Position rankings: Point guards

[Spurs Brazil]

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/story/10376343

Position rankings: Point guards
Sep. 27, 2007
By Tony Mejia
CBSSports.com Staff Writer
Tell Tony your opinion!



Tony Parker owns three rings while Steve Nash and Jason Kidd, the best point guards of their era, continue with none well into their 30s.

That just goes to show you how important it is to play with a quality big man, and why Nash is in a more advantageous position to earn a ring -- even out in the loaded Western Conference -- than Kidd.

Parker has carried more than his fair share of weight, but he owes his jewelry to Tim Duncan. All the Spurs do. If Amare Stoudemire can continue his progress (he was No. 1 in the centers rankings), the formula will be in place for Phoenix.

That broke my tie for the top spot of this list, because choosing between two wizards, men with four eyes and seemingly 10 hands, is never an easy choice.

One of them is just bound to curse you.

Rankings note: Players are ranked in the order of their projected impact on the coming season. Upside is taken into account, but only for the next 12 months. Whether you're a bargain or a bad contract doesn't matter.

1. Steve Nash, Phoenix: There's no longer any question about whether he's a Hall of Famer. Who cares that he's a late bloomer? That doesn't change the fact he plays the game at a genius level.

2. Jason Kidd, New Jersey: He keeps defying logic and getting better with age. Clearly, he didn't get the memo that guards who undergo microfracture surgery are supposed to be put out to pasture.

3. Tony Parker, San Antonio: The Finals MVP's quickness and ability to finish around the basket won the Spurs a championship, and his continued development will ensure they stay contenders.

4. Baron Davis, Golden State: Davis did more in Don Nelson's system than even Nelson himself expected, thriving on the chaotic, unyielding pace. If he can just stay healthy and provide similar production, he'll be in the thick of the MVP race.

5. Gilbert Arenas, Washington: Improving his leadership is the next step in his development, because leading the Wizards deep into the postseason is the only thing that's going to get him the respect he deserves.

6. Chauncey Billups, Detroit: The contract he signed to stay in Detroit might wind up being his last one, but don't put Billups in a nursing home just yet. Given how last season ended -- with critics ready to pounce and declare his decline -- expect him to come back focused.

7. Deron Williams, Utah: Williams made the Jazz's dreams come true last season by becoming everything they ever hoped he'd be -- and far ahead of schedule. Poised and tenacious, expect him on continuing to work on exploiting weaknesses. He has that elbow jumper from behind the free-throw line down pat.

8. Allen Iverson, Denver: Making the transition to pass-first point guard might be next for Iverson, regardless of how ridiculous that sounds. Carmelo Anthony and Nene are guys who need to be fed, and if Iverson can help bring them along by making the game easier, the Nuggets are going to be successful.


9. Chris Paul, New Orleans: Early reports are that the pin inserted in his left foot hasn't limited his game-changing quickness, so Hornets fans can rest easy. It would be a shame if he couldn't pick up where he left off prior to the injury.

10. Kirk Hinrich, Chicago: He's quietly one of the toughest guards in the league, and certainly one of the most annoying to play against. People overlook his athleticism, and opponents can't stand his pesky reach and relentless nature.

11. Andre Miller, Philadelphia: He handled a midseason trade for Iverson like a true professional, forcing the Sixers to reconsider moving him in another deal. You don't let go of lead guards who make the players around them better, which Philadelphia's front office views as a welcome change.

12. Jason Terry, Dallas: He plays his hybrid role superbly, juggling roles of mentor, floor general, spot-up shooter and tempo-changer better than anyone could've anticipated. Remember, in his Atlanta days, Jet had a me-first label.

13. Leandro Barbosa, Phoenix: He's electric, which is why it doesn't matter that he's not a conventional point guard. Barbosa is a human weapon, able to take a game and put it out of reach with his speed alone. That frequently takes the Suns to another level.

14. Stephon Marbury, New York: Yeah, he has remarkable skills, but somehow he's become proof that individual talent can only take you so far. He'll have another big man to try and prove people wrong with, but you can't judge his performances through stats. Only wins tell the tale.

15. Mike Bibby, Sacramento: Last season was the toughest of his career, and it remains uncertain how long he'll remain with the Kings. A change of scenery might be the best thing for him.

16. Devin Harris, Dallas: The day will come where he'll roll off your tongue when mentioning the top point guards in the league. All the physical tools are there, and he has the right people guiding his development. The sooner it happens, the more likely the Mavs are to finally win it all.

17. Raymond Felton, Charlotte: He showed up at the Orlando Summer League to get a feel for the Bobcats' new system, dominated inferior competition for a single game and called it a week. It was one of those came, saw, conquered bits, and he looked good doing it. Expect continued progress.

