclusion either. So in that regard, I do respect the opinions of the other side, because even though I do not personally agree with them, there are certainly still good points to be argued.

[E20]

I think ThisPego's favorite Metallica song would be: .....And Justice for All.

[Cry Havoc]

I'm sure the article is accurate in that he was pulled over for not wearing his seatbelt... But do you really believe that that's not a decision that should be left up to the driver?
It's your car; you pay the bills, insurance, gas, taxes. It should be up to you if you want to wear a seatbelt. You're not putting anyone else in danger except for yourself, and again, that's your choice. The only ticketable seatbelt offense should be if a child is left unbuckled.

Yeah, you're only putting yourself in danger.

Unless, you know, you crash into an electricity pole. Or another car. And instead of walking away from the accident and into an ambulance, you're hurt, in a dangerous situation, and now rescue personnel have to put their lives on the line to help extricate you and potentially others.

And don't say "well, I'm a good driver." Shit happens. Tires blow. Animals dart out in front of cars.

The second you cause injury to yourself due to not wearing your seatbelt, you aren't just raising your insurance rates. You're contributing to the statistical demographic of every person in your age/gender/ethnicity group, raising the insurance rates of other people for no other reason than they were born the same year or sex as you.

The second you choose not to put on a seatbelt, you are saying, "If I am in a serious crash, I want the chances of injury for me to skyrocket, and I want other people (us) to pay for my ass to sit in a hospital bed and get healed."

But nice try. Continue going through life thinking that your actions only affect yourself. Do you breathe smoke into other people's faces, purporting it to be your decision to smoke as well?

[TheSanityAnnex]

A bit off topic:

I find it strange here in Arizona that helmets are not required on motorcycles but eye protection is.

[Sapphire]

But you do put other people in your car in danger--if you crash and aren't wearing a seat belt, you become a fast-moving projectile and can cause injury/death to the passenger that is belted. I finally convinced my husband that he needs to wear his seatbelt even though he hates it, but damn, I don't think it's fair that I'm trying to protect myself and he may end up killing me.

[2Blonde]

A bit off topic:

I find it strange here in Arizona that helmets are not required on motorcycles but eye protection is.


Well that's because it's all fun & games until someone loses an eye, mister! :lmao

[thispego]

Yeah, you're only putting yourself in danger.

Unless, you know, you crash into an electricity pole. Or another car. And instead of walking away from the accident and into an ambulance, you're hurt, in a dangerous situation, and now rescue personnel have to put their lives on the line to help extricate you and potentially others.

And don't say "well, I'm a good driver." Shit happens. Tires blow. Animals dart out in front of cars.

The second you cause injury to yourself due to not wearing your seatbelt, you aren't just raising your insurance rates. You're contributing to the statistical demographic of every person in your age/gender/ethnicity group, raising the insurance rates of other people for no other reason than they were born the same year or sex as you.

The second you choose not to put on a seatbelt, you are saying, "If I am in a serious crash, I want the chances of injury for me to skyrocket, and I want other people (us) to pay for my ass to sit in a hospital bed and get healed."

But nice try. Continue going through life thinking that your actions only affect yourself. Do you breathe smoke into other people's faces, purporting it to be your decision to smoke as well?
your points made an ounce of sense until your last remark. second hand smoke harms others directly. My not wearing a seatbelt, and i do wear a seat belt fyi, does not harm another person no matter how you slice it. Good try though, if insurance companies weren't already fucking us maybe I would give a shit if my accident caused insurance rates to rise for others. actually... thinking back, that is a really retarded reason for why you should wear a seatbelt. You must work for an insurance agency... do you???? just curious.

Anybody who argues that people should get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in their own car is just beyond hopeless. I personally feel safer wearing a seatbelt, but if somone else finds them uncomfortable, unneccessary, uncool, whatever, then I could care less. Anyone who does care has WAY too much time on their hands and not enough of a life or problems of their own to worry about... you one of those people Cry Havoc?

[thispego]

I think ThisPego's favorite Metallica song would be: .....And Justice for All.
gotta go with One or Master of Puppets

[Spurminator]

I think it's a little ridiculous to pull someone over solely for not wearing their seatbelt. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with them adding it onto a speeding violation, but given the amount of reckless and stupid drivers out there, I'd rather the cops keep a look out for the people who are really dangerous. Seat belt violations scream of quotas.

