Top Team Players Since 1980

[YODA]

Was wondering who people think are the top TEAM players of all all time, but I cant really judge players prior to the 80's. Players that made their Team better, not individually, but by working as a team is what im looking for here.Gotta ask yourself, who made their team better by being a team player?

My top 5 are
1. Magic Johnson. I think he raised the level of play of each of his teammates without question, one of the top team players of all time. His leadership is what put him at the top of my list

2. Larry Bird- If people never saw this guy play, its a tragidy. Devotion to team and physical fitness second to known. Let by example, is he did, you had to do it. Vision for teammates was amazing.

3. Tim Duncan- Didnt wanna be a homer, but Tim is somewhat like Larry in that he not a vocal leader, but leads by example. We all know TD sacrifices points and stats in general to win games and that truely makes him a great team player

4. MJ. -Jordan in the later years was one of the best team players of all time. Pippen benifited from MJ's team play the most. When MJ learned that his team could do better when he wasnt scoring 36 points a game was the tunning point for when he became a great team player.

5. Realy lost on who to put here. Hate to say i cant think of anyone else that was a great TEAM player. Manu, D-Rob are two easy homer picks, but others I thought of were John Stockton, Isiah Thomas and Kevin Johnson, but none of these in my opinion deserve to be in the same class as the top 4.


What do you think?

Yoda

[yourcheatinheart]

this guy. http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/meeks4president/nash-2.jpg

[Phenomanul]

this guy. http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/meeks4president/nash-2.jpg


Jason Kidd in his prime >>>>>> Nash's best day.


J-Kidd is at least familiar with a little something called, "DEFENSE".

[ShoogarBear]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "team player", since your list is basically the "best players".

And if you don't think Stockton qualifies, then it's hard to say that Kidd or especially, ugh, Nash deserve to be on the list.

When I think of a team player, I think of a guy who doesn't necessarily rack up stats.
Like Bill Walton (post-MVP days), Robert Horry, Shane Battier, and Bruce Bowen.

[Galileo]

Was wondering who people think are the top TEAM players of all all time, but I cant really judge players prior to the 80's. Players that made their Team better, not individually, but by working as a team is what im looking for here.Gotta ask yourself, who made their team better by being a team player?

My top 5 are
1. Magic Johnson. I think he raised the level of play of each of his teammates without question, one of the top team players of all time. His leadership is what put him at the top of my list

2. Larry Bird- If people never saw this guy play, its a tragidy. Devotion to team and physical fitness second to known. Let by example, is he did, you had to do it. Vision for teammates was amazing.

3. Tim Duncan- Didnt wanna be a homer, but Tim is somewhat like Larry in that he not a vocal leader, but leads by example. We all know TD sacrifices points and stats in general to win games and that truely makes him a great team player

4. MJ. -Jordan in the later years was one of the best team players of all time. Pippen benifited from MJ's team play the most. When MJ learned that his team could do better when he wasnt scoring 36 points a game was the tunning point for when he became a great team player.

5. Realy lost on who to put here. Hate to say i cant think of anyone else that was a great TEAM player. Manu, D-Rob are two easy homer picks, but others I thought of were John Stockton, Isiah Thomas and Kevin Johnson, but none of these in my opinion deserve to be in the same class as the top 4.


What do you think?

Yoda

Tim Duncan is the best. Here is some criteria for good team players:

1) don't make stupid comments to media, don't ask to be traded, don't get arrested, etc.

2) pass the ball, don't care about stats.

3) big men who rebound, pose a low post threat, and block shots on weakside help

4) set lots of picks

Of your five listed above, TIm is easily best on criteria # 3 and # 4.

Magic is best at # 2, then Bird.

All are great at # 1, except maybe Jordan because he had a few scandals.

[SRJ]

I like this topic, though I disagree here and there.


My top 5 are
1. Magic Johnson. I think he raised the level of play of each of his teammates without question, one of the top team players of all time. His leadership is what put him at the top of my list

Magic was a great team guy without a doubt. His individual scoring was down for the first several years of his career while Kareem was still a top-notch scoring threat. As Kareem declined, Magic took up the slack, while still distributing the ball just as he had always done.


