Spurs vs. Magic Dec. 15th - Grades

[timvp]

Tim Duncan
Things didn’t come too easy for Duncan against the Orlando Magic, but he still finished with a huge line. In 39 minutes, he finished with 24 points, 14 rebounds and four blocks, while shooting 10-for-21 from the field and 4-for-6 at the line. The Magic did a good job of throwing a lot of manpower and defensive looks at Duncan. They were physical and made Duncan earn everything Wednesday night. If you watch Duncan on a nightly basis, you can see that he’s having his best year to date. He’s consistent on both ends of the court and is bringing more energy than ever. As long as he can stay fatigue and injury free, the Spurs should finish the regular season with around 60 wins.
GRADE: 91
DECEMBER: 89.3
SEASON: 88.4

Bruce Bowen
It wasn’t a very effective day for Bowen. Despite working hard on defense, Cuttino Mobley and Grant Hill both played well against him. Those two players combined to score 39 points on 15-for-32 shooting from the field. On offense he didn’t produce much for the Spurs, finishing with three points on 1-for-4 shooting from the field and 1-for-3 shooting from beyond the arc. Even with the nondescript play, Bowen played 32 minutes – his fourth straight games with over thirty minutes of playing time.
GRADE: 79
DECEMBER: 83.5
SEASON: 83.9

Rasho Nesterovic
Nesterovic has now played three good games in a row since being called “awful” by Gregg Popovich. For him to be successful, it all revolves around effort. If he comes to games ready and willing to put in the work, the production will come. Against Orlando, the production came on the defensive end. He finished with seven rebounds and a blocked shot in 24 minutes of playing time. Offensively, Nesterovic was aggressive but didn’t see the results. He scored only two points and finished 1-for-4 from the field and 0-for-3 from the line. Although he missed those three free throws, it was a step in the right direction. Known for being soft around the basket, those three free throw attempts were a season-high and illustrated his added aggression.
GRADE: 84
DECEMBER: 74.9
SEASON: 81.8

Manu Ginobili
It was a rollercoaster ride for Ginobili against the Magic. For much of the first three quarters, he was being ripped into by Popovich for not playing smart basketball and for playing lousy defense. Then in the fourth quarter, he came out and played like a man possessed. Ginobili scored 11 points in the fourth quarter as he led the Spurs to a comeback victory. He attacked the basket relentlessly and scored hoop after hoop when the Spurs needed it the most. Overall, he had a solid all-around game. He ended the contest with 17 points, four rebounds and four assists in 34 minutes.
GRADE: 88
DECEMBER: 84.9
SEASON: 87.7

Tony Parker
With his status questionable going into Wednesday night, Parker not only played but played pretty well. Though he was noticeably slowed by the groin injury (hitting only 6-of-15 shots from the floor), he did an adequate enough job leading the team before turning the reins over to Beno Udrih in the fourth. He had 13 points, six rebounds and three assists and played very good defense on Steve Francis. Though this was far from being one of his better games of the year, it was nice to see him fight through the injury and give the team everything he had.
GRADE: 81
DECEMBER: 87.4
SEASON: 84

Devin Brown
The more time that goes by, the more and more likely it looks like Brown is part of the regular rotation. Every time he enters the game, it seems like he makes something good happen. Against Orlando, he was one of the main components of the comeback. In 32 minutes of action off the bench, Brown scored 11 points, pulled down four rebounds, dished out two assists and recorded two steals. If he keeps playing this well, he’ll become a vital cog for the Spurs.
GRADE: 89
DECEMBER: 89.5
SEASON: 86.1

Malik Rose
Rose might be playing the most controlled, effective basketball of his career. He’s becoming the player the Spurs imagined he’d be when they signed him to that multi-year contract. Against Orlando, it was just more of the same for Rose. He totaled 12 points, seven rebounds and two steals, while hitting 4-of-6 shots from the field and 4-of-4 shots from the charity stripe. He’s taken the job of reserve backup bigman and has done nothing to relinquish it anytime soon.
GRADE: 91
DECEMBER: 85.5
SEASON: 85.9

Beno Udrih
Welcome to the NBA, Beno Udrih. In his breakout game, Udrih orchestrated the Spurs’ fourth quarter that saw them come from ten points down to win. In a word, he was incredible. He ran the offense to perfection and got the ball to everyone in the spots they wanted it. As a result, he finished with a career-high seven assists in only 19 minutes of play. In addition to his work quarterbacking the team, he also was deadly from the outside. He hit two fourth quarter threes to finish with eight points. The Spurs have found their backup point guard for the years to come.
GRADE: 96
DECEMBER: 86.9
SEASON: 83.3

[Dario]

Barry didnt play?

