"Wyatt Earp" or "Tombstone"?

[MrChug]

ONCE AND FOR ALL-Which was the better movie? It has to be broken down too: I think the characters following (respectively) made and/or broke the movie...

Which was the better script?
Who was the better Wyatt? (Kevin Costner or Kurt Russell)Who was the better Virgil Earp? (Michael Madsen or Sam Elliott)Who was the better Ike Clanton? (Jeff Fahey or Stephen Lang)
Who was the better Doc Holliday? (Dennis Quaid or Val Kilmer)Who was the better Sheriff Behan? (Mark Harmon or Jon Tenney)Who was the better Curly Bill Brosius? (Lewis Smith or Powers Boothe)

There's alot to discuss if you watched both of these movies. (and by the way I'm not even going to BEGIN to argue who was a hotter Josie Marcus (not that Dana Delaney isn't as appealing a woman as there is, but that Joanna Going has me searching for her movies :devil ).

My pick(s) are going to be obvious, but I wanna know what you think...

[Richard Cranium]

http://www.toomanychefs.com/images/aprilpizza/Ingredients.jpg

FTW!!

[dimsah]

Tombstone. No doubt.

During my late teens I would watch Tombstone everynight for the better part of 2 months.

[blizz]

the better film....wyatt earp. for entertainment and action....tombstone.


Which was the better script? see above
Who was the better Wyatt? Kurt Russell
Who was the better Virgil Earp? Sam Elliott
Who was the better Ike Clanton? Stephen Lang
Who was the better Doc Holliday? Dennis Quaid <-his portrayal of the man was probably more accurate
Who was the better Sheriff Behan? Jon Tenney
Who was the better Curly Bill Brosius? Powers Boothe <--great actor period

Joanna Going for sure.

[Richard Cranium]

Kurt and Val kick ass!

http://sachem.suffolk.lib.ny.us/advisor/pix1/tombstone.jpg

and Sam Elliott and Bill Paxton were the shit.

http://www.lazydork.com/movies/tombstone.jpg

[Richard Cranium]

the better film....wyatt earp. for entertainment and action....tombstone.


Which was the better script? see above
Who was the better Wyatt? Kurt Russell
Who was the better Virgil Earp? Sam Elliott
Who was the better Ike Clanton? Stephen Lang
Who was the better Doc Holliday? Dennis Quaid <-his portrayal of the man was probably more accurate
Who was the better Sheriff Behan? Jon Tenney
Who was the better Curly Bill Brosius? Powers Boothe <--great actor period

Joanna Going for sure.

Entertianment and action is why I like Tombstone and the actors are better, IMO.

[dimsah]

I never, for the life of me, thought someone would say Dennis Quaid's "Doc Holliday" was better than Val Kilmer. You are the 1 in 1000 man.

Why do you conclude Wyatt Earp the better film and then say Tombstone was better for entertainment and action? Do we not watch the movies for entertainment?

I should preface this with saying I had a difficult time watching Wyatt Earp because
1. I don't like Kevin Costner
2. I like Kurt Russell
3. After Val Kilmer's Holliday I literally felt sorry for Dennis Quaid because I didn't think there was any way he could follow it.

[Richard Cranium]

Yeah, I bet when you ask guys who they think of when you say Doc Holliday the majority would say Val Kilmer.

[ShoogarBear]

Tombstone.

Wyatt Earp wasn't a bad flick, although a little slow in parts, and was more realistic, but freaking George P. Cosmatos, of all people, finally made a good flick.

-Russell > Costner
-How many lines does anyone ever quote from Wyatt Earp??? (Granted, Tombstone just skirts being corny, and all the good lines from Tombstone are Holliday's.)
-Elliott >>>> Madsen
-Fahey ~ Lang
-Kilmer >>>>> Quaid (and Quaid did a damn good job)
-Boothe >>> Smith
-Delaney >>>>>>>>> Going

If you had only looked at the cast list and director before you saw either movie, no way would anyone have picked Tombstone. The planets just lined up right on that one.

[Richard Cranium]

If you had only looked at the cast list and director before you saw either movie, no way would anyone have picked Tombstone. The planets just lined up right on that one.

I would. Tombstone had better actors for the roles. Hands down.

[DarkReign]

"Im your Huckleberry"

[exstatic]

Tombstone. Val Kilmer stole that fucking movie, too.

