Clinton Triangulation Backfiring

[Nbadan]

Hillary is moving to the middle to show she can win a general election, but along the line she is forgetting the force that will decide whether she is the Demo candidate or not - the progressives....

Hillary hostility growing


WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton is learning the downside of being the front-runner - more Democrats are getting antsy, finding her answers noncommittal, even Republicanesque.

At the seventh Democratic debate, staged at Dartmouth College in New Hampshire, the audience response to her "I'm not going to answer that" stance was almost hostile.

The former first lady proved critics wrong when she worked hard to be elected twice to the Senate from New York, where she had never before lived. Now she seems so confident of getting her party's presidential nomination that she is already moving to the center of the road to do battle with a Republican opponent, whoever that would be.

Centrism was her husband's strategy, and it ushered them both into the White House in 1993.

But that was before the war in Iraq. It was before 9/11. It was before President Bush began beating the drums to confront Iran about its nuclear ambitions. It was before Israel attacked Syria. It was before actuaries decided that providing Social Security to 80 million people is impossible without higher taxes or lower benefits. It was before her failed effort to reform health care probably doomed the nation to doing nothing for decades. It was before immigration erupted as a political issue.

Candidate Clinton, who voted to authorize the current war, refuses to say U.S. soldiers would be brought home before 2013, a position many Republicans hold. As American casualties mount and all-out civil war looms, the clamor among Democrats is for the troops to come home now.

Increasingly, Clinton is cautious. She calls for yet another commission to examine Social Security, without seeming to have any answers herself. She won't comment on whether Israel would be justified in bombing Iran. She says U.S. troops might have to stay in Iraq to confront al-Qaida operatives. She refuses to concede that her failure to compromise on health care was a mistake (but endorses a plan she refused to consider a decade ago). She bristles when her judgment is questioned on what she has called the most important vote of her career - invading Iraq.

In some ways it's hard to fault her strategy. Primary elections are fought on the edges, with candidates desperate to win the party's base. But in general elections, the nominees sound broader themes, desperate to attract independent voters. In an evenly divided country, nobody can be elected president without winning voters outside his/her party.

Clinton thinks that she can afford to go outside her base even before the primaries to try to convince skeptics that she could win a general election and that her high negatives ultimately won't be a factor.

The last debate was informative. It showed that John Edwards has passion and is emerging as a strong contrast to her. It showed that Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd and, to a lesser extent, Bill Richardson and even Mike Gravel and the strange Dennis Kucinich (a voting age of 16?) are making strong arguments that she is vulnerable, that her convictions are open to pragmatism, that wavering Democrats are less than overwhelmed with her positions.

Clearly, she remains the favorite to win the Democratic nomination, with polls having her in double-digit leads. But she is not strong enough to take her supporters for granted. She is not positioned well enough to refuse to answer legitimate questions. And her frequent stridency is irritating. She even refused to say whether she would back her beloved Chicago Cubs or her newfound love, the Yankees, if, supposedly, they were both in the World Series. Increasingly, this is a candidate who wants to keep her cake and eat it, too.

Most Americans have not watched the debates. That will change as they realize that we could have a Republican nominee and a Democratic nominee in just over four months.

We all know this will be a crucial election, and that foreign policy as well as the economy will be the big issues. Sometime soon we have to figure out how to fund Social Security and Medicare.

Encouragingly, fewer voters express serious reservations about electing a woman as president. But that outmoded bugaboo might be the least of her worries. Americans want a strong, capable, intelligent, experienced, thoughtful, diplomatic and decisive president.

the Cincy Post (http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070929/EDIT/709290309/1003)

Who needs whom worse? Clinton or the left?

[ChumpDumper]

The left. Wishful thinking isn't counted in the polls.

[Nbadan]

Hitlary has the early polls cause she has some deep pockets supporting her, but that doesn't always translate into votes later in the primaries....remember that it is the progressives that have been driving the funding Democratic Party and are largely responsible for the Demos overwhelming victories of both houses in 06.......

