How sad it must be fore people who actually voted for Bush!

[Duncan]

You poor souls must feel like shit right about now! :lmao

[clambake]

u tell'em bro

[clambake]

come on duncan, give us more.

Go Duncan Go!!!!!!

[Ricardo Romo]

The Bush lovers in this forum (the ones who are still brave enough to admit it) won't be happy until the entire earth explodes in a huge nuclear cloud!

[Nbadan]

he is the MVP!

[ChumpDumper]

This thread is seditious.

[Nbadan]

The Bush lovers in this forum (the ones who are still brave enough to admit it) won't be happy until the entire earth explodes in a huge nuclear cloud!

Hey, Ricardo....how about throwing in a parking garage instead of more rich-kid housing.....

[Duncan]

Finding a true Bush supporter these days is like finding a slim fast drink in Tparks Refrigerator :lmao

[George Gervin's Afro]

Finding a true Bush supporter these days is like finding a slim fast drink in Tparks Refrigerator :lmao


why do you hate america? the troops? the wisdumb of king bush?

[K1NGSFAN]

Just when you think this Tard can't make himself look any worst? he says what he said today. I have never been more ashamed of calling myself and American than I have with this idiot in office!

[DarkReign]

"fore"?

[Hantler]

I voted for Bush and I don't feel like shit. But I do regret it.

[Wild Cobra]

I voted for president Bush as the lesser of two evils. Am I sorry? Hell no!

2000 elections... Al Gore

2004 elections... John Kerry

There was no choice. The other options were far worse.

[Purple Rain]

KARMA?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I voted for president Bush as the lesser of two evils. Am I sorry? Hell no!

2000 elections... Al Gore

2004 elections... John Kerry

There was no choice. The other options were far worse.





Well Yoni has publicly stated that he has no respect for anyone who voted the way you did... he doesn't respect anyone who uses your rationale ro decide on who to vote for..


I have an excellent memory yoni..

[Wild Cobra]

Well Yoni has publicly stated that he has no respect for anyone who voted the way you did... he doesn't respect anyone who uses your rationale ro decide on who to vote for..


I have an excellent memory yoni..
So what? It doesn't matter to me what he thinks. I definitely wasn't going to vote for Gore or Kerry.

If you noticed, Yoni and I agree on more issues that with most other people, but we aren't buddy-buddy either.

What was I suppose to do? Waste my vote like I did voting for Ross Perot? Not vote? Because of Perot getting I think 18% of the vote, we had president Clinton. I will never let my vote detract from the lesser of two evils again.

We need run-off election when a candidate does not get 50% +1 vote or more. Then I will change the way I vote, and vote for who I like best rather than the lesser of two evils.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So what? It doesn't matter to me what he thinks. I definitely wasn't going to vote for Gore or Kerry.

If you noticed, Yoni and I agree on more issues that with most other people, but we aren't buddy-buddy either.

What was I suppose to do? Waste my vote like I did voting for Ross Perot? Not vote? Because of Perot getting I think 18% of the vote, we had president Clinton. I will never let my vote detract from the lesser of two evils again.

We need run-off election when a candidate does not get 50% +1 vote or more. Then I will change the way I vote, and vote for who I like best rather than the lesser of two evils.



Hey I'm on your side on this one. I voted for kerry because he was the lesser of the two evils.. and yoni let me know that he has no repsect for anyone who votes that way. I guess he and his ilk just won't vote this election... which I hope they don't.. :lol

[RandomGuy]

I voted for president Bush as the lesser of two evils. Am I sorry? Hell no!

2000 elections... Al Gore

2004 elections... John Kerry

There was no choice. The other options were far worse.

Gore, for all of his faults, would not have gone into Iraq, and saved us a cool Trillion dollars, thousands of our soldiers' lives, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's lives.

[RandomGuy]

Gore, for all of his faults, would not have gone into Iraq, and saved us a cool Trillion dollars, thousands of our soldiers' lives, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's lives.

Further, it is simply a sad testiment to the effectiveness of right wing propaganda at demonizing people.

"Gore, booga booga!". :depressed

[Hook Dem]

Gore, for all of his faults, would not have gone into Iraq, and saved us a cool Trillion dollars, thousands of our soldiers' lives, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's lives.
And you know this how?????

[Wild Cobra]

Gore, for all of his faults, would not have gone into Iraq, and saved us a cool Trillion dollars, thousands of our soldiers' lives, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's lives.
I agree. We wouldn't be in Iraq if we had a president Gore. We probably wouldn't have gone into Afghanistan either.

I wonder if we would have had other building or US assets attacked by terrorists? No way I could say for sure, but my money would be that we would have. Maybe the Sears Tower, and a few other sky scrapers would fall before president Gore took action?

We wouldn't have had reduced taxed which likely brought our economy to record highs and deficit spending to record lows as a percentage of GNP.

We wouldn't have the prescription Medicare changes, now would we.

What would a president Gore or president Kerry actually be able to accomplish?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I agree. We wouldn't be in Iraq if we had a president Gore. We probably wouldn't have gone into Afghanistan either.

I wonder if we would have had other building or US assets attacked by terrorists? No way I could say for sure, but my money would be that we would have. Maybe the Sears Tower, and a few other sky scrapers would fall before president Gore took action?

We wouldn't have had reduced taxed which likely brought our economy to record highs and deficit spending to record lows as a percentage of GNP.

We wouldn't have the prescription Medicare changes, now would we.

What would a president Gore or president Kerry actually be able to accomplish?


:rolleyes

[RandomGuy]

I agree. We wouldn't be in Iraq if we had a president Gore. We probably wouldn't have gone into Afghanistan either.

I wonder if we would have had other building or US assets attacked by terrorists? No way I could say for sure, but my money would be that we would have. Maybe the Sears Tower, and a few other sky scrapers would fall before president Gore took action?

We wouldn't have had reduced taxed which likely brought our economy to record highs and deficit spending to record lows as a percentage of GNP.

We wouldn't have the prescription Medicare changes, now would we.

What would a president Gore or president Kerry actually be able to accomplish?

I would disagree.

Afghanistan was a slam dunk after 9-11, but it would take a special group of really ignorant and cynical yay-hoos to charge into Iraq, which had zero to do with 9-11.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but the fucktarded way that Iraq has been run leads one to either two conclusions:

1) The administration had no clue about what they were doing
2) It was fucked up deliberately.

[ChumpDumper]

Of course we would have gone into Afghanistan -- the CIA plan that was used in Afghanistan was made during the Clinton administration. Moreover, there is a good chance that something would have been done about Al Qaeda in the time between January 20 and September 11, 2001 other than having underlings bicker about it in deputies' meetings.

