Suns' Hill Looking Good

[Stargazer]

I didn't see or hear the game, but it sounds like Grant Hill is fitting in very nicely. I think it's gonna be a great year!

[exstatic]

Yeah, it'll be a great year for Grant.........up until the ASG when a leg or a foot will fall off.

[Findog]

D'Antoni doesn't understand the concept of limiting his main guys' minutes during the Regular. Grant Hill would be a fantastic addition for 20-25 mpg. The 30-35 mpg he'll get under D'Antoni? Not so much.

[Reggie Miller]

This is sort of off-topic, but I wonder about it every time this subject is raised.

How in the @#$%! can you coach a run 'n' gun team and not have a balanced system of substitutions that uses most of your bench? It makes zero sense. Wouldn't you want to keep fresh legs in there at all times? In other words, D'Antoni's methods would be stupid with a conventional team, but he is completely braindead for doing it with this particular team.

Ron Mexico mentioned the shorter European basketball schedules in another thread, and that is the only rational answer I can find. Still, you would think the dumbass would realize that it takes 100+ games to win a championship in the NBA. (Sweeping every series is still 98 games.)

[yourcheatinheart]

start suns envy here....

[Hemotivo]

Sean Marks
13 pts 9 reb
:tu

[da_suns_fan__]

The coaching staff has been giddy about him for a couple months now.

He might be able to diminish the production drop off when Nash rests.

His ball handling skills are similar to Joe Johnson, but he's not nearly the three point shooter. I saw him shoot a few in the scrimmage and it was UGLY. He hit a couple, but his form was not pretty.

[loveforthegame]

I watched the game and Hill looked real good out there. I was impressed but if D'Antoni doesn't watch his minutes he'll be done before the playoffs.

The guy I was most impressed with was Marcus Banks. He looked more comfortable, was hitting the shots he was supposed to, and active on defense. Of course I'll wait and see if he can do this during the regular season.

Alando Tucker looks like he'll get lost in the mix. Only played in the 4th quarter but other than a couple nice passes wasn't much a factor.

[da_suns_fan__]

Good info "loveforthegame".

Im going to the Suns/Hornets game on Saturday. I want to see Hill's three point shot up close.

[Findog]

start suns envy here....

I wish my team had Mike D'Antoni and Steve Nash so the Mavericks could get credit for saving basketball. Oh wait, wrong Suns troll...

[da_suns_fan__]

I wish my team had Mike D'Antoni and Steve Nash so the Mavericks could get credit for saving basketball. Oh wait, wrong Suns troll...

Suns are doing their part. Told ya yesterday you wouldn't see any of that eighty-something to sixty-something garbage.

[BeerIsGood!]

What are the big man rotations for the Suns? Who do they have this season at the 4 and 5 besides Stoudemire?

[da_suns_fan__]

What are the big man rotations for the Suns? Who do they have this season at the 4 and 5 besides Stoudemire?


Skinner and Diaw.

So.....nobody.

[monosylab1k]

Suns are doing their part. Told ya yesterday you wouldn't see any of that eighty-something to sixty-something garbage.
thank god they have high scoring preseason games, because that's what the people want to see.

[BeerIsGood!]

Skinner and Diaw.

So.....nobody.


So they're going to trot out lineups with Skinner, Diaw, Stoudemire, and possibly Marks as their only big man options? Looks like they're going small ball or bust this season. I thought they were much more dangerous last year when they could trot Thomas out to give a different look and matchup.

[da_suns_fan__]

So they're going to trot out lineups with Skinner, Diaw, Stoudemire, and possibly Marks as their only big man options? Looks like they're going small ball or bust this season. I thought they were much more dangerous last year when they could trot Thomas out to give a different look and matchup.


Its never an issue until they play San Antonio.

The Suns thumped the Mavericks in April last year and KT didn't even play (coaches decision).

D'Antoni believes that putting KT in didn't stop Duncan at all and also slowed the Suns down so it was a double negative.

Maybe he's right. Maybe a double team with Marion (if Stoudemire or Diaw was guarding him) would be more effective.

[BeerIsGood!]

Its never an issue until they play San Antonio.

The Suns thumped the Mavericks in April last year and KT didn't even play (coaches decision).

D'Antoni believes that putting KT in didn't stop Duncan at all and also slowed the Suns down so it was a double negative.

Maybe he's right. Maybe a double team with Marion (if Stoudemire or Diaw was guarding him) would be more effective.


I think it'll be effective during the regular season when they see a steady dose of inferior teams mixed in with the occasional elite team (just like every other elite team), but it's damn risky IMO. Stoudemire's already having another knee surgery, and if by misfortune he goes down that front court is going to be less than horrible. I think even the Mavs, with their own lack of front court greatness, could find a way to exploit the paint to their advantage. Against the Mavs it would all pretty much come down to how effective the guards, especially PGs are in controlling tempo and taking care of the ball. Against the Spurs I really don't see a way that the Suns can match up for a 7 game series. Sure they can double Duncan and possibly take the ball out of his hands at times, but Parker, Ginobili, and the other guards/wings are just too good at ball control and tempo control to run into the ground.

[BeerIsGood!]

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds this season, but it seems like D'Antoni and the FO are going all out in the small ball run and gun sets and are going to live and die by it. I know that's D'Antoni's preferred style and I give him credit for going all in with it, but I just don't think it will work in the playoffs unless they somehow avoid the Spurs and possibly the Mavs, Rockets, and even Jazz.

[da_suns_fan__]

I think it'll be effective during the regular season when they see a steady dose of inferior teams mixed in with the occasional elite team (just like every other elite team), but it's damn risky IMO. Stoudemire's already having another knee surgery, and if by misfortune he goes down that front court is going to be less than horrible. I think even the Mavs, with their own lack of front court greatness, could find a way to exploit the paint to their advantage. Against the Mavs it would all pretty much come down to how effective the guards, especially PGs are in controlling tempo and taking care of the ball. Against the Spurs I really don't see a way that the Suns can match up for a 7 game series. Sure they can double Duncan and possibly take the ball out of his hands at times, but Parker, Ginobili, and the other guards/wings are just too good at ball control and tempo control to run into the ground.

Well, If Duncan or Nowitski goes down, you could say the same for San Antonio or Dallas. Thats the thing, you have to hope your team stays healthy to even have a chance.

But I don't think a front court of Marion, Diaw, Skinner and Marks would be "less than horrible".

[Hemotivo]

I think it'll be effective during the regular season when they see a steady dose of inferior teams mixed in with the occasional elite team (just like every other elite team), but it's damn risky IMO. Stoudemire's already having another knee surgery, and if by misfortune he goes down that front court is going to be less than horrible.
Could you imagine the suns against a team like Houston with Yao and Scola in the paint?

[da_suns_fan__]

It will be interesting to see how it unfolds this season, but it seems like D'Antoni and the FO are going all out in the small ball run and gun sets and are going to live and die by it. I know that's D'Antoni's preferred style and I give him credit for going all in with it, but I just don't think it will work in the playoffs unless they somehow avoid the Spurs and possibly the Mavs, Rockets, and even Jazz.


The Suns OWN the Rockets and would beat the Jazz in five. Everyone loves to point out how the Jazz beat the Suns three times but two of those were during their terrible start (one where Nash didn't even play) and the Suns DESTROYED the Jazz in Utah in their final meeting.

I don't worry about the Mavs. The Suns and Nash have a mental edge over the Mavs and Dirk.

[da_suns_fan__]

Could you imagine the suns against a team like Houston with Yao and Scola in the paint?


Are you serious?

Have you EVER seen these two teams play? :lol

Its usually not even close.

[BeerIsGood!]

Could you imagine the suns against a team like Houston with Yao and Scola in the paint?

That's the thing, I don't think the Rockets have the quality guards to control the tempo and keep the Suns in check. I think the Suns could possibly run Yao into 2nd half ineffectiveness and could beat the Rockets with that small lineup. The Spurs on the other hand have a world class PG and SG that have shown an ability to control tempo and slow the Suns down.

Besides, I'm still not sold on Scola being anything more than a marginal player.

[BeerIsGood!]

The Suns OWN the Rockets and would beat the Jazz in five. Everyone loves to point out how the Jazz beat the Suns three times but two of those were during their terrible start (one where Nash didn't even play) and the Suns DESTROYED the Jazz in Utah in their final meeting.

I don't worry about the Mavs. The Suns and Nash have a mental edge over the Mavs and Dirk.

That's why I said maybe, because this is a new season and things may be different against those lineups. Probably not, but I still think the Suns' title hopes rest on not seeing the Spurs in April or May.

[Findog]

Suns are doing their part. Told ya yesterday you wouldn't see any of that eighty-something to sixty-something garbage.


Yes, preseason games are an absolute barometer for the health of basketball. I got some warming lotion and my pants are around my ankles, can I get some footage of a Suns practice or scrimmage?

[Findog]

Its never an issue until they play San Antonio.

The Suns thumped the Mavericks in April last year and KT didn't even play (coaches decision).

D'Antoni believes that putting KT in didn't stop Duncan at all and also slowed the Suns down so it was a double negative.

Maybe he's right. Maybe a double team with Marion (if Stoudemire or Diaw was guarding him) would be more effective.

Duncan will get his numbers regardless, but with KT, you don't have to double team him nearly as much and the Spurs don't get as good looks from the 3-point line. The Mavs are capable of beating San Antonio because Damp and Diop are servicable bigs. If you have to double Duncan most of the time, you can't beat San Antonio.

[JMarkJohns]

If he's played 30 minutes or more a game, he'll miss 30 or more games this season.

A dependant 20-to-25 minutes would be best. Use the extra minutes to develop Tucker and/or Strawberry early in games.

It won't happen, but it's worth saying...

[da_suns_fan__]

Duncan will get his numbers regardless, but with KT, you don't have to double team him nearly as much and the Spurs don't get as good looks from the 3-point line. The Mavs are capable of beating San Antonio because Damp and Diop are servicable bigs. If you have to double Duncan most of the time, you can't beat San Antonio.

Completely different styles of play. Mavs try to beat the Spurs at their own game.

Thats not the Suns plan.

[Findog]

I don't worry about the Mavs. The Suns and Nash have a mental edge over the Mavs and Dirk.

