Barry Sanders - Overrated

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Utter garbage...that spawns the old Emmitt vs. Barry debate in the Comments section.

This confirms that SalPal is an idiot.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=paolantonio_sal&id=3055421

[mardigan]

Dont even have to read it. Someone that calls Barry Sanders overated shouldnt have a job writing about football. I dont know if any star has ever had the lack of talent surrounding them as Sanders, and he still was a huge producer.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Paolantonio = :drunk :drunk :drunk

[Tippecanoe]

:lmao

how does this guy still have a job?

[Marklar MM]

the list is laughable

[O-Factor]

I never had much respect for SalPal, but now he's just a joke for me. Sounds like he's just trying to get his name out there. Can you imagine if Sanders played on a competive football team??? Geez. If Sanders failed in big games it was because of the faliure of the team around him.

[Cry Havoc]

"Sanders' postseason performance supports the notion that he was a product of the cozy, climate-controlled Silverdome. Nice carpet for easy, stop-on-a-dime maneuvering. Seventy-two degrees. Detroit faithful keeping the defensive line off balance with high decibel support."

Yes, you need the stop-on-a-dime maneuvering and extremely noisy crowd when you have no semblance of an offensive line or a SINGLE threat on offense except your own two legs and your field vision.

What an idiot.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Uhh, Sal, isn't the home crowd usually quieter when the home team has the ball?

And ask John Lynch how those stop-on-a-dime moves fare on grass...

[2centsworth]

all you can ask of a writer is to support his arguments with facts. SALPAL did a pretty good job of doing that.

Nevertheless, Barry Sanders was the best RB I've ever seen.

[Flight3107]

when you have no semblance of an offensive line or a SINGLE threat on offense except your own two legs and your field vision.

What an idiot.



No semblance of an offensive line? If I remember correctly, Lomas Brown made 6 consecutive Pro Bowl appearances from 90-95 as well as Kevin Glover making the Pro Bowl 3 consecutive times from 95-97 all while playing for the Detroit Lions.


As for the "or a SINGLE threat on offense except your own two legs and your field vision." comment, you might want to check Herman Moore's stats and then come back and tell me that Sanders was the only threat on that offense. Hell even Scott Mitchell had a season where he threw for 32 TD's and ran for 4 more while playing in Detroit.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Here's some numbers to chew on:

3.5 YPC, 70 yds/playoff game, 2 rushing TDs in 9 playoff games

Guess who?

[Flight3107]

Payton

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Payton


Overrated

[fyatuk]

Didn't Barry Sanders lead the league in negative yardage plays year after year? That's the only thing that ever bugged me about him. I hate running backs who lose yardage because they dance.

[Flight3107]

Overrated


Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

It's something like 400+ career carries for -1100+ yards.

It averages out to about 3 carries/game for -8 yards.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

And ask John Lynch how those stop-on-a-dime moves fare on grass...

Hadn't seen it in a while, roughly 3 minutes in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yifWMmU7cSM

[tlongII]

Barry is the 2nd best running back to ever play the game imo.

[K-State Spur]

knocking barry's postseason stats sounds good until you actually remember the games.

that green bay game where he had 13 carries for -1 yards was ridiculous. there were always 2 and sometimes 3 or 4 guys in the backfield before he even got the ball in his hands.

[O-Factor]

knocking barry's postseason stats sounds good until you actually remember the games.

that green bay game where he had 13 carries for -1 yards was ridiculous. there were always 2 and sometimes 3 or 4 guys in the backfield before he even got the ball in his hands.

All you had to do was take away Barry to be the Lions back then. Stack the box, 8 man fronts.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

In that game, they were times when they had 9 defenders in the box.

Sounds crazy until you remember who was the Lions' QB: Dave Krieg, who was a spry 36 at the time.

[exstatic]

Barry Sanders was Gayle Sayers, minus the bad knees. Calling him over rated is like calling Da Vinci or Michaelangelo over rated.

[monosylab1k]

calling Barry overrated is just flat out stupid. if you question his leadership & dedication, maybe you've got a point. but there was nothing overrated about what Barry did on the field.

[kskonn]

Can you imagine what his stats had been if he had the Cowboys offensive line of the early nineties? He possibly could have averaged 6-7 yards per carry.

[DarkReign]

Can you imagine what his stats had been if he had the Cowboys offensive line of the early nineties? He possibly could have averaged 6-7 yards per carry.

Lions fans of the 90s used to have the argument every Sunday.

[monosylab1k]

Can you imagine what his stats had been if he had the Cowboys offensive line of the early nineties? He possibly could have averaged 6-7 yards per carry.
Eh let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yes, Emmitt played with a great offensive line, but don't take anything away from Emmitt. His ability to see plays unfold before they happened, along with his patience to wait for the hole to open, then his timing to hit the hole at the perfect time, his discipline to follow his blockers, they all played a huge part in his success.

I don't know if Barry had that same discipline and vision. Granted, I watched Emmitt 16+ games a year, and Barry maybe three or four games a year. I just don't like it when people attribute all of Emmitt's success to his line, as if any asshole could run for 1500 yards with that line. We all saw how shitty the Cowboys played when Derrick Lassic or Sherman Williams had to sub in for Emmitt. Emmitt had superb discipline, vision, and intelligence on the field, perhaps more than any other back ever.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

There is no question that Emmitt played in a better organization and was surrounded by better talent. But it's pure conjecture to say Sanders would have done better as a Cowboy during the 90s. The signs point to yes, but we'll never know because it never happened.

