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LEONARD
09-27-2007, 03:56 PM
:lol :lol

Talk about spewing BS...this guy not only knows NOTHING about MMA, but he didn't bother spending 5 seconds doing research either...

Mixed martial arts = legalized dog fighting
http://tigerweekly.com/article/09-26-2007/6563

By Jason Andreasen

Contrary to what that frat guy next to you says, “Ultimate Fighting” or “Mixed Martial Arts” is neither a sport nor anything but people beating the life out of one another.

Remember when everyone was up in arms about the Michael Vick fiasco? Remember how everyone rightfully pretended to vomit when they talked about dogs being driven to kill each other? Why don’t we have the same reaction when we watch two grown men pummel each other until one is so bloodied and dazed that he collapses?

The obvious answer is that the “fighters” choose to step into the ring and get their faces beaten in. While this is true, and is a credible distinction between dog fighting and mixed martial arts (MMA), the two are still very similar.

It is the primal urges that make us almost not human and drive the ratings for UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) pay-per-view specials through the roof. These same urges drive fans of dog fighting and cock fighting to trailer parks and professional football players’ houses. We want to see blood and fighters knocked unconscious by a roundhouse kick to the head, and we want to see someone standing over their bloodied body.

The fact of the matter is that the popularity of MMA is directly tied to the society that we live in on a day-to-day basis. You may have seen a primetime news special or two about “fight clubs” popping up all around the country with members being average guys who work at a desk all day long.

At night, they go into a buddy’s basement, recite some macho garbage about there being no rules and attack each other with sticks, swords and their bare knuckles.

This is in direct correlation to the fact that they have no way to let their aggression out or to let their natural testosterone levels be exercised. Instead, they end up in a “fight club” one night and parked in front of a UFC fight the next.

As for the growing popularity of MMA, now the “worldwide leader in sports” has gotten in on the act. Let’s face it: When ESPN calls something a sport, America calls it a sport. The fact that ESPN has been covering MMA events, even a little, gives them credibility in the sports world.

Instead of having a serious discussion about why this is barbaric and a sign of straight-up devolution, ESPN shows UFC commentator and comedian (yes, comedian) Joe Rogan yelling and carrying on about how graceful it is when Chuck Liddell (a popular UFC fighter) straddles another guy and relentlessly beats his face in. Seriously?

Of course, how could I rant and rave about how terrible MMA is without talking about boxing and even professional wrestling?

First of all, boxing is a completely different animal. Boxing is regulated by various entities like the Nevada State Athletic Commission; meanwhile, MMA organizations run from such regulation. Furthermore, greats like Muhammad Ali were graceful and cunning while Tito Ortiz, a popular UFC fighter, just tries to beat someone’s head in. There is no beauty, no poetry-in-motion.

As for professional wrestling, at least that is staged. The people who watch the WWE do it as much for the soap opera storylines as they do for the violence. It is scripted and choreographed. I would rather live in a culture that watches choreographed fighting rather than this barbaric and senseless human cock fighting.

The fact is that MMA, while it may contain different forms of martial arts, appears to be little more than an excuse to watch someone get the crap beaten out of them. You can try and tell me all about how I don’t understand the intricacies of the “sport,” but I know what I see.

What I see is a bunch of steroid-using guys beating each other up with little or no restriction. You call that a sport? I call it human blood-sport, and I think it is sad that it is the fastest growing “sport” in the world.

E-mail the author at [email protected]

--------------------------

and here is one of his responses to an email sent to him by an MMA fan. What a genius...

"LOL. This is great! I love coming on here and reading all the comments from you halfwit white-trash keyboard warriors who think you're "ultimate fighters". If your sport is so great, then why is it still illegal in most states? If your champions are so much better than boxers, why don't they compete in boxing where the real money is? If it's so safe, then why did the greeks and romans die in such matches? If it's so classy, then why all the hip-hop music, tattoos, and female exploitation? Huh? Oh, and for your information, I don't know of ANYONE dying in a boxing ring in the last hundred years, and I only know of ONE DEATH in highschool or pro football EVER. If you can prove me wrong, do it... because you can't."


1 football death EVER? :lol

ZERO boxing deaths? :lol (nevermind that one died just last weekend)

T Park
09-27-2007, 04:05 PM
I'm not gonna cut it down or anything.


