Harvey: Driving with Bruce — the road detours

[timvp]

Buck Harvey: Driving with Bruce — the road detours
Buck Harvey
San Antonio Express-News

Good for Bruce Bowen. In a business where potential is too often rewarded, Bowen earned the contract extension the Spurs gave him last week.

He's worked for what he has, and what he did to Steve Nash and LeBron James in the playoffs suggests he still has it. Those around San Antonio don't mind, either; he gets out into the community more than the other Spurs combined.

But the extra millions heading his way also signal a franchise detour. When the Spurs signed Bowen past this season, they officially did away with the possibility that they would restock next summer. The Spurs, with this move, have made it clear they will keep driving with this group.

Even with a steep cliff ahead.

There were signs last season Bowen wanted an extension. There were also signs the Spurs were hesitating. When the Spurs slumped in the winter, Bowen was among those who looked his age.

The Spurs then saw their payroll as a godsend. In the summer of 2008 they were to have only three significant contracts on their books, and those three guys were worth keeping. Adding a fourth, a young free agent, gave the Spurs hope.

Then a few things went the Spurs' way. One, they melded while suffering no injuries. Two, the Mavericks melted and simply suffered. Jerry Stackhouse wasn't wrong in his opinion this week; the Mavericks' choke made the Spurs' "road" easier.

Phoenix had to be dealt with, naturally, and there are no guarantees the Mavericks would have beaten the Spurs had they gotten past Golden State. Still, this is also unmistakable: Had the Mavericks remained the team that won the division by nine games, the Spurs would have rethought everything.

Eliminated by the same team for the second consecutive season, wouldn't Gregg Popovich and R.C. Buford have wanted to retool? Wouldn't they have bought out Robert Horry, brought in Luis Scola, traded Brent Barry and seen 2008 as a time to renew?

Also, would they have wanted to extend Bowen past this season?

But that's what winning does. It causes other franchises to copy the champions (hence the rush for Spurs-like veterans in Penny Hardaway, Allan Houston and Grant Hill). And it causes the Spurs to see themselves differently.

Old? They weren't after all. The Spurs instead had something to keep together, to cherish, to wring out until every drop of championship sweat had evaporated.

So they kept Horry, re-signed Matt Bonner and Fab Oberto, then extended Bowen. Next summer the Spurs might have enough room for another $3 million annual salary, but that's about it.

Given who would have been available next summer, maybe the decision makes sense. The Spurs couldn't have afforded a max contract no matter, so they might have been paying for someone whose greatest attraction, unlike Bowen, was potential.

They know what this group can do. Given similar health — and Tony Parker's ascent — would anyone bet against the Spurs in a seven-game series next spring?

Bowen will be in the middle of it. He's been part of the core of the past three championships and now, secure in his position, he will be happier. Who knows? He might even be open to grooming his successor.

As for the cap room the Spurs had created and lost: It was always about payroll flexibility, and it's this flexibility that allowed the Spurs to keep this group intact.

Still, these players are aging together, and that means they will come apart together. This is where the steep-cliff angle comes into play. One day they will be contenders, and in the span of a 24-second clock they will be weighing their lottery possibilities.

And had the Spurs lost last spring? They would have wanted to see if Bowen's decline happened this year. They would have been colder and less prone to sentiment, and they would have left themselves more room.

Here's what changed.

Among other things, Bowen proved his worth against Nash and James.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA101107.01C_Buck_Harvey.en.3372773.html

[timvp]

Apology accepted from those posters who told me The 2008 Plan never existed. If the Spurs wouldn't have been so dominant in their championship run last year, the Spurs would be in the middle of The 2008 Plan right now.

Luckily, the Spurs are now on a new course.

[exstatic]

Luckily, the Spurs are now on a new course.
Yeah, the 2010 plan. Harvey is a tool sometimes. The retool was postponed a whopping 2 years. T,T,&M aren't going off a cliff in 2 years. They just need to put players around them, which they seem to be able to do with regularity. While they won't have caproom next summer, they should have roster spots, the MCE, and the LLE.

The only real cliff is Tim's retirement, and frankly, it won't matter who they have under contract then.

[timvp]

Yeah, the 2010 plan. Harvey is a tool sometimes. The retool was postponed a whopping 2 years. T,T,&M aren't going off a cliff in 2 years. They just need to put players around them, which they seem to be able to do with regularity. While they won't have caproom next summer, they should have roster spots, the MCE, and the LLE.

