A-Rod opts out

[mardigan]

Rodriguez opts out of $252 million, 10-year contract with Yanks
ESPN.com news services

Updated: October 28, 2007, 10:52 PM ET


DENVER -- Alex Rodriguez opted out of his $252 million, 10-year contract with the New York Yankees on Sunday in what appears to be the end of his career with New York.

Agent Scott Boras said in an e-mail to The Associated Press that Rodriguez had made the decision.

On Saturday, the Yankees asked to meet with the third baseman and league sources told ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney that the team was prepared to make him an offer that would have exceeded, in average salary, the $27 million per year that he was scheduled to make over the next three seasons -- and A-Rod would have be in line to set yet another salary benchmark.

The offer would have been for something in the range of five years -- beyond the three years Rodriguez is already under contract for, from 2008-10 -- and perhaps $30 million a year. The highest per-workday salary earned to date is the $28 million Roger Clemens received, in prorated salary, for a little less than four months of work this season.

Yankees executives, from Hank Steinbrenner to team president Randy Levine to general manager Brian Cashman, have stated repeatedly that if Rodriguez opted out of the contract, they would not participate in any more bidding for the third baseman. With Rodriguez opting out of his current contract, the Yankees will lose $21.3 million in subsidy from the Texas Rangers, the team that signed Rodriguez to his current $252 million deal after the 2000 season.

Some executives are convinced that no other team will come close to the enormous extension offer the Yankees intended to make, and rival agents and executives are reading the steady stream of public negotiation rhetoric from agent Scott Boras as a bluff. But some officials cite Boras's history of taking his clients into free agency, and say they think Rodriguez will leave the Yankees.

ESPN The Magazine senior writer Buster Olney and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3084583

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Down to Chicago he goes...

[T Park]

Starting at Short for your Los Angeles Angels, ALEX RODDDDDRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEGUEZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Book it.

[SrA Husker]

Last 5 Years:

World Series Victories:
NYY: 0
BOS: 2

World Series Appearances:
NYY: 1
BOS: 2

Postseason Record:
NYY: 19-22
BOS: 28-15

(assuming manny and papi don't fall flat on their face for the next 6 rockie outs)

And with Torre Clemens and A-Rod gone, plus probably a few more veterans, the Yankees are realizing they are a second thought in their own division.

I LOVE IT.

[tlongII]

I think ARod will go to the Sox.

[duncan228]

I know there's lots of reasons he did this, but how big a part was Torre's walking play into it?

[Jimcs50]

I think ARod will go to the Sox.


Not at Mike Lowell's expense I hope.

Now, if A Rod plays SS in place of Lugo, that is another story. :toast But no way can they afford to keep Lowell and sign A Rod, so I do not see him in Boston.

[tlongII]

Not at Mike Lowell's expense I hope.

Now, if A Rod plays SS in place of Lugo, that is another story. :toast But no way can they afford to keep Lowell and sign A Rod, so I do not see him in Boston.

Lowell is gone in my opinion.

[K-State Spur]

most teams, maybe even the bosox, would regret dumping that a high percentage of their entire payroll to just one player.

if his return is that valuable in relation to his salary, there's no way that the Yankees would allow him to leave. it should say A LOT that the MFYs weren't even willing to take on his entire salary at $25/year (they required the rangers to add a subsidy).

[Jimcs50]

Lowell is gone in my opinion.


Yeah, and you said Colorado will sweep the Sox...so you can imagine what cedence I put in your opinions.

:)

[tlongII]

Yeah, and you said Colorado will sweep the Sox...so you can imagine what cedence I put in your opinions.

:)

Dude, I just said that to piss you off. Lowell is going to command big money after the year he had. I think the Sox will let him walk and splurge on ARod.

[Jimcs50]

Dude, I just said that to piss you off. Lowell is going to command big money after the year he had. I think the Sox will let him walk and splurge on ARod.


Dude, I know you said that to piss me off...I am just busting your chops for it.

:)


Boston will pay a lot, but will only give him 2 years, since he is going to be 34 yrs old...another team might go 4 yrs, that is the only question.

I would think that Lowell will want to stay, this team can win 3 more WS rings, easily.

[K-State Spur]

not easily (this one wasn't easy, one lights out start by Sabathia or Carmona last week would have kept the bosox out of the series), but they are still young enough to be a factor without turning over their roster.

[JamStone]

I don't know the financial situation of the Phillies, but they might be an interesting option for A-Rod. They have great power lefties in the middle of their line-up with Utley and Howard, and A-Rod could fit nicely in between at the clean-up spot.

I'm sure the Cubs, Mets, Red Sox, Dodgers will all call, but which among them can really afford a long-term contract worth upwards of $25 million?