It's also a little backwards to suggest we should have laws built around the policies of insurance companies.

Ultimately I think driving is a privilege, and there shouldn't be absolute personal freedom for someone operating a vehicle. It IS senseless to put rescue personnel in a position where they have to do more work on you because you were too lazy and stubborn to buckle up. I've gotten a ticket for it (on top of having an out-of-date registration) and I regret it, but I'm also glad some kid wasn't hit by a speeding bus while the officer was writing me up.

[thispego]

But you do put other people in your car in danger--if you crash and aren't wearing a seat belt, you become a fast-moving projectile and can cause injury/death to the passenger that is belted. I finally convinced my husband that he needs to wear his seatbelt even though he hates it, but damn, I don't think it's fair that I'm trying to protect myself and he may end up killing me.
and that's a legitimate concern, one of the many reasons why people should wear a seatbelt. do you think your husband should get a ticket though if you couldnt convince him to buckle up?

[mavs>spurs2]

Arrested for coughing...wow

officer shouldnt have been invading the guys personal space. Had he been only 2-3 feet out of the guys face he wouldn't have gotten coughed on

[Sapphire]

and that's a legitimate concern, one of the many reasons why people should wear a seatbelt. do you think your husband should get a ticket though if you couldnt convince him to buckle up?
Well, of course not! It comes out of OUR checking account. :p:

He has been stopped for it, but she only gave him a warning. I had mine on, and she must have sensed that I was going to give him a huge ration of shit, so she went easy on him. Plus it was like 8 in the morning when she stopped us--he had a cigarette and a Red Bull and she was like, "Damn, I don't wanna mess with you this morning!" She was pretty cool.

[thispego]

Well, of course not! It comes out of OUR checking account. :p:

He has been stopped for it, but she only gave him a warning. I had mine on, and she must have sensed that I was going to give him a huge ration of shit, so she went easy on him. Plus it was like 8 in the morning when she stopped us--he had a cigarette and a Red Bull and she was like, "Damn, I don't wanna mess with you this morning!" She was pretty cool.
lol, good to hear of a cop with a good head on her shoulders

[Cry Havoc]

your points made an ounce of sense until your last remark. second hand smoke harms others directly. My not wearing a seatbelt, and i do wear a seat belt fyi, does not harm another person no matter how you slice it. Good try though, if insurance companies weren't already fucking us maybe I would give a shit if my accident caused insurance rates to rise for others. actually... thinking back, that is a really retarded reason for why you should wear a seatbelt. You must work for an insurance agency... do you???? just curious.

Anybody who argues that people should get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in their own car is just beyond hopeless. I personally feel safer wearing a seatbelt, but if somone else finds them uncomfortable, unneccessary, uncool, whatever, then I could care less.

Classy response. You were the one who erred in stating that not wearing a seatbelt only affects yourself, not I. And because you admit to not caring about how your behavior affects others, who are you to tell me what to do or make presumptions about my habits and behaviors? You were free to decline the inquisition I made about you smoking, instead you chose to be pissy and insulted because I provided a logical conclusion that was counterpoint to your thoughtless words.


Anyone who does care has WAY too much time on their hands and not enough of a life or problems of their own to worry about... you one of those people Cry Havoc?

When one is nearing 4,000 posts on a sports forum, I would be a little more wary of bandying about words like wasting time or "not having enough of a life" in another persons face. Just a suggestion.


thinking back, that is a really retarded reason for why you should wear a seatbelt.

That wasn't the issue, however. You stated under no uncertain terms that failure to wear a seatbelt affects only one person. You have now been offered more than one scenario in how it CAN and DOES affect other people. Again, instead of just admitting that you were wrong in said statement, you are clinging to the idiotic notion that people should be free to do whatever they want, despite the fact that it could seriously injure or kill others (other people in the crash, the responding medics and emergency teams).


You must work for an insurance agency... do you???? just curious.

I do not. This does not impair me from seeing beyond the reach of my nose, however. Some of us actually think about the repercussions to our actions. And you might actually do that, but you have already admitted to not caring in that instance, so now I can expect little else from you as a response except more of what you've posted thus far.