[leemajors]

the horse "chase" scene with russel and delaney demands fast forwarding.

[blizz]

I never, for the life of me, thought someone would say Dennis Quaid's "Doc Holliday" was better than Val Kilmer. You are the 1 in 1000 man.

Why do you conclude Wyatt Earp the better film and then say Tombstone was better for entertainment and action? Do we not watch the movies for entertainment?

I should preface this with saying I had a difficult time watching Wyatt Earp because
1. I don't like Kevin Costner
2. I like Kurt Russell
3. After Val Kilmer's Holliday I literally felt sorry for Dennis Quaid because I didn't think there was any way he could follow it.

It's just my opinion that Wyatt Earp was the more realistic of the two, while Tombstone was "Hollywood-ized". I think that Kilmer brought this sort of "bad ass", deathwish type quality to the character with his demeanor and lines. I think that's why most people like him in the role. I'm not saying I didn't like it, BUT Quaid's portrayal was more accurate of the man at the time, IMO. I think that Wyatt Earp was the better film because you got more of an idea of how and why Wyatt became the man he was in Tombstone (AZ) and I think you get more of an idea about what it was like in those days. You can be entertained with plenty of action in some Steven Segal movies, but they're not good films. You can't win when you make a movie that was essentially already made because it looks copycat-ish, even though they're both following the same story historically.

[misterx91578]

"your a daisy if you do"

tombstone

[JMarkJohns]

Tombstone wasn't a great film, but it was entertaining, had great dialogue, and had some damn good star power throughout the film.

Earp may have been more accurate, but it was slow, therefore boring, didn't have near the entertainment value of Tombstone, nor anything truly memorable to take away from the viewing.

It didn have the better movie poster, however.

[MrChug]

"Oh Johnny...I forget you were there. You can go now."

-Doc Holliday

[Faccia di Angelo]

"You tell 'em I'M coming... and hell's coming with me, you hear?...
Hell's coming with me!"

Tombstone!
blizz, go away.

[MrChug]

"Im your Huckleberry"

But the original script says: "I'm here Huckleberry" after Ringo says "I didn't think you had it in ya..." :dizzy

[T Park]

I voted Tombstone, but I could see where Blizz is coming from, and almost makes me want to see Wyatt Earp to see how the true Doc Holliday was.

Val Kilmer was still the best :lol

[slayermin]

I thought Wyatt Earp was the better movie. But I like Val Kilmer's Doc Holliday much better than Dennis Quaid.

The problem I have with Tombstone is the chase scenes on horses at the end. It's like they ran out of money and couldn't finish the movie with a better ending.

[curtismedellin]

"...your spanish is worse than your english"
Doc Holiday, are you retired too?"

so many damn good quotes from that movie, Tombstone rocks.

[mardigan]

Tombstone by far
Michael Biehn is the man

[dimsah]

It's just my opinion that Wyatt Earp was the more realistic of the two, while Tombstone was "Hollywood-ized". I think that Kilmer brought this sort of "bad ass", deathwish type quality to the character with his demeanor and lines. I think that's why most people like him in the role. I'm not saying I didn't like it, BUT Quaid's portrayal was more accurate of the man at the time, IMO. I think that Wyatt Earp was the better film because you got more of an idea of how and why Wyatt became the man he was in Tombstone (AZ) and I think you get more of an idea about what it was like in those days. You can be entertained with plenty of action in some Steven Segal movies, but they're not good films. You can't win when you make a movie that was essentially already made because it looks copycat-ish, even though they're both following the same story historically.I get your point.
Personally, if I want a history lesson I'll watch the History channel or read about it.
I watch movies for entertainment only and I found Tombstone the more entertaining of the two. That's how I judge if one movie is better than another.

[blizz]

I get your point.
Personally, if I want a history lesson I'll watch the History channel or read about it.
I watch movies for entertainment only and I found Tombstone the more entertaining of the two. That's how I judge if one movie is better than another.
.....and I get yours. I'm sure one was meant to be more of an action film and one was meant to tell a story....so to compare the two isn't really fair. For what it's worth, if I had to watch one of the two right now, that's easy, I'd watch Tombstone.

[blizz]

The problem I have with Tombstone is the chase scenes on horses at the end. It's like they ran out of money and couldn't finish the movie with a better ending.