If the Suns and Mavs meet in the playoffs, I'd be inclined to pick Phoenix, but give me a fucking break. The only team in Dallas' collective head is Golden State. The Suns with Amare and Nash together are 7-5 against Dallas, that's some "ownage." Dallas has won 8 out of the last 12 and the last playoff series against San Antonio. Based off of that, you could make a far more convincing case that the Mavs "own" San Antonio and are in their collective heads, and that's just ridiculous. San Antonio is more than capable of taking Dallas out in a playoff series.

[da_suns_fan__]

If the Suns and Mavs meet in the playoffs, I'd be inclined to pick Phoenix, but give me a fucking break. The only team in Dallas' collective head is Golden State. The Suns with Amare and Nash together are 7-5 against Dallas, that's some "ownage." Dallas has won 8 out of the last 12 and the last playoff series against San Antonio. Based off of that, you could make a far more convincing case that the Mavs "own" San Antonio and are in their collective heads, and that's just ridiculous. San Antonio is more than capable of taking Dallas out in a playoff series.

I believe its there whether you want to admit it or not.

[Findog]

Completely different styles of play. Mavs try to beat the Spurs at their own game.

Thats not the Suns plan.

The Mavs force the Spurs to play small, they're pretty much the only team in the League that can do it.* They station Dirk up at the high post area, where Oberto/Nazr can't guard him, where Duncan has to come out away from the paint and where he is ill-suited to guard him, or they put Bowen on him, meaning they have nobody to guard Josh. The Mavs try to up the tempo when they play San Antonio and slow things down to a half-court pace when they play Phoenix. Dallas' strength is the versatility of their roster, and their weakness is between their ears.

The Suns fail against the Spurs because they can't outrebound them, they don't have the usual advantage at PG because Parker matches up well with Nash, and they have no answer for Duncan.

* I like the Udoka signing for San Antonio, I think that was made with both Howard and Dirk in mind. Bowen can only guard one of them and that frees up the other for a mismatch. With Udoka, they now have two guys that are excellent defenders. It remains to be seen if they can get away offensively with playing them together against Dallas.

[Findog]

Its there whether you want to admit it or not.

It's not there and I don't have to concede anything. When it comes to X's and O's, I'll pick Phoenix in 7 should they meet Dallas in the playoffs, but the only team that is inside Dallas' head is the Warriors. Golden State is basically an itch they can't scratch.

[da_suns_fan__]

The Mavs force the Spurs to play small, they're pretty much the only team in the League that can do it. They station Dirk up at the high post area, where Oberto/Nazr can't guard him, where Duncan has to come out away from the paint and where he is ill-suited to guard him, or they put Bowen on him, meaning they have nobody to guard Josh. The Mavs try to up the tempo when they play San Antonio and slow things down to a half-court pace when they play Phoenix. Dallas' strength is the versatility of their roster, and their weakness is between their ears.

The Suns fail against the Spurs because they can't outrebound them, they don't have the usual advantage at PG because Parker matches up well with Nash, and they have no answer for Duncan.

First of all, didn't the Mavs win a couple of games against the Spurs in 2006 via the free throw line on a couple of questionable calls?

The Mavs hardly have the Spurs number.

And secondly, Im inclined to think that you have never seen the Suns play the Spurs if you think Parker matches up well with Nash. Parker doesn't even gaurd Nash...Bowen does and Parker had a BAD outing 3 out of 6 games in their playoff matchup last year.

And in spite of having no anwer for Duncan, the Suns still had a 2-2 series going back to Phoenix before the suspensions were handed out, so they must be doing something right.

[monosylab1k]

Completely different styles of play. Mavs try to beat the Spurs at their own game.

Thats not the Suns plan.
So their plan is to lose to SA? Great plan :tu

[monosylab1k]

First of all, didn't the Mavs win a couple of games against the Spurs in 2006 via the free throw line on a couple of questionable calls?
no

[da_suns_fan__]

no

Pretty sure they did....didn't Bowen get whistled for a phantom call and Dirk was able to win the game at the line?

Spurs fans help me out.

[Findog]

First of all, didn't the Mavs win a couple of games against the Spurs in 2006 via the free throw line on a couple of questionable calls?

The Mavs hardly have the Spurs number.

And secondly, Im inclined to think that you have never seen the Suns play the Spurs if you think Parker matches up well with Nash. Parker doesn't even gaurd Nash...Bowen does and Parker had a bad outing 3 out of six games last year.

And in spite of having no anwer for Duncan, the Suns still had a 2-2 series going back to Phoenix before the suspensions were handed out, so they must be doing something right.

I'm well aware the Suns hide Nash defensively by sticking him on Bowen. What I'm saying is that against 28 other teams, the Suns have a big advantage when it comes to the PG position. Nash's "defense" usually isn't an issue against most other teams. It is against San Antonio because they have to stick Marion on Parker instead of using him on Duncan.

And you're seriously deluding yourself if you think the suspensions cost your team that series. You were down 20 points in the fourth quarter of Game Six with your lineup intact. I think Phoenix got a raw deal with the suspensions because it was akin to firing a guy for being one minute late to work, but that's not why they lost the series.

As for "questionable calls" when it comes to Dallas and San Antonio, calls even out over the course of the series. I never said Dallas "owns" San Antonio or "has their number," I simply pointed out we've won 8 of the last 12 and the last playoff series. I'd trade it for a ring. Bitching about the refs is what losers do. Bennett Salvatore didn't rob Dallas of a title, Dwyane Wade did. Dallas matches up well against San Antonio and over the course of a game and a series questionable calls even out. San Antonio benefited from just as many "questionable" calls as Dallas did. Their Game 7 comeback would've never been possible if the refs had bothered to call all of the over-and-back violations Timmy committed while the Spurs scrapped their way back.

[da_suns_fan__]

Ah yes....here it is:

Nowitzki scored 21 of his 27 points from the foul line, including a go-ahead pair with 7.9 seconds left, and had 15 rebounds.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260513006

And then there was the Ginobili foul which was definately a foul but very out of character.

Luck was definatley on their side in that series.

[Findog]

Pretty sure they did....didn't Bowen get whistled for a phantom call and Dirk was able to win the game at the line?

Spurs fans help me out.

No. Bowen hacked Dirk at the end of Game 5 and the refs swallowed their whistles. It led to the jump ball where Terry hit Finley in the nuts. If we want to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game, that series ends in six games if JET keeps his hands off Finley's junk. Last time I want to hear about Manu's fuckup handing Dallas a gift.

[da_suns_fan__]

I'm well aware the Suns hide Nash defensively by sticking him on Bowen. What I'm saying is that against 28 other teams, the Suns have a big advantage when it comes to the PG position. Nash's "defense" usually isn't an issue against most other teams. It is against San Antonio because they have to stick Marion on Parker instead of using him on Duncan.

And you're seriously deluding yourself if you think the suspensions cost your team that series. You were down 20 points in the fourth quarter of Game Six with your lineup intact. I think Phoenix got a raw deal with the suspensions because it was akin to firing a guy for being one minute late to work, but that's not why they lost the series.

As for "questionable calls" when it comes to Dallas and San Antonio, calls even out over the course of the series. I never said Dallas "owns" San Antonio or "has their number," I simply pointed out we've won 8 of the last 12 and the last playoff series. I'd trade it for a ring. Bitching about the refs is what losers do. Bennett Salvatore didn't rob Dallas of a title, Dwyane Wade did. Dallas matches up well against San Antonio and over the course of a game and a series questionable calls even out. San Antonio benefited from just as many "questionable" calls as Dallas did. Their Game 7 comeback would've never been possible if the refs had bothered to call all of the over-and-back violations Timmy committed while the Spurs scrapped their way back.

I read the first line and just laughed.

I guess that Spurs "hide" Parker by sticking Bowen on Nash.

Dumbass. I'll attempt to read the rest now.

[monosylab1k]

Pretty sure they did....didn't Bowen get whistled for a phantom call and Dirk was able to win the game at the line?
Dirk won the game at the line but there was no phantom call.

And why would you ask Spurs fans about this? Spurs fans have never seen the Spurs commit a foul ever.

For someone who accuses others of kissing Spurs fans asses on this site, you're doing an awful lot of puckering in this thread.

[Findog]

Ah yes....here it is:

Nowitzki scored 21 of his 27 points from the foul line, including a go-ahead pair with 7.9 seconds left, and had 15 rebounds.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260513006

And then there was the Ginobili foul which was definately a foul but very out of character.

Luck was definatley on their side in that series.

As was skill and determination. If JET doesnt punch Finley in the nuts, that series ends in six games at the AAC. The Spurs were lucky to get to play a Game Seven on their court.

[monosylab1k]

No. Bowen hacked Dirk at the end of Game 5 and the refs swallowed their whistles. It led to the jump ball where Terry hit Finley in the nuts. If we want to play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game, that series ends in six games if JET keeps his hands off Finley's junk. Last time I want to hear about Manu's fuckup handing Dallas a gift.
I think he was referring to game 3 but who knows. That series was so boring I doubt he watched any of it.

[Walter Craparita]

Suns are doing their part. Told ya yesterday you wouldn't see any of that eighty-something to sixty-something garbage.

0
4

Scoreboard.

[Walter Craparita]

Its never an issue until they play San Antonio.

The Suns thumped the Mavericks in April last year and KT didn't even play (coaches decision).

D'Antoni believes that putting KT in didn't stop Duncan at all and also slowed the Suns down so it was a double negative.

Maybe he's right. Maybe a double team with Marion (if Stoudemire or Diaw was guarding him) would be more effective.

People dog on the Suns for no defense but when they doubled Duncan with Jesus and whoever else a couple of those games, it did work. Maybe not all the time but I remember a good stretch one of those games when Duncan was completely shut out.

[monosylab1k]

So what's the Suns' plan to beat SA? I have yet to hear it.

[Findog]

Dirk won the game at the line but there was no phantom call.

And why would you ask Spurs fans about this? Spurs fans have never seen the Spurs commit a foul ever.

For someone who accuses others of kissing Spurs fans asses on this site, you're doing an awful lot of puckering in this thread.

