For true Spurs fans(not sheister bandwagoning statboy AJ homers):Remembering a Leader

[whottt]

First...a dash of context:



Mario Elie was a Rocket who played for the Spurs for two years. Why don't we honor Dominique Wilkins or Moses Malone?



Give Elie his due, of course, but people in the organization will name AJ first.

And my personal favorite...

Note the throwing of under the bus:




It's laughable when people try to say someone else (for example Mario Elie) was more of an emotional leader for the Spurs during the 1999 season. AJ was far and away the emotional leader. Moreso than Elie. Moreso than Pop. Moreso than anyone you want to name on the Spurs..

The note the usage of the laying out of the bus crushed corpse for AJ to step on...thus elevating:



I'm not being like anything. I'm just trying to interject some reality to the AJ bashfest you and whottt are having.

If you have a problem with AJ's jersey being retired, you have a problem with Pop, Peter Holt, David Robinson, timvp, Sean Elliott, Mario Elie, the 1999 championship, gumbo and the current offense the Spurs run.




Now for the reality as it was actually occurring...when buttholes clenched, as they usually did back then, and a true leader was needed


Because my friends...you can have all the leaders, with all the mouth, talking all the shit, yelling at everyone about what they should be doing...

But sooner or later...some motherfucker is going to have to step up and knock down that fucking shot.


And with that in mind I give you:






Walking the talk

Fiery Elie has shown San Antonio the way
Click here for more on this story
Posted: Friday June 18, 1999 02:22 PM

Tough guy: Mario Elie has given the Spurs a newfound edge with his experience and demeanor. AP

By John Donovan, CNN/SI

SAN ANTONIO -- Mario Elie has a touch of gray in his stubble, a few hard years on his broad face.

He isn't so much talking at these NBA Finals as he's simply holding court. He's a teacher in this classroom, a historian, a basketball expert. He is the voice of reason in a hyped-up, over-exposed, made-for-TV extravaganza.

Elie is one man here who knows what is involved in winning an NBA championship. He did it twice as a member of the Houston Rockets earlier this decade, and he's spent much of the year clueing in his Spurs teammates on how it's done.

Now, with the Spurs on the verge of something great, Elie wants to make sure his guys don't forget his lessons.

"I'm always telling them, 'We're in the Finals now,'" says Elie, slumped comfortably in a courtside chair at the Alamodome after a practice. "We can't let up now."

The Spurs are a collection of young talent and old talent, and Elie knows exactly where he fits in that mix. He is 35 years old. He's played in Europe and in the CBA and bounced around the NBA, first in Golden State, then a stop in Portland, followed by his five-year stint in Houston and now his stay in San Antonio.

He's been there and done that. All of it.

And that's why Elie was brought into San Antonio in the first place. He was signed to provide leadership, show the youngsters about hard work -- and to help the Spurs get to the NBA Finals.

If game jerseys had sleeves, you'd know where to find Elie's heart. It's there for all to see.

Late in Game 1, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich pulled Elie in favor of Jaren Jackson. Elie steamed about it, though his displeasure was salved when Jackson nailed three 3-pointers in the fourth quarter to seal the Spurs' win.

"Mario's never happy," said point guard Avery Johnson. "Only time he is happy is maybe if you bring him some food at night, his favorite -- fried shrimp or something.

"But other than that, he's never happy. He's not happy to start the game, to come out of the game. That's something that we've had to deal with. And we like it that way."


Johnson and Elie both live in Sugarland Texas, and they spend time together in the off-season. After Elie became a free-agent this off-season, Johnson suggested to the Spurs that they go after his friend.

They did -- and the Spurs got off to a 6-8 start.

That's when Elie stepped in.

"I challenged our big guys. I told them 'As they go, we go,'" Elie said. "I said 'You guys are not playing up to your capabilities.' I said what I said. And it was the truth."

At one point, center David Robinson asked Johnson why Elie was so mad. He even wondered whether Elie was really happy in San Antonio.

Johnson told Robinson that Elie was hacked off because Robinson wasn't playing well.

"Avery told him, just like that," Elie said. "But we turned it around because of them [Robinson and Tim Duncan]. Tim took it to another level, and Dave stepped back and became the second man behind Tim."

Since the slow start, the Spurs have won 43 of their last 49 -- including 11 straight in the playoffs. More than anyone else on the team, Elie is credited with turning the previously "soft" Spurs into the power that they are.

"They have more fire, and they are hungry now," said the Knicks' Latrell Sprewell, who often played against the old Spurs when he was with Golden State. "They are playing with a confidence now that I hadn't seen when I was on the West Coast."

Elie averaged only 9.7 points a game this season. But he has been a defensive force all along, and his hard-nosed play on New York's Allan Houston in Game 1 was a big reason the Spurs won.

He was there right after Game 1, too, telling his team that it was only one game, and that the Knicks would not go quietly.

Now, of course, the Spurs are listening.

And so is everyone else.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/playoffs/news/1999/06/18/fcp_elie/



And furthermore:


http://www.canoe.ca/NBAPlayoffs99/may30_elie.html

When Elie's on his game, he's super Mario
SAN ANTONIO (AP) -- For all the talk about Tim Duncan and David Robinson, Mario Elie probably has done as much as any player to transform the San Antonio Spurs from a good team to a title contender.
He's a tough defender, he's played on two NBA championship teams in Houston and, most of all, he's brought an attitude to a team that needed one.
Elie was a major factor in holding down Isaiah Rider in San Antonio's 80-76 victory over Portland Saturday in Game 1 of the Western Conference final, and he had a crucial drive to the basket, as well as two important, free throws down the stretch.
With the experience that comes from nine previous playoff appearances, he keeps his team from ever becoming complacent.


Game 2 tonight, he tells his teammates, "will be the toughest game of the series."
"No. 1, he stays angry," Avery Johnson said. "He's one of the angriest guys on the court. On the court, he has an edge, he's bitter about a lot of things. He stays mad all the time and we kind of needed that little edge."
Coach Gregg Popovich used the same word when describing Elie's importance.
"He adds an edge to your team. He really helps you create a personality, a toughness," Popovich said. "He's somebody who doesn't accept losing. If we lose a game, he doesn't want to talk any of us. We're all bums, and that's kind of good."


Johnson said it's no coincidence San Antonio got rolling after a 6-8 start when Elie's role grew.
"We finally got Mario into the rotation," Johnson said, "and we took off from there."
Elie saw a blandness on his new team after he signed with a Spurs as a free agent before this season began.
"I thought at first when I got here that we were sort of a corporate team, just punch in and have no fun," he said.
For Elie, who had to claw his way up to the NBA by playing in Europe and the Continental Basketball Association, there was no excuse for just going through the motions.
"We had a lot of laid-back guys, and that's just not my personality," he said. "I just try to bring some fun, excitement, some chest bumping, some high-fiving, just having fun and enjoying the game. It seems like now our guys are showing a lot of emotion."
They will need it tonight against a Blazer team that remains confident even though it has lost four of five from San Antonio this season, a confidence that comes from playing the Spurs close in each loss.
Rider, who came to practice at the Alamodome on Sunday wearing a straw cowboy hat that looked as if somebody bit a hole in the brim, noted that Portland lost by just four points Saturday despite a sub-par performance by almost everyone on the team except Rasheed Wallace.
"What's so funny is we're still confident we can beat this team," Rider said. "We haven't played well at all against this team, not for 48 minutes. We feel if we play good, we'll be fine."
Wallace, whose size, long arms, jumping ability and quickness create a serious matchup problem for San Antonio, scored a career playoff-high 28 points in Game 1, but no other Blazer managed more than Rider's 13.
Portland also committed 16 turnovers, twice as many as the Spurs.
"For us to have a chance to win, we need other guys to step up and have good games also," Blazers coach Mike Dunleavy said. "That's the good thing about our team. They could be over there worrying about Rasheed all day long and it's not Rasheed tomorrow, its somebody else. That's been the strength of our team all year long. You don't necessarily know who to prepare for, who it can be on any night."
The Spurs didn't think much of their game Saturday, either. They believe they relied too much on Duncan and Robinson, who scored 21 points apiece.
"Basically, we've got to shoot the ball better," Robinson said. "We shoot 40 per cent it's going to be tough for us to put together a good game."
Still, San Antonio was good enough for its sixth straight win in the playoffs. Three more, and the Spurs have their first trip to the NBA finals.
"We had five days off. We weren't really in-synch the way we should have been," Johnson said. "But whether you win ugly, whether you win pretty, it really doesn't matter during this time of the year, as long as you win."




In rememberance of the man who truly lead the Spurs to the promised land:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAGDNHugl_U&mode=related&search=


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lkeeQcFw9E&mode=related&search=




For 17, the number that e'er should be retired, for it wears greatness, like greatness wears it :smokin


Don't worry...you can count whottt to keep pounding that bus..er...rock.