The only real cliff is Tim's retirement, and frankly, it won't matter who they have under contract then.I'm just glad the Spurs have detoured off the idea of using the summer of 2008 to retool. It was a dumb idea that has never really worked in the Spurs favor.

There's much less risk and a very similar reward going to the route of picking up solid role players here and there like Udoka and Bonner ... instead of clearing the cap and going for the homerun.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Maybe in 3 -5 years time (when Duncan is retired or seriously on the downslope), injuries will befall our star player/s and we will end up with a losing record, get the no. 1 pick in the lottery and pick another superstar in the making.

[polandprzem]

There are always next year plans

:rolleyes

[Holt's Cat]

I'm just glad the Spurs have detoured off the idea of using the summer of 2008 to retool. It was a dumb idea that has never really worked in the Spurs favor.

There's much less risk and a very similar reward going to the route of picking up solid role players here and there like Udoka and Bonner ... instead of clearing the cap and going for the homerun.

...as well as drafting your own. The Spurs must have some kind of confidence in Mahinmi and Splitter.

[1Parker1]

A little sidenote, but I still don't understand why the Spurs re-signed Bonner and are intent on keeping him around....

[1Parker1]

:lol Never mind...just saw this article:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79276

[DR WU]

Yeah, Bruce deserved some cake. I only hope he continues to work on his offense.

[Holt's Cat]

A little sidenote, but I still don't understand why the Spurs re-signed Bonner and are intent on keeping him around....

Because with TD in the post you want a 4 man who can give him some space by drawing an interior defender away from the paint.

[picnroll]

Since the Spurs are pretty much tapped out minus $3 million or so for next few years, maybe they'll use Barry or Beno in a trade near the deadliine this year for a player with a 2-3 year contract that could help them, for example a decent backup PG or long 3.

[Holt's Cat]

One would hope so. But I see the Spurs just letting their contracts expire.

[some_user86]

Since the Spurs are pretty much tapped out minus $3 million or so for next few years, maybe they'll use Barry or Beno in a trade near the deadliine this year for a player with a 2-3 year contract that could help them, for example a decent backup PG or long 3.

What's the point? Barry's contract comes off the books after this season and I thought Beno's does too.

[some_user86]

One would hope so. But I see the Spurs just letting their contracts expire.

You read my mind.

[ChumpDumper]

Depends a little on where the Spurs think the salary cap and luxury tax thresholds might be in the next couple of years.

[Holt's Cat]

As for Bruce, he's certainly earned a thank you type of contract from the Spurs. Also, his defensive ability is still at a high level and I think whatever he's lost due to aging is made up with improved technique or craftiness, as it were. With Udoka coming on board you shouldn't need Bowen to play 30 minutes a night at a high level, but rather around 20. All in all, it's not a bad move to keep what you know works on your team and groom another to ultimately take over that role.

[picnroll]

What's the point? Barry's contract comes off the books after this season and I thought Beno's does too.
Because mid-season they can address a need and improve the chances of a title in '08. Otherwise if they fill the space at the end of the season they haven't added talent for the '08 title run. Beno could get them a player with about a $2 million dollar contract.

[Holt's Cat]

Because mid-season they can address a need and improve the chances of a title in '08. Otherwise if they fill the space at the end of the season they haven't added talent for the '08 title run. Beno could get them a player with about a $2 million dollar contract.

They lost talent for the '08 title run over $ so I'm not sure why it will be any different going forward.

[thispego]

none of you fucking bitches who want barry gone can ever cheer when he hits a three for us this year. I dont want to hear one fucking word from a single one of you. fucking hypocrites.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol Barry has been a true professional in his tenure here and has performed well in many cases. However, his pay is out of balance with his role on the team and in a youth movement would be the most expandable player at this time. If Udoka works out, I would put Finley at the same level of expendability; his deal is smaller but it seems his game is deteriorating more quickly.

[thispego]

If i thought most of these idiots even considered payrolls when wanting a player gone I would not have a problem.

But on the other hand I also think he's been worth every penny. we've won two champinoships in the three years he's been here and his contributions to the first are undeniable, yet are grossly overlooked on this forum. What you say is true Chump, but if we hadn't made the offer we did to Barry in '04 he might have gone somewhere else... or stayed in Seattle because he was adored there.

[whottt]

Apology accepted from those posters who told me The 2008 Plan never existed. If the Spurs wouldn't have been so dominant in their championship run last year, the Spurs would be in the middle of The 2008 Plan right now.

