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View Full Version : "You kill a dog, you go to jail. You kill a little black boy and nothing happens."



Phil Hellmuth
10-12-2007, 01:45 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071012/ap_on_re_us/boot_camp_death

PANAMA CITY, Fla. - Seven former boot camp guards and a nurse were acquitted Friday of manslaughter in the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit and kicked by the drill instructors in a videotaped altercation.
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The video of a limp Martin Lee Anderson being hit and kicked by the guards after he collapsed while exercising drew protests in the state capital and spelled the end of Florida's system of boot camps for juvenile offenders. Anderson died at a hospital the day after the altercation.

The defendants, however, said they followed the rules at a get-tough facility where young offenders often feigned illness to avoid exercise, and their attorneys said that Anderson died not from rough treatment, but from a previously undiagnosed blood disorder.

Former guard Henry McFadden later said he was relieved that the case was over: "We were innocent all along. We knew this truth would come out," he told Court TV.

The boy's mother, Gina Jones, stormed out of the courtroom after the verdict was read. "I cannot see my son no more. Everybody see their family members. It's wrong," she said, distraught.

Her lawyer, Benjamin Crump, told reporters outside: "You kill a dog, you go to jail. You kill a little black boy and nothing happens."

Anderson's family had long sought a trial, claiming the state tried to cover up the case, and repeatedly sat through the painful video as it played during trial.

The all-white jury took about 90 minutes to decide whether the guards were responsible for the death of Anderson, who was black. The guards, who are white, black and Asian, stood quietly as the judge read the verdicts.

The defendants would have faced up to 30 years in prison had they been convicted of aggravated manslaughter of child. The jury could have convicted them of lesser charges, including child neglect and culpable negligence, but did not.

Aside from hitting Anderson, the guards dragged him around the military-style camp's exercise yard and forced him to inhale ammonia capsules in what they said was an attempt to revive him. The nurse stood by watching.

Defense attorneys argued that the guards properly handled what they thought was a juvenile offender faking illness to avoid exercising on his first day in the camp. He was brought there for violating probation for stealing his grandmother's car and trespassing at a school.

The defense said Anderson's death was unavoidable because he had undiagnosed sickle cell trait, a usually harmless blood disorder that can hinder blood cells' ability to carry oxygen during physical stress.

Prosecutors said the eight defendants neglected the boy by neglecting his medical needs after he collapsed while running laps. They said the defendants suffocated Anderson by covering his mouth and forcing him to inhale ammonia.

"You may not hear anything coming out of that video sound-wise, but that video is screaming to you in a loud, clear voice, it is telling you that these defendants killed Martin Lee Anderson," prosecutor Scott Harmon said in his closing argument.

Anderson died Jan. 6, 2006, when he was taken off life support, a day after the altercation. The case quickly grew and shook up the state's boot camp and law enforcement system amid the boy's family alleging a cover-up.

An initial autopsy by the medical examiner for Bay County found Anderson died of natural causes from sickle cell trait. A second autopsy was ordered and another doctor concluded that the guards suffocated Anderson through their repeated use of ammonia capsules and by covering his mouth.

The death led to the resignation of Florida Department of Law Enforcement chief Guy Tunnell, who established the camp when he was Bay County sheriff.

Then-Gov. Jeb Bush appointed Mark Ober, state attorney for Hillsborough County, as special prosecutor in the case. Bush also scolded Tunnell for exchanging e-mails with current Bay County Sheriff Frank McKeithen, in which he criticized those who questioned the effectiveness of the boot camp concept. He also made light of the protesters in the state capital.

The Legislature agreed to pay Anderson's family $5 million earlier this year to settle civil claims.

E20
10-12-2007, 01:48 PM
He died because of the blood disorder. Did it go undiagonsed? Did the boot-camp know about his sickle-cell? I never knew you could gang bang kids at a boot camp and have them inhale ammonia?


I would ask for more than 5 million.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 01:51 PM
They thought wrong and I feel for the mother.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:00 PM
So if you feed a bunch of chocalote to your dog not knowing the effects if could have on it which would be death, you should go to jail?

Theose people made a mistake in judgement, thinking the kid was faking which would seem to be common in their boot camp. Are they at fault for his blood disorder? No.

I really fucking hate it when people use skin color as a defense when it's not anywhere near important, and that includes you Phil. Highlighting all the racially motivated crap.

Phil Hellmuth
10-12-2007, 02:04 PM
So if you feed a bunch of chocalote to your dog not knowing the effects if could have on it which would be death, you should go to jail?

Theose people made a mistake in judgement, thinking the kid was faking which would seem to be common in their boot camp. Are they at fault for his blood disorder? No.

I really fucking hate it when people use skin color as a defense when it's not anywhere near important, and that includes you Phil. Highlighting all the racially motivated crap.

nice little strawman example on your first paragraph there, i applaud you on that one. (sarcasm)

"they thought he was faking" is a reasonable claim to go by???? GOH. terrible premise. I don't buy it. These guards need to be punished on lesser charges.

12 jurors are white and the victim is black, and you are telling me in this day and age where racism bleeds through this country that I should avoid it? Way to put words in my mouth too... I never directly said anything but just gave the details that there were 12 white jurors and black victim. give me a break.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:07 PM
"they thought he was faking" is a reasonable claim to go by???? GOH. terrible premise. I don't buy it. These guards need to be punished on lesser charges.

