Itunes... Plus?

[Kyle Smith]

apparently apple wants us to pay 30 cents more for certian songs now? Anybody even know what the 'plus' does?

[dougp]

Only fools use an iPod and iTunes.

[Leetonidas]

Only fools use an iPod and iTunes.
:lol

Right. iPods kick fucking ass. But fuck buying shit from iTunes.

[drunkendan]

For 30 cents more you are getting 256kbps (higher quality) instead of 128kbps. They are still offering 128kbps for 99 cents though.

[BigBeezie]

I believe the additional fee is because it doesn't have DRM. Though, I'm not positive.

[leemajors]

I believe the additional fee is because it doesn't have DRM. Though, I'm not positive.
ding ding

[drunkendan]

I believe the additional fee is because it doesn't have DRM. Though, I'm not positive.

Yeah that too.

[leemajors]

Apple is actually dropping the price of DRM free songs to 99 cents as well tomorrow, and adding some indie record labels to the catalog.

[dougp]

:lol

Right. iPods kick fucking ass. But fuck buying shit from iTunes.I highly suggest you look into such brands as Creative, iRiver, Cowon and Archos. Creative was around long before Apple decided to get into the digital audio scene - along with the fact that iPods aren't even considered MP3 players because of the fact the files they play natively is AAC.

[leemajors]

I highly suggest you look into such brands as Creative, iRiver, Cowon and Archos. Creative was around long before Apple decided to get into the digital audio scene - along with the fact that iPods aren't even considered MP3 players because of the fact the files they play natively is AAC.
not hyping up the zune anymore?

[dougp]

not hyping up the zune anymore?I've never hyped the Zune, but it is the best mass-market product alternative to the iPod series, now that they're getting a flash based Zune. If you're hardcore into your personal media, people need to look elsewhere besides Apple - proprietary batteries, poor support and a bunch of crap that a consumer shouldn't have to deal with.

While MS support probably isn't as great, Creative support is helpful, and from the other sites I read, so is Cowon. I do know that iRiver is working on a competitive product for the iTouch, and that HTC has a product coming out to compete with the iPhone.

If you're the typical consumer who doesn't give a fuck about getting screwed over in the long run - buy an iPod. About the only good thing the iPod has over anything else is it's playlist support when it comes to recognizing your favorite songs. That's the only thing ... media support - Archos and Cowon own that, sound quality, product support and no need to convert files - Creative owns that market. Microsoft has really stepped up in providing new Zune software, along with providing firmware updates for the Zune 30 with the new 80 functionality.

And if you want dirt cheap, good products - you can always go with the HK fake products that you can get for $50 - nice, cheap players you can not worry about if you break em.

[leemajors]

I've never hyped the Zune, but it is the best mass-market product alternative to the iPod series, now that they're getting a flash based Zune. If you're hardcore into your personal media, people need to look elsewhere besides Apple - proprietary batteries, poor support and a bunch of crap that a consumer shouldn't have to deal with.

While MS support probably isn't as great, Creative support is helpful, and from the other sites I read, so is Cowon. I do know that iRiver is working on a competitive product for the iTouch, and that HTC has a product coming out to compete with the iPhone.

If you're the typical consumer who doesn't give a fuck about getting screwed over in the long run - buy an iPod. About the only good thing the iPod has over anything else is it's playlist support when it comes to recognizing your favorite songs. That's the only thing ... media support - Archos and Cowon own that, sound quality, product support and no need to convert files - Creative owns that market. Microsoft has really stepped up in providing new Zune software, along with providing firmware updates for the Zune 30 with the new 80 functionality.

And if you want dirt cheap, good products - you can always go with the HK fake products that you can get for $50 - nice, cheap players you can not worry about if you break em.
isn't the zune also a closed unit whose battery cannot be replaced without voiding the warranty? Apple is actually rated #1 in overall customer satisfaction and support, and has been for years. i'm not sure how you got so embittered. people don't buy pmp's to use them for 5-10 years.

[dougp]

isn't the zune also a closed unit whose battery cannot be replaced without voiding the warranty? Apple is actually rated #1 in overall customer satisfaction and support, and has been for years. i'm not sure how you got so embittered. people don't buy pmp's to use them for 5-10 years.Most people I know that have iPods aren't very satisfied with them, I'm always having to recommend a different pmp to them. And while they don't use them for 5-10 years, they'd like something that'd last for awhile. And I've never heard battery problems for the Zune like I have for the iPod.