Luckily, the Spurs are now on a new course.



Um...no....the apologizing needs to be done by you and Mr. Bryant.


The Spurs were set up to blow things up this summer as well....if need be.

Which was the point of my thread.

They were never painted into a corner, they were never locked into anything, they always had options...and you and Bryant refused to acknowledge that.


The one sin they commited...which was a sin commited by 90% of the posters on this board...


Was overestimating the value of Scola.




Incidentally...


People underestimate the impact of the Udoka signing and what it gives them flexibility to do....


And one thing we are all guilty of...and perhaps the Spurs as well, overestimating the weaknesses on this team...


It turns out...that long/big SF problem wasn't the huge obstacle we all thought it would be...at least against teams not named the Mavs....

As evidenced by Bruce putting his foot up the ass of the best SF in the league...

How does that tie into Udoka?


We can now stick Bruce on Dirk because we have Udoka to put on the smaller players and Josh.

And one final thing that changed...


Thanks to Nelly? We know exactly how to beat the Mavs now, and we know exactly how to stop Dirk.



In summary...

Spurs FO > Marcus Bryant and timvp

In fact...timvp and MB aren't even at jock strap carrying status for the FO.

[Holt's Cat]

whottt still hasn't kicked his crystal meth habit, I see.

[whottt]

If you guys want to engage in a dialogue about the Spurs FO being idiots when it comes to retiring jersies, I'm all ears...

Other than that...I'll trust the FO over MB and timvp.

[whottt]

:lol Barry has been a true professional in his tenure here and has performed well in many cases. However, his pay is out of balance with his role on the team and in a youth movement would be the most expandable player at this time. If Udoka works out, I would put Finley at the same level of expendability; his deal is smaller but it seems his game is deteriorating more quickly.


It's not Barry's fault he gets paid so much, he took less than market value to come here.


It's also not Barry's fault that pop would rather 5 hustling d playing chokers over 1 non hustling guy who is a legitimate shooter and the most efficient offensive player on the team.


The impact of Barry has never been appreciated by Spurs fans...


The same Spurs fans that can't tell the difference between a non choker and Matt Bonner.

[Holt's Cat]

Barry's applause and exhortations from the bench have been key.

[whottt]

They lost talent for the '08 title run over $ so I'm not sure why it will be any different going forward.


Take that shit here (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/)

[ChumpDumper]

It's not Barry's fault he gets paid so much, he took less than market value to come here.


It's also not Barry's fault that pop would rather 5 hustling d playing chokers over 1 non hustling guy who is a legitimate shooter and the most efficient offensive player on the team.


The impact of Barry has never been appreciated by Spurs fans...


The same Spurs fans that can't tell the difference between a non choker and Matt Bonner.I'll grant you all that, and still say Barry is expendable.

[Holt's Cat]

Take that shit here (http://bbs.clutchfans.net/)


Why would I?

[leemajors]

Barry's applause and exhortations from the bench have been key.
he needs to pick up the mack brown clap.

[whottt]

I'll grant you all that, and still say Barry is expendable.


That remains to be seen...

Hopefully, you're right.


Last years road to the title was easy...thanks to Horry, and Nelly.


Other than that...it wasn't that long ago that our season lived and died based on our shooters and the threat they presented...and it still might in any typical year.


And I hate to tell you guys this...but Bonner isn't the answer there...


I've watched him choke more shots in 3/4ths of a season than Porter, Smitty, Ferry and Hedo in their Spurs careers combined.

[whottt]

I rather AJ take a 3 with the game on the line than Bonner.

[Holt's Cat]

Why are we comparing Barry with Bonner? That's not who he has been competing with for PT.

[whottt]

False...Bonner is on this team because he can shoot the 3 and make Duncan's job easier...he does it at the PF spot which is a trait coveted by the Spurs, but nontheless, his job is to make Duncan's job easier and get bodies off him, just like Barry's.


Finley's done btw...that comparison isn't even close anymore...it wasn't for 90% of last season either.


As for Barry VS Udoka...Udoka will no doubt win that battle whether he hits a 3 all season...or not.

[Holt's Cat]

Ha.

[whottt]

Pussy

[Holt's Cat]

Yes, I like that, unlike yourself.

[whottt]

Go ahead...scratch that itch (http://spurstalk.com/forums/register.php)

[Holt's Cat]

I just might tonight.