18. Mo Williams, Milwaukee: He suddenly became the prized free-agent catch following Billups' quick decision to stay put, and forced a bidding war between Miami and his Bucks that ultimately left him a very wealthy young man. He's quick, strong and can fill up a stat sheet, and Milwaukee hopes his best days are well ahead of him.

19. Larry Hughes, Cleveland: The Cavs were at their best when he was healthy and handling point guard duties in a big backcourt opposite Sasha Pavlovic. Hughes might not be everything Cleveland fans hoped he would be, but he's a standout defender and continues to show progress playing off LeBron James.

Schedule
Date Position
Sept. 24 Center
Sept. 25 Power forward
Sept. 26 Small forward
Sept. 27 Shooting guard
Sept. 28 Point guard
Oct. 1 Top 50
Oct. 5 Coach
20. Randy Foye, Minnesota: The Wolves are willing to live with his mistakes in exchange for personal growth, which is certainly the right move to make. Foye has worlds of ability and will do more good than harm during on-the-job training. Generating chemistry with new arrival Al Jefferson is essential.

Also considered: T.J. Ford, Toronto; Rajon Rondo, Boston; Mike Conley, Memphis; Jamaal Tinsley, Indiana; Jameer Nelson, Orlando; Jose Calderon, Toronto; Sam Cassell, L.A. Clippers; Mike James, Houston; Rafer Alston, Houston; Steve Francis, Houston; Daniel Gibson, Cleveland; Brevin Knight, L.A. Clippers; Derek Fisher, L.A. Lakers; Steve Blake, Portland; Luke Ridnour, Seattle; Jason Williams, Miami; Delonte West, Seattle; Sergio Rodriguez, Portland; Kyle Lowry, Memphis; Speedy Claxton, Atlanta; Carlos Arroyo, Orlando; Chucky Atkins, Denver; Bobby Jackson, New Orleans; Chris Duhon, Chicago; Marcus Williams, New Jersey; Damon Stoudamire, Memphis; Antonio Daniels, Washington; Jarrett Jack, Portland; Keyon Dooling, Orlando; Smush Parker, Miami; Acie Law, Atlanta.

[barbacoataco]

Since I'm new to this board I'll give y'all a taste of my standard Steve Nash rant. How can "experts" rank him #1 and describe him as a basketball genius when his defense is such a HUGE liability. I just don't get the whole "yeah his defense blows, but his offensive game makes him a league MVP" thing. Were any other back-to-back MVP's defensive liabilities? The point is--- he isn't just average on defense, he sucks hard. Every time he plays a top 10 PG he gets torched. And then people wonder why the Suns struggle against the top tier teams. He can't stay in front of opponents who are quick to the basket.
IMO to be the best player at a position in the NBA, you have to be able to play BOTH sides of the court.
Steve Nash is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA.

[Solid D]

Mike Conley Jr. will break into the top 10 within the next 3 years, tops.

[exstatic]

Since I'm new to this board I'll give y'all a taste of my standard Steve Nash rant. How can "experts" rank him #1 and describe him as a basketball genius when his defense is such a HUGE liability. I just don't get the whole "yeah his defense blows, but his offensive game makes him a league MVP" thing. Were any other back-to-back MVP's defensive liabilities? The point is--- he isn't just average on defense, he sucks hard. Every time he plays a top 10 PG he gets torched. And then people wonder why the Suns struggle against the top tier teams. He can't stay in front of opponents who are quick to the basket.
IMO to be the best player at a position in the NBA, you have to be able to play BOTH sides of the court.
Steve Nash is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA.
Nash is both the reason they are contenders, and the reason they'll never win. He drives their offense to rarefied heights, yet drags their already sorry defense off the cliff. Even if they got a new coach that knew how to spell defense, they'd still spend all of their time covering for Shallow Steve.

[Supreme_Being]

Nash is both the reason they are contenders, and the reason they'll never win. He drives their offense to rarefied heights, yet drags their already sorry defense off the cliff. Even if they got a new coach that knew how to spell defense, they'd still spend all of their time covering for Shallow Steve.


+1

[JamStone]

Looks like a pretty decent list.

No one has really ever questioned Baron Davis' talent. It's his love for fast food and cake that has led to so many injuries that people have questioned. Talent wise, I have no problem with him being where he's at. But, is this the year he stays fit and healthy enough to be that player night in and night out and justify people believing him to be that good all the time?

As for Steve Nash, while he's always been criticized for his lack of defense, I will say a few things. Last year, watching the Suns, Steve Nash's poor defense is not due to a lack of trying. I see him try to play defense. He's just not very good at it. And, while it is a fair criticism, Steve Nash's liabilities on defense are not really a detriment to his team's chances to win on any given night. What he gives up in defense, he generally makes up for it on offense, controlling tempo, getting his teammates a lot of open and easy looks, and making the Suns really effective overall. Generally, when the Suns lose, it's not because of Steve Nash's defense. On that team, in that system, those liabilities don't matter as much. Like I said, it's a fair criticism. But, he does more to help his team win than those defensive problems do to make his team lose.