Both deserve to be mentioned in the conversation of all-time greats. No need to knock one to prop up the other.

[K-State Spur]

But there is no doubt that the Cowboys had a much better O-Line than the Lions did. It's hard to believe that Barry would have only maintained his stats with a better OL.

[mardigan]

But there is no doubt that the Cowboys had a much better O-Line than the Lions did. It's hard to believe that Barry would have only maintained his stats with a better OL.
Not to mention a better qb, te, wr's, and fullback.

[monosylab1k]

Barry was incredible, but Emmitt was the perfect back for Jimmy Johnson's system. How would Barry have done in a system that demanded discipline and simplicity over creativity and risk-taking?

Emmitt basically ran two plays - run left through the line or run right through the line. He followed the blocking scheme and if the play was busted, he didn't do anything risky. Exactly what Jimmy Johnson wanted. I don't think Jimmy would have stood for all of Barry's negative yardage plays that he brought upon himself. Then again, he'd probably be pleased with him busting a 90 yard run from of a dead play. Either way, I doubt Jimmy's coaching style would have meshed with Barry's running style.

Emmitt would have done well anywhere, but he obviously was in the perfect situation for his abilities. Barry wasn't in the perfect situation, but I doubt Dallas would have been the perfect situation for him. I think it's really unfair to say Barry would have done better in Emmitt's situation, or that Emmitt wouldn't have done as well in Barry's.

[stretch]

Well, I dont think he was saying that he would do good if he was in Emmit's situation. I think he meant it more like, "imagine what he could have done with an OL the caliber of Dallas' OL"

[samikeyp]

IMO, Barry Sanders was the best pure runner ever. I think there were some better overall football players, but as far as just a pure runner...Barry was the best.

Even though I think there were better football players, to say he was overrated is just stupid. I am surprised SalPal didn't go on a 4 paragraph diatribe on how misunderstood and ignored by the HOF Wilbert Montgomery was. :rolleyes

[K-State Spur]

Barry was incredible, but Emmitt was the perfect back for Jimmy Johnson's system. How would Barry have done in a system that demanded discipline and simplicity over creativity and risk-taking?

Emmitt basically ran two plays - run left through the line or run right through the line. He followed the blocking scheme and if the play was busted, he didn't do anything risky. Exactly what Jimmy Johnson wanted. I don't think Jimmy would have stood for all of Barry's negative yardage plays that he brought upon himself. Then again, he'd probably be pleased with him busting a 90 yard run from of a dead play. Either way, I doubt Jimmy's coaching style would have meshed with Barry's running style.

Emmitt would have done well anywhere, but he obviously was in the perfect situation for his abilities. Barry wasn't in the perfect situation, but I doubt Dallas would have been the perfect situation for him. I think it's really unfair to say Barry would have done better in Emmitt's situation, or that Emmitt wouldn't have done as well in Barry's.

I'm not saying that Barry would have necessarily been better than Emmitt with the Cowboys' line and peripheral players, just that he would have put up better numbers than he did in Detroit. Barry was probably the best ever once he got into the secondary and out into space. Having guys like Larry Allen and Nate Newton pulling in front of him definitely would have given him more opportunities to do that.

Would he have helped the Cowboys win more games than Emmitt did? That I will not and cannot say.

[Obstructed_View]

Surprisingly reasoned arguments by the Sanders' faithful. I expeced this to devolve into a shit all over Smith session, as these debates typically do. I think Spurs fans appreciate the value of team success over individual numbers enough to throw just a little respect Emmitt's way. Nicely done.

[Findog]

calling Barry overrated is just flat out stupid. if you question his leadership & dedication, maybe you've got a point. but there was nothing overrated about what Barry did on the field.

Barry wasn't overrated, and Emmitt ran behind a better line, but all of that aside...

Emmitt always showed up. Put 8 men in the box, make it as hard for him as possible, the defense still had to account for him and he'd give you at least 80 yards.

How many times would Barry end up with less than 30 yards from scrimmage? It just seems like here and there he'd get shut down or just not show up. You really can't say that about Emmitt.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

How many times would Barry end up with less than 30 yards from scrimmage? It just seems like here and there he'd get shut down or just not show up. You really can't say that about Emmitt.


Barry had 4 games, including the famed GB playoff game, where he totaled 30 yards or fewer from scrimmage.

Emmitt had 12 such games as a Cowboy.

[Findog]

Barry had 4 games, including the famed GB playoff game, where he totaled 30 yards or fewer from scrimmage.

Emmitt had 12 such games as a Cowboy.

Emmitt also hung around way past his prime. Barry had the good sense to go out on top.

[kskonn]

Eh let's not get ahead of ourselves. Yes, Emmitt played with a great offensive line, but don't take anything away from Emmitt. His ability to see plays unfold before they happened, along with his patience to wait for the hole to open, then his timing to hit the hole at the perfect time, his discipline to follow his blockers, they all played a huge part in his success.