[timvp]

Um...no....the apologizing needs to be done by you and Mr. Bryant.


The Spurs were set up to blow things up this summer as well....if need be.

Which was the point of my thread.

They were never painted into a corner, they were never locked into anything, they always had options...and you and Bryant refused to acknowledge that.Blow things up? Signing Udoka is blowing things up?

Where was the Barry opt-out? Where was the letting go of Horry and Bowen? Where was the Cavs winning in 5 because Bowen would get owned by LeBron?

Did anything you say during the last five months of the season actually come true? Anything?



The one sin they commited...which was a sin commited by 90% of the posters on this board...


Was overestimating the value of Scola. That was random. The Spurs overrated his value so they traded him for nothing?

That doesn't make sense.





Incidentally...


People underestimate the impact of the Udoka signing and what it gives them flexibility to do....I don't think you could group timvp with those people since timvp targeted Udoka before the free agent signing period began.

While you were figuring out way for the Spurs to dump Barry, Bowen and Horry, timvp was locating a cheap, under the radar gem that could blossom under Pop.



And one thing we are all guilty of...and perhaps the Spurs as well, overestimating the weaknesses on this team...


It turns out...that long/big SF problem wasn't the huge obstacle we all thought it would be...at least against teams not named the Mavs....
Guess all your whining was fruitless . . .


As evidenced by Bruce putting his foot up the ass of the
best SF in the league...

"Bowen is going to get owned.....flat out owned by LeBron." -- whottt

Nice take you had. Spurs expert for sure :tu


How does that tie into Udoka?


We can now stick Bruce on Dirk because we have Udoka to put on the smaller players and Josh. Welcome to four months ago when I first pointed that out.


And one final thing that changed...


Thanks to Nelly? We know exactly how to beat the Mavs now, and we know exactly how to stop Dirk. But how do the Spurs beat the Cavs? Didn't they beat the Spurs in 5?

:shootme


In summary...

Spurs FO > Marcus Bryant and timvp

In fact...timvp and MB aren't even at jock strap carrying status for the FO.Buck Harvey AKA The Spurs Mouthpiece all but admitted in this article that the Spurs were going to go with The 2008 Plan. You, along with other naive Spurs fans, said there was never such a plan.

Not only did you get owned there, you go owned when you made up all those opt-out clauses that either didn't exist or the Spurs didn't enact. Nice job.

Oh and don't forget the ongoing ownage in which your last ditch hope in proving the Spurs were going to make a major move this summer is pointing to the guy timvp originally pointed out who ended up signing for less money than Jacque Vaughn.

[Bruno]

Apology accepted from those posters who told me The 2008 Plan never existed. If the Spurs wouldn't have been so dominant in their championship run last year, the Spurs would be in the middle of The 2008 Plan right now.


Let's sum up :

Ludden said : "there is a 2008 plan".
I said after that "the 2008 plan is BS. You can't say there is a 2008 plan when you look at facts."
Harvey said one year after : "there is a 2008 plan".


Harvey saying the same thing and with some CBA mistakes than Ludden brings nothing new. You can say "apology accepted" as much as you want but this article doesn't prove that you were right or wrong.

[timvp]

this article doesn't prove that you were right or wrong.


The Spurs then saw their payroll as a godsend. In the summer of 2008 they were to have only three significant contracts on their books, and those three guys were worth keeping. Adding a fourth, a young free agent, gave the Spurs hope.

You think Harvey is smart enough to come up with that on his own?

It's obvious that The 2008 Plan existed at one point. The only way you can believe it never existed is if you believe it was a coincidence that the Spurs were lining up all their contracts to end during the same summer ... and on top of that their media mouthpieces are lying when they talk about what the Spurs were thinking.

The Spurs saved themselves from themselves by winning the championship in a dominating fashion. If they would have lost, the Spurs would be aiming toward the summer of 2008 as the summer where they can rebuild. If you don't want to believe timvp's takes from over a year ago pointing that out, you can read this article and see the same thing.

[Bruno]

You think Harvey is smart enough to come up with that on his own?

He is just saying what Ludden said one year ago.



The only way you can believe it never existed is if you believe it was a coincidence that the Spurs were lining up all their contracts to end during the same summer ...

The same summer where they offered a 4 years contract to Przybilla...
Pop has too said last year, before that Spurs won the championship, that Bonner would be a long term Spurs. So he was ready to re-sign Bonner even if it hurt the "2008 plan".



and on top of that their media mouthpieces are lying when they talk about what the Spurs were thinking.