Lots of good Spurs fans here, but haha, you're right. They take their cue from Timmy: palms upward, sad pleading eyes, along with the familiar refrain: "What did I do?"

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1240/632788748_e029e8c86f_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1131/584164849_221b9215c7_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1099/584175365_68960df79a_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1036/584164855_c2cbd81531_o.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/584165117_7dc5f2ae2d_o.jpg

[Findog]

I think he was referring to game 3 but who knows. That series was so boring I doubt he watched any of it.

The Lakers-Suns first-round series in 2006 saved basketball and was so much better. Mavs-Spurs 2006 was more boring than a WNBA game.

[monosylab1k]

Lots of good Spurs fans here, but haha, you're right. They take their cue from Timmy: palms upward, sad pleading eyes, along with the familiar refrain: "What did I do?"

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1240/632788748_e029e8c86f_o.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=632788748&context=set-72157600421824553&size=o

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1131/584164849_221b9215c7_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1099/584175365_68960df79a_o.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1036/584164855_c2cbd81531_o.jpg


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/584165117_7dc5f2ae2d_o.jpg

:lol the signature move - SPURS PALMS UP!

[da_suns_fan__]

Ok...read the rest of FinDog's garbage.

He claims the Spurs were obviously the superior team as the Suns were down by twenty in the fourth quarter in game six in San Antonio.

Well the Suns WON a game by twenty at home in game 2, so I don't know what your point is. The Suns aren't perfect...no one expects them to win EVERY game. They did what they had to do by winning game four in San Antonio. If those suspensions weren't handed out, the Suns might have won game five AND six as you probably would have had a better performace from the guys who were so dreary from having to play all of game 5.

My point, again, is that they were doing something right. They still had home court advantage after four games so they put themselves in a position to win.

Hopefully, this year there won't be any outside interference.

[Stargazer]

I think the Suns could possibly run Yao into 2nd half ineffectiveness and could beat the Rockets with that small lineup.

Have you ever actually seen them play? Yao gets "run into ineffectiveness" after the first possession. The problem isn't endurance -- he's just too slow.

[monosylab1k]

Hopefully, this year my team isn't full of idiots who don't know the rules.

[Findog]

If those suspensions weren't handed out, the Suns might have won game five AND six

With their season on the line, they crapped the bed in Game Six. The further into a series you get, the more important it becomes to bring your A game. Dallas flamed out in the postseason and so did Phoenix. They both have a shit-ton of excuses and no rings to start the new season.

[monosylab1k]

So what's the Suns' plan to beat SA? I have yet to hear it.

[da_suns_fan__]

Have you ever actually seen them play? Yao gets "run into ineffectiveness" after the first possession. The problem isn't endurance -- he's just too slow.


Very true....I just roll my eyes whenever someone claims the Rockets could possibly take out the Suns.

The Suns usually lead every game against the Rockets from start to finish. I don't think there's another team in the league that the Suns are able to dominate more.

[da_suns_fan__]

With their season on the line, they crapped the bed in Game Six. The further into a series you get, the more important it becomes to bring your A game. Dallas flamed out in the postseason and so did Phoenix. They both have a shit-ton of excuses and no rings to start the new season.


CLASSIC FinDog.

Yeah...the Suns and Mavs are in the same boat. :rolleyes

How many games was Dirk suspended for against the Warriors?

How many games did Amare or Nash lay an egg like Dirk did?

[monosylab1k]

Yeah...the Suns and Mavs are in the same boat. :rolleyes
did either of them win a championship?

[monosylab1k]

How many games did Amare or Nash lay an egg like Dirk did?
Amare layed a goose egg in game 5 due to his own stupidity.

[monosylab1k]

Looks like da_suns_fan__ has nothing else to say since he's been owned like a bitch yet again.

http://faroutshirts.com/images/Gameover-web-final.jpg

have a great weekend, fellas.

[BillsCarnage]

Preseason and all the other crap aside, the thing I liked most about the game is that D'Aant used NINE players in the first half.. Hopefully he's working on extending the rotation to a solid nine.

When is the last time the Suns used nine players in a season??!?! LOL

[da_suns_fan__]

Looks like da_suns_fan__ has nothing else to say since he's been owned like a bitch yet again.

http://faroutshirts.com/images/Gameover-web-final.jpg

have a great weekend, fellas.

The Mavs suck...and now that monos is gone for the weekend and won't be checking this board, Im going to assume that means that he has nothing else to say and I've officially owned him.

You texans never cease to amuse me.

[da_suns_fan__]

Preseason and all the other crap aside, the thing I liked most about the game is that D'Aant used NINE players in the first half.. Hopefully he's working on extending the rotation to a solid nine.

When is the last time the Suns used nine players in a season??!?! LOL


It was difficult for him considering the season started out so bad last year and he quickly vowed NOT to use his bench for the rest of the year.

Maybe this year he'll be a little more level headed.

[Findog]

CLASSIC FinDog.

Yeah...the Suns and Mavs are in the same boat. :rolleyes

How many games was Dirk suspended for against the Warriors?

How many games did Amare or Nash lay an egg like Dirk did?

Well, they're not exactly in the same boat, since the Mavs have beaten a championship-caliber team and the Suns haven't.

[Findog]

Im going to assume that means that he has nothing else to say and I've officially owned him.

It means that he probably has other life obligations than sitting in front of mommy's computer all day like you. Also, since he won the argument, there's nothing left to say indeed.

[Findog]

Maybe

Good word for a Suns fan to learn, along with might, if and should. Whatever gets you through the season.

[Findog]

So what's the Suns' plan to beat SA? I have yet to hear it

Crickets chirping.

[MoSpur]

As long as the Suns stay committed to NOT playing defense, they won't win a championship.

[da_suns_fan__]

Well, they're not exactly in the same boat, since the Mavs have beaten a championship-caliber team and the Suns haven't.

Holy crap.....I've invented a time machine to take me back to two weeks ago!

What did I respond with the last time? Hmmmmmm?

Oh yeah.....

Take solace that the mavs were able to beat a championship caliber team but STILL weren't good enought to win a championship in 2006 all you want.

But for this season, I would think the Mavs should just be concerned with getting past the first round unlike 2007.

[da_suns_fan__]

Crickets chirping.


Post 16, dumbass.

[da_suns_fan__]

It means that he probably has other life obligations than sitting in front of mommy's computer all day like you. Also, since he won the argument, there's nothing left to say indeed.

You are such an idiot. I just shake my head in disbelief.


Read it again dumbass.

[Findog]

Holy crap.....I've invented a time machine to take me back to two weeks ago!



I'm not talking about Mark Aguirre or Rolando Blackman da_suns_dumbass...

Dallas has 80% of its 06 roster intact and so does San Antonio. Dallas has a more impressive body of work over the past 3 years than Phoenix and can actually play defense. 06 is just as relevant as last year. The Mavs can just as easily make a Finals as they can underachieve. And speaking of achievements, what did Phoenix do last year that was so awesome? Oh yeah, you beat Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom's vagina and 10 D-Leaguers. I'm really impressed. Golden State >> LA Lakers.

So how is Phoenix gonna win a title this year? What is the plan for beating San Antonio? Give us your analysis Dr. Jack.

[Amarelooms]

You are such an idiot. I just shake my head in disbelief.


Read it again dumbass.

You are the most annoying poster on here. Face it the Suns have NONE...ZERO chance of coming out the West....stop kidding with yourself. Playing run and jack up 3's might win a bunch of games but wont allow you to get to the Finals let alone win a ring. Have a good day now douche bag :elephant

[Findog]

You are such an idiot. I just shake my head in disbelief.

That's all you got? You're resorting to namecalling and the best you can do is idiot? No cuntmuffin? assbag? twatwaffle?



Read it again dumbass

I think I will read that whole exchange again. It's always a hoot to watch you get owned.

[hater]

hail the Suns, champions of preseason basketball!

[da_suns_fan__]

I'm not talking about Mark Aguirre or Rolando Blackman da_suns_dumbass...

Dallas has 80% of its 06 roster intact and so does San Antonio. Dallas has a more impressive body of work over the past 3 years than Phoenix and can actually play defense. 06 is just as relevant as last year. The Mavs can just as easily make a Finals as they can underachieve. And speaking of achievements, what did Phoenix do last year that was so awesome? Oh yeah, you beat Kobe Bryant, Lamar Odom's vagina and 10 D-Leaguers. I'm really impressed. Golden State >> LA Lakers.

So how is Phoenix gonna win a title this year? What is the plan for beating San Antonio? Give us your analysis Dr. Jack.

You are ALWAYS saying that! :lol

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?

The Suns beat the Lakers. The Mavs LOST to the warriors.

The Suns would have beaten the Warriors too.

Whats your point?

btw -

Post 16. Post 16. Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.Post 16.

I don't know how many times I can say it.

[da_suns_fan__]

You are the most annoying poster on here. Face it the Suns have NONE...ZERO chance of coming out the West....stop kidding with yourself. Playing run and jack up 3's might win a bunch of games but wont allow you to get to the Finals let alone win a ring. Have a good day now douche bag :elephant


Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaha.


Victory is so sweet!

[Findog]

Post 16, dumbass.

Crickets chirping.

[da_suns_fan__]

That's all you got? You're resorting to namecalling and the best you can do is idiot? No cuntmuffin? assbag? twatwaffle?




I think I will read that whole exchange again. It's always a hoot to watch you get owned.


Its a hoot everytime I point out when you make a mistake.

I just imagine you slapping yourself in the face!

SLOW DOWN!!!

Take the time to read posts before you respond and this will stop happening.

[Findog]

The Suns beat the Lakers. The Mavs LOST to the warriors.

Suns beat a shitty team. Mavs lost to a decent team. Both teams came up far short of a championship. I don't get all of the bragging about what a great season the Suns had. If you're satisfied with "fighting the good fight," so be it.


The Suns would have beaten the Warriors too.

Probably, but it's far from certain.



Whats your point?

My point is that both teams are quite talented, will win a lot of regular season games and have their own flaws and issues to deal with when it comes to playoff success. For Dallas, it's mental toughness and a lack of post scoring. For Phoenix, it's a lack of defense and lack of maturity. To brag about going one round further in the playoffs when you didn't have to beat a quality opponent is just asinine.




btw -

Post 16.

btw

Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping Crickets chirping

I don't know how many times I can say it.

