FBI Records Confirm W Approved Iraqi Torture

[Nbadan]

Newly Obtained FBI Records Call Defense Department’s Methods "Torture," Express Concerns Over "Cover-Up" That May Leave FBI "Holding the Bag" for Abuses


NEW YORK -- A document released for the first time today by the American Civil Liberties Union suggests that President Bush issued an Executive Order authorizing the use of inhumane interrogation methods against detainees in Iraq. Also released by the ACLU today are a slew of other records including a December 2003 FBI e-mail that characterizes methods used by the Defense Department as "torture" and a June 2004 "Urgent Report" to the Director of the FBI that raises concerns that abuse of detainees is being covered up.

"These documents raise grave questions about where the blame for widespread detainee abuse ultimately rests," said ACLU Executive Director Anthony D. Romero. "Top government officials can no longer hide from public scrutiny by pointing the finger at a few low-ranking soldiers."

The documents were obtained after the ACLU and other public interest organizations filed a lawsuit against the government for failing to respond to a Freedom of Information Act request.

The two-page e-mail that references an Executive Order states that the President directly authorized interrogation techniques including sleep deprivation, stress positions, the use of military dogs, and "sensory deprivation through the use of hoods, etc." The ACLU is urging the White House to confirm or deny the existence of such an order and immediately to release the order if it exists. The FBI e-mail, which was sent in May 2004 from "On Scene Commander--Baghdad" to a handful of senior FBI officials, notes that the FBI has prohibited its agents from employing the techniques that the President is said to have authorized.

Another e-mail, dated December 2003, describes an incident in which Defense Department interrogators at Guantánamo Bay impersonated FBI agents while using "torture techniques" against a detainee. The e-mail concludes "If this detainee is ever released or his story made public in any way, DOD interrogators will not be held accountable because these torture techniques were done [sic] the ‘FBI’ interrogators. The FBI will [sic] left holding the bag before the public."

The document also says that no "intelligence of a threat neutralization nature" was garnered by the "FBI" interrogation, and that the FBI’s Criminal Investigation Task Force (CITF) believes that the Defense Department’s actions have destroyed any chance of prosecuting the detainee. The e-mail’s author writes that he or she is documenting the incident "in order to protect the FBI."

"The methods that the Defense Department has adopted are illegal, immoral, and counterproductive," said ACLU staff attorney Jameel Jaffer. "It is astounding that these methods appear to have been adopted as a matter of policy by the highest levels of government."

The June 2004 "Urgent Report" addressed to the FBI Director is heavily redacted. The legible portions of the document appear to describe an account given to the FBI’s Sacramento Field Office by an FBI agent who had "observed numerous physical abuse incidents of Iraqi civilian detainees," including "strangulation, beatings, [and] placement of lit cigarettes into the detainees ear openings." The document states that "[redacted] was providing this account to the FBI based on his knowledge that [redacted] were engaged in a cover-up of these abuses."

The release of these documents follows a federal court order that directed government agencies to comply with a year-old request under the Freedom of Information Act filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense and Veterans for Peace. The New York Civil Liberties Union is co-counsel in the case.

ACLU.org (http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=17216&c=206)

Why am I not surprised?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Fuck, who cares? Don't shoot at our troops, don't kill your fellow country men, and we won't fuck with you.

Duh.

[exstatic]

I care. It would differentiate us from the previous regime. Right now, precious little does.

[Spurminator]

Sleep deprivation? Dogs? HOODS?

Let me know when they find an order for soldiers to perform slow castrations, then we'll talk. This sounds like a fucking frat party to me.

I want our leaders held accountable for shady practices, but this stinks of more ACLU politics. I defy anyone to find one person bothered by this who was not already vehimently opposed to this war and/or administration.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Gimme a break ex. When we start chopping them up in wood chippers, give me a call.

We are dealing with a violent super minority here, you aren't gonna get rid of their kind at the peace table.

If the alleged "torture" (oh no, sleep deprivation!) saves the life of one American, it's worth it.

[2pac]

Sleep deprivation isnt torture.

(Remember, this is a very modest culture.)
Saddam used to hang the wife of the many he wanted to interrogate upside down nude during her period.


Yeah- I am real sorry we put hoods on guys and kept them out late. When we were really mean, we played Metallica for them.

[Duff McCartney]

Any form of torture is wrong IMO. You aren't gonna distinguish yourself as a better country by lowering yourself to the same standard as them. I know some of you would rather torture them the same as they torture civilians, but in the end, it's better if we don't.