[Spurminator]

I can't believe he would opt out without a verbal deal already in place, and one greater than what he would have gotten by staying. And the only team I can imagine paying him that, other than the Yankees, is Boston.

And yet, I have this crazy feeling he's going to be signed by a team no one expected. Tampa Bay? Toronto?

[Jimcs50]

I can't believe he would opt out without a verbal deal already in place, and one greater than what he would have gotten by staying. And the only team I can imagine paying him that, other than the Yankees, is Boston.

And yet, I have this crazy feeling he's going to be signed by a team no one expected. Tampa Bay? Toronto?

:lol

Tampa Bay? He makes more than their whole team put together...I am sure team chemistry would be great if he went there.

:p:

[resistanze]

I can't believe he would opt out without a verbal deal already in place, and one greater than what he would have gotten by staying. And the only team I can imagine paying him that, other than the Yankees, is Boston.

And yet, I have this crazy feeling he's going to be signed by a team no one expected. Tampa Bay? Toronto?
God I hope so :lmao

[Jimcs50]

God I hope so :lmao


You have a better chance of getting Paul Molitar again. :lol

[Spurminator]

:lol

Tampa Bay? He makes more than their whole team put together...I am sure team chemistry would be great if he went there.

:p:


What do they have to lose? They suck, they will never compete with the Yankees or Red Sox, and the only way to get fans in the seats is to sign a superstar. They can certainly afford him given their payroll. He'll fill seats, and for him, it gives him a chance to play close to home and in a stress-free environment where he can just concentrate on putting up HOF numbers.

[Tippecanoe]

arod will be angel or a cub, depending on who offers more dough

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I can't believe he would opt out without a verbal deal already in place, and one greater than what he would have gotten by staying. And the only team I can imagine paying him that, other than the Yankees, is Boston.

And yet, I have this crazy feeling he's going to be signed by a team no one expected. Tampa Bay? Toronto?

Possibly, but I remember Cashman saying they were adamant they really wanted to keep Tom Hicks' money paying part of the salary. An extension would have allowed that.

[CubanMustGo]

Hey $CDN are worth more than $US right now ...

[Melmart1]

I hope he becomes a Cub so that he is in the NL and I won't have to hear about him as much, being a Rangers fan.

[K-State Spur]

What do they have to lose? They suck, they will never compete with the Yankees or Red Sox, and the only way to get fans in the seats is to sign a superstar. They can certainly afford him given their payroll. He'll fill seats, and for him, it gives him a chance to play close to home and in a stress-free environment where he can just concentrate on putting up HOF numbers.

actually, tampa is loaded with young talent. in a couple of years, they could be what cleveland was this year.

[tlongII]

I hope he becomes a Cub so that he is in the NL and I won't have to hear about him as much, being a Rangers fan.

That would be nice. As an M's fan I don't want to hear about that pos prima donna either.

[monosylab1k]

HELL FUCKING YES all that A-Rod money is off the Rangers' book (how fucking stupid is it that we agreed to pay part of his salary when trading him to the YANKEES???!?!) and of course with all this extra money we can fully expect Tom Hicks to......pocket it and not think twice about possibly putting it to good use in the organization....fuck.... :depressed

[slayermin]

Starting at Short for your Los Angeles Angels, ALEX RODDDDDRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEGUEZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

Book it.

They have O.C. at short. ARod playing third would make more sense.

[Erect as a Bull]

:lol @ Jimc and Tlong.

Its sad that A-rods days in New York are gone :(
But he needs the money to pay for his family so I dont blame the guy.

[ATRAIN]

The astros need a 3rd baseman!! :)

[resistanze]

You have a better chance of getting Paul Molitar again. :lol
I was hoping more of a comeback for Roberto Alomar but Molitor will do...

[Thunder Dan]

He is going to the Dodgers...book it...set in stone. They need a big bat, a big name, and he can play either short of 3rd. The Angels won't spend the money, but the Dodgers want to spend the money. Book it

[Jimcs50]

I was hoping more of a comeback for Roberto Alomar but Molitor will do...


That 93 team was loaded. I was pulling for Philly, they had their hands full with that Toronto club, which was playing their asses off that post season, for sure.

[Thunder Dan]

Here in Cleveland we already have a future Hall of Famer at 3rd.... Casey Blake and his beard.

But AROD isn't going to the Cubs b/c the sale won't be final before Spring. He will be a Dodger, book it

[Jimcs50]

Here in Cleveland we already have a future Hall of Famer at 3rd.... Casey Blake and his beard.

Blake did a real nice job, he had a couple of bad plays that hurt his post season, but he is a real good player.

[Thunder Dan]

Blake did a real nice job, he had a couple of bad plays that hurt his post season, but he is a real good player.

