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boutons_
10-07-2007, 04:54 PM
5 Myths About Sick Old Europe
By Steven Hill
Sunday, October 7, 2007; B03


In the global economy, today's winners can become tomorrow's losers in a twinkling, and vice versa. Not so long ago, American pundits and economic analysts were snidely touting U.S. economic superiority to the "sick old man" of Europe (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Europe?tid=informline). What a difference a few months can make. Today, with the stock market jittery over Iraq (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Iraq?tid=informline), the mortgage crisis, huge budget and trade deficits, and declining growth in productivity, investors are wringing their hands about the U.S. economy. Meanwhile, analysts point to the roaring economies of China (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/China?tid=informline) and India (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/India?tid=informline) as the only bright spots on the global horizon.

But what about Europe? You may be surprised to learn how our estranged transatlantic partner has been faring during these roller-coaster times -- and how successfully it has been knocking down the Europessimist myths about it.

1. The sclerotic European economy is incapable of leading the world.

Who're you calling sclerotic? The European Union (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/European+Union?tid=informline)'s $16 trillion economy has been quietly surging for some time and has emerged as the largest trading bloc in the world, producing nearly a third of the global economy. That's more than the U.S. economy (27 percent) or Japan (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Japan?tid=informline)'s (9 percent). Despite all the hype, China is still an economic dwarf, accounting for less than 6 percent of the world's economy. India is smaller still.

The European economy was never as bad as the Europessimists made it out to be. From 2000 to 2005, when the much-heralded U.S. economic recovery was being fueled by easy credit and a speculative housing market, the 15 core nations of the European Union had per capita economic growth rates equal to that of the United States. In late 2006, they surpassed us. Europe added jobs at a faster rate, had a much lower budget deficit than the United States and is now posting higher productivity gains and a $3 billion trade surplus.

2. Nobody wants to invest in European companies and economies because lack of competitiveness makes them a poor bet.

Wrong again. Between 2000 and 2005, foreign direct investment in the E.U. 15 was almost half the global total, and investment returns in Europe outperformed those in the United States. "Old Europe is an investment magnet because it is the most lucrative market in the world in which to operate," says Dan O'Brien of the Economist. In fact, corporate America is a huge investor in Europe; U.S. companies' affiliates in the E.U. 15 showed profits of $85 billion in 2005, far more than in any other region of the world and 26 times more than the $3.3 billion they made in China.

And forget that old canard about economic competitiveness. According to the World Economic Forum's measure of national competitiveness, European countries took the top four spots, seven of the top 10 spots and 12 of the top 20 spots in 2006-07. The United States ranked sixth. India ranked 43rd and mainland China 54th.

3. Europe is the land of double-digit unemployment.

Not anymore. Half of the E.U. 15 nations have experienced effective full employment during this decade, and unemployment rates have been the same as or lower than the rate in the United States. Unemployment for the entire European Union, including the still-emerging nations of Central and Eastern Europe (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Eastern+Europe?tid=informline), stands at a historic low of 6.7 percent. Even France (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/France?tid=informline), at 8 percent, is at its lowest rate in 25 years.

That's still higher than U.S. unemployment, which is 4.6 percent, but let's not forget that many of the jobs created here pay low wages and include no benefits. In Europe, the jobless still have access to health care, generous replacement wages, job-retraining programs, housing subsidies and other benefits. In the United States, by contrast, the unemployed can end up destitute and marginalized.

4. The European "welfare state" hamstrings businesses and hurts the economy.

Beware of stereotypes based on ideological assumptions. As Europe's economy has surged, it has maintained fairness and equality. Unlike in the United States, with its rampant inequality and lack of universal access to affordable health care and higher education, Europeans have harnessed their economic engine to create wealth that is broadly distributed.