Tony Parker isn't exactly a defensive stalwart either, but most people (and not just Spurs fans) would have no problem where he's ranked.

[ChumpDumper]

I think 34 is well into the 30s, but Kidd is the guy for which age will matter least.

[DieMrBond]

Leader at the point? Nash, naturally
Mike Kahn
Special to FOXSports.com, Updated 4 hours ago
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7274520

As the NBA continues to progress, perceptions continue to change. Yes, there are still specific positions in the National Basketball Association, regardless of how the transformation of athletes continues to grow. But until five 6-9 guys start on a team with equally diverse talent, there are still power forwards, small forwards, centers, shooting guards and point guards.

Above all else, the importance of the point guard has not changed. Of the final eight teams in the playoffs last season, seven had point guards ranked in the top 10 in this annual subjective ranking. The only team that didn't have a top-notch point guard was Cleveland, and Cavaliers superstar LeBron James is really a point forward who dominates the ball anyway.

In other words, it's nearly impossible be a contender in today's NBA without a special player running the team. Even then, there are two categories of point guard. There is the ever-increasing group that shoots first, and the old-school point guard who actually focuses on running the offense and making his teammates better.

And yet assist totals can't be the end-all, be-all of having the right kind of point guard. There is a big difference between driving and dishing to the perimeter as opposed to making a sweet pass off a pick and roll, hitting a cutter with a no-look bounce pass and unleashing the perfect lob on a backdoor play.

It should come as no surprise then that Phoenix Suns guard Steve Nash is first, if for no other reason than he does it all and makes every player on his team better. In many ways, he deserved his third consecutive Most Valuable Player award last season. He has blossomed into a Hall of Fame-caliber player since moving to Phoenix and hitting the age of 30.

Steve Nash averaged 18.6 points and 11.6 assists last season. ( / Getty Images)

But once you get past Nash and perennial All-Star Jason Kidd, the best young point guards are all shoot-first guys -- Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas and Deron Williams. Two other young players in the top 10 -- Chris Paul and Kirk Hinrich tend to be more of the playmaker variety. And Toronto Raptors point guard T.J. Ford also fits into that category.

Essentially that's it. Nash and Kidd are the only guys who truly play the point in the more traditional manner that Hall of Fame coach Larry Brown -- a former point guard himself -- would refer to as the right way.

That's not to diminish the play of the aforementioned shoot-first guys, or the likes of Allen Iverson, Chauncey Billups or Baron Davis. Those guys have won big and will continue to do so. And that is precisely why it is difficult to gauge how they should be rated.

Nonetheless, that doesn't prevent an old-school guy from having an opinion. So let's get on with it, looking at last year's statistics and expectations for the coming season.

1. Steve Nash, Phoenix Suns
Vitals: 33 years old, 6-foot-3, 195 pounds, 18.6 points., 11.6 assists, .532 FG, 0.8 steals, 899 FT.
Nash has proven to be in a class by himself for reasons beyond his non-step energy, court balance and vision. He is ambidextrous passing the ball and the best shooting point guard in the league. The only real question is where this guy was the previous 10 years of his career. Granted, the new rules limiting on the perimeter and blocking the path to the basket have helped all point guards, but either Suns coach Mike D'Antoni is a genius or Nash was just sandbagging until he returned to Phoenix, the team that drafted him in the first place.

2. Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs
Vitals: 25, 6-2, 180, 18.6 ppg, 5.5 apg, 1.1 spg, .520 FG, .783 FT.
It's very difficult to gauge Parker considering he has the brilliance of coach Gregg Popovich and the best interior player of this decade, Tim Duncan. Nevertheless, he has continued to improve every year and last year topped it off by being voted to the All-Star Game and selected NBA Finals MVP en route to his third ring before garnering more glory by marrying Desperate Housewives' Eva Longoria. Parker floats along the court at a speed that makes him as adept at getting into the lane and to the rim as any point guard we've ever seen.

Gilbert Arenas is the classic score-first point guard. ( / Getty Images)

3. Gilbert Arenas, Washington Wizards
Vitals: 25, 6-4, 215, 28.4 ppg, 6.0 apg, 1.9 spg, .418 FG, .844 FT.
Arenas is the classic score-first point guard, and he is amazingly good at it. Had he not hurt a knee at the end of the regular season -- causing him to miss the playoffs -- the Wizards may have made a run in the postseason to upend the Cavaliers for the conference title; the shootout between Arenas and LeBron James in 2006 makes it easy to believe there would have been a rerun in 2007. Arenas' next step is to more comfortably set up his teammates in the flow as opposed to either/or.