[Kori Ellis]

He played less than two minutes.

[timvp]

For the whole season, I've only given grades to players who play at least five minutes.

[Phenomanul]

IMO Parker should have rested.... and thus given Barry an opportunity to get out of Pop's doghouse.....

[Useruser666]

Rasho Nesterovic
Nesterovic has now played three good games in a row since being called “awful” by Gregg Popovich. For him to be successful, it all revolves around effort. If he comes to games ready and willing to put in the work, the production will come. Against Orlando, the production came on the defensive end. He finished with seven rebounds and a blocked shot in 24 minutes of playing time. Offensively, Nesterovic was aggressive but didn’t see the results. He scored only two points and finished 1-for-4 from the field and 0-for-3 from the line. Although he missed those three free throws, it was a step in the right direction. Known for being soft around the basket, those three free throw attempts were a season-high and illustrated his added aggression.
GRADE: 84
DECEMBER: 74.9
SEASON: 81.8

Even I believe this is stretching it! :lol

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Rasho Nesterovic
Nesterovic has now played three good games in a row since being called “awful” by Gregg Popovich. For him to be successful, it all revolves around effort. If he comes to games ready and willing to put in the work, the production will come. Against Orlando, the production came on the defensive end. He finished with seven rebounds and a blocked shot in 24 minutes of playing time. Offensively, Nesterovic was aggressive but didn’t see the results. He scored only two points and finished 1-for-4 from the field and 0-for-3 from the line. Although he missed those three free throws, it was a step in the right direction. Known for being soft around the basket, those three free throw attempts were a season-high and illustrated his added aggression.
GRADE: 84
DECEMBER: 74.9
SEASON: 81.8

Even I believe this is stretching it! :lol

Actually, I'd agree with LJ on this one.

On those two FG attempts to get sent to the line, Rasho was very aggressive in trying to get those putbacks (and did one of them). He really wasn't trying to earn a ticky-tack foul - he had the look of WANTING to get the put-back plus the foul.

All you can ask for from Rasho.

[Useruser666]

Actually, I'd agree with LJ on this one.

On those two FG attempts to get sent to the line, Rasho was very aggressive in trying to get those putbacks (and did one of them). He really wasn't trying to earn a ticky-tack foul - he had the look of WANTING to get the put-back plus the foul.

All you can ask for from Rasho.

Look at this statement:

That was an aggressive performance by Rasho.

Now compare that to:

That was an aggressive performance for Rasho.

Rasho had a good game the other day, this one was not very good. When 3 free throws is your season high and you're not named Massenburg there's not much to say. I'm not going Sequ on him, I just wish he could be more Malik aggressive than Rasho aggressive.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Look at this statement:

That was an aggressive performance by Rasho.

Now compare that to:

That was an aggressive performance for Rasho.

Rasho had a good game the other day, this one was not very good. When 3 free throws is your season high and you're not named Massenburg there's not much to say. I'm not going Sequ on him, I just wish he could be more Malik aggressive than Rasho aggressive.

Touche.

But! Rasho isn't going to come out and do it K-Will style in one night. He's hopefully getting some positive re-inforcement (another kick in the ass) about his performance and can get better as the season progresses.

If not, he gets another negative re-inforcement (a smack upside the head).

[whottt]

IMO Parker should have rested.... and thus given Barry an opportunity to get out of Pop's doghouse.....

He's not in the doghouse, that's the way he's going to be used.

Just look at the rotations of the Spurs in the past..he's in the slot that Kerr and Smitty occupied...and based on the PT they got once moved into that role...barring injury, this was an active game for him.