[E20]

whottt,

calm down, it's only basketball.

[whottt]

I don't care if you get David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Gregg Poppovich and the all knowing ghost of Angelo Drossos up here telling me AJ was the guy who did it...

They'd be wrong about that.


Becuase I was freaking Spurfan before that...and I know, we were soft choking bitches with AJ leading us...and so was Gregg Poppovich.


If they can't see it...their problem.


Mario was the guy who did it. Period.


End of argument.

[Kori Ellis]

Are you in love with seeing yourself in print so much that you needed a new thread? :lol

[whottt]

whottt,

calm down, it's only basketball.



And your mother was only a mother....

[timvp]

Just because you got repeatedly owned in the AJ thread doesn't mean you need to start a new thread. New thread, same result.

Now I guess I'll actually read your post . . .

[E20]

:lol

[SRJ]

I don't deny that Mario Elie had a huge impact on the team's psyche, how could I? I saw for myself that the Spurs were a different team in 1999. But two years out of a long career does not a Spur make.

If anything, Elie reinforced the type of attitude AJ had. One guy saying it is just one guy saying it. Two guys saying it starts a movement.

Had he played here as long as Avery played here, I'd be fine with the retirement of #17 as well.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't care if you get David Robinson, Tim Duncan, Gregg Poppovich and the all knowing ghost of Angelo Drossos up here telling me AJ was the guy who did it...

They'd be wrong about that.


Becuase I was freaking Spurfan before that...and I know, we were soft choking bitches with AJ leading us...and so was Gregg Poppovich.


If they can't see it...their problem.


Mario was the guy who did it. Period.


End of argument.
I agree. The idea that AJ did anything other than finally find a way to motivate David Robinson out of being a playoff doormat is revisionist. Even my wife knows who the leader of the '99 team is, and she only follows the Spurs grudgingly.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

For once, just once, I wish an "End of argument" from whottt would actually come to fruition.

[Obstructed_View]

I don't deny that Mario Elie had a huge impact on the team's psyche, how could I? I saw for myself that the Spurs were a different team in 1999. But two years out of a long career does not a Spur make.

If anything, Elie reinforced the type of attitude AJ had. One guy saying it is just one guy saying it. Two guys saying it starts a movement.

Had he played here as long as Avery played here, I'd be fine with the retirement of #17 as well.
Um, I seem to recall the other guys on the team getting tired of AJ and five-oh constantly trying to convert them to Christianity. Again: Revisionist.

[Kori Ellis]

Whottt makes me laugh harder than anyone when he gets flipped into Crazy Whottt mode.

Thank goodness the season is almost here. So we can have arguments about stuff that matters :lol

[SRJ]

Um, I seem to recall the other guys on the team getting tired of AJ and five-oh constantly trying to convert them to Christianity. Again: Revisionist.

Um, who the fuck are you that you recall how annoyed they all were?

[ChumpDumper]

Shyster

Main Entry:
shy·ster Listen to the pronunciation of shyster
Pronunciation:
\ˈshīs-tər\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
probably from German Scheisser, literally, defecator
Date:
1844

: a person who is professionally unscrupulous especially in the practice of law or politics : pettifoggerThis isn't spelling smack. I actually had to look it up because I wasn't sure. I posted it because it is now my great hope that whottt uses the word "pettifogger" in the near future.

[Obstructed_View]

Um, who the fuck are you that you recall how annoyed they all were?
Um, I'm someone who the fuck knows how to read a newspaper or listen to the radio. I'm not someone who makes shit up about AJ just because he hit a fifteen footer for a fucking change.

[Obstructed_View]

I posted it because it is now my great hope that whottt uses the word "pettifogger" in the near future.
:lmao :lmao

Gotta wipe Pepsi off the monitor now. Holy crap. :lol

[timvp]

First of all, those who read the other thread will see that whottt admitted to liking Dallas more than the Spurs. How can this Dallas homer tell Spurs fans who should or shouldn't have their number retired? He needs to stick to his real and admitted favorite team.

Secondly, why must he pull an attention whore move and start a new thread? He was getting his azz handed to him in the old thread. I guess he's going to call in his local Victoria posters to come prop him up in a new thread so he won't feel completely owned. Not only did he lose a bet to timvp regarding AJ, he gets obliterated for his poor takes on top of it.

In the other thread, whottt called David Robinson soft and a choker in his attempt to trash AJ. Then he claimed that AJ's lack of three-point shooting was a championship killer. When it was pointed out that multiple championship teams won titles without making more than two three pointers in their entire playoff run, he backtracked like the Dallas fan he is.

Now he thinks some weak bolding of some Elie fluff pieces will distract those from venturing into the other thread where his ownage was utterly embarrassing for fellow Dallas fans.


Elie is one man here who knows what is involved in winning an NBA championship. He did it twice as a member of the Houston Rockets earlier this decade, and he's spent much of the year clueing in his Spurs teammates on how it's done. :lmao @ whottt bolding that quote. He expected AJ, Robinson or Duncan to know how to win championships before they ever won a championship?

Classic.


After Elie became a free-agent this off-season, Johnson suggested to the Spurs that they go after his friend. Why wasn't this bolded? By propping Elie, you are basically propping AJ's recruiting skills. Which is still a skill.

Even more reason to raise that number to the rafters.


In rememberance of the man who truly lead the Spurs to the promised land:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAGD...related&search=


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lke...related&search=You are a disgrace to fans of the Spurs who like Dallas teams more.

How can you say Mario freakin' Elie "truly lead" the Spurs to the 1999 championship. The two players who "truly lead" the Spurs to the championship were David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Elie, much like AJ, was just along for the ride.

I don't know why you suddenly hate David Robinson. You used to be a fan but now you call him soft and a choker. Then you say it was Elie who "truly lead" the Spurs.

David Robinson and Tim Duncan deserve better.

[SRJ]

I made shit up now?

You're whott plus spelling, minus ellipses.

[whottt]

I don't deny that Mario Elie had a huge impact on the team's psyche, how could I? I saw for myself that the Spurs were a different team in 1999. But two years out of a long career does not a Spur make.

If anything, Elie reinforced the type of attitude AJ had. One guy saying it is just one guy saying it. Two guys saying it starts a movement.

Had he played here as long as Avery played here, I'd be fine with the retirement of #17 as well.




No no no no no no...


AJ was like a mosquito...because he talked a bunch of shit, got in guys faces knew it all...

But he never did Jack shit on the court...


Thus he was annoying pest that only made losing suck worse...




Mario Elie OTOH, talked a bunch of shit, got in guys faces, and knew it all...


Plus he fucking knocked shots when it matters...and that was what was most needed.







We don't win without Mario...period. If you want to give AJ credit for bringing in Mario...fine. But Mario was the catalyst.


And when he left we became soft choking bitches again...



Until we got a similar guy who called himself Jack...it wasn't rememberance...it was lightning striking twice...with guys who could hit those damn shots.

[timvp]

And when he left we became soft choking bitches again...There he goes again.

Lame.

[whottt]

For 17, the number that e'er should be retired, for it wears greatness, like greatness wears it


It does get boring being 35 laps ahead of everyone else...

[Obstructed_View]

I made shit up now?

You're whott plus spelling, minus ellipses.
No, you implied that I made shit up. I just said you are being revisionist. There were reports (plural) that guys in the locker room were getting tired of AJ trying to hold prayer meetings on the bus and in the locker room. Perhaps that was earlier or later than '99, though. I do remember the reports though.

AJ was still the captain, as he had been for a number of years, but Elie was the de-facto leader of that squad during the championship run. Since you are arguing that AJ's body of work, rather than his contribution to the championship team, is why you think he should have his number retired, then I really have no argument with you beyond what I perceived as an unintentional misrepresentation of the mood of the team.

[FromWayDowntown]

This isn't spelling smack. I actually had to look it up because I wasn't sure. I posted it because it is now my great hope that whottt uses the word "pettifogger" in the near future.

My firm handled a case not too long ago in which a judge on the Fifth Circuit issued an order accusing opposing counsel of engaging in pettifoggery.

I had to look it up.

[timvp]

It does get boring watching Dancing With Stars 35 times a week...

[SRJ]

No, you implied that I made shit up. I just said you are being revisionist.

Where below is the revisionism?


I don't deny that Mario Elie had a huge impact on the team's psyche, how could I? I saw for myself that the Spurs were a different team in 1999. But two years out of a long career does not a Spur make.

If anything, Elie reinforced the type of attitude AJ had. One guy saying it is just one guy saying it. Two guys saying it starts a movement.

Had he played here as long as Avery played here, I'd be fine with the retirement of #17 as well.

As to the reports you read, I don't recall them. I'm not saying that I did not read those reports - I may have and they left no impression upon me. My filter is different from yours, clearly.

whott remark withdrawn.