[Nbadan]

I don't think you have to look any further than the victory of Lamont over Lieberman in the Conn. Demo primaries to tell which faction controls the Democratic Party right now...

[Wild Cobra]

I don't think you have to look any further than the victory of Lamont over Lieberman in the Conn. Demo primaries to tell which faction controls the Democratic Party right now...
Agreed. That victory was primarily funded by George Soros, through Move On dot Org.

wiki: Geprge Soros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_soros)


Soros gave $3 million to the Center for American Progress, committed $5 million to MoveOn, while he and his friend Peter Lewis each gave America Coming Together $10 million. (All were groups that worked to support Democrats in the 2004 election.) On September 28, 2004 he dedicated more money to the campaign and kicked off his own multi-state tour with a speech: Why We Must Not Re-elect President Bush[22] delivered at the National Press Club in Washington, DC.


Soros was not a large donor to US political causes until the U.S. presidential election, 2004, but according to the Center for Responsive Politics, during the 2003-2004 election cycle, Soros donated $23,581,000 to various 527 Groups dedicated to defeating President Bush. Despite Soros' efforts, Bush was reelected to a second term as president in U.S. presidential election, 2004.

wiki: Joe Lienerman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Lieberman)


Lieberman sought the Democratic Party's renomination for U.S. Senate from Connecticut in 2006 but lost to Ned Lamont, a Greenwich businessman and Moveon.org sponsered canidate.

Lieberman was officially endorsed by the Connecticut Democratic Convention, which met in May. However, Lamont received 33 percent of the delegates' votes, forcing an August primary.

[ChumpDumper]

Hitlary has the early polls cause she has some deep pockets supporting her, but that doesn't always translate into votes later in the primaries....remember that it is the progressives that have been driving the funding Democratic Party and are largely responsible for the Demos overwhelming victories of both houses in 06.......Bush's incompetence RE: Iraq and moderate candidates in traditionally Republican states were responsible for the Demos overwhelming victories of both houses in 06.

This is no pregressive revolution. The sooner Democrats figure that out the sooner they will win the White House.

[xrayzebra]

Clinton moving to the center. Hey are you surprised. What
did Bill do? Same-o, same-o. But she is still a socialist, progressive
and they all know it and support her. Just like Bill was supported.
Center is where she is going to peel away votes from the
Republicans.

[Yonivore]

$5,000 for every baby is nowhere near the center. It's reminiscent of McGovern's $1,000 for every American pandering that cemented his fate against Nixon.

[exstatic]

I don't think you have to look any further than the victory of Lamont over Lieberman in the Conn. Demo primaries to tell which faction controls the Democratic Party right now...
...and the centrist Lieberman won the general election when everybody votes. Yeah, Hillary is crazy....crazy like a fox. Center is the new extreme.

[spurster]

Hitlary .......
I'm not so fond of Hilliary, but what makes her like Hitler?

[Nbadan]

...and the centrist Lieberman won the general election when everybody votes. Yeah, Hillary is crazy....crazy like a fox. Center is the new extreme.


Only because Republicans, in a Republican heavy district of Conn. crossed party lines and voted for Lieberman....how many Republicans do you think will vote for Hillary in the Demo primary? How about the General election...


http://www.cagle.com/working/070928/ohman.gif

[ChumpDumper]

How about the General election...A whole lot of women will.

[Walter Craparita]

I'd rather be taken over by radical Muslims than live in a Socialist America.

[Trainwreck2100]

Bush's incompetence RE: Iraq and moderate candidates in traditionally Republican states were responsible for the Demos overwhelming victories of both houses in 06.

This is no pregressive revolution. The sooner Democrats figure that out the sooner they will win the White House.


They didn't figure it out in 04 what makes you think they will do it now

[xrayzebra]

I'd rather be taken over by radical Muslims than live in a Socialist America.