4. Jason Kidd, New Jersey Nets
Vitals: 34, 6-4, 210, 13.2 ppg, 9.2 apg, 1.6 spg, .406 FG, .778 FT.
There is no doubt that Kidd is an "old soul" basketball-wise. He is as good at running a team as anybody who has played the game, and led the Nets to the NBA Finals twice. His erratic shooting has always been the bone of contention from the detractors and always will be, but he is a great scorer in the clutch and always gets the ball into the right hands. It's somewhat amazing how well he's come back from microfracture knee surgery at his age ... then again, should anybody be surprised by anything Jason Kidd does? His ability to pressure the ball defensively, and grab rebounds and go very likely puts him in a class by himself in NBA history.

5. Deron Williams, Utah Jazz
Vitals: 23, 6-3, 205, 16.2 ppg, 9.3 apg, 1.0 spg, .456 FG, .767 FT.
All the wise guys who mouthed off about the Jazz taking Williams ahead of Chris Paul have shut up. Not to diminish Paul, but Williams made extraordinary gains last season and topped it off by averaging 25.8 points and 7.8 assists in the conference finals loss to the Spurs. He is big, strong, and fast -- very much like Kidd. Although he doesn't have Kidd's wizardry with the ball, he is a very good passer and has developed into a far superior shooter. He advanced so rapidly last season that he moved past Paul ... at least for now. Even more surprising has been his desire to step up as a team leader so quickly in toughness -- which coach Jerry Sloan has to love.

6. Chauncey Billups, Detroit Pistons
Vitals: 31, 6-3, 202, 17.0 ppg, 7.2 apg, 1.2 spg, .427 FG, .883 FT.
Mr. Big Shot fizzled in the '07 conference finals after a superb regular season -- much as he did the year before. The question is whether age or his teammates dragged him down late. He made uncharacteristic mistakes with the ball time and again and didn't hit many big shots either. He is very strong, tough and so cool in the clutch, so it's nearly impossible to believe he's heading downhill quickly. We're reserving judgment for now as he attempts to lead the Pistons back from consecutive disappointing playoff defaults to see if they've still got the goods to challenge in the up-for-grabs Eastern Conference.

Allen Iverson averaged 26.3 points on 44.2 percent shooting last season. ( / Getty Images)

7. Allen Iverson, Denver Nuggets
Vitals: 32, 6-0, 165, 26.3 ppg, 7.2 apg, 1.9 spg, .442 FG, .795 FT.
A.I. came over in the big trade from Philadelphia and immediately put his stamp on the Nuggets. He showed what kind of leader he is and, for the good of the team, deferred to blossoming star Carmelo Anthony. He struggled against the Spurs defense in the postseason, but that's not news. Everybody does. We'll know a lot more after Iverson gets a training camp with his new mates and coach George Karl -- even if it does require practice. If he's ever going to win an NBA title, he's in the right place because of the talent up front. So this is going to be about him taking his immense gifts to lift the games of everyone around him. At 32, he's wise enough to realize the time is now.

8. Baron Davis, Golden State Warriors
Vitals: 28, 6-3, 215, 20.1 ppg, 8.1 apg, 2.1 spg, .439 FG, .745 FT.
Nobody was more spectacular in the playoffs than B. Diddy. Then again, he's had streaks throughout his career that have been astonishing. He has been riddled with injuries -- back, knee and ankle -- that have spoiled potentially superstar seasons, and fits of selfishness that have irritated coaches and teammates alike. But as he limped around during the Warriors' upset of the Mavericks, it was apparent he's used to playing hurt, can still put up great numbers and knows how to win. Perhaps the combination of tasting national success and the unorthodox coaching of Don Nelson are the perfect storm for him to move into the superstar level. The talent certainly is there.

9. Chris Paul, New Orleans Hornets
Vitals: 22, 6-0, 175, 17.3 ppg, 8.9 apg, 1.8 spg, .437 FG, 818 FT.
Paul would rate higher had he not suffered a severe ankle injury that cost him 18 games plus time to regain his stride. But the injury greatly diminished his impact last season and the potential playoff run of the Hornets, who struggled to stay healthy as a unit. Nonetheless, Paul makes plays. He's a natural with the ball, sees the floor and is very bright and unselfish. While there's an inclination to compare him to Williams because they came out together, they have different styles.

10. Kirk Hinrich, Chicago Bulls
Vitals: 26, 6-3, 190, 16.6 ppg, 6.3 apg, 1.2 spg, .448 FG., .835 FT
After a superb regular season, Hinrich really struggled in the playoffs -- consistently in foul trouble, his frustration appeared to cause his shooting to go sideways. Still, he's a terrific young player who is probably the best defender of all the young point guards and consistently helps make his teammates better. But he's still young and gets down on himself much too easily without battling through it. That should change with maturity, though, and the Bulls will only get better as Hinrich leads them to the next level. The most encouraging thing in the big picture is what issues Hinrich has are minor and he has a discipline-oriented coach, Scott Skiles, who was a terrific point guard himself. That twosome is a great match now and looks even better for the future.