And anyone who's into technology should be completely against the iPod and what it's stood for.

[leemajors]

Most people I know that have iPods aren't very satisfied with them, I'm always having to recommend a different pmp to them. And while they don't use them for 5-10 years, they'd like something that'd last for awhile. And I've never heard battery problems for the Zune like I have for the iPod.

And anyone who's into technology should be completely against the iPod and what it's stood for.
i think they're too busy being completely against microsoft and what it's stood for. the battery problems with iPods were with the 1st and 2nd generation models, and Apple extended the special OOW coverage to every subsequent generation. most iPods do last a while, and Apple customers are, on the whole, very satisfied with their products and their success is perpetuated because of that (which is very good for my stock). i'm pretty into technology - i'll never get rid of my pc in my house (been building them myself for 10+ years) because i can hot swap parts whenever i feel like it - and my iPhone is honestly the coolest phone/toy i have ever had. i really wish valve would hurry up with a free weekend because i'm about to buy et:qw.

[dougp]

i think they're too busy being completely against microsoft and what it's stood for. the battery problems with iPods were with the 1st and 2nd generation models, and Apple extended the special OOW coverage to every subsequent generation. most iPods do last a while, and Apple customers are, on the whole, very satisfied with their products and their success is perpetuated because of that (which is very good for my stock). i'm pretty into technology - i'll never get rid of my pc in my house (been building them myself for 10+ years) because i can hot swap parts whenever i feel like it - and my iPhone is honestly the coolest phone/toy i have ever had. i really wish valve would hurry up with a free weekend because i'm about to buy et:qw.Don't do that! Just get TF2 - it's really worth it man. And while people may be against MS - you have to admit the move they made with the Zune 30 was bad ass. Still, I doubt my stance with Apple will ever change - it's continually molded from the stories I see online and the experiences that people have with their products. You're one of the first truly satisfied people I've met with Apples products - though you can't call yourself a geek since you haven't hacked that iPhone yet. That's another thing that pisses me off - but we won't touch that subject for now! :spin

[TheSanityAnnex]

I never had any problems with my ipod mini, and I love my iphone.

[CuckingFunt]

I've never been a big Apple fan, and almost went with a Creative MP3 player because of that, but I got an iPod instead and absolutely love it.

[dougp]

Haha now you all come out of the woodwork, figures. CF, should have gone with the Creative Zen ... I'm loving mine, or the new Sansa is pretty nice too. *shrug* you win some and you lose some. iTunes is the devil though ...

[CuckingFunt]

Haha now you all come out of the woodwork, figures. CF, should have gone with the Creative Zen ... I'm loving mine, or the new Sansa is pretty nice too. *shrug* you win some and you lose some. iTunes is the devil though ...I liked the Zen when I played with it, but made the decision to go with the iPod based on how much I liked my aunt's and the fact that there are so many more accessories available for the iPod.

[dougp]

I liked the Zen when I played with it, but made the decision to go with the iPod based on how much I liked my aunt's and the fact that there are so many more accessories available for the iPod.How many accesories do you need? Everything you could use is available from Creative.com ... :greedy

[CuckingFunt]

How many accesories do you need? Everything you could use is available from Creative.com ... :greedyThat really wasn't the driving force behind my choice. I did like that there was a whole wall of stuff to choose from -- covers, cables/etc. needed to play it in my car, and a sound dock -- right in the Best Buy waiting to be taken home the same day I bought the iPod, though.

[ShoogarBear]

I bought my niece a MuVo for Christmas about 2-3 years ago. It wasn't cool enough for 5th graders, although she did use it occasionally because it could get FM. Now she has an iPod she uses all the time.

Peer pressure.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I also enjoy my Bose Sound Dock tremendously. Does Bose make a dock for other players or is it only for ipods? That thing sounds amazing.