Yeah he is decent. The Indians love him because they are cheap and he plays basically every position other than pitcher and catcher. But AROD is on a different level. I just joke around because I always joke with my friends that Casey Blake is the next ARod, and that I would rather have him than Arod. Sometimes they actually think I'm serious.

[BeerIsGood!]

All I know is that if a team signs him to be a leader and expect him to lead, then that team isn't winning a WS. The only way a team wins a WS with him is if they can overcome his suckiness come October, but with all the money that will be going his way I don't see anyone overcoming that part of the deal. I can't understand why anyone would pay anything more than half of his current deal for a guy who turns gutless when it counts. It's like if Dirk had great regular seasons and completely choked and disappeared in the playoffs every year since 2002, but still got the biggest contract in the NBA. That's just dumb.

[DarkReign]

A-Rod opts out.....

...on the same day that the Sox win the WS. All class, that A-Rod. Glad Peter Gammons noticed and said something about it. A-Rod is a hoser.

[JamStone]

All I know is that if a team signs him to be a leader and expect him to lead, then that team isn't winning a WS. The only way a team wins a WS with him is if they can overcome his suckiness come October, but with all the money that will be going his way I don't see anyone overcoming that part of the deal. I can't understand why anyone would pay anything more than half of his current deal for a guy who turns gutless when it counts. It's like if Dirk had great regular seasons and completely choked and disappeared in the playoffs every year since 2002, but still got the biggest contract in the NBA. That's just dumb.


Leadership in baseball is overrated. It's all about performance under pressure. A-Rod has sucked the last three post-seasons, but he alone isn't the reason the Yankees lost in any of the last three playoffs. Pitching, pitching, pitching. A-Rod is not the only one who sucked it up in a supposed superstar line-up.

[Melmart1]

A-Rod opts out.....

...on the same day that the Sox win the WS. All class, that A-Rod. Glad Peter Gammons noticed and said something about it. A-Rod is a hoser.
I doubt it was A-Rod, it was probably Boras. He is the one who told the announcers about it because he knew it was the last big national stage for baseball if the Sox won. I bet A-Rod made his decision a few days ago and BorASS decided to wait until he could get the most possible attention. He is known for his antics.

And that being said, yeah ... it sucks, what an ass. I am BEYOND tired of hearing about the Yankees during the WS, considering they haven't been there in 7 years.

[K-State Spur]

Leadership in baseball is overrated. It's all about performance under pressure. A-Rod has sucked the last three post-seasons, but he alone isn't the reason the Yankees lost in any of the last three playoffs. Pitching, pitching, pitching. A-Rod is not the only one who sucked it up in a supposed superstar line-up.

Agreed. Miguel Tejada used to be labeled as one of the best leaders in baseball. A guy who simply 'willed' his team to victory and wouldn't allow them to collapse.

Has anyone payed attention to the O's in recent years? (Did Tejada simply forget how to lead?)

[ATRAIN]

I doubt it was A-Rod, it was probably Boras. He is the one who told the announcers about it because he knew it was the last big national stage for baseball if the Sox won. I bet A-Rod made his decision a few days ago and BorASS decided to wait until he could get the most possible attention. He is known for his antics.

And that being said, yeah ... it sucks, what an ass. I am BEYOND tired of hearing about the Yankees during the WS, considering they haven't been there in 7 years.


I hate Boras!!

[DOMINATOR]

I doubt it was A-Rod, it was probably Boras. He is the one who told the announcers about it because he knew it was the last big national stage for baseball if the Sox won. I bet A-Rod made his decision a few days ago and BorASS decided to wait until he could get the most possible attention. He is known for his antics.

And that being said, yeah ... it sucks, what an ass. I am BEYOND tired of hearing about the Yankees during the WS, considering they haven't been there in 7 years.
yep he saw the sox were going to win. if the rockies were ahead he would have waited until the last game of the WS. that guy is an asshole.

[JamStone]

And that being said, yeah ... it sucks, what an ass. I am BEYOND tired of hearing about the Yankees during the WS, considering they haven't been there in 7 years.

Yankees were in the World Series 4 years ago in 2003.

[MajorMike]

You can be certain that one team he will not go to is StL. They have long not dealt with Boras. Unless the new GM (to be named) is his buddy, he likely won't even get a call from them.

[Spawn]

A-Rod opts out.....

...on the same day that the Sox win the WS. All class, that A-Rod. Glad Peter Gammons noticed and said something about it. A-Rod is a hoser.

Class in professional sports? Surely you jest!!! If I was A-Rod I would do the same thing, he doesn't owe them anything.

[ducks]

I think he ends up in boston
lowe will go somewhere where they offer him 3-4 years boston will not want to offer him more then 2

[Reggie Miller]

Here in Cleveland we already have a future Hall of Famer at 3rd.... Casey Blake and his beard.