Oh boy. I cant believe anyone would feel that way. :dizzy

[Wild Cobra]

seriously, citing wikipedia as a serious reference? :rollin

alright wild cobra i'm going to step down from my podium and dickslap you with my dick.

source: www.fec.gov
http://herndon1.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/cancomsrs/?_06+S6CT05066

Total Receipts: $20.6 million
Individual Contributions: $3.5 million
Candidate Loan: $3 million
CANDIDATE CONTRIBUTION: $14.0 million
:lol moveon.org contribution: $250 THOUSAND :lol

so...lamont gave himself 14 million, got 3.5 million in individual contributions, and took out a 3 million loan. but "moveon.org" financed him, with a single donation of 250 thousand rofl rofl

wc you're such a gingrich semen-quaffing sheep
That's only the money to the Lamont campaign. You are missing the multiple millions spent on commercials sponsored by MoveOn!

That is how MoveOn does it. Contributions are limited, but commercials... Not so limited!

[Wild Cobra]

Only because Republicans, in a Republican heavy district of Conn. crossed party lines and voted for Lieberman....how many Republicans do you think will vote for Hillary in the Demo primary? How about the General election...

This is true. The people listening to what MoveOn did to Liebermann on talk radio were so furious, that republicans voted for Liebermann in the general election. Not so much because of what MoveOn did in the end, but because the republican candidate was weak, and Liebermann, as liberal as most his stances are, was on the right side of this nations security! Better he win it than the whacko democrat that MoveOn placed in.

[ChumpDumper]

You are missing the multiple millions spent on commercials sponsored by MoveOn!
So how much was that?

[Nbadan]

Molly Ivins lays the wood to Hitlary and her triangulation....

Molly Ivins: Not. backing. Hillary.
Friday, January 20, 2006; Posted: 9:18 a.m. EST (14:18 GMT)


AUSTIN, Texas (Creators Syndicate) -- I'd like to make it clear to the people who run the Democratic Party that I will not support Hillary Clinton for president.

Enough. Enough triangulation, calculation and equivocation. Enough clever straddling, enough not offending anyone This is not a Dick Morris election. Sen. Clinton is apparently incapable of taking a clear stand on the war in Iraq, and that alone is enough to disqualify her. Her failure to speak out on Terri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag-burning, are just contemptible little dodges.

The recent death of Gene McCarthy reminded me of a lesson I spent a long, long time unlearning, so now I have to re-learn it. It's about political courage and heroes, and when a country is desperate for leadership. There are times when regular politics will not do, and this is one of those times. There are times a country is so tired of bull that only the truth can provide relief.

If no one in conventional-wisdom politics has the courage to speak up and say what needs to be said, then you go out and find some obscure junior senator from Minnesota with the guts to do it. In 1968, Gene McCarthy was the little boy who said out loud, "Look, the emperor isn't wearing any clothes." Bobby Kennedy -- rough, tough Bobby Kennedy -- didn't do it. Just this quiet man trained by Benedictines who liked to quote poetry.

What kind of courage does it take, for mercy's sake? The majority of the American people (55 percent) think the war in Iraq is a mistake and that we should get out. The majority (65 percent) of the American people want single-payer health care and are willing to pay more taxes to get it. The majority (86 percent) of the American people favor raising the minimum wage. The majority of the American people (60 percent) favor repealing Bush's tax cuts, or at least those that go only to the rich. The majority (66 percent) wants to reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending, but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

The majority (77 percent) thinks we should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment. The majority (87 percent) thinks big oil companies are gouging consumers and would support a windfall profits tax. That is the center, you fools. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?

I listen to people like Rahm Emanuel superciliously explaining elementary politics to us clueless naifs outside the Beltway ("First, you have to win elections"). Can't you even read the damn polls?

Here's a prize example by someone named Barry Casselman, who writes, "There is an invisible civil war in the Democratic Party, and it is between those who are attempting to satisfy the defeatist and pacifist left base of the party and those who are attempting to prepare the party for successful elections in 2006 and 2008."