Barry's career as an NBA player who gets regular minutes, is for all intents and purproses, over.

If not traded he's currently serving out a 3 or 4 year prison sentence, his ultimate crime...Devin Brown and Beno's hot starts.

[Rummpd]

Nesterovic has now played three good games in a row since being called “awful” by Gregg Popovich. For him to be successful, it all revolves around effort. If he comes to games ready and willing to put in the work, the production will come. Against Orlando, the production came on the defensive end. He finished with seven rebounds and a blocked shot in 24 minutes of playing time. Offensively, Nesterovic was aggressive but didn’t see the results. He scored only two points and finished 1-for-4 from the field and 0-for-3 from the line. Although he missed those three free throws, it was a step in the right direction. Known for being soft around the basket, those three free throw attempts were a season-high and illustrated his added aggression.
GRADE: 84
DECEMBER: 74.9
SEASON: 81.8

Honest grade = 69 max and that number chosen for a reason - Rasho continues to be a "&*$#case".


I want this guy to do well but 1 block and 2 points stinks when you are 7 foot tall - Willis would have out played this guy over that stretch any day.
MadDoc

[Phenomanul]

He's not in the doghouse, that's the way he's going to be used.

Just look at the rotations of the Spurs in the past..he's in the slot that Kerr and Smitty occupied...and based on the PT they got once moved into that role...barring injury, this was an active game for him.

Barry's career as an NBA player who gets regular minutes, is for all intents and purproses, over.

If not traded he's currently serving out a 3 or 4 year prison sentence, his ultimate crime...Devin Brown and Beno's hot starts.


That's what ticks me off... If the Spurs are up by ten pts or more, rest your SF defenders (Bowen or Brown) and give Barry some PT alongside Duncan, Manu, and Parker... I can assure you this would only allow the Spurs to assert themselves offensively even more.... and yes, heaven forbid... to entertain the fans.

At that point Pop shouldn't be pulling Barry out of a game for a missed defensive assignment. The way I see it, if Pop allowed Barry (and Manu) to play unrestrained, yeah the other team might have a 20-25pt quarter, but we would definitely have 30+ pt quarters. It seems to me Pop is after the record for fewest ppg allowed as a team (he didn't like sharing it with last year's Pistons), and forgetting that in the end, it is the team that scores more that wins.

Am I saying that the Spurs should forget about defense... A resounding NO!!! That's who they are... all I'm saying, is that when the Spurs reach a point in the game where they have locked down the opponent defensively... give them the killer blow by unleashing your most productive offense....

I know what most people will say... Barry is simply not being productive... and to a certain extent I agree.... But why all of a sudden is a known prolific sharp-shooter worse off now that he is paired with Duncan.... Becuase Pop is being unreasonable with Barry on the defensive end.... If Barry has played marginal defense over his entire career, but managed to be productive on the offensive end, I would take what I get... It certainly would space out the floor much better for the Spurs and allow them to be more consistent on offense... we would definitely not be suffering 4th quarter breakdowns which have become the trademark of Pop basketball over the past few years.

People have been clamoring for Barry to grow a pair... I don't see that as the problem.... the main problem is that he is being asked to do something that he's never been good at... and because he stuggles with that style (and been publically reprimanded for it), it has hampered and corrupted his offensive flow.... He is too good a shooter not to be given the opportunity to be used correctly.

[ChumpDumper]

Poor Brent.

Waiting in the welfare line.

[BigVee]

Poor Brent.

Waiting in the welfare line.
Make fun if you want, but it won't be funny when we lose another playoff game 73-72.

[ChumpDumper]

Barry is the only reason the Spurs will win anything this season.

We get your POV.

Sorry, but Beno is doing everything you say Barry cna do on both sides of the ball and HELL NO I wouldn't play them together against the likes of Francis/Mobley.

Barry will get his chance without your welfare.

[whottt]

Sorry, but Beno is doing everything you say Barry cna do on both sides of the ball and HELL NO I wouldn't play them together against the likes of Francis/Mobley.