I think that Spurs lied sometimes to their media mouthpieces.
The 2008 plan has just been created to only give 2 years contract to butler and Elson.

[Holt's Cat]

The plan certainly existed last January or so when the Spurs were circling the porcelain bowl and the front office was wondering how soon they could get rid of Bowen. The potential move to acquire Maggette was put on hold in no small part due to that.

[SenorSpur]

The plan certainly existed last January or so when the Spurs were circling the porcelain bowl and the front office was wondering how soon they could get rid of Bowen. The potential move to acquire Maggette was put on hold in no small part due to that.

Speaking of which, Maggette will be totally free this summer. With Barry coming off the books and Finley's contract up, there will be yet another opening, or maybe two, at the swing spot. Does anybody feel the Spurs should pursue that option again?

[timvp]

He is just saying what Ludden said one year ago.

So Harvey, Ludden and timvp are wrong?


The same summer where they offered a 4 years contract to Przybilla...
Pop has too said last year, before that Spurs won the championship, that Bonner would be a long term Spurs. So he was ready to re-sign Bonner even if it hurt the "2008 plan".Who knows what the real issue was with Przybilla. Perhaps they thought he was good enough to forfeit The 2008 Plan. Perhaps they were doing his agent or the player a favor in helping their raise the market value. The Spurs didn't offer anywhere close to what Przybilla eventually got. So it wasn't like they went all out for him.

And regarding Bonner, Pop said he hoped Bonner would be around for a long time. He said the same type things about Hedo and SJax in the past. Telling a player you want them to be around for a long time is a way to make them play calmer and with less pressure. It's not actual contract negotiations.



I think that Spurs lied sometimes to their media mouthpieces.
The 2008 plan has just been created to only give 2 years contract to butler and Elson.So timvp was wrong and the Spurs lied to their two mouthpieces? Where is another example of the Spurs lying to their mouthpieces?

When the two options are 1) timvp was right, as confirmed by both Ludden and Harvey 2) timvp was wrong, the Spurs lied to their mouthpieces before and after the fact. The Spurs also made sure that their lies perfectly lined up with what timvp was saying for the last two years. On top of that, it was all one big coincidence that all the contracts were expiring in the same year. Not to mention that it was the same summer in which numerous free agents happened to hit the market.

I guess you can believe the jumped web of option number two but doesn't number one seem a whole lot more likely?

[Bruno]

Who knows what the real issue was with Przybilla. Perhaps they thought he was good enough to forfeit The 2008 Plan. Perhaps they were doing his agent or the player a favor in helping their raise the market value. The Spurs didn't offer anywhere close to what Przybilla eventually got. So it wasn't like they went all out for him.

Raising Przybilla market value makes no sense. He didn't need to raise his market value because Blazers offer was the maw allowed (full MLE).
And Przybilla was good enough o break the 2008 plan but not good enough to get a 5 years contract. Very logical.



And regarding Bonner, Pop said he hoped Bonner would be around for a long time. He said the same type things about Hedo and SJax in the past. Telling a player you want them to be around for a long time is a way to make them play calmer and with less pressure. It's not actual contract negotiations.

Spurs tried to re-sign Jax and Hedo destroyed himself during the playoffs. Pop (and PJ) saying that they wanted to keep Bonner likely means that they wanted to keep Bonner.



So timvp was wrong and the Spurs lied to their two mouthpieces? Where is another example of the Spurs lying to their mouthpieces?

Malik Rose trade.



On top of that, it was all one big coincidence that all the contracts were expiring in the same year.


What other players than Elson and Butler have been the length of their contract determined by the 2008 plan ?

[whottt]

Blow things up? Signing Udoka is blowing things up?

No...they won a championship, of course they're not going to blow that up...although he did address a weakness.




Where was the Barry opt-out?
Wasn't one...I was wrong. I also never claimed for certain there was one.




Where was the letting go of Horry and Bowen?

At the time Horry was saying he was retiring, and Bowen ended up with his best playoff run yet...and Horry was pretty influential in that title.


If we hadn't won? If we had been say, bounced by the Mavs? Or worse? There would have been a blow up.



Where was the Cavs winning in 5 because Bowen would get owned by LeBron?


Bruce played the series of his life...and owned LeBron...I was happily wrong about that...I might add, I'm even happier they didn't try to guard LeBron with Finley.





