Celtics big 3 vs. Spurs big 3

[nkdlunch]

who's better?

I think Spurs big 3 of course

[jman3000]

as far as ppg potential and being the better individual players, it has to be the celtics big three by far... but as far as reality is concerned and adding chemistry and intangibles... it shifts the other way and tim, tony, and manu come out ahead.

[nkdlunch]

so individualy,
Garnett > Duncan
Pierce > Parker
Allen > Manu???

I don't know about that

[jman3000]

yes and no... i meant as far as the on paper stats will go... obviously with less shots to go around the ppg's of these players arent going to be the same... the celtic trio has historically giving you 22-28 ppg each... while the spurs' trio is more like 15-22.

[jman3000]

garnett > duncan makes me lol

[Supergirl]

Duncan > KG, but not by much
Manu > Allen, easily
Parker < Pierce, only because Pierce is bigger and stronger. Both have the same liability: turnovers. But they're such different styles of player, it's really hard to compare.

But where the Spurs are far better is the other 9 players on their roster. Rondo may develop into a superstar, or he may have a rocky sophomore year. Other than that, there's not much playoff tested talent on the Celtics, and a big 3 is really mostly valuable in the regular season. The Spurs are deep and talented, at both ends of the court. No one in the East even comes close. Only the Mavs, the Suns, the Nuggets, and the Jazz come close in the West.

[The_Game]

manu is not better than ray allen. manu is a good player but not as good as Ray.

[Man In Black]

Who the fuck cares?!?!?

I count it like this:
Tim 4 Rings
Manu 3 Rings
Tony 3 Rings

[SenorSpur]

who's better?

I think Spurs big 3 of course

No contest

[Scola Trade]

manu is not better than ray allen. manu is a good player but not as good as Ray.
Dude are u kidding? Ray is a better shooter than Manu, but Manu is better at everything else including playmaking and defense.

[Medvedenko]

hahah....manu better than Ray....sure.....why would you compare a bench player to Ray a perenial albeit whiny bitch all-star.

KG=TD
Man<Ray
TP<Pierce

Still, the edge of balance goes to the spurs....TP runs the point with Manu manning the wing while TD holds it down low.

[lrrr]

manu is not better than ray allen. manu is a good player but not as good as Ray.

Ray is a better shooter, that's it. Ray has typically put up big point totals on not so good teams. Manu does everything else better, and most importantly, Manu wins.

[Medvedenko]

Actually Ray has better rebounds and assist #'s than Manu...plus he can actually play more than 28 mins per game. Now Manu has the benefit of playing for the Spurs with TD, TP, Finley, Bowen and Barry playing with him...of course he will have better wins and rings.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Duncan>>>KG
Allen>Manu
Pierce>Parker (barely)

The rest of the Spurs team>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rest of Boston team.

[SenorSpur]

hahah....manu better than Ray....sure.....why would you compare a bench player to Ray a perenial albeit whiny bitch all-star.

KG=TD
Man<Ray
TP<Pierce

Still, the edge of balance goes to the spurs....TP runs the point with Manu manning the wing while TD holds it down low.

KG=TD? Are you freakin' kidding me?

KG puts up better stats, but TD doesn't have to carry his team anymore because he's got better talent. However make no mistake, TD greatness outmatches KG because of his championship resume. TD puts up championship rings.

[mardigan]

Duncan>>>KG
Allen>Manu
Pierce>Parker (barely)

The rest of the Spurs team>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rest of Boston team.
I agree with this.
Its hard to compare Parker and Pierce, but I would say Pierce is the better player right now. Allen has also lead teams without much talent past the first round of the playoffs, which is more than a guy like McGrady has done with more talent. I know a lot of Spurs fans hate Allen, but come on, theres no way Manu is better than Jesus.

Btw, did anyone see the highlights of the Celts/T-Wolves game? Garnett was getting everyone involved, they should be fun to watch this year.