[SRJ]

Moreover, there is a good chance that something would have been done about Al Qaeda in the time between January 20 and September 11, 2001 other than having underlings bicker about it in deputies' meetings.

So all Al Gore needed was just a few months more and 9/11 wouldn't have happened? I'm skeptical.

[Yonivore]

Moreover, there is a good chance that something would have been done about Al Qaeda in the time between January 20 and September 11, 2001 other than having underlings bicker about it in deputies' meetings.
Because it was such a high priority for the Clinton/Gore administration during the previous 8 years in office.

There are countless stories about how the Clinton administration "underlings" bickered over the political vs. policy ramifications of any action taken against America's enemies.

So, I would imagine Algore has raised the issue of how hard he fought to get President Clinton to act against al Qaeda during the 1990's, right?

You're full of shit.

[Dude]

Posted by RandomGuy



Gore, for all of his faults, would not have gone into Iraq, and saved us a cool Trillion dollars, thousands of our soldiers' lives, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's lives.


Wow I agree with RandomGuy! Although we still disagree on 9/11.
:smokin

[ChumpDumper]

Because it was such a high priority for the Clinton/Gore administration during the previous 8 years in office.Yes, much higher than in the Bush administration.


There are countless stories about how the Clinton administration "underlings" bickered over the political vs. policy ramifications of any action taken against America's enemies.Actually, the cabinet members bickered over it. It never even reached that level in the Bush administration. They wanted to do things like revive star wars.


So, I would imagine Algore has raised the issue of how hard he fought to get President Clinton to act against al Qaeda during the 1990's, right?I don't know where you are going with this.


You're full of shit.Nope. It's a matter of record. Al Qaeda was a higher priority for the Clinton administration than it was for the Bush administration, and it's a fair bet that status would have been continued in a Gore administration.

If you are going to refute this Yoni, you need to list all the actions the Bush administration took against Al Qaeda from January 20 to September 11, 2001.

I'm waiting.

[ChumpDumper]

So all Al Gore needed was just a few months more and 9/11 wouldn't have happened? I'm skeptical.Seeing as I never said that, there is about which to be skeptical.

Gore may have done something.

Bush did nothing.

This is all I said. I doubt Gore would have done enough to stop 9/11.

[whottt]

The simple fact of the matter is, no matter how much of a failure you think Bush has been as President...he's been better than what the Democracts have had to offer...


You guys actually found a candidate to garner Bush a majority vote in 2004...and for the first time in American history...a candidate who was elected by electoral votes instead of the popular vote...was re-elected.


Usually those guys get voted out on their asses when they run for re-election...yet you guys managed to turn Bush into the first guy to win a majority in many years...not to mention he garnered more votes than any President in history.

Props:tu


It's a takes a true collection of idiots to make an upopular President more popular...


By all means.....keep attacking Bush while managing to offer up even shittier candidates...because it works so well.


Even now...Bush is done...he beat you...he got max terms...and his political career is for all intents and purposes over...


Yet what is the focus of the Democratic Party and Liberals?


Complaining about Bush...

That's all you do.


That is all...
You
Do


That makes you a bitch...and nothing else.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't disagree Gore and Kerry were poor campaigners, but that does nothing to mitigate the absolute failure that is the GW Bush presidency.

Props:tu

[whottt]

I'd vote for Bush over any candidate you guys offering up in this election as well...

And so will the majority of Americans...yet again.


We know you don't like Bush...

He wasn't liked when he got elected, the first time...

Figure it out.

[ChumpDumper]

I know you would vote for Bush.

Props:tu

[whottt]

My dislike of Kerry has nothing to do with his campaigning....



And I voted for Gore in 2000....

Like I said...it took a colossal collection of dumbasses to get me to vote for Bush 2004.

[ChumpDumper]

Props:tu

[whottt]

I know you would vote for Bush.

Props:tu



Props for supporting the party that did more to get Bush elected than I could have on my best day...


Props for that movement...I'm sure Bush thanks god for you every night before he goes to bed...

[ChumpDumper]

Kerry as President? Kind of depends.

For example, his counterterrorism chief would have been the same guy Bush had appointed to the position. How bad could that have been?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure Bush thanks god for you every night before he goes to bed.I'm sure he doesn't, but props for thinking so highly of me:tu

[whottt]

Just to end this debate once and for all....


IF you guys put Charles Manson up against John Kerry? Or any other cut and run candidate?


I gotta go with Chuck.

[whottt]

Kerry as President? Kind of depends.

For example, his counterterrorism chief would have been the same guy Bush had appointed to the position. How bad could that have been?


Least of my worries...


My worries would have which Euro ass Kerry was going to kiss after all his favorites were voted out on theirs...

[ChumpDumper]

Manson wouldn't even have to present his platform on Iraq to get your vote.

Props:tu

[whottt]

Manson wouldn't even have to present his platform on Iraq to get your vote.

Props:tu


Doesn't matter...he's less of a pussy.

[whottt]

for the first time in American history...a candidate who was elected by electoral votes instead of the popular vote...was re-elected.


You think about that for a second...

You think about who was the most responsible for that...

Let met guess...you think it was Bush's winning personality and the popularity of the Iraq war that were responsible for it....

[ChumpDumper]

I already said Kerry was a poor candidate.

And most of the Republicans still didn't know that neoconservatives <> conservatives.

And most voters still thought Saddam was behind 9/11.

[whottt]

I already said Kerry was a poor candidate.

And most of the Republicans still didn't know that neoconservatives <> conservatives.

And most voters still thought Saddam was behind 9/11.


No they didn't dude...

They just liked Bush more than they liked Kerry...

Hint: Antiwars are annoying as shit...


Since that now describes the Democratic Party...

Well, good luck in 08.


Me personally...I'd kill for a non cut and run candidate that doesn't require me to say fuck the environment, fuck population control, and fuck scientiffic advancement...

Too bad the smarter party is the stupider party...

[ChumpDumper]

No they didn't dude...Of course they did.

I'd settle for mere competence this time around.

[smeagol]

For those who elected and reelected Bush,

Props :tu

[whottt]

Why don't you guys see if you can pull Dukakis out of retirement for 08...

Can't be any worse...

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not a Democrat.


Props to competence:tu

[whottt]

For those who elected and reelected Bush,

Props :tu


Props for being from a country that allows you internet access...

Here's hoping you'll still be able to do it 4 years from now :tu

[whottt]

I'm not a Democrat.

Oh yes you are...





Props to competence:tu


Thanks but to be quite honest...it's all relative...


Here's to your improvement :toast

[smeagol]

Here's hoping you'll still be able to do it 4 years from now :tu

Why wouldn't I?

Is the US invading us?