[Kamnik]

Whottt makes me laugh harder than anyone when he gets flipped into Crazy Whottt mode.
:lol

I will for ever remember how he tried to persuade me and a bunch of others how America is 1000x more diverse than Europe. (being dead serious)

I could dislike his ignorat self but i just love to see him get owned by timvp in every possible thread. :toast

[Obstructed_View]

whott remark withdrawn.
That's all I was shooting for. It pains me enough having to agree with him.

[SRJ]

That's all I was shooting for. It pains me enough having to agree with him.

:lmao

[FromWayDowntown]

Until we got a similar guy who called himself Jack...it wasn't rememberance...it was lightning striking twice...with guys who could hit those damn shots.

Which, of course, explains both 2005 and 2007.

[saporvida]

i still think aj's a joke. riding coat tails is all i saw aj doing in his tenure. it doesn't take 10 yrs to motivate a friend, especially not for bball. all you gotta do is shit talk them and they strive to get better.

anyhow, like i have stated all along. aj is mediocre and def not worthy of flying high in the rafters of the at&t building.

[whottt]

Which, of course, explains both 2005 and 2007.



By then you had a solid core, 3 key returning players...not to mention that Horry guy. Who also has a habit of hitting shots...not that that's important or anything.

[whottt]

I love timvp because I hate America :toast


Well said, ass.

[FromWayDowntown]

By then you had a solid core, 3 key returning players...not to mention that Horry guy. Who also has a habit of hitting shots...not that that's important or anything.

But I thought it was Mario Elie's leadership and Stephen Jackson's leadership that made a solid core into a championship winner. Now you're saying that a solid core with 3 (or 4) key returning players and a guy who hits big shots is actually enough.

Which of those is your argument?

[whottt]

Where below is the revisionism?



As to the reports you read, I don't recall them. I'm not saying that I did not read those reports - I may have and they left no impression upon me. My filter is different from yours, clearly.

whott remark withdrawn.


Pssst...


Slick, for a guy who likes to run spelling smack...might be a good idea for you to spell my name correctly...don't you dare say it's typo.



Anyway...spelling smack instantly marks you as the worst kind of loser on a message board...I'd be willing to bet I have a better vocabulary and grammar skills than you, if it were put to the test, not to mention a better education...


I can tell by your pomous ass blog that you seem to think is cutting edge but really reads like third grade stat analysis that you are in fact...a snob with an undeservedly high opinon of his own limited analytical skills...

You must feel pretty inferior if you think a message board post is indicative of formal writing ability...

IOW, you're a loser, it's a message board, I have a wireless keyboard, and AJ didn't have J.

[Kamnik]

Well said, ass.

I hate ignorant people from America, not America!

Guess what.... i hate ignorant people from elsewhere too! :toast

And i dont like timvp any more than others... i just like the part of him owning you in every second thread on ST. :clap

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm not even sure why I'm bothering here -- I can see this one turning into Robert Horry as a first-ballot, no-brainer Hall of Famer before this thread is done.

No rafters for Avery Johnson, but certain enshrinement for Robert Horry (who will likely never have his number retired by any franchise).

I'm also sure we couldn't have had any of these arguments in that other thread.

[Brutalis]

AJ is bullshit. He was no more productive than Brent fucking Barry. You long time Spurs fans (like me) hump this dude for no reason even after he stole our style and everything and gave it to the Mavs. So we reward his shitty play and theft by retiring his number.

Yeah real classy.

[mookie2001]

I hate ignorant people from America, not America!

Guess what.... i hate ignorant people from elsewhere too! :toast

And i dont like timvp any more than others... i just like the part of him owning you in every second thread on ST. :clapso then youre with smeagol


are you against the 2nd ammendment too?

[whottt]

I hate ignorant people from America, not America!

Guess what.... i hate ignorant people from elsewhere too! :toast

And i dont like timvp any more than others... i just like the part of him owning you in every second thread on ST. :clap


The funny thing is you run of the mill Euros don't have a clue why you are offensive to my American sensibilities...while I know exactly why I am offensive to you...and derive great pleasure from it.

[Mister Sinister]

The funny thing is you run of the mill Euros don't have a clue why you are offensive to my American sensibilities...while I know exactly why I am offensive to you...and derive great pleasure from it.
And fellow Americans who don't like fitting the stereotype can only shake their heads, look skyward and say, "Why? Why? Why do you do this?", asking <Insert deity> for a reason that idiots like you are allowed to communicate.

[Kamnik]

so then youre with smeagol


are you against the 2nd ammendment too?

dont know what smeagol is saying about whott or anything (remember his nickname but not what he writes)

2nd ammendment? that crap about every person be allowed to have weapons?

yeah... i believe that is simply retarded law

[whottt]

But I thought it was Mario Elie's leadership and Stephen Jackson's leadership that made a solid core into a championship winner. Now you're saying that a solid core with 3 (or 4) key returning players and a guy who hits big shots is actually enough.

Which of those is your argument?


I'm saying Robert Horry, Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson could all hit shots...


While AJ couldn't hit hte fucking side of a barn...no matter how much of a fucking bossy annoying know it all he was..er is.

[whottt]

And fellow Americans who don't like fitting the stereotype can only shake their heads, look skyward and say, "Why? Why? Why do you do this?", asking <Insert deity> for a reason that idiots like you are allowed to communicate.


And I'd say you have no idea who founded this country...I promise you, it wasn't a bunch of guys sucking dicks...

[Kamnik]

The funny thing is you run of the mill Euros don't have a clue why you are offensive to my American sensibilities...while I know exactly why I am offensive to you...and derive great pleasure from it.

What.... im offensive if i dont agree with anything presumably american?

Anyways, i admit i dont know many things.... unlike you.

Per say before i met you i never realised trailors have internet connection in USA. :toast

[FromWayDowntown]

even after he stole our style and everything and gave it to the Mavs.

I wasn't aware that those things were trade secrets -- why is AJ a traitor, but someone like Mike Brown or P.J. Carlesimo isn't? Should A.J. have been made to never take a job in the NBA until he either got a job with the Spurs or promised to approach the game from an entirely different philosophical standpoint?

If anything, his plaigarism of the Spurs' approach to think is suggestive of the fact that AJ has a deep respect for Pop and the Spurs' organization.

As a competitor, he's entitled to use whatever he wishes in his effort to be successful -- almost every coach in every sport has drawn his philosophical approach to his game from other coaches and organizations; almost every coach in every sport plaigarizes the things that work for other teams. It's not as if AJ is somehow the first person to ever copy a successful system and then try to beat its innovator using that system.

The absolute last reason to contest the retirement of AJ's jersey, it seems to me, is the fact that he's coaching the Mavericks.

[Kamnik]

And I'd say you have no idea who founded this country...I promise you, it wasn't a bunch of guys sucking dicks...

:lol :lol :lol

Thats funny.... even though i dont think you realise how many of most famous people in world in the past sucked on things. :reading

[SRJ]

Pssst...


Slick, for a guy who likes to run spelling smack...might be a good idea for you to spell my name correctly...don't you dare say it's typo.

How can I be expected to spell a non-existent word correctly? It could be whut, what, or hwat for all I know.


Anyway...spelling smack instantly marks you as the worst kind of loser on a message board...I'd be willing to bet I have a better vocabulary and grammar skills than you, if it were put to the test, not to mention a better education...

Where is my spelling smack? Or is this another whottt (got it right, happy?) strawman?


I can tell by your pomous ass blog that you seem to think is cutting edge but really reads like third grade stat analysis that you are in fact...a snob with an undeservedly high opinon of his own limited analytical skills...

The fact that you hate it only endorses its quality.


You must feel pretty inferior if you think a message board post is indicative of formal writing ability...

Say, will you be my analyst?


IOW, you're a loser, it's a message board, I have a wireless keyboard, and AJ didn't have J.

You are bad ass, my friend.

[whottt]

What.... im offensive if i dont agree with anything presumably american?

Anyways, i admit i dont know many things.... unlike you.


Let me tell what you don't know....

#1. You feel inferior...main problem.
#2. You don't realize movies aren't real.







Per say before i met you i never realised trailors have internet connection in USA. :toast


Only in America babyyyyyyyy.


What I realize is that all I have to do...is act like you, and your own hatred will begin to validate your bigoted stereotypical view of my country...

It's like taking candy from a baby.

[Kamnik]

Let me tell what you don't know....

#1. You feel inferior...main problem.
#2. You don't realize movies aren't real.


1# Sorry but i would need to go broke, loose my legs, get castrated and move to central Africa to feel inferior to you.

And if you think about America in general... many countries in Europe have a much better living enviroment and standard than USA. I live in one at the moment per say.