[nkdlunch]

I had Pierce compared to Parker because Parker is arguiably Spurs 2nd best player, just like Pierce. I think

Duncan > Garnett
Parker < Pierce (barely)
Manu > Allen (btw Manu is not a "bench" player, and he can play 28 minutes, it's just Pops decision)

[mardigan]

I had Pierce compared to Parker because Parker is arguiably Spurs 2nd best player, just like Pierce. I think

Duncan > Garnett
Parker < Pierce (barely)
Manu > Allen (btw Manu is not a "bench" player, and he can play 28 minutes, it's just Pops decision not to)
How in the world do you think Manu is a better player than Allen?

[nkdlunch]

How in the world do you think Manu is a better player than Allen?

Manu can actually carry a team, he gets other players involved. They are both clutch in the 4th quarters, but Manu is a better ballhandler and playmaker in the 4th.

Manu is also a better penetrator and playmaker than Allen. Not to mention Manu is also a better defender. Allen pretty much is just a better shooter.

[Hemotivo]

TP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pierce

[mardigan]

Manu can actually carry a team, he gets other players involved. They are both clutch in the 4th quarters, but Manu is a better ballhandler and playmaker in the 4th.

Manu is also a better penetrator and playmaker than Allen. Not to mention Manu is also a better defender. Allen pretty much is just a better shooter.
Allen has carried teams by himself, Manu has never had to carry anything. And when Allen is healthy, I dont think Manu is a better defender at all. The team makes manu look a lot better than he is on defense.


TP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pierce
At point guard

[Medvedenko]

For only 28 minutes at a time......You're comparing a career 13 point guy that predominately plays on the bench in the reg season and playoffs with Ray Allen....take the home glasses off. I love Manu, serioulsy I do, but if he can play 40 mins per game at the same high level...than let's see it. That's the beauty of the spurs...he doesn't have to. Now you put Manu to be the main man on an NBA team....let's see how well he does.

[nkdlunch]

Manu has never had to carry anything.

Manu has carried Spurs plenty times in playoff games in title years. you have short memory

and Manu has carried his entire team to Olympic gold.

If I had a choice I'd pick Manu over Allen 100% of the time.

[Medvedenko]

Well Lunch...that's your opinion....no worries bro....it's all good. Like I said when Manu came into the league as a Laker fan I was very worried at what he brings to the table as player and teammate...I was right....history speaks for itself. However, if I had to choose Jesus or Manu as the main option on a team, I'd go with Ray...

[nkdlunch]

Well Lunch...that's your opinion....no worries bro....it's all good. Like I said when Manu came into the league as a Laker fan I was very worried at what he brings to the table as player and teammate...I was right....history speaks for itself. However, if I had to choose Jesus or Manu as the main option on a team, I'd go with Ray...

no problem. IMO iyour points, that Manu is a "bench" player and does not play 40 minutes a game and thus not a better player than Allen, make a pretty weak argument.

[mardigan]

Manu has carried Spurs plenty times in playoff games in title years. you have short memory

and Manu has carried his entire team to Olympic gold.

If I had a choice I'd pick Manu over Allen 100% of the time.
I'm not saying that, Im saying you dont think that if Ray Allen was playing with Duncan and Parker he would'nt have had his moments as well? Manu has the luxery of not being the teams number one option, which makes things a lot easier for him. Allen on the other hand has always been his teams number one option, usually without a decent number 2, and the guy still fills it up. Manu is one of my favorite players ever, but he has never had the kind of pressure on him that Allen has. Allen is a much bigger threat than Manu.

And Im sure guys like Oberto, Scola, Delfino, Nocioni, and Herrmann didnt help win gold either.

[Walter Craparita]

Manu over Allen

He's probably cheaper and he has more heart.

[nkdlunch]

I'm not saying that, Im saying you dont think that if Ray Allen was playing with Duncan and Parker he would'nt have had his moments as well? Manu has the luxery of not being the teams number one option, which makes things a lot easier for him. Allen on the other hand has always been his teams number one option, usually without a decent number 2, and the guy still fills it up.

so I guess we will find out this season if Ray can carry the Celtics for a few playoff series. But UP TO NOW that has not happened.



And Im sure guys like Oberto, Scola, Delfino, Nocioni, and Herrmann didnt help win gold either.

they are decent role players at best. Truth is Manu carried Argentina. Even they acknowledge that.