I don't know if Barry had that same discipline and vision. Granted, I watched Emmitt 16+ games a year, and Barry maybe three or four games a year. I just don't like it when people attribute all of Emmitt's success to his line, as if any asshole could run for 1500 yards with that line. We all saw how shitty the Cowboys played when Derrick Lassic or Sherman Williams had to sub in for Emmitt. Emmitt had superb discipline, vision, and intelligence on the field, perhaps more than any other back ever.


I absolutely agree, I was not tying to Bring emmitt into the conversation, I was just using the Cowboys offensive line since it happened to be very very good. I think a lot of people would have a hard time running behind that O-line, you had to be patient and trust that the whole would open up, emmitt was very very good at this, the other guys that you mentioned would press to much and not give the line time to do their work. Also when it comes to Emmitt he did not have a great line for a lot of the 1000+ seasons.

Regardless I think if Barry would have had a line that good he would have been in a better situation, he would not of had to dance to get out out the backfield he would have been dancing to get pass the linebackers or the safety, would of had a lot more positive yardage.

[johnsmith]

Surprisingly reasoned arguments by the Sanders' faithful. I expeced this to devolve into a shit all over Smith session, as these debates typically do. I think Spurs fans appreciate the value of team success over individual numbers enough to throw just a little respect Emmitt's way. Nicely done.


STFU bitch. Take your pessimistic know nothing ass right the fuck out of this forum. Why would anyone shit on Emmitt and what the fuck does it have to do with being a Spurs fan?

I fucking hate the Spurs and I wouldn't dare shit on the all time rushing yards leader. I fucking hate these philisophical bull shit posts that people put in here.

You're the same ass clown that wishes a celebrity a happy birthday in the club forum.

[Obstructed_View]

STFU bitch. Take your pessimistic know nothing ass right the fuck out of this forum. Why would anyone shit on Emmitt and what the fuck does it have to do with being a Spurs fan?

I fucking hate the Spurs and I wouldn't dare shit on the all time rushing yards leader. I fucking hate these philisophical bull shit posts that people put in here.

You're the same ass clown that wishes a celebrity a happy birthday in the club forum.
Um. What? It doesn't surprise me that you went to the trouble to post in this thread and the above is all you could muster.

Just about any Barry Sanders discussion inevitably becomes an attempt by some Lions fans to discredit Emmitt's numbers due to his superior team. Spurs fans, at least around here, appreciate the value of team success more than some others.

Don't like my posts? Click the X.

I've posted maybe three times ever in the club forum. You must be thinking of someone else. Wake me if you bring anything of value to the discussion.

[monosylab1k]

STFU bitch. Take your pessimistic know nothing ass right the fuck out of this forum. Why would anyone shit on Emmitt and what the fuck does it have to do with being a Spurs fan?

I fucking hate the Spurs and I wouldn't dare shit on the all time rushing yards leader. I fucking hate these philisophical bull shit posts that people put in here.

You're the same ass clown that wishes a celebrity a happy birthday in the club forum.
LMAO johnsmith what the fuck is irritating your vagina?

must be pissed that jay cutler is your QB. :lmao JAY CUTLER

[midgetonadonkey]

I hate the Cowboys. Always have and always will, but I will say this....

Emmitt is one of the greatest RBs in history. Despite what line he had, what other weapons were around him, etc. He was just fucking amazing at the position. But the things Barry could do were just fucking incredible. I think they are both equally as great. Both in the top 5 RBs in history.

[midgetonadonkey]

Oh yeah...

Fuck the Cowboys!!

[mikejones99]

Barry is the only football they had in hell for about 30 years

[DarkReign]

Barry is the only football they had in hell for about 30 years

Took MJ99 1,604 posts to finally post something true.

Slow progress, but progress nonetheless.

[Thomas82]

no semblance of an offensive line? If i remember correctly, lomas brown made 6 consecutive pro bowl appearances from 90-95 as well as kevin glover making the pro bowl 3 consecutive times from 95-97 all while playing for the detroit lions.


As for the "or a single threat on offense except your own two legs and your field vision." comment, you might want to check herman moore's stats and then come back and tell me that sanders was the only threat on that offense. Hell even scott mitchell had a season where he threw for 32 td's and ran for 4 more while playing in detroit.

+1

[IronMexican]

LMAO johnsmith what the fuck is irritating your vagina?

must be pissed that jay cutler is your QB. :lmao JAY CUTLER

I bet he's frustrated Cutler isn't his QB now.

[Thomas82]

I bet he's frustrated Cutler isn't his QB now.

I just know the Bears gave up too much for him.

[samikeyp]

there is no question that emmitt played in a better organization and was surrounded by better talent. But it's pure conjecture to say sanders would have done better as a cowboy during the 90s. The signs point to yes, but we'll never know because it never happened.

Both deserve to be mentioned in the conversation of all-time greats. No need to knock one to prop up the other.

+1

[Thomas82]

I'm putting together a long, and I do mean LONG, debate about both running backs that I will post on here as soon as I'm finished. I have been working on it for about 3 weeks. It took that long, mainly because of the research that I had to do to point out the common misconceptions between the two. I'll have it on here sometime today.

[MiamiHeat]

Sanders' postseason performance supports the notion that he was a product of the cozy, climate-controlled Silverdome. Nice carpet for easy, stop-on-a-dime maneuvering. Seventy-two degrees. Detroit faithful keeping the defensive line off balance with high decibel support.

What a moron.

