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Nbadan
10-28-2007, 04:33 AM
This dude's got it right.....kids aren't dumb today because they can't get a good education in public schools, some do, most don't, they are dumb because the educational system and teachers can't compete with IPODs, The Disney Channel and video games...


American kids, dumber than dirt
Warning: The next generation might just be the biggest pile of idiots in U.S. history
By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist


I have this ongoing discussion with a longtime reader who also just so happens to be a longtime Oakland high school teacher, a wonderful guy who's seen generations of teens come and generations go and who has a delightful poetic sensibility and quirky outlook on his life and his family and his beloved teaching career.

And he often writes to me in response to something I might've written about the youth of today, anything where I comment on the various nefarious factors shaping their minds and their perspectives and whether or not, say, EMFs and junk food and cell phones are melting their brains and what can be done and just how bad it might all be.

His response: It is not bad at all. It's absolutely horrifying.

My friend often summarizes for me what he sees, firsthand, every day and every month, year in and year out, in his classroom. He speaks not merely of the sad decline in overall intellectual acumen among students over the years, not merely of the astonishing spread of lazy slackerhood, or the fact that cell phones and iPods and excess TV exposure are, absolutely and without reservation, short-circuiting the minds of the upcoming generations. Of this, he says, there is zero doubt.

Nor does he speak merely of the notion that kids these days are overprotected and wussified and don't spend enough time outdoors and don't get any real exercise and therefore can't, say, identify basic plants, or handle a tool, or build, well, anything at all. Again, these things are a given. Widely reported, tragically ignored, nothing new.

No, my friend takes it all a full step — or rather, leap — further. It is not merely a sad slide. It is not just a general dumbing down. It is far uglier than that.

We are, as far as urban public education is concerned, essentially at rock bottom. We are now at a point where we are essentially churning out ignorant teens who are becoming ignorant adults and society as a whole will pay dearly, very soon, and if you think the hordes of easily terrified, mindless fundamentalist evangelical Christian lemmings have been bad for the soul of this country, just wait.

It's gotten so bad that, as my friend nears retirement, he says he is very seriously considering moving out of the country so as to escape what he sees will be the surefire collapse of functioning American society in the next handful of years due to the absolutely irrefutable destruction, the shocking — and nearly hopeless — dumb-ification of the American brain. It is just that bad.

Now, you may think he's merely a curmudgeon, a tired old teacher who stopped caring long ago. Not true. Teaching is his life. He says he loves his students, loves education and learning and watching young minds awaken. Problem is, he is seeing much less of it. It's a bit like the melting of the polar ice caps. Sure, there's been alarmist data about it for years, but until you see it for yourself, the deep visceral dread doesn't really hit home.

He cites studies, reports, hard data, from the appalling effects of television on child brain development (i.e.; any TV exposure before 6 years old and your kid's basic cognitive wiring and spatial perceptions are pretty much scrambled for life), to the fact that, because of all the insidious mandatory testing teachers are now forced to incorporate into the curriculum, of the 182 school days in a year, there are 110 when such testing is going on somewhere at Oakland High. As one of his colleagues put it, "It's like weighing a calf twice a day, but never feeding it."

But most of all, he simply observes his students, year to year, noting all the obvious evidence of teens' decreasing abilities when confronted with even the most basic intellectual tasks, from understanding simple history to working through moderately complex ideas to even (in a couple recent examples that particularly distressed him) being able to define the words "agriculture," or even "democracy." Not a single student could do it.

It gets worse. My friend cites the fact that, of the 6,000 high school students he estimates he's taught over the span of his career, only a small fraction now make it to his grade with a functioning understanding of written English. They do not know how to form a sentence. They cannot write an intelligible paragraph. Recently, after giving an assignment that required drawing lines, he realized that not a single student actually knew how to use a ruler.

It is, in short, nothing less than a tidal wave of dumb, with once-passionate, increasingly exasperated teachers like my friend nearly powerless to stop it. The worst part: It's not the kids' fault. They're merely the victims of a horribly failed educational system.

Then our discussion often turns to the meat of it, the bigger picture, the ugly and unavoidable truism about the lack of need among the government and the power elite in this nation to create a truly effective educational system, one that actually generates intelligent, thoughtful, articulate citizens.

