The Last Roundup

[ShoogarBear]

http://mavs.beloblog.com/archives/finley.jpghttp://www.lonepixel.com/johnm/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/robert-horry.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2005/05/22/2005-05-22-ins-barry.jpg

There's a 100% chance that this is the last season with the Spurs (and perhaps the league) for at least one.

I'm guessing there's at least a 50% chance that this may be the last season with the Spurs for all three.

If so, that will represent the biggest turnover in core personnel since the end of the 2003 season.

Add to that, while he will still be around, it's not realistic to expect the 2008-2009 Bruce Bowen will play anywhere near the minutes of the 2006-2007 Bowen.

The foundation of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili will still be there. What's in the pipeline (as of today) are Ime Udoka, Matt Bonner, and Marcus Williams.

Is that sufficient? Where are the swingmen of 2008-2009 going to come from?

[Kori Ellis]

Where are the swingmen of 2008-2009 going to come from?

James White!

[ShoogarBear]

:lmao

[Kori Ellis]

I figured this might be only opportunity to ever post "James White!"

However, to answer your question, I think you are right .. it might be the last year for all three of them. While the Spurs have concentrated on drafting young bigs in recent years (other than MWilliams), they haven't really addressed the wings. I would like Bowen to be able to play forever (or baby Bowen to hurry up and grow up). But I would guess in free agency this summer, they will have to target a young wing. Bowen, Fin, Barry and even Manu won't be here or at top level for that many more years.

[timvp]

A random observation is I think Barry could outlast Finley in the NBA. Barry was a great athlete in his younger days and he's still pretty darn athletic. He's older than Finley but Barry is someone who I think age will actually help out. The less he thinks and the more he plays, the better he'll become.

Going forward, out of Finley, Horry and Barry, I wouldn't be surprised if Barry has the most left in the tank.

That didn't really answer a question that was asked but thought it was noteworthy . . .

[Obstructed_View]

I agree. Barry doesn't strike me as slowing down at all. I'd certainly like to see him play like a guy the Spurs don't want to trade, and he's capable of doing that for longer than some people think.

[ShoogarBear]

No, but you just brought a huge smile to whottt's face.

This is a real concern, but if the Spurs have to go to the free agent market next year to find a swingman, well, a) we all know they don't have the best record at that, and this time they won't have much above the MLE, and b) I don't even know who would be available.

If Barry is playing well enough to stay, that would be nice, but it still won't address the need for a 30 MPG guy at the 3. Unless you think that will be Udoka.

[Ocotillo]

Pipeline:

http://www.eurobasket.com/photos/Sanikidze_Viktor.jpg

[ShoogarBear]

Maybe. He showed me something this summer beyond previous expectations. But still a project. Ready to step in in 2008?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think barry could help a championship level team next year. Maybe Chicago? Orlando?A place with youth and an opportunity to play for an NBA championship.. Or he could simply retire..

[whottt]

No, but you just brought a huge smile to whottt's face.



I thank Beno...


Spurs fans are spoiled...even the ones who try not to be...they think they know what suck is....when really they are just being spoiled...

I thank Beno for showing timvp and others what suck truly is...now they're starting to get it.

[Ocotillo]

Maybe. He showed me something this summer beyond previous expectations. But still a project. Ready to step in in 2008?

2008? Not without playing time somewhere competitive.

[Obstructed_View]

I thank Beno...


Spurs fans are spoiled...even the ones who try not to be...they think they know what suck is....when really they are just being spoiled...

I thank Beno for showing timvp and others what suck truly is...now they're starting to get it.
The ones who read your posts do.

[baseline bum]

I expect to see one of Finley and Barry back in 2008-09 in a Steve Kerr type of role. Rob's definitely playing his last season, seeing that he changed his number to 25 just like he said he would for his final year in the league.

[whottt]

The ones who read your posts do.


Then by all means...keep reading them, because that's what a douche bag does....

[SenorSpur]

http://mavs.beloblog.com/archives/finley.jpghttp://www.lonepixel.com/johnm/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/robert-horry.jpghttp://images.usatoday.com/sports/_photos/2005/05/22/2005-05-22-ins-barry.jpg

There's a 100% chance that this is the last season with the Spurs (and perhaps the league) for at least one.

I'm guessing there's at least a 50% chance that this may be the last season with the Spurs for all three.

If so, that will represent the biggest turnover in core personnel since the end of the 2003 season.

Add to that, while he will still be around, it's not realistic to expect the 2008-2009 Bruce Bowen will play anywhere near the minutes of the 2006-2007 Bowen.