2. Larry Bird- If people never saw this guy play, its a tragidy. Devotion to team and physical fitness second to known. Let by example, is he did, you had to do it. Vision for teammates was amazing.

Larry Bird is one of my favorite players ever. He led the team in so many ways - scoring, rebounding, a key defensive play, lobbying the officials, finding the open man, playing big in the biggest games. He also demonstrated, night after night, that basketball skill trumps athletic ability every single time.


3. Tim Duncan- Didnt wanna be a homer, but Tim is somewhat like Larry in that he not a vocal leader, but leads by example. We all know TD sacrifices points and stats in general to win games and that truely makes him a great team player

Tim Duncan, IMO, carries Larry Bird's torch today. He's not the most physically gifted player there is, but he always does what the team needs. Duncan does it with less flair than Larry did, but Duncan is the nerve center of the Spurs - the head of the snake.


4. MJ. -Jordan in the later years was one of the best team players of all time. Pippen benifited from MJ's team play the most. When MJ learned that his team could do better when he wasnt scoring 36 points a game was the tunning point for when he became a great team player.

I don't agree with this. Jordan, even in his later years, was a scoring/shots fanatic. He played largely the same game in 1998 that he did in 1988 with two key differences:

1) Having refined his fadeaway jumper, Jordan went to the rim less than he did as a young player, hence the decline in his FG%
2) His teammates were light-years better than they were in his first five seasons.

You say Pippen benefitted from Jordan - I say it's more the other way around. Before Pippen came around, Jordan was the one guy defenses could key on in playoff games. Jordan never had a consistent teammate to keep defenses honest. But when Pippen came on and developed into the player that he became, it made Jordan that much more potent.

Jordan was an unbelievable talent - at worst, the second best player in NBA history - but his championship success doesn't make him a team guy any more than Kobe Bryant's three championships make him a team guy, though Jordan was definitely more about team than Kobe is.


5. Realy lost on who to put here. Hate to say i cant think of anyone else that was a great TEAM player. Manu, D-Rob are two easy homer picks, but others I thought of were John Stockton, Isiah Thomas and Kevin Johnson, but none of these in my opinion deserve to be in the same class as the top 4.

Stockton definitely should somewhere be on this list. Stockton could have easily been a 20 point guy if Karl Malone wasn't around, but that wasn't Stockton's philosophy. He didn't feel competitve about who got more shots. He didn't complain that he deserved more. He didn't make waves at contract time.

Ditto David Robinson. He was THE MAN until TD came around, and when he was asked to reduce his role on offense, DRob didn't complain. He knew the team would benefit by letting the younger player handle the scoring load - something Patrick Ewing never realized in his career.

Other guys worth mentioning:

Bill Russell - the first defensive player (and to date, only) to function as the centerpiece of a championship team. Russell was not the guy to score points, though he had respectable scoring numbers. But he was the highest-paid Celtic because, as Red Auerbach put it, "He had the most to do with winning".

Bill Walton - what Tim Duncan has been throughout his career, Bill Walton was to the Portland Trail Blazers. His 1977 game six championship clinching statline looks strikingly similar to Duncan's 2003 game six statline: 20 points, 23 rebounds, 7 assists, and 8 blocks. (Duncan went 21, 20, 10, and 8 in game six 2003). Walton was the 1977 NBA Finals MVP and the 1978 NBA MVP, but injuries kept Walton out of the game for several seasons. After two seasons of diminished play in San Diego, Walton joined the Celtics for the 1985-86 season and won the NBA Sixth Man of the Year award, the only former MVP to do so.

Joe Dumars - Isiah was the star of the great Piston teams of the late 80's, but Dumars was the guy who would play whatever role was needed. Dumars was a complement to Isiah whose role grew as Isiah declined, then Dumars played PG effectively in Isiah's absence, all the while playing tough, hard-nosed D.

