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George Gervin's Afro
10-15-2007, 03:36 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,301624,00.html


With Ann Coulter, the Problem is the Message, Not the Messenger
Sunday, October 14, 2007

Susan Estrich
LOS ANGELES — There she goes again.

Ann Coulter would like the whole world to look like the Republican convention: white, Christian, and happy. There would be none of us imperfect Jews there. Only "perfected" ones, which is to say, converts to her faith.

Maybe she was at a different Republican convention than I was, but that’s only a small part of the problem here. Maybe she hasn’t heard about the noose and the Swastika at Columbia University last week, a university chock full of imperfect people, but even that is only a small part of the picture.

The truly terrifying part of Ann’s comments is that she isn’t the only one who thinks that way. In this case, I fear, she’s just saying aloud what a lot of people think. There is at least a mini-revolt against diversity going on in the world, and unless you’re part of the Aryan Republican minority, I mean you.

It’s easy to dismiss Ms. Coulter as an attractive media whore who gets away with saying things no bald, short man could say because she’s tall and blonde. And the reality is that if she weren’t tall and blonde, she wouldn’t get on television to throw the kind of bombs that have made her rich and famous—a point she’s made to me many times.

Every time she has a new book out, she has a new target for her one-liners— the sort that get her attention where the substance of the book (in this case, primarily a compilation of old columns) would not.

Last time, for the hardcover, it was the attack on the 9/11 widows and the claim that liberals were "Godless" and that God was sitting up there, or wherever he sits, rooting for her team over mine.

She got sufficient mileage out of that one to make it to number one on the best-seller list, and to generate at least three books taking her on for injecting religion into politics (mine) and/or not being a real woman (not mine).

It’s easy to say she’s at it again, and dismiss it at that. And to hope that this time, with powerful Jewish organizations taking her on, and powerful Jews in ranking positions in most media organizations (haven’t we been told that the Jews run the media for years?), it’s possible that she may finally have gone too far. Maybe the Jewish groups circulating petitions to keep her off the air will succeed once and for all.

The problem is, it will not make the views she’s spouting disappear. What we need to do is take on the message rather than being satisfied with an attack on the messenger.

The 2000 Republican convention in New York was only a love-in if you happened to be a loved one. For myself, it was plenty scary in another way. I wasn’t scared about the demonstrators, or the threats of violence: there were enough police at every corner, barricades in front of every building, patrols everywhere you looked. To be honest, I’ve rarely felt safer in New York.

No, it was the delegates and participants who spooked me, more than once. Since the 1992 Republican Convention, when I showed up in Houston happily pregnant with my second child, toting my hypodermic needles and little bottles of hormones to prevent miscarriage, I have never forgotten my baseball caps and large sunglasses when attending Republican events. I have learned the importance of hiding.

At that event, I got hit at the baggage claim area, within minutes of my arrival in Houston, by a crowd of mid-western right-to-lifers, who began screaming at me, at the top of their lungs, that I was the baby-killer. I got tagged again when I went looking for some old friends at the Massachusetts Republic Women’s confab, a hotbed of pro-choice sentiment, I later learned, and the sort of place where my arrival only encouraged the protesters to begin screaming and pushing.

I beat a quick exit, headed for the mall, and bought the big hat and even bigger sunglasses that I have worn to Republican events since. For the rest of the week, I never left home without them; in New York in 2004, I had a slightly spiffier version.

We like to think of ourselves as tolerant people. When nooses and swastikas are found inside buildings at Columbia, we express shock and dismay. When Muslims are subjected to blatant discrimination, we shake our heads with concern.

But do we really care?

I can’t even count, any more, how many times I have sat with decent Southern Baptists who tell me they won’t vote for Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon. It’s not that his religion is a threat to them. It’s that he doesn’t believe what they do.

The attitude towards Muslims is even more vicious. Can you blame us for feeling threatened by a religion that labels non-believers as infidels, deserving of death, according to some of the more radical spiritual leaders? We’re supposed to welcome them into our neighborhoods?

I head a story yesterday of a mosque being built in Cologne, Germany, against the wishes of many of the local Christians and Jews, who view it as a direct assault on their religions. You would think that the Germans would be particularly sensitive to any claim of religious intolerance, but in their view, standing up to the Muslims is standing up to religious intolerance. Who’s right?