[marini martini]

[QUOTE=Samr]In my opinion, since a person's is in danger if a seat belt is not used (same thing with motorcycles and helmets), they should be punished (ticketed etc) if that is what it takes to make them wear their seat belts; such action might save them eventually. Now obviously, you are not automatically going to get in a wreck simply because you are not wearing your seatbelt, but if you choose not to wear it, you are essentially choosing to play Russian Roulette with your life. You are placing your life in danger -- or at least, more danger than you would ordinarily be in while driving -- each and every time you hit the road without wearing a seatbelt.

Now, is "saving" a life, even if the life in question has chosen to be in that dangerous position, the responsibility of police or other authorities? In my opinion, yet. But, that's my opinion. I don't think this debate will ever find a true conclusion, just like the law regarding wearing a helmet on a motorcycle will never reach a true conclusion either. So in that regard, I do respect the opinions of the other side, because even though I do not personally agree with them, there are certainly still good points to be argued.[/QUOT
Wish my kid was wearing one :toast

[Samr]

Anybody who argues that people should get a ticket for not wearing a seatbelt in their own car is just beyond hopeless. I personally feel safer wearing a seatbelt, but if somone else finds them uncomfortable, unneccessary, uncool, whatever, then I could care less. Anyone who does care has WAY too much time on their hands and not enough of a life or problems of their own to worry about... you one of those people Cry Havoc?

Cry Havoc and I are arguing the same side, so I feel slightly compelled to step in here, even if the comment wasn't directed at me specifically.....


Seven weeks ago I underwent surgery to remove a brain tumor. Repeat: a brain tumor. The thing occupied about a quarter of my skull cavity, which means all the brain tissue was shoved into a space too small to occupying it. Several glands in the back of my head had already been forced down into my spinal cavity, like someone jumping out of a five-story window to avoid the fire behind them. I was so hydrocephalic (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hydrocephalic) that the doctors were afraid the fluid would literally push my brain down onto my spine. There is no rational explanation for why it didn't. I had one doctor tell me, literally, "I am surprised you are alive right now." Miracle, luck, you can call it whatever you want, because the odds still say I should be dead.

So yeah, I do care about others being safe, because I KNOW what it is like to lay in a hospital, with a somewhat reasonable chance of facing major, life-changing side-effects, if not simply facing death. I am GLAD these people who go without seat belts or otherwise make extremely dangerous and potentially life-threatening choices have not experienced what I have experienced. I am glad they are able to take these stupid risks in their lives, because that means they do not know what it is like to legitimately face (but hopefully escape) the end of it. It is something no one should ever have to go through. Assuming they can avoid it.

The one thing I kept repeating in that hospital was that I was so glad it was me in there, and not someone else in my family. I'd rather me go through something alone so long as it meant saving two more. I told my family everything I felt, everything I went through, and did my best to describe the experience (the description, though, is still a work in progress), because I wanted them to learn from me. I wanted to use my experience to help them avoid something similar. I didn't want to see anyone in my family learn to not be stupid, the hard way.

Though obviously it is impossible to equate my thoughts toward strangers with my feelings toward my family and friends, I still do care what happens to strangers, for the exact same reasons. The kind of hell I experienced simply from a few bad brain cells (the tumor was not caused by anything I did) was enough for me to handle; I cannot even imagine what it would feel like to experience hell (figuratively) for something you caused by yourself. For something you had control over. Why would you want to do that to yourself? Why would you want to put yourself through it? Why would you willingly increase the odds, exponentially, of facing a potential deadly situation just because an activity was fun at the time? Or because something "didn't feel comfortable?"

And you say that you are "only hurting yourself." That's wrong. When you put yourself in danger, when you hurt yourself, you are also hurting every. single. person who cares about you. Many members of my family broke down in tears in front of me, and many, many more did so before/after they saw me. Today I returned to work for the first time since surgery, and the first thing one of my co-workers said to me was that her two-year-old son still includes me every night in his bedtime prayers. He barely even knows me ("Mr. Sam" is "Mommy's friend," and I stop by his classroom once or twice a day), and he's certainly not old enough to register what happened, yet he was still worried enough, at the ripe old age of two (almost three), to pray for me every night. What if that happened to you? If that kid, nowhere close in age to the driving population you were referring to, understood enough to be worried about me, don't you think that older, more comprehending others could also be hurt by you, too?