[ducks]

so I guess we will find out this season if Ray can carry the Celtics for a few playoff series. But UP TO NOW that has not happened.



they are decent role players at best. Truth is Manu carried Argentina. Even they acknowledge that.
did he?
they sure played well without him this year :p:

[Xylus]

If you add up the sum of the parts for each Big 3, the Boston 3 come out on top by a landslide, in my opinion. Duncan and Garnett are practically on the same level, Pierce is better than Parker, and Ray Allen is better than Manu.

But teams aren't always a sum of their parts, and in the Spurs' case, they win because they're extremely well-coached, well-disciplined, have great chemistry, and they also have great role players to accompany them. The Boston 3 haven't proven anything because they haven't played a single game yet... so we'll see. I doubt they'll ever be as good as the San Antonio 3 have proven to be.

[lrrr]

"Better" is such a subjective word...

I remember a quote by Pop a few years ago saying that there is no shooting guard (except Kobe) in the league he would rather have than Manu. Of course, this was before DWade exploded onto the scene...

Stats are not everything, sheesh, would you want VC on your team?

[wildchild]

TP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pierce

I AGREE. Every day the guys do down him. Why? He's the Final's Mvp. yeah, his defense in improved but his speed helps the team in defense transition. Parker's underrated by many Spurs fans. You can say that again.

Duncan>Garnett
Manu>Allen
Parker>Pierce

[Nikos]

Ray is better than Manu. Not sure how much, but you have to give him the nod because of his scoring ability and consistency since 2000. Ray has been a #1 option and a damn good and efficient one at that. He has had some very solid offensive help over the years, but he was always the clearcut best offensive player on his team each season.

Remember that a Ray Allen led Seattle team gave the Spurs tons of trouble WITHOUT Rashard Lewis and Radmonovic..... Ray certainly is a solid #1 option and could be an excellent #2 option in his own right. His game clearly appears to be perfect as a compliment player -- especially with a guy like Garnett. Remember how well Cassell played off KG? Ray has the same type of potential if he is healthy.

I get the feeling Ray can be seen in a better light alongside Garnett on defense as well. He will have more energy with less of the offensive load on his shoulders. But he does have injury problems and is getting a little older these days so who knows?

Ginobili certainly can hold his own against Ray in stretches and probably outplay him from time to time. But again, I think you would see Rays efficiency and PER be pretty high as well if he played 32-33mpg alongside TD or another star big man. His D might not be as solid as Manu's, but not too drastically far off that his offensive game would not make up for it.

Ray isn't on the level of the Kobe, Wade, or Prime Tmac's. But I would say he is a slight cut above Manu -- unless he declines this season healthwise. The MPG will be a big factor in telling if age has indeed caught up to him.

Not a knock on Manu. He is a borderline all star player -- just not a superstar or quite on Ray's prime level. Now if Manu can rekindle that 2005 Playoff form, I might have to alter my opinion slightly ;)

[MrChug]

OVERALL? Celtics Big 3 of course...but this isn't a 3 on 3 tournament. ;)

[mavs>spurs2]

KG=Duncan
Pierce>Parker
Allen>Ginobili

That said, the Spurs depth, coaching, teamwork, and other intangibles definately give them the advantage in a matchup, basketball is about the TEAM not 3 players.

[xamila rey]

did he?
they sure played well without him this year :p:

this summer the Arg NT didnt play against many good teams,
totally different scenario will be in the Olympics.

[Dex]

That said, the Spurs depth, coaching, teamwork, and other intangibles definately give them the advantage in a matchup, basketball is about the TEAM not 3 players.

Pretty much sums it up right here, people.

You all can argue until you're blue in the face over who you think is better than who, but when it comes down to it basketball is a team sport.

And I don't think anybody is going to argue that the Celtics have a better team than the Spurs.

Both teams have three All Stars. All other facets go in the Spurs favor...except maybe free throw shooting.

I know I like San Antonio's odds. But I'd rather just sit and wait until the games are played to find out.