Europeans still enjoy universal cradle-to-grave social benefits in many areas. They get quality health care, paid parental leave, affordable childcare, paid sick leave, free or nearly free higher education, generous retirement pensions and quality mass transit. They have an average of five weeks of paid vacation (compared with two for Americans) and a shorter work week. In some European countries, workers put in one full day less per week than Americans do, yet enjoy the same standard of living.

Europe is more of a "workfare state" than a welfare state. As one British political analyst said to me recently: "Europe doesn't so much have a welfare society as a comprehensive system of institutions geared toward keeping everyone healthy and working." Properly understood, Europe's economy and social system are two halves of a well-designed "social capitalism" -- an ingenious framework in which the economy finances the social system to support families and employees in an age of globalized capitalism that threatens to turn us all into internationally disposable workers. Europeans' social system contributes to their prosperity, rather than detracting from it, and even the continent's conservative political leaders agree that it is the best way.

5. Europe is likely to be held hostage to its dependence on Russia (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Russia?tid=informline) and the Middle East (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Middle+East?tid=informline) for most of its energy needs.

Crystal-ball gazing on this front is risky. Europe may rely on energy from Russia and the Middle East for some time, but it is also leading the world in reducing its energy dependence and in taking action to counteract global climate change. In March, the heads of all 27 E.U. nations agreed to make renewable energy sources 20 percent of the union's energy mix by 2020 and to cut carbon emissions by 20 percent.

( at dubya's "energy" conference, nothing was even proposed. sub-text: dubya has never done and will never do anything except promote bigger profits for oil/coal/gas companies, no matter what it costs to citizens and environment)


In pursuit of these goals, the continent's landscape is slowly being transformed by high-tech windmills, massive solar arrays, tidal power stations, hydrogen fuel cells and energy-saving "green" buildings. Europe has gone high- and low-tech: It's developing not only mass public transit and fuel-efficient vehicles but also thousands of kilometers of bicycle and pedestrian paths to be used by people of all ages. Europe's ecological "footprint," the amount of the Earth's capacity that a population consumes, is about half that of the United States.

So much for the sick old man. http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif


[email protected]

Steven Hill, director of the New America Foundation (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/New+America+Foundation?tid=informline)'s political reform program, is writing a book comparing Europe and the United States.

boutons_
10-08-2007, 02:04 PM
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-fi-healthspend2oct02,1,726994.story?coll=la-headlines-health&ctrack=3&cset=true

Europe healthier than U.S.

Older Americans have higher rates of serious diseases than aging

Europeans, a study says.
By Lisa Girion
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

October 2, 2007

Costly diseases, many of them related to obesity and smoking, are more prevalent among aging Americans than their European peers and add as much as $100 billion to $150 billion a year in treatment costs to the U.S. healthcare tab, a new study says.

( smoking is stable or going down, overweight and obesity continues to increase, as will the medical bills )

The study by researchers at Emory University's Rollins School of Public Health found higher rates of several serious diseases -- including cancer, diabetes and heart disease -- among Americans 50 and older as compared with aging Europeans.

For example, heart disease was diagnosed in nearly twice as many Americans as Europeans 50 and older. More than 16% of American seniors had diagnosed diabetes, compared with about 11% of their European peers. And arthritis and cancer were more than twice as common among Americans as Europeans.

( there is legit question: is there an US epidemic of degenerative, life-style diseases, or is there a US epidemic of gratuitous diagnoses? )

The study published on the Web today by the journal Health Affairs found that Americans were nearly twice as likely as Europeans to be obese (33.1% versus 17.1%), and they also were more likely to be current or former smokers (53% versus 43%).

"We expected to see differences between disease prevalence in the United States and Europe, but the extent of the differences is surprising," said lead author Kenneth Thorpe, a public health professor at Emory and former deputy assistant secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

Thorpe said the findings suggested that "we spend more on healthcare because we are, indeed, less healthy."

( yes, but US healthcare is much more expensive and costs are born by fewer people than in Europe, to say nothing about the absence of anxiety in Europe of trying to stay covered or a family being destroyed, bankrupted by medical expenses )

The study has implications for the continuing debate over healthcare reform and attempts to illustrate the economic consequences of lifestyle choices often viewed as intensely personal.