This supposedly pits Howard Dean, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, emboldened by "a string of bad new from the Middle East ... into calling for premature retreat from Iraq," versus those pragmatic folk like Steny Hoyer, Rahm Emmanuel, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and Joe Lieberman.

Oh come on, people -- get a grip on the concept of leadership. Look at this war -- from the lies that led us into it, to the lies they continue to dump on us daily.

You sit there in Washington so frightened of the big, bad Republican machine you have no idea what people are thinking. I'm telling you right now, Tom DeLay is going to lose in his district. If Democrats in Washington haven't got enough sense to OWN the issue of political reform, I give up on them entirely.

Do it all, go long, go for public campaign financing for Congress. I'm serious as a stroke about this -- that is the only reform that will work, and you know it, as well as everyone else who's ever studied this. Do all the goo-goo stuff everybody has made fun of all these years: embrace redistricting reform, electoral reform, House rules changes, the whole package. Put up, or shut up. Own this issue, or let Jack Abramoff politics continue to run your town.

Bush, Cheney and Co. will continue to play the patriotic bully card just as long as you let them. I've said it before: War brings out the patriotic bullies. In World War I, they went around kicking dachshunds on the grounds that dachshunds were "German dogs." They did not, however, go around kicking German shepherds. The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog and explain what loving your country really means. That, or you could just piss on them elegantly, as Rep. John Murtha did. Or eviscerate them with wit (look up Mark Twain on the war in the Philippines). Or point out the latest in the endless "string of bad news."

Do not sit there cowering and pretending the only way to win is as Republican-lite. If the Washington-based party can't get up and fight, we'll find someone who can.

CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/20/ivins.hillary/index.html)

[Nbadan]

Gotta love this pic of Hitlary the AP puts on this story...


http://hosted.ap.org/photos/6/677c2064-8f5d-4d79-be84-2a7221ea937f-small.jpg
Someone que Freddy Mercury! Ummmm...he's dead sir!...


WASHINGTON (AP) -- Hillary Rodham Clinton defied the usual slow flow of summer money, tapping 100,000 new donors and outpacing all other presidential candidates in the chase for campaign cash over the past three months.

The New York senator raised $27 million in the quarter - $22 million for the primaries and $5 million for the general election - while other candidates fell victim to the traditional third-quarter dip in fundraising.

For the first time, Clinton reported attracting more new donors in a quarter than her chief fundraising rival, Illinois Sen. Barack Obama. And, for the first time, she raised more primary election money than he did.

Both candidates have now raised about $80 million each since the beginning of the year, Tuesday's updated figures showed.

Obama still has the most donors at 352,000 and leads Clinton in primary money. He has raised nearly $75 million toward the nominating contests to her $62.6 million - a figure that does not include the $10 million she transferred from her 2006 Senate campaign

MYSAspin (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/CAMPAIGN_FUNDRAISING?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=POLITICS&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2007-10-02-16-07-15)

Gotta love that...rah, rah, Hitlary..oh and by the way...

Obama still has the most donors at 352,000 and leads Clinton in primary money. He has raised nearly $75 million toward the nominating contests to her $62.6 million - a figure that does not include the $10 million she transferred from her 2006 Senate campaign

:lmao

[TLWisfoine]

She just recieved the backing of my hometown mayor Ron Dellums of Oakland, California. I am so disappointed in him, I admired that man.

[xrayzebra]

She just recieved the backing of my hometown mayor Ron Dellums of Oakland, California. I am so disappointed in him, I admired that man.


You still here, thought you were tired of politics...... :lol

[101A]

I'm not so fond of Hilliary, but what makes her like Hitler?


DUH!

H I L AND R!

[Nbadan]

I'm not so fond of Hilliary, but what makes her like Hitler?

Her position on the war on terra......(or lack of position)....she for extending the war, even into Iran if necessary, and also against the war and bring the troops home quickly....HUH?

Now that's triangulation.

:hat