I will recieve you guys as liberators of the stupid politicians who have governed us for 25 years.

[smeagol]

chump is a libertarian, like Yoni

[whottt]

Why wouldn't I?

Because your elected leader is the lapdog of a soon to be Communist Dictator?




Is the US invading us?

No...we already got plenty of cows here.






I will recieve you guys as liberators of the stupid politicians who have governed us for 25 years.

There are levels of stupidity...

Electing someone whose allegiance is to other countries is #1 among them...

Hence Bush>Kerry

[whottt]

chump is a libertarian, like Yoni


If Chump is cut and run he's a Democrat...


And I know he doesn't admit to being cut and run...

He just admits to being anti-Bush...

Which is being cut and run...since Bush was the only cadidate in 04 that wasn't.

[ChumpDumper]

Oh yes you are...Oh no I'm not.







Thanks but to be quite honest...it's all relative...Not at all. Bush is incompetent. Hopefully our next President is not.



Here's to your improvement :toastHere's to your staying your same miserable self.

[whottt]

Oh no I'm not.

Oh yes you are.







Not at all. Bush is incompetent. Hopefully our next President is not.

As if the cut and run let's follow the UN, France and Germany guys are competent...



Here's to your staying your same miserable self.


:lmao


And here's to 4 more years of you bitching about the guy you put in office...because there's nothing miserable about that :tu

[ChumpDumper]

If Chump is cut and run he's a Democrat...


And I know he doesn't admit to being cut and run...Right. I knew we couldn't pull out once we got in.


He just admits to being anti-Bush...

Which is being cut and run...since Bush was the only cadidate in 04 that wasn't.You are assuming I voted for one of the major candidates that year.

Once again, you are wrong.

If we were going to go to Iraq, we needed to do it right.

We didn't, thanks to the incompetent President Bush.

He fucked up. Horribly.

And he keeps fucking things up thanks to people like you.

[whottt]

Right. I knew we couldn't pull out once we got in.

You are assuming I voted for one of the major candidates that year.



Once again, you are wrong.


Ok my bad...you aren't a Democrat...you're irrelevant

:props




If we were going to go to Iraq, we needed to do it right.

It was too late for that the instant we went in...



We didn't, thanks to the incompetent President Bush.

He fucked up. Horribly.

Which was then compounded by the Democratic Party becoming even more incompetent...

I agree, it took a huge fuck up to get Bush re-elected in 04...

Props :tu


The fact that a similar candidate is again going to be the best choice in 08 is even more amazing...

I'd swear...if I didn't know better, I'd think the Republicans were running the Democractic party...it's next to impossible to look bad next to the Republican candidates...but the Democracts keep finding a way to do it.



A guy who needed the electoral vote in 00 won outright in 04...

After getting us into a war, after being a dimplomatic nightmare...

Well done, asswipes.

[smeagol]

Because your elected leader is the lapdog of a soon to be Communist Dictator?

As much as I hate Kirchner (I hate him far more than what I hate W), electing someone who wasted 1 trillion us dollars down the iraq black hole is pretty stupid. I don't care if his oposition was Kerry, Dukakis or Jimbo Carter.

That was stupid. And you guys are supposed to be the First World. We at least have an excuse.

[smeagol]

I'm back to Argentina.

Chau

[ChumpDumper]

It was too late for that the instant we went in...Right. Thanks to Bush's incompetence.

Why are you such a fan of incompetence? Why do you worship incompetence and revel in the deaths of American servicemen and women due to that incompetence? Why are you giving incompetence such mad props and gloating about it?


Well done, asswipes.You voted for him. Well done, asswipe.

[ChumpDumper]

Look, the only guy who made any sense about Iraq in 04 was John McCain, and even he has neutered himself for this next election. Bush consigned us to failure when he gave the order to invade with less than half the force necessary to actually do the job.

[whottt]

Right. Thanks to Bush's incompetence.

Why are you such a fan of incompetence?

Because it's more competent than cutting and running, and devoting your entire political stance to things that can't be changed? No matter how much you bitch about it?




Why do you worship incompetence and revel in the deaths of American servicemen and women due to that incompetence? Why are you giving incompetence such mad props and gloating about it?

You're the one that wants to render their deaths meaningless...not I.


Not to mention the deaths of every Iraqi...

Why do you want to do that Chump?

Why?


Oh I know why...because you hate Bush...

It supercedes every other single political value and opinion you have...


And yet you think I'm the incompetent one...





You voted for him. Well done, asswipe.

Thanks...and I will again, as long as his major opponent is a cut and run guy...

[ChumpDumper]

Because it's more competent than cutting and running, and devoting your entire political stance to things that can't be changed? No matter how much you bitch about it? I haven't done that, so you have no point.


You're the one that wants to render their deaths meaningless...not I.You applaud the fact that many of the deaths were unnecessary and meaningless just to gloat on a message board.



Not to mention the deaths of every Iraqi...You are the one with visions of muslim genocides dancing in your head


Why do you want to do that Chump?

Why?You're rambling now. Try making sense.



Oh I know why...because you hate Bush...I hate him for the damage he has done to this country and the people he has needlessly killed for no reason. You worship him for exactly the same reasons and believe he should be rewarded for it.


And yet you think I'm the incompetent one...No. You are a very competent sociopath. You love death as much as any Islamic extremist, you are just too selfish to put yourself in the line of fire.

[whottt]

Look, the only guy who made any sense about Iraq in 04 was John McCain, and even he has neutered himself for this next election. Bush consigned us to failure when he gave the order to invade with less than half the force necessary to actually do the job.


And it doesn't fucking matter now...

It does not
fucking
matter
now

It will not
matter
in
08
either


It is never going to matter again when it comes to electing a President.







All the Democrats had to do was say...

Bush fucked up, this was a bad war...

But we've absolutely got to finish it now...

Boom...

Any candidate they ran, would have beaten Bush....


Simple really.

Still is actually...which is why I continue to be amazed at the stupidity of the Democratic Party.

[ChumpDumper]

And it doesn't fucking matter now...

It does not
fucking
matter
now

It will not
matter
in
08
either


It is never going to matter again when it comes to electing a President.







All the Democrats had to do was say...

Bush fucked up, this was a bad war...

But we've absolutely got to finish it now...

Boom...

Any candidate they ran, would have beaten Bush....


Simple really.

Still is actually...which is why I continue to be amazed at the stupidity of the Democratic Party.
I don't disagree with that.

[ChumpDumper]

Bush fucked up, this was a bad war... This seems like a first.

I may have to reconsider the sociopath comment.

Get your sig editors ready!

[whottt]

I haven't done that, so you have no point.

You applaud the fact that many of the deaths were unnecessary and meaningless just to gloat on a message board.