( for Americans, freedoms come with no civic responsibilities )

Does the Emory study mean that Americans are actually sicker than Europeans, or that their illnesses are more likely to be diagnosed and treated? Both, the authors said.

When it comes to cancer, the higher diagnosis rate appears to be due to more intensive screening in the U.S., they said. But higher rates of obesity-related diseases and conditions, such as high blood pressure, suggest Americans also are, indeed, sicker.

"I think the big difference is the doubling of obesity rates," Thorpe said.

"If you look at the doctor-diagnosed rates of diabetes and other chronic diseases related to obesity, it's just startling," he said. "It just jumped out at us when we looked at it."

It is the latest look at why the U.S. spends more on healthcare than any of its European counterparts. In 2004, the year of the data the Emory study examined, the U.S. spent $6,102 per capita on healthcare -- about twice that of the Netherlands and Germany and nearly twice that of France.

If older Americans were diagnosed and treated at the lower European rate for 10 common chronic conditions, the authors estimate, this would reduce spending by $100 billion to $150 billion a year, which is 13% to 19% of total U.S. spending on this age group.

The study concludes that the best way to trim U.S. healthcare spending
-- or at least curb its rate of increase -- is to put Americans on a diet and encourage other measures aimed at preventing the diseases.

Physicians such as Rob Blackman, a Los Angeles internist, already counsel their patients to take a cue from Europeans in the way they eat -- less fast food -- and the way they pace their lives. Six-week vacations and afternoon siestas help reduce stress that makes people vulnerable to disease, he said.

( the "afternoon siesta" is hardly common in Europe. They have a/c now, but there is still some siesta culture in Greece, Italy, Spain. )

Such conventions are commonplace in Europe but unheard of in the U.S., so the advice is often easier given than taken.

"Last year I took a 15-day vacation -- first time I took more than 10 days in 30 years," Blackman said. "I couldn't believe how much better I felt. It's like the old saying, 'You don't know how sick you are until you get better.' "

Other studies have sought to explain the spending gap between the U.S. and Europe by comparing factors such as capacity, access to technology and prices.

Thorpe said he hoped the study helped shift the debate over healthcare reform away from arguing about who pays for what to a focus on preventing diseases that affect the quality of life and run up costs.

He said he would like to see the nation embrace obesity and disease prevention the way it targeted cigarette smoking. That campaign slashed smoking rates by more than half.

The U.S. healthcare system -- driven by when and how providers get paid -- does not promote prevention or effective and efficient disease management, Thorpe said.

Instead, he said, "We wait for people to get sick. They show up. We treat them. And doctors and hospitals get paid. That's not a very good way for managing disease."

The Emory study compared 2004 data on disease rates among adults 50 and older in the U.S. and in a group of European countries: Austria, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland.

[email protected]

http://www.latimes.com/media/thumbnails/graphic/2007-10/32933998.gif

===================

So the Europeans can truly say, evidence-based vs Rummy's prejudiced slur:

The Old Sick Man of USA http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Marcus Bryant
10-08-2007, 02:08 PM
Perhaps the US can stop subsidizing the EU member states' national defenses then.

boutons_
10-08-2007, 02:13 PM
"subsidizing the EU member states' national defenses then."

If US wants to pull out, I'm sure nobody would stop them. I seriously doubt the greedy extravagantly wasteful US military and its supporting MIC would ever support RIF in Europe. Obviously, the Cold War justification for the US occupation of Europe hasn't existed for over 10 years. The Marshall Plan's objective was to create markets for US corps, not altruism.

xrayzebra
10-08-2007, 02:20 PM
"subsidizing the EU member states' national defenses then."

If US wants to pull out, I'm sure nobody would stop them. I seriously doubt the greedy extravagantly wasteful US military and it's supporting MIC would ever support RIF in Europe. The Marshall Plan's objective was to create markets for US corps, not altruism.