2# Sorry again, but i dont watch to hollywood movies.
(few good exceptions)

And if i would watch them and believed they were real i would really feel inferior, which i dont. :toast

[FromWayDowntown]

I'm saying Robert Horry, Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson could all hit shots...


While AJ couldn't hit hte fucking side of a barn...no matter how much of a fucking bossy annoying know it all he was..er is.

But that's an entirely different argument -- not surprisingly, I guess.

Of course, the immediate counter is: under a minute to play on June 25, 1999 at Madison Square Garden.

It's also useful to note, I suppose, that AJ's field goal percentage in the 1999 playoffs was better than the field goal percentages rolled up by Robert Horry in 2005, Mario Elie in 1999, and Stephen Jackson in 2003:

FG%
49% -- Johnson, 1999
45% -- Horry, 2005
41% -- Jackson, 2003
38% -- Elie, 1999

Now, I can hear your argument -- but AJ didn't shoot as much as those guys, so it's no wonder that he had a higher FG%. Wrong again:

Field Goal Attempts per Game
11.0 -- Johnson, 1999
10.9 -- Jackson, 2003
7.1 -- Horry, 2005
6.6 -- Elie, 1999


About the only thing the guys you've mentioned did more successfully than AJ was hit 3's, although in the 1999 playoffs, AJ hit 1 three pointer and Mario Elie hit a grand total of 8. Comparing AJ's numbers of threes to those rolled up by Robert Horry or Stephen Jackson is like comparing Tim Duncan's rebounding numbers to Beno Udrih's; there is something to be said for a guy who knew his limitations as a player and didn't try to do things he couldn't.

Even without the 3's, AJ missed being out on the best scorer in that bunch by a whisker:

Scoring Averages
12.8 -- Jackson, 2003
12.6 -- Johnson, 1999
9.3 -- Horry, 2005
7.9 -- Elie, 1999

Given all of those truths, I'm still sure that I have no idea what you're trying to argue here.


(cue some personal attack and then a wholly unrelated diatribe)

[whottt]

1# Sorry but i would need to go broke, loose my legs, get castrated and move to central Africa to feel inferior to you.

I love it...please, now call me arrogant and racist to top it off.


And if you think about America in general... many countries in Europe have a much better living enviroment and standard than USA. I live in one at the moment per say.


Horseshit(the real American kind, you know from John Wayne's horse)...I saw Borat...don't even go there bitch.

[whottt]

AJ>Horry


Got it...


How many times has Horry been cut again?

[whottt]

addendum:


AJ could shoot


Lies, damn lies, and stats...

[FromWayDowntown]

AJ>HorryGot it...

Not my argument, but a decent attempt on your part to change the topic in mid-stream.

You said that what differentiates Avery Johnson from Mario Elie, Robert Horry, and Stephen Jackson was the fact that the latter 3 "could all hit shots." That's your argument, not mine. I countered your argument by showing that, statistically speaking, your argument had some holes.

Since you're such a big proponent of statistics, I figured that would appeal to your supposed superior analytical abilities -- obviously, I've discovered that you believe in statistics except when statistics don't support your argument, in which case your chosen strategy is just to rip anyone who disagrees with you by mischaracterizing their arguments. Good to know.

[FromWayDowntown]

Lies, damn lies, and stats...

Unless, of course, those stats support your argument. See, e.g., whottt arguing that Robert Horry's playoff stats make him a Hall of Famer.

[whottt]

Not my argument, but a decent attempt on your part to change the topic in mid-stream.

You said that what differentiates Avery Johnson from Mario Elie, Robert Horry, and Stephen Jackson was the fact that the latter 3 "could all hit shots." That's your argument, not mine. I countered your argument by showing that, statistically speaking, your argument had some holes.

Since you're such a big proponent of statistics, I figured that would appeal to your supposed superior analytical abilities -- obviously, I've discovered that you believe in statistics except when statistics don't support your argument, in which case your chosen strategy is just to rip anyone who disagrees with you by mischaracterizing their arguments. Good to know.


Statistically speaking...Horry sucks, and always has except for like one year of his career.

[barbacoataco]

Avery played well in the 1999 season and the 1999 playoff run. He made the most of the limited talent he had. He handled the ball well and didn't turn it over much. If players forgot about him, he could drive to the backet a little. You couldn't accuse him of being lazy.
On the other hand---His jump shot always sucked. In the mid 90's he was one of the reasons the Spurs couldn't get over the hump and into the Finals. He never made the All-Star team. Overall I think he deserves to hang in the rafters based on his total career as a Spur.

[whottt]

Unless, of course, those stats support your argument. See, e.g., whottt arguing that Robert Horry's playoff stats make him a Hall of Famer.


False...Horry's playoff stats are almost identical to his regular season stats...I argued his playoff records, and memorable shots/moments, make him a HOFer.

Incidentally...he is.

[FromWayDowntown]

False...Horry's playoff stats are almost identical to his regular season stats...I argued his playoff records, and memorable shots/moments, make him a HOFer.

Incidentally...he is.

Playoff records aren't stats?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1818514&postcount=61

[FromWayDowntown]

In any event, we're off track again -- whottt's threads have a remarkable habit of doing that.

I'm still not sure I have any idea what whottt's argument in this thread actually is. It must have something to do with AJ's numbers not being indicative of just what a turncoat traitor, lecherous suck-ass he really is/was, while pretending that his numbers in 1999 aren't better than the collection of Spurs faves that whottt prefers to pimp.

[whottt]

BTW Kam....

I do believe that Shagia will give you a hummer out of embarrasment of me enjoying my constitutional rights...it's shit like that that makes Usama think a couple of bombs is the solution to everything...


In any case...next time you're America...I think you're in with ole Shag...you're welcome.

[whottt]

In any event, we're off track again -- whottt's threads have a remarkable habit of doing that.

I'm still not sure I have any idea what whottt's argument in this thread actually is. It must have something to do with AJ's numbers not being indicative of just what a turncoat traitor, lecherous suck-ass he really is/was, while pretending that his numbers in 1999 aren't better than the collection of Spurs faves that whottt prefers to pimp.


My point is that people are saying that 6 years into AJ's career he suddenly became this great and inspirational leader, that changed the character of this team, and lead this team to a championship...and they're wrong.


The Spurs added a couple of players that offseason but only one started...he was the difference, on the court, and in the lockerroom. AJ was the same AJ he had always been...he didn't miraculously change.


AJ has a good shooting PCT....because he never shot.

Rodman once lead the NBA in FG%...doesn't mean he was a good offensive player...although he probably shot threes better than AJ.


And any attempt on your part to attempt some stat analysis to calculate Horry's worth as a player leaves me wondering just how long you've been watching basketball...inspite of the fact that I know you've been watching long enough to know better than to go there.

[FromWayDowntown]

AJ has a good shooting PCT....because he never shot.

But he shot it more than the 3 guys that you said made a bigger difference because they could hit shots.

I'm sorry if I'm the only one here seeing a contradiction in your argument, but there certainly seems to be one.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1988127&postcount=12

[FromWayDowntown]

And any attempt on your part to attempt some stat analysis to calculate Horry's worth as a player leaves me wondering just how long you've been watching basketball...inspite of the fact that I know you've been watching long enough to know better than to go there.

The Horry thing is ultimately a question for another thread. I understand your argument for enshrining him in the Hall of Fame, but I fundamentally disagree with it, whether based on stats, records, or whatever intangible quality you want to devise. Robert Horry is a lot of things, but one thing he is not is a Hall of Famer.

Again, though, that discussion should be somewhere else.

[Mister Sinister]

And I'd say you have no idea who founded this country...I promise you, it wasn't a bunch of guys sucking dicks...
I'm pretty sure I paid attention in all my US history classes. I don't see what my bisexuality has to do with you being a no-class, self-righteous, self-important douchebag, though.

[Mister Sinister]

BTW Kam....

I do believe that Shagia will give you a hummer out of embarrasment of me enjoying my constitutional rights...it's shit like that that makes Usama think a couple of bombs is the solution to everything...


In any case...next time you're America...I think you're in with ole Shag...you're welcome.
I have constiutional rights too, schatzie. Just because I'm bisexual, doesn't mean I'm not a person.

[whottt]

But he shot it more than the 3 guys that you said made a bigger difference because they could hit shots.

No...he did not shoot more than they did. He shot less. Lies, damn lies, and stats...




I'm sorry if I'm the only one here seeing a contradiction in your argument, but there certainly seems to be one.

There's no contradiction in my argument....you just think all FGA are equal....they aren't....

[whottt]

I'm pretty sure I paid attention in all my US history classes.

And I'm pretty sure you didn't...I'm pretty sure you were in the boysroom when constituonal rights were being discussed...





I don't see what my bisexuality has to do with you being a no-class, self-righteous, self-important douchebag, though.