Hell, why should they? After all, the dumber the populace, the easier it is to rule and control and launch unwinnable wars and pass laws telling them that sex is bad and TV is good and God knows all, so just pipe down and eat your Taco Bell Double-Supremo Burrito and be glad we don't arrest you for posting dirty pictures on your cute little blog.

This is about when I try to offer counterevidence, a bit of optimism. For one thing, I've argued generational relativity in this space before, suggesting maybe kids are no scarier or dumber or more dangerous than they've ever been, and that maybe some of the problem is merely the same old awkward generation gap, with every current generation absolutely convinced the subsequent one is terrifically stupid and malicious and will be the end of society as a whole. Just the way it always seems.

I also point out how, despite all the evidence of total public-education meltdown, I keep being surprised, keep hearing from/about teens and youth movements and actions that impress the hell out of me. Damn kids made the Internet what it is today, fer chrissakes. Revolutionized media. Broke all the rules. Still are.

Hell, some of the best designers, writers, artists, poets, chefs, and so on that I meet are in their early to mid-20s. And the nation's top universities are still managing, despite a factory-churning mentality, to crank out young minds of astonishing ability and acumen. How did these kids do it? How did they escape the horrible public school system? How did they avoid the great dumbing down of America? Did they never see a TV show until they hit puberty? Were they all born and raised elsewhere, in India and Asia and Russia? Did they all go to Waldorf or Montessori and eat whole-grain breads and play with firecrackers and take long walks in wild nature? Are these kids flukes? Exceptions? Just lucky?

My friend would say, well, yes, that's precisely what most of them are. Lucky, wealthy, foreign-born, private-schooled ... and increasingly rare. Most affluent parents in America — and many more who aren't — now put their kids in private schools from day one, and the smart ones give their kids no TV and minimal junk food and no video games. (Of course, this in no way guarantees a smart, attuned kid, but compared to the odds of success in the public school system, it sure seems to help). This covers about, what, 3 percent of the populace?

As for the rest, well, the dystopian evidence seems overwhelming indeed, to the point where it might be no stretch at all to say the biggest threat facing America is perhaps not global warming, not perpetual warmongering, not garbage food or low-level radiation or way too much Lindsay Lohan, but a populace far too ignorant to know how to properly manage any of it, much less change it all for the better.

What, too fatalistic? Don't worry. Soon enough, no one will know what the word even means.

Link (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2007/10/24/notes102407.DTL&feed=rss.mmorford)

Guess what? You limit your kids exposure to video games and TV and their IQ shoots up....now there's something TV wont tell you....

jman3000
10-28-2007, 04:40 AM
i agree to an extent... but isnt there always shit like this from old fogies declaring the upcoming generation to be the end of us all?

Nbadan
10-28-2007, 04:49 AM
I"m sure there's some truth to that, however, in today's global world, kids who can't compete in math and science really will be second-class citizens of the global economic community...

Wild Cobra
10-28-2007, 10:18 AM
I disagree. We didn't have those things when I was growing up. We just had other diversions, especially girls... Before the scare of AIDS! I'll bet sex was so much easier to get then than now...

The schools and teachers fail the students, but it goes way beyond that. There are so many different things that break down the desires of the kids from getting all they can from an education. The way I see it, I knew as much by the 8th grade as kids do graduating from High School. I graduated in '78, the year before the Department of Education was formed, relegating all school requirements to the least common denominator.

Spurminator
10-28-2007, 10:22 AM
Kids are no longer shamed by their parents for failing to succeed in school. The parents have passed along their "world is against me" attitude to their kids.

boutons_
10-28-2007, 10:33 AM
The parents fail the kids.

101A
10-28-2007, 09:10 PM
Kids are no longer shamed by their parents for failing to succeed in school. The parents have passed along their "world is against me" attitude to their kids.Perceptive. Many parents do.

I don't.

My kids can read, write, think, run, jump, throw, kick, plant, grow, fight, shoot, fix AND build. (to varying degrees, due to their ages)

As long as we can keep some level of capitilism, they are gonna mop up.

ALVAREZ6
10-28-2007, 09:32 PM
I'm a boss that's all I know.