I've tried to watch, UFC, MMa, whatever, the pay per view events on DirecTV are.

I just cant watch it. It is just beating the shit out of another person.

I know there are regulations now yes yes, but it still just is close to barefisted fighting.


Im sure thats great for you guys, but for alot of people its barbaric.


Not saying its bad or not to watch, thats just the opinion I, an some others share.

Rip-Hamilton32
09-27-2007, 04:10 PM
mma is the best damn thing on tv next to basketball

monosylab1k
09-27-2007, 04:26 PM
I'd watch more MMA if every match didn't devolve into the same boring ground n pound shit that basically looks like 2 guys practicing Kama Sutra moves with each other until one of them taps out due to excessive gayness.

On the subject, MMA isn't as dangerous as it looks. They do a pretty good job at protecting the fighters from being too badly beaten.

LEONARD
09-27-2007, 04:27 PM
Boxing and the NFL are barbaric too...and more dangerous...

oligarchy
09-27-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm not gonna cut it down or anything.


I've tried to watch, UFC, MMa, whatever, the pay per view events on DirecTV are.

I just cant watch it. It is just beating the shit out of another person.

I know there are regulations now yes yes, but it still just is close to barefisted fighting.


Im sure thats great for you guys, but for alot of people its barbaric.


Not saying its bad or not to watch, thats just the opinion I, an some others share.

Thankfully boxing is two people dancing in a ring, not repeatedly hitting each other in the head for 10 straight rounds accumulating 400-500 attempted punches. Surely, Arturro Gatti is only considered exciting because of his "footwork" and not his attempt to "slug it out."

MMA practicioners (almost all leagues) wear smaller gloves so they can use their hands to control oppents in the clinch and on the ground. It's a shame that MMA, and the barbaric acts, have managed to have ONE death (which was in Russia, in a NON-sanctioned fight from a pre-existing condition). During the same time that UFC 1 was introduced, at end of 1993, how many boxers have died in their non-barbaric sport? Somewhere close to 200.

Lucky boxing isn't as barbaric as MMA. :rolleyes

LEONARD
09-27-2007, 04:35 PM
this isn't a boxing vs mma thing...just a chance to laugh at an idiot... :lol

T Park
09-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Not a big boxing fan either.

Mostly because every fight is fixed.

T Park
09-27-2007, 04:54 PM
Boxing and the NFL are barbaric too...and more dangerous...


kicking a man to the head and laying on top of him and beating him with his fists is less barbaric than football?


I've seen it all.

monosylab1k
09-27-2007, 05:00 PM
kicking a man to the head and laying on top of him and beating him with his fists is less barbaric than football?
Running at full speed and projecting your body like a missile right into somebody else's chest or back isn't exactly inviting them to a tea party.

LEONARD
09-27-2007, 05:03 PM
kicking a man to the head and laying on top of him and beating him with his fists is less barbaric than football?

I've seen it all.

Read closer dude...

T Park
09-27-2007, 05:07 PM
Running at full speed and projecting your body like a missile right into somebody else's chest or back isn't exactly inviting them to a tea party.

But not MORE barbaric than beating another man with his fists.

I didn't say football wasn't. Not MORE than this ultimate fighting thing though.

monosylab1k
09-27-2007, 05:09 PM
But not MORE barbaric than beating another man with his fists.

I didn't say football wasn't. Not MORE than this ultimate fighting thing though.
Leonard said MORE dangerous, not MORE barbaric. read MORE closely.

E20
09-27-2007, 05:14 PM
I'd watch more MMA if every match didn't devolve into the same boring ground n pound shit that basically looks like 2 guys practicing Kama Sutra moves with each other until one of them taps out due to excessive gayness.