Link?






You are the one with visions of muslim genocides dancing in your head


Better them than us...and if us...then they definitely go with us.






You're rambling now. Try making sense.

Sincerely

Me to you, every argument we have had for the last 5 years





I hate him for the damage he has done to this country and the people he has needlessly killed for no reason.

And that hate is so uncontrollable it has made you, and those with your mindset, more incompetent, and less fit to run this country.

A tragedy really...



You worship him for exactly the same reasons and believe he should be rewarded for it.

:yawn






No. You are a very competent sociopath. You love death as much as any Islamic extremist,

True...which is probably why people with my mindset are better off running this country...because we actually understand the nature and danger of the threat. And you? You're just an idiot.




you are just too selfish to put yourself in the line of fire.

No chump...did you try and join after September 11th?

Did you even attempt it?

Hmmm?

Why weren't you there then?

[ChumpDumper]

Bush fucked up, this was a bad war...I'm glad you came around agreeing with me on this after four years. Such a monumental flip-flop should not go unnoticed or unrepeated.

[whottt]

I'm glad you came around agreeing with me on this after four years. Such a monumental flip-flop should not go unnoticed or unrepeated.



Eh....

What part of I'd still vote for Bush over any Democratic Candidate likely to get the nomination don't you get?



Again you miss the entire point...

I don't care if this war was for Oil or not
I don't care if Bush was behind 911 or not
I don't care if it was a bad war or not
I don't care if Bush had noble intentions or not...


You know why?

Because the nature of the Democratic oppostion to this war, does not give me the luxury putting that concern first...



It doesn't change the fact, that we are there now, that the fact that we are there now, can be huge domino in the war against terrorism and permanent change for the better in the mid-east....not to mention a huge stratgic advantage in a war with Iran....


That's the point chump....




See...


You can call Bush stupid all you want...you can post your little ass of in this forum day, after day, after day, that Bush is bad...


But until the opposition actually starts producing a worthwile alternative...

You guys are 10 times the idiots that Bush is...




It's like you're Amare and Bush is Horry...

You fucking idiots.

[whottt]

I'm surprised you didn't latch onto the sociopath agreement...

[ChumpDumper]

I don't really feel the need to argue with you anymore.

You just pulled the biggest 180 in the history of the political forum, probably in all of SpursTalk.

Props:tu

[whottt]

I don't really feel the need to argue with you anymore.

You just pulled the biggest 180 in the history of the political forum, probably in all of SpursTalk.

Props:tu

Well, at least you can win arguments in your own mind...


Meanwhile....good luck with that Bush impeachment...that'll win the war.

[ChumpDumper]

You flipped the mother of all flops.

Again, mad props:tu

[Original Banner]

Chump and Whottt should be on TV!

[whottt]

Chump and Whottt should be on TV!


Chump's definitely got an argument style made for CNN newsblurbs...

And bumperstickers.

[ChumpDumper]

With flip-flopping like that, whottt is much better suited to running for President as a Democrat.

[whottt]

With flip-flopping like that, whottt is much better suited to running for President as a Democrat.


And with reading comprehension like that....it's ironic that you hate Bush.

[clambake]

so, they still won't let you push a broom.

[whottt]

I love how you guys think being anti-war you gives you a free pass not to join...to attack and undermine those that have...

And to call those that support them cowards...




Really bolsters the validity of your anti-war arguments....


Sounds like a case of guilt projection if you ask me....

[whottt]

PS: there are still guys joining....

[ChumpDumper]

I hope they aren't killed needlessly either.

[101A]

No they didn't dude...


Me personally...I'd kill for a non cut and run candidate that doesn't require me to say fuck the environment, fuck population control, and fuck scientiffic advancement...

Too bad the smarter party is the stupider party...Well said.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I love how you guys think being anti-war you gives you a free pass not to join...to attack and undermine those that have...

And to call those that support them cowards...




Really bolsters the validity of your anti-war arguments....


Sounds like a case of guilt projection if you ask me....


Never feel guilty for protesting an unecessary war.. your just another dead ender/ war whore... you and your ilk will be demonized in the run up to the election.. and rightfully so.. your defense of the indenfensable sounds like a big case of guilt projection... if your wrong you supported the needless deaths of 4,000 dead GIs.. of course if had any type of conscience that might bother but hey as long as the gOP keeps winning elections dead GIs are collateral damage..very patriotic of you.. ok you now lecture those of us who never served while in the backround the leading GOP hopefuls haven't either..

[101A]

Never feel guilty for protesting an unecessary war.. your just another dead ender/ war whore... you and your ilk will be demonized in the run up to the election.. and rightfully so.. your defense of the indenfensable sounds like a big case of guilt projection... if your wrong you supported the needless deaths of 4,000 dead GIs.. of course if had any type of conscience that might bother but hey as long as the gOP keeps winning elections dead GIs are collateral damage..very patriotic of you.. ok you now lecture those of us who never served while in the backround the leading GOP hopefuls haven't either..
Except

for

that....

Things are, by all accounts, looking better in Iraq. NPR, of all places, has had THREE positive stories THIS week.

[RandomGuy]

Except

for

that....

Things are, by all accounts, looking better in Iraq. NPR, of all places, has had THREE positive stories THIS week.

It is indeed looking better. I think it is a combination of the fact that they know we are running out of patience, and the fact that they are doing what they should have been doing 4 fucking years ago.

The fact that it took 4 years for the administration to realize that, yes they should have been following the military's own counter-insurgency doctrine, is the entire basis for imposing criminal negligence charges on the administration.

As a vet, the fact that we went into the post-war with NO PLAN either says the administration was negligent or deliberately trying to fuck up, and the deaths of thousands of our troops are directly on those in charge.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Except

for

that....

Things are, by all accounts, looking better in Iraq. NPR, of all places, has had THREE positive stories THIS week.


as has been reported for the last 4 yrs. Now I do hope things are getting better and it seems as though this time it is. However I have learned with this administration that I must wait before deciding if I believe them or not when it comes to news out of Iraq..

Please don't tell me that you believe everything this administartion says at face value? or do you?

[George Gervin's Afro]

It is indeed looking better. I think it is a combination of the fact that they know we are running out of patience, and the fact that they are doing what they should have been doing 4 fucking years ago.

The fact that it took 4 years for the administration to realize that, yes they should have been following the military's own counter-insurgency doctrine, is the entire basis for imposing criminal negligence charges on the administration.

As a vet, the fact that we went into the post-war with NO PLAN either says the administration was negligent or deliberately trying to fuck up, and the deaths of thousands of our troops are directly on those in charge.