"Uh, so like, we didn't defend the Spurs too good, and they pounded our small lineup, so let's just go even smaller and hope for the best."

Crickets chirping.

[Findog]

Take the time to read posts before you respond and this will stop happening.

Take the time to plan out a coherent and logical response and maybe you won't be seen as a laughingstock at worst and an unimaginative, repetitive troll at best.

[Findog]

hail the Suns, champions of preseason basketball!

We should thank our lucky stars that they're saving basketball.

[da_suns_fan__]

Suns beat a shitty team. Mavs lost to a decent team. Both teams came up far short of a championship. I don't get all of the bragging about what a great season the Suns had. If you're satisfied with "fighting the good fight," so be it.


The Suns didn't come up FAR short of a championship. They took the eventual champs farther than anyone else, didn't they?

What does it matter if the Warriors were better than the Lakers. The Mavs still should have beaten them!! The Warriors weren't that good. All they could manage was one win against the Jazz.

And, again, the Suns would have DESTROYED the Warriors just like they destroyed the Lakers.

[da_suns_fan_]

Findog, I don't know how many times I have to tell you - The Suns plan is the same as always. We're going to get our asses handed to us by a superior team who plays defense, then bitch and whine incessantly about injuries and/or suspensions. Then in desperation grasp at the only thing available for a Suns fan to brag about - TV ratings.

[Findog]

The Suns didn't come up FAR short of a championship.

They went out in the second round...there's four rounds, you know. The Suns didn't come anywhere near a title.


They took the eventual champs farther than anyone else, didn't they? WE LOST THE BEST

Well, if you're happy with getting eliminated in six games, so be it. Couldn't even take it the distance.


The Warriors weren't that good.

Do they go 42-40 with Jax and Harrington there all year? With Baron and Richardson not missing 50 combined games to injury?


All they could manage was one win against the Jazz.

Well, since it's kosher to point out how competitive a team can be in a loss, the one blowout in the series belonged to Golden State, and the other four went down to the wire. If I'm playing the Warriors, I'd rather have Carlos Boozer than Dirk Nowitzki. If I'm playing the Spurs, I'd rather have Dirk Nowitzki than Carlos Boozer. It's pretty much 90% matchups and 10% intangibles.


And, again, the Suns would have DESTROYED the Warriors just like they destroyed the Lakers

I don't know about "destroyed," considering the Warriors beat the Suns after they got healthy and D'Antoni said he didn't want to play them in the playoffs. Probably a victory, but that Golden State team isn't getting the respect it deserved.

Either way, keep bragging about regular season wins, white guys winning MVP trophies and good ratings. That seems to be your only criteria for success.

[Findog]

Findog, I don't know how many times I have to tell you - The Suns plan is the same as always. We're going to get our asses handed to us by a superior team who plays defense, then bitch and whine incessantly about injuries and/or suspensions. Then in desperation grasp at the only thing available for a Suns fan to brag about - TV ratings.

You're finally talking some sense, "da suns fan." Good for you. ;)

I'm waiting for your alter ego to post some nonsense about not being able to distinguish post counts.

[da_suns_fan__]

I could go on about this forever...

I can't believe FinDog is trying to save face when the Mavs lost to a shitty team.

"The shitty team we lost to is slightly better that the shitty team you beat. We're the same!"


We lost to the champions in the second round and made a really good run at them. Might have won had it not been for some outside interference.

You lost to a shitty team in the first round.

We're not the same.

[da_suns_fan__]

You're finally talking some sense, "da suns fan." Good for you. ;)

I'm waiting for your alter ego to post some nonsense about not being able to distinguish post counts.

Look at you!

:lol

I kicked your ass today, pal! :clap

[da_suns_fan_]

Look at you!

:lol

I kicked your ass today, pal! :clap
friend, we just need to cut our losses and leave with our tail between our legs.

we got owned, plain and simple. your desperation smack smells of.....desperation. pathetic desperation at that. I don't need you sullying my good "da suns fan" name with this garbage.

[Xylus]

:wakeup

[Findog]

I could go on about this forever...

I'm sure you could, since you're on your mommy's dialup connection. I have better things to do after 3:30 when the work week ends.



We lost to the champions in the second round and made a really good run at them.

We beat them when we had our shot. We've made a Finals. Two things Phoenix hasn't done and can't do. Dallas is closer to a title than Phoenix. QED.


Might have won had it not been for some outside interference.

Or if you had a coach that trusted his bench, or a PG that doesn't need to be hidden on defense and forces your best defender to guard Tony Parker, or if you could contain Tim Duncan, or if your best post player wasn't immature and incapable of self-discipline, or if you could play good team defense, or if...list goes on.



We're not the same

Same result: Not even close to a title in 2007.

Not the same: Dallas is closer to a title and can play defense and hang with San Antonio.

[Findog]

Look at me!

:lol

You kicked my ass today, pal!

You're very welcome.

[Xylus]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rRg3HgV65ic

Check out the sweet play at the :50 mark.

[Reggie Miller]

For the record, the Warriors were not a shitty team at the end of last season. They essentially had all of the best players from two previously average/mediocre teams (except the Pacers kept Jermaine O'Neal). That makes you pretty damn good, even in the West.

I find it particularly ironic that dumb suns fan thinks that the Suns would have destroyed Golden State based on the outcome of the Utah series. Another run 'n' gun team was eliminated by a more traditional, defense-oriented team. In my mind, this illustrates the problems with Nelly-ball, not the weakness of the Warriors.

Interestingly, the Warriors actually had the personnel to field a more traditional team after the Pacers trade. It would have been a blast to see them try that over a full season (this year), but it ain't happening with Nelson.

[da_suns_fan__]

You're very welcome.

I don't mean to be so hard on you....but you BEG for it. :lol

I've basically become your reason for being on this board. You follow me from thread to thread starting arguments that you can't win.

[Findog]

I've basically become your reason for being on this board.

That's right, I signed up eons before you and never comment on anything that isn't Suns-related.


You follow me from thread to thread

Or, I like to shoot fish in a barrel, and you make me look good.

[Findog]

For the record, the Warriors were not a shitty team at the end of last season. They essentially had all of the best players from two previously average/mediocre teams (except the Pacers kept Jermaine O'Neal). That makes you pretty damn good, even in the West.

I find it particularly ironic that dumb suns fan thinks that the Suns would have destroyed Golden State based on the outcome of the Utah series. Another run 'n' gun team was eliminated by a more traditional, defense-oriented team. In my mind, this illustrates the problems with Nelly-ball, not the weakness of the Warriors.

Interestingly, the Warriors actually had the personnel to field a more traditional team after the Pacers trade. It would have been a blast to see them try that over a full season (this year), but it ain't happening with Nelson.


The denigration of Golden State is more about trying to magnify the failure of Dallas to get out of the first round after such a great regular season than it is about downplaying what Golden State was. Injuries and a mid-season trade means they weren't your typical .500 eighth-seed. Dallas' offensive and defensive efficiency ratings were pretty much the same as the previous two years when they won 58 and 60 games, respectively. They were going full speed night in and night out in fifth gear while a good 1/3 of the league was tanking for draft position.

It was surely an upset for Dallas to lose, and it will go down as the greatest in NBA history because of the regular season W-L records involved, but it was a mild upset, not a major one. Golden State had the better backcourt, Davis and Richardson >> Terry and Harris. 90% of the time, the team with the better backcourt wins. Throw in that GS's coach was uniquely suited to take it to Dallas because of his insider's knowledge of the tendencies and weaknesses of Dallas' players, and it's much more understandable.

67-win teams don't lose to .500 8-seeds. A little context goes a long way. It was still a disappoint and a failure, but it's been blown out of proportion. There seems to be two extremes, that the Mavs were the victim of X's and O's matchups on one end, and they're gutless pussy chokers on the other end of the spectrum. The truth is somewhere in between.

[SpursDynasty]

There shouldn't be too much pressure on Phoenix.

No one really expects them to win anything this year.... Just go out and run and shoot and play. Go easy on Grant Hill. Phoenix are going into this season as underdogs.

[SpursDynasty]

GS was very capable of winning that series. Golden State had a chance of stealing Game 2 at Utah, but Utah was stubborn and won the game in overtime. Had GS won Game 2, they pretty much would've won the series.

[da_suns_fan__]

The denigration of Golden State is more about trying to magnify the failure of Dallas to get out of the first round after such a great regular season than it is about downplaying what Golden State was. Injuries and a mid-season trade means they weren't your typical .500 eighth-seed.

No matter how you spin it, Golden State could still only manage a single victory against the jazz. If they were so much better than their record indicated, why did they play like an eigth seed against Utah?


It was surely an upset for Dallas to lose, and it will go down as the greatest in NBA history because of the regular season W-L records involved, but it was a mild upset, not a major one.

If this was not a major upset, what is? What EXTRAORDINARY circumstances would FinDog consider an upset to be "major".

The only other series that could compare would be Seattle/Denver.

1) Dallas had a better record that Seattle
2) Dallas lost in a seven game series rather than a five
3) No one on Seattle was accused of "laying an egg" the way Dirk did



67-win teams don't lose to .500 8-seeds.

Except in Dallas!! :lol



There seems to be two extremes, that the Mavs were the victim of X's and O's matchups on one end, and they're gutless pussy chokers on the other end of the spectrum. The truth is somewhere in between.

That might be true.....if the Mavs didn't choke in 2006 as well.

But they did.

Im sure there will be some other team next year that will just match up better "Xs and Os wise" and FinDog will have a litany of excuses as to why the Mavs lost to them as well.

[Findog]

No matter how you spin it, Golden State could still only manage a single victory against the jazz.

It was a competitive series. Utah's wins all came down to the wire. Golden State won in a blowout.



If they were so much better than their record indicated, why did they play like an eigth seed against Utah?

Because Utah had Carlos Boozer, a traditional post player and Dallas didn't.



If this was not a major upset, what is?

Appalachian State over Michigan. Stanford over USC.

If we're talking basketball, Denver over Seattle.


Dallas had a better record that Seattle

The league was stronger back then.