Also given consideration were: T.J. Ford, Toronto Raptors; Andre Miller, Philadelphia 76ers; Mike Bibby, Sacramento Kings; Stephon Marbury, New York Knicks; Devin Harris, Dallas Mavericks; and Raymond Felton, Charlotte Bobcats.

[himat]

Chauncey is underrated right now, but he deserves it. He needs to play up to his potential this season AND playoffs. Chauncey was only a top 10-15 PG during the regular season a few years back, but he was arguably the best playoff PG. That has flipped recently and it needs to flip back.

AI is underrated too.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

At least Tony is getting higher.

[1Parker1]

Gilbert Arenas is a shooting guard and I'd take Chris Paul or Derron Williams over him any day of the week.

And Chauncey Billups did not look too impressive last season.

[ambchang]

Parker seems to be overrated some what. But his defense seems to be underrated.
AI getting slowed down was a huge part because of Parker, then he destroyed Barbosa in the next round, and totally shut off Daniel Gibson in the Finals.

[barbacoataco]

Agree. Parker's defense has improved every year. He has the speed to keep up with anyone. In fact his speed puts pressure on opponents, and whoever is matched up with him expends a lot of energy just trying to keep up running the court. One of the reasons Lebron was ineffective in the Finals was that he was trying to cover Parker at times. In nearly every sport it is an advantage to have the fastest player on the court/field, and Parker almost always is. I don't think he's overrated at all. He's about even with Deron Williams, but has more accomplishments at this point in his career.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

OMG Randy Foye is in the top 20 at the expense of TJ Ford, Sam Cassell and Jameer Nelson is rubbish. And Larry Hughes as well? He's hardly the point guard on the Cavs. Lebron's the man.

At least Mike Kahn's list is more realistic.

[mavs>spurs2]

Id say the list should go a little more like

1. Jason Kidd- Just keeps getting better with age

2. Steve Nash- defensive liability is what keeps him from #1

3. Baron Davis- when healthy and motivated, one of the best players in the entire league

4. Deron Williams- Really turning out to be a well rounded player and gave the Spurs troubles in the playoffs

5. Allen Iverson- Still one of the most prolific scorers in the league and is learning to share the ball, averaging 7.2 assists per game last season

6. Tony Parker- Would be ranked higher, but his 5.5 apg average is very sub par for a top point guard. Needs to show that he's not so one-dimensional and learn to get his teammates involved.

7. Chauncey Billups- Coming off a not so hot playoff performance, we'll have to see how he bounces back.

8. Gilbert Arenas- More of a shooting guard than a point guard, but since he's on the list I have to include him in the top 10

9. Chris Paul- Look for him to bounce back strong from his injury.

10. Kirk Hinrich- Pesky underrated defender, good shooter and relentless competitor.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Id say the list should go a little more like

1. Jason Kidd- Just keeps getting better with age

2. Steve Nash- defensive liability is what keeps him from #1

3. Baron Davis- when healthy and motivated, one of the best players in the entire league

4. Deron Williams- Really turning out to be a well rounded player and gave the Spurs troubles in the playoffs

5. Allen Iverson- Still one of the most prolific scorers in the league and is learning to share the ball, averaging 7.2 assists per game last season

6. Tony Parker- Would be ranked higher, but his 5.5 apg average is very sub par for a top point guard. Needs to show that he's not so one-dimensional and learn to get his teammates involved.

7. Chauncey Billups- Coming off a not so hot playoff performance, we'll have to see how he bounces back.

8. Gilbert Arenas- More of a shooting guard than a point guard, but since he's on the list I have to include him in the top 10

9. Chris Paul- Look for him to bounce back strong from his injury.

10. Kirk Hinrich- Pesky underrated defender, good shooter and relentless competitor.

Parker isnt going to get 9-10apg with that team. They are too balanced. Deron ahead of Iverson????? :wtf :wtf It is going to take more than 1 playoff series against the Spurs(who let Deron have anything he wanted while they shut the rest of that pretending team down) to put Deron up that high. I cant put Deron ahead of Parker yet either. Hell at this stage I put Parker at #2 (I would put him at #3 if BD stays healthy). Also when Healthy BD>>>>Kidd in more ways than one. Kidd>Nash on D. However Nash>>>>>Kidd in a half court set. Kidd is horrible and basically worthless in a half court set. Put Nash on the Nets and they would have a great shot at making the finals. Kidd cant even do that in a shitty conference while Nash has led a depleted team to the WCF.

1.)Nash-May not be a good defender but he makes his teamates better and does so in a much tougher conference.
2.)Parker (Baron is at this spot if he can stay healthy)
3.)Baron(Parker is in this spot if B-Diddy is healthy tho)
4.)Kidd (Still a very good pg and a good defender but he cant get his team out of a shitty eastern conference and he is as good as K-Mart is in a half court set.
5.)Iverson
6.)Deron
7.)Arenas
8.)Chris Paul
9.)Billups
10.)Kirk Hinrich

[mystargtr34]

No love for GILBERT! I think hes third behind Nash and Kidd only because he is more of a 2-guard.