What about Barry's college records? Still the all-time rusher

[MiamiHeat]

oh, and about Emmit Smith

I saw many plays, replays, and documentaries about the Cowboys during his era

and John madden said it best :

"Look at those holes that the Cowboys linemen made for Emmit on this play - that's not a hole, that's a highway!"


Barry had to work hard.

[Thomas82]

What a moron.

What about Barry's college records? Still the all-time rusher


Yeah, he is the all-time rusher for a single season. Ron Dayne has the most yards for a college career. There is no telling how many more yards Barry would have had if he didn't back up Thurman Thomas in college.

[MiamiHeat]

there is no telling what Barry would have gotten if he played for the Cowboys instead of the shitty Lions

the LIONS SUCKED. Barry WAS the Lions. Defenses would stack the line and wait for Barry.

The reason Barry lost yardage, is because HE HAD NO CHOICE. The line sucked so bad, many times you see Barry already about to be tackled as soon as he got the handoff from the QB. So Barry could either get tackled, or gamble and be BARRY SANDERS and try to break free. It worked for 15,000+ yards.

Barry would NEVER had gained so many yards if he had not run his style. His biggest plays and highlights, a big bulk of his touchdowns are a product of BARRY SANDERS talent and not the offensive line. They sucked. Many times in the highlights, you see the O-line crumble and Barry left to juke and run around BEHIND the line of scrimmage just to even get free, before he breaks and pops a 60 yd td run.


(I know Barry retired at 31 years old just before passing Walter Payton and that Emmitt took the record eventually, but Emmitt can suck my cock. Emmitt played for a LOT LONGER than Barry did. Barry is the all-time leading rusher IMO)

[MiamiHeat]

I used to love Emmitt, but never more than Barry

as I have gotten older, my respect for Barry has grown more and more.

oh, and the Lions O-line benefited from Barry's running style. They got credit for the many yards and TD runs Barry got for himself while they were on their ass getting beat. Some of them even made it to the pro-bowl. lawl

kvNdTSWob84

[Obstructed_View]

I always hate this debate because it usually requires that the Sanders fans trash Emmitt Smith. You can't argue with what he accomplished, and everything else is ifs and buts. I just hope the Lions can get good someday so their fans can stop living in the fucking past.

[Thomas82]

there is no telling what Barry would have gotten if he played for the Cowboys instead of the shitty Lions

the LIONS SUCKED. Barry WAS the Lions. Defenses would stack the line and wait for Barry.

The reason Barry lost yardage, is because HE HAD NO CHOICE. The line sucked so bad, many times you see Barry already about to be tackled as soon as he got the handoff from the QB. So Barry could either get tackled, or gamble and be BARRY SANDERS and try to break free. It worked for 15,000+ yards.

Barry would NEVER had gained so many yards if he had not run his style. His biggest plays and highlights, a big bulk of his touchdowns are a product of BARRY SANDERS talent and not the offensive line. They sucked. Many times in the highlights, you see the O-line crumble and Barry left to juke and run around BEHIND the line of scrimmage just to even get free, before he breaks and pops a 60 yd td run.


(I know Barry retired at 31 years old just before passing Walter Payton and that Emmitt took the record eventually, but Emmitt can suck my cock. Emmitt played for a LOT LONGER than Barry did. Barry is the all-time leading rusher IMO)

Bruh, check out this thread right here, and tell me if you still feel the same way. Sorry it's so long, but I covered every aspect of this debate that I possibly could.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126143

[Thomas82]

I always hate this debate because it usually requires that the Sanders fans trash Emmitt Smith. You can't argue with what he accomplished, and everything else is ifs and buts. I just hope the Lions can get good someday so their fans can stop living in the fucking past.

That's what made me post my new thread. Check it out.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126143

[samikeyp]

I always hate this debate because it usually requires that the Sanders fans trash Emmitt Smith. You can't argue with what he accomplished, and everything else is ifs and buts. I just hope the Lions can get good someday so their fans can stop living in the fucking past.

+1

Plus there can not be a objective view because of too many variables. Most Detroit fans will vote Barry, most Dallas fans will vote Emmitt, most Chicago fans will choose Payton, most Browns fans will choose Jim Brown. All of them will do so solely because of their allegiance to their team. The haters of each will vote against a player solely because of their dislike for that player team.

IMO, debates like this are pointless because nothing can be accomplished.

[jack sommerset]

I saw Sanders run once live at Cowboy Stadium on a Monday Night Football when the Lions wore the throw back jerseys and let me say this...... That mother fucker was AWESOME to see. Best player I have ever seen in my life run a ball. He was actaully worth the money to see live. That guy did some crazy shit you couldn't see on TV and believe me I rather watch a football game on TV. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[samikeyp]

I saw that game and he was impressive.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I saw Sanders run once live at Cowboy Stadium on a Monday Night Football when the Lions wore the throw back jerseys and let me say this...... That mother fucker was AWESOME to see. Best player I have ever seen in my life run a ball. He was actaully worth the money to see live. That guy did some crazy shit you couldn't see on TV and believe me I rather watch a football game on TV. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was a sophomore in college and we all had our dads up to our apartment that night as well as the regular college randoms for an impromptu party. Went through a few kegs, many wings and one two many bongs. IIRC Smith had a good game as well. Mitchell, not so much.