But AROD isn't going to the Cubs b/c the sale won't be final before Spring. He will be a Dodger, book it

If Rodriguez is serious about participation in ownership, the Cubs can't sign him. Any sale cannot be approved until the next winter meetings.

It looks like the Braves and White Sox have been positioning themselves to make a run at Rodriguez. I can't see him wanting to go to the White Sox, because of their "second team" status and brutal division. If Atlanta were a bigger national media market, the Braves would make a lot of sense. (I would think he would want to go to the NL over the AL.)

Detroit does not seem interested, based on their acquisition of Renteria.

[K-State Spur]

If Rodriguez is serious about participation in ownership, the Cubs can't sign him.

That was Boras posturing. MLB rules prohibit any current or promise of future ownership in a player's contract.

[K-State Spur]

Without the MFYs involved in the bidding, it may not get up to the $25 million per year that he was making.

[Reggie Miller]

That was Boras posturing. MLB rules prohibit any current or promise of future ownership in a player's contract.

I suspected that, but a friend of mine swore up and down that it was permitted.

I think you are correct. Without the Yankees driving up the price and/or bidding against themselves, Rodriguez may be a little surprised.

From a pure baseball standpoint, Atlanta looks pretty good: reasonable stadium dimensions, decent weather (not the best, but certainly not the worst), NL pitching, tame media, and no real competition for attention (C. Jones and Smoltz don't care). I assume Cox and Torre have similar styles in day to day conduct of operations, but Cox may be seen as a negative. (Both the Yankees and Braves have a lot of internal rules, but Cox is more volatile.) Rodriguez likes Piniella, who is a red ass, so who knows?

Atlanta has definitely positioned itself to make an offer. By letting Andruw Jones walk, trading Renteria, and clearing Wickman, they are down to close to $50 million/year. That gives them about $30 million, and I have not even addressed the new ownership. (I would assume they would spend a little more to make a splash.)

I would make the same argument about the Cubs, but their timing is wrong to get a deal done. Overspending on Soriano may cost them this opportunity anyway.

[DarkReign]

Class in professional sports? Surely you jest!!! If I was A-Rod I would do the same thing, he doesn't owe them anything.

He owes them everything.

[Reggie Miller]

By letting Andruw Jones walk, trading Renteria, and clearing Wickman, they are down to close to $50 million/year. That gives them about $30 million, and I have not even addressed the new ownership. (I would assume they would spend a little more to make a splash.)

Hampton's salary was fully insured. If someone bothers to check this, it will show closer to $62 million (including his salary).

[BeerIsGood!]

Leadership in baseball is overrated. It's all about performance under pressure. A-Rod has sucked the last three post-seasons, but he alone isn't the reason the Yankees lost in any of the last three playoffs. Pitching, pitching, pitching. A-Rod is not the only one who sucked it up in a supposed superstar line-up.


I didn't say he was the only one sucking on that team, but the fact remains that he put up all sorts of regular season numbers at Texas but was bitching constantly about not playing in October. He got his wish and the chance to play in October, but became a weak .100's hitter when he got there time and time again. All $30 million a year couldn't get a clutch hit when it counted.

Since we know from experience that he disappears in the clutch and in October, would any sane GM pay another $30 million a season or more to get that? Any that do are only looking for regular season production and maybe some ticket sales since winning obviously isn't a priority.

Leadership is needed in baseball just as in every sport, but the leadership tends to be more behind the scenes than in the open. There has never been a team that won a WS with no direction or leadership.

[K-State Spur]

Atlanta is LOADED with SS prospects.

They already have Yunel Escobar, who was effective at the big leagues last year (.836 OPS and only 4 errors in 53 games at short).

Brent Lillibridge may be ready by middle of 2008, and Elvis Andrus may have the highest ceiling of all with a 2009 ETA.


That may mean nothing, but I don't think you can read too much into the Renteria trade as clearing space for A-Rod either.

[Spawn]

He owes them everything.

I'll admit you probably know much more about this than I do so humor me, why does he owe them anything?

[Reggie Miller]

Atlanta is LOADED with SS prospects.

They already have Yunel Escobar, who was effective at the big leagues last year (.836 OPS and only 4 errors in 53 games at short).

Brent Lillibridge may be ready by middle of 2008, and Elvis Andrus may have the highest ceiling of all with a 2009 ETA.


That may mean nothing, but I don't think you can read too much into the Renteria trade as clearing space for A-Rod either.

I actually thought that Atlanta would move C. Jones to another position and play Rodriguez at 3B. The Braves have a logjam of outfileders and middle infielders who will play at MLB level. With Saltamaachia (sp?) gone, they don't have to worry about finding a spot for him anymore. You could play Chipper at one of the corner outfiled spots or 1B. (Jones has shown he doesn't care about changing positions; I don't know about Texeira.) The outfield would be Francouer, C. Jones (or Texeira), and a platoon of Diaz/Harris.