[leemajors]

Don't do that! Just get TF2 - it's really worth it man. And while people may be against MS - you have to admit the move they made with the Zune 30 was bad ass. Still, I doubt my stance with Apple will ever change - it's continually molded from the stories I see online and the experiences that people have with their products. You're one of the first truly satisfied people I've met with Apples products - though you can't call yourself a geek since you haven't hacked that iPhone yet. That's another thing that pisses me off - but we won't touch that subject for now! :spin
i did hack it, had installer.app running on it for a month. i really didn't use the stuff all that much and restored it to install the new update.

[CuckingFunt]

I also enjoy my Bose Sound Dock tremendously. Does Bose make a dock for other players or is it only for ipods? That thing sounds amazing.As far as I know, just iPods.

That Bose is why my stereo is now in storage, however. Fucking amazing sound.

[leemajors]

Don't do that! Just get TF2 - it's really worth it man. And while people may be against MS - you have to admit the move they made with the Zune 30 was bad ass. Still, I doubt my stance with Apple will ever change - it's continually molded from the stories I see online and the experiences that people have with their products. You're one of the first truly satisfied people I've met with Apples products - though you can't call yourself a geek since you haven't hacked that iPhone yet. That's another thing that pisses me off - but we won't touch that subject for now! :spin
i just think their strategy is stupid. they don't really offer anything different, and they took a year to offer something Apple has been offering for years? - change the GB available slightly - 6 and 12, 40 and 75, whatever. the wireless syncing is ok i guess, i just don't see it being practical for me since i don't change what's on my 80 GB at all. i just add stuff from time to time. they also put a screen on it that's bigger, but offers a lower res? what's with that? if i had the cash i would probably get an archos, those look badass. or a zen, they actually offer something different and technically better.

[TheSanityAnnex]

As far as I know, just iPods.

That Bose is why my stereo is now in storage, however. Fucking amazing sound.I've had mine for years and always wondered why they didn't put a battery of some kind in it to make it portable. Now they are releasing a Bose dock that is portable. I'm fucking pissed.

[CuckingFunt]

I've had mine for years and always wondered why they didn't put a battery of some kind in it to make it portable. Now they are releasing a Bose dock that is portable. I'm fucking pissed.I bought mine in May, and haven't really had a reason to use a battery powered version since then. It would be nice to have the option, though.

I do know someone who got a portable non-Bose dock, though, and that thing sounds like shit.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I bought mine in May, and haven't really had a reason to use a battery powered version since then. It would be nice to have the option, though.

I do know someone who got a portable non-Bose dock, though, and that thing sounds like shit.I'd like the portable bose for the pool or beach or something.

I've yet to hear a decent sounding non-bose dock. I'm still amazed everytime I turn mine on. I'm probably going to pick up Bose's two speaker surround sound for my tv. I just listened to it at Best Buy the other day and they sounded soooooo good.

[CuckingFunt]

I've yet to hear a decent sounding non-bose dock.
The Apple brand dock has really good sound, but it's not quite as good as the Bose. And it's ridiculously fucking huge.

[leemajors]

The Apple brand dock has really good sound, but it's not quite as good as the Bose. And it's ridiculously fucking huge.
i got one of those for free. it does sound pretty good, but not as good as the 12's in my living room, but i was surprised. they got discontinued though.

[Kyle Smith]

thanks, I Spose. Lol didn't mean to start a battle between ipoders and lose... I mean non-ipoders. :P

I have the iphone and an old 40 Gig with no pics or anything. I love em both. I didnt really start buyng songs from itunes till recently. I just dont wanna take any risks with the iphone, which i am using now to post! Hehe

[leemajors]

thanks, I Spose. Lol didn't mean to start a battle between ipoders and lose... I mean non-ipoders. :P

I have the iphone and an old 40 Gig with no pics or anything. I love em both. I didnt really start buyng songs from itunes till recently. I just dont wanna take any risks with the iphone, which i am using now to post! Hehe
you didn't start up anything, enigma and i have been having this discussion across various threads for at least a year now :lol

[Kyle Smith]

you didn't start up anything, enigma and i have been having this discussion across various threads for at least a year now :lol


On good. I an sleep soundly tonight :P

[DarkReign]

I use an iPod, but will never buy songs from iTunes.

[Slomo]

I highly suggest you look into such brands as Creative, iRiver, Cowon and Archos. Creative was around long before Apple decided to get into the digital audio scene - along with the fact that iPods aren't even considered MP3 players because of the fact the files they play natively is AAC.So your saying that ipods convert mp3s into aac on the fly in order to play them? mp3 is as native to ipods as aac and wav are.