Why did this thread get bumped? I see it spawned another thread that's disguised as a comparison.

[samikeyp]

Why did this thread get bumped? I see it spawned another thread that's disguised as a comparison.


Because Thomas82 was bored. :lol

[Strike]

Can you imagine what his stats had been if he had the Cowboys offensive line of the early nineties? He possibly could have averaged 6-7 yards per carry.

+1

Swap Emmitt Smith and Barry Sanders and Barry holds nearly every rushing record in the books in my opinion with a few rings on his fingers. I'm not taking anything away from Emmitt Smith. The guy was greatness personified. But Barry Sanders was always the first and sometimes the only focus for opposing defenders. Defending Dallas meant defending Smith, Aikman, Irvin, Harper and Moose. Emmitt was one great piece to a great group of players on the Cowboys' offense. Not to mention Barry probably wouldn't have retired so young had he been with a more successful franchise.

And yes, part of it is my bias as a Lions fan, I'll admit it.

[Obstructed_View]

+1

Plus there can not be a objective view because of too many variables. Most Detroit fans will vote Barry, most Dallas fans will vote Emmitt, most Chicago fans will choose Payton, most Browns fans will choose Jim Brown. All of them will do so solely because of their allegiance to their team. The haters of each will vote against a player solely because of their dislike for that player team.

IMO, debates like this are pointless because nothing can be accomplished.

I agree for the most part, but as a lifelong Cowboys fan, I have no problem accepting that Brown is far and away number one, and Sweetness is far and away number two. Nobody has to try to discredit anything anyone else did in order to point out their greatness. Walter played on some terrible teams too.

[samikeyp]

I agree for the most part, but as a lifelong Cowboys fan, I have no problem accepting that Brown is far and away number one, and Sweetness is far and away number two. Nobody has to try to discredit anything anyone else did in order to point out their greatness. Walter played on some terrible teams too.

As one as well, I agree with your rankings. I just know that homerism and haterism run rampant through these debates.

[Thomas82]

Because Thomas82 was bored. :lol

Whatever man!!

[MiamiHeat]

Barry retired at 31. He played only 10 seasons in the NFL. 10 Pro Bowl selections.

Emmitt played 15 seasons. Emmitt only 8 Pro Bowls in 15 years. Barry was 10 for 10.

Emmitt played -5- more seasons than Barry. EVEN WITH BARRY'S NEGATIVE YARDAGE. EVEN WITH THE LIONS O-LINE COMPARED TO THE COWBOYS O-LINE.

This is not even a debate. Barry is the best back of all time.

Emmitt's "All time leading rusher" title is for show only. We all know Barry is the real title holder.

[samikeyp]

Barry retired at 31. He played only 10 seasons in the NFL. 10 Pro Bowl selections.

Emmitt played 15 seasons. Emmitt only 8 Pro Bowls in 15 years. Barry was 10 for 10.

Emmitt played -5- more seasons than Barry. EVEN WITH BARRY'S NEGATIVE YARDAGE. EVEN WITH THE LIONS O-LINE COMPARED TO THE COWBOYS O-LINE.

This is not even a debate. Barry is the best back of all time.

Emmitt's "All time leading rusher" title is for show only. We all know Barry is the real title holder.

That is your opinion and therefore not a fact as you are implying. Actually he is not the real title holder because he doesn't have as many yards. Just because you don't like the current title holder doesn't give you any power to change a fact. The only fact in this whole debate is that Emmitt has more yards than anyone else so that makes him the all-time leading rusher. Does that alone make him better? No. If Barry plays longer and stays healthy does he set the record? I believe he does.

[samikeyp]

Whatever man!!

Relax junior...I was having fun. Hence the :lol

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Barry retired at 31. He played only 10 seasons in the NFL. 10 Pro Bowl selections.

Emmitt played 15 seasons. Emmitt only 8 Pro Bowls in 15 years. Barry was 10 for 10.

Emmitt played -5- more seasons than Barry. EVEN WITH BARRY'S NEGATIVE YARDAGE. EVEN WITH THE LIONS O-LINE COMPARED TO THE COWBOYS O-LINE.

This is not even a debate. Barry is the best back of all time.

Emmitt's "All time leading rusher" title is for show only. We all know Barry is the real title holder.


Uh, that's not exactly objective. If you stack up Smith's best 10 years against Sanders' career, then Barry has the edge in most notable categories except TDs and trophies. It just happens that those two carry enough weight to even the discrepancies in the other numbers out.

As for the short yardage/TD angle, Barry wasn't taken out because he performed his job poorly rather Fontes took him out to preserve him. Barry had no problem finding the end zone from short yardage situations early on in his career. If you look at the stats, you can clearly tell when the change was made.

Just call it a push and be done with it.

Stafford >>> Romo

[samikeyp]

Uh, that's not exactly objective. If you stack up Smith's best 10 years against Sanders' career, then Barry has the edge in most notable categories except TDs and trophies. It just happens that those two carry enough weight to even the discrepancies in the other numbers out.

As for the short yardage/TD angle, Barry wasn't taken out because he performed his job poorly rather Fontes took him out to preserve him. Barry had no problem finding the end zone from short yardage situations early on in his career. If you look at the stats, you can clearly tell when the change was made.

Just call it a push and be done with it.

:toast

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Kevin Smith >>> Felix Jones?