[Spurs Dynasty 21]

Duncan>>>>>KG


Manu/Paker>>>>>Allen/Pierce



this is no contest

[mardigan]

Duncan>>>>>KG


Manu/Paker>>>>>Allen/Pierce



this is no contest
In the eyes of homers it never is

[VinnyTestesVerde]

spurs>celtics big 3. there's no question. end of story. sorry boston...

but not really sorry at all actually.

fuck the patriots too now that i think about it.

[Xylus]

http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/7/n/5/-/-/homer_simpson.jpg

[resistanze]

If you compare them individually as their components, Boston. But that's a pretty useless assessment since Boston's trio doesn't consist of a top tier PG and thus is more unbalanced.

Kind of like saying saying Shaq, Yao, Amare > Parker, Pierce, and Dwight Howard but ignoring how unbalanced the first trio is.

[resistanze]

http://z.about.com/d/tvcomedies/1/7/n/5/-/-/homer_simpson.jpg
:lol

[Manudona]

For only 28 minutes at a time......You're comparing a career 13 point guy that predominately plays on the bench in the reg season and playoffs with Ray Allen....take the home glasses off. I love Manu, serioulsy I do, but if he can play 40 mins per game at the same high level...than let's see it. That's the beauty of the spurs...he doesn't have to. Now you put Manu to be the main man on an NBA team....let's see how well he does.

But, for every action there is a reaction, for every face of a coin there is a tail...

So, you say that Allen is better for you do not think Manu can perform 40 minutes (that is funny by itself coming from a Lakers fan, for Manu's arguably best game came in a game against the Kobe-Shaq lead Lakers, where Tony and Tim where out and Manu push them to the limit), anyways, I digress, you said that Ray is better for Manu can not perform for more than 28 minutes (and that is a completely biased opinion, think about it and you might come to the idea that is better for the team that he plays only 28 minutes to have better rotations or whatnot... darn, I digress again... lets start again

You say Ray is better for he was able to perform well in a sub-par team, pushing very nice numbers while Manu "can only play 28 minutes", but my point is that is a completely unfair point of view, for you do not say anything about Ray in Manu's role. Would he be willing to come from the bench to make his team better? Would he be willing to perform well coming from the bench? Would he be productive playing only 28 minutes? It is possible he never gets rhythm playing so few minutes.. etc. On the other hand, no matter how you and many people try to disguise it or invalidate it, Manu has been the go-to guy of many other teams with always the same result: a championship (and many individual awards for Him, interesting, right?)

Lastly, I would recommend you to read the Hollinger post about Manu.

[Deimosfobos]

Manu has carried Spurs plenty times in playoff games in title years. you have short memory

and Manu has carried his entire team to Olympic gold.

If I had a choice I'd pick Manu over Allen 100% of the time.

I have to agree with you...

Ray for the stats, Manu for the win... what do you prefer? I'll take the win :)

Also, pierce is a joke, TP is a lot better imo.

People think the Celtics will do great now... i'll be :lol at the end of the season when they barly make the playoffs. They are all smoke and no substance.

[Medvedenko]

Sorry homers....I'd take a guy that can play over 40 minutes per game while carrying his team over a solid role player on a championship team. The arguement was never about replacing ray with manu...but who's the better ball player. I choose Jesus...and you choose a career 13 point player who only plays 28 mins per game. Now does he not have great games....for sure he does....but there's a reason he doesn't start and it's not just that it's better for the team BS.....

[Axl Van Dam]

Who the fuck cares?!?!?

I count it like this:
Tim 4 Rings
Manu 3 Rings
Tony 3 Rings

:tu :tu :tu :tu :tu

[Deimosfobos]

Sorry homers....I'd take a guy that can play over 40 minutes per game while carrying his team over a solid role player on a championship team. The arguement was never about replacing ray with manu...but who's the better ball player. I choose Jesus...and you choose a career 13 point player who only plays 28 mins per game. Now does he not have great games....for sure he does....but there's a reason he doesn't start and it's not just that it's better for the team BS.....

Calling who ever think diferent homer must be something smart guys do i guess...

We'll see who is right at the end of the season, i mean, if you are right, Celtics should end first on the East easy, if im right, they won't.

GL

[Manudona]

Pretty solid arguments, we are homers, end of discussion. Amazing.