Want to bet. They have already bitched when we closed
out bases.

You think Europe and the UK are so great. Go over there
and live and see how great it is. Inflation is eating them
alive. How bout just a simple thing like going out and
eating. Get ready to pay through the nose.

Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. I
have done both.

Phenomanul
10-08-2007, 03:11 PM
For someone who constantly mocks everything that emanates from the Bible.

Europe's return to its former glory was 'foretold' in that same book. The formation of the European Union was only the first step.

I want to be clear that I'm not picking a fight. You obviously are entitled to believe whatever you want. I just find it somewhat 'ironic' that you would be the one to parade these articles around without realizing that they were related to your other bible-bashing arguments.

boutons_
10-08-2007, 03:22 PM
Whether something happens, or doesn't, that correlates with something in the Bible doesn't prove or even mean than the Bible foretold the future, nor that the Bible precisely, inerrantly, scientifically documents the past.

I find it "somewhat ironic" that someone so brilliantly, deeply, broadly educated would confound coincidence with accurate prediction.

Extra Stout
10-08-2007, 03:37 PM
For someone who constantly mocks everything that emanates from the Bible.

Europe's return to its former glory was 'foretold' in that same book. The formation of the European Union was only the first step.

I want to be clear that I'm not picking a fight. You obviously are entitled to believe whatever you want. I just find it somewhat 'ironic' that you would be the one to parade these articles around without realizing that they were related to your other bible-bashing arguments.
If you're talking about the recreated Roman Empire of Revelation, step back for a second and ask yourself a couple of questions:

1) Of all the nations of the world, which one today most closely resembles the political, military, and cultural hegemony of the Roman Empire?

2) When did the Roman Empire disappear? I mean, when did it really disappear?

3) What groups of people on the Earth refer to themselves, or have at some point in time referred to themselves as "Romans?"

There is a lot more to Christian theology than 19th-century premillenial dispensationalism.

Extra Stout
10-08-2007, 03:48 PM
I should answer my own questions:

1) The USA, of course. How do we know that we don't become the Whore of Babylon?

2) It really, finally, disappeared in 1453, when Constantinople fell to the Turks, and the line of Christian Roman Emperors came to an end.

3) Well, naturally, the Romans of Rome. But also then, the Greeks. In the old country, some of the elderly folk still refer to themselves as "Romaioi," since, strictly speaking, their Roman (Byzantine) Empire centered in Constantinople lasted much longer than the one actually centered in Rome. And also, the Russians, who think Moscow is the "Third Rome." And then, the Germans, and their "Holy Roman Empire" of medieval times. And, the Romanians. And, French-speaking Swiss, as well as the Romansch-speaking ones of Graubunden. And, the Turks, both the old Seljuks of the "Sultanate of Rum," and the Ottomans, conquerors of New Rome, who viewed themselves as the ultimate successors of the Rome of antiquity.

So, who are the real "Romans" of prophecy? And why are John Hagee and Tim LaHaye the authorities on interpretation here?

Phenomanul
10-08-2007, 04:22 PM
I don't think I've been quite that specific ES... at least not to the point where you would deem to infer my entire belief structure...

I've just alluded to the general fact that a once 'unified' Europe disbanded over the course of centuries to create several distinct nations. Now they are unifying again. I deem this to be a highly significant event... one that I believe is not a coincidence (my opinion).

Besides with regards to the highly contreversial subject of Apocalyptic interpretation I seem to be more in tune with Dr. Tony Evans, or Dr. David Jeremiah. Hagee errs on many premises because he fails to substantiate his beliefs with other scriptures. Evans and Jeremiah reference the entire Bible to piece together their views on Revelations. They also suggest that many things are subject to interpretion and speculative in nature... i.e. they don't claim to be the all-knowing experts on the subject - something which Hagee rarely if ever conveys.