Yeah, those did kinda suck.

[T Park]

Yeah, him just all of a sudden finding those guys, shooting them on horses, was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.

it was like they were filming and were saying "Looks like we've only got 15 mins left. Lets wrap it up, shoot them all.

[peewee's lovechild]

Kevin Costner was what was so wrong with Wyatt Earp.

I appreciate the back story to Earp in Wyatt Earp, and I think you can understand Wyatt "the man" a lot better in that movie. But, Costner's portrayal of the title character is horrible.

Having said that, Hackman, Madsen, and Quaid put in some pretty damn good performances.

But, Tombstone is the superior movie by far because of it's pacing and dialogue, not to mention all the great acting by a superior cast.

[JoeChalupa]

I concur. Tombstone was the better movie. If I want history I too will watch The History Channel or a Ken Burns film.

[MrChug]

Tombstone.

Wyatt Earp wasn't a bad flick, although a little slow in parts, and was more realistic, but freaking George P. Cosmatos, of all people, finally made a good flick.

-Russell > Costner
-How many lines does anyone ever quote from Wyatt Earp??? (Granted, Tombstone just skirts being corny, and all the good lines from Tombstone are Holliday's.)
-Elliott >>>> Madsen
-Fahey ~ Lang
-Kilmer >>>>> Quaid (and Quaid did a damn good job)
-Boothe >>> Smith
-Delaney >>>>>>>>> Going

If you had only looked at the cast list and director before you saw either movie, no way would anyone have picked Tombstone. The planets just lined up right on that one.

I can't disagree with much of what you said Shoog...

Costner-sucked in every movie he ever did (and made alot of money doing it) unless your casting director says the role calls for dull, monotone, unattractive, and/or a stoned character.

Sam Elliott is a fuckin stud. With a bigger role, I think Masden could have impressed but not as an ass-kicker.

Lang had alot of camera time and played the role PERFECTLY, but Fahey made you wanna find his address and knock his teeth down his throat.

Now DOC HOLLIDAY?? Fuck...it's amazing how well both played a boozing, sickly, dangerously evil, yet witty, charming, and sensitive character? EASILY, Kilmer was the better Holliday, but I try to imagine Quaid in the same role. Better? Quite possible, but Val did the role justice and then some. That's one cool mthafkr when he puts his mind to it: THE DUEL SCENE (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2624009291999538197&q=tombstone+doc&total=79&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8)

Powers Boothe WAS fantastic, but just the one main scene that Lewis Smith had entering the courtroom showed he could play a villainous charachter to a T makes me think about the "switching casting" example...see above.

AND THE Josie comparison? No, you're right I WON'T take a young, verile, doe-eyed, slim bodied, chisled jawed vision of perfection who's stare alone could make you cum over Delaney...no, YOUR'E right! :pctoss

Nah, I just think I see every scene that she was in as so sexually charged that IF I HAD TO CHOOSE, that I'd CHOOSE to see her in a few hundred more scenes...significantly less clothed of course :cooldevil

[exstatic]

"Oh Johnny...I forget you were there. You may go now."

-Doc Holliday
FIFY

[MrChug]

FIFY

:lol Thanks...never looked at that part. :D

[curtismedellin]

Doc Holliday: In Vino Veritas.
[In wine is truth. - Meaning - "When I'm drinking, I speak my mind."]
Johnny Ringo: Age Quod Agis.
[Do what you do. - Meaning - "Do what you do best."]
Doc Holliday: Credat Judaeus Apella, Non Ego. The Jew Apella may believe it, not I.
[Meaning, "Oh I don't believe drinking is what I do best."]
Johnny Ringo: Eventus Stultorum Magister.
[Events are the teachers of fools. - Meaning - "Fools have to learn by experience."]
Doc Holliday: In Pace Requiescat.
[Rest In Peace - Meaning - "It's Your Funeral!"]

just in case some of you want to know what they're saying at the bar.