This is the point that I am amazed that no one seems to be peeved about. The administration was wrong for starting the war. They had no post war plan and all along they criticized anyone who dared to question them. Now the 14th strategery is working but no one is upset about the ineptness that has caused thousands of GI lives..

[RandomGuy]

This is the point that I am amazed that no one seems to be peeved about. The administration was wrong for starting the war. They had no post war plan and all along they criticized anyone who dared to question them. Now the 14th strategery is working but no one is upset about the ineptness that has caused thousands of GI lives..

Exactly. It is as if the current good (ok, less bad) news is somehow vindication of the last 4 years.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy things are improving.

I will be even happier when this number falls to zero. (http://icasualties.org/oif_a/CasualtyTrends.htm)

But all the post war success doesn't for an instant wash the blood from the hands of this administration

Again, don't get me wrong. I am NOT a "peacenik" or a dove by any stretch of the imagination.

I *am* really pissed off about the level of dipshitted-ness this administration has displayed for the last 4 years and how that has DIRECTLY gotten not only our troops but tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Iraqis killed.

[xrayzebra]

RG, don't you think the dimms could take a little blame for
egging the enemy on with their BS? They have done nothing
but trash our troops, their mission and the administration with
the help of the MSM. You have to admit that it is exceeding
strange to hear the enemy use the dimms own words in their
little propaganda pieces. And urge our citizens to vote for
the dimm-o-craps.

[George Gervin's Afro]

RG, don't you think the dimms could take a little blame for
egging the enemy on with their BS? They have done nothing
but trash our troops, their mission and the administration with
the help of the MSM. You have to admit that it is exceeding
strange to hear the enemy use the dimms own words in their
little propaganda pieces. And urge our citizens to vote for
the dimm-o-craps.


ray now says terrorists are reputable sources... :rolleyes and blaming the dems for the unecessary war and no post war planning?

[George Gervin's Afro]

ray would you consider dick cheney a reputable course? if you do what do you think about these statements


“The notion that we ought to now go to Baghdad and somehow take control of the country strikes me as an extremely serious one in terms of what we’d have to do once we got there. You’d probably have to put some new government in place. It’s not clear what kind of government that would be, how long you’d have to stay. For the U.S. to get involved militarily in determining the outcome of the struggle over who’s going to govern in Iraq strikes me as a classic definition of a quagmire.”

Sounds like the dems today..


[
QUOTE]“Once you got to Iraq and took it over, and took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world and if you take down the central government in Iraq, you can easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off. How many additional dead Americans is Saddam worth? And our judgment was - not very many and I think we got it right.”[/QUOTE]

Wow why does dick cheney hate America? Sounds alot like today's dems..


"Cheney knew sectarian violence was inevitable; he knew it’d be a quagmire; he knew we’d lose international support; and he knew a U.S. occupation would further destabilize the Middle East. Cheney not only did it anyway, he didn’t say anything about his expectations. Just the opposite — he and his close allies said the war would be short, cheap, and easy."

Wow sounds alot like today's dems...

[xrayzebra]

ray now says terrorists are reputable sources... :rolleyes and blaming the dems for the unecessary war and no post war planning?

I said no such thing. I said the enemy uses the Dimms own
words in their propaganda. You need to go back to
school or take some lessons in reading comprehension.
In short, the dimms and the AQ words are interchangeable.

[ChumpDumper]

In short, the dimms and the AQ words are interchangeable.:lmao :lmao :lmao

[xrayzebra]

Notice you don't quote in dimm-o-craps. Guess I could
reference some of their BS. But I cant be bothered. You
know I am right, as usual.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I said no such thing. I said the enemy uses the Dimms own
words in their propaganda. You need to go back to
school or take some lessons in reading comprehension.
In short, the dimms and the AQ words are interchangeable.


well where i come from when you use someone's words to justify your position you imply they are credible..so then if they aren't credible then your point is mute and not credible?

[xrayzebra]

Oh, you know I am credible and right on the mark. You just
cant admit the truth.

[RandomGuy]

RG, don't you think the dimms could take a little blame for
egging the enemy on with their BS? They have done nothing
but trash our troops, their mission and the administration with
the help of the MSM. You have to admit that it is exceeding
strange to hear the enemy use the dimms own words in their
little propaganda pieces. And urge our citizens to vote for
the dimm-o-craps.

Any effect that anti-war statements have on the ground are negligible. If anything the fact that the current debate has gotten so anti-war while the situation on the ground is improving tends to point away from any real effect, i.e. if anti-war speeches are more intense than they have ever been, and that really had an effect on the ground, then one would expect the situation on the ground to worsen as such anti-war speeches got more common.

The Dimms had no responsibility for running post-war Iraq, and no responsibility for deciding on overall strategy or commanders.

Any minor PR gains from democrat misgivings to this war is FAR outweighed by administration incompetence in terms of assigning blame.

(shrugs)

I am all about quantifying things, and proof. You can prove that the Dimms words are used in propaganda, but you can't prove their effectiveness as a propaganda tool.

I CAN make an extremely good case for how inept and incompetant the post war occupation has been.

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry, x. The invasion of Iraq followed Al Qaeda's script for the expansion of terrorism to a T. Bush has been the best recruiter for terra this world has ever known.

[xrayzebra]

Any effect that anti-war statements have on the ground are negligible. If anything the fact that the current debate has gotten so anti-war while the situation on the ground is improving tends to point away from any real effect, i.e. if anti-war speeches are more intense than they have ever been, and that really had an effect on the ground, then one would expect the situation on the ground to worsen as such anti-war speeches got more common.

The Dimms had no responsibility for running post-war Iraq, and no responsibility for deciding on overall strategy or commanders.

Any minor PR gains from democrat misgivings to this war is FAR outweighed by administration incompetence in terms of assigning blame.

(shrugs)

I am all about quantifying things, and proof. You can prove that the Dimms words are used in propaganda, but you can't prove their effectiveness as a propaganda tool.

I CAN make an extremely good case for how inept and incompetant the post war occupation has been.



The Dimms had no responsibility for running post-war Iraq, and no responsibility for deciding on overall strategy or commanders.

Responsibility lies with the Government as a whole.
Although they were not responsible for day to day operations,
they are responsible to be helpful to the administration
and not attempt to "intentionally" hinder the war effort,
don't you agree?


Any minor PR gains from democrat misgivings to this war is FAR outweighed by administration incompetence in terms of assigning blame.

I maintain that it was far more than "Minor PR grains".
I would say that the Democratic party was to the point
of offering aid and comfort to the enemy. That they,
the Democrats were rooting for the AQ to win and
embarrass the Bush administration.

I also maintain that it did give the impression to the
enemy that they had the Democrats on their side and
that the Democrats would assist them in seeing the
Bush administration fail in their efforts to defeat the
AQ.