Steve Irwin
10-28-2007, 09:46 PM
I definitely do not fit into this category.

I am a mothafuckin straight G'd out BOSS!

desflood
10-29-2007, 10:31 AM
This is exactly why my house has a "no tv or video games during the school week" rule. Only on weekends. Even then, for every hour they spend in front of the tv or computer they have to spend another outside playing or doing something with the rest of the family.

TLWisfoine
10-29-2007, 10:44 AM
I"m sure there's some truth to that, however, in today's global world, kids who can't compete in math and science really will be second-class citizens of the global economic community...

You are absolutely right. One of the biggest threats to America is the advancement of technology and with this it is going to eliminate many jobs that used to be done manually. Hell we are seeing the beginning of this right now at your local grocery store. A self checkout, what the hell!!!

Yonivore
10-29-2007, 10:59 AM
Here's my take on it.

There are as many achievers being graduated from High School as there ever was. It doesn't take that many physicists, engineers, economists, etc...to keep this great nation afloat. The difference is that, now, every child is expected to graduate from high school and go on to college. And, every family is convinced their child should achieve academically.

This has led to unrealistic expectations on their own children and it has caused the educational system to start figuring out ways to equalize the students -- self-esteem building, believing that pride leads to achievement instead of the other way round. When that didn't work, they removed competition and eschewed recognition of academic excellence for fear it would hurt feelings and stigmatize those who weren't so intellectually gifted.

Trade programs have been all but eliminated and so, you have an emphasis on those who perform poorly, academically, and who, in my days, would have excelled at wood shop, auto shop, vocational training, etc...

I say we get back to realistic expectations in public education.

xrayzebra
10-29-2007, 11:03 AM
Here's my take on it.

There are as many achievers being graduated from High School as there ever was. It doesn't take that many physicists, engineers, economists, etc...to keep this great nation afloat. The difference is that, now, every child is expected to graduate from high school and go on to college. And, every family is convinced their child should achieve academically.

This has led to unrealistic expectations on their own children and it has caused the educational system to start figuring out ways to equalize the students -- self-esteem building, believing that pride leads to achievement instead of the other way round. When that didn't work, they removed competition and eschewed recognition of academic excellence for fear it would hurt feelings and stigmatize those who weren't so intellectually gifted.

Trade programs have been all but eliminated and so, you have an emphasis on those who perform poorly, academically, and who, in my days, would have excelled at wood shop, auto shop, vocational training, etc...

I say we get back to realistic expectations in public education.


You are right about the Tech schools. Used to every
school district of any size had a Poly Tech for trades
and crafts. No more.

DarkReign
10-29-2007, 11:19 AM
Here's my take on it.

There are as many achievers being graduated from High School as there ever was. It doesn't take that many physicists, engineers, economists, etc...to keep this great nation afloat. The difference is that, now, every child is expected to graduate from high school and go on to college. And, every family is convinced their child should achieve academically.

This has led to unrealistic expectations on their own children and it has caused the educational system to start figuring out ways to equalize the students -- self-esteem building, believing that pride leads to achievement instead of the other way round. When that didn't work, they removed competition and eschewed recognition of academic excellence for fear it would hurt feelings and stigmatize those who weren't so intellectually gifted.

Trade programs have been all but eliminated and so, you have an emphasis on those who perform poorly, academically, and who, in my days, would have excelled at wood shop, auto shop, vocational training, etc...

I say we get back to realistic expectations in public education.

I couldnt agree more. Thats a first. Good take.

Yonivore
10-29-2007, 11:24 AM
I couldnt agree more. Thats a first. Good take.
Cheers!

TLWisfoine
10-29-2007, 11:49 AM
Here's my take on it.

There are as many achievers being graduated from High School as there ever was. It doesn't take that many physicists, engineers, economists, etc...to keep this great nation afloat. The difference is that, now, every child is expected to graduate from high school and go on to college. And, every family is convinced their child should achieve academically.

This has led to unrealistic expectations on their own children and it has caused the educational system to start figuring out ways to equalize the students -- self-esteem building, believing that pride leads to achievement instead of the other way round. When that didn't work, they removed competition and eschewed recognition of academic excellence for fear it would hurt feelings and stigmatize those who weren't so intellectually gifted.