Did anything you say during the last five months of the season actually come true? Anything?

Hmmm...


If Bowen can hold Lebron in the realm of mortals, the Spurs will sweep





That was random. The Spurs overrated his value so they traded him for nothing?

That doesn't make sense.


Hmmm...

They thought they'd be able to get more for him than they eventually did...so did we all, wasn't that hard to understand what I said.




I don't think you could group timvp with those people since timvp targeted Udoka before the free agent signing period began.


hmmm....


Udoka isn't an upgrade




While you were figuring out way for the Spurs to dump Barry, Bowen and Horry, timvp was locating a cheap, under the radar gem that could blossom under Pop.
. .

You were also complaining about the Spurs putting $$ in front of winning the entire time...




"Bowen is going to get owned.....flat out owned by LeBron." -- whottt

Nice take you had. Spurs expert for sure :tu

Gladly I was wrong...







But how do the Spurs beat the Cavs? Didn't they beat the Spurs in 5?

:shootme


Pop stopped trying to use Finley as a PF...just in the nick of time.



Buck Harvey AKA The Spurs Mouthpiece all but admitted in this article that the Spurs were going to go with The 2008 Plan. You, along with other naive Spurs fans, said there was never such a plan.

I said the Spurs had options....they did, hence, now.



Not only did you get owned there, you go owned when you made up all those opt-out clauses that either didn't exist or the Spurs didn't enact. Nice job.

Hmmmm....I never claimed to know for certain Barry had an opt out clause...nontheless, he still could have been part of a blowup, he was and is, a valuable trade asset.


Oh and don't forget the ongoing ownage in which your last ditch hope in proving the Spurs were going to make a major move this summer is pointing to the guy timvp originally pointed out who ended up signing for less money than Jacque Vaughn.



I don't think the summer turned out exactly the way the Spurs wanted...but I do think they did the best with the hand they were dealt....and I think they emphatically proved:

A. They weren't painted into any 2008 plan.
B. They were flexible.


Hence, the owning of
t
i
m
v
p

[timvp]

Raising Przybilla market value makes no sense. He didn't need to raise his market value because Blazers offer was the maw allowed (full MLE).Przybilla could have made even more. For example, in a sign and trade.


And Przybilla was good enough o break the 2008 plan but not good enough to get a 5 years contract. Very logical.Link to the last time the Spurs sign a free agent in which they end up out bidding everyone?


Spurs tried to re-sign Jax and Hedo destroyed himself during the playoffs. Pop (and PJ) saying that they wanted to keep Bonner likely means that they wanted to keep Bonner.Spurs made little effort to keep SJax. Pop also compared Jackie Butler to Moses Malone. You don't think that was a coaching ploy either?


Malik Rose trade.Link to an article stating that the Rose trade was done without any thought to financial implications?


What other players than Elson and Butler have been the length of their contract determined by the 2008 plan ?How about everyone else on the team not named Tim, Manu or Tony?

[timvp]

Wasn't one...I was wrong.


I was happily wrong about that


Gladly I was wrong...


I was wrong about that


Okay...I was wrong



Hence, the owning of
t
i
m
v
p

:rollin

[whottt]

you never admit you're wrong


I guess you'd be wrong about that....among other things.


Many
other
things

[timvp]

I guess you'd be wrong about that....among other things.


Many
other
thingsHey, I didn't say I didn't appreciate your newfound ability to admit to being wrong. That should help you take it to the next level as a poster.

That said, it's quite comical that you are grasping at the Spurs signing Udoka as a way to prove timvp wrong, since Udoka was the player timvp wanted the Spurs to sign when the summer started.

L
O
L

[Bruno]

Przybilla could have made even more. For example, in a sign and trade.

No, Portland hadn't bird rights on him. He get the max possible.



Link to the last time the Spurs sign a free agent in which they end up out bidding everyone?

If Spurs really wanted Przybilla, they would have offered him a 5 years contract like Portland and Detroit.



Spurs made little effort to keep SJax. Pop also compared Jackie Butler to Moses Malone. You don't think that was a coaching ploy either?

Ludden said tons of bad things about Butler very soon in the season.
Bonner said too during the playoffs that Spurs liked him and wanted to re-sign him. He said that his chances to stay were at 80%. I really doubt have said that much to Bonner without the sincere intention to re-sign him.



Link to an article stating that the Rose trade was done without any thought to financial implications?

:wtf
Pop lied by saying that he won't do a trade at the deadline and traded Malik the next day.