Because no class self righteous, self important douchebags like myself are the ones who gave you a country where you could suck dicks to your selfserving little cocksucking hearts content, while you get embarrassed, like a little bitch, over my excercising of my right to free speech...



IOW, getting a Euro dick down your throat is more important than costitutional rights...you aren't my countryman. You're an animal completely defined by a sexual urge and there's not much else to you. Primitive. Completely primitive...



You're merely an unfortunate side effect of the very right you would deny me...dick breath. I can live with it...and happily, you can't. Can I get a fuck Europe from you my American cocksucking pice of worthless politically correct shit brother?

[whottt]

I have constiutional rights too, schatzie.

Yeah...too bad you would deny others those same rights...that's what makes you worthless.



Just because I'm bisexual, doesn't mean I'm not a person.

Hey..I hope you get a nice bigone down your throat by shitting on your own country...aint America great?

[smeagol]

so then youre with smeagol

Huh?

What do I have to do with this thread?

[Mister Sinister]

And I'm pretty sure you didn't...I'm pretty sure you were in the boysroom when constituonal rights were being discussed...
I never realized I was bi until I was damn near out of high school, so that point is even more worthless than it was to begin with.





Because no class self righteous, self important douchebags like myself are the ones who gave you a country where you could suck dicks to your selfserving little cocksucking hearts content, while you get embarrassed, like a little bitch, over my excercising of my right to free speech...
I like how you totally ignore the fact that A) I'm excercising my own right to free speech in calling you a no-class, self-righteous, self-important douchebag, which, you are, to the highest degree, and B) The prefix "bi" means "two." Meaning I am attracted to *both* men *and* women. I like the pussy, and I like the cock. Hell, if anything, I lean more towards liking women then men.



IOW, getting a Euro dick down your throat is more important than costitutional rights...you aren't my countryman. You're an animal completely defined by a sexual urge and there's not much else to you. Primitive. Completely primitive...
Ok...I live in the same country as you, thereby fulfilling the very definition of a countryman, but because my sexual orientation is different from yours, this makes me "an animal completely defined by a sexual urge." Also, I don't remember expressing any desire to get a dick down my throat in this thread, Euro or otherwise. I am able to use a computer, type out this sentence and all the others that came before it, and I'm the primitive one.



You're merely an unfortunate side effect of the very right you would deny me...dick breath. I can live with it...and happily, you can't. Can I get a fuck Europe from you my American cocksucking pice of worthless politically correct shit brother?
No, you can't, because Europe hasn't done anything to warrant me saying "Fuck Europe" recently.

[Mister Sinister]

Yeah...too bad you would deny others those same rights...that's what makes you worthless.




Hey..I hope you get a nice bigone down your throat by shitting on your own country...aint America great?
I don't shit on my own country. I spread it around fairly, and shit on my own species. Of course, I have to go outside the realm of human beings to shit on you, but I'm willing to make an exception.

[whottt]

Previously in this thread:


asking <Insert deity> for a reason that idiots like you are allowed to communicate.


GFY Shag....and don't say you paid attention in class.


You give dicksuckers a bad name...

[TheSanityAnnex]

This thread kicks ass, bring it to the troll forum.

[Mister Sinister]

Previously in this thread:




GFY Shag....and don't say you paid attention in class.
I would have put "God" but then I'd be guilty of assuming that everyone here believed in the Christian God. Kind of like how you're guilty of assuming you know what the fuck you're talking about. And, you telling me I give dicksuckers a bad name says a WHOLE hell of a lot about you, now doesn't it?

[Samr]

And when he left we became soft choking bitches again...

You mean Mario became a soft choking bitch when he signed his new, bigger contract. The dude played himself OUT OF jersey retirement with that move.

[whottt]

Incidentally..you must have missed that enlightened Euro's Central African inferiority Smack...I guess racism is ok..as long as it's Euro, right?

[ShoogarBear]

I posted it because it is now my great hope that whottt uses the word "pettifogger" in the near future.He probably already has but you didn't recognize it.

[whottt]

You mean Mario became a soft choking bitch when he signed his new, bigger contract. The dude played himself OUT OF jersey retirement with that move.

I think you are confusing Mario with Jaren Jackson...


Elie got run out of here because he was too firey...pretty much the same reasons AJ did...only Mario actually taught us how to win a title before it happened.

[ShoogarBear]

This thread kicks ass, bring it to the troll forum.:lmao

I haven't finished it yet, but I suspect it'll be there soon enough.

[Mister Sinister]

:lmao

I haven't finished it yet, but I suspect it'll be there soon enough.
I almost want to go through and screencap each page for posterity. God, I've been on 4chan too much lately.

[FromWayDowntown]

No...he did not shoot more than they did. He shot less. Lies, damn lies, and stats...

So, even though Avery Johnson took more shots per game than any of the guys you specifically mentioned, he did not shoot more than the guys you specifically mentioned shot?


There's no contradiction in my argument....you just think all FGA are equal....they aren't....

I understand that point, but I don't see any reason for its application in your argument -- particularly since you've not given me any reason to understand how it might apply.

[whottt]

This thread kicks ass, bring it to the troll forum.



I don't waste my talents on mouse's popularity contests any longer...

[TheSanityAnnex]

I don't waste my talents on mouse's popularity contests any longer...The award is a joke, this thread is for real.

[Mister Sinister]

Is this thread legendary or epic?

[E20]

This thread fails in compariosnto the previous Whottt/Avery/Drob/Coyote implosions. :td

There was an instance where Whottt had talked to every spurstalk poster and offended them all in one thread, including himself.

[whottt]

So, even though Avery Johnson took more shots per game than any of the guys you specifically mentioned, he did not shoot more than the guys you specifically mentioned shot?


Exactly...

As I said...Dennis Rodman once lead the NBA in FG%, do you think that means he was shooting more than, oh say, Steve Kerr in his final season with the Spurs?

And if you do...I am again going to point out that all FGA are not equal.




I understand that point,

Evidentally you don't...see your first quote in this post.




but I don't see any reason for its application in your argument -- particularly since you've not given me any reason to understand how it might apply.

I know...and hopfully we'll never be down by 3 as time is expiring with you as the coach...

[whottt]

:lmao

I haven't finished it yet, but I suspect it'll be there soon enough.


At's right Bear...just because you won't come to that forum doesn't mean it won't come to you.


Ditto the politico!

[FromWayDowntown]

Exactly...

As I said...Dennis Rodman once lead the NBA in FG%, do you think that means he was shooting more than, oh say, Steve Kerr in his final season with the Spurs?

My point isn't that a higher FG% = more shots. My point is that taking more shots than another player means shooting more than another player. I don't see that as a particularly complicated concept.


I know...and hopfully we'll never be down by 3 as time is expiring with you as the coach...

So your point has ONLY to do with making shots in that situation? That's an entirely different point than arguing about who shoots the most among a group of players -- that's judging the quality of players in light of their performance in a rarely-occurring situation in which only one of the 5 players on the floor get that chance. By your logic, wouldn't Robert Horry be "shooting more" than Tim Duncan?

[whottt]

My point isn't that a higher FG% = more shots. My point is that taking more shots than another player means shooting more than another player. I don't see that as a particularly complicated concept.

It's not a particularly complicated concept...it's just more complicated than you think it is...




So your point has ONLY to do with making shots in that situation?

My point is that not all FGA are equal............


The world's not black and white...


Good lord...I just had to say that to a criminal defense lawyer....




That's an entirely different point than arguing about who shoots the most among a group of players

No...it's about not all FGA being equal.


-- that's judging the quality of players in light of their performance in a rarely-occurring situation in which only one of the 5 players on the floor get that chance. By your logic, wouldn't Robert Horry be "shooting more" than Tim Duncan?


Let's try to avoid confusing franchise players with role players...surely you get the difference?


Trust me...the law may say they are equal, but I assure you, they aren't.

[timvp]

I would step in but with whottt in full implosion mode, he'll handle owning himself.

I'll come back to finish him off later.

[Ignignokt]

I would step in but with whottt in full implosion mode, he'll handle owning himself.

I'll come back to finish him off later.


I bet you would.

[Ignignokt]

if Avery Johnson gets his jersey retired, then the bulls need to retire ron harper's.

[Ignignokt]

This country kicks so much ass, a bunch of other inferior countries had to band together to outdo our dollar.


Euro's will eventually become a satellite continent for allah.

[Ignignokt]

bobbyjoe Dynasty in da house!!!!

[Ignignokt]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 18 (13 members and 5 guests) ;
Ignignokt, FromWayDowntown, dastrey, ambchang, TwoHandJam, Samr, cbinge, MI21, bdictjames, Dex, foodie2, weebo, bobbyjoe

[FromWayDowntown]

I would step in but with whottt in full implosion mode, he'll handle owning himself.

I'll come back to finish him off later.