Yeah? And so was Hedo when you leaned towards him. Ate those fucking words didn't you.

And what worries me is not that you will eat your words again...for if Barry got playing time I know that would happen...what worries me is he won't get the chance.

He is not going to be better than Devin in the eyes of Pop. Ever. I don't care if he shoots 80% from three for the rest of the season. He's just not the defensive player Devin is and he's not the PG Beno is...but he is unquestionably a better shooter than either of them.

Moot point though...Pop is not going to utilize his deep bench to get the most out of it...even if it costs us a playoff series,,,even as we blow huge second half leads.





Barry will get his chance without your welfare.

No he won't. He won't ever get a chance again unless we lose talent or someone gets injured.

[BigVee]

If by getting his chance you mean that in a tight playoff game when no one can make a shot or get a call, and Duncan is being collapsed upon, Pop will throw him in there in hopes that he will somehow bail the team out, you are probably right. Sounds like a good approach to me.

[ChumpDumper]

Really, how many mpg do you think Barry will play the rest of the season?

Say it now.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah? And so was Hedo when you leaned towards him.That doesn't even mean anything. You're losing it.
And what worries me is not that you will eat your words again...for if Barry got playing time I know that would happen.I've already said he will get the PT, so again you have no point whatsoever.
He's just not the defensive player Devin is and he's not the PG Beno is.Wait, you just said player can improve. Are you flip-flopping yet again? Yes you are.
No he won't. He won't ever get a chance again unless we lose talent or someone gets injured.Make it your sig.

[ChumpDumper]

he is unquestionably a better shooter than either of themWe'll see.

It's not like either Brown or Beno ever had your precious regular time over the course of an NBA season. Maybe they ARE this good. Or maybe they could IMPROVE to make their current level of play the norm with the PT like you say players can (except Barry for some reason you can't explain).

If Barry is such a good shooter he should quit passing up open shots. Don't blame Pop for that. He doesn't pull players for taking open shots during the regular course of a game and you know it.

[whottt]

We'll see.

It's not like either Brown or Beno ever had regular time over the course of an NBA season.

Yes, let's see...although we won't be looking at what Barry does in the future...we'll be looking at what they do in the future...




If Barry is such a good shooter he should quit passing up open shots. Don't blame Pop for that. He doesn't pull players for taking open shots during the regular course of a game and you know it.

That's not why he's getting pulled. And you are stupid if you think that is why.

[BigVee]

Really, how many mpg do you think Barry will play the rest of the season?

Say it now.
If he averages 10 minutes a game from this point forward, it would only be because of an injury. Answer is: less than 10. What is your guess?

[whottt]

Agree with bigvee...rest of the season under 10 minutes a game...

And he's got some DNP CD's in his immediate future and coming farily frequently for the rest of the season, I'll say that now too.

And it doesn't matter if he doesn't give up another point all season to a player and if totally figures out the Spurs D systems.....that's what he's going to get..Because he's not as good of a defensive player as Devin...

[ChumpDumper]

Alright.

Thanks for your input.

It's a fait accompli in your book because you don't think Barry can play anything resembling good D and has no reason to anyway.

Understood.

[whottt]

It also doesn't matter how much his shooting PCT rises from this point or if we continue to struggle offensively in the second halves of games.

Barring injury or loss of talent this is his role on the Spurs for the forseeable future and if Pop says otherwise he is lying.

If I was Barry'd I'd say fuck Pop play no D and do everything in my power to force a trade, without really pissing him off, to a contending team.

[whottt]

Alright.

Thanks for your input.

It's a fait accompli in your book because you don't think Barry can play anything resembling good D and has no reason to anyway.

Understood.

I never said he couldn't play anything resembling good D...he played good D in his 2 minute stint the other night, and if he didn't I challenge you to show me where he fucked up.

He hasn't actually played bad D in quite a while...that's not why he is getting yanked.

He can't play D as good as Devin, period...yes I can say that with certainty. And I could have told you that before we signed him.

[ChumpDumper]

see above post.

[BigVee]

Alright.

Thanks for your input.

It's a fait accompli in your book because you don't think Barry can play anything resembling good D and has no reason to anyway.