I take no comfort in saying the above. Because in
saying it I see our country is a very dangerous
situation. Where politics becomes more important
than the safety and security of our nation.
I can already read some of the rebuffs on this statement.
All them negative about Bush and his administration.
Which I have no time for. We are in a war and the
Congress did support the President in taking us into
this war. They were not tricked and if they were, then
one them has no business being President, because
she can be hoodwinked. Congress gets briefings from
our intelligence people just like the President and
nothing is held back, regardless of what people say.

[whottt]

Never feel guilty for protesting an unecessary war..

False....

Feel incredibly stupid for protesting this war....because we can't cut and run.




your just another dead ender/ war whore... you and your ilk will be demonized in the run up to the election.. and rightfully so..


Oh shut the fuck up...you're just another propaganda whore, who is a bigot at heart, and I think my guilt projection statement was dead on which is why you got defensive...


On top of that...you are easily one of the three stupidest posters on this forum.

You're a walking talking CNN Newsblurb....and a stupid one at that.





your defense of the indenfensable sounds like a big case of guilt projection...

Indefensable?

Iraq was in violation of a cease fire agreement...


And you continue to parrot those that are too stupid to understand what that means.





if your wrong you supported the needless deaths of 4,000 dead GIs..

#1. That is an incredibly small total for an invasion and overthrow of an entrenched military dictator.

#2. The only thing that renders their deaths meaningless...will be pulling out of Iraq. Something you crave at the hearts of your stupid and bigoted soul...





of course if had any type of conscience that might bother but hey as long as the gOP keeps winning elections dead GIs are collateral damage..very patriotic of you.. ok you now lecture those of us who never served while in the backround the leading GOP hopefuls haven't either..


Does not matter you idiot....
The most important thing is that a shitty mid-east leader is gone, that representative government can be installed in a mid-east country...

I know you don't care about that....because you're too fucking stupid realize how important it is....but that doesn't make it any less important.


And you contribute absolutely nothing to that goal...

[whottt]

FWIW...

I don't feel a shred of guilt over supporting this war...

You know why?

Because I wasn't in favor of the invasion in the first place....


And even I was? It's still a valuable front in the longterm battle against the causes of terrorism.

So while I wasn't in favor of the initial invasion...


I always understood that:

A. Saddam needed to go.

B. We had legal recourse to go into Iraq...WMD or not. Al-Qaeda or not. Oil or not.

You idiots...we had legal recourse to go into Iraq. WMD or not.....Al Qaeda or not. Oil or not.

We had legal recourse to go into Iraq. WMD or not. Al Qaeda or not. Oil or not.


C. That Iraq was always part of much bigger plan...

A plant for strategic position against Iran and Syria...for war, for political pressure against every shitty leader in the mid-east, for nuclear pressure....a plan to increase our presence in the middle east...


D. Protesting it wasn't going to do any good. It was going to more harm than good.




You guys are focused on Oil and WMD too much...and too ignorant of the fact that the middle east is a shithole where leaders stay in power through brute force, and little else, and that is the true cause of terrorism..and they are a threat to us.


There was nothing illegal about this war...

That's what you idiots don't get.






So all of it doesn't matter to me, about WMD, about whether or not Al-Qaeda was in Iraq...all that matters, is that becomes a better situation.

And the only way that doesn't happen...is if we pull out.


That's the only way...and if you support an immediate pull out, you support every shitty inhumane leader in the Middle East....and the ultimate cause of terrorism....not to mention those that are shooting our soldiers...


Our volunteer soldiers...you know, that are still joining...while you protest because hey...it was cool in the sixties...idiots.


And instead of coming up with a better candidate and way to win this war...

You idiots have done nothing but attack Bush...when it does absolutely no good.

[RandomGuy]

The fact that we had no orders for armored humvees, nor any real program for ensuring all the troops had enough body armor. Both of those were instituted only AFTER the we had been there for almost a year with no sign of the unexpected insurgency going away. I say unexpected on the part of the administration. Those of us with any topical knowledge knew otherwise.

Negligent reconstruction planning. I use this word very deliberately. I think this administration is criminally negligent in the planning of this occupation. I blame this incompetence for 80%+ of all the dead service members and it angers me beyond words.

Cases in point:
#1 Iraqi health care.
Original guy was an actual doctor with experience in running health care in war zones like Somalia and Kosovo.
He was replaced with (surprise!) a political hack who, instead of trying to increase access to health care, spent more time on trying out ideas on drug purchase plans than actually delivering health care. The political hack used Iraq as an experiment on how to set up a system of drug purchase and delivery and completely failed in delivering things like basic sanitation and simple care for wounded.

Second case:
Industrial privitization.
To meet ideological ends, the neocons decided to privatize all the factories in Iraq.

To do this they gave the job to three Americans with some business experience. After the first few months of deteriorating conditions in terms of things breaking and not getting fixed, and slowing productivity, these three guys decided that they needed some help, and brought in the main German guys responsible for assimilating the East German factories into the private enterprise system.

The Germans came in and met with the Americans, and started telling them what needed to happen. The conversation went something like this:


Germans: "It is very good to meet you, but you should have brought your staff with you. Regardless, let's get started, you need to get your staff to do X, Y, and Z, and then..."


Americans: "But we don't have any staff, it is just us three..."

Germans (flabbergasted): "We thought you were the leaders of the program, not the whole program. It took 6,000 administrators, engineers, technicians, accountants and others to get all the east german factories up to speed."

Americans: "Sorry, it is just us"

Germans: "You have wasted our time. The job you have been given is impossible given the resources given. We can't do anything to help you, sorry"

End result:

The factories eventually deteriorated so far because of lack of spare parts and raw materials that Iraqis stopped showing up, futher adding to the unemployment fueling the insurgency.

The list goes on, just browse through the many books chronicling this "fiasco".

This administration tried for cheap and easy political points, and got way more than it bargained for. I think the rabid Bush supporters will say this is simply more "far left" cynicism, but it is my best hypothesis, based on this administration's proven behavior and available evidence.



If you aren't appalled, you haven't been paying attention.

[whottt]

What are you Eintsteins going to do in 08?

Congratulate yourselves when Bush doesn't get re-elected?

He's not going to be impeached or prosecuted.

He wasn't going to go down as a popular President anyway, none of the guys to get in without winning the popular vote are...he's going to be more popular than he was, because you idiots got him re-elected...he's also going to be more remembered because of that....

And in 20 years intellectuals will debate the merits of his decision to invade Iraq...and those seeking to separate themselves from the common knowledge will claim it was the key moment...


Me? I'll be celebrating the fact that I finally got a guy who will enact the foreign policy I wanted in the first place...