To the extent that I might have been holding the fort to this point, I'll hand it off to the night shift.

I've had my argument changed and my profession changed in a flurry of obtuse arguments shrouded more illogical statements than even the usual whotttlogic.

[Ignignokt]

To the extent that I might have been holding the fort to this point, I'll hand it off to the night shift.

I've had my argument changed and my profession changed in a flurry of obtuse arguments shrouded more illogical statements than even the usual whotttlogic.

puss.

[FromWayDowntown]

puss.

Tired. And have some early morning work matters to attend to before turning in.

But if you makes you feel better to call me names, knock yourself out big fella.

[whottt]

I be back later to make sure that b1tch Mario isn't crawling out from under that bus. Gnite all, may AJ smile on you.

[whottt]

Couldn't sleep, figured giving Mario a few more kicks might help me relax a little bit. *kick*

[mavs>spurs2]

Things to be learned from this thread:

1. Whottt is a closet homo
2. AJ deserves to have his number retired
3. Timvp>whottt

[Cant_Be_Mated]

whottt sucks a mean penis for weed i saiddddddd

[timvp]

Seriously though, nationality smack and homosexual smack is even a low point for whottt. I know that whottt has called me racist before ... as well as run nationalistic smack and religion smack on me even though we share the same nationality and same religion ... so it isn't that surprising.

But whottt should be careful about his homosexual smack. whottt is the same guy who in the other thread admitted to being a big fan of Dancing With The Stars. He also is an admitted fan of shirtless men groping each other while participating in a fake sport. Add those two together and whottt should be the last person running homosexual smack.

What is most surprising about whottt is his sudden hatred of David Robinson. He's called him "soft" and a "choker" more in the last couple days than most Rocket fans in their lifetime. I don't mind whottt going off on timvp ... but going off on David Robinson is both surprising and sad. whottt used to be a fan.

:td

[Mister Sinister]

Seriously though, nationality smack and homosexual smack is even a low point for whottt. I know that whottt has called me racist before ... as well as run nationalistic smack and religion smack on me even though we share the same nationality and same religion ... so it isn't that surprising.

But whottt should be careful about his homosexual smack. whottt is the same guy who in the other thread admitted to being a big fan of Dancing With The Stars. He also is an admitted fan of shirtless men groping each other while participating in a fake sport. Add those two together and whottt should be the last person running homosexual smack.

What is most surprising about whottt is his sudden hatred of David Robinson. He's called him "soft" and a "choker" more in the last couple days than most Rocket fans in their lifetime. I don't mind whottt going off on timvp ... but going off on David Robinson is both surprising and sad. whottt used to be a fan.

:td
Whoa, whoa, whoa. This idiot likes DWTS, and he's giving *me* homo smack? Sweet fracking Christ, I'm not *nearly* that gay, even at my gayest.

[whottt]

*kick*

[Mark in Austin]

I'd like to add a more moderate voice to this debate:

I have no problem giving Avery credit for wanting to win, maximizing his talents, and being a vocal leader. I just don't think that is enough to merit jersey retirement. If the Spurs hadn't signed Mario, I think most would agree that it would have been pretty unlikely that they win the '99 title. If Avery hadn't been on that title team, and hadn't hit that one jumper to clinch, would we still be having this debate? I doubt it. Take any other jersey up there and take away one signature moment; they all would still have a jersey hanging in the rafters. Not so with Avery. (Moore and Elliott notwithstanding; recovering from desert fever and a kidney transplant to play for the Spurs again are dramatic enough to transcend the traditional tests for jersey retirement; and even then, lots of fans didn't agree with the decisions.)

As I recall, Mario wasn't run out of town because he was too vocal. He was released because he lost his effectiveness defensively as the rules changed and he couldn't compensate for a lack of quickness with physical play as much as he used to. You don't bring a guy who's too vocal for the team and wears out his welcome back to be an assistant coach - you bring leaders back.

One other thing I'd like to mention - stuff beside on the court performance does matter. At least to San Antonio. The two most recent retirees - David and Sean - are as beloved as they are because they have embraced this community in a way that few other athletes have. They are icons now. As others have said, Sugarland, not San Antonio was home to Avery. For a lot of us that counts. But here's what counts even more:

As much as I respect Avery for what he did as a player, I think he has shown himself to be petty and ungracious at times since he left. The argument the Avery defenders use - that he was already gone, with a different team, not the Spurs leader anymore - neglects one simple truth: Put Pop, David, or Sean in the same positions as Avery - both as a former player and then as an opposing coach - and they would handle themselves with more class and discretion. When have you ever heard Pop make comments like Avery made or lobby for calls shamelessly like Avery did in the press in the '06 series? Never. That is a big part of who the Spurs are and what they Stand For; and for me it is the reason that ultimately makes my decision a lot easier: I don't think Avery's jersey belongs in the rafters.

[whottt]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. This idiot likes DWTS, and he's giving *me* homo smack? Sweet fracking Christ, I'm not *nearly* that gay, even at my gayest.



Idiot...I wasn't insulting you for being gay. I was insulting you for being a queen.

[Mister Sinister]

Idiot...I wasn't insulting you for being gay. I was insulting you for being a queen.
That's the.....those two mean the.....I'm bisexu....God, FUCKING DAMN, you're an idiot!

[whottt]

#1. I'm sorry...but you stick another man's dick in your mouth, you aren't bi anything...that's like saying you are half a murderer or something. There's no halfway with that.

#2. As an American...I completely respect the rights of people to do what they want with whoever they want, (unlike yourself, who doesn't respect the rights of others to free speech)...two consenting adults, their business not mine.

Now that said...in sports, it is an absolute necessity to be able to insult the masculinity of another man based on their sports opinions...there's just no way to do it without homo smack. Period. It's got to stay...unless someone can come up with a better way of doing it.


The fact of the matter is...there are some fags that could kick every guys ass in this thread, they probably hunt and watch football and all that other shit...


But there are also some that act like wimmins...and you my friend, are one of those. Any pussed out politically correct bitch who worries about what people think on a message board definitely qualifies for that label. You cocksucker.


Edit: And so does 90% of the political forum.

[Kori Ellis]

Whott (one "t" initially missing) is pushing this thread closer and closer to the Troll forum.

[timvp]

Now that said...in sports, it is an absolute necessity to be able to insult the masculinity of another man based on their sports opinions...there's just no way to do it without homo smack. Period. It's got to stay...unless someone can come up with a better way of doing it. So you are giving the forum the go ahead to make fun of you for liking Dancing With The Stars and shirtless males groping each other?


The fact of the matter is...there are some fags that could kick every guys ass in this thread, they probably hunt and watch football and all that other shit...This belongs in a wrestling forum.


But there are also some that act like wimminsWho is the poster that is remembering quotes from more than a half decade ago? You are still hurt about comments AJ made in freakin' 2001. You act like a bad girlfriend when it comes to AJ. Move on from the past. You can't hold it against your BF that he made a comment about another girl sometime back in 2000. AJ has backed off those statements. It's almost 2008. Rehashing and nagging about some comment made in the heat of competition years ago is a feminine trait if I've ever seen one on a message board.

[saporvida]

#1. I'm sorry...but you stick another man's dick in your mouth, you aren't bi anything...that's like saying you are half a murderer or something. There's no halfway with that.

hahaha. i have been saying this forever yet i still get people trying to argue that being bi isn't being gay. it's the same in my book. i'm just glad i ain't alone in my thinking.

i have nothing against gays either and i actually have a few gay friends but when their bisexual flamboyantly gay friends claim they are anything but(t) gay i have to just nod my head cause it's a ridiculous argument on their part.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Boy, I bet the next GTG is just going to be so much fun.

[saporvida]

Boy, I bet the next GTG is just going to be so much fun.

:lol

[mavs>spurs2]

Boy, I bet the next GTG is just going to be so much fun.

I always wondered if it was awkward when whottt and timvp meet face to face at GTG's

[timvp]

I always wondered if it was awkward when whottt and timvp meet face to face at GTG'sAt GTGs, whottt just constantly runs homo smack at everyone in attendance.

[Mister Sinister]

-Sigh- All I can do at this point is shake my head. That's the only response I can come up with, because I'm in that much disbelief. I have a girlfriend, that I love more than life itself. But I'm still a homo, because I'm not entirely attracted to women?

[whottt]

So you are giving the forum the go ahead to make fun of you for liking Dancing With The Stars

Could care less...

#1. I don't recall saying I like it...but I'll watch it.
#2. Wrestling just isn't the same for me after the Benoit thing.





Who is the poster that is remembering quotes from more than a half decade ago? You are still hurt about comments AJ made in freakin' 2001.

Whose hurt? This over-rated scrub is getting his jersey retired...against the will of what seems to be the majority of Spurs fans(online)...