[ALVAREZ6]

Go to NBA.com, apparently there list is much different.


Arenas #1
Parker #12

[Indazone]

Nash is just freaky smart with eyes in the side of his head. He can lay the ball exactly where in needs to be to make the plays.

[Freeze]

Go to NBA.com, apparently there list is much different.


Arenas #1
Parker #12

that's fantasy rankings, nothing to deal with the level of play... :nope
On nba.com, manu is #14 and Barry #39 as SG, Bruce is #39 as SF, Tim #4 as PF (damn Bosh is ahead of him!!!!) :lol

http://www.nba.com/fantasy/draft_kit/home.html

[planaria]

AI getting slowed down was a huge part because of Parker

No way. It was Bruce Bowen and period.

[Freeze]

Oh, and overall, Duncan is #17th in the Top 150 players of the league :downspin:

NBA.COM overall players ranking (http://www.nba.com/fantasy/draftkit/cheatsheet_all.html)
Duncan #17¨
Parker #54
Ginobili #61
Barry #188
Bowen #205
Finley #236
Horry #240
Elson #275
Oberto #277
Vaughn #323
Udrih #365 (on 366 players ! :drunk)

[planaria]

^It is a fantasy ranking, BTW.

[dominoetx]

If Steve Nash makes others on his team better, it would stand to reason that his departure would make those he left behind worse than when he was there. Yet Dallas improved their record after Nash left. The media confuses being great with having great sizzle. Nash spectacular offensive passing is not enough to make up for his horrible defense.

[mavs>spurs2]

Parker isnt going to get 9-10apg with that team. They are too balanced. Deron ahead of Iverson????? :wtf :wtf It is going to take more than 1 playoff series against the Spurs(who let Deron have anything he wanted while they shut the rest of that pretending team down) to put Deron up that high. I cant put Deron ahead of Parker yet either. Hell at this stage I put Parker at #2 (I would put him at #3 if BD stays healthy). Also when Healthy BD>>>>Kidd in more ways than one. Kidd>Nash on D. However Nash>>>>>Kidd in a half court set. Kidd is horrible and basically worthless in a half court set. Put Nash on the Nets and they would have a great shot at making the finals. Kidd cant even do that in a shitty conference while Nash has led a depleted team to the WCF.

1.)Nash-May not be a good defender but he makes his teamates better and does so in a much tougher conference.
2.)Parker (Baron is at this spot if he can stay healthy)
3.)Baron(Parker is in this spot if B-Diddy is healthy tho)
4.)Kidd (Still a very good pg and a good defender but he cant get his team out of a shitty eastern conference and he is as good as K-Mart is in a half court set.
5.)Iverson
6.)Deron
7.)Arenas
8.)Chris Paul
9.)Billups
10.)Kirk Hinrich

Parker's assist numbers have nothing to do with the balance of the team. It's the fact that Parker has always had a shoot first mentality. The Suns are balanced with pretty even scoring all around but Nash still runs the show and gets all the assists. If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.

Although on second thought, you are probably right about ranking Iverson ahead of Williams

[anakha]

No way. It was Bruce Bowen and period.

Wasn't Bowen primarily on Anthony and Parker on Iverson?

[Cry Havoc]

Parker's assist numbers have nothing to do with the balance of the team. It's the fact that Parker has always had a shoot first mentality. The Suns are balanced with pretty even scoring all around but Nash still runs the show and gets all the assists. If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.

Although on second thought, you are probably right about ranking Iverson ahead of Williams

So you're ranking Parker lower because of his shoot-first mentality.... yet you're ranking Iverson a step ahead of him, and now considering taking him over Deron?

That's puzzling.

I think Deron will put all the talk to rest this year and become a top 3 guard in the league. He might not get the recognition until the playoffs though, because he plays much better in the clutch.

[mavs>spurs2]

So you're ranking Parker lower because of his shoot-first mentality.... yet you're ranking Iverson a step ahead of him, and now considering taking him over Deron?

That's puzzling.

I think Deron will put all the talk to rest this year and become a top 3 guard in the league. He might not get the recognition until the playoffs though, because he plays much better in the clutch.

Iverson may have a shoot-first mentality, but it's something he's improving on he did average 7.2 assists last season.

Anyway i'll take the shoot first guy that scores 30 over the shoot first guy who averages 18. If Tony can develop his game and become a better distributor, as well as continuing to work on his shot it will be a whole different ball game. I can see him and Deron Williams being the undisputed best 2 point guards in the league in a few years, with Chris Paul a distand 3rd.