I'm sure I'm forgetting someone, but these are the guys who come to mind right now. Anyway, good topic.


EDIT - I missed the post-1980 part initially, which is why Russell and Walton are on this list.

[SRJ]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "team player", since your list is basically the "best players".

I took his list to mean "among the elite players". For every Duncan or Bird, there are many more All-Stars who don't feel they need to adjust to the needs of the team.

[YODA]

you know, when i posted this, My intention was to try and find who the top team players were, After looking at my list, Those top 4 players are the also the top 4 players Ive ever seen period. Maybe theres a coralation between winners and team play.

[duncan7721]

I like this topic, though I disagree here and there.




I don't agree with this. Jordan, even in his later years, was a scoring/shots fanatic. He played largely the same game in 1998 that he did in 1988 with two key differences:

1) Having refined his fadeaway jumper, Jordan went to the rim less than he did as a young player, hence the decline in his FG%
2) His teammates were light-years better than they were in his first five seasons.

You say Pippen benefitted from Jordan - I say it's more the other way around. Before Pippen came around, Jordan was the one guy defenses could key on in playoff games. Jordan never had a consistent teammate to keep defenses honest. But when Pippen came on and developed into the player that he became, it made Jordan that much more potent.

Jordan was an unbelievable talent - at worst, the second best player in NBA history - but his championship success doesn't make him a team guy any more than Kobe Bryant's three championships make him a team guy, though Jordan was definitely more about team than Kobe


EDIT - I missed the post-1980 part initially, which is why Russell and Walton are on this list.
I agree about Jordan...i never really saw him as a TEAM player.

[duncan7721]

If you were just talking about best, not team, Chamberlain would be the best. You gotta admit he was quite a team player for somebody who could have just taken it to the hole every time. But he was the first center in nba history to lead the league in assists....i know that assists aren't everything for a team player, but still.

[SequSpur]

MJ and Tony Parker are the best ever.

[SRJ]

If you were just talking about best, not team, Chamberlain would be the best. You gotta admit he was quite a team player for somebody who could have just taken it to the hole every time. But he was the first center in nba history to lead the league in assists....i know that assists aren't everything for a team player, but still.

I'm a huge Chamberlain fan, but he wasn't a team guy - most of the time. However, before the 1966-67 season, Sixers coach Alex Hannum talked to Wilt and said that considering the sort of talent Philly had, that it wouldn't be necessary for Wilt to lead the league - or even the team - in scoring in order to win the championship. Wilt apparently took the message to heart, because the Sixers went 68-13 and won the championship. Wilt's scoring was also down on his other championship team, the 1972 LA Lakers, who went 69-13. Interesting that Chamberlain "only" won two titles, yet those two teams are considered two of the best of all time.

But Chamberlain was strange. He would take his assists obsession to weird heights, refusing to shoot in the fourth quarters of playoff games because he was trying to pad his assist totals. Basically, Chamberlain would play the game a certain way when he felt like it - leading the lead in assists, averaging 50 points, scoring 100 in a game, averaging 48.5 minutes per game, setting a record for FG% (.727) in his last season. It's almost like Wilt was playing a different game sometimes.

[v2freak]

It's Duncan. He not only makes his teammates better in a game; he does it to win and not to pad his stats.

Also, look at how Ginobili and Parker have grown as players.

[yourcheatinheart]

Jason Kidd in his prime >>>>>> Nash's best day.


J-Kidd is at least familiar with a little something called, "DEFENSE".


the fact that nash makes everyone around him fucking all stars highly qualifies him for this discussion. fucking haterade tastes like ass and fuckers like you keep drinking it. ass breath.

[Phenomanul]

the fact that nash makes everyone around him fucking all stars highly qualifies him for this discussion. fucking haterade tastes like ass and fuckers like you keep drinking it. ass breath.

Jason Kidd is a Triple Double Threat any given day, even now while in decline.

So even if I believed that offensively Nash and J-Kidd canceled each other out... Kidd beats him out on defense.

Consider this... as a point guard, he has one of the highest rebounding averages of all-time.