Dallas lost in a seven game series rather than a five

07 Warriors > 93 Nuggets.


No one on Seattle was accused of "laying an egg" the way Dirk did

Ask Seattle fans about the performances of Kemp, Payton, Perkins, Schrempf, etc. Of course, since you're only about 14 years old, you wouldn't know.










That might be true.....if the Mavs didn't choke in 2006 as well.

Phoenix can't even get that far in the playoffs, or beat anybody outside of the mediocre LA teams. What we know about Dallas is that they can beat the elite championship teams and are capable of greatness. You can't say the same of the Suns.



Im sure there will be some other team next year that will just match up better "Xs and Os wise" and FinDog will have a litany of excuses as to why the Mavs lost to them as well

And I'm sure when the Suns come up short again we'll be subjected again to the importance of tv ratings. Who cares about winning titles when the Suns are saving basketball instead?

[da_suns_fan__]

It was a competitive series. Utah's wins all came down to the wire. Golden State won in a blowout.

Im sure it was the most competitive 4-1 series in the history of the NBA.

The thing is...Utah wasn't that good either. :lol



Appalachian State over Michigan. Stanford over USC.

If we're talking basketball, Denver over Seattle.

Funny that you decide to switch sports to try to find a bigger upset than the one you claim ISN'T A MAJOR ONE (at this point I've already won but I'll keep going).

A big criticism of the NBA is that the series are too long and the better team always wins. In football, upsets happen frequently because theyre single elimination. In basketball they're EXTREMELY rare.

I brought up that the only basketball series that could possibly compare with the Mavs' choke-job was Seattle/Devner back in 94 (which you don't attempt to refute). My whole point was that if the Mavs' loss wasn't a MAJOR upset, then there is no such thing as a major upset in the NBA!

You don't even attempt to bring in any other series, you just argue that it wasn't AS BAD as Seattle's loss to Devner:


The league was stronger back then.
07 Warriors > 93 Nuggets.
Ask Seattle fans about the performances of Kemp, Payton, Perkins, Schrempf, etc. Of course, since you're only about 14 years old, you wouldn't know.

Surely if we are arguing which of these is the greatest upset of all time, then both should be considered MAJOR upsets, right?

Also, regardless if the Warriors were better than the 93 Nuggets (or the 2007 Lakers :lol ), the Mavericks still had an extra opportunity to save themselves as it was a seven game series instead of a five.

As for your age jab, I was actually fourteen in 1994, and I seem to remember most of the blame being focused on George Karl. He kept a cut-out of a comic from the local paper of him "going fishing" on his fridge for years after that as motivation.


Can't blame him....it was a MAJOR upset. One that wouldn't be topped for the next thirteen years!

[hater]

Findog and sun fan are in love. get a room already

[Findog]

The thing is...Utah wasn't that good either.

You expect to be taken seriously?





My whole point was that if the Mavs' loss wasn't a MAJOR upset, then there is no such thing as a major upset in the NBA!

Well, that's retarded then. The Mavs-Warriors will be remembered as such because of the disparity in records. A look at the actual talent level says otherwise.


You don't even attempt to bring in any other series, you just argue that it wasn't AS BAD as Seattle's loss to Devner:

Because it wasn't. How is that so hard to understand? Is it that hot in Arizona?




Surely if we are arguing which of these is the greatest upset of all time, then both should be considered MAJOR upsets, right?


We're not arguing over which is the greatest upset of all time. You're the one clinging to the fiction that the Dallas-GS series qualifies. I've already demonstrated that it doesn't come close to Denver-Seattle.

[da_suns_fan__]

We're not arguing over which is the greatest upset of all time. You're the one clinging to the fiction that the Dallas-GS series qualifies. I've already demonstrated that it doesn't come close to Denver-Seattle.

Google fun:

Biggest "NBA" Upset (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Biggest+%22NBA%22+upset)

Go through the first few pages....see which teams/series keep getting mentioned.

:lol :lol :lol

And you still can't tell me why an 8th seed upsetting a 1 seed in five games is a bigger upset than an 8th seed upsetting a 1 seed in seven games.

[Findog]

Google fun:

Biggest "NBA" Upset (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Biggest+%22NBA%22+upset)

Go through the first few pages....see which teams/series keep getting mentioned.



And you still can't tell me why an 8th seed upsetting a 1 seed in five games is a bigger upset than an 8th seed upsetting a 1 seed in seven games.\

Not disputing at all that it will be remembered as such. But for anybody who knows anything about basketball, which doesn't include you, by the way, it was a mild upset. Again, the only thing that people will remember is that a 67-win team lost to a 42-win team. Was the talent gap worth 25 games in the standings? Absolutely not. It was more on par with a second-round matchup.

Are you gonna seriously argue that Jason Terry and Devin Harris > Baron Davis and Jason Richardson? Are you going to seriously argue that the Warriors finish 42-40 with Richardson, Davis, Jackson and Harrington on that team all year long? They went 16-3 with their playoff roster intact. It takes nuance to see that which lies below the surface, something you're incapable of.

weekend is finally here! See you later folks!

[SpursDynasty]

Let me quote Bill Russell concerning "upsets". In my opinion, the greatest upset of last season was Cleveland over Detroit. Cleveland doesn't give Detroit match-up problems, Cleveland hasn't got anybody but LeBron. LeBron just happened to get hot from the field at a time Detroit got lazy. Then a no-name (Daniel Gibson) had a 1/100 career night in Game 6.

BILL RUSSELL: "I don’t consider what Golden State has done thus far to be an upset because they had defeated Dallas all three times they played in the regular season. Regardless of the fact that Dallas won 67 games this year, one thing you must take note of is that the playoffs are different than the regular season. For the first time, you get to concentrate exclusively on one team over a period of time."

BILL RUSSELL: "As we found out last year in the playoffs, Dallas is not that good defensively. Every year in every major competition we always focus on the offensive players and make them the favorites. When they don’t win, we say it’s an upset, but before the game everyone concludes that the best defensive team will win the series."

[da_suns_fan__]

\


Are you gonna seriously argue that Jason Terry and Devin Harris > Baron Davis and Jason Richardson? Are you going to seriously argue that the Warriors finish 42-40 with Richardson, Davis, Jackson and Harrington on that team all year long? They went 16-3 with their playoff roster intact. It takes nuance to see that which lies below the surface, something you're incapable of.

weekend is finally here! See you later folks!

Whats with your NEW obsession with the backcourts? The Mavs teams was FAR superior in talent to the Warriors, but now only backcourts matter?

Your excuses are priceless FinDog, but irrelevant. I could play your game with any matchup:

If the Suns would have lost to the Lakers, I could say "well, the Lakers had the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD and a significant size advantage up front. The Lakers started out on fire but ran into injury problems in the second half and were far superior to an average seventh seed".

If the Nuggets beat the Spurs I could say "well the Nuggets had Iverson and Carmelo and were much better than your normal sixth seed as the iverson trade didn't happen until mid-season. They also had two agile seven footers who matched up well against Duncan. Just a bad matchup for San Antonio"

If the Rockets beat the Jazz I could say "well McGrady and Yao were injured so much that their record was a bad indicator of how good they were. They were much better than a normal fifth seed".


But those three teams got it done against weaker opponents like they were suppose to. The Mavs didn't. And the fact that you think the Warriors are a legitimate second round team is pathetic. The Warriors were so legitimate they managed a single victory against a mediocre Jazz team.

More garbage from FinDog. I just wonder what the excuse will be NEXT year!

[SpursDynasty]

It wasn't an upset. Golden State just went out and did what they were expected to do: Beat a team that they were capable of and had beaten 6 out of the last 7 games before the first round series.

[JMarkJohns]

God help this thread...

[Findog]

The Mavs teams was FAR superior in talent to the Warriors,

Really? Do you know anything about basketball?


but now only backcourts matter?

In that series it mattered a lot. Where did I say it was the *only* factor? Can you mount a coherent argument, or is strawmen all you have?





If the Suns would have lost to the Lakers, I could say "well, the Lakers had the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD and a significant size advantage up front. The Lakers started out on fire but ran into injury problems in the second half and were far superior to an average seventh seed".

If the Nuggets beat the Spurs I could say "well the Nuggets had Iverson and Carmelo and were much better than your normal sixth seed as the iverson trade didn't happen until mid-season. They also had two agile seven footers who matched up well against Duncan. Just a bad matchup for San Antonio"

If the Rockets beat the Jazz I could say "well McGrady and Yao were injured so much that their record was a bad indicator of how good they were. They were much better than a normal fifth seed".

Did I say the Mavs shouldn't have beaten Golden State? My argument is that it was a MINOR upset, not the GOAT. Can you comprehend that?



And the fact that you think the Warriors are a legitimate second round team is pathetic.

The fact that you can't mount a rebuttal and have to resort to strawmen is pathetic. Let me ask you a simple question: Are the Warriors a significantly better team when you add Baron Davis, Jason Richardson, Stephen Jackson and Al Harrington to their roster? Yes or No.

My argument is not that the Mavericks shouldn't have beaten the Warriors, my argument is that the Mavs suffered a minor upset, not a major one. You can't refute that, so you have to twist it to something you can knock down. My team failed. I accept it. Yours did as well. But hey, that's okay. They get good ratings and they're saving basketball. That's more important than championships.


The Warriors were so legitimate they managed a single victory against a mediocre Jazz team.

I didn't realize 52 wins was "mediocre." I guess the Jazz are "mediocre" because they don't get high tv ratings and they're not saving basketball like the Suns.


More garbage from FinDog. I just wonder what the excuse will be NEXT year!

I think I'll go with something along the lines of crooked refs and bogus suspensions, and that it doesn't matter anyway because tv ratings are what's really important and the Mavs are saving basketball.

I have no illusions whatsoever about my team. If I had to wager money in Vegas, I would not pick the Mavs to win a series against San Antonio or Phoenix next year. But we have the capability to win a title, we've made a Finals and beaten a defending champ, something that can't be said of Phoenix. My team is probably not winning a title next year. Your team definitely isn't. Suck on that.

[Findog]

It wasn't an upset. Golden State just went out and did what they were expected to do: Beat a team that they were capable of and had beaten 6 out of the last 7 games before the first round series.