Trade programs have been all but eliminated and so, you have an emphasis on those who perform poorly, academically, and who, in my days, would have excelled at wood shop, auto shop, vocational training, etc...

I say we get back to realistic expectations in public education.

Last I checked illegal immigrants have been taking away those trade jobs from Americans.

smeagol
10-29-2007, 11:53 AM
There is plenty of intelligent posters on this board.

johnsmith
10-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Last I checked illegal immigrants have been taking away those trade jobs from Americans.

Do you know what a trade job is?

johnsmith
10-29-2007, 01:25 PM
Here's my take on it.

There are as many achievers being graduated from High School as there ever was. It doesn't take that many physicists, engineers, economists, etc...to keep this great nation afloat. The difference is that, now, every child is expected to graduate from high school and go on to college. And, every family is convinced their child should achieve academically.

This has led to unrealistic expectations on their own children and it has caused the educational system to start figuring out ways to equalize the students -- self-esteem building, believing that pride leads to achievement instead of the other way round. When that didn't work, they removed competition and eschewed recognition of academic excellence for fear it would hurt feelings and stigmatize those who weren't so intellectually gifted.

Trade programs have been all but eliminated and so, you have an emphasis on those who perform poorly, academically, and who, in my days, would have excelled at wood shop, auto shop, vocational training, etc...

I say we get back to realistic expectations in public education.



You're absolutely right too. I'm constantly amazed at the emphasis on education as it pertains to GPA when we, as in America, can barely find enough qualified people to build up our infrastructure.

Ask anyone in the construction business (1369 will agree), the quality of individuals we have building anything is poor at best.

smeagol
10-29-2007, 01:26 PM
There is plenty of intelligent posters on this board.



Last I checked illegal immigrants have been taking away those trade jobs from Americans.

^ you are not one of them :depressed

td4mvp21
10-29-2007, 02:20 PM
I do agree, I go to high school everyday and it's at the same time pathetic and somewhat laughable at the level of intelligence that many students maintain. Worst of all, they make up that lack of intelligence with a whole lot of ignorance. I think the main problem is teens don't think-for themselves or in general. We want things handed to us on a platter.

"Then our discussion often turns to the meat of it, the bigger picture, the ugly and unavoidable truism about the lack of need among the government and the power elite in this nation to create a truly effective educational system, one that actually generates intelligent, thoughtful, articulate citizens.

Hell, why should they? After all, the dumber the populace, the easier it is to rule and control and launch unwinnable wars and pass laws telling them that sex is bad and TV is good and God knows all, so just pipe down and eat your Taco Bell Double-Supremo Burrito and be glad we don't arrest you for posting dirty pictures on your cute little blog."

I find this the most disturbing, because he's absolutely right. The government can one day be able to do whatever they want and no one will question it. We already see examples like that with the Bush administration. I wish I had the link to an article I have printed out about Bush suddenly saying he was never "stay the course" in Iraq, even though the author cites several quotes where Bush said "we shall stay the course in Iraq." It's very interesting and mind opening. No one seemed to notice, or at least make some sort of outrage. I didn't even notice until I read that article... Even the other day, there was some story on CNN news that the White House ommitted evidence supporting that global warming is happening, just because it didn't agree with what they wanted.



Scientists Denounce Global Warming Report 'Edits'
Public Health Experts Say Edits Represent Censoring of Science
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHealth/story?id=3775766&page=1

Did anyone notice this on the news? Where is the public outcry?

Yonivore
10-29-2007, 02:31 PM
Scientists Denounce Global Warming Report 'Edits'
Public Health Experts Say Edits Represent Censoring of Science
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Health/GlobalHealth/story?id=3775766&page=1

Did anyone notice this on the news? Where is the public outcry?
I think it was mentioned on here but, thanks for the link.

I went to the ABC Story and, after reading this paragraph...

The original, unedited testimony presented to Congress by Dr. Julie Gerberding, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and obtained by ABC News was 14 pages long, but the White House Office of Management and Budget edited the final version down to a mere six pages.
...looked around their story for a link to the original 14 page testimony they claim to have obtained. Unless I overlooked, it's not there.