People are acting like he's this Saint and the guy who forever changed the chemistry of this team when what he was...was the same scrub that was here for the rest of the 90's when the Spurs couldn't win and he was the second single biggest reason why out of the regular core.


Retiring AJ's jersey is a mere half step from retiring Vinny Del Negros. And that half step is only because AJ could actually throw it into Drob fairly accurately.







You act like a bad girlfriend when it comes to AJ. Move on from the past.

I don't want to move on from the past...because people are saying this tool lead us to a championship...and they aint right. They wrong.





AJ has backed off those statements.


Backed off of them after Parker and Manu made him look like an idiot...what else could he do? They equaled his crowing glory as first and second year players...

They have 3 times times hte number of rings he has and are All Stars...

Of course he backed off those comments...I have no doubt he regrets ever making them in the first place.





It's almost 2008. Rehashing and nagging about some comment made in the heat of competition years ago is a feminine trait if I've ever seen one on a message board.


The only femeine trait in evidence in this thread is throwing Mario Elie under the buss...

That AJ was a leader is something mamas told their little boys back in the 90's...because he talked funny.


That Mario freaking Elie signed up and this team stopped playing like girls...is an obvious fact...


And more importantly, is the greatest karmic wrong ever done to a Spurs player to say Mario Elie wasn't the major catalyst for that change.


AJ was here for a long time before that happened...and he was afterwards too. Same shit different year...the one year the Spurs were healthy and Mario was here, was the one year they became a truly different team.


I am sorry if you think my saying those Spurs teams sucked is somehow throwing David Robinson under the bus...I'm not throwing David Robinson under the bus, those Spurs did suck...except for Drob.

[picnroll]

Here (http://www.insidehoops.com/nba-retired-numbers.shtml) is a list of retired NBA jerseys. By accom0plishment only a fool would argue that Avery Johnson is sunk deep in the bottom 5% by accomplishment. He cheapens the concept of retiring a jersey number particularly for a franchise as accomplishe as the Spurs.

[Kori Ellis]

I always wondered if it was awkward when whottt and timvp meet face to face at GTG's
:lol

It's a message board. They have been arguing for like six years now online. Apparently they both like to argue. I think they are both warped regarding AJ.

But I doubt either one of them have any ill feelings that spill over into real life.

[barbacoataco]

After all this discussion I changed my mind. The more I think about it, Avery Johnson really isn't the quality of a player to have his # retired. The fact that he never made an All-Star team says a lot. In the case of Bowen, he has been named to several 1st team All-defense teams, and nearly won the DOP (should have.) It is true that the Spurs were constantly trying to get rid of Avery his whole career, or make him a backup. That hardly is the mark of a player who's jersey is retired.

[timvp]

Could care less...

#1. I don't recall saying I like it...but I'll watch it.
#2. Wrestling just isn't the same for me after the Benoit thing. So you admit to watching DWTS and are a recovering wrestling fan. That isn't the resume for someone who can run homo smack against others.

Just sayin' ...


Whose hurt? This over-rated scrub is getting his jersey retired...against the will of what seems to be the majority of Spurs fans(online)...I will take the side of Pop, Holt, Elliott and David Robinson. You can take the other side.

And with as much as you've been calling DRob "soft" and a "choker" lately, maybe you don't want to be on his side anymore.


People are acting like he's this SaintLink?


and the guy who forever changed the chemistry of this teamYeah, only people like Pop and Robinson have stated that. Surely we should trust whottt over those two "chokers" who rely on either Elie, SJax or Horry to bail them out.



I don't want to move on from the past...because people are saying this tool lead us to a championship...and they aint right. They wrong. You can hate AJ as much as you want but you won't be able to take down his jersey from the rafters and you won't be able to take away his championship ring.

Pop, David Robinson, Sean Elliott among others are thankful for what he meant to the Spurs. You can have a different opinion than I do ... but I like the company I'm in. You can have Sequ, I'll counter you with David Robinson.


Of course he backed off those comments...I have no doubt he regrets ever making them in the first place. Then let it go. Everyone has moved on. Stop obsessing over comments made more than a half decade ago that everyone involved has forgotten about.



The only femeine trait in evidence in this thread is throwing Mario Elie under the buss...I have a lot of respect for Elie. He's one of my favorite players ever. His play in the 1999 season was epic ... especially considering the Rockets' doctors said his career was over after he broke his wrist while with the Rockets. Elie's 1999 season was legendary and something I'll never forget.

But to try to catapult him over Robinson, Duncan, AJ, Elliott, Pop and everyone else who had been there before him is a disgrace. Elie wasn't a panacea for all that ailed the Spurs. He was a very good piece who brought in some needed fire. Pop was still growing as a coach so he needed those vocal leaders on the team. AJ needed a right hand man to help lead the rest of the team. It was a perfect fit. However, to say that he "truly lead" that team to a championship is BS. Robinson, Elliott, AJ and Pop had been pounding on that rock for years before Elie ever got there. Duncan was already a superstar in his second season.

Elie was a role player. A damn good and needed role player but a role player nonetheless. You can check my posts from before the 1999 season in which I was ecstatic about adding Elie because I thought he was the missing piece. And really, that was the case. Going from Vinny to Elie was such a huge increase in clutchness that it put the Spurs over the top.

Adding tough guys like Elie and Jerome Kersey is what the Spurs needed to get over the hump. Props to Elie. I'll always respect him for what he helped bring to the Spurs. However, I'm not going to canonize him above the likes of David Robinson and say he was the true reason the Spurs won the championship.



That Mario freaking Elie signed up and this team stopped playing like girls...is an obvious fact...So now David Robinson played like a girl? How much more are you going to crap on him?



AJ was here for a long time before that happened...and he was afterwards too. Same shit different year...the one year the Spurs were healthy and Mario was here, was the one year they became a truly different team. Going from Vinny to any halfway decent SG would have been a big difference. Mario brought some needed aspects to the team. I've never denied that. But I'm also not prepared to pull 50 and 32 down from the rafters to lift up 17.

[E20]

LMAO The argument isn't even close to what it orginally was about it. Forget PTI, why don't they just put on Whotttimvp Happy Hour.

[ShoogarBear]

obtuse :tu

See, now it's a fad.

[Kamnik]

Sorry for my racist and moronic rants and insults in this thread.

I didnt get laid in 17 years and i need to vent somehow!



Apology accepted.

People go easy on him. :toast

[timvp]

Apology accepted.

People go easy on him. :toast:lol

I'll admit I scrolled up to look for where he said that. :smokin

[Kamnik]

:lol

I'll admit I scrolled up to look for where he said that. :smokin

:lol

[Kamnik]

Btw.... i once read some things on this forum that TD watches wrestling. But i am not sure if it was a prank or serious news.

I found that really disturbing at the time i read it. :S

[timvp]

Btw.... i once read some things on this forum that TD watches wrestling. But i am not sure if it was a prank or serious news.

I found that really disturbing at the time i read it. :SAs long as he doesn't also watch Dancing With The Stars. One mistake is forgivable.

[polandprzem]

The funny thing is you run of the mill Euros don't have a clue why you are offensive to my American sensibilities...while I know exactly why I am offensive to you...and derive great pleasure from it.

Holda holda holda man


Damn I wanted to read most of this thread but I stopped on that one :devil

[thispego]

IOW, getting a Euro dick down your throat is more important than costitutional rights...you aren't my countryman. You're an animal completely defined by a sexual urge and there's not much else to you. Primitive. Completely primitive...


Ok...I live in the same country as you, thereby fulfilling the very definition of a countryman, but because my sexual orientation is different from yours, this makes me "an animal completely defined by a sexual urge." Also, I don't remember expressing any desire to get a dick down my throat in this thread, Euro or otherwise. I am able to use a computer, type out this sentence and all the others that came before it, and I'm the primitive one.
whottt has a good point here shagia. straight people dont go around referring to themselves has heterosexual. you're primitive, all you want is gratification. pedophiles can type and use a computer also.

[Mister Sinister]

whottt has a good point here shagia. straight people dont go around referring to themselves has heterosexual. you're primitive, all you want is gratification. pedophiles can type and use a computer also.
<Headdesk>

[thispego]

straight people > gay people > bi people (cause they can't make up their mind and will screw anything) at least gay people have limits

[Mister Sinister]

straight people > gay people > bi people (cause they can't make up their mind and will screw anything) at least gay people have limits
Your ignorance is absolutely *astounding.*

[101A]

My firm handled a case not too long ago in which a judge on the Fifth Circuit issued an order accusing opposing counsel of engaging in pettifoggery.

I had to look it up.

Was it Garza?

[mookie2001]

Huh?

What do I have to do with this thread?you, mavs fans, and nonamericans against the 2nd ammendment always agree with timvp

[timvp]

you, mavs fans, and nonamericans against the 2nd ammendment always agree with timvpHere comes Victoria . . .