Extra Stout
10-08-2007, 04:59 PM
I've just alluded to the general fact that a once 'unified' Europe disbanded over the course of centuries to create several distinct nations. Now they are unifying again. I deem this to be a highly significant event... one that I believe is not a coincidence (my opinion).
Equating the Roman Empire to Europe is a fallacy. Rome never controlled Germany, Scandinavia, the Baltic East, or European Russia; on the other hand, they dominated North Africa, Asia Minor, and the Levant.

The reason those other lands are not included in modern prophecy about the end times, is because it doesn't easily fit the framework of current events to claim that Egypt or Syria is going to join the EU.




Besides with regards to the highly contreversial subject of Apocalyptic interpretation I seem to be more in tune with Dr. Tony Evans, or Dr. David Jeremiah. Hagee errs on many premises because he fails to substantiate his beliefs with other scriptures. Evans and Jeremiah reference the entire Bible to piece together their views on Revelations. They also suggest that many things are subject to interpretion and speculative in nature... i.e. they don't claim to be the all-knowing experts on the subject - something which Hagee rarely if ever conveys.
Evans and Jeremiah are mainstream premillenial dispensationalists. That particular eschatology is dominant in American evangelicalism, although it seems strange that the Holy Spirit did not deem it fitting to enlighten anybody to it until the late 19th century.

Phenomanul
10-08-2007, 05:27 PM
Equating the Roman Empire to Europe is a fallacy. Rome never controlled Germany, Scandinavia, the Baltic East, or European Russia; on the other hand, they dominated North Africa, Asia Minor, and the Levant.

The reason those other lands are not included in modern prophecy about the end times, is because it doesn't easily fit the framework of current events to claim that Egypt or Syria is going to join the EU.

When did I mention the Roman Empire? You assumed that's what I was referencing.

Again, the concept was a general one based on events that we are seeing unfold in the present.



Evans and Jeremiah are mainstream premillenial dispensationalists. That particular eschatology is dominant in American evangelicalism, although it seems strange that the Holy Spirit did not deem it fitting to enlighten anybody to it until the late 19th century.

About as strange as acknowledging that prophecies written about Christ centuries before his birth weren't completely understood by entire generations of Jews/Israelites/Hebrews who lived before said event. For that matter, they weren't even understood by Jesus' contemporaries. On further, most Jews today still don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth fits the billing of the Messiah that they await... Your statement above, either has not considered this parallel or attempts to define/constrain when GOD is permitted to reveal the meaning of His Word. Yes, it is strange, but I certainly don't presume to know GOD's timing.

Besides Apocalyptic interpretation is a facet of the faith that is dwindled by a significantly more important step in the life of a believer in Christ. That is; that they repent of their sins, acknowledge Christ's atoning sacrifice for mankind, and accept the gift of Grace that personally grants us access to the Father via Christ's blood. My beliefs on what the earthly future holds for me, besides being speculative in nature, are insignificant in light of that bigger truth.

Phenomanul
10-08-2007, 05:46 PM
Whether something happens, or doesn't, that correlates with something in the Bible doesn't prove or even mean than the Bible foretold the future, nor that the Bible precisely, inerrantly, scientifically documents the past.

I find it "somewhat ironic" that someone so brilliantly, deeply, broadly educated would confound coincidence with accurate prediction.


Predictable response.

Technically, I could claim that you were described to a "T" in Romans Chapter 1, but that is neither here nor there.

But if you want some accurate prediction... here it goes:

"boutons_ will continue his pattern of derision towards the Republican Party and George W. Bush. He will continue to criticize their policies without offering a single valid solution to our country's problems. His intense hatred will live to see another day."

You want another one???

Didn't think so.

So either you prove me wrong and grant the forum a reprieve of your presence... or you prove my newfound 'predictibility' talent to be on point... and admit that your requisite was only another 'strawman'. The Bible is a book of faith with enough historical merit to deserve your respect. It is not meant to be used as a crystal-ball gimmick.