On the subject, MMA isn't as dangerous as it looks. They do a pretty good job at protecting the fighters from being too badly beaten.
I completely agree 100% with the bolded part. At first I thought MMA was gonna be bad ass. Punching, kicking, throws, clinches etc.......,but the name decieved me, Mixed Martial Arts, I thought I'd see a variety of fighting styles up against each other, but I don't. The only one's I see are: Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, some Muay Thai, Wrestling. And yes, it does get really boring when the match leads to them both on the ground trying to submit each other for the tap out (which happens a lot). I'd love to see a league which implents a rule in Muay Thai, you cannot be in the ground and if you throw your opponent you have to let him get back up and continue fighting. I've yearned for a leauge that is free flowing like boxing, but let's more than one martial art. Bare knuckle fighting would be optional if both fighters agree. :lol

oligarchy
09-27-2007, 05:33 PM
I completely agree 100% with the bolded part. At first I thought MMA was gonna be bad ass. Punching, kicking, throws, clinches etc.......,but the name decieved me, Mixed Martial Arts, I thought I'd see a variety of fighting styles up against each other, but I don't. The only one's I see are: Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, some Muay Thai, Wrestling. And yes, it does get really boring when the match leads to them both on the ground trying to submit each other for the tap out (which happens a lot). I'd love to see a league which implents a rule in Muay Thai, you cannot be in the ground and if you throw your opponent you have to let him get back up and continue fighting. I've yearned for a leauge that is free flowing like boxing, but let's more than one martial art. Bare knuckle fighting would be optional if both fighters agree. :lol
Each of those is a martial art in and of itself. When you combine them, it's called Mixed Martial Arts. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but what else do you want? People do use Judo, such as Karo Parysian and many Japanese fighters, but not much has shown to be an effective fighting method. You see some Karate here and there and other martial arts, but they don't stand out because MMA is so syncretic that you can't favor a particular style. Again, MMA isn't for everyone and I'm not trying to sell you on it. The problem I think alot of people see is that people find the ground game boring, as you pointed out. Some people enjoy the intricacies of the scrambles, bjj, etc. -- not everyone though.

LEONARD
09-27-2007, 05:34 PM
Leonard said MORE dangerous, not MORE barbaric. read MORE closely.

Exactly...


I completely agree 100% with the bolded part. At first I thought MMA was gonna be bad ass. Punching, kicking, throws, clinches etc.......,but the name decieved me, Mixed Martial Arts, I thought I'd see a variety of fighting styles up against each other, but I don't. The only one's I see are: Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, some Muay Thai, Wrestling. And yes, it does get really boring when the match leads to them both on the ground trying to submit each other for the tap out (which happens a lot). I'd love to see a league which implents a rule in Muay Thai, you cannot be in the ground and if you throw your opponent you have to let him get back up and continue fighting. I've yearned for a leauge that is free flowing like boxing, but let's more than one martial art. Bare knuckle fighting would be optional if both fighters agree. :lol

Checkout Chuck Norris' "World Combat League"...it's on the Vs Channel...

personally, I love the BJJ aspect of MMA...almost more than the striking. Once you start to learn and appreciate what's going on, it's pretty damn cool IMO...

2centsworth
09-27-2007, 05:41 PM
almost every sport has had a death except MMA, so I guess MMA is the safest least barbaric sport out there except for maybe extreme wrestling. Extreme wrestling has never suffered a death even though they shred their faces in barb wire and constantly body slam each other on broken glass. Nevertheless, it's safe and not barbaric.

E20
09-27-2007, 05:50 PM
That's the thing I favor striking more than the grappling and holds that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Western Wrestling has to offer. Judo, in essence, is the same, it's grappling and throwing. The only tidbit that I have a problem is the fact that so many fights are fought on the mat using submissions. I'd LOVE it if that were ruled out.

Each of those is a martial art in and of itself. When you combine them, it's called Mixed Martial Arts. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but what else do you want? People do use Judo, such as Karo Parysian and many Japanese fighters, but not much has shown to be an effective fighting method.
Still if you look at MMA, it's nearly all Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Wrestling since the round always end on the floor, I wouldn't see no difference if the matches were to start on the floor. Barely any Muay Thai is used, so in fact I will retract my statement that boxing and muay thai are used and just say Kickboxing is used, however a little bit of kickboxing is used, since most punches land when both fighters are on the ground on top of each other and I don't count that as a martial art, I just call that watered down street fighting. Also, IMO the reason many other fighting methods are ineffective like Kung Fu, Karate, Savate, TKD, even Muay Thai, because those disciplines are ineffective when nearly all fighting is done on the ground. In my honest opnion to be a good MMA fighter all you need to be good is at Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, add some wrestling in there and know how to punch, maybe kick, which is what most MMA fighters are. That's it. MMA is like the WWE except there is less body slamming and no special moves and the hits and submissions are real and there is more time spent on the ground.

