Poor scrubbies

[MajorMike]

First, they had to endure the Marlins winning not one, but two WS, then the DBacks won one, now another recent expansion goes to the WS.

That's ok, wait 'til next year, right scrubbies?

[Melmart1]

:rolleyes

[Extra Stout]

Since the Cubs last won a pennant in 1945, every other National League team, including expansion franchises, has won at least one, except for the Washington Nationals/Montreal Expos. Of the NL teams which existed in 1945 other than the Cubs, none has failed to win fewer than 3 pennants. The next-longest pennant drought behind the Cubs is that of the Pirates, who last won in 1979.

[T Park]

:lol

200 million Free Agents just doesn't buy what it used to.

[K-State Spur]

to be honest, none of their contracts look that bad at this point.

soriano, lilly, and even marquis gave them some production for the money. ramirez got a huge deal, but would have gotten an even bigger one on the open market. floyd was a bust, but he's signed short term.

that's not to say that the cubs shouldn't be worried. they don't have many young guys ready to break through (pie showed next to zero plate discipline). lou seems to prefer washed up veterans over the productive Matt Murton. and - most importantly - the Cubs won 85 games (which likely won't win the division again next year), and its hard to imagine many of their players improving greatly over their numbers last year.

All that said, I don't see any reason to be thrilled about the Cardinals next year either. You're both probably the same .500 clubs, give or take 5 wins depending on luck and injuries.

[MajorMike]

I get Carp Pujols and Izzy back. That is enough to be excited about if you are a Cards fan. Unfortunately, I have no Walt back, and that scares me more than anything.

Looking at big contracts... when was the last titanicly built all star team to win a WS? I don't think you could call the BoSox in 2004 one of those teams, because they weren't really built as a place where all stars went for mega bucks - they were always losing every war to the yanks. It has been SINCE then that they will pay anything and everything. I think the only other team you can put in that category is the scrubs.

[Melmart1]

This is as bad as when Fillmoe talks shit about other teams even though he is a fan of some really awful teams. I give him credit for sticking with his underachieving teams, but for crying out loud, if your team sucks then stop trolling against other teams. That's really all this is, is trolling against a team that actually made the playoffs and its childish and stupid, imho.

[K-State Spur]

I don't think you could call the BoSox in 2004 one of those teams, because they weren't really built as a place where all stars went for mega bucks - they were always losing every war to the yanks. It has been SINCE then that they will pay anything and everything. I think the only other team you can put in that category is the scrubs.

I think it's safe to say that that a team with a 130 million payroll counts as titanically built. Still built smarter than some teams. But the 2004 Red Sox had zero (that's right - zero) homegrown players in their starting line-up. Zero in their starting rotation as well.

They were very smart with picking up players off waivers and trading their own farmhands/veterans for valuable pieces. But they were absolutely built from the outside.

[MajorMike]

Who has homegrown players anymore? That's such a thing of the past. The Cards had none, either. The last successful homegrowners for the Cards were Morris and Drew. Neither were on the 2006 World Champs. I suppose you could call Pujols homegrown - as a 13th round pick.

[Reggie Miller]

to be honest, none of their contracts look that bad at this point.

soriano, lilly, and even marquis gave them some production for the money. ramirez got a huge deal, but would have gotten an even bigger one on the open market. floyd was a bust, but he's signed short term.


Assuming we see the same rate of inflation this offseason, those will be pretty sweet (and movable) contracts by this time next year. I question the Marquis deal, but he performed above expectations this year...

This whole thread is silly. The Tribune Co. never spent a dime on this team until last offseason. Despite having one of the top revenues in the sport, the Cubs were always notoriously cheap. Part of the Cubs' failures can be blamed on McPhail's "smokescreen" strategy. You know, signing guys like Juan Pierre and Jacque Jones instead of rebuilding or spending the necessary dollars on top free agents like Beltran or Furcal.

In other words, the one year they spend some dough and make the postseason is the season that should shame them? Whatever. Cubs fans have more reason than ever to be optimistic: no person or organization could be a worse owner than the Tribune Co. has been. A lot of their deadweight is gone (Baker, McPhail, Pierre, etc.). They play in the weakest division in baseball. They may or may not win their division in 2008, but they aren't going to lose 100 games, either.

[FromWayDowntown]

Who has homegrown players anymore? That's such a thing of the past. The Cards had none, either. The last successful homegrowners for the Cards were Morris and Drew. Neither were on the 2006 World Champs. I suppose you could call Pujols homegrown - as a 13th round pick.

Agreed.

And, by the way, Trot Nixon was a homegrown Red Sox player who was a regular in the starting lineup at playoff time for the 2004 World Series champions.

[K-State Spur]

Assuming we see the same rate of inflation this offseason, those will be pretty sweet (and movable) contracts by this time next year. I question the Marquis deal, but he performed above expectations this year...



I don't think teams will spend as much on pitching this season. And while those deals won't appear as bad in the near future, I don't think they'll ever be viewed as 'sweet' and due to their lengths - they might be tougher to move than you think.

Even with salary inflation, I'm not sure anybody else wants to pay 20 million/year to Soriano when he is 38 and has lost much of his speed and power.

[Reggie Miller]

I don't think teams will spend as much on pitching this season. And while those deals won't appear as bad in the near future, I don't think they'll ever be viewed as 'sweet' and due to their lengths - they might be tougher to move than you think.

Even with salary inflation, I'm not sure anybody else wants to pay 20 million/year to Soriano when he is 38 and has lost much of his speed and power.


Good point. I forgot that the Soriano deal is back-heavy. The real deal-breaker is the length, though. However, if the NL version of Lilly can keep it up, I'd say that his deal and Ramirez's are pretty sweet.

By the way, I'm not a Cubs fan, but a lot of people in my family follow them. My hometown used to be the Tigers' AAA affiliate (Evansville Triplets), so I have stuck with them over the years. I used to watch a lot of Chicago and Atlanta baseball on cable, so I know those NL teams the best, but not real well.

[K-State Spur]

I may be arguing semantics, but I wouldn't say 'sweet' so much as I would say playing to their value.

I don't believe that the Cubs got more than they paid for this past year, but they did get what they paid for (which is more than most of last year's spenders can say).

[T Park]

Well the overpaying for Marquis was already evident when Pinella was so pissed off at him he fucked up his rotation just to stay away from him.

Lilly had a career year, we shall see next year if he matches the production.

Soriano? Is he really worth more money than an Albert Pujols?

We shall see.


I do give props to the Cubs FOR spending the money.


Something the Cardinals could friggen learn from...

[T Park]

This is as bad as when Fillmoe talks shit about other teams even though he is a fan of some really awful teams. I give him credit for sticking with his underachieving teams, but for crying out loud, if your team sucks then stop trolling against other teams. That's really all this is, is trolling against a team that actually made the playoffs and its childish and stupid, imho.

Uh the Cardinals are not an "awful" team.

They were a mediocre team riddled with injuries that turned them into a bad team.

a team that went to the World Series 2 of the last 3 years, and 1 WS title, isn't like Fillmoe's teams.

Sorry.

[Reggie Miller]

I may be arguing semantics, but I wouldn't say 'sweet' so much as I would say playing to their value.

I don't believe that the Cubs got more than they paid for this past year, but they did get what they paid for (which is more than most of last year's spenders can say).

No, you are probably correct, but for the Cubs, "playing to their value" is better than one normally expects.