Your childish rebuke only exposes your utter denial. :smokin

I never said Nash wasn't a great player... I just believe that as far as point guards go. Kidd would have to rank higher than Nash. Didn't Kidd lead his teams to back-to-back Finals appearances? :reading Same for Stockton? :reading When Nash makes it to that stage, then you'll have a more convincing argument. :wakeup

[Xylus]

I think Nash could lead a team to the Finals, if he played in the Eastern Conference. A Nash-Marion-Stoudemire trio in the East would go to the Finals almost every year.

[Phenomanul]

They wouldn't have made it past 2004-2005 Detroit or 2006 Miami. Besides that is all speculative anyways.

[ambchang]

the fact that nash makes everyone around him fucking all stars highly qualifies him for this discussion. fucking haterade tastes like ass and fuckers like you keep drinking it. ass breath.
Marion was an all-star before teaming up with Nash, and Stoudemire was averaging 20 ppg before Nash.
Joe Johnson got better stats after he left for Atlanta and became the man, Nowitzki became an MVP after Nash left. Doesn't seem like he was all that amazing in making all-stars around him.
Kidd made Kenyon Martin an all-star (and got him a max contract), then got Mikki Moore his career year when Kidd is all broken down. Made Jim Jackson and Jamal Mashburn what they were (both were then injured, and the three were too stupid to realized what they had), made Chris Gatling an all-star, made Rodney Rogers the 6MoY, made Richard Jefferson what he was, and resurrected Carter's career. I'd say that is a pretty impressive resume.

[ambchang]

BTW, back to topic, Jordan defined the term ballhog before he won. He was a great individual player, no doubt, but as a team player? Pippen, with his 1.8 s sitting out ass, was more of a team player Jordan would ever be.
Kareem was a team player in the sense that he let Magic take over in starting around 87 because he realized who the man was.
On a side note, Ewing was a team player in the sense that he got injured at the right time so that his team could make the finals (who can forget the famous Ewing effect?). Then Carter did him one better, ruining his own reputation and got his ass shipped out so that Bosh could take over. :lol

[whottt]

1. David Robinson
2. Magic Johnson
3. Larry Bird
4. Dr. J
5. Charles Barkley

[Indazone]

1. Magic Johnson. I think he raised the level of play of each of his teammates without question, one of the top team players of all time. His leadership is what put him at the top of my list

2. Larry Bird- If people never saw this guy play, its a tragidy. Devotion to team and physical fitness second to known. Let by example, is he did, you had to do it. Vision for teammates was amazing.

3. Tim Duncan- Didnt wanna be a homer, but Tim is somewhat like Larry in that he not a vocal leader, but leads by example. We all know TD sacrifices points and stats in general to win games and that truely makes him a great team player

4. MJ. -Jordan in the later years was one of the best team players of all time. Pippen benifited from MJ's team play the most. When MJ learned that his team could do better when he wasnt scoring 36 points a game was the tunning point for when he became a great team player.

5. Hakeem Olajuwan

6. Shaquille O'Neil

7. Nash

8. Stockton

9. Barkley

10. Reggie Miller

[stretch]

So even if I believed that offensively Nash and J-Kidd canceled each other out... Kidd beats him out on defense.

Are you kidding? Nash is light years ahead of Kidd offensively. Compare their shooting percentages. Assist numbers. Scoring numbers. Nash in his prime is far superior offensively to Kidd in his prime. Nash is going to go down as one of the greatest offensive PG's in NBA history. No one will ever say that about Kidd. Kidd's percentages are so fucking bad, its not even funny... not to mention he cant shoot for shit, while Nash is one of the best shooters in NBA history.

Kidd is definitely better as an all around player and defender, but I have no idea what the fuck makes you think they cancel each other out offensively. You must be out of your fuckin mind.