[thispego]

Your ignorance is absolutely *astounding.*
your debauchery is *hysterical.*

[thispego]

Here comes Victoria . . .
watch out now

[mookie2001]

its true though timvp
why would you get support from those segments of posters?
without argentines, mavs fans and kori- whottt could start his own spurstalk and tax you

[smeagol]

you, mavs fans, and nonamericans against the 2nd ammendment always agree with timvp

:lmao

You moron. Saying I agree with timvp when I'm arguing against him.

:lmao

[mookie2001]

ok you chose to align yourself with TIMVP against whottt

[smeagol]

its true though timvp
why would you get support from those segments of posters?
without argentines, mavs fans and kori- whottt could start his own spurstalk and tax you

Isn't there a 24 episode you should be bitching about because of the way they portray muslims?

Go and ask it be banned, you 2nd amendment defender, you.

[mookie2001]

weak

[smeagol]

ok you chose to align yourself with TIMVP against whottt

Are you retarded?

On the Avery discussion, I'm aligning myself with whottt against timvp.

Learn how to read, or ask your buddies for help.

[timvp]

its true though timvp
why would you get support from those segments of posters?
without argentines, mavs fans and kori- whottt could start his own spurstalk and tax youHaven't you worked off your debt to whottt after he helped you move? How much longer do you need to be his lapdog?

Brah, I think you got a raw deal in that transaction. No pun intended.

[mookie2001]

whottt didnt do shit besides be prowar

[timvp]

whottt didnt do shit besides be prowar

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1899400&postcount=54

I'm not sure what the wink was about. Although how you've acted since then, I have a pretty good idea.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[smeagol]

weak

But true

[mookie2001]

ive gotta to get whottt and thispego to stop incriminating me in their private messages

[mookie2001]

whats true is youre against the second ammendment smeagol

and when manu was going 0-6, 1-9 in the playoffs you were having argentina fits when people were scoffing the shit out of him

[timvp]

ive gotta to get whottt and thispego to stop incriminating me in their private messages


It's time to return the favor ;)

[mookie2001]

timvp owns whottt!
/mavsfan

[timvp]

whottt winks at me
/mookie

[smeagol]

whats true is youre against the second ammendment smeagol


I'm against how easy it is in the states to get a gun. I also find it very interesting the love some people in America feel for their guns.



and when manu was going 0-6, 1-9 in the playoffs you were having argentina fits when people were scoffing the shit out of him

And you had to shove your "Manu sucks, lets trade him" moronic comments up your fat ass.

Hey, idiot, you forgot to bring up my expert opinion on 9/11 :lmao

[mookie2001]

hey you did read the 9/11 commission report

[mookie2001]

right?

[thispego]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1899400&postcount=54

I'm not sure what the wink was about. Although how you've acted since then, I have a pretty good idea.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
:elephant :dramaquee

[thispego]

sorry smeags. i gotta back up the mook on this one.

[timvp]

sorry smeags. i gotta back up the mook on this one. ;)

[thispego]

i only use these when i wink:

;D

[smeagol]

sorry smeags. i gotta back up the mook on this one.
Don't be sorry.

Nobody doubted one second who you back in all discussions on ST.

[smeagol]

hey you did read the 9/11 commission report

No.

Do I need to read it to conclude the government is covering up the events of 9/11?

Or after reading it the conclusion is the government is in cohoots with the terrorists?

Is OBL hiding in Camp David?

Please enlighten me . . .

[thispego]

Don't be sorry.

Nobody doubted one second who you back in all discussions on ST.
hahhaha durdurdur, you think i mighta been joking??? smeagma you are one of a kind :lmao

[Cant_Be_Mated]

sorry smeags. i gotta back up the mook on this one.


i like to back up the mook every night i saiddddddd

smega

victoria

horns

[Cant_Be_Mated]

i left the rockets when the spurs started winning championships i saiddddd

[thispego]

more like every other night

[thispego]

i left the rockets when the spurs started winning championships i saiddddd
with spurs fans like this i wish i was a rockets fan

[whottt]

...


I think it's pretty funny that timvp is letting the homosmack fly fast and loose, when the only homo in this thread...is on his side. ;)

[whottt]

My bad...I forgot winks have a special meaning to timvp, from the AJ years...when he was ready for that...

[Mister Sinister]

your debauchery is *hysterical.*
What fucking debauchery? Bisexuality isn't debauchery, you dumb fuck! If I went out every night trying to fuck anything that said yes, male or female, *that* would be debauchery! Bisexuality means "attraction to both sexes." Just attraction. Not explicitly sexual. Bisexual means that I would be comfortable having a boyfriend, or a girlfriend.

[ShoogarBear]

How the hell is this thread still in the Spurs Forum? :lol

[smeagol]

hahhaha durdurdur, you think i mighta been joking??? smeagma you are one of a kind :lmao

Dude, I know you were dead serious.

You love your guns too.

Not sure if you are against free speech as the mookster is, though . . .

[Phenomanul]

I'd like to add a more moderate voice to this debate:

I have no problem giving Avery credit for wanting to win, maximizing his talents, and being a vocal leader. I just don't think that is enough to merit jersey retirement. If the Spurs hadn't signed Mario, I think most would agree that it would have been pretty unlikely that they win the '99 title. If Avery hadn't been on that title team, and hadn't hit that one jumper to clinch, would we still be having this debate? I doubt it. Take any other jersey up there and take away one signature moment; they all would still have a jersey hanging in the rafters. Not so with Avery. (Moore and Elliott notwithstanding; recovering from desert fever and a kidney transplant to play for the Spurs again are dramatic enough to transcend the traditional tests for jersey retirement; and even then, lots of fans didn't agree with the decisions.)

As I recall, Mario wasn't run out of town because he was too vocal. He was released because he lost his effectiveness defensively as the rules changed and he couldn't compensate for a lack of quickness with physical play as much as he used to. You don't bring a guy who's too vocal for the team and wears out his welcome back to be an assistant coach - you bring leaders back.

One other thing I'd like to mention - stuff beside on the court performance does matter. At least to San Antonio. The two most recent retirees - David and Sean - are as beloved as they are because they have embraced this community in a way that few other athletes have. They are icons now. As others have said, Sugarland, not San Antonio was home to Avery. For a lot of us that counts. But here's what counts even more:

As much as I respect Avery for what he did as a player, I think he has shown himself to be petty and ungracious at times since he left. The argument the Avery defenders use - that he was already gone, with a different team, not the Spurs leader anymore - neglects one simple truth: Put Pop, David, or Sean in the same positions as Avery - both as a former player and then as an opposing coach - and they would handle themselves with more class and discretion. When have you ever heard Pop make comments like Avery made or lobby for calls shamelessly like Avery did in the press in the '06 series? Never. That is a big part of who the Spurs are and what they Stand For; and for me it is the reason that ultimately makes my decision a lot easier: I don't think Avery's jersey belongs in the rafters.


My sentiments exactly....

[lil'mo]

What fucking debauchery? Bisexuality isn't debauchery, you dumb fuck! If I went out every night trying to fuck anything that said yes, male or female, *that* would be debauchery! Bisexuality means "attraction to both sexes." Just attraction. Not explicitly sexual. Bisexual means that I would be comfortable having a boyfriend, or a girlfriend.
:spless: :smchode:


do you consider this emoticon offensive? :married: i mean, why can't it be two grooms?

[Mister Sinister]

:spless: :smchode:


do you consider this emoticon offensive? :married: i mean, why can't it be two grooms?
Actually, no I don't consider it offensive. Why the hell would I?

[thispego]

What fucking debauchery? Bisexuality isn't debauchery, you dumb fuck! If I went out every night trying to fuck anything that said yes, male or female, *that* would be debauchery! Bisexuality means "attraction to both sexes." Just attraction. Not explicitly sexual. Bisexual means that I would be comfortable having a boyfriend, or a girlfriend.
besides all the folks that are married on here, the only sexual preference that everyone can be sure of on this board is yours. what does that tell you?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

besides all the folks that are married on here, the only sexual preference that everyone can be sure of on this board is yours. what does that tell you?

that people construed it from a comment he made and asked him about it and he didnt lie? really who cares what he likes to get naked with.

[thispego]

really who cares what he likes to get naked with.
haha, nobody, which is why it's strange that it's such common knowledge. and i was merely agreeing that bisexuality is primitive

[lil'mo]

Actually, no I don't consider it offensive. Why the hell would I?
they have a emoticon for a hetero union. that should make you feel half descriminated against since they dont have a homosexual union emoticon

[Mister Sinister]

they have a emoticon for a hetero union. that should make you feel half descriminated against since they dont have a homosexual union emoticon
I don't feel half discriminated against about that because, as petty as I might be, I'm not that petty.