[travis2]

Any form of torture is wrong IMO. You aren't gonna distinguish yourself as a better country by lowering yourself to the same standard as them. I know some of you would rather torture them the same as they torture civilians, but in the end, it's better if we don't.

Repeat after me...

Sleep deprivation is not torture.

[spurster]

Repeat after me...

Torture is not torture.

[Marcus Bryant]

I care. It would differentiate us from the previous regime. Right now, precious little does.

Yep, just like running people through an industrial shredder. Just like dripping acid on people. Just like kidnapping, executing people, and then sending home some body parts. Etc.

Your hate has made you stupid unless you were referring to the previous US administration...

[Spurminator]

The glee with which some on the Left report findings like this as confirmation of the US' use of inhumane methods reminds me a lot of the glee with which some on the Right reported glorified Iraqi firecrackers as evidence of stockpiles of WMDs.

In the end, you see what you want to see. But I do have to wonder why some seem so desperate to find evidence of US wrongdoing.

[Clandestino]

yeah, those aren't torture methods... it would suck not to know what time it is, but you're in prison, who gives a fuck what time it is..

the dogs didn't do shit, but scare them bc those pussies are afraid of dogs... not afraid to blow themselves up, but a dog... oh shit, that is a different story..

hoods??? they cover their women in hoods all the time!!!

[Yonivore]

If you had a terrorist locked in your closet and believed he had information that could save millions of people in, say, San Antonio; would putting a bag on his head or letting a dog bite his ass be that bad?

I'm with the poster that said to call when they fired up the wood chippers and brought out the rusty scalpels.

[1369]

If one of those dirt bags has information that would lead to counter-battery fire and stop incidents like those that happened today in Mosul, red is positive, black is negative.

[Marcus Bryant]

New concierge for Camp X-Ray

http://www.zonecapone.com/bilder/trademark%20half.JPG

?

[Useruser666]

I remember seeing the pictures of the Iraq captive standing on the box with wires connected to his arms. They told him if he fell off the box he would be electrocuted. The wires weren't connected to anything, they were just there to scare him. UNder Saddam, the wires would be real and live. Case closed.

[Hook Dem]

If one of those dirt bags has information that would lead to counter-battery fire and stop incidents like those that happened today in Mosul, red is positive, black is negative.
http://tinypic.com/yfhn5




I'm George W. Bush and I approve of this message.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Repeat after me...

Sleep deprivation is not torture.


Tell that to any new parent. BELIEVE ME, the wood chipper would be less painful!

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Any form of torture is wrong IMO.

Let's talk again Duffboy after a nuke goes off here in the US and a couple million are dead.

Sleep deprivation and Metallica would pale in comparison to that, but you're gotta be a little pussy about it. Move to France.


If one of those dirt bags has information that would lead to counter-battery fire and stop incidents like those that happened today in Mosul, red is positive, black is negative.



A-fucking-men.

[Duff McCartney]

Let's talk again Duffboy after a nuke goes off here in the US and a couple million are dead.

Yeah lets talk again when that happens...when do you think that day will be? I have a very tight schedule.

[exstatic]

Let's talk again Duffboy after a nuke goes off here in the US and a couple million are dead.

Kinda proves my point if that happens, doesn't it? Obviously, the torture thing wouldn't have worked now, would it?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Not if the assholes who are associated with it get to hide behind the dresses of the PC crowd.

Duff, it will be in our lifetime, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong, but unfortunately I don't think I will be :(

[jalbre6]

Sort of off topic, but I read a book a few years back called "War Day", by Whitley Schriber (I think). It had to do with a limited nuclear exchange with the USSR, and San Antonio was the city hit. Check it out.

[Duff McCartney]

Not if the assholes who are associated with it get to hide behind the dresses of the PC crowd.

Duff, it will be in our lifetime, unfortunately. I hope I'm wrong, but unfortunately I don't think I will be :(

Millions of people dying....how would that be different from any other day?

[GrandeDavid]

Nbadan, I would hope we're doing more than torturing those killer rats, jerk off:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/12/21/iraq.main/index.html

MOSUL, Iraq (CNN) -- A midday rocket attack on a U.S. military base in northern Iraq killed more than 20 people and wounded another 57, U.S. military and civilian officials said Tuesday.

The exact death toll remained unclear late Tuesday.

In Washington, the Pentagon said 22 people, including 19 U.S. troops, were killed in the attack. Details on the other three dead were not immediately known.