As a Jew, and a strong supporter of the state of Israel, I greatly appreciate the support Israel has received from members of the religious right in this country. But sometimes I wonder why they care more than so many of our Jewish youngsters: are they as interested in preserving the Holy City as they are in preserving a population large enough to be available for the "rapture" when it comes?

These are things we don’t say out loud. Out loud, we all claim tolerance. But if we truly practiced what we preached there would be no audience for Ann’s rants. You can say many things about Ann Coulter, but the one thing of which I am sure is that she is smart. When she says Jews aren’t perfect, but that white Republicans are, she knows to whom she is speaking. And it ain’t me, that’s for sure.


Here's ray's girl.. nice summation of the nut who thinks that it would be a good idea of not letting women vote.. only white christian men...

Wild Cobra
10-15-2007, 05:43 PM
Love it. If Fox is so biased, why do we find this at Fox?

Maybe they do present both sides?

Think about it people...

ChumpDumper
10-15-2007, 05:47 PM
I thought about it. They have token left-wingers, but their content is largely slanted to the right.

It's not a big deal as long as people don't delude themselves into thinking any media can exist without bias.

Spurminator
10-15-2007, 08:47 PM
Love it. If Fox is so biased, why do we find this at Fox?

Maybe they do present both sides?

Think about it people...


That's the problem. They present SIDES. They throw people on TV to argue opposite partisan views and the sheep who watch follow along, waving the flag for their "team" while our country goes further down the toilet. Yay!

xrayzebra
10-15-2007, 08:50 PM
Susan Estrich says about all that needs to be said.

Wild Cobra
10-16-2007, 04:21 AM
I thought about it. They have token left-wingers, but their content is largely slanted to the right.

It's not a big deal as long as people don't delude themselves into thinking any media can exist without bias.
Well, there's Fox News, and then there's the Fox News Channel. What I have seen of the Fox affiliates themselves, they are your normal city broadcasts that do a better job of being unbiased when it comes to the actual news. I'm sure that might change from one market to another. The Fox News channel is mostly conservative commentary. They do balance it with a touch of the opposing view. Not much, but enough to remind people that there if more than one side.


That's the problem. They present SIDES. They throw people on TV to argue opposite partisan views and the sheep who watch follow along, waving the flag for their "team" while our country goes further down the toilet. Yay!
And for that reason, I seldom watch the Fox News channel over here. If I catch Hannity and Colmes, I like their segments generally, but I don't care for Bill O'Reilly or most the others. Fox and Friends I usually find just like you describe it. For me, what's the point? I liked their comedy The Half Hour News Hour, but that only went about 16 episodes.

Now with what I heard initially of the sound bite with Ann Coulter, I thought she stepped over the line. However, I never heard more than a partial sound bite until recently. Once you hear the entire exchange, it is easy to see she was only speaking from the Christian viewpoint of the Jews not accepting Jesus dying for our sins. Nothing bad about them, but that they are not complete, or 'perfected' yet.

Susan Estrich's article is just another cheap shot at Ann Coulter with no persuasive truth behind it. The only think I agree with her article is that Ann Coulter likes controversy. She is smart in a was to make accurate, honest, meaningful statements that flat out outrage the ignorant among the left.

Ann Coulter You Tube link:

Ann Coulter wants Jews "to be perfected" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wnPHFSdrME)

George Gervin's Afro
10-16-2007, 07:00 AM
Now with what I heard initially of the sound bite with Ann Coulter, I thought she stepped over the line. However, I never heard more than a partial sound bite until recently. Once you hear the entire exchange, it is easy to see she was only speaking from the Christian viewpoint of the Jews not accepting Jesus dying for our sins. Nothing bad about them, but that they are not complete, or 'perfected' yet.


HUH? Didn't you just post quotes out of context on another thread? Now youy are relying on her entire interview to understand her statements. Wow if we only practiced what we preached...

Wild Cobra
10-16-2007, 08:13 AM
HUH? Didn't you just post quotes out of context on another thread? Now youy are relying on her entire interview to understand her statements. Wow if we only practiced what we preached...
Does it take much practice to be such an ass, or does it just come natural for you?