Bluntly, there are only a few teams that I follow well enough to know their salary/budget situation and farm system. Atlanta is one of them, and they just happended to clear about $30 million. You may well be right, and it is only a coincidence. However, look at how tough their lineup would become. You would basically have an offense capable of beating an AL team.

Just a thought, really. They may be going after a starting pitcher, which they need more than another bat, but I can't figure out who that would be.

[K-State Spur]

Jones has expressed a preference for third, although I'm sure he'd move again if Cox really wanted him to.

Texeira will play 1B or be traded. He's not the quickest guy in the world, but he is a great defensive 1B. So, if you moved him to the OF, you'd be likely weakening your defense at TWO positions.

I don't deny that Atlanta has the money to sign ARod. But they have also shown a reluctance towards spending a large percentage of their payroll on a single player.

But we'll see if he actually holds out for $30 million. I can't think of a single team that could responsibly spend that amount of money on him. And the teams that would be willing to do irresponsibly have already seen what it did to the Rangers, and that contract was for the years that encompassed his prime. It's highly likely that ARod will be on the decline within 2-3 years. In fact, he made have already had his best seasons.

[Reggie Miller]

Jones has expressed a preference for third, although I'm sure he'd move again if Cox really wanted him to.

Texeira will play 1B or be traded. He's not the quickest guy in the world, but he is a great defensive 1B. So, if you moved him to the OF, you'd be likely weakening your defense at TWO positions.

I don't deny that Atlanta has the money to sign ARod. But they have also shown a reluctance towards spending a large percentage of their payroll on a single player.

But we'll see if he actually holds out for $30 million. I can't think of a single team that could responsibly spend that amount of money on him. And the teams that would be willing to do irresponsibly have already seen what it did to the Rangers, and that contract was for the years that encompassed his prime. It's highly likely that ARod will be on the decline within 2-3 years. In fact, he made have already had his best seasons.

More than anything else, that makes me think that they aren't going after him. The Braves don't like to do long-term deals, either. IIRC, they let Maddux walk over years, not the money itself.

It's hard to make a generalization like this, but by and large, the Braves don't like to spend big money on anything but pitching. (Paying Glavine, Smoltz, and Maddux close to what they were worth for a decade obviously skewed this a bit.)

[Melmart1]

Atlanta is LOADED with SS prospects.

They already have Yunel Escobar, who was effective at the big leagues last year (.836 OPS and only 4 errors in 53 games at short).

Brent Lillibridge may be ready by middle of 2008, and Elvis Andrus may have the highest ceiling of all with a 2009 ETA.


That may mean nothing, but I don't think you can read too much into the Renteria trade as clearing space for A-Rod either.
Actually, Andrus was a part of the Teixeira trade.

I don't think Boras sees Atlanta as a good fit right now. There are too many dollar signs in his eyes. But since they are NL, I personally wouldn't mind it in the least.

[K-State Spur]

Actually, Andrus was a part of the Teixeira trade.


Ouch, good point.

[Melmart1]

Ouch, good point.
That's OK, I went brain dead and put the wrong year for when Yanks were last in the WS earlier in the thread. I meant to say the last year they won, not the last year they got there :lol

[K-State Spur]

the baseball cube, for all its greatness, lists the most recent season at the bottom. however, for some reason they list the most recent stats (and team) within a season at the top of that row. (hence, his 2007 minor league stats appear BELOW his 2006 minor league stats, but his 2007 texas stats appear ABOVE his 2007 atlanta stats; so if you go to the very bottom of his stat line, it's 2007 atlanta.)

IT'S TOTAL ANARCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dbreiden83080]

A-Rod is the biggest most selfish clown in Sports. Yanks were going to offer him an extension worth 30 mil a year likely for 5 or 6 years on top of the 3 years and 81 mil he had left on his deal and that was so low he opted out without even meeting with them. This guy is a fucking piece of shit and then some.

[Melmart1]

A-Rod is the biggest most selfish clown in Sports. Yanks were going to offer him an extension worth 30 mil a year likely for 5 or 6 years on top of the 3 years and 81 mil he had left on his deal and that was so low he opted out without even meeting with them. This guy is a fucking piece of shit and then some.
He is already rich beyond his wildest dreams. As much as I don't care for A-Rod I don't think he is doing this for money. The money is all Boras. I think he just wants to win and it's pretty obvious from the state of the Yankees right now that they are not going to win anything anytime soon. I bet they don't even make the playoffs next year.

[BeerIsGood!]

A-Rod just wants to win? Tell him to actually hit a fucking baseball in October. That would help.