[manufan10]

Stafford >>> Romo

:lol

Cowboys Cheerleaders (playing football) >>>>>>> Detroit Lions football team

:toast

:lol

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

:lol

Cowboys Cheerleaders (playing football) >>>>>>> Cowboys (playing football) >>>>>>> Detroit Lions football team



Close.

[samikeyp]

Kevin Smith >>> Felix Jones?

I think it would only be fair to give Felix a full season first. I will say though Kevin Smith is the real deal.

[manufan10]

Close.

:lol

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I was just bullshitting with those comparisons.

The only comparison between the two teams in the Lions favor is this one:

Calvin Johnson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roy E. Williams

[manufan10]

Kitna >>>>>>>>> Stafford

[samikeyp]

I was just bullshitting with those comparisons.

The only comparison between the two teams in the Lions favor is this one:

Calvin Johnson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roy E. Williams

You are wrong about the Johnson/Williams comparison.










You need to add a few more >>>>'s. :)

[samikeyp]

Kitna >>>>>>>>> Stafford

Right now..everyone>>>>>Stafford. The kid hasn't thrown an NFL pass yet. Its way too early for that.

[manufan10]

Right now..everyone>>>>>Stafford. The kid hasn't thrown an NFL pass yet. Its way too early for that.

Agreed, just messing around.

Oh and:

Quincy Carter >>>>> Detroit Lion

:wow :lol

[MiamiHeat]

What I am saying is, If Barry didn't retire, he would have set the record too high for Emmitt to catch.

If Barry also played 15 seasons, we're talking about 21,000+ yards.

To me, in my mind, Barry is the all-time leading rusher.

As for championships, that's not an individual accomplishment. Emmitt was on the Cowboys, Barry was on the shitty Lions. So throw those comparisons out the window.

As for TD's, more playoff games played. Barry's Lions sucked. Emmitt was going to the Super Bowls. More games played = more opportunities.

Secondly, Cowboys offense actually was amazing. Detroit's sucked ass. Their QB's were nobodies. Herman Moore? That's it? A high powered Cowboys offense gets you down the field a lot more than a shitty Detroit Lions offense does. Better offense = more opportunities to score TD's.

Really, it's not even a debate. With the huge difference between the Cowboys and the Lions, and comparing the stats between the two players, it's amazing that Barry did what he did.

Barry really is the best back ever. It's a disgrace that he played for the Lions

[manufan10]

What I am saying is, If Barry didn't retire, he would have set the record too high for Emmitt to catch.

If Barry also played 15 seasons, we're talking about 21,000+ yards.

To me, in my mind, Barry is the all-time leading rusher.

This is not accurate. How do we know what Barry would have produced if he continued to play? The Lions got worse as a team, Barry was getting older. How do we know if he would have hit a wall or not? We don't. It's a lot of what if's. Emmitt IS the career rushing leader. You may think that "Barry is the all-time leading rusher," however the history books would suggest otherwise. I'm not debating that Barry is one of the best NFL rushers, because he is. However, to speculate that if he had continued playing he would have set the bar to high is crazy. We don't even know if Barry could continue to play at the extreme level he played at.

[MiamiHeat]

emmitt would not have been the same player had he played on the Lions.

do the research. go watch replays of the Cowboys O-Line.

John Madden said it best himself :

"Those aren't holes, those are highways" when looking at the space that the Cowboys O-Line created for Emmitt to run in.

[monosylab1k]

What I am saying is, If Barry didn't retire, he would have set the record too high for Emmitt to catch.

Unless he hyothetically blew out both his knees in week 1 of the first season if his theoretical non-retiring that you're hypothesizing about.

You say he would have set the record too high, I say he would have suffered a career ending injury. Neither hypothesis can be proven. So how about we go by what really did happen, mkay?

[MiamiHeat]

You're a Cowboys fan.

[Obstructed_View]

You're a Cowboys fan.

You're one of the dumbasses I was referring to earlier.

[MiamiHeat]

Cry me a river. Barry was a lot better than Emmitt. Look at the line he played for, give me a break.

Look at their college careers. Barry ran behind Thurman fucking Thomas and still ended up the all-time leading college rusher.


Everyone knows Barry was going to shatter Payton's record

[monosylab1k]

You're a Cowboys fan.

Not even close.

[IronMexican]

mono's a closet Cowboy fan.

[monosylab1k]

Cry me a river. Barry was a lot better than Emmitt. Look at the line he played for, give me a break.

No doubt Emmitt had a better line, but part of the reason the line looked so good is because Emmitt had the vision to see holes before they opened up, and to have the patience to wait for them.

Barry had neither the discipline or the vision to play in Jimmy Johnson's system. He took lots of risks with the football, which would have been a huge problem. And sorry, but part of the reason the Lions O-line seemed so bad is BECAUSE OF BARRY. His wildass, "do what I want" style is what accounted for all the negative yardage plays. He took so many risks that put his team in 2nd & long and 3rd & long situations, which all teams have trouble converting, even the 90's Cowboys. So don't give me this bullshit about how Barry could have done better with a good line. He never gave his line a chance to block for him in the first place.

Physically, Barry was gifted in ways Emmitt didn't come close to. Barry could do things with the ball that no running back ever could, or possibly ever will do. But Emmitt had an intuition, feel for the game, and overall football IQ that Barry also didn't come close to matching.