Testing... One... Two... Three... Testing...

The other thread was a quiz... to see if anyone knew from a short quote, with some humor about her political leaning...

Testing...

Beam me up Scotty. There's no intelligent life here.

George Gervin's Afro
10-16-2007, 08:41 AM
Does it take much practice to be such an ass, or does it just come natural for you?

Testing... One... Two... Three... Testing...

The other thread was a quiz... to see if anyone knew from a short quote, with some humor about her political leaning...

Testing...

Beam me up Scotty. There's no intelligent life here.


how do you feel being a hypocrite? I guess I can cherry pick quotes from Republicans and surmise that they are heartless and don't care about anyone but the top 1% income bracket..

Extra Stout
10-16-2007, 08:45 AM
Now with what I heard initially of the sound bite with Ann Coulter, I thought she stepped over the line. However, I never heard more than a partial sound bite until recently. Once you hear the entire exchange, it is easy to see she was only speaking from the Christian viewpoint of the Jews not accepting Jesus dying for our sins. Nothing bad about them, but that they are not complete, or 'perfected' yet.
I think a lot of Christians would love an ideal world where everybody was a Christian, because obviously orthodox Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation, and it would be better if everybody could inherit that promise. While that is a laudable spiritual or evangelistic goal, I don't think I would consider it a political goal, that is, my hope is not in creating a Christian dominion in this world. And I would hope that two thousand years of history teach us that the coercive power of the state is not an effective tool for creating genuine conversions.

I think that's where Coulter screwed up here -- in presenting a nation of only Christians as a political ideal for American society. In a reality where the Republican Party would like to gain some consensus with enough people of diverse backgrounds to create a majority, her message is less than helpful.

I also cringe at the idea of Coulter as some kind of Christian apologist. She has made her career from being quite the mean-spirited attack dog. Call it humor if you like, but for her then to turn around and say, "Oh yeah, I'm a Christian, and in my ideal America, everyone's a Christian, and you Jews haven't been perfected yet," well, she hasn't exactly laid the foundation of having that message received in a loving context, has she? Frankly, I'm embarrassed to have her proclaiming her faith, given her public testimony over the years.

Wild Cobra
10-16-2007, 08:48 AM
how do you feel being a hypocrite? I guess I can cherry pick quotes from Republicans and surmise that they are heartless and don't care about anyone but the top 1% income bracket..
You just don't get it.

Again... Summers showed the quotes in context, and they did not change her meaning to any significant degree.

Again... the thread started with:

"Quiz, Who said the following:"

Are the questoions suppose to be answered within the questions? Give away too much, and it becomes obvious.

Come on now. Think just a little. It shouldn't hurt too much...

George Gervin's Afro
10-16-2007, 08:49 AM
You just don't get it.

Again... Summers showed the quotes in context, and they did not change her meaning to any significant degree.

Again... the thread started with:

"Quiz, Who said the following:"

Are the questoions suppose to be answered within the questions? Give away too much, and it becomes obvious.

Come on now. Think just a little. It shouldn't hurt too much...


:lol

Wild Cobra
10-16-2007, 08:51 AM
Extra Stout;

You and I usually disagree, but at least I understand what you say, and you have stated it in such a way that is respectable.

Nbadan
11-27-2007, 08:34 PM
Perfected: The Ann Coulter Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_2a7Lrl80)

George Gervin's Afro
11-27-2007, 10:07 PM
Perfected: The Ann Coulter Song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ye_2a7Lrl80)


That might be the best youtube video I have ever seen.... :lol

pretty vicious but I can't think of any other person who deserves it more than m-ann coulter...

UV Ray
11-28-2007, 02:20 AM
I thought about it. They have token left-wingers, but their content is largely slanted to the right.

It's not a big deal as long as people don't delude themselves into thinking any media can exist without bias.

I am continually amazed at how many people actually believe that any media can be unbiased.

JoeChalupa
11-28-2007, 09:46 AM
Love it. If Fox is so biased, why do we find this at Fox?

Maybe they do present both sides?

Think about it people...

Ann Coulter IS Fox's side.