[Spurminator]

I think he's just sick of New York. You get booed by your own fans, you get stalked by the paparazzi, your owner shits on your coach at every opportunity... Why on earth should he want to remain with the Yankees?

[dbreiden83080]

He is already rich beyond his wildest dreams. As much as I don't care for A-Rod I don't think he is doing this for money. The money is all Boras. I think he just wants to win and it's pretty obvious from the state of the Yankees right now that they are not going to win anything anytime soon. I bet they don't even make the playoffs next year.

He just wants to win, well then leaving the Yanks is the dumbest move he could make and then some. You know the last time the Yanks missed the playoffs? 1994 and that was because of the baseball strike, they were in 1st place that year. They spend more money than anyone in baseball. Other than the Red Sox name me another team that can afford him and will give him the same chance to win every year like the Yanks do??

[Melmart1]

He just wants to win, well then leaving the Yanks is the dumbest move he could make and then some. You know the last time the Yanks missed the playoffs? 1994 and that was because of the baseball strike, they were in 1st place that year. They spend more money than anyone in baseball. Other than the Red Sox name me another team that can afford him and will give him the same chance to win every year like the Yanks do??
Do you realize the current state the Yanks are in? Just cus they have been in the playoffs for years and years doesn't mean they are in a good state now. Their future is very uncertain. Too many question marks, particularly in their bullpen and rotation. Plus, he has never been the type to be able to take criticism very well, making NYC a bad fit.

[slayermin]

According to Jayson Stark on ESPN, Boras is looking for a 12 year contract for ARod at $30mil a year. That is just nuts. $360 million contract? He also mentioned Detroit as a major player because Boras has a good relationship with them.

But Stark did pick the Rockies so what does he know.

[dbreiden83080]

Do you realize the current state the Yanks are in? Just cus they have been in the playoffs for years and years doesn't mean they are in a good state now. Their future is very uncertain. Too many question marks, particularly in their bullpen and rotation. Plus, he has never been the type to be able to take criticism very well, making NYC a bad fit.

Well lets see, i live in NY and am a huge Yankees fan, yeah i would say i am well versed in the Yanks and their current state.

BullPen- Mo will Re-Sign, he has loyalty to the Yanks and he will get the most money from them, no way they allow him to not retire in pinstripes.

Rotation- Pettitte will come back and he's still a big game pitcher. Wang while he stunk in the playoffs has won 19 games each of the last 2 years. Jabba Chamberlain is the best pitching prospect in all of baseball who dominated out of the pen this year and he is apparently going to start next year. Yanks also have Phil Hughes, a very young talented pitcher who will start and Ian Kennedy, in fact they have the most versatile group of young arms in the majors these days with tremendous upside.

Payroll- Yanks have the highest payroll in MLB and that is not going to change anytime soon. They make more money than anyone in MLB by far. Their TV network YES, is worth something like 3 billion all by itself, they drew 4 million fans this year. They have ownership that is all about winning they will spend the money to make that happen year in and year out.

With A-Rod or without A-Rod Yanks will be in prime position to make the playoffs next year just like always and if they don't they will re-stock in the offseason and make a run at it next year. My inital comment i stand by. Other than the Red Sox, the Yanks give him his best shot to win by far.

[dbreiden83080]

According to Jayson Stark on ESPN, Boras is looking for a 12 year contract for ARod at $30mil a year. That is just nuts. $360 million contract? He also mentioned Detroit as a major player because Boras has a good relationship with them.

But Stark did pick the Rockies so what does he know.

He will get 30 mil a year but a 12 year deal is a pipe dream for Boras and he knows it. A-Rod will be 33 next year this is not a young player anymore. Figure he is out of his prime by what 38, 39, 40 tops and that is really pushing it. So you will be paying him 30 mil a year all the way until he is 45 years old and WAY WAY past his prime. No chance at that, any team that gives him that kind of deal needs to be dismantled because they are friggin morons.

[Melmart1]

Well lets see, i live in NY and am a huge Yankees fan, yeah i would say i am well versed in the Yanks and their current state.

BullPen- Mo will Re-Sign, he has loyalty to the Yanks and he will get the most money from them, no way they allow him to not retire in pinstripes.

Rotation- Pettitte will come back and he's still a big game pitcher. Wang while he stunk in the playoffs has won 19 games each of the last 2 years. Jabba Chamberlain is the best pitching prospect in all of baseball who dominated out of the pen this year and he is apparently going to start next year. Yanks also have Phil Hughes, a very young talented pitcher who will start and Ian Kennedy, in fact they have the most versatile group of young arms in the majors these days with tremendous upside.

Payroll- Yanks have the highest payroll in MLB and that is not going to change anytime soon. They make more money than anyone in MLB by far. Their TV network YES, is worth something like 3 billion all by itself, they drew 4 million fans this year. They have ownership that is all about winning they will spend the money to make that happen year in and year out.