It was a fucking accident, I doubt they're murders. Should they be responbile for the kids death, yes, however it was an accident a pure freak accident that relied upon trigger after trigger for it to happen. Do they deserve prison time? No. Fired from their jobs? Yes.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:10 PM
12 jurors are white and the victim is black, and you are telling me in this day and age where racism bleeds through this country that I should avoid it?

Only if you're looking for racism which you clearly are. If it were racism, if the jurors were racist, isn't there more incentive to convict two people of race (asian and black) as opposed to clearing their names? Well, I guess they could have been thoughtful racists...



Way to put words in my mouth too... I never directly said anything but just gave the details that there were 12 white jurors and black victim. give me a break.

You never directly said anything? Really, you need words to communite? No. Your bolding everything that brought into play race and racism was word enough.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:10 PM
It was a fucking accident, I doubt they're murders. Should they be responbile for the kids death, yes, however it was an accident a pure freak accident that relied upon trigger after trigger for it to happen. Do they deserve prison time? No. Fired from their jobs? Yes.

Good point however one could argue that a druink driver uses poor judgement and had no intent to kill or harm anyone and although a tragic accident. Some do go to jail.
They used poor judgement and their actions contributed, in my opinion, to his death.
I'm just saying and yes, I did not hear or see all the evidence.

Phil Hellmuth
10-12-2007, 02:11 PM
It was a fucking accident, I doubt they're murders. Should they be responbile for the kids death, yes, however it was an accident a pure freak accident that relied upon trigger after trigger for it to happen. Do they deserve prison time? No. Fired from their jobs? Yes.


the charge was manslaughter, not murder, hence they are not murderers, but still applicable to the letter of the law given the circumstances.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:12 PM
the charge was manslaughter, not murder, hence they are not murderers, but still applicable to the letter of the law given the circumstances.

I concur.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:12 PM
Good point however one could argue that a druink driver uses poor judgement and had no intent to kill or harm anyone and although a tragic accident. Some do go to jail.p

They go to jail because they break the law which is drinking and driving, then they kill which is a result of their breaking the law. That example is not even the same as the drill instructors.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:15 PM
the charge was manslaughter, not murder, hence they are not murderers, but still applicable to the letter of the law given the circumstances.

It wasn't involuntary manslaughter either. Now answer my question about the racism.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:15 PM
They go to jail because they break the law which is drinking and driving, then they kill which is a result of their breaking the law. That example is not even the same as the drill instructors.

You don't consider manslaughter breaking the law?

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:16 PM
You don't consider manslaughter breaking the law?

What? Are you talking about the drill instructors?

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:18 PM
What? Are you talking about the drill instructors?

Yes. Is not manslaughter against the law?

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:18 PM
But yes, since they were acquitted that must mean they didn't break the law.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:20 PM
Yes. Is not manslaughter against the law?

Of course it is, but what happened in Florida wasn't manslaughter., neither voluntary nor involuntary.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:21 PM
But yes, since they were acquitted that must mean they didn't break the law.

You understand how the law works, right? They are innocent until proven guilty. They were never proven guilty of manslaughter, so guess what, that means they never had that label attached to them.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:21 PM
Of course it is, but what happened in Florida wasn't manslaughter., neither voluntary nor involuntary.

I guess I see it differently. I see it as involuntary. But that is just me.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:22 PM
You understand how the law works, right? They are innocent until proven guilty. They were never proven guilty of manslaughter, so guess what, that means they never had that label attached to them.

O.J. understands that quite well. :p:

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:23 PM
I guess I see it differently. I see it as involuntary. But that is just me.

See it how you want to. But law of the books and basic human sense tells you it wasn't.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:28 PM
See it how you want to. But law of the books and basic human sense tells you it wasn't.

Well my basic human sense tells me that if you beat somebody while they are defenseless it very well could cause serious damage even to the point of causing one's death. But again that is just me. That's how I see it. Please feel free to see it your way which I can understand. I don't agree, but I can understand.

Phil Hellmuth
10-12-2007, 02:29 PM
Only if you're looking for racism which you clearly are. If it were racism, if the jurors were racist, isn't there more incentive to convict two people of race (asian and black) as opposed to clearing their names? Well, I guess they could have been thoughtful racists...




You never directly said anything? Really, you need words to communite? No. Your bolding everything that brought into play race and racism was word enough.


you like to use a lot of your arguments with strawmen reasoning... I really don't like going up against this...

After events such as Jena 6, I think being a little suspicious of the 12 jurors all being white is a reasonable claim.

Oh, Gee!!
10-12-2007, 02:32 PM
The first question you have to ask is whether the defendants caused or significantly contributed to the boy's death.

JoeChalupa
10-12-2007, 02:36 PM
The first question you have to ask is whether the defendants caused or significantly contributed to the boy's death.

It is the answer that matters and apparently all the jurors felt the same way.

Buddy Holly
10-12-2007, 02:38 PM
you like to use a lot of your arguments with strawmen reasoning... I really don't like going up against this...

After events such as Jena 6, I think being a little suspicious of the 12 jurors all being white is a reasonable claim.

Really? So one obviously race motivated act in some small backward town in Louisiana means everyone who has a fair complexion is hiding some type of racist beast within them? Again, if they were, if they felt like being racist, why not throw yellow and black in the slammer?

blizz
10-12-2007, 02:55 PM
Really? So one obviously race motivated act in some small backward town in Louisiana means everyone who has a fair complexion is hiding some type of racist beast within them? Again, if they were, if they felt like being racist, why not throw yellow and black in the slammer?

because the need to get whitey off was greater