One of the worst parts for me, personally, about being in such a critical situation was that I knew was HURTING OTHERS as well. And I had no control over it. When you hurt yourself, believe it or not, you do hurt others. And in some ways, that hurt is even more severe than your own. Fortunately I don't quite remember most of my really bad times those first few days; the people who saw me then remember those times very well. Think my being in pain, throwing up, moaning and asking everyone available for help hurt them? It didn't hurt me. I don't remember it.

So, imagine for a second that you are the one in the hospital. Say you broke your neck while not wearing a seat belt. Now, imagine all of the people who care for you. Your friends, your family, those at work or at school, those who even know you peripherally, like two-year-old kids. Imagine them crying. Not being able to sleep. Praying all day for you to just recover from a stupid mistake YOU MADE. Such was the case with the roommate I had during my last day in the hospital. He decided to dive off a pier without first testing the water for rocks, and had to be airlifted to the hospital. When he came into the room, he was wearing a neck brace, with apparently some kind of spinal injury and something wrong with his brain as well (we were in the neurological intensive care unit, so there was obviously more to it; there were paralyzed people all around me in that place). His girlfriend was by his side, crying. His boss had called the hospital to make sure he was alive. His mother was in her car and on her way. How many people do you think he hurt by jumping off that pier? More than just himself, I'm guessing.

Yes, I do have "way too much time on [my] hands." Because I spent nearly two months forcibly doing nothing. First month, I was in the worst pain you can possibly imagine. Two weeks LATER and I finally stopped vomiting. Obviously, I have had quite a few medical problems of my own to worry about (I won't even get into the fact that I have osteoporosis as well, or that my grandfather just got out of surgery for cancer). Yes, they are enough. As for my life, well, I think the perspective I gained by almost losing it, was enough to increase the quality and my appreciation of it by ten-fold. And I worry about keeping it more than I ever have before.


"Anyone who does care has WAY too much time on their hands and not enough of a life or problems of their own to worry about"
You need to step down, right now. Clearly, you do care just about yourself. You do care about just your safety, only. And honestly, I hope you never experience something that makes you care otherwise. Instead, I hope you can learn from the experiences of others. One day, it may save your life as well.

[Wild Cobra]

Cover your damn mouth. It's pretty simple.
Now my instict tells me that the man did this intentionally, however, what if he was afraid to move his hands?

Some police will take action if you take your hands off the steering wheel!

[thispego]

When one is nearing 4,000 posts on a sports forum, I would be a little more wary of bandying about words like wasting time or "not having enough of a life" in another persons face. Just a suggestion.

thispego
Total Posts: 3,725 (3.42 posts per day)
Cry Havoc
Total Posts: 2,051 (7.61 posts per day)

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait








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:lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Cry Havoc]

thispego
Total Posts: 3,725 (3.42 posts per day)
Cry Havoc
Total Posts: 2,051 (7.61 posts per day)

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait








ok









:lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


Is that the best you can honestly come up with? I know 7 year olds with a more functional frontal lobe.

It was YOU that called ME out for not having a life, you little pissant. You. With (nearly) double the number of posts I have, decided that you would accuse me of not having a life.

For stating that I care about people and how my actions affect them.

Wow, you know what? Laugh at me all you want. It makes it all the more apparent the kind of person you are.

I seriously doubt you even have the mental capacity (or strength of character) to respond to Samr's post. Just as well, since anything you say would undoubtedly consist of a lot of baseless accusations against the legitimacy of his story, and a slew of internet smilies to show how "superior" you are.

How dare you respond to this thread in such a fashion after that incredible post Samr just made?

Oh wait, you don't fucking care about other people. Sorry. I forgot. Carry on with your life.