[Xylus]

I'm with Medvedenko on this one.

[Manudona]

I'm with Medvedenko on this one.

Yes, we can see. You have pretty solid arguments too.

[Xylus]

Yes, we can see. You have pretty solid arguments too.
Why thank you.

[Trainwreck2100]

As has been aid here numerous times Boston's big three is better, but the Spurs have a better team.

[polandprzem]

Parker < Pierce, only because Pierce is bigger and stronger. Both have the same liability: turnovers. But they're such different styles of player, it's really hard to compare.


So what that he is bigger and stronger?
That not what makes a basketball player.

To me the comaprison between big 3's is like comparison between Duncan and Hakeem latelly.
Many would choose Boston just because of better stats.
And when you comparing 'threes' you have to look at how they work together in team.
Spurs like Duncan are better IMHO

[mathbzh]

1 vs. 1 the 2 "big 3" are almost equals but our big 3 is more balance and we have the good piece to put around them.

The only important thing is that Spurs >>> Celtics

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Dude are u kidding? Ray is a better shooter than Manu, but Manu is better at everything else including playmaking and defense.

Sorry Ray is much better than Manu in one more department...








Whinning like a little pussy! (After Bowen steals his candy)

[TDMVPDPOY]

boston big 3 = havnt proven shit

spurs big 3 = 3 rings together and not stopping

[exstatic]

Ray Allen is weak between the legs. If any of you non-Spurs have league pass, check out the Boston/SA games this year, and watch his ass wilt at the very sight of Bruce Bowen. Bowen is so far inside his head, he's set up housekeeping and is ordering room service. No one could possibly do anything like that to Manu.

I'd say their (Ray/Manu) skill sets are similar, but I'd rather have Manu's heart and balls for 28 minutes than Ray the Whiner Vaginer for 40.

[Holt's Cat]

This discussion begins and ends with TD and KG. A team with TD on it is an automatic playoff team, in the Western Conference, no less. A team with KG on it has missed the last 3 playoffs. If this is supposedly a player on par with TD that is downright pathetic. Kevin Garnett is the most overrated player of his generation in the NBA. His playoff performances make DRob's pre-TD postseasons look downright glorious.

You can't take 3 guys who were the man on weak teams and expect them to somehow turn a team into a championship winner. In the NBA if a player in his prime is not good enough to carry his own team into the postseason then his rep is overrated. In addition, Allen and Pierce can put up a lot of points, but not much else. If you put TP or Manu in the position of being the man on a team they'd be able to score as much. But that's not the issue. The Spurs' Big 3 knows how to win championships together. They know how to play defense.

I'd be very surprised to see the Celtics come out of the East. You can't put 3 soft bitches on the same team and expect to win a NBA championship. Just ask the Mavs.

[Holt's Cat]

And of course the stat geeks are creaming themselves over the Celtics. They will be a prime example of the limitations of using individual player stats to evaluate a team's potential for success.

Anyways, I don't see this discussion as much of one once you are done comparing TD with KG. But if you must, if I wanted to build a title team I'd go with the big game player in Manu over Pierce.

The one common mistake NBA fans and the media tend to make is not discounting the performance of high scorers on shitty teams enough. Spurs fans should remember that Antoine Carr was once a 20 point a night man in the NBA.

Never forget the Antoine Carr Rule.

[mavs>spurs2]

Ray Allen is weak between the legs. If any of you non-Spurs have league pass, check out the Boston/SA games this year, and watch his ass wilt at the very sight of Bruce Bowen. Bowen is so far inside his head, he's set up housekeeping and is ordering room service. No one could possibly do anything like that to Manu.

I'd say their (Ray/Manu) skill sets are similar, but I'd rather have Manu's heart and balls for 28 minutes than Ray the Whiner Vaginer for 40.

Um...ooook

[to21]

The Celtics big 3 are better by stats, athleticism, and pure overall talent. But, when in the hell has that ever mattered?

The bigger question is which big three would you want on your team? I like the three we have now.

[mystargtr34]

KG=Duncan
Pierce>Parker
Allen>Ginobili

That said, the Spurs depth, coaching, teamwork, and other intangibles definately give them the advantage in a matchup, basketball is about the TEAM not 3 players.