With A-Rod or without A-Rod Yanks will be in prime position to make the playoffs next year just like always and if they don't they will re-stock in the offseason and make a run at it next year. My inital comment i stand by. Other than the Red Sox, the Yanks give him his best shot to win by far.
Do you realize how you sound? Mo WILL re-sign. Pettitte WILL come back. Hughes and Kennedy are good, I will give you that. BUT, how will they do in what will essentially be thier rookie years against some VERY tough AL opponents? You are banking all your Yankee dreams on POTENTIAL free agent signings and (potential) breakout years from young pitchers, and not FACTS.

Other than who has been called up, the Yankees are a bit thin in the farm. Not the worst but definitely nothing to write home about. And a new manager to boot. Can your new man massage the egos in the clubhouse like Torre could?

And you say the Yanks will make the playoffs. GREAT! But if someone wants to WIN, they want to do more than make the playoffs. And if you (or anyone else) thought that the Yanks were going to do anything other than bow out in the divisional series this year, then you were kidding yourselves. Without some MAJOR restructuring, the same thing would happen IF the Yanks make the playoffs next year. Big "IF."

[dbreiden83080]

Do you realize how you sound? Mo WILL re-sign. Pettitte WILL come back.

They will, see you in a few weeks when that happens.



Hughes and Kennedy are good, I will give you that. BUT, how will they do in what will essentially be thier rookie years against some VERY tough AL opponents? You are banking all your Yankee dreams on POTENTIAL free agent signings and (potential) breakout years from young pitchers, and not FACTS.

No what i am doing is pointing out to you what kind of talent the team has in their system and the abilities they have as an organization to keep themselves in a winning position. Nothing is guranteed in sports but they Yanks have 2 things that give them a leg up. A talented roster and a shitload of money to spend.



Can your new man massage the egos in the clubhouse like Torre could?
We'll see i loved Torre and he will be hard to replace but Girardi is highly touted as a manager so i do believe at the very least he will be a good in game manager.



And you say the Yanks will make the playoffs. GREAT! But if someone wants to WIN, they want to do more than make the playoffs. And if you (or anyone else) thought that the Yanks were going to do anything other than bow out in the divisional series this year, then you were kidding yourselves. Without some MAJOR restructuring, the same thing would happen IF the Yanks make the playoffs next year. Big "IF."

So you want to go to a team were you are all but a lock to not just make the playoffs but win in the playoffs. Well gee, what team would that be other than the Red Sox? You still have not answered that one. Yanks were the only team that made it back to the playoffs in the AL this year that was in it last year, did you know that? Making it is the hardest part and they were favored to win the LDS they just got lousy pitching from Wang, who is far better than what he showed.

[K-State Spur]

Do you realize how you sound? Mo WILL re-sign. Pettitte WILL come back. Hughes and Kennedy are good, I will give you that. BUT, how will they do in what will essentially be thier rookie years against some VERY tough AL opponents? You are banking all your Yankee dreams on POTENTIAL free agent signings and (potential) breakout years from young pitchers, and not FACTS.

Other than who has been called up, the Yankees are a bit thin in the farm. Not the worst but definitely nothing to write home about. And a new manager to boot. Can your new man massage the egos in the clubhouse like Torre could?

And you say the Yanks will make the playoffs. GREAT! But if someone wants to WIN, they want to do more than make the playoffs. And if you (or anyone else) thought that the Yanks were going to do anything other than bow out in the divisional series this year, then you were kidding yourselves. Without some MAJOR restructuring, the same thing would happen IF the Yanks make the playoffs next year. Big "IF."

I'm a Birds fan and loathe the MFYs. But it's tough to see them being down for more than a year or two. While huge spending doesn't always equal playoff berths, the Yankees are somewhat immune to that because they are the one team in baseball that can afford to eat their mistakes.

Anybody who makes the playoffs is a threat to win them. The 2006 Cardinals should have taught everybody that.

[Melmart1]

They will, see you in a few weeks when that happens.

Still banking on 'maybes.'



No what i am doing is pointing out to you what kind of talent the team has in their system and the abilities they have as an organization to keep themselves in a winning position. Nothing is guranteed in sports but they Yanks have 2 things that give them a leg up. A talented roster and a shitload of money to spend.

You have yet to point out what kind of "talent" the Yanks have in their system. If you don't include Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain, who are the top Yankees prospects? What will they bring to the table next season? You are banking on buying players, like the Yankees always do. Guess what? The bullpen and pitching FAs are not that great this year!



We'll see i loved Torre and he will be hard to replace but Girardi is highly touted as a manager so i do believe at the very least he will be a good in game manager.

Again, baking on 'maybes.'