[thispego]

Classy response. You were the one who erred in stating that not wearing a seatbelt only affects yourself, not I. And because you admit to not caring about how your behavior affects others, who are you to tell me what to do or make presumptions about my habits and behaviors? You were free to decline the inquisition I made about you smoking, instead you chose to be pissy and insulted because I provided a logical conclusion that was counterpoint to your thoughtless words.
Not wearing a seatbelt only affects one person and I stand by that. HAH, OK, if someone happens to get into a wreck into an electricity pole causing the wires to dangle hazardously that places the victim and paramedics in more harm than if the passenger had been buckled up.. THEN it could affect others.. lolol :lol , sweet widely applicable scenario.!! And just because insurance rises because some unbuckled driver gets in an accident isnt that individulas fault, it's the insurance companies fault. They are the ones that are fucking people over, not people who drive without their seatbelt. Disillusion yourself.

decline the inquisition you made about smoking? :lol my thoughtless words??? :lmao how much thought did your responses require?? you're trying to hard :lol :lol :lol

[Cry Havoc]

Cry Havoc and I are arguing the same side, so I feel slightly compelled to step in here, even if the comment wasn't directed at me specifically.....


Seven weeks ago I underwent surgery to remove a brain tumor. Repeat: a brain tumor. The thing occupied about a quarter of my skull cavity, which means all the brain tissue was shoved into a space too small to occupying it. Several glands in the back of my head had already been forced down into my spinal cavity, like someone jumping out of a five-story window to avoid the fire behind them. I was so hydrocephalic (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/hydrocephalic) that the doctors were afraid the fluid would literally push my brain down onto my spine. There is no rational explanation for why it didn't. I had one doctor tell me, literally, "I am surprised you are alive right now." Miracle, luck, you can call it whatever you want, because the odds still say I should be dead.

So yeah, I do care about others being safe, because I KNOW what it is like to lay in a hospital, with a somewhat reasonable chance of facing major, life-changing side-effects, if not simply facing death. I am GLAD these people who go without seat belts or otherwise make extremely dangerous and potentially life-threatening choices have not experienced what I have experienced. I am glad they are able to take these stupid risks in their lives, because that means they do not know what it is like to legitimately face (but hopefully escape) the end of it. It is something no one should ever have to go through. Assuming they can avoid it.

The one thing I kept repeating in that hospital was that I was so glad it was me in there, and not someone else in my family. I'd rather me go through something alone so long as it meant saving two more. I told my family everything I felt, everything I went through, and did my best to describe the experience (the description, though, is still a work in progress), because I wanted them to learn from me. I wanted to use my experience to help them avoid something similar. I didn't want to see anyone in my family learn to not be stupid, the hard way.

Though obviously it is impossible to equate my thoughts toward strangers with my feelings toward my family and friends, I still do care what happens to strangers, for the exact same reasons. The kind of hell I experienced simply from a few bad brain cells (the tumor was not caused by anything I did) was enough for me to handle; I cannot even imagine what it would feel like to experience hell (figuratively) for something you caused by yourself. For something you had control over. Why would you want to do that to yourself? Why would you want to put yourself through it? Why would you willingly increase the odds, exponentially, of facing a potential deadly situation just because an activity was fun at the time? Or because something "didn't feel comfortable?"

And you say that you are "only hurting yourself." That's wrong. When you put yourself in danger, when you hurt yourself, you are also hurting every. single. person who cares about you. Many members of my family broke down in tears in front of me, and many, many more did so before/after they saw me. Today I returned to work for the first time since surgery, and the first thing one of my co-workers said to me was that her two-year-old son still includes me every night in his bedtime prayers. He barely even knows me ("Mr. Sam" is "Mommy's friend," and I stop by his classroom once or twice a day), and he's certainly not old enough to register what happened, yet he was still worried enough, at the ripe old age of two (almost three), to pray for me every night. What if that happened to you? If that kid, nowhere close in age to the driving population you were referring to, understood enough to be worried about me, don't you think that older, more comprehending others could also be hurt by you, too?

One of the worst parts for me, personally, about being in such a critical situation was that I knew was HURTING OTHERS as well. And I had no control over it. When you hurt yourself, believe it or not, you do hurt others. And in some ways, that hurt is even more severe than your own. Fortunately I don't quite remember most of my really bad times those first few days; the people who saw me then remember those times very well. Think my being in pain, throwing up, moaning and asking everyone available for help hurt them? It didn't hurt me. I don't remember it.