So, in other words, KG >>> Dirk ?

[spursfan09]

Ok well I agree overall statistically Boston's big 3 is better than the Spurs big 3. That being said when Tim Duncan is one of the big 3 it does not matter who the other big 3 are. Plus he Manu and Tony are all proven winners. Boston has not proved they can win and develop the kind of chemistry the Spurs have. This big 3 has been playing together for years. So while Ray Allen scores alot more points than Manu, Manu has stepped up in the big show and has came through so many times. So instead of saying I think he's better than Ray Allen I will say I trust him more in the big games. What has Allen proved? Allen will be more concerned about Bowen anyway.

[Holt's Cat]

Allen and Pierce have scored more points because they were the man on their respective shitty teams. That means very little when evaluating the Celtics title prospects.

[mardigan]

Allen and Pierce have scored more points because they were the man on their respective shitty teams. That means very little when evaluating the Celtics title prospects.
The thread doesnt ask if they will win the title, only for a comparison of players.

[wildchild]

So, in other words, KG >>> Dirk ?

Obviosly. Timmy>>>>>KG. KG>Nowitzki

[SAGambler]

manu is not better than ray allen. manu is a good player but not as good as Ray.
I suppose it's all in how you look at it. While Ray Ray may be a better true shooter than Manu, he hasn't got the hustle and the "give it up for the team" attitude that Manu has.

If I had to pick one of them to be on a team I was forming, it would be Manu all the way. Not even a close call as far as I'm concerned. He just does things on the court that stats don't show.

[Holt's Cat]

The thread doesnt ask if they will win the title, only for a comparison of players.

If championships are not the subject what's the point? Going by stats alone is absurd.

[Holt's Cat]

I suppose it's all in how you look at it. While Ray Ray may be a better true shooter than Manu, he hasn't got the hustle and the "give it up for the team" attitude that Manu has.

If I had to pick one of them to be on a team I was forming, it would be Manu all the way. Not even a close call as far as I'm concerned. He just does things on the court that stats don't show.

Allen scored more points on shitty teams. BFD.

[hater]

Individual Skillswise, I would say:
Duncan >> KG
Parker = Pierce
Manu < Allen (barely)

so, which 3 are better is pretty much a tossup.

Yes, Manu is a better defender and more clutch and playmaker in the 4th, but Allen is just way better and consistent offensive player than Manu.

I cannot beleive ppl say Pierce is clearly > Parker. that is BS.

If I was starting my own team, I would pick Duncan, Parker and Manu over KG, Pierce, Allen.

[Holt's Cat]

The only difference between Manu, Allen, and Pierce is that the latter two are overpaid. I can't believe Spurs fans would think those two are any better than Manu.

[mardigan]

The only difference between Manu, Allen, and Pierce is that the latter two are overpaid. I can't believe Spurs fans would think those two are any better than Manu.
Why wouldnt someone? Nothing against Manu, but I know that Allen can carry a shitty team to the playoffs by himself. I know that teams have to gameplan for Allen. I also know that Manu hasnt ever had to play a bunch of minutes, or be "the guy" on a team. Im not saying Manu couldnt do it, but we will probably never know. Allen is just as cold blooded as Manu, and just because he's hated by Spur fans, wont get the credit he deserves. Not everyone gets to play with Tim Duncan, which Im sure makes the game a little easier.

I can almost guarantee if you asked fans from other teams which guy they would rather have, most would say Allen.

[Holt's Cat]

I also know Allen can't carry a team to the postseason. Allen's not as good overall as Manu.

[mardigan]

I also know Allen can't carry a team to the postseason. Allen's not as good overall as Manu.
Except he has 4 times, twice getting out of the second round.
Manu isnt better at anything really, except maybe not getting hurt as much

[Holt's Cat]

4 times? 3 of those were due in no small part to two other teammates.

[Reggie Miller]

These comparisons minimize an important fact. The Spurs' Big Three play more or less "traditional" roles, with the possible exception of Parker. (Parker doesn't need to be the next John Sotckton in the Spurs' system.) Sure, Ginobili is also a slasher, but he can and does play like a traditional SG when the situation calls for it.