A guy who is simply going to say...

If a nuclear bomb of any kind is set off in the United States...I am going to nuke Mecca...or Iran.


And when he says it? He'll be believed.

And then he's going to get Usama..




That's what I always wanted...

Because it'll work...just like similar threats work for every leader in the ME.




Meanwhile...you idiots have fun at the party celebrating Bush's failure to be elected for a third term...

God knows, you deserve to celebrate that...

[whottt]

The fact that we had no orders for armored humvees, nor any real program for ensuring all the troops had enough body armor. Both of those were instituted only AFTER the we had been there for almost a year with no sign of the unexpected insurgency going away. I say unexpected on the part of the administration. Those of us with any topical knowledge knew otherwise.

Negligent reconstruction planning. I use this word very deliberately. I think this administration is criminally negligent in the planning of this occupation. I blame this incompetence for 80%+ of all the dead service members and it angers me beyond words.

Cases in point:
#1 Iraqi health care.
Original guy was an actual doctor with experience in running health care in war zones like Somalia and Kosovo.
He was replaced with (surprise!) a political hack who, instead of trying to increase access to health care, spent more time on trying out ideas on drug purchase plans than actually delivering health care. The political hack used Iraq as an experiment on how to set up a system of drug purchase and delivery and completely failed in delivering things like basic sanitation and simple care for wounded.

Second case:
Industrial privitization.
To meet ideological ends, the neocons decided to privatize all the factories in Iraq.

To do this they gave the job to three Americans with some business experience. After the first few months of deteriorating conditions in terms of things breaking and not getting fixed, and slowing productivity, these three guys decided that they needed some help, and brought in the main German guys responsible for assimilating the East German factories into the private enterprise system.

The Germans came in and met with the Americans, and started telling them what needed to happen. The conversation went something like this:


Germans: "It is very good to meet you, but you should have brought your staff with you. Regardless, let's get started, you need to get your staff to do X, Y, and Z, and then..."


Americans: "But we don't have any staff, it is just us three..."

Germans (flabbergasted): "We thought you were the leaders of the program, not the whole program. It took 6,000 administrators, engineers, technicians, accountants and others to get all the east german factories up to speed."

Americans: "Sorry, it is just us"

Germans: "You have wasted our time. The job you have been given is impossible given the resources given. We can't do anything to help you, sorry"

End result:

The factories eventually deteriorated so far because of lack of spare parts and raw materials that Iraqis stopped showing up, futher adding to the unemployment fueling the insurgency.

The list goes on, just browse through the many books chronicling this "fiasco".

This administration tried for cheap and easy political points, and got way more than it bargained for. I think the rabid Bush supporters will say this is simply more "far left" cynicism, but it is my best hypothesis, based on this administration's proven behavior and available evidence.



If you aren't appalled, you haven't been paying attention.


Sadly...you guys failed to offer a better alternative.


And you continue to do so.


Even more sadly...the decision to sell out America, and success in the ME, by politicizing this war for political gain...failed. And it's going to fail again...

[RandomGuy]

Sadly...you guys failed to offer a better alternative.

And you continue to do so.

Even more sadly...the decision to sell out America, and success in the ME, by politicizing this war for political gain...failed. And it's going to fail again...

(shrugs)

This war was started for political gain and cheap points. Can you really blame the Dems for doing the same thing that Bush did when he started the war?

[xrayzebra]

(shrugs)

This war was started for political gain and cheap points. Can you really blame the Dems for doing the same thing that Bush did when he started the war?

RG, you are so very, very wrong. Really you are.

[ChumpDumper]

The Iraq war was started by a mix of neocon fantasy, cowboy bravado and impotent rage. I won't forget that, nor should it be forgotten.

[xrayzebra]

The Iraq war was started by a mix of neocon fantasy, cowboy bravado and impotent rage. I won't forget that, nor should it be forgotten.

And opposed by those that have no idea of what we are
fighting or the enemies we face. Or just plain hate Bush.

[ChumpDumper]

And opposed by those that have no idea of what we are
fighting or the enemies we face.Nah, we knew exactly who the real enemies threatening the US were. Bush distracted us from them by invading Iraq.
Or just plain hate Bush.I hate Bush because he has been completely incompetent in the execution of an unnecessary war.

[xrayzebra]

Nah, we knew exactly who the real enemies threatening the US were. Bush distracted us from them by invading Iraq.I hate Bush because he has been completely incompetent in the execution of an unnecessary war.

An example of what I said. Hate Bush.

[Oh, Gee!!]

The Iraq war was started by a mix of neocon fantasy, cowboy bravado and impotent rage. I won't forget that, nor should it be forgotten.


but if it ends well, it was all worth it.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Iraq Will Never Attack Us Again!!! Thanks To People Like Ray, Yoni And Bush..!

[xrayzebra]

Iraq Will Never Attack Us Again!!! Thanks To People Like Ray, Yoni And Bush..!

I don't think you every heard any of us say they did
attack us. Live in ignorance. For goodness sake
don't bother to really find out the facts.

[Yonivore]

Iraq Will Never Attack Us Again!!! Thanks To People Like Ray, Yoni And Bush..!
Amen to that!

Iraq also won't be providing material support to terrorists any longer.

[Yonivore]

I don't think you every heard any of us say they did
attack us. Live in ignorance. For goodness sake
don't bother to really find out the facts.
Sure they did. They shot at U. S. Military assets hundreds of times between the end of the first Gulf War and the March 2003 invasion.

[ChumpDumper]

Sure they did. They shot at U. S. Military assets hundreds of times between the end of the first Gulf War and the March 2003 invasion.Thanks for reminding us that Iraq was under our military thumb for 12 years. :tu

[xrayzebra]

Thanks for reminding us that Iraq was under our military thumb for 12 years. :tu

At the behest of the U.N. Your favorite organization.

Actually yoni, I hadn't thought of that. But you are
correct. I think you could also consider his aid to the
terrorist, you know the 25 grand he gave to families who
blew themselves up. And some still do not want to
acknowledge the the training camps set up in Iraq.
And I am still trying to figure out why he was working
on dispersal methods of WMD when he didn't have
any. Maybe Chump could help us out there...

[ChumpDumper]

At the behest of the U.N.Untrue.


Actually yoni, I hadn't thought of that. But you are
correct. I think you could also consider his aid to the
terrorist, you know the 25 grand he gave to families who
blew themselves up. And some still do not want to
acknowledge the the training camps set up in Iraq.
And I am still trying to figure out why he was working
on dispersal methods of WMD when he didn't have
any. Maybe Chump could help us out there...Maybe you could help us out with the WMD stockpiles.

[RandomGuy]

RG, you are so very, very wrong. Really you are.