Understood.

No, he will never play good enough D for Pop. There is a difference. I didn't catch your estimate of his playing time the rest of the season. Afraid to go on the record?

[ChumpDumper]

Sure -- it'll be more than 10.

Whoop de do.

Now get those trade offers ready.

[whottt]

Chump never goes on record...and if he/she/it does it's only because he is speaking for the Spurs and Pop...not what he/her/it him/her/it self thinks.

[ChumpDumper]

See above post

[whottt]

Sure -- it'll be more than 10.

Whoop de do.

Now get those trade offers ready.

So you are saying he's going to average more than 10 mins per game from this point on?

Meaning, ...he will still average over 10 mins per game for the season based on the minutes he gets from this point on?

Edit: and if the stays with the Spurs?

[BigVee]

Sure -- it'll be more than 10.

Whoop de do.

Now get those trade offers ready.

Will it be back up to the 25 he averaged in November? Pretty vague answer, and a safe one I might add. No conviction?

[ChumpDumper]

Sure. If Malik can play 18mpg after supposedly being blacklisted by Pop....

[whottt]

Will it be back up to the 25 he averaged in November? Pretty vague answer, and a safe one I might add. No conviction?

I don't think it's safe prediction...Chump just went out on a huge limb...albeit unintentionally.

Barry is going to have trouble just getting in the game for the rest of the season...much less staying in it enough to average more than 10 mins per game.

[ChumpDumper]

Will it be back up to the 25 he averaged in November?Probably not if Beno and Brown keep up their current level of play.

Is 25 your qwhottta? How many minutes would make you stop whining?

[BigVee]

Sure. If Malik can play 18mpg after supposedly being blacklisted by Pop....


When is the epiphany going to take place? On what date do you project that Barry will finally "get it" defensively and emerge from the doghouse?

[whottt]

Sure. If Malik can play 18mpg after supposedly being blacklisted by Pop....

And with no injuries?

Let me get this straight...

>10 MPG from this point on, playing for the Spurs, and not because of injury?

[ChumpDumper]

When is the epiphany going to take place? On what date do you project that Barry will finally "get it" defensively and emerge from the doghouse?According to you never so if it happens at all, you guys are sunk. You actually have to root against your boy getting PT. Awesome.

[whottt]

According to you never so if it happens at all, you guys are sunk. You actually have to root against your boy getting PT. Awesome.


No, this is why you are stupid...most of us aren't afraid of being wrong...we'd much rather see Barry get that playing time than win a bet with you.

Didn't you notice that last season I was rooting for myself to be wrong to you guys about our perimeter game? About Hedo?


I rooting for you to be right for once...


It'll mean Pop is a smarter offensive coach than I think he is or have seen him to be in the last 8 years.

[Athenea]

Devin's D is overrated. He is an ok defender. Just that.

[ChumpDumper]

No, this is why you are stupid...most of us aren't afraid of being wrong...we'd much rather see Barry get that playing time than win a bet with you.Then quit your bitching.

[BigVee]

According to you never so if it happens at all, you guys are sunk. You actually have to root against your boy getting PT. Awesome.

I asked you, I already know what I think. The question was to you.

[ChumpDumper]

You already know what I think.

RIF.

[BigVee]

Devin's D is overrated. He is an ok defender. Just that.

I agree with that. He is better than Barry no doubt, but #30 on the Bulls went around him 3 or 4 times like he was glued to the floor.

[whottt]

Then quit your bitching.

I want to make sure I have your prediction straight and am not putting words in your mouth...

Barry will average>10MPG from this point on in the season, playing for the Spurs and not due to injury?

We can prove this by just totalling up the mins in games he plays in which everyone was healthy.


And you made a big mistake by using Malik as your example..

Malik got minutes early in the season, he also started about 10-15 games in place of Duncan.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure.

This injury thing makes the whole bet moot though, you can't claim anything may or may not have happened otherwise.

I simply have more faith in Barry than you guys. This seems like the biggest deal ever to you guys. Get Jim to put $1000 on it.