Which leads me to say that at first sight I though MMA would offer more than one fighting style shown, but in fact it's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Wrestling and you're allowed to strike.

However, the fights that have more striking are great to watch. MMA should just be called 'FIGHTING', because in reality that's how a real life fight is; in the ground struggling,trying to land whatever you can, and trying to KO the guy whether it be through a submission move or strike.

desflood
09-27-2007, 06:28 PM
Barely any Muay Thai is used
Somebody introduce this guy to Anderson Silva.

Rip-Hamilton32
09-27-2007, 06:30 PM
Somebody introduce this guy to Anderson Silva.
or to rich franklin's nose lol

E20
09-27-2007, 06:38 PM
Somebody introduce this guy to Anderson Silva.
I'm not saying that Muay Thai is obsolete in MMA and not used at all, but it isn't majorly used or seen. Fact of the matter is BJJ/WW is a staple in MMA and the most used. Their will be outliers.

spurs=bling
09-27-2007, 07:53 PM
mma is the best damn thing on tv next to basketball
:tu :tu

Hell yeah it is.

And after reading that article, I have nothing to say, but that the dude is fucking ignorant about MMA.

cornbread
09-28-2007, 12:15 AM
1993 Forum.

cornbread
09-28-2007, 12:28 AM
I'd love to see a league which implents a rule in Muay Thai, you cannot be in the ground and if you throw your opponent you have to let him get back up and continue fighting.
It's called San Shou and Cung Le is one of the sport's greatest competitors. His mma and San Shou fights might be more to your liking.

LEONARD
09-28-2007, 08:24 AM
That's the thing I favor striking more than the grappling and holds that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu/Western Wrestling has to offer. Judo, in essence, is the same, it's grappling and throwing. The only tidbit that I have a problem is the fact that so many fights are fought on the mat using submissions. I'd LOVE it if that were ruled out.

I told you where to look...WCL sounds like what you're looking for...

I think it sucks, but that's just me...

LEONARD
09-28-2007, 08:25 AM
almost every sport has had a death except MMA, so I guess MMA is the safest least barbaric sport out there except for maybe extreme wrestling. Extreme wrestling has never suffered a death even though they shred their faces in barb wire and constantly body slam each other on broken glass. Nevertheless, it's safe and not barbaric.

Wow dude... :lol

oligarchy
09-28-2007, 09:36 AM
almost every sport has had a death except MMA, so I guess MMA is the safest least barbaric sport out there except for maybe extreme wrestling. Extreme wrestling has never suffered a death even though they shred their faces in barb wire and constantly body slam each other on broken glass. Nevertheless, it's safe and not barbaric.
You're twisting words here. I was merely stating the fact that someone can call MMA barbaric, yet overlook the fact that many of popular sports showcase the same violence. The fact is, these other sports are popular and have a rich history in US sports, therefore, it's seems people overlook this fact. I only stated that MMA is less dangerous, in terms of death, than boxing. So, does that make it more or less barbaric? You can be the judge of that. I'm just adding some facts to a conversation. If you want to take that as me saying MMA is the safest sport, you are wrong.

desflood
09-28-2007, 09:38 AM
I'm not saying that Muay Thai is obsolete in MMA and not used at all, but it isn't majorly used or seen.
Every time you see somebody throw an elbow or a kick, or use a knee, they're using Muay Thai.

E20
09-28-2007, 02:24 PM
Every time you see somebody throw an elbow or a kick, or use a knee, they're using Muay Thai.
They're are used in a bunch of other martial arts too. Kicking in general is used in every martial art LMAO. Elbows and Knees are seen in other martial arts, but yes they are best known in Muay Thai LMAO, but Elbow and Knee are so basic, that all fighters use them whatever discipline they use. I'm just saying you don't see someone who uses Muay Thai a lot, rather you see someone who uses BJJ, but also strikes, that's it. MMA is essentially a BJJ league that is allowed to strike.

Soul_Patch
09-28-2007, 04:53 PM
there are quite a few fights that dont end up on the ground. The fighters may clinch here and there, but they stand up through it.

Liddell v Jardine last saturday? Franklin v silva?

Good stand up striking fights...

I like em both, i get bored with it when it is clear that both fighters are on the defensive and just laying there, but the ref is there to take care of that usually.