Cant_Be_Faded
10-08-2007, 06:13 PM
To any of you brainiacs out there

what do yall think would be the most plausible reasons why we are reporting higher arthritis rates?

exstatic
10-08-2007, 07:28 PM
To any of you brainiacs out there

what do yall think would be the most plausible reasons why we are reporting higher arthritis rates?
I think most of the illnesses profiled relate to obesity. Fat people, to answer your question, place MUCH more stress and wear and tear on their joints. That will eventually lead to osteo-arthritis.

Hemotivo
10-08-2007, 07:54 PM
NBA > Euroleague

Ocotillo
10-08-2007, 08:43 PM
Why does Boutons hate America?

boutons_
10-08-2007, 08:47 PM
why does Ocotillo think I hate America.

I didn't do the research of data in those articles, I didn't write the articles.

You don't like the message?

So rather than address the message you don't like and that you don't want to hear, you make erroneous assumptions about the messenger.

Ocotillo
10-08-2007, 09:36 PM
Easy there big fella, O was exercising some sarcasm.

boutons_
10-08-2007, 11:03 PM
oh, ok, and I love terrorists, too. I don't support the troops, etc, etc. :)

boutons_
10-09-2007, 06:05 AM
"what do yall think would be the most plausible reasons why we are reporting higher arthritis rates?"

Here's a huge hint:

October 9, 2007

Vital Signs, NYTimes

Nutrition: An Up Side to Hard Times

By NICHOLAS BAKALAR

Cuba’s economic crisis in the 1990s had a silver lining, scientists are reporting: a decrease in the rates of obesity, diabetes, coronary heart disease and stroke.

And no wonder. Average calorie consumption dropped more than a third, to 1,863 calories a day in 2002 from 2,899 in 1989. Cubans also exercised more, giving up cars for walking and bicycling.

Using national vital statistics and other sources, the researchers gathered data on energy intake, body weight and physical activity in Cuba from 1980 to 2005. In Cienfuegos, a large city on the southern coast, obesity rates decreased to less than 7 percent in 1995 from more than 14 percent in 1991. As more food became available, obesity increased to about 12 percent again by 2002.

Nationwide, coronary heart disease mortality declined 35 percent from 1997 to 2002. Diabetes mortality was down to less than 10 per 100,000 in 2003 from 19 per 100,000 in 1988. The death rate from all causes declined to 4.7 per thousand in 2002 from 5.9 per thousand in 1982.

“No one is recommending an economic crisis as a health measure,” said Dr. Manuel Franco of the department of epidemiology at Johns Hopkins. “What we are saying is that changes at the population level designed to reduce caloric intake and increase physical activity might be best suited to prevent obesity and its related conditions.”

The article was published online in The American Journal of Epidemiology.

=============

There are studies about WWI and II showing that food rationing in Britain and famine and near-famine conditions on the Continent caused a decrease in mortality due to heart diseases and diabetes during those wars and an increase between and after.

"Arthritis and diabetes are both common conditions that affect many Americans. The musculoskeletal system can be affected in diabetes, leading to conditions such as arthritis. For several reasons, diabetics should be aware of this association. In the presence of musculoskeletal complications, the knowledgeable diabetic can decrease pain, improve function and attempt to decrease the progressive severity of some forms of arthritis. Moreover, the diabetic should know that medications used for the treatment of arthritis can interfere with the treatment of diabetes."

http://www.nfb.org/nfb/arthritis_and_diabetes.asp?SnID=45807560

"Total Prevalence of Diabetes in the United States, All Ages, 2005

Total: 20.8 million people—7 percent of the population—have diabetes.

Diagnosed: 14.6 million people

Undiagnosed: 6.2 million people"

=========

"By 2002, an estimated 43 million adults in the USA reported being diagnosed by a doctor to have some form of arthritis, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, gout or lupus
...