Get your facts straight before writing stuff like that (I won't even go into the merit of aac vs. mp3). Aac is the format of itunes because it offers DRM something that is impossible in mp3.

I've had an iPod since they first launched and have never used iTunes. I have ripped all my CDs to mp3 and have a synced database of music in my car, my house and my ipod. Ipods became popular because of their user interface and sound quality - both feature others took years to catch up with.

[dougp]

So your saying that ipods convert mp3s into aac on the fly in order to play them? mp3 is as native to ipods as aac and wav are.

Get your facts straight before writing stuff like that (I won't even go into the merit of aac vs. mp3). Aac is the format of itunes because it offers DRM something that is impossible in mp3.

I've had an iPod since they first launched and have never used iTunes. I have ripped all my CDs to mp3 and have a synced database of music in my car, my house and my ipod. Ipods became popular because of their user interface and sound quality - both feature others took years to catch up with.The interface fuckin sucks, IMO - that's always personal preference. Who gives a shit about DRM - all it can cause is headaches? I thought you were against DRM and the likeness with Vista ... oh well. And sorry, but iPods generally just aren't considered an MP3 player because it generally will do AAC.

Hold on wait - I just noticed you said sound quality. Sorry, but Creative has had better sound quality before iPods were even out - back when the MP3 player world was Diamond vs. Creative. Remember those days?

[Slomo]

The interface fuckin sucks, IMO - that's always personal preference. Who gives a shit about DRM - all it can cause is headaches? I thought you were against DRM and the likeness with Vista ... oh well. And sorry, but iPods generally just aren't considered an MP3 player because it generally will do AAC.

Hold on wait - I just noticed you said sound quality. Sorry, but Creative has had better sound quality before iPods were even out - back when the MP3 player world was Diamond vs. Creative. Remember those days?You said their native format is aac. That means that they only playback aac file, so if you want to play anything else it has to be converted to aac at some point. That's what native means. And that is wrong.
Btw many sounds experts claim that aac is a better compression scheme for audio than mp3. Which is great for the ipod since you have a choice.

Ipods are according to worldwide sales the most popular mp3 player. Which is no surprise since itunes (the main source of aac in the states) wasn't available in other countries until last year - and still isn't for the majority of the world.

I never defended DRM in my life, I only mentioned it as the reason why itunes doesn't do mp3. Reading comprehension my friend.

The UI is very popular, I personally like it, but know many people who don't - again I'm not defending it just saying that's what Apple and others are citing as a reason for the ipods success.

Your kidding right? comparing a 32MB Diamond player that was expendable only with (at the time) hugely expensive memory cards and a battery life of a few hours to the 1st generation of ipods (20GB and between 5-6 hrs of playing time). And no they didn't sound good at all - on speakers or headphones. I don't care what the setup, the sound was very average.

Didn't they comunicate with the PC over a paralell cable? Yeah, that's a nice practical thing to carry around...

I don't remeber the Creative players except that the ones before the ipods did not have a lot of memory. They fixed it later, but too late. Anyways as I said today's choices are much better, but everybody was late reacting to the ipods better specs.

But I get it. You hate the ipods. Fine. But you can't deny that it was/is a nice device and hugely succesful. I'll say as a user that nobody can even come close to the ipod for the following reasons:
- Connectivity: (ipod interfaces exist for a wide range of audio devices)
- Software: both open source and commercial software exists that will allow you to use your ipod music collection in a wide range of applications.

[dougp]

Hmm, to me native is their default audio selection, like most players are MP3, iPods are aac because of iTunes.

We both have different translations of what's being native, that's fine.

As for your comment about MP3 players like Diamond and Creative - they had MP3 players out my freshman year in high school, 96/97 ... iPods weren't released for some time after that. I'll argue that Creative has and will always be better in the sound department ... and if we want to talk about sound quality for compression, what about OGG Vorbis? I haven't entirely researched it recently, but do iPods play them?

[Slomo]

Hmm, to me native is their default audio selection, like most players are MP3, iPods are aac because of iTunes.

We both have different translations of what's being native, that's fine.