[Useruser666]

I would like to see Beno numbers from Barry and Malik numbers from Rasho.

Doesn't that sound weird?

[whottt]

Bullcrap on the injury thing...

Kerr played well when Speedy was injured...he hit game winning shots...he was steady..he still got consigned to the bench and went out 30 games without playing once Speedy came back.

I can prove what what happend with injuries by looking at what does happen when those players return from injury.

It's real simple...in games where Manu, Parker, Devin and Beno are healthy, Barry will not average 10 mins per game...I'll even give you Mike Wilks and give him an injury pass. Even if he does get injured Barry won't get more than 10 per game.

And it doesn't matter if he plays the D of his life and out shoots all the other guys...

And I disagree that Devin is over-rated as a defensive player...I think he has turned into a very good defensive player and will only get better and better.

[ChumpDumper]

I can prove what what happend with injuries by looking at what does happen when those players return from injury. Really?

Day to day injuries?

Limited minutes due to injuries and subsequent recoveries?

I was doing you a favor, but if you think you can prove everything in every situation, let me know how you are going to prorate the minutes in those situations.

[whottt]

Really?

Day to day injuries?

Limited minutes due to injuries and subsequent recoveries?

I was doing you a favor, but if you think you can prove everything in every situation, let me know how you are going to prorate the minutes in those situations.

No we are talking official injuries...Official report etc. More or less...

IE the guy isn't suited up for that game or if he is on the IR. I'm not trying to be cheap here.

If the guy is suited up for the game he isn't injured and if Barry plays in a bunch of games like that and averages more than 10 min per game...you win. Those minutes count.

If Parker, Manu, Beno and Devin are not suited up....the minutes Barry plays in that game don't count.

If you want to be fair we can just not count that as a game played by Barry...it's an option.


I'm not trying to screw you here...I just want to find out which one of is right and this is the simplest way to do so.

And if that's not good enough for you...we'lll just attribute to him for those questionable games(IE someone not suited up)...the average mpg he gets from this point on when all those players are healthy...

How's that?

[ChumpDumper]

Sure.

PM Jim.

[wildbill2u]

At this point Devin is playing a better all-round game than Barry and deserves to be the next guard/forward off the bench. People get beat out in athletics all the time--and sometimes it's a surprise when a untouted youngster beats out a veteran. Pop should get props for recognizing this and not being influenced by the big rep.

I still think Barry was a great addition. Devin simply stepped up. Let's see how Barry handles it.

[Phenomanul]

At this point Devin is playing a better all-round game than Barry and deserves to be the next guard/forward off the bench. People get beat out in athletics all the time--and sometimes it's a surprise when a untouted youngster beats out a veteran. Pop should get props for recognizing this and not being influenced by the big rep.

I still think Barry was a great addition. Devin simply stepped up. Let's see how Barry handles it.


I completely agree and don't want to discredit Devin... he's an above average defender because of his youth and athleticism... and thus beat out Barry in the rotation.

But did you see what happenned at the end of the Rockets game?

Barry's experience is worth something here... though one could argue that Devin's development is equally worthy....

[Dex]

I completely agree and don't want to discredit Devin... he's an above average defender because of his youth and athleticism... and thus beat out Barry in the rotation.

But did you see what happenned at the end of the Rockets game?

Barry's experience is worth something here... though one could argue that Devin's development is equally worthy....

I know it doesn't mean much now, but Barry WAS on the court during the final ticks of that Rocket's game. In fact, he made the inbound pass to Devin Brown, with no timeouts left and the game teetering on the edge. Pop KNOWS how valuable Brent's veteran knowledge is, and I don't think he has ever discredited that.

The fact of the matter is, he still regards Devin as our best free-throw shooter, and what you do in that situation is get the ball to our best free-throw shooter.

Unfortunately for us, our best-free throw shooter happened to forget how to dribble at the time. :blah

[Dario]

He shouldnt be dribbling when he had the ball 10 sec till end and his team was up 2 points, in that situation you hold the ball and you wait for other team to make a foul or for the game to end. Lack of experience got him this time, although i just watched that game yesterday and what mcgrady did it's once in a lifetime.