Inactive lifestyles is clearly a factor in the growing number of cases. Around 43% of those adults who have been diagnosed with arthritis are also physically inactive. Consistently people who are overweight or obese are being diagnosed with arthritis.
"

http://www.uwmcarthritiscare.org/arthritis_statistics.shtml

========

btw, the health trends in Europe are somewhat negative, ie, people are getting fatter and sicker, "Americanized", as they do more fast food and American-style crap food marketing and as crap/processed foods (salt + sugar) increase, but America is still World Champion in game that all countries play, eating.

Holt's Cat
10-09-2007, 08:43 AM
So the US population tends to have poor diet and exercise habits due to the fact they haven't had their diet nor their transportation options limited in an impoverished third world land ruled by a dictatorship?

Extra Stout
10-09-2007, 08:56 AM
So the US population tends to have poor diet and exercise habits due to the fact they haven't had their diet nor their transportation options limited in an impoverished third world land ruled by a dictatorship?
It's pretty simple: in the U.S., unhealthy food is tasty, cheap, and ubiquitously available. Walking distances greater than 100 meters is rarely necessary, and often in retail areas in the suburbs is infeasible to the point of being dangerous.

In places where unhealthy food is expensive or difficult to obtain, or where it is necessary to walk longer distances either because vehicles are not available, or their access to certain zones is restricted, people tend not to be as fat. The reason Europeans aren't as fat is because they have to walk a lot more than we do. The reason they are yet growing fatter is because their eating habits are getting worse.

The downside of our affluence is that we have developed a culture constructed completely around consumerism, which is just a modern version of gluttony in all its various forms. People have known from the dawn of civilization that gluttony is harmful; we just choose not to listen.

Cuba, though, is not somehow more virtuous because its deprivation makes gluttony all but impossible.

Holt's Cat
10-09-2007, 08:59 AM
Throw in a preference for beer and hard liquor over wine as well as the American propensity to snack.

Holt's Cat
10-09-2007, 09:06 AM
In any event, it's not exactly a revelation that driving everywhere and gouging yourself at some "casual dining" restaurant will ultimately be bad for your health. Coronary disease used to be non-existent in the US (~19th Cen. to early 20th). Only when mechanized local transport became the norm, along with sedentary desk-bound work, and the population had more disposable income to drop on food, did that turn into one of America's top killers. I guess croutons yearns for yesteryear.

Extra Stout
10-09-2007, 09:11 AM
Throw in a preference for beer and hard liquor over wine as well as the American propensity to snack.
Germans and Czechs do love their beer, though.

Holt's Cat
10-09-2007, 09:15 AM
Germans and Czechs do love their beer, though.


True. As do their New World relations. :)

I would be interested in seeing the differences in various health measures across European states.

Extra Stout
10-09-2007, 09:52 AM
True. As do their New World relations. :)

I would be interested in seeing the differences in various health measures across European states.
Life expectancy in the EU:

Scandinavians: about 80
Latins: about 80
Germanic/Celtic: about 79
Greeks: about 79
Slavs: about 74

Anglosphere excluding U.S.: about 80
U.S.: about 78

U.S. broken down:
Asians: 85
Hispanics: 80
Midwestern whites: 79
Coastal/western whites: 78
Southern whites: 75
Western Native Americans: 73
Middle-class blacks: 73
Poor blacks: 71
Plains Native Americans: 58

DarkReign
10-09-2007, 11:23 AM
Plains Native Americans: 58

Wow.

That is a humongous disparity. 5-7 years is a humongous disparity.....20 years?!?! Unfathomable.

boutons_
10-09-2007, 11:51 AM
fixed, but the segment on health/Big Pharma is the end of this New Rules segment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RsHjhiVU60

DarkReign
10-09-2007, 11:55 AM
http://www.google.com/reader/view/?tab=my#stream/feed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fv.mercola.com%2FBlogs%2FMainFe ed.aspx

Link no work, or must one be logged in?