So, imagine for a second that you are the one in the hospital. Say you broke your neck while not wearing a seat belt. Now, imagine all of the people who care for you. Your friends, your family, those at work or at school, those who even know you peripherally, like two-year-old kids. Imagine them crying. Not being able to sleep. Praying all day for you to just recover from a stupid mistake YOU MADE. Such was the case with the roommate I had during my last day in the hospital. He decided to dive off a pier without first testing the water for rocks, and had to be airlifted to the hospital. When he came into the room, he was wearing a neck brace, with apparently some kind of spinal injury and something wrong with his brain as well (we were in the neurological intensive care unit, so there was obviously more to it; there were paralyzed people all around me in that place). His girlfriend was by his side, crying. His boss had called the hospital to make sure he was alive. His mother was in her car and on her way. How many people do you think he hurt by jumping off that pier? More than just himself, I'm guessing.

Yes, I do have "way too much time on [my] hands." Because I spent nearly two months forcibly doing nothing. First month, I was in the worst pain you can possibly imagine. Two weeks LATER and I finally stopped vomiting. Obviously, I have had quite a few medical problems of my own to worry about (I won't even get into the fact that I have osteoporosis as well, or that my grandfather just got out of surgery for cancer). Yes, they are enough. As for my life, well, I think the perspective I gained by almost losing it, was enough to increase the quality and my appreciation of it by ten-fold. And I worry about keeping it more than I ever have before.


You need to step down, right now. Clearly, you do care just about yourself. You do care about just your safety, only. And honestly, I hope you never experience something that makes you care otherwise. Instead, I hope you can learn from the experiences of others. One day, it may save your life as well.


:( No words. It's wonderful that you can post to these boards today, not to mention in a completely competent and well-worded manner. Congrats on your life. You've earned it. =)

[thispego]

Is that the best you can honestly come up with? I know 7 year olds with a more functional frontal lobe.

It was YOU that called ME out for not having a life, you little pissant. You. With (nearly) double the number of posts I have, decided that you would accuse me of not having a life.

For stating that I care about people and how my actions affect them.

Wow, you know what? Laugh at me all you want. It makes it all the more apparent the kind of person you are.

I seriously doubt you even have the mental capacity (or strength of character) to respond to Samr's post. Just as well, since anything you say would undoubtedly consist of a lot of baseless accusations against the legitimacy of his story, and a slew of internet smilies to show how "superior" you are.

How dare you respond to this thread in such a fashion after that incredible post Samr just made?

Oh wait, you don't fucking care about other people. Sorry. I forgot. Carry on with your life.
wow you're lame as shit. I read all about Samr's situation in the original post he made in the club after he was done with surgery. I talk and deal with and attempt to console people with all types of tumors every day, including brain tumors. I've heard his story, he told it again and i don't feel the need to respond to that aspect of it. I get it, he wants others to live and learn from their mistakes. Thats good of him, he genuinely seemed to learn a lesson from his ordeal.

Is that enough mental capacity for you? How much mental capacity does it take to play wii all day?

[Cry Havoc]

Not wearing a seatbelt only affects one person and I stand by that. HAH, OK, if someone happens to get into a wreck into an electricity pole causing the wires to dangle hazardously that places the victim and paramedics in more harm than if the passenger had been buckled up.. THEN it could affect others.. lolol :lol , sweet widely applicable scenario.!! And just because insurance rises because some unbuckled driver gets in an accident isnt that individulas fault, it's the insurance companies fault. They are the ones that are fucking people over, not people who drive without their seatbelt. Disillusion yourself.

I'm not even going to get into the obvious logical conclusions that the auto-industry has come to regarding young people and high medical costs in vehicular accidents.

You must feel safe in your cocoon of the one-accident hypothesis. Real life doesn't work that way. By your own admission, if you saw someone get ejected from their car, you'd just drive on by, cause who gives a damn? While someone who actually cares might try to help the injured, and be struck by another car, be hurt by shrapnel, or incur any number of injuries attempting to help you from the vehicle. You clearly haven't been to too many crash scenes upon the initial collision. They are hellish, chaotic, and you don't think or act logically.

And as was posted by Samr, the effects of a life-threatening (or fatal) accident are much farther reaching than just the individual who's directly involved.


decline the inquisition you made about smoking? :lol my thoughtless words??? :lmao how much thought did your responses require?? you're trying to hard :lol :lol :lol

I cannot respond to this, as I am now questioning your grasp of the English language.