In contrast, the Celtics' Big Three were all the primary options on their respective teams, and they have been allowed to do whatever they want. Despite the protests of his supporters, KG has no low post game. If he does, then why doesn't he use it? In other words, KG does not play like a traditional PF or C. Similarly, Pierce would rather take jumpshots from the perimeter, and he plays more like a SG. Allen plays like a traditional SG, but obviously, he isn't exactly known for his mental toughness. In the final analysis, you have three players who have to: 1) Adapt to a new role on a new team (this even applies to Pierce, with all of the player turnover); 2) Learn how to play together, communicate on the floor, etc.; and 3) Make some major adjustments in their playing styles so that all three can be effective on the court at the same time.

Do you really think Doc Rivers has the leadership skills to pull this off?

For the sake of staying on topic, I will add that individually the Celtics look pretty good, but I would take the Spurs' Big Three and their more reasonable contracts.

[mardigan]

4 times? 3 of those were due in no small part to two other teammates.
Even with Robinson and Cassel, he was the main option on those teams. And the Seattle team that lost to the Spurs in the playoffs gave them a great series, due in large part to Allen. And the two other teamate crack is funny, because I could say the same thing about anything Manu has accomplished in the NBA.

[hater]

Except he has 4 times, twice getting out of the second round.
Manu isnt better at anything really, except maybe not getting hurt as much

Allen did not singlehandedly carry the Supersonics. THey were a decent team that was winning in regular season as well. they also were beating the hell out of Duncan when we played them in playoffs.

Manu is better at defense, passing and in playmaking. When is the last time Allen did a sweet assist??

But I agree Allen overall is better player because he is so much better offensively and more consistent.

[And1Mak]

It's pretty close.

The thing is, Manu, TP, and TD all compliment each other very well.
Don't really know much about the Celtics so far.

So, I would give the slight edge to the Spurs big 3 for chemistry/experience.

[mardigan]

Allen did not singlehandedly carry the Supersonics. THey were a decent team that was winning in regular season as well. they also were beating the hell out of Duncan when we played them in playoffs.

Manu is better at defense, passing and in playmaking. When is the last time Allen did a sweet assist??

But I agree Allen overall is better player because he is so much better offensively and more consistent.
The only other player that the Sonics had was Rashard Lewis, who missed 3 games and only averaged like 17 points while shooting only 40%. Allen was that team.

And Allen averages 4 assists a game for his career, which isnt great, but its not like he's a black hole or anything.

[smeagol]

Why is the fact one plays 28 minutes and the other 40 relevant?

The question is what kind of an impact the two players have with the minutes they are given.

Manu in the 4th querters has a much bigger impact on the outcome of games that Ray does in the 4 quarters added up together.

And people saying Pierce > Parker need to check themselves.

[smeagol]

And Allen averages 4 assists a game for his career, which isnt great, but its not like he's a black hole or anything.

Is he a better passer/playmaker than Manu?

[Cry Havoc]

It's pretty close.

The thing is, Manu, TP, and TD all compliment each other very well.
Don't really know much about the Celtics so far.

So, I would give the slight edge to the Spurs big 3 for chemistry/experience.

End of thread.

Some homerific Spurs opinions propagating throughout this thread. My goodness, Ray Allen on the Spurs would be a terror. Pierce is a bit overrated but he's still a GREAT player.

The main difference is our boys have had years of playing together, as is said above.

[mardigan]

Why is the fact one plays 28 minutes and the other 40 relevant?

The question is what kind of an impact the two players have with the minutes they are given.

Manu in the 4th querters has a much bigger impact on the outcome of games that Ray does in the 4 quarters added up together.

And people saying Pierce > Parker need to check themselves.
Well if minutes arent relevant, than I guess I have to look at the stats, which he is far ahead in.
And Im sure that if Allen was the Spurs shooting guard he wouldnt ever have an effect on games, especially in the 4th quarter.
Manu is able to be effective because of what is around him. Allen has never had the players around him Manu has, so lets see what he does this year.