The foundation of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili will still be there. What's in the pipeline (as of today) are Ime Udoka, Matt Bonner, and Marcus Williams.

Is that sufficient? Where are the swingmen of 2008-2009 going to come from?

It's an interesting question. A question that has bothered many of us for at least the last 2-3 years. IMO, this is an area on the team that they do not have a long-range development plan. Instead they have virtually ignored this position over the past couple of seasons. I trust it wont "bite them in the ass" this season.

It's inconceivable that the Spurs will be able to draft an NBA-ready swingman in '08 that will come in and start paying immediate dividends. And Marcus Williams looks to be at least 2 years away from being a contributor, if he pans out at all.

Meanwhile Ime Udoka is and will be a fine addition. He should develop into a superb backup for Bowen. I expect his minutes to increase significantly next year or perhaps even later this year if he moves ahead of, say Barry. He should make a good stop-gap, transitional-type player. However, Udoka does not have the length needed to be considered a long-term answer at that spot.

The only other solution is for the Spurs to "dip their toes" into the FA market. I've read on many occasion that Pop and R.C. like to keep contingency lists for everything (coaches, trainers, players, etc.) That said, I would be curious as to who they may have their early sights set on in the pool of '08 free agent swingmen. And someone that they could afford.

[Obstructed_View]

Then by all means...keep reading them, because that's what a douche bag does....
Yeah, I guess we'd all be smart to just put you on ignore.

[Obstructed_View]

Pipeline:

http://www.eurobasket.com/photos/Sanikidze_Viktor.jpg
He looked as ready as Williams did in the RMR. As SenorSpur said, it makes the acquisition of Udoka that much more valuable while waiting for one or both of them to develop.

[BeerIsGood!]

Two words - Free Agent. With Barry, Finley and Horry's money off the books there should be a little left over for a couple of role playing guards. The trick is picking correctly, but that's the case every season.

[LEN BIAS 4EVER]

I remember this offseason the talk was that next year the Spurs would be able to bring Elton Brand or a player of that status because the were in such good position. How much does the Bonner, Bowen, Oberto and Udoka signings knock off the spurs 08 offseason cash ??

I guess Magette is out of the question ??
Walter Herrmann will be restricted FA and I like him alot but how much will he cost ??
I think Finley stays for a reasonable amount and still has enough left.
Bye Bye Barry.
How about Trevor Aziria ??

Personally I really like Udoka and think he can be a quality player.

[polandprzem]

Barry was not more athletic then Finley.

[urunobili]

I remember this offseason the talk was that next year the Spurs would be able to bring Elton Brand or a player of that status because the were in such good position. How much does the Bonner, Bowen, Oberto and Udoka signings knock off the spurs 08 offseason cash ??

I guess Magette is out of the question ??
Walter Herrmann will be restricted FA and I like him alot but how much will he cost ??
I think Finley stays for a reasonable amount and still has enough left.
Bye Bye Barry.
How about Trevor Aziria ??

Personally I really like Udoka and think he can be a quality player.

Hermann has what it takes to play in this franchise

[tav1]

Next summer's free agent class is pretty good in terms of quality young wings and back up points. Luol Deng (should be extended in the next week or so), Andre Iguodala and Josh Smith will be well out of San Antonio's price range but there will be other attractive options. Two wings off the top of my head are Tony Allen and Trevor Ariza, whom we should have signed two summers ago. Both Allen and Ariza are decent scorers who can really defend. Whether or not they have the temperment or IQ for the Spurs, I wouldn't know. But their games are great fits.

In terms of point guards, Chris Duhon will be too pricey, but I'd guess Sergio Rodriquez or Juan Dixon could be had fairly cheaply.

My point is not provide a long wish list, but rather to say there are enough young bloods available that I'd just assume the Spurs let Finley, Barry and Horry walk to conserve the meager cap space available for one or two men under 25.

[SenorSpur]

Trevor Ariza would be a perfect addition. Anyone know his contract status?

[tav1]

Ariza can test the free agent waters next offseason, but if I remember correctly he's restricted. The Magic have put themselves in a tight financial spot with Rashard Lewis' contract and the noose that is Hedo Turkoglu. Ariza could well be in the Spurs' price range but they may not even try if they know Orlando will match. I'm optimistic that if Orlando does shell out extension money, it will be for Jameer Nelson and Ariza will be let go.

[SenorSpur]

Besides how much will Ariza play behind Rashard Lewis? I would think he would want to someplace where he can play some significant minutes.