So you want to go to a team were you are all but a lock to not just make the playoffs but win in the playoffs. Well gee, what team would that be other than the Red Sox? You still have not answered that one. Yanks were the only team that made it back to the playoffs in the AL this year that was in it last year, did you know that? Making it is the hardest part and they were favored to win the LDS they just got lousy pitching from Wang, who is far better than what he showed.

I didn't say I wanted a team who is a lock. I said A-Rod probably does. And though I honestly think no such team exists in MLB right now, the Yankees are definitely NOT on the top of the list of potential locks. Not for next year. Not for awhile.

[dbreiden83080]

Anybody who makes the playoffs is a threat to win them. The 2006 Cardinals should have taught everybody that.

That's right and they have not missed the playoffs since 1994 the strike season and they were in 1st place when that happened, this is not a rebuilding season for the Yanks there is no such thing for them. They have a talented roster and truck load of resources so other than Boston the Yanks are A-Rods best best at winning a WS every year, PERIOD.

[Melmart1]

I'm a Birds fan and loathe the MFYs. But it's tough to see them being down for more than a year or two. While huge spending doesn't always equal playoff berths, the Yankees are somewhat immune to that because they are the one team in baseball that can afford to eat their mistakes.

Anybody who makes the playoffs is a threat to win them. The 2006 Cardinals should have taught everybody that.
I didn't say they would be down forever. But I honestly think there is too much influx for them to make the playoffs next year. And even if they do, it will be like this year... wildcard, then one and done. I don't buy into the hype. They are finally seeing the end result of buying every mercenary on the market. Their pitching will be mediocre at best and that just won't be enough in the AL next year. Just my own bold prediction.

[K-State Spur]

they're certainly not a lock.

they'll have a huge hole at 3b, and no huge free agents are out there to fill it.

Jeter, Giambi, Damon, Posada (assuming he re-signs), and Abreu are old enough that their best seasons are likely behind them - not to say any of the group (maybe Damon and Giambi) will fall off the end of the world just yet.

Cabrera and Cano are nice young players who can still improve, but both continue to show awful plate discipline which may never come around.

Moose's best days are long behind him. Pettite may retire. Rivera's (assuming he re-signs) still good, but no longer the dominant force that he was. Wang's a reliable starter, but his peripheral stats still point to him being very lucky to put up the overall numbers that he does.

Banking on multiple young pitcher's with a lot of hype and a lot of upside usually doesn't work out immediately (look at the Orioles' starting rotation - a couple of years ago, they were running out Bedard, Cabrera, and Loewen; 3 of the best arms in all of baseball. It's 2007 now and only Bedard has come around).

[dbreiden83080]

Still banking on 'maybes.'
You have yet to point out what kind of "talent" the Yanks have in their system. If you don't include Hughes, Kennedy or Chamberlain, who are the top Yankees prospects? What will they bring to the table next season? You are banking on buying players, like the Yankees always do. Guess what? The bullpen and pitching FAs are not that great this year!

They don't need a ton of top prospects that are position players they are loaded with them with pitching and you can never have enough good starting pitching. Look at this likely rotation next year.

Wang
Pettitte
Chamberlain
Hughes
Mussina/Kennedy

That is very formidable and while Jabba and Hughes may not be locks to have good years they will be fielding basically the same position players minus A-Rod that helped them win 94 games last year. Yanks will find someone to help fill the void that A-Rod leaves and before you tell me that is impossible, remember Yanks won WS titles with Scott Brosius at 3rd base.



Again, baking on 'maybes.'

More like probabilities that are in my favor.




I didn't say I wanted a team who is a lock. I said A-Rod probably does. And though I honestly think no such team exists in MLB right now, the Yankees are definitely NOT on the top of the list of potential locks. Not for next year. Not for awhile.

Yanks are about as big a lock as you can find in pro-sports these days to be in the playoffs every year. 13 for 13 in the last 13 years says it all on that one my man. They are talented, rich and motivated, that is all you need.

[K-State Spur]

they will be fielding basically the same position players minus A-Rod that helped them win 94 games last year. Yanks will find someone to help fill the void that A-Rod leaves and before you tell me that is impossible, remember Yanks won WS titles with Scott Brosius at 3rd base.


They're all gonna be a year older though, and statistically could be dropping out of their primes at any point (it may have already happened with Giambi and Damon).

As for 3B, look at the free agent list and tell me who is even as good as Brosius was?

[dbreiden83080]

They're all gonna be a year older though, and statistically could be dropping out of their primes at any point (it may have already happened with Giambi and Damon).

As for 3B, look at the free agent list and tell me who is even as good as Brosius was?

Giambi is a BUM we all know this and accept this but Damon while not in his prime is still a good hitter and has turned into a decent left fielder as well, yielding to Melky in Center.

As far as 