Meanwhile, military contractor Halliburton Co. reported seven deaths -- four employees with its subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root -- and three subcontractors.

It's unclear whether the three other deaths cited by military officials include any of the Halliburton workers.

Pentagon officials blamed the blast at Camp Marez in Mosul on a rocket attack. One rocket hit the dining hall. Another landed on the ground of the base but did not cause any casualties.

Two other rockets landed outside the base, which the U.S. Army shares with the Iraqi national guard, Pentagon officials said. The attack occurred while soldiers were sitting down to lunch in the mess tent.

"It's a sad day in Mosul," said Brig. Gen. Carter Ham, the commander of the Army's Task Force Olympia, which includes about 8,500 U.S. troops in the Mosul area.

Jeremy Redmon, a reporter for the Times-Dispatch newspaper of Richmond, Virginia, who is embedded with troops at the base, told CNN the attack "knocked soldiers off their feet and out of their seats." (Full story)

"It really was just a sea of wounded and dead, and people crying, folks that were numb," Redmon said.

At least two of the dead were soldiers from the Maine National Guard, according to U.S. Sen. Olympia Snowe's office.

"My thoughts and prayers are with the families and loved ones of the two brave Maine soldiers," the Republican said in a statement.

The Iraqi militant group Jaish Ansar Al-Sunna claimed responsibility for the attack in a posting on Islamist Web sites. The group, which has also claimed responsibility for previous attacks, said it shot video of the attack that will be released later.

CNN could not confirm the authenticity of the group's claim.

In Washington, President Bush expressed his "heartfelt condolences" to the families of those killed, adding that U.S. troops in Iraq are engaged in a "vital mission." (Full story)

The attack on Camp Marez could be the deadliest single attack against U.S. troops in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003, and the one-day toll was the worst since the early days of the invasion.

In November 2003, 17 soldiers were killed when two Black Hawk helicopters collided while evading fire over Mosul.

'A level of vulnerability'
CNN personnel who have visited the base said the dining area is a tent-like facility with no hardened protection -- and that soldiers had specifically raised concerns that they could be targeted by insurgents at meal time.

One had told CNN it was only a matter of time before there was an attack on the mess hall.

"There is a level of vulnerability when you go in there, and you don't feel like there's a hard roof over your head," said Lt. Col. Paul Hastings, an officer at Camp Marez.

Overall the base has good protection, Hastings said, and a new dining facility is being built.

Bill Nemitz, a reporter with the Press-Herald newspaper of Portland, Maine, who was embedded at the base, said the new facility is made of concrete and was originally set to be completed by Christmas, but construction had slowed and the building is not near completion.

Nemitz said the base's chief medical officer in April expressed concern about the mess hall being targeted and was charged with drawing up a "mass casualty" plan.

Mosul has been a site of repeated attacks in recent weeks. When the U.S. military launched a major offensive in Falluja in November, there was concern some insurgents had fled to Mosul and would launch attacks from there. The military recently conducted an offensive against insurgents in Mosul, but the violence has continued.

More than 1,300 U.S. troops have died in Iraq since the 2003 invasion -- most of them during the guerrilla campaign that has raged since the collapse of Saddam Hussein's government in April 2003.

With about 1.7 million people, Mosul is Iraq's third-largest city. It is located near the country's northern oil fields.

Tuesday's attack came shortly after British Prime Minister Tony Blair made an unscheduled visit to Baghdad.

During a news conference with Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, Blair called the insurgency "a battle between democracy and terror," in advance of Iraqi elections set for January 30. (Full story)

U.S. and Iraqi officials have said violence would likely spike as the elections approach. Tuesday's attack prompted new questions about the security of the voting, in which Iraqis will select a transitional assembly to draft a new constitution.

But in Washington, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said 15 out of 18 Iraqi provinces now have peace and security.

"There are other areas that we must continue to address some of the ongoing security challenges," McClellan said. "It's important that we continue to help the Iraqi people move forward on the political process as well."

Other developments

A U.S. Marine died of injuries suffered in a vehicle accident Tuesday in western Iraq, the Marine Corps said. The accident was being investigated, and no details were released.


The French Foreign Ministry has confirmed that two French journalists held hostage by an Iraqi insurgency group since August have been released. A group known as the Islamic Army in Iraq said Tuesday it had delivered the two to the French Embassy in Baghdad, the Arabic-language television network Al-Jazeera reported. (Full story)


Oil pipelines were on fire Tuesday near Baiji, Iraq, the Northern Oil Co. said. The cause of the fires was unknown. The blazes are near portions of pipelines that were damaged by saboteurs two days ago. The burning pipelines intersect the Ceyhan export line and a domestic line, and carry oil from the Kirkuk oil fields.