They're equally great, end of story, stop with your fucking stupidity.

[monosylab1k]

mono's a closet Cowboy fan.

As far as an NFC team goes, I'll root for the Cowboys yeah. But they're not my team.

[Ghazi]

Sanders > Smith

and mono please change that "Ghazi is a bitch". Mavs fan disunity is distasteful

[Cry Havoc]

and mono please change that "Ghazi is a bitch". Mavs fan disunity is distasteful

:lmao

[MiamiHeat]

The Lions still fucking suck

They are a disgrace to professional sports. 10 years after barry retired, the Lions are still a pathetic cocksucking franchise.

Did they even win a game this past season? 0-16 right?

Pathetic. They fucking ruined Sanders career and they wouldn't release him either.


In college, the ONLY season Sanders started (because he ran behind Thurman Thomas before), Barry won the Heisman and did the following :

Total: 2,628 (238.9 yds/game), 39 TD's
Wyoming (Bowl Game) 222
Overall season Total: 2,850, 44 TD's


Yeah. that's fucking right. Look, Emmitt is a great player, but don't even try to debate this. Barry was better.

[MiamiHeat]

Look at Barry running in college.

He didn't have to lose any fucking yards. He ran through the holes that were there

q7S8wN_tL5Y


What happened to Barry in Detroit, was the following :

Barry got stuck in a shitty franchise and they couldn't block. So Barry just took it upon himself to make something out of nothing, and it worked. Yeah, he lost 1000 yards for his career, but he gained over 15,000 yards in only 10 seasons, faster than any back in NFL history. and he did it with a shitty team.

Barry with the Lions O-Line would have had 20,000 yards or more if he didn't retire at 31.

If you don't believe that, you're crazy. He already had 15,000+ with only 10 seasons played.

[Gervin44Silas13]

BARRY SANDERS IS THE BIGGEST QUITTER IN FOOTBALL!!!!

HE COULDN'T HACK TO BE ON A LIONS TEAM THAT SUCKED SO HE TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT! BARRY HAD NO HEART!

>>>>>what a quitter and a sorrid RB to leave his team!

at least Emmitt Stuck around when the Cowboys sucked

[monosylab1k]

Barry with the Lions O-Line would have had 20,000 yards or more if he didn't retire at 31.

No, he would have blown out both his knees in the 1st quarter of the 1st game of his unretirement. If you don't believe that you're crazy.

[manufan10]

Barry with the Lions O-Line would have had 20,000 yards or more if he didn't retire at 31.

If you don't believe that, you're crazy. He already had 15,000+ with only 10 seasons played.

There's no way to prove that. Like monos said:


You say he would have set the record too high, I say he would have suffered a career ending injury. Neither hypothesis can be proven. So how about we go by what really did happen, mkay?

[Thomas82]

Cry me a river. Barry was a lot better than Emmitt. Look at the line he played for, give me a break.

Look at their college careers. Barry ran behind Thurman fucking Thomas and still ended up the all-time leading college rusher.



I already told you that Barry IS NOT college football's all-time leading rusher. He has the record for MOST YARDS IN A SEASON, not the all-time rushing record. Ron Dayne has that record.



There's no way to prove that. Like monos said:

That's what I'm saying. It's one thing to have your opinion based on stats, but to have your opinion based on a hypothetical that can NEVER be proven is idiotic.

[IronMexican]

As far as an NFC team goes, I'll root for the Cowboys yeah. But they're not my team.

I thought you despised the Cowboys? Pats and Cowboys? Pretty gay.

[monosylab1k]

I thought you despised the Cowboys? Pats and Cowboys? Pretty gay.

lol, raiders

[Thomas82]

No doubt Emmitt had a better line, but part of the reason the line looked so good is because Emmitt had the vision to see holes before they opened up, and to have the patience to wait for them. Barry had neither the discipline or the vision to play in Jimmy Johnson's system. He took lots of risks with the football, which would have been a huge problem. And sorry, but part of the reason the Lions O-line seemed so bad is BECAUSE OF BARRY. His wildass, "do what I want" style is what accounted for all the negative yardage plays. He took so many risks that put his team in 2nd & long and 3rd & long situations, which all teams have trouble converting, even the 90's Cowboys. So don't give me this bullshit about how Barry could have done better with a good line. He never gave his line a chance to block for him in the first place.

Physically, Barry was gifted in ways Emmitt didn't come close to. Barry could do things with the ball that no running back ever could, or possibly ever will do. But Emmitt had an intuition, feel for the game, and overall football IQ that Barry also didn't come close to matching.

They're equally great, end of story, stop with your fucking stupidity.


The best post in this thread!! Another thing about this "All World" offensive line that Emmitt had, if they were so good? How come nobody had ever heard of them before Emmitt got there? Before he got there they couldn't spell Pro Bowl. Emmitt made the Pro Bowl in his first 2 years in the NFL without any of his linemen making it.

In 1991 when Emmitt led the league in rushing, none of his linemen made the Pro Bowl. As a matter of fact, they led the NFL in sacks allowed that year. The offensive line that year was made up of a 3rd round pick, an 8th round pick, a 10th round pick, and 2 undrafted free agents. Let me also mention that Emmitt never had a first round pick blocking for him as a Cowboy. Barry had 4, and 3 of them were top 10 picks. I will say that those linemen deserve credit for stepping their games up, but Emmitt was a major factor in the way they are percieved.