[timvp]

As I thought about this more, this is how I think it'll play out:

2007-2008 Regular Season Swingman Rotation
Manu Ginobili - 28 minutes
Bruce Bowen - 28 minutes
Michael Finley - 25 minutes
Brent Barry or Ime Udoka - 15 minutes

There are basically four roles available. It'd be difficult and probably bad for the team to try to play all five of the options every night. The roles of Manu and Bowen should be pretty set. The starter at shooting guard should get somewhere between 22 and 25 minutes a night. The fourth swingman in the rotation will get between 15 and 18 minutes. The fifth swingman would get spot minutes here or there. The jobs for the starter, fourth and fifth swingman are basically interchangeable. Udoka probably will be the fifth swingman to begin the season, with Barry the fourth and Finley the starter but I'm sure Pop will give each a shot to move up the food chain.


2007-2008 Playoffs Swingman Rotation
Manu Ginobili - 30 minutes
Bruce Bowen - 32 minutes
Michael Finley - 24 minutes
Brent Barry or Ime Udoka - 10 minutes

This is virtually the same rotation the Spurs used last year. It worked rather well for the most part even though playoff teams usually play only three swingmen in their rotation. Pop is the master at keeping players fresh throughout a season and last year he even extended that into the playoffs. It worked well enough that I expect to see it again.


2008-2009 Regular Season Swingman Rotation
Manu Ginobili - 28 minutes
Ime Udoka - 30 minutes
Bruce Bowen - 20 minutes
Brent Barry, Michael Finley or Newcomer - 18 minutes

If all goes right this year, this is when Udoka moves into a more prominent role. However, if Bowen continues to defy age, he could get a bit more minutes which would then bring down Udoka's minutes. The Spurs would still have a role for either Barry or Finley if they return. If neither player returns, the Spurs have the MLE next year and could bring in a young wing and start the grooming process. A young player who could be had for a reasonable contract such as Dorell Wright would make a lot of sense.


2008-2009 Playoffs Swingman Rotation
Manu Ginobili - 30 minutes
Ime Udoka - 32 minutes
Bruce Bowen - 24 minutes
Brent Barry, Michael Finley or Newcomer - 10 minutes

It's actually kind of scary to think how much the Spurs need Udoka to pan out. There are big minutes in the not too distant future for him if he can live up to his potential. If Udoka is a bust or isn't able to play extended minutes, the Spurs almost certainly will have to go out and find a wing to add to the mix. Ginobili isn't a guy who plays big minutes. Bowen, Finley and Barry are all closing in on retirement. If Udoka isn't the answer for at least the next couple years, the Spurs will be in trouble unless they can find a swingman who can be the answer.

[T Park]

im confident that Senor Sanikidze will be with the team next year, and will produce at a Ginobili like pace 02 03.

[ShoogarBear]

That's a nice breakdown, timvp.

I'm not sold on Udoka yet. Oh, I'm sure he'll be a capable enough defender and he has a Spur mindset, but
a) he's still a guy who played a lot of minutes for a crappy team, and for role players that doesn't necessarily translate into playing a lot of minutes for a good team
b) even if the best-case scenario pans out and he proves near-equal to Bowen across the board, he still just isn't big enough to provide the same flexibility. Think about it: the only players in the NBA Bowen can't guard are post players. Anybody else, from 6 ft to 7 ft, if they on the perimeter, they're his.

Realistically, I see Udoka as a valuable 20-25 minute guy who'll never be the starter. Which is one of the reasons I posed the question. I think the only solution will be a good FA pickup.

[whottt]

Yeah, I guess we'd all be smart to just put you on ignore.



By all means do so...it'll keep you from hijacking other threads :tu

[Obstructed_View]

By all means do so...it'll keep you from hijacking other threads :tu
Yeah, keep believing you're the one bringing good takes. :lol

[whottt]

If you left click on my name and select view public profile, you'll find the ignore button :tu

I look forward to it every bit as much as you do...please hurry.


I know you consider senseless bitching to be a good take...but really, it isn't. Do yourself me and the board a favor and just hit that little ole ignore button...in fact, I demand you do so.

[AFBlue]

I know he's more of a combo forward type, but I would really love to see Ryan Gomes in a Spurs uni. He could be the long 3, small ball 4 for this team.

[Obstructed_View]

I know you consider senseless bitching to be a good take...
If I did, I wouldn't have any problem with your posts in the first place.

[whottt]

Then by all means...keep reading them, because that's what a douche bag does....