I'd like to compare the two documents so I can see for myself. Wouldn't you?

td4mvp21
10-29-2007, 02:38 PM
I think it was mentioned on here but, thanks for the link.

I went to the ABC Story and, after reading this paragraph...

...looked around their story for a link to the original 14 page testimony they claim to have obtained. Unless I overlooked, it's not there.

I'd like to compare the two documents so I can see for myself. Wouldn't you?

Yes, I would, so I searched and then went here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21452029/)

Yonivore
10-29-2007, 02:58 PM
Yes, I would, so I searched and then went here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21452029/)
Well, I'm not an expert so, I went looking for the White House's response to the accusation they censored.

Here's what I found (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102401227.html?nav=hcmodule):


"As I understand it, in the draft there was broad characterizations about climate change science that didn't align with the IPCC," Perino [White House Spokeswoman] told reporters yesterday. "When you try to summarize what is a very complicated issue and you have many different experts who have a lot of opinions, and you get testimony less than 24 hours before it's going to be given, you -- scientists across the administration were taking a look at it, and there were a decision that she would focus where she is an expert, which is on CDC."
I think this decision was prudent when you consider what the article reported was said in a portion of the redacted testimony:


In another deleted part of her original testimony, the CDC director predicted that areas in the northern United States "will likely bear the brunt of increases in ground-level ozone and associated airborne pollutants. Populations in mid-western and northeastern cities are expected to experience more heat-related illnesses as heat waves increase in frequency, severity and duration."
For anyone familiar with the global climate change debate, you will immediately recognize the two sentences, quoted above, are not related to one another. Ground level ozone and airborne pollutants are not what IPCC scientists are claiming is causing warming and, thus, the "heat related illnesses" to which the second sentence alludes to as a result of increases in "ground-level ozone and associated airborne pollutants."

Anyway. Sounds like a CDC bureaucrat was preparing to make a political statement before Congress and her bosses, rightly, reigned her in.

td4mvp21
10-29-2007, 03:12 PM
Well, I'm not an expert so, I went looking for the White House's response to the accusation they censored.

Here's what I found (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/24/AR2007102401227.html?nav=hcmodule):


I think this decision was prudent when you consider what the article reported was said in a portion of the redacted testimony:


For anyone familiar with the global climate change debate, you will immediately recognize the two sentences, quoted above, are not related to one another. Ground level ozone and airborne pollutants are not what IPCC scientists are claiming is causing warming and, thus, the "heat related illnesses" to which the second sentence alludes to as a result of increases in "ground-level ozone and associated airborne pollutants."

Anyway. Sounds like a CDC bureaucrat was preparing to make a political statement before Congress and her bosses, rightly, reigned her in.


But several experts on the public health impact of climate change, having reviewed Gerberding's testimony, said there were no inconsistencies between the original testimony and the IPCC's recent reports.

"That's nonsense," said University of Wisconsin at Madison public health professor Jonathan Patz, who served as an IPCC lead author for its 2007, 2001 and 1995 reports. "Dr. Gerberding's testimony was scientifically accurate and absolutely in line with the findings of the IPCC."

So why edit it? That's suspcious to me, especially considering this administration hasn't been one to take up very noticeable concern for the idea of global warming. I think that's downright deceitful. If her report had no inconsistencies or false information, nor lacked credible evidence to support the claims, why should any of it been edited?

Holt's Cat
10-29-2007, 03:29 PM
You are absolutely right. One of the biggest threats to America is the advancement of technology and with this it is going to eliminate many jobs that used to be done manually. Hell we are seeing the beginning of this right now at your local grocery store. A self checkout, what the hell!!!

Down with advancement. Down with advancement.

Yonivore
10-29-2007, 03:36 PM
But several experts on the public health impact of climate change, having reviewed Gerberding's testimony, said there were no inconsistencies between the original testimony and the IPCC's recent reports.
"That's nonsense," in the words of University of Wisconsin at Madison public health professor Jonathan Patz, who served as an IPCC lead author for its 2007, 2001 and 1995 reports. I pointed out a glaring inconsistency with the IPCC report. Ground-level ozone and airborne pollutants have never been claimed, by the IPCC, to be a causal factor in global warm...er, climate change.