[stretch]

Marion was an all-star before teaming up with Nash, and Stoudemire was averaging 20 ppg before Nash.
Joe Johnson got better stats after he left for Atlanta and became the man, Nowitzki became an MVP after Nash left. Doesn't seem like he was all that amazing in making all-stars around him.
Kidd made Kenyon Martin an all-star (and got him a max contract), then got Mikki Moore his career year when Kidd is all broken down. Made Jim Jackson and Jamal Mashburn what they were (both were then injured, and the three were too stupid to realized what they had), made Chris Gatling an all-star, made Rodney Rogers the 6MoY, made Richard Jefferson what he was, and resurrected Carter's career. I'd say that is a pretty impressive resume.
Marion made the all-star team with another good PG running the show, in Stephon Marbury. But Nash has helped him increase his percentages considerably, and he has become a much more efficient player with Nash running the show. Not to mention, the year he was an all-star in 2002, there were not nearly as many impressive Guards/Forwards in the league as there are now. And in the year that Nash came, Amare went from being a good center, to an elite center, and an absolute beast, probably the best interior scorer in the NBA. Nash's mere presence also took a team from having the worst record in the West, to the best record in the West in ONE YEAR. Obviously he had some serious impacts on the team, more than you are willing to give him credit for.

[ShoogarBear]

Actually, you could argue that Scottie Pippen was more a greater "team player" on the court than MJ.

[Phenomanul]

Are you kidding? Nash is light years ahead of Kidd offensively. Compare their shooting percentages. Assist numbers. Scoring numbers. Nash in his prime is far superior offensively to Kidd in his prime. Nash is going to go down as one of the greatest offensive PG's in NBA history. No one will ever say that about Kidd. Kidd's percentages are so fucking bad, its not even funny... not to mention he cant shoot for shit, while Nash is one of the best shooters in NBA history.

Kidd is definitely better as an all around player and defender, but I have no idea what the fuck makes you think they cancel each other out offensively. You must be out of your fuckin mind.

You said it.... Kidd is a better all around player... What was I thinking?

You fail to consider the fact that Nash's game is amplified by D'Antoni's "shoot-away in 7-seconds or less" super offensive style. Kidd never had the benefit of playing in such a system or with those cogs.

Think whatever you may.... but;
Kidd in his prime > Nash in his prime.

[Strike]

this guy. http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/meeks4president/nash-2.jpg

:lmao

No, seriously.

[jaffies]

this guy. http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/meeks4president/nash-2.jpg


Francisco Elson???

[stretch]

You said it.... Kidd is a better all around player... What was I thinking?

You fail to consider the fact that Nash's game is amplified by D'Antoni's "shoot-away in 7-seconds or less" super offensive style. Kidd never had the benefit of playing in such a system or with those cogs.

Think whatever you may.... but;
Kidd in his prime > Nash in his prime.
I had no problem with Kidd being the better all around player. But he isn't even CLOSE to Nash offensively, while you said they were equal, which is insane.

[urunobili]

i can;t believe NONE of y'all have even considering Manu as a top 10 there... kinda weird isn't it? i think you're'all forgetting about all what he did outside the NBA...

[ambchang]

Marion made the all-star team with another good PG running the show, in Stephon Marbury. But Nash has helped him increase his percentages considerably, and he has become a much more efficient player with Nash running the show. Not to mention, the year he was an all-star in 2002, there were not nearly as many impressive Guards/Forwards in the league as there are now. And in the year that Nash came, Amare went from being a good center, to an elite center, and an absolute beast, probably the best interior scorer in the NBA. Nash's mere presence also took a team from having the worst record in the West, to the best record in the West in ONE YEAR. Obviously he had some serious impacts on the team, more than you are willing to give him credit for.

But that doesn’t necessarily support:

the fact that nash makes everyone around him fucking all stars highly qualifies him for this discussion. fucking haterade tastes like ass and fuckers like you keep drinking it. ass breath.

Stephon Marbury is not a good point guard in any way, shape or form. He was a good scoring guard, and now that he is nuts, he isn’t even that anymore.

Nash also left a team and that team improved (your favourite team not to mention). Nash is good, probably one of the top 10 PGs in the history of the game, but I will not rank him above Kidd during their respective primes, including their abilities to make their teammates better.