This is fucked up. I find myself in agreement with SpursDynasty, except for the "expected to do" part.

[yourcheatinheart]

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/meeks4president/crowlaugh.gif

[SpursDynasty]

Who said Utah was not that good?

Success in the NBA is measured by play against Dallas and Phoenix, right?

They were 2-1 vs Dallas and 3-1 vs Phoenix, and 2-2 vs the Spurs.

Yet everyone expected Houston to win the first round series. Utah over Houston in the first round was one of the best moments of the season. Mehmet Okur is more clutch than McGrady.

[Findog]

Who said Utah was not that good?

da_suns_dumbass



They were 2-1 vs Dallas

Just a nitpick: they won the last meeting in Dallas, when the Mavericks had already clinched HCA and played their scrubs, while the Jazz were fighting the Rockets for the 5th seed and went all-out.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

da_suns_dumbass




Just a nitpick: they won the last meeting in Dallas, when the Mavericks had already clinched HCA and played their scrubs, while the Jazz were fighting the Rockets for the 5th seed and went all-out.


:rolleyes :rolleyes Dude he has a big performance tomorrow night at the University of North Texas Superpit basketball stadium! You better show up to the concert along with Mono! I made us t-shirts and all to show how big of fans we are. If we can do this the right way, we might get to hang out with the band afterwards! Dont screw this up! :madrun :madrun :madrun :)

[Findog]

:rolleyes :rolleyes Dude he has a big performance tomorrow night at the University of North Texas Superpit basketball stadium! You better show up to the concert along with Mono! I made us t-shirts and all to show how big of fans we are. If we can do this the right way, we might get to hang out with the band afterwards! Dont screw this up! :madrun :madrun :madrun :)

Pretty sad when SpursDynasty is owning a dude. In between JDB gigs, he finds the time to be the voice of sanity and reason compared to da_suns_dumbass. How embarrassing when you're outwitted by SpursDynasty.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

Pretty sad when SpursDynasty is owning a dude. In between JDB gigs, he finds the time to be the voice of sanity and reason compared to da_suns_dumbass. How embarrassing when you're outwitted by SpursDynasty.


i HONESTLY believe its the stress from the JDB gigs and upcoming gigs that bring out this insanity in him. I mean hes trying to make it in this world. I understand. I must admit that they play some great fucking music! Tickets are selling like hotcakes here in Denton.

[Findog]

i HONESTLY believe its the stress from the JDB gigs and upcoming gigs that bring out this insanity in him. I mean hes trying to make it in this world. I understand. I must admit that they play some great fucking music! Tickets are selling like hotcakes here in Denton.

They may have to move the gig from the SuperPit to Fouts Field. He's quite the renaissance man, a world-class drummer and an astute expert on basketball.

[Johnny RIngo]

And the fact that you think the Warriors are a legitimate second round team is pathetic. The Warriors were so legitimate they managed a single victory against a mediocre Jazz team.

That Jazz team owned the S0ns in the reg season and would have owned them in the playoffs. Deron Williams destroys Nash on both ends of the court(at least he knows how to play defense). Boozer and Okur would manhandle the paltry Phoenix frontcourt.

Because the S0ns don't bother to play defense almost every playoff squad has a decent shot at defeating them in a playoff series(with the exception of the Lakers/Clippers :lol )

If anything, the S0ns fans should thank the Spurs for saving them the humiliation of getting beaten by a "mediocre Jazz team".

The soft Euroball tactics that D'Antoni applies are a fast track for failure. Gimmick basketball won't win you a championship. Ask the '82 Nuggets. Not like D'Antoni's gonna change though. Because he's a shitty coach he's too afraid to try anything else so I expect more of the same from the S0ns this year:

1. S0ns rack up easy wins against the bottom feeder squads in the reg season.
2. The Phoenix media proceeds to hype them endlessly.
3. Mediocre players like Steve Trash and Amare get undeserved reg season honors(tainted MVPs, Stoudewhiner making All-NBA first team...lol).
4. They run into a brick wall come playoff time when they face teams that actually bother to play defense. Eliminated by the 2nd round of the playoffs(First round if they face anyone besides the Lakers)
5. S0ns fans bitch about refs, injuries, fouls, etc. They make sure to remind everyone that NEXT year will be their year.
6. Repeat cycle when NBA season begins.


More garbage from S0ns fans. I just wonder what the excuse will be NEXT year!

FIX'D

Pretty funny to see a S0ns fan complaining about other teams making excuses when Phoenix has been all hype and excuses the past three years.

[SpursDynasty]

I am NOT the drummer for the Josh Daniels Band.

Me being the drummer for the Josh Daniels Band is about as likely as my favorite team being Dallas.

I repeat: Me cheering for the Mavs is more likely than the statement that I'm the JDB drummer being true.

[Obstructed_View]

Good for Grant. He's added some desperately needed class to that organization. We'll see whose influence wins out in the end.

[da_suns_fan__]

LOL!

How ya like your little predicament youre in FinDog? Your Mavs buddy is calling SpursDynasty and IDIOT and youre torn between agreeing with him or siding with SpursDynasty because he disagrees with me!!!


"SpursDynasty is an idiot. Except on this!"

- FinDog

Tell me again what qualifies as a MAJOR NBA upset?

[SpursDynasty]

LOL!

How ya like your little predicament youre in FinDog? Your Mavs buddy is calling SpursDynasty and IDIOT and youre torn between agreeing with him or siding with SpursDynasty because he disagrees with me!!!


"SpursDynasty is an idiot. Except on this!"

- FinDog

Tell me again what qualifies as a MAJOR NBA upset?

Let me settle this.

A major NBA upset is when the team that isn't expected to or isn't supposed to win a series, wins it.

For example, the only "upset" last year was Cleveland over Detroit. Detroit went into the series as the favorites. They had the best record in the East. As far as I can see, all other series played out the way they were supposed to. Miami was injured.

A "major" upset would be something along the lines of a #1 seed losing to a #8 seed. However, in the case of Dallas and GS, Dallas' 67-15 record was rather inflated, while GS' #8 seed record was deceiving since they weren't at full strength most of the season. Also, GS had beaten Dallas 6 out of 7 regular season meetings prior to the series. So...if GS had played Dallas in the 2nd round, they still would have won. The #8 seed over the #1 seed in this case was just how things played out as a result of Dallas' inflated record and GS' injuries all season leading to them landing at #8.

[Findog]

LOL!

How ya like your little predicament youre in FinDog? Your Mavs buddy is calling SpursDynasty and IDIOT and youre torn between agreeing with him or siding with SpursDynasty because he disagrees with me!!!


"SpursDynasty is an idiot. Except on this!"

- FinDog

Tell me again what qualifies as a MAJOR NBA upset?


The only predicament I face is whether or not I go easy on you and show you some mercy or continue to embarrass you.

Golden State-Dallas doesn't qualify as a major upset. If you knew anything about basketball, you'd realize that.

[exstatic]

The difference between PHX and DAL is that, as presently constituted, PHX will never win a championship and Dallas might.

The key to winning the rings is that you have to do a good job on your own floor and win some games on the road. In the 2003, 2005, and 2007 series, PHX was a collective 2-7 against SA on their home floor. No need to even look at the road action when you get punked that bad in your own crib.

[yourcheatinheart]

Good for Grant. He's added some desperately needed class to that organization. We'll see whose influence wins out in the end.


don't you have to posses class in order to form an opinoin on who does or does not??

[Obstructed_View]

don't you have to posses class in order to form an opinoin on who does or does not??
Given the track record of the vast majority of Suns fans on this board, I'd have to say yes. Looks like you fall into that camp. You'll just have to take my word for it; Grant has a track record of being classy.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

The difference between PHX and DAL is that, as presently constituted, PHX will never win a championship and Dallas might.

The key to winning the rings is that you have to do a good job on your own floor and win some games on the road. In the 2003, 2005, and 2007 series, PHX was a collective 2-7 against SA on their home floor. No need to even look at the road action when you get punked that bad in your own crib.

All that shows is that we suck against the Spurs (which is true). That doesn't mean we can't win a championship as presently constituted, just that we have to rely on luck in the matchmaking. Which sucks.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

Good for Grant. He's added some desperately needed class to that organization. We'll see whose influence wins out in the end.

Grant's a great veteran presence no doubt, but I'd be much happier about our locker room if we kept KT. With Shawn in 24/7 bleeding vagina mode, we need some older guys to keep things in check.

[Findog]

However, in the case of Dallas and GS, Dallas' 67-15 record was rather inflated, while GS' #8 seed record was deceiving since they weren't at full strength most of the season.

Who are you, and what have you done with SpursDynasty?

[yourcheatinheart]

Given the track record of the vast majority of Suns fans on this board, I'd have to say yes. Looks like you fall into that camp. You'll just have to take my word for it; Grant has a track record of being classy.



pretty fucking full of yourself huh? full of shit.

[Walter Craparita]

All that shows is that we suck against the Spurs (which is true). That doesn't mean we can't win a championship as presently constituted, just that we have to rely on luck in the matchmaking. Which sucks.

What is this luck in the playoffs that you speak of?



Baron you da man :toast

[Findog]

pretty fucking full of yourself huh? full of shit.

There's like literally less than five good Suns fans on this board. You ain't one of them.

[monosylab1k]

There's like literally less than five good Suns fans on this board. You ain't one of them.
By my count there's only 2 - JMark & RonMex

[Findog]

By my count there's only 2 - JMark & RonMex

ODM, BillsCarnage don't post that much, but they're not douchy trolls.

[Budkin]

As a Magic fan all I have to say is: :lmao

[Nashfan]

ODM, BillsCarnage don't post that much, but they're not douchy trolls.

Hey Findog, what about me? :lol

[Findog]

Hey Findog, what about me? :lol

Oh yeah, sorry about that.
:toast

[Obstructed_View]

pretty fucking full of yourself huh? full of shit.
Since you are the only Suns fan in this thread that had a problem with my post, I'd say you're the one who's full of shit. Don't you have to go throw a water bottle at someone?

[JMarkJohns]

da_suns_fanatic__ and yourcheatinheart... giving trolls a bad name since their first letters typed.