So why edit it?
They said why. The CDC Director was out of her area of expertise.


That's suspcious to me, especially considering this administration hasn't been one to take up very noticeable concern for the idea of global warming.
I think you're confusing their dubiousness over anthropogenic global climate change with the fact we all realize the globe is getting somewhat warmer...possibly due to a completely natural cycle over which man can exert absolutely no influence.


I think that's downright deceitful. If her report had no inconsistencies or false information, nor lacked credible evidence to support the claims, why should any of it been edited?
Do you want the head of the NOAA making predictions on the spread of hoof in mouth disease?

Again, the opinion of University of Wisconsin at Madison public health professor Jonathan Patz, who served as an IPCC lead author for its 2007, 2001 and 1995 reports, notwithstanding, the White House's scientific policy director believed there was 1) insufficient time to properly review the testimony, it being submitted a mere 24 hours before it was to be given, 2) inconsistencies with IPCC -- even if not from your view or that of Prof Patz -- from the view of the White House and, I think, aptly demonstrated from that one excerpt I found; and 3) a deviation from the witnesses area of expertise...also demonstrated by the one excerpt I quoted.

Holt's Cat
10-29-2007, 03:46 PM
It's not a coincidence that the performance of American students has declined with the expanding involvement of the federal government in K through 12th grade education over the last four decades.

But the federal government isn't solely to blame. A lot of the problem is cultural. We Americans take educational success for granted. Children are supposed to accomplish at least as much as their parents did, regardless if they have really earned it or not. Everyone is above average. The high school diploma has lost any significance as an indicator of competence and accomplishment. I'd argue the same holds true in many instances for the holder of an undergraduate degree.

We as a society do not have any patience. As anyone who has accomplished anything academically knows, patience is a key component of succeeding in the classroom. We want it all now. We want low taxes and we want the government to spend a lot. We don't have time to wait so we max out our credit cards. We are leveraged to the hilt. Those who study are nerds. Just give me my paper so someone will pay me $100K a year. I'm entitled, damn it.

101A
10-29-2007, 03:55 PM
...The high school diploma has lost any significance as an indicator of competence and accomplishment. I'd argue the same holds true in many instances for the holder of an undergraduate degree.

Absolutely.

The quality of the undergraduate degree, however, varies with the university, and the degree.

B.S. Chemistry >>>>>> B.A. in History >> B.A. in Education

My wife sits on the comittee that reviews applications to the university she teaches at. They pretty much completely ignore high school GPA, class standing, etc.. A candidates attractiveness/ability is judges just about soley on the SAT and ACT. The diploma itself is not an indicator of anything.

Nbadan
10-29-2007, 04:32 PM
Absolutely.

The quality of the undergraduate degree, however, varies with the university, and the degree.

B.S. Chemistry >>>>>> B.A. in History >> B.A. in Education

My wife sits on the comittee that reviews applications to the university she teaches at. They pretty much completely ignore high school GPA, class standing, etc.. A candidates attractiveness/ability is judges just about soley on the SAT and ACT. The diploma itself is not an indicator of anything.


You can make a argument that both the SAT and ACT may not be a valid measurements of complex thought in some areas....although it probably is for the sciences......but probably not for the Business and Humanities....look at that guy Kerkokian who just purchased all that Tesoro stock, didn't graduate from the 8th grade...to make that kinda bread takes cohones that you can't measure on any piece of paper....

101A
10-30-2007, 11:10 AM
You can make a argument that both the SAT and ACT may not be a valid measurements of complex thought in some areas....although it probably is for the sciences......but probably not for the Business and Humanities....look at that guy Kerkokian who just purchased all that Tesoro stock, didn't graduate from the 8th grade...to make that kinda bread takes cohones that you can't measure on any piece of paper....Cojones (sic.)

I bet he would have done just fine on the tests.

And it's not that the tests are all knowing; it's that the grades are completely worthless.

Nbadan
11-02-2007, 04:07 PM
Dropout factories - the interactive map (http://hosted.ap.org/specials/interactives/wdc/dropout/index.html?SITE=AP)