As for your comment about MP3 players like Diamond and Creative - they had MP3 players out my freshman year in high school, 96/97 ... iPods weren't released for some time after that. I'll argue that Creative has and will always be better in the sound department ... and if we want to talk about sound quality for compression, what about OGG Vorbis? I haven't entirely researched it recently, but do iPods play them?I like ogg because it's license free but, I rarely used it simply because it is not as widel supported as mp3. I don't use aac for the same reason.

Funny you should ask, because a friend of mine recently showed me a 1st gen ipod with ogg support - but he used some 3rd party firmware (probably messed up it's connectivity to itunes?).

[dougp]

I like ogg because it's license free but, I rarely used it simply because it is not as widel supported as mp3. I don't use aac for the same reason.

Funny you should ask, because a friend of mine recently showed me a 1st gen ipod with ogg support - but he used some 3rd party firmware (probably messed up it's connectivity to itunes?).
Yah, it does ... I like ogg also, but it's not terribly supported. That, and converting an entire collection of music could take quite some time. I like the fact that the Sansa players are getting the custom firmware support from the community.

[leemajors]

isn't FLAC all the rage nowadays?

[Spurminator]

I was just about to mention FLAC... all the good torrents are in FLAC now.

[leemajors]

I was just about to mention FLAC... all the good torrents are in FLAC now.
they're great for beefing up share ratios, that's for sure.

[dougp]

I was just about to mention FLAC... all the good torrents are in FLAC now.
I have no problem gettin 320kbps MP3 torrents ... I rarely see a FLAC torrent, but I've had a few for the more obscure or older CDs I'm looking for.

[leemajors]

I have no problem gettin 320kbps MP3 torrents ... I rarely see a FLAC torrent, but I've had a few for the more obscure or older CDs I'm looking for.
most hard core live show afficianados sniff at anything that isn't FLAC from the sound board.

[Slomo]

Flac is a lossless compression. Which means that it only uses a mathematical algorithm to reduce the size of the file without touching the data itself - like zip. The problem with lossless compression is the fact that the max ratio you can achieve is somewhere around 2:1 which still leaves you with a pretty big file.

As for the afficionados swearing by FLAC it always comes down to how they listen to those high quality files. If they go ahead and burn an audio CD and then listen to that on a high quality player/system I agree FLAC is great (another alternative are really hi quality network players, but they are rare). It has often been my experience that people are just too lazy to do it properly negating all the advantages of FLAC in the process.

Because of my job I owned one of the first super audio CD players that hit the market and imediately purchased a few of my favourite Jazz CDs on super audio. It sounds great! but honestly I so rarely have the time or patience to calm down seat correctly in the speakers' sweet spot and really concentrate on the music (I do it maybe once or twice a year). There's no denying the technology and quality are both great but it is so inpractical that I doubt many really do it properly (I know some do but again they are rare).

And if you don't do it properly then there's no way you can hear/notice the difference between a Super Audio CD and a 192 kbps mp3 - so if you listen to music a lot while doing other things, why not go for the more practical solution?

[leemajors]

Flac is a lossless compression. Which means that it only uses a mathematical algorithm to reduce the size of the file without touching the data itself - like zip. The problem with lossless compression is the fact that the max ratio you can achieve is somewhere around 2:1 which still leaves you with a pretty big file.

As for the afficionados swearing by FLAC it always comes down to how they listen to those high quality files. If they go ahead and burn an audio CD and then listen to that on a high quality player/system I agree FLAC is great (another alternative are really hi quality network players, but they are rare). It has often been my experience that people are just too lazy to do it properly negating all the advantages of FLAC in the process.

Because of my job I owned one of the first super audio CD players that hit the market and imediately purchased a few of my favourite Jazz CDs on super audio. It sounds great! but honestly I so rarely have the time or patience to calm down seat correctly in the speakers' sweet spot and really concentrate on the music (I do it maybe once or twice a year). There's no denying the technology and quality are both great but it is so inpractical that I doubt many really do it properly (I know some do but again they are rare).

And if you don't do it properly then there's no way you can hear/notice the difference between a Super Audio CD and a 192 kbps mp3 - so if you listen to music a lot while doing other things, why not go for the more practical solution?
haha. well, personally the only reason i rip stuff to FLAC is by request at certain forums for bartering purposes. the files are quite large, but if that's what they want to get what i want, why not.