[thispego]

When one is nearing 4,000 posts on a sports forum, I would be a little more wary of bandying about words like wasting time or "not having enough of a life" in another persons face. Just a suggestion.


thispego
Total Posts: 3,725 (3.42 posts per day)
Cry Havoc
Total Posts: 2,051 (7.61 posts per day)


lolol, man that's more than twice the number of posts per day! :elephant

[Cry Havoc]

wow you're lame as shit. I read all about Samr's situation in the original post he made in the club after he was done with surgery. I talk and deal with and attempt to console people with all types of tumors every day, including brain tumors. I've heard his story, he told it again and i don't feel the need to respond to that aspect of it. I get it, he wants others to live and learn from their mistakes. Thats good of him, he genuinely seemed to learn a lesson from his ordeal.

"You need to step down, right now. Clearly, you do care just about yourself. You do care about just your safety, only. And honestly, I hope you never experience something that makes you care otherwise. Instead, I hope you can learn from the experiences of others. One day, it may save your life as well."

How about that part? Care to respond, or stick to your, "I could give a shit less about other people" philosophy?


How much mental capacity does it take to play wii all day?

Ah yes, now you've really reached the height of legitimacy. Critiquing someone's avatar is little short of trolling. Way to really drive your point home.


Is that enough mental capacity for you?

No comment.

[Cry Havoc]

lolol, man that's more than twice the number of posts per day! :elephant

And with that, I'm done with you. Clearly, there are two completely different concerns at work here. I feel sorry for you, truth be told. Ignorance might be bliss, but it certainly is ugly from the outside looking in.

[thispego]

I'm not even going to get into the obvious logical conclusions that the auto-industry has come to regarding young people and high medical costs in vehicular accidents.

You must feel safe in your cocoon of the one-accident hypothesis. Real life doesn't work that way. By your own admission, if you saw someone get ejected from their car, you'd just drive on by, cause who gives a damn? While someone who actually cares might try to help the injured, and be struck by another car, be hurt by shrapnel, or incur any number of injuries attempting to help you from the vehicle. (So the victim IS buckled in?) You clearly haven't been to too many crash scenes upon the initial collision. They are hellish, chaotic, and you don't think or act logically.

:wow holy shit I've never been spun like this!! :spin

[thispego]

And with that, I'm done with you. Clearly, there are two completely different concerns at work here. I feel sorry for you, truth be told. Ignorance might be bliss, but it certainly is ugly from the outside looking in.
Yeah, two different concerns. you want people to be ticketed for not wearing their seatbelt and I dont. Just wanted to summarize for everyone.

[thispego]

"You need to step down, right now. Clearly, you do care just about yourself. You do care about just your safety, only. And honestly, I hope you never experience something that makes you care otherwise. Instead, I hope you can learn from the experiences of others. One day, it may save your life as well."

How about that part? Care to respond, or stick to your, "I could give a shit less about other people" philosophy?

I don't see how anyone could read my responses and take them to mean that I'm indifferent to human or emotional suffering. That's ludicrous, you're pitching that because if I actually felt that way it would support your argument.

[thispego]

i thought you were done with me??? too late, i'm done with you :p:

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Where is the evidence proving that mandatory seat-beat usage, and seat-belt usage alone, has reduced highway fatalities/injuries since its inception in the late 80s?

I'll wait.

[Cry Havoc]

Where is the evidence proving that mandatory seat-beat usage, and seat-belt usage alone, has reduced highway fatalities/injuries since its inception in the late 80s?

I'll wait.

An Unenforceable “Law”

Drivers in the Southeast are less likely to buckle up than the rest of the nation’s drivers, and the fatal crash rate in the region is 20 percent higher than in other parts of the United States.

The Southeast has fewer states with “primary” seat-belt laws—which authorize officers to ticket drivers specifically for not buckling up. According to a recent NHTSA study, states with primary safety-belt laws have usage rates 10-to-15 percent higher than states with secondary laws and so have lower death and injury rates.