The U.S. Air Force launched airstrikes early Tuesday on insurgents fighting American troops west of Baghdad in the town of Hit, said 1st Sgt. Steve Valley with the Combined Press Information Center. No other information was immediately available.

[Nbadan]

The wingnuts will argue that torture is justified in the pursuit of national security. But what have we gained from the torture? The war in Iraq spirals out of control with no respite in sight while the US loses international support for its campaign. And the loss of moral leadership will be felt for years to come, as brutal regimes cite the US example to justify their own torture and abuses in the name of fighting domestic "terrorism". Meanwhile, US coalition building will be crippled for years to come as the American pariah becomes increasingly toxic to the rest of the world.

The neocons wanted to give the world a middle finger and prove it could carry out its international agenda on its own, with little international cooperation. The middle finger part worked splendidly, and continus to bear fruit. The "no international cooperation" part, well, has been a bit more problematic.

[2pac]

Stop using big words to make yourself look smarter. Respite doesnt work well there. Respite speaks of a temporary break - which is clearly not what you are looking for. You are looking for the end. That isnt what Respite denotates.

What you are blaming Republicans for is exactly what John Kerry wants to do in NKorea. But you are probably for that.

[1369]

Tell that to any new parent. BELIEVE ME, the wood chipper would be less painful!

Amen Ed, Amen.

[Uncle Donnie]

The wingnuts will argue that torture is justified in the pursuit of national security. But what have we gained from the torture? The war in Iraq spirals out of control with no respite in sight while the US loses international support for its campaign.

Guess we have to step up the torture then! :shootme

You are such an ass.

[exstatic]

Guess we have to step up the torture then!

One definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over, yet expecting a different result.

[travis2]

Yep...behavior I've seen from the Left for many years now. I'm glad you agree.

[exstatic]

It's not idealogically biased Travis. There is plenty of bad behavior on both sides.

[Uncle Donnie]

One definition of insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over, yet expecting a different result.

It was a sarcastic remark. Especially considering most of what's been described hardly qualifies as torture.

[Yonivore]

There is plenty of bad behavior on both sides.
Here's one for you ex. Give me an example of good behavior exhibited by the "insurgents."

Have they built any schools in Iraq? Paved any roads? Sat at the negotiation table? Handed out candy to Iraqi children? Have any "insurgents" ran to the middle of a bridge, under withering enemy fire, to save an innocent Iraqi grandmother? Name one good thing the "insurgents" have done in Iraq. Just one.

Your moral equivalency argument is stupid. The U.S. and its coalition partners haven't done anything that remotely approaches the atrocities committed by those with whom we are doing battle.

[exstatic]

Especially considering most of what's been described hardly qualifies as torture.
Is Chinese water torture actually torture? It doesn't hurt much, but has been proven to drive people insane. You can actually die if deprived of REM sleep for a long enough period of time.

[Uncle Donnie]

Be careful reaching like that, you might hurt yourself.

[Yonivore]

Is Chinese water torture actually torture? It doesn't hurt much, but has been proven to drive people insane. You can actually die if deprived of REM sleep for a long enough period of time.
So, are their prisoners that have been driven insane or died from sleep deprivation? No? So STFU.

[Nbadan]

Stop using big words to make yourself look smarter.

:lol

Sorry, I'll drop my IQ a few points so that my posts don't sail over your head!

[Nbadan]

Be careful reaching like that, you might hurt yourself.

Actually, Ex isn't reaching. Sleep deprivation, and for sure, smearing someone in feces, building human pyramids of naked flesh, and torturing some victims to death is very much against the Geneva Convention.

I say we do give the same treatment to all these sick mother-fuckers that think this isn't torture. Let's start with Uncle Donnie and Yonivore.

[Uncle Donnie]

Actually, Ex isn't reaching. Sleep deprivation, and for sure, smearing someone in feces, building human pyramids of naked flesh, and torturing some victims to death is very much against the Geneva Convention.

I say we do give the same treatment to all these sick mother-fuckers that think this isn't torture. Let's start with Uncle Donnie and Yonivore.

I say you keep your sexual fantasies to yourself.

[Spurminator]

smearing someone in feces, building human pyramids of naked flesh, and torturing some victims to death is very much against the Geneva Convention.

I say we stick to the methods named specifically in the report.