It wasn't started because of WMD's despite the administration spin to the contrary. The intel guys were told to go and find the evidence to support that thesis, and the shaky stuff they found was held up in front of the world as proof.

Cheney, in defending the decision not to go in after gulf war 1 said that Iraq would be a quagmire, and a violent bloodbath that could threaten regional stability if we toppled Saddam.

Then, 10 years later he says "we will be greeted as liberators".

This administration knew what was going to happen and suckered you into believing them.

You can't tell me that you think the post-invasion period was run competantly by people who didn't even have passports, can you?

[RandomGuy]

I would not want to admit I was wrong, either, so I understand you have to go through the motions of defending this ass-hat.

That's ok, I still love ya. At least you are supporting the right basketball team. ;)

[Walter Craparita]

Gore.

Kerry.


I can't sleep at night :lol :lol :lol

[George Gervin's Afro]

Gore.

Kerry.


I can't sleep at night :lol :lol :lol


1 less unecessary war. I am sure there are thousands of families who don't sleep well anymore because of it. I guess you think that's funny also...

[Yonivore]

Thanks for reminding us that Iraq was under our military thumb for 12 years.
Only North and South of the no-fly zones. Saddam Hussein had the entire middle section of Iraq, including a porous border with Syria and Salman Pak terrorist training facility to play with.

Thanks to Congressman Church and Bill Clinton's emasculation of the Intelligence mechanism, we had few resources in those areas where our military assets were not allowed.

[clambake]

the intelligence mechanism under bush was used to fabricate evidence for war. too bad he ignored legitimate warnings about the security of the US.

But, what do you care. you've already claimed victory in Iraq how many times? what do you care about a supposed resolution that you claim will harm an already supposed victory?

you just owned yourself. congrats

[ballhog]

Who else would you have voted for....Gore? Please.

[mouse]

Who else would you have voted for....Gore? Please.

At least he has a Nobel peace prize what does Bush have? Al Gore can't save the planet but at least he is not trying to destroy it like your Daddy Bush



http://www.drmartinlutherkingjr.com/nobelpeaceprize.jpg

[xrayzebra]

At least he has a Nobel peace prize what does Bush have? Al Gore can't save the planet but at least he is not trying to destroy it like your Daddy Bush



http://www.drmartinlutherkingjr.com/nobelpeaceprize.jpg


Mouse, this is so easy. Bush has integrity. Gore has the
internet to display his Nobel Prize on.

Oh, did you know Rush Limbaugh was nominated?

[ChumpDumper]

Only North and South of the no-fly zones. Saddam Hussein had the entire middle section of Iraq, including a porous border with Syria and Salman Pak terrorist training facility to play with.Yeah, and we could just lob cruise missiles and bomb any place we didn't normally patrol. Shit, Desert Fox almost toppled the regime by itself in 1998. That's how weak Saddam actually was.


Thanks to Congressman Church and Bill Clinton's emasculation of the Intelligence mechanism, we had few resources in those areas where our military assets were not allowed.Bush proved he didn't need good intel to go to war. Just fear mongering and lies.

[Yonivore]

http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/06/2007-06-16YasserArafat.jpg
Guess what he's holding.

[RandomGuy]

http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/06/2007-06-16YasserArafat.jpg
Guess what he's holding.

Something that Bush will never win?

[RandomGuy]

If the Bush administration knew what it was going to get into when it invaded Iraq, why did our troops have to weld scrap steel onto their Humvees for years?

Why did we not have the requisitions and orders for enough body armor in place BEFORE we went in?

I knew what was going to happen, Cheney knew what was going to happen, but none of the shit that a responsible, competant administration should do was done.

THAT IS NEGLIGENCE, AND NEGLIGENCE WITH OUR TROOPS IS UNCONSCIONABLE.

[xrayzebra]

RG, why did our troops have to make modifications on our tanks
during WWII to get through the hedge rows.

Come on, stuff happens and it isn't negligence. The military
designed this equipment. Cheney didn't.

[George Gervin's Afro]

RG, why did our troops have to make modifications on our tanks
during WWII to get through the hedge rows.

Come on, stuff happens and it isn't negligence. The military
designed this equipment. Cheney didn't.


"we go with the army we have rather than the army that we want" dummy rumslfed's response to a GIs question concerning the lack of body armor..

[ChumpDumper]

The armor for Humvees was already designed. Your analogy doesn't work.

[Yonivore]

"we go with the army we have rather than the army that we want" dummy rumslfed's response to a GIs question concerning the lack of body armor..
If you're going to quote someone, it'd be nice if you'd quote them accurately.


"you go to war with the army you have, not army you might want or wish to have at a later time."
The enemy doesn't wait for you to get prepared. Nor do they follow your war plan.

[clambake]

If you're going to quote someone, it'd be nice if you'd quote them accurately.


The enemy doesn't wait for you to get prepared. Nor do they follow your war plan.
they weren't waiting? gee, i'm pretty sure they waited. i'm pretty sure everyone knew they were waiting. where would they go? we already had them in a box. in a box we put them in over a decade ago. so that's a bad analogy yoni

[George Gervin's Afro]

If you're going to quote someone, it'd be nice if you'd quote them accurately.


The enemy doesn't wait for you to get prepared. Nor do they follow your war plan.


Iraq was not going anywhere. In fact the insurgency started after we got there.. so we went in before we had the proper protection.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

What evidence existed that Iraq was going to attack us?

They were waiting, that's all they were going to do as far as the US was concerned.

[Yonivore]

Iraq was not going anywhere. In fact the insurgency started after we got there.. so we went in before we had the proper protection.
Where was Musab al Zarqawi in March of 2003?

Where were his al Qaeda followers?

Why were they there?

Iraq was, indeed, going somewhere. We nipped it in the bud.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

We had Saddam Hussein available for questioning and waterboarding for six months.

If there was any link to Al Qaeda, we would have gotten it from Hussein himself.

Oh yeah -- they're still translating the documents.... :rolleyes

[Nbadan]

...Well,....the documents are actually buried with the WMD in the desert, that is, the ones Saddam didn't have sent to Syria! (right under our 24-7 satellite survelience!!)

:rolleyes

[Yonivore]

...Well,....the documents are actually buried with the WMD in the desert, that is, the ones Saddam didn't have sent to Syria! (right under our 24-7 satellite survelience!!)

:rolleyes
Another person that doesn't understand how satellite surveillance works.

[xrayzebra]

...Well,....the documents are actually buried with the WMD in the desert, that is, the ones Saddam didn't have sent to Syria! (right under our 24-7 satellite survelience!!)

:rolleyes

No I think they were in building 7. That is the reason it
was blown up.