[curtismedellin]

Curly Bill: [takes a bill with Wyatt's signature from a customer and throws it on the faro table] Wyatt Earp, huh? I heard of you.
Ike Clanton: Listen, Mr. Kansas Law Dog. Law don't go around here. Savvy?
Wyatt Earp: I'm retired.
Curly Bill: Good. That's real good.
Ike Clanton: Yeah, that's good, Mr. Law Dog, 'cause law don't go around here.
Wyatt Earp: I heard you the first time.
[flips a card]
Wyatt Earp: Winner to the King, five hundred dollars.
Curly Bill: Shut up, Ike.
Johnny Ringo: [Ringo steps up to Doc] And you must be Doc Holliday.
Doc Holliday: That's the rumor.
Johnny Ringo: You retired too?
Doc Holliday: Not me. I'm in my prime.
Johnny Ringo: Yeah, you look it.
Doc Holliday: And you must be Ringo. Look, darling, Johnny Ringo. The deadliest pistoleer since Wild Bill, they say. What do you think, darling? Should I hate him?
Kate: You don't even know him.
Doc Holliday: Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him.
Wyatt Earp: [to Ringo] He's drunk.
Doc Holliday: In vino veritas.
Johnny Ringo: Age quod agis.
Doc Holliday: Credat Judaeus apella.
Johnny Ringo: [pats his gun] Ecentus stultorum magister.
Doc Holliday: [gives a Cheshire cat smile] In pace requiescat.
Tombstone Marshal Fred White: Come on boys. We don't want any trouble in here. Not in any language.
Doc Holliday: Evidently Mr. Ringo's an educated man. Now I really hate him.

[MrChug]

CM...thanks for the stuff^^^^^

:toast

[StoneCutter]

Costner-sucked in every movie he ever did (and made alot of money doing it) unless your casting director says the role calls for dull, monotone, unattractive, and/or a stoned character.

Watch Open Range. IMHO it is Costner's best western. Excellent performance by Robert Duvall also. It has more in common with Tombstone then it does with Earp or Dances with Wolves.

[peewee's lovechild]

Costner-sucked in every movie he ever did (and made alot of money doing it) unless your casting director says the role calls for dull, monotone, unattractive, and/or a stoned character.

Watch Open Range. IMHO it is Costner's best western. Excellent performance by Robert Duvall also. It has more in common with Tombstone then it does with Earp or Dances with Wolves.

I'll have to agree with you here.

I know I said that I hate Costner and that he fucks up every movie he's been in, but I have to admit that "Open Range" is a pretty damn good movie.

I think it has more to do with Duvall and Bening, though.

[ShoogarBear]

Eh, Costner is not a good actor, but he's had some movies where he was decent:

Silverado
Field of Dreams
No Way Out
JFK

[peewee's lovechild]

Eh, Costner is not a good actor, but he's had some movies where he was decent:

Silverado
Field of Dreams
No Way Out
JFK

Field of Dreams is a good movie, but how many times can you see it without being bored?

Once.

I've never really liked "No Way Out". The sex scenes aren't bad, but the intrigue get's old.

Silverado and JFK are pretty damned good. But, once again, it has more to do with the talent around Costner in those movies.

[BeerIsGood!]

Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliott, Powers Boothe... No question which one was better.

To me Val Kilmer and Powers Boothe stole the show while Russell, Elliott, and Paxton were steady. Johnny Ringo wasn't a bad character either.

[MrChug]

Kurt Russell, Val Kilmer, Sam Elliott, Powers Boothe... No question which one was better.

To me Val Kilmer and Powers Boothe stole the show while Russell, Elliott, and Paxton were steady. Johnny Ringo wasn't a bad character either.

Well said.

[CubanMustGo]

Tombstone rocked, the music in Tombstone rocked, and I (along with 60 of my closest friends) got to perform the film score in Dallas' Meyerson Symphony Center under the direction of composer Bruce Broughton. :smokin

So there. :p:

[whottt]

I hate Val Kilmer, I 've never thought he was a great actor

That said...

His Doc Holiday kicked ass, he probably should have won an Oscar for it...

His Doc was charismatic and just jumped off the screeen and Kilmer has never been near as good in any other movie I've seen him in.

He carried Tombstone and he alone is enough to make it the better movie...



Everyone else has mentioned all the memorable quotes...

But I remember one scene, where he was about to do some killing, and he went from being glib and smartass to just...death. His eyes just looked like these black holes....it was awesome. Not a word needed to be spoken, you could feel the change and sense the menace.

Some times actors play characters and magic just happens...like Hopkins playing Hanibal Lecter...

That's what happened when Kilmer played Doc Holiday...