[da_suns_fan__]

Parker is still riding the wave of earning a finals MVP against a vastly inferior team.

Once the season starts, people will remember that he's a quick penentrator and finisher, but nothing more.

[romain.star]

next season, we'll know if tony is a top 1-2 PG (therefore a mvp contender) or "just" an all star PG... (which is quite good too)

[ALVAREZ6]

that's fantasy rankings, nothing to deal with the level of play... :nope
On nba.com, manu is #14 and Barry #39 as SG, Bruce is #39 as SF, Tim #4 as PF (damn Bosh is ahead of him!!!!) :lol

http://www.nba.com/fantasy/draft_kit/home.htmlWow...thanks for clearing that up. I thought these dudes were actually ranking the PGs that way...I was wondering WTF they were smoking.

[Indazone]

Parker is a great guard. Horrible Fantasy player though. Never shoots 3's and his rebounds and assists are low. Scores a bunch of points though.

[yourcheatinheart]

Since I'm new to this board I'll give y'all a taste of my standard Steve Nash rant. How can "experts" rank him #1 and describe him as a basketball genius when his defense is such a HUGE liability. I just don't get the whole "yeah his defense blows, but his offensive game makes him a league MVP" thing. Were any other back-to-back MVP's defensive liabilities? The point is--- he isn't just average on defense, he sucks hard. Every time he plays a top 10 PG he gets torched. And then people wonder why the Suns struggle against the top tier teams. He can't stay in front of opponents who are quick to the basket.
IMO to be the best player at a position in the NBA, you have to be able to play BOTH sides of the court.
Steve Nash is the most overrated player in the history of the NBA.


some serious point guard penis envy over here.

[yourcheatinheart]

Looks like a pretty decent list.

No one has really ever questioned Baron Davis' talent. It's his love for fast food and cake that has led to so many injuries that people have questioned. Talent wise, I have no problem with him being where he's at. But, is this the year he stays fit and healthy enough to be that player night in and night out and justify people believing him to be that good all the time?

As for Steve Nash, while he's always been criticized for his lack of defense, I will say a few things. Last year, watching the Suns, Steve Nash's poor defense is not due to a lack of trying. I see him try to play defense. He's just not very good at it. And, while it is a fair criticism, Steve Nash's liabilities on defense are not really a detriment to his team's chances to win on any given night. What he gives up in defense, he generally makes up for it on offense, controlling tempo, getting his teammates a lot of open and easy looks, and making the Suns really effective overall. Generally, when the Suns lose, it's not because of Steve Nash's defense. On that team, in that system, those liabilities don't matter as much. Like I said, it's a fair criticism. But, he does more to help his team win than those defensive problems do to make his team lose.

Tony Parker isn't exactly a defensive stalwart either, but most people (and not just Spurs fans) would have no problem where he's ranked.
:clap

[ducks]

Parker's assist numbers have nothing to do with the balance of the team. It's the fact that Parker has always had a shoot first mentality. The Suns are balanced with pretty even scoring all around but Nash still runs the show and gets all the assists. If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.

Although on second thought, you are probably right about ranking Iverson ahead of Williams
you have no clue do you. you have no idea how spurs run their o

[ducks]

Parker is a great guard. Horrible Fantasy player though. Never shoots 3's and his rebounds and assists are low. Scores a bunch of points though.
that will chance some this year
beware of the three bomb

[1Parker1]

Anyway i'll take the shoot first guy that scores 30 over the shoot first guy who averages 18. If Tony can develop his game and become a better distributor, as well as continuing to work on his shot it will be a whole different ball game.


:lol So you'd take a guy who can score 30 on 40% shooting over a guy who averages 19 on a team with tim duncan as the primary scorer on 50%+ shooting?? That's a little illogical. As is your overreliance on statistics alone of ppg and assists per game to decide who the top 10 pg's are.

[mavs>spurs2]

:lol So you'd take a guy who can score 30 on 40% shooting over a guy who averages 19 on a team with tim duncan as the primary scorer on 50%+ shooting?? That's a little illogical. As is your overreliance on statistics alone of ppg and assists per game to decide who the top 10 pg's are.

Where did I rely on stats other than just that one comparison?

And yes, I would take AI over Parker as of today

[mavs>spurs2]

you have no clue do you. you have no idea how spurs run their o

englighten me genius

[ambchang]

No way. It was Bruce Bowen and period.
I thought Bowen was on Carmelo Anthony?

[1Parker1]

Where did I rely on stats other than just that one comparison?


6. Tony Parker- Would be ranked higher, but his 5.5 apg average is very sub par for a top point guard.


If Parker is going to be primarily a scorer as opposed to a distributor, he's going to have to average more than 17-19 ppg to be considered a top 2 or 3 point guard.


Anyway i'll take the shoot first guy that scores 30 over the shoot first guy who averages 18.