Source:
http://main.uab.edu/show.asp?durki=45962

In 2002, belt use in States with primary laws was 80 percent, compared with 69 percent in States without primary laws.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/airbags/buckleplan/mayplanner2003/factsheet.html

Satisfied?

Other statistics:

Safety belts when used properly reduce the number of serious traffic injuries by 50 percent and fatalities by 60-70 percent.

http://main.uab.edu/show.asp?durki=45962

The general public pays nearly three-quarters of all crash costs, primarily through insurance premiums, taxes, delays and lost productivity.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/airbags/buckleplan/mayplanner2003/factsheet.html



And for the record:

A common cause of death and injury to children in motor vehicles is being crushed by adults who are not wearing safety belts. On out of four serious injuries to passengers is caused by occupants being thrown into each other.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Our estimates of the potential savings in lives from increased belt usage are less than half the estimate used by NHTSA

http://www.stanford.edu/~leinav/pubs/RESTAT2003.pdf

[j-6]

I will trade the seatbelt law for a hands-free cellular law any day of the week. Another driver not being buckled up isn't putting my life in danger - some asshole zipping through traffic looking for a number on his Blackberry is.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Haven't there been a few studies that state hands-free is just as dangerous as using the phone itself?

Ban them all. Nobody is that fucking important.

[tlongII]

Click it. Or ticket.

[thispego]

Another driver not being buckled up isn't putting my life in danger - some asshole zipping through traffic looking for a number on his Blackberry is.
the boom has been lowered

[Bigzax]

the cop was a dick. i hope there was phleghm on his trousers...

[DarkReign]

I dont know if this is relevant, but how many car accidents have you folks been in?

Last count for me was 9, only 1 of those was I driving.

[Bigzax]

i got a ticket for no seatbelt in 91'.

went to work pissed.

coworker said..."hey, that cops saved your life"

bastard.


i fell asleep at the wheel in 93.

luckily i was wearin the seatbelt!


that cop DID save my life!


but he's still a rat bastard.

[thispego]

I dont know if this is relevant, but how many car accidents have you folks been in?

Last count for me was 9, only 1 of those was I driving.
1, driving drunk in a parking lot, by myself, with my seatbelt on.

[smeagol]

I dont know if this is relevant, but how many car accidents have you folks been in?

Last count for me was 9, only 1 of those was I driving.

Two. When I was 19. Made a left turn were I was not supposed to.

The other one I was not driving.

None were life threatening, just crashes.

I've been lucky since.

[CuckingFunt]

I dont know if this is relevant, but how many car accidents have you folks been in?

Last count for me was 9, only 1 of those was I driving.While driving, a fender bender in May 2005 and a pretty bad one in August 2006 -- neither were my fault.

When I was a kid, though, I was in the car for (I think?) four accidents.

[Spurminator]

I swerved when a dog jumped out in front of me on my way to school when I was 16. Fish tailed and ended up in a ditch.

[Samr]

I dont know if this is relevant, but how many car accidents have you folks been in?

Last count for me was 9, only 1 of those was I driving.

One. I was stopped at a light, a car ran into the back of me. And then another car ran into the back of him, pushing his car even further under the bed of my truck. In order to dislodge it, the police officer had to stand on the hood of that car, jump up and down, and yell at me to "just hit the gas HARD." You'd think the process would be a bit more technical than that, but nope. The drivers of both cars were drunk, and by drunk I mean "completely fucked in half they had to lean on the police officers to walk" kind of drunk. It was hilarious watching them try the field sobriety tests. Fortunately, I was wearing my seatbelt, and so was the girl who was with me. Our first date ended with a "bang." Oops.

[Cry Havoc]

Just one. I was 17, and driving on an old country road, moving along at a pretty good clip (the speed limit was 45). I topped a hill, and sitting right in the middle of the road, blocking both lanes, was a huge combine. I have no idea how I missed it, but I got my right side tires off in the grass and gravel, lost it, spun around, and landed in a ditch on the left side of the road, facing the direction I had been coming from. I hit pretty hard, but luckily it had rained the night before, and the side of the road was very soft. The entire car bounced about 10 feet, but there was very little damage to the car, other than the headlights had to be adjusted.

Seat belt on, and I didn't have a scratch on me. Still scary.

[nkdlunch]

one more reason to spit on a cops burger