Definitely Tombstone :tu

[peewee's lovechild]

I hate Val Kilmer, I 've never thought he was a great actor

That said...

His Doc Holiday kicked ass, he probably should have won an Oscar for it...

His Doc was charismatic and just jumped off the screeen and Kilmer has never been near as good in any other movie I've seen him in.

He carried Tombstone and he alone is enough to make it the better movie...



Everyone else has mentioned all the memorable quotes...

But I remember one scene, where he was about to do some killing, and he went from being glib and smartass to just...death. His eyes just looked like these black holes....it was awesome. Not a word needed to be spoken, you could feel the change and sense the menace.

Some times actors play characters and magic just happens...like Hopkins playing Hanibal Lecter...

That's what happened when Kilmer played Doc Holiday...

Definitely Tombstone :tu

I finally have something I can agree on with you.

[MrChug]

I hate Val Kilmer, I 've never thought he was a great actor

That said...

His Doc Holiday kicked ass, he probably should have won an Oscar for it...

His Doc was charismatic and just jumped off the screeen and Kilmer has never been near as good in any other movie I've seen him in.

He carried Tombstone and he alone is enough to make it the better movie...



Everyone else has mentioned all the memorable quotes...

But I remember one scene, where he was about to do some killing, and he went from being glib and smartass to just...death. His eyes just looked like these black holes....it was awesome. Not a word needed to be spoken, you could feel the change and sense the menace.

Some times actors play characters and magic just happens...like Hopkins playing Hanibal Lecter...

That's what happened when Kilmer played Doc Holiday...

Definitely Tombstone :tu

Nice take. :toast

[JoeChalupa]

Field of Dreams is a good movie, but how many times can you see it without being bored?

Once.

I've never really liked "No Way Out". The sex scenes aren't bad, but the intrigue get's old.

Silverado and JFK are pretty damned good. But, once again, it has more to do with the talent around Costner in those movies.

I can't even count how many times I've watched Field of Dreams. I always watch it when it comes on TV. I never get bored watching it. No Way Out is great and one of his better movies. Dances with Wolves is pure classic. But that is just me.

[2centsworth]

I hate Val Kilmer, I 've never thought he was a great actor

That said...

His Doc Holiday kicked ass, he probably should have won an Oscar for it...

His Doc was charismatic and just jumped off the screeen and Kilmer has never been near as good in any other movie I've seen him in.

He carried Tombstone and he alone is enough to make it the better movie...



Everyone else has mentioned all the memorable quotes...

But I remember one scene, where he was about to do some killing, and he went from being glib and smartass to just...death. His eyes just looked like these black holes....it was awesome. Not a word needed to be spoken, you could feel the change and sense the menace.

Some times actors play characters and magic just happens...like Hopkins playing Hanibal Lecter...

That's what happened when Kilmer played Doc Holiday...

Definitely Tombstone :tu
couldn't have said it any better myself.

Kilmer was pretty good in the Saint though.

[CuckingFunt]

I hate Val Kilmer, I 've never thought he was a great actor

That said...

His Doc Holiday kicked ass, he probably should have won an Oscar for it...

His Doc was charismatic and just jumped off the screeen and Kilmer has never been near as good in any other movie I've seen him in.

He carried Tombstone and he alone is enough to make it the better movie...



Everyone else has mentioned all the memorable quotes...

But I remember one scene, where he was about to do some killing, and he went from being glib and smartass to just...death. His eyes just looked like these black holes....it was awesome. Not a word needed to be spoken, you could feel the change and sense the menace.

Some times actors play characters and magic just happens...like Hopkins playing Hanibal Lecter...

That's what happened when Kilmer played Doc Holiday...

Definitely Tombstone :tuI agree with everything here but the Val Kilmer hatred.

[leemajors]

couldn't have said it any better myself.

Kilmer was pretty good in the Saint though.
he was hilarious in that movie because it was so ridiculous. he was awesome in kiss kiss bang bang and the salton sea, though.

[Walter Craparita]

I loved Wyatt Earp. Is Kevin Coster good? No. But the movie as a whole entertained me. I don't need shit that impresses a 5 yr old to entertain me though.


1000000000000000x time better than cheesey ass tombstone.

NO QUESTION Wyatt Earp had the better Doc Holiday. Dude looked JUST LIKE the real one.