*Sung to the toon of the old 'Slinky' commercials*

"They come in pairs, you sit and you stare at their ignorance found. They're trolls! They're trolls, everyone should know that they should be on ignore list! Ig-nore list! Ig-nore list! My God it's a wonderful toy! Ig-nore list! Ig-nore list! ... "

Just fuckin' do it already, will ya! :)

[Obstructed_View]

After all the effort I put into changing "All you idiot Suns fans" to "the majority of you Suns fans"? No way. :)

If it weren't for trolls, the Suns kind in particular, I would have about 3000 posts.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Grant Hill is their salvation? The suns solved their problems by letting go the little defense they had and making a man without legs run.

And the Jazz are a pretty good team.

[JMarkJohns]

After all the effort I put into changing "All you idiot Suns fans" to "the majority of you Suns fans"? No way. :)

If it weren't for trolls, the Suns kind in particular, I would have about 3000 posts.


What about the effort I put into that diddy? :spin

:nope :dont :nope

[Findog]

Grant Hill is their salvation? The suns solved their problems by letting go the little defense they had and making a man without legs run.

And the Jazz are a pretty good team.

According to da_suns_fan, we should all say a prayer to God tonite because Mike D'Antoni and Steve Nash are saving basketball.

[Kriz-Maxima]

What the suns are doing is a travesty.

[da_suns_fan__]

According to da_suns_fan, we should all say a prayer to God tonite because Mike D'Antoni and Steve Nash are saving basketball.

According to FinDog, a number one seed with its entire roster healthy losing to an eigth seed doesn't qualify as a major upset.

Also, according to FinDog, the only major upset in the history of the league was the last time a number one seed loss to eigth seed. The fact that Dallas lost in a seven game series and had a better record than Seattle did in 1994 is irrelevant.

Your homerism is a joke, FinDog. You should be an attraction in a circus:

"See the Dallas Mavericks fan who thinks his team's infamous defeat was NOT a major upset!"

:lol

[Findog]

According to FinDog, a number one seed with its entire roster healthy losing to an eigth seed doesn't qualify as a major upset.


According to Findog, the 07 Mavericks losing to the 07 Warriors qualifies as a minor upset, not a major upset.



Also, according to FinDog, the only major upset in the history of the league was the last time a number one seed loss to eigth seed. The fact that Dallas lost in a seven game series and had a better record than Seattle did in 1994 is irrelevant.


According to findog, comparing the two series is akin to comparing apples to oranges.



Your homerism is a joke, FinDog.

Getting lessons on bias and homerism from you is like getting lessons from Britney Spears on sobriety and motherhood. I just wish the Mavericks were saving basketball like the Phoenix Suns. We're not as exciting and our nielsen ratings aren't as good. That's all that matters.

[Findog]

What the suns are doing is a travesty.

Hey, don't hate on the Suns. Mike D'Antoni is not only saving basketball, he's saving the mustache!

[mavs>spurs2]

According to Findog, the 07 Mavericks losing to the 07 Warriors qualifies as a minor upset, not a major upset.




According to findog, comparing the two series is akin to comparing apples to oranges.



Getting lessons on bias and homerism from you is like getting lessons from Britney Spears on sobriety and motherhood. I just wish the Mavericks were saving basketball like the Phoenix Suns. We're not as exciting and our nielsen ratings aren't as good. That's all that matters.

:lmao

but..but..RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS CUBAN!

[Mister Sinister]

According to FinDog, a number one seed with its entire roster healthy losing to an eigth seed doesn't qualify as a major upset.

Also, according to FinDog, the only major upset in the history of the league was the last time a number one seed loss to eigth seed. The fact that Dallas lost in a seven game series and had a better record than Seattle did in 1994 is irrelevant.

Your homerism is a joke, FinDog. You should be an attraction in a circus:

"See the Dallas Mavericks fan who thinks his team's infamous defeat was NOT a major upset!"

:lol
If Findog's homerism is a joke, at least it's funny. Yours is the kind that makes people with functioning brains want to kill themselves by bludgeoning themselves to death with a tire iron.

[mavs>spurs2]

da_suns_fan__ is even worse than nashfuck was, but at least he had the sense to calm down and drop the act

[Findog]

If Findog's homerism is a joke, at least it's funny. Yours is the kind that makes people with functioning brains want to kill themselves by bludgeoning themselves to death with a tire iron.

I admit I'm more passionate about defending the Mavericks than some other team, and I'm not letting them off the hook, they failed and came up short in a series they should've won. And da_suns_fan is right on one point, it will go down in history as a major upset. But all anybody looks at is the regular season W-L records. That's doesn't tell the whole story, and when you look at the talent level involved, it's not nearly so shocking what happened.

[Mister Sinister]

I admit I'm more passionate about defending the Mavericks than some other team, and I'm not letting them off the hook, they failed and came up short in a series they should've won. And da_suns_fan is right on one point, it will go down in history as a major upset. But all anybody looks at is the regular season W-L records. That's doesn't tell the whole story, and when you look at the talent level involved, it's not nearly so shocking what happened.
Eh. I wasn't calling you a homer, so much as I was calling da_stupid_fuck a hypocritical moron.

[da_suns_fan__]

According to Findog, the 07 Mavericks losing to the 07 Warriors qualifies as a minor upset, not a major upset.

Cool how youre refering to yourself in the third person. Why don't you tell yourself that no matter who the Warrior's coach is, when the team with the best record in the NBA gets eliminated in the first round by a team who didn't even make the playoffs until the final game of the year, its ALWAYS a major upset!!





According to findog, comparing the two series is akin to comparing apples to oranges.

Really? Lets look at the two series:

1) Same League
2) Same Conference
3) Same seeds
4) Same result

But comparing the two is comparing "apples to oranges"?

The only note-worthy difference is Dallas lost in seven instead of five. :lol

FinDog, under what extraordinary circumstances would it be okay to compare a present day series to the 94 Seattle/Denver series? If the using Dallas/GSW is comparing apples to oranges, then what in God's name would qualify as "apples to apples"?





Getting lessons on bias and homerism from you is like getting lessons from Britney Spears on sobriety and motherhood. I just wish the Mavericks were saving basketball like the Phoenix Suns. We're not as exciting and our nielsen ratings aren't as good. That's all that matters.

Im not sure about neilsen ratings, but its true the Mavericks aren't as exciting as the Suns.

CAN the Suns save basketball? A Phoenix/Boston series would draw interest across the country and rejuvenate a dormant fan base.

Discuss.

[Findog]

Why don't you tell yourself that no matter who the Warrior's coach is, when the team with the best record in the NBA gets eliminated in the first round by a team who didn't even make the playoffs until the final game of the year, its ALWAYS a major upset!!

You can't seem to answer a simple question: Are the Warriors a much better team with Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Jason Richardson and Al Harrington than without? Their regular season record is just not very relevant.








2) Same Conference

This is relevant how? Hey, the Spurs and Grizzlies are both in the same conference. They're exactly the same then!


3) Same seeds

Irrelevant. The talent gap between Dallas and Golden State isn't worth 25 games in the standings. Can you answer a simple question or not? Do the Warriors improve vastly when you add the following four players to their roster: Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington and Jason Richardson? They went 16-3 with their playoff roster intact to make the playoffs. They were one of the best teams in basketball after late February when they finally had the roster Nellie wanted. Can you grasp that?



4) Same result

One is a major upset based on the talent gap between Seattle and Denver, and one is a minor upset given the Warriors made a major trade and their starting backcourt missed 50 games due to injury. I know as a Suns fan tv ratings and regular season W-L records is so important, but in this case, it's simply not very relevant.


But comparing the two is comparing "apples to oranges"?

If you subscribe to logic and reason, the only answer one comes up with is yes.






FinDog, under what extraordinary circumstances would it be okay to compare a present day series to the 94 Seattle/Denver series? If the using Dallas/GSW is comparing apples to oranges, then what in God's name would qualify as "apples to apples"?

The only thing the two series have in common is that a 1 seed lost to an 8 seed. The similarities end there. One is a major upset, the other is a minor upset. They will both be remembered by casual fans the same way we will remember Appalachian State-Michigan, USA-USSR hockey, Jets-Colts Super Bowl III, etc. If you want to argue that's how it will go down in history, I would agree. If you want to argue that David beat Goliath, nothing could be further from the truth. It's more like David's older brother beat Goliath's younger brother.






Im not sure about neilsen ratings, but its true the Mavericks aren't as exciting as the Suns.


Well nobody is. The Suns are like Jesus and the other 29 teams are the Pharisees. The Spurs can have their four titles, the Suns get Slam covers, 4,000 word blow jobs from Bill Simmons and tv ratings. That's the only barometer of success that counts.



CAN the Suns save basketball? A Phoenix/Boston series would draw interest across the country and rejuvenate a dormant fan base.


I would say the Suns have already saved basketball with their awesome superpowers -- Nash's X-Ray vision, Amare's super-strength and Mike D'Antoni's omnipotence. Those guys are so good at what they do, they should retire from basketball and go to work trying to solve Iraq. Every night before I go to bed, I get down on my hands and knees and thank Jesus for sending his only begotten Sun Steve Nash for dying for the sins of the other 29 NBA teams. Forgive us Mike D'Antoni, we know not we what we do when it comes to defense and half-court execution.

[da_suns_fan__]

You can't seem to answer a simple question: Are the Warriors a much better team with Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Jason Richardson and Al Harrington than without? Their regular season record is just not very relevant.

Baron Davis. Stephen Jackson. Jason Richardson. Al Harrington.

:jack

Man...the Spurs got off easy going against Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby and Nene, huh?

And look at the Suns good fortune....they had to go up against the best player in the world, Lamar Odom and a coach who has nine more rings than Don Nelson.

And look at the Jazz! All they had to face was Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady and Shane Battier!

Strange that the "Dream Team" or "Fab Four" of Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Jason Richardson and Al Harrington had virtually no success after dispatching the Mavs. They must have lost their magic the second their series against Dallas ended.


Of course, maybe their victory had more to due with the Mav's collosal meltdown?







This is relevant how? Hey, the Spurs and Grizzlies are both in the same conference. They're exactly the same then!