How about everyone else on the team not named Tim, Manu or Tony?

There isn't a single player on Spurs roster outside of Elson and Butler for who you can say : "he has signed a X year contract instead of a Y year contract because of the 2008 plan."
Take one by one Spurs players and you will realize that too.

[timvp]

No, Portland hadn't bird rights on him. He get the max possible.

If Spurs really wanted Przybilla, they would have offered him a 5 years contract like Portland and Detroit.The Bulls could have offered Przybilla more. He was supposedly second on their list.

And yeah, that's what I was telling you -- the Spurs didn't really want Przybilla. If they didn't they wouldn't have given him a laughable, low ball offer. That means the The 2008 Plan was in effect.


Ludden said tons of bad things about Butler very soon in the season.
Bonner said too during the playoffs that Spurs liked him and wanted to re-sign him. He said that his chances to stay were at 80%. I really doubt have said that much to Bonner without the sincere intention to re-sign him.If the Spurs were still trying to open up cap room in 2008, they could have given Bonner a one year contract with a balloon payment a la Robert Horry. And that's if the Spurs were being honest.

Once upon a time the Spurs said SJax was coming back and SJax said that he could never play for another coach other than Pop. SJax then went on to him championship clinching shots ... and even that didn't save him from the salary cap monster.



:wtf
Pop lied by saying that he won't do a trade at the deadline and traded Malik the next day.That's what Pop said. But the mouthpieces at the Express-News said that the Spurs would likely still look at offers.


There isn't a single player on Spurs roster outside of Elson and Butler for who you can say : "he has signed a X year contract instead of a Y year contract because of the 2008 plan."
Take one by one Spurs players and you will realize that too.The Spurs offered Horry less years than the Mavs. The Spurs extended Udrih for one year instead of looking to use the same amount of money to sign a real point guard. And you really think Finley, Barry, Oberto and Bowen all had their contract expire at the same time by accident? No planning at all -- just one big coincidence?

[Bruno]

The Bulls could have offered Przybilla more. He was supposedly second on their list.

Spurs offer hasn't given more leverage to Przybilla agent with Chicago because Portland still made a bigger offer.



And yeah, that's what I was telling you -- the Spurs didn't really want Przybilla. If they didn't they wouldn't have given him a laughable, low ball offer. That means the The 2008 Plan was in effect.

They offered the full MLE on 4 years instead of 5 years. It's not a laughable offer. You can make some crazy theories as much as you want but the most likely scenario by far is that they liked him but not enough to offer him 5 years.



If the Spurs were still trying to open up cap room in 2008, they could have given Bonner a one year contract with a balloon payment a la Robert Horry. And that's if the Spurs were being honest.

Not with the luxury tax. Making a one year big offer to Bonner would have cost tons of money to Spurs.




The Spurs offered Horry less years than the Mavs. The Spurs extended Udrih for one year instead of looking to use the same amount of money to sign a real point guard. And you really think Finley, Barry, Oberto and Bowen all had their contract expire at the same time by accident? No planning at all -- just one big coincidence?

Let's see :

04 summer : How can you speak about a 08 plan while Spurs had no expiring contract in 08 and two big contracts (Malik and Rasho) expiring in 09 ? the reason why Barry and Bowen signed 4 years contract is their age.

05 summer : Spurs offerred a 4 years extension to Nazr, screwing the 08 plan.
No FA Euro rookies have signed contracts longer than 3 years, Oberto signing for 3 years is logical. Finley and Horry signing for 3 years is because of their age. Spurs weren't even ready to fully guaranteed Horry's third year.

Beno's 4th year team option was cheap ($1.7M). It was the logical low risk, high reward solution.

There isn't a single player outside of Elson and Butler for who you can see a link between the length of his contract of the 2008 plan.

The existence of the 2008 plan isn't back up by facts.

[Lonestar]

Pardon me if this has been mentioned already, as I don't have time to read the whole thread but one point I think Buck Harvey ignored in this article is the acquisition of the Austin Toros. I believe that this is the training ground that the Spurs are using to train young players and develop future talent. As long as they have Tim, Tony and Manu they can work with role players. I think the Toros are a way for them to groom these players while avoiding long term, high priced mistakes. Maybe the retooling plan wasn't scrapped but changed. Sounds to me like CIA Pop, Special Agent Buford and Director of Security Holt tweaking a winner instead of trying to overhaul it.