And Tony is a better point, Pierce is a better sf, kind of hard to compare the two. But even if someone wanted to say he ws better, it doesnt make them wrong, pierce is a hell of a player.

[mardigan]

Is he a better passer/playmaker than Manu?
I dont know if he's better, but he can do things when he is motivated.
Again, Manu is probably one of my top 3 players in the NBA, and I cant stand Allen, but Jesus is still one of the NBA's best players, and unless you have a Bowen, is a tough guy to stop.

[Jimcs50]

I like our Big 12 over their Big 12, but maybe I am just naive.

[phxspurfan]

Can't we make similar arguments about Stoudemire, Marion and Nash? How about Dirk, Howard and Harris? Not to mention Rasheed, Rip and Chauncey (with Tayshaun = Bowen)... There are plenty of teams with arguably better "Big 3's" than us, but we have beaten them all pretty routinely recently (except for Dallas).

[ManuTastic]

If the NBA was a 3 - on -3 league, it would be really fun to watch those two trios go at each other. But it's not. In this reality, SA is a better team with a way better coach and way more championship experience. I can easily see the C's winning the East this year and I hope they do because i live in Boston, but I think the Spurs would beat them handily in the championship series.

[hater]

word!

[1Parker1]

Actually Ray has better rebounds and assist #'s than Manu...plus he can actually play more than 28 mins per game. Now Manu has the benefit of playing for the Spurs with TD, TP, Finley, Bowen and Barry playing with him...of course he will have better wins and rings.


That's weird...because Manu didn't have TD, TP, Finley, Bowen, and Barry playing with him in the Olympics and he did pretty good being the Man then....

[hater]

That's weird...because Manu didn't have TD, TP, Finley, Bowen, and Barry playing with him in the Olympics and he did pretty good being the Man then....

according to Rockets fans, Manu had a future hall of famer in scola

[barbacoataco]

Manu Ginobili was ranked #9 in the ENTIRE NBA last year by Hollinger's PER statistic, which many experts think is a very accurate gauge. Not 9th among guards, 9th among everyone. So I'm not sure why Allen is better if you "go by statistics."
Duncan is clearly better than Garnett. They are similar enough to compare, and Duncan is the player who has been able to come up with big shots in big games. Parker vs. Pierce is more difficult because they are different players. Pierce takes more shots and scores more points, but Parker shoots a higher % and is the current Finals MVP.
If the Celtics big 3 is so great then they should have no problem representing the East this year.

[mardigan]

That's weird...because Manu didn't have TD, TP, Finley, Bowen, and Barry playing with him in the Olympics and he did pretty good being the Man then....
No but he had an entire NBA roster playing with him

[smeagol]

Manu is able to be effective because of what is around him.

I know you only care about the NBA but this statement is BS.

Manu has been doing what he does for the Spurs for his whole life.

In Argentina, in Italy, in the Olympics with the NT and in none of those temas he had a TD or last year's TP.

Of course TD makes people around him better, but Manu can play the way he plays with the Spurs with any team and he has proven this time an time again.

Allen is a much better shooter than Manu, aside from that, Manu is better in almost everything else. He is a better passer, a better defender, a better slasher, more clutch . . . you name it.

But a big % of basketball fans put O over the rest of the aspects of the game. That is why guys like Allen or Redd are considered superstars.

[smeagol]

No but he had an entire NBA roster playing with him
Not at the time they won the gold, he didn't.

[smeagol]

For me, Manu vs Allen is not clear cut. Some people prefer one over the other and viceversa.

TD > Garnett, no arguments there.

IMO, 2007 Parker > Pierce and I expect than that will continue going forward. I do agree that the comparison is difficult because they are such different players.

[Manudona]

I know you only care about the NBA but this statement is BS.

Manu has been doing what he does for the Spurs for his whole life.

In Argentina, in Italy, in the Olympics with the NT and in none of those teams he had a TD or last year's TP.

Of course TD makes people around him better, but Manu can play the way he plays with the Spurs with any team and he has proven this time an time again.



Not only he did not have TD with him, there were instances where Tim was on the other team...

[manubili]

Pierce, Garnett and Allen stats will change playing together. Is not fair to compare stats when they were the first option in their former teams.