[MiamiHeat]

BARRY SANDERS IS THE BIGGEST QUITTER IN FOOTBALL!!!!

HE COULDN'T HACK TO BE ON A LIONS TEAM THAT SUCKED SO HE TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT! BARRY HAD NO HEART!

>>>>>what a quitter and a sorrid RB to leave his team!

at least Emmitt Stuck around when the Cowboys sucked

Emmitt already had championships by then

BARRY NEVER GOT TO WIN ANYTHING.

BIG DIFFERENCE

[Louae]

knocking barry's postseason stats sounds good until you actually remember the games.

that green bay game where he had 13 carries for -1 yards was ridiculous. there were always 2 and sometimes 3 or 4 guys in the backfield before he even got the ball in his hands.

I big reason why was b/c they were in the run-n-shoot offense where they run draw plays.

[Louae]

Can you imagine what his stats had been if he had the Cowboys offensive line of the early nineties? He possibly could have averaged 6-7 yards per carry.

I've always hated this argument b/c E.Smith's strength, balance and vision were so underrated. In my opinion, E.Smith had more to do with the offensive line being All Pros on a yearly basis than the other way around.

There's a reason the running game would come to a halt when Smith was on the sidelines. Now, if you could plug any running back behind that line like the Denver Broncos did and churn out a 1,000 yard rusher as they did in the late 90s, than this argument would have some legs to stand on. Unfortunately for people who stand behind this argument, it doesn't.

It's my belief that Sanders benefited greatly from the run-n-shoot offense. He was a great open field running back and the Run-n-Shoot offense definately allowed him to tap into his greatest strength by spreading the field, getting him into the second level and putting more defensive backs with poorer tackling skills on the field.

While it's obvious that he would've been successful in any offense, but it's not guaranteed that he would've been more successful in a conventional offense than he was in the run-n-shoot offense.

[Louae]

Emmitt already had championships by then

BARRY NEVER GOT TO WIN ANYTHING.

BIG DIFFERENCE

Honestly, I'd think it would be easier to hang them up after you'd have won the championships.

[Louae]

Emmitt would have done well anywhere, but he obviously was in the perfect situation for his abilities. Barry wasn't in the perfect situation, but I doubt Dallas would have been the perfect situation for him. I think it's really unfair to say Barry would have done better in Emmitt's situation, or that Emmitt wouldn't have done as well in Barry's.

Here's the thing that always bothered me. No-one asks how the Lions would've done with E.Smith in that run-n-shoot offense. Think about it. E.Smith was perfect for that offense. He was a great pass blocker which is essential in that offense. He was a very adequate pass catcher and would've been a great release valve for any QB. B.Sanders was not a great blocker or a great pass catcher.

And the thing about E.Smith that everyone overlooks was his ability to slip tackles. He wasn't flashy, but he was strong, had great balance and had great vision.

And chew on this stat, in 1989 (1-15 season) our leading rusher was Paul Palmer who ran for 400 some yards. The following season, E.Smith was our leading rusher as a rookie with a little over 900 yards and we improved to 7-9 that last season. I'll never forget Aikman going down in the Eagle game and having Babe Laughenberg throw our playoff chances down the drain in Atlanta. Who could forget Deion Sanders high stepping through the middle of our offense on his way to a touchdown after Babe gave him a gift.

[samikeyp]

Here's the thing that always bothered me. No-one asks how the Lions would've done with E.Smith in that run-n-shoot offense. Think about it. E.Smith was perfect for that offense. He was a great pass blocker which is essential in that offense. He was a very adequate pass catcher and would've been a great release valve for any QB. B.Sanders was not a great blocker or a great pass catcher.

And the thing about E.Smith that everyone overlooks was his ability to slip tackles. He wasn't flashy, but he was strong, had great balance and had great vision.

And chew on this stat, in 1989 (1-15 season) our leading rusher was Paul Palmer who ran for 400 some yards. The following season, E.Smith was our leading rusher as a rookie with a little over 900 yards and we improved to 7-9 that last season. I'll never forget Aikman going down in the Eagle game and having Babe Laughenberg throw our playoff chances down the drain in Atlanta. Who could forget Deion Sanders high stepping through the middle of our offense on his way to a touchdown after Babe gave him a gift.

Well said. :toast

The thing about this debate that makes it silly is that people feel the need to knock one of the best football players of all time. By that I mean either Barry or Emmitt. Say what you will about either on, they both were two of the best ever and both would be the first to acknowledge the other as such.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

While it's obvious that he would've been successful in any offense, but it's not guaranteed that he would've been more successful in a conventional offense than he was in the run-n-shoot offense.

They only ran the Run-N-Shoot for two/three seasons and Barry's best season (2000 yds in 14 consecutive 100 yd games) came in a conventional Bobby Ross O.

[Obstructed_View]

I always hate this debate because it usually requires that the Sanders fans trash Emmitt Smith.

I just realized the irony of the above statement since it appears in a thread entitled "Barry Sanders - Overrated". :lol

[Thomas82]

I just realized the irony of the above statement since it appears in a thread entitled "Barry Sanders - Overrated". :lol

Sal Palantonio was never too crazy about Barry Sanders.