Irrelevant. The talent gap between Dallas and Golden State isn't worth 25 games in the standings. Can you answer a simple question or not? Do the Warriors improve vastly when you add the following four players to their roster: Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington and Jason Richardson? They went 16-3 with their playoff roster intact to make the playoffs. They were one of the best teams in basketball after late February when they finally had the roster Nellie wanted. Can you grasp that?

I can grasp that Warriors were hot going into the playoffs, but all youre really pointing out is that the Warriors had virtually NO EXPERIENCE playing with each other and they were still able to defeat the Mavs in a seven game series.

The Jazz didn't have too much trouble. Seems to me the most logical explanation is the correct one.




One is a major upset based on the talent gap between Seattle and Denver, and one is a minor upset given the Warriors made a major trade and their starting backcourt missed 50 games due to injury. I know as a Suns fan tv ratings and regular season W-L records is so important, but in this case, it's simply not very relevant.

If you subscribe to logic and reason, the only answer one comes up with is yes.

The only thing the two series have in common is that a 1 seed lost to an 8 seed. The similarities end there. One is a major upset, the other is a minor upset. They will both be remembered by casual fans the same way we will remember Appalachian State-Michigan, USA-USSR hockey, Jets-Colts Super Bowl III, etc. If you want to argue that's how it will go down in history, I would agree. If you want to argue that David beat Goliath, nothing could be further from the truth. It's more like David's older brother beat Goliath's younger brother.



First of all, its a much greater shock when an underdog is able to defeat a favorite in a seven game series. Your hockey/football analogies were one game.

Anything can happen in one game. The fact that Warriors were able to do it FOUR times is what made this upset so shocking.

Secondly, You claim that the talent gap between Seattle in Denver back in 1994 was far and away larger than the gap between Dallas and GSW, but when you look at how each respective underdog performed in the next round, one of these teams was exposed as a fluke while the other vindicated themselves as a team who deserved respect.

1994 Denver Nuggets: Beat Seattle in the first round, lost to the Utah Jazz in seven games:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/1994.html

The talent gap between Seattle and Denver was huge yet the talent-less Nuggets still managed to push the STOCKTON and MALONE Jazz to seven games in the next round?

2007 Warriors: Beat the Mavericks in the first round, lost to the Utah Jazz in five games.

The "DREAM TEAM" was so great they could only manage a single victory againnst a Utah team that stumbled badly into the playoffs and barely managed to make it out of the first round.

What a coincidence that both teams (Nuggets and Warriors) played the Utah Jazz in the second round! Are we STILL comparing "apples to oranges"? :lol



Well nobody is. The Suns are like Jesus and the other 29 teams are the Pharisees. The Spurs can have their four titles, the Suns get Slam covers, 4,000 word blow jobs from Bill Simmons and tv ratings. That's the only barometer of success that counts.


I would say the Suns have already saved basketball with their awesome superpowers -- Nash's X-Ray vision, Amare's super-strength and Mike D'Antoni's omnipotence. Those guys are so good at what they do, they should retire from basketball and go to work trying to solve Iraq. Every night before I go to bed, I get down on my hands and knees and thank Jesus for sending his only begotten Sun Steve Nash for dying for the sins of the other 29 NBA teams. Forgive us Mike D'Antoni, we know not we what we do when it comes to defense and half-court execution.

Good stuff. :toast

Im done with this argument that I've easily won. I can't take too much credit because your attempt to "save face" is just embarrassing.

You notice how none of your Mavs buddies are backing you up? The only guy who's trying to defend your argument is SpursDynasty. Now whats the more logical answer to why this is:

1) SpursDynasty has given up on posting outrageous statements just to see who is dumb enough to respond and has decided to start making insightful comments.

OR

2) Your argument is so stupid the only one who is agreeing with you is SpursDynasty.

Why don't you mull on that for a while. And if you would be so kind, I'd like to see another one of your awkward statements where you attempt to agree with SpursDynasty but NOT TOO MUCH:


"Just a nitpick.....err....I wouldn't go that far....err....."

:lol :lol :lol

[Findog]

Baron Davis. Stephen Jackson. Jason Richardson. Al Harrington.

:jack

Man...the Spurs got off easy going against Carmelo Anthony, Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby and Nene, huh?

And look at the Suns good fortune....they had to go up against the best player in the world, Lamar Odom and a coach who has nine more rings than Don Nelson.

And look at the Jazz! All they had to face was Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady and Shane Battier!

Strange that the "Dream Team" or "Fab Four" of Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, Jason Richardson and Al Harrington had virtually no success after dispatching the Mavs. They must have lost their magic the second their series against Dallas ended.

Once again you completely miss the point, but hey, that's nothing new. The entire premise of your argument is that the Warriors beating the Mavs qualifies as a huge upset solely because of the disparity in regular season records and the seedings. It doesn't address the talent gap between the two teams (which wasn't substantial), or the X's and O's matchups (which favored the Warriors in several areas). An "upset" is when an underdog beats a favorite and the result is a fluke. If Appalachian State plays Michigan 10 times, the Wolverines will win nine times. Ever since the Warriors traded for Baron Davis and paired him in the backcourt with Jason Richardson, they had beaten Dallas six out of seven times coming into that series. And there's no reason to think that the result would be any different if it had been a best of nine, best of 11 series, and so on. Given that the Warriors were better than the Lakers, and better than every Eastern playoff team save Detroit, they were a top ten team heading into the playoffs. Golden State beating Dallas is more akin to a second-round matchup than a classic first-round matchup. I know you're a Suns fan and you can't see past regular season results, but trust me on this, things change in the playoffs. Defense matters and half-court execution matters. I know these are alien concepts if you follow a Mike D'Antoni team.


Of course, maybe their victory had more to due with the Mav's collosal meltdown?

Not really.












Anything can happen in one game. The fact that Warriors were able to do it FOUR times is what made this upset so shocking.

You must not have watched the past seven games between the two teams when the Warriors beat Dallas six times.


Secondly, You claim that the talent gap between Seattle in Denver back in 1994 was far and away larger than the gap between Dallas and GSW, but when you look at how each respective underdog performed in the next round, one of these teams was exposed as a fluke while the other vindicated themselves as a team who deserved respect.

They both lost. Different teams, different talent levels, apples to oranges.






Im done with this argument that I've easily won.

Don't be so modest. You've not only "won" this argument, but you're saving Spurstalk. The other threads you don't post in are boring and the ones you participate in get more pageclicks.




You notice how none of your Mavs buddies are backing you up?

Nobody else cares. It's an old topic. Nobody is backing you either. I personally happen to like the give and take of back and forth and arguing. Nobody bothers to engage you and take you seriously because you're either a troll or you have no acumen for basketball. You've reached the rock bottom where SpursDynasty resides, where everything you say is met with jokes and scorn. Those that have weighed in (ShagiaFrost, exstatic) have weighed in on my side. Not that the popularity of an argument has anything to do with its truth factor. But, hey, you're a Suns fan, popularity is the sole criterion for determining the worth of something.

[Reggie Miller]

I will say this for da_suns_fan. After 6-7 pages in this thread, he did make one valid point. The '94 Nuggets only had to win three games, with the '07 Warriors had to win four.

All that said, the Warriors received two of the best four players from a decent EC team (although the Pacers would have been a lottery team in the WC, even without the trade). One of these players was also a bit of a Mavs-killer when motivated (Jackson). Adding Jackson to a team that was already beating the Mavs on a regular basis does change the picture, considerably.

The Mavs' loss will be known as a major upset, but it shouldn't be. It may even be the second biggest NBA upset, but it's not nearly as dismal as Nuggets/Sonics.

[Findog]

I will say this for da_suns_fan. After 6-7 pages in this thread, he did make one valid point. The '94 Nuggets only had to win three games, with the '07 Warriors had to win four.



Doesn't the fourth win prove the validity that head-to-head Golden State was better than Dallas? If it's true, as dsf pointed out, that anything can happen in one game, such as Appalachian State-Michigan, Jets-Colts, etc, doesn't the fact that Golden State won a best of seven further illustrate their mastery of the Mavericks? In a best of five, the team that loses Game One is under the gun and in a desperate position tactically. The Sonics probably would've won that series if it had been a best-of-seven.

The whole idea is that given a large enough sample size, the better team will emerge. Against the rest of the league, Dallas was better, but Golden State had our number and was better head-to-head.

Not to mention Don Nelson had coached 80% of Dallas' roster and was uniquely aware of their tendencies and weaknesses. Our argument is simply over a matter of degree.

[JMarkJohns]

The Mavericks were better, but the Warriors were their worst matchup. You can be the better team but still be unable to defeat a lesser team because of matchup exploitations.

Nobody had the Nuggets over the Sonics. That Sonics team was stacked. It was a team that took an equally-stacked 92-93 Suns team to seven games just the year prior. Unlike the Nuggets over Sonics, there were plenty of fans/experts picking the Warriors over the Mavericks.

Is it really an upset if some expect and many more say it to happen?

Nuggets over Sonics is the biggest upset I can remember in the NBA. Warriors over Mavericks is an upset, but a much lesser one.

That said, it was an impressive display. The Warriors really did control that series. For an average defensive and average rebounding team to fully dominate a great rebounding and better defensive team did surprise me.

[Reggie Miller]

Doesn't the fourth win prove the validity that head-to-head Golden State was better than Dallas?

Yes. That in turn reinforces the "overall regular season records masked the truth" approach.

I wasn't saying da_suns_fan made a good point, but it was at least a fact cited as proof to a syllogism. That's progress, and I wanted to try a little positive reinforcement. Heaping scorn on the guy isn't making him go away, and I am willing to try reverse psychology at this point. (I guess I just gave it away, huh?)

[Reggie Miller]

Nobody had the Nuggets over the Sonics.

Piling on...

I haven't looked at the records/statistics, but these series were sort of a joke back then. It was typical for the #1 seed to win three in a row. People used to complain: why bother to even have a first round if it was purely a formality and a short series to boot?

In context, it was also a big deal for the Sonics and Karl. Karl had bounced around the globe twice by this point, and if the Sonics had fired him, I do not think he would have ever coached in the NBA again. No one has discussed blowing up the Mavericks and/or firing all of the on-court management as a real possibility. (At least no one who counts.)