:wtf I'd say you were relying on stats alone to make your assumptions.

[mavs>spurs2]

I thought Bowen was on Carmelo Anthony?

That guy is clueless.

You are correct, Bowen was on Melo and Parker did a pretty good job on Iverson

[mavs>spurs2]

:wtf I'd say you were relying on stats alone to make your assumptions.

You were referring to the way I ranked Tony Parker? Or the entire list?

[1Parker1]

You were referring to the way I ranked Tony Parker? Or the entire list?


What difference is it? I was mainly referring to your views on Parker. You are using his stats to somehow determine how effective and good a player he is.

He averages 5.5 apg, which isn't high, but considering how the Spurs run their offense, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to have a high assist stat on this team. In Pheonix and New Jersey, Nash and Kidd are the primary ball handlers...their job is pass the perfect pass to the player for them to score. In the Spurs offense, Parker may drive to the hole, pass out to the open teammate who then passes to another open guy for the assist. When you have so many good passers on a team as the Spurs do, it's not always going to show up on some stat sheet which player made the assist which led to the assist, etc.

He averages "only" 18-19 ppg and to you he needs a higher stat than that to be considered a top 2-3 pg?? Doesn't make sense. He isn't the best player on the Spurs team, that goes to Tim Duncan. He isn't the #1 option on the team, again that goes to Tim Duncan. So it's actually pretty amazing that he can still manage 18-19 ppg on a much lower shot attempts per game than say an Allen Iverson.


You say you'd rather take a guy who can give you 30 a night than 18-19 ppg?? Again, you're just looking at stats. Did you see the first round series against Denver last season? I live in Philly and I love Iverson, but his 30 ppg that he can give you is a misleading stat. I'd say I'd rather have a guy who can give me 18-19 on 52% shooting on 14 shot attempts than a guy who's going to give me 30 on 43% shooting and 24-26 shot attempts.


Beside all that, other than arguably Jason Kidd, Parker is the only player who has shown he can be clutch in the postseason when it matters most. That's really the only stat I'd care about.

[mavs>spurs2]

What difference is it? I was mainly referring to your views on Parker. You are using his stats to somehow determine how effective and good a player he is.

He averages 5.5 apg, which isn't high, but considering how the Spurs run their offense, it'd be pretty hard for anyone to have a high assist stat on this team. In Pheonix and New Jersey, Nash and Kidd are the primary ball handlers...their job is pass the perfect pass to the player for them to score. In the Spurs offense, Parker may drive to the hole, pass out to the open teammate who then passes to another open guy for the assist. When you have so many good passers on a team as the Spurs do, it's not always going to show up on some stat sheet which player made the assist which led to the assist, etc.

He averages "only" 18-19 ppg and to you he needs a higher stat than that to be considered a top 2-3 pg?? Doesn't make sense. He isn't the best player on the Spurs team, that goes to Tim Duncan. He isn't the #1 option on the team, again that goes to Tim Duncan. So it's actually pretty amazing that he can still manage 18-19 ppg on a much lower shot attempts per game than say an Allen Iverson.


You say you'd rather take a guy who can give you 30 a night than 18-19 ppg?? Again, you're just looking at stats. Did you see the first round series against Denver last season? I live in Philly and I love Iverson, but his 30 ppg that he can give you is a misleading stat. I'd say I'd rather have a guy who can give me 18-19 on 52% shooting on 14 shot attempts than a guy who's going to give me 30 on 43% shooting and 24-26 shot attempts.


Beside all that, other than arguably Jason Kidd, Parker is the only player who has shown he can be clutch in the postseason when it matters most. That's really the only stat I'd care about.

Both Parker and Iverson averaged 1.3 points per shot last season. This means that both players score 1.3 points for every shot they take, regardless of attempts. Although Iverson is shooting more, he's also scoring more and the ratio is the same. They actually score with the same efficiency, this is because Iverson's ability to get to the line offsets his lower fg%. Of course his fg% is lower because he's not feeding off of Tim Duncan's team play and ability to draw double teams and open things up for others. Iverson has been the focal point of every defense he has gone up against in his career. Take away Tim Duncan, and you will see Parkers fg% dive into the mid 40's because he will become the focal point of the defense.

[barbacoataco]

Agree. Stats aren't everything. Assists have a lot to do with the type of offense you run and the plays that you run.

[Fast Dunk]

Stupid List, Parker better than Iverson, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas?? Bwahahahahaha

Crazy delusional Spurs fans, I know this guy Tony Mejia likes to kiss Spurs butt...

Parker don't deserve to be in that position.

[anakha]

Stupid List, Parker better than Iverson, Baron Davis, Gilbert Arenas?? Bwahahahahaha

Crazy delusional Spurs fans, I know this guy Tony Mejia likes to kiss Spurs butt...

Parker don't deserve to be in that position.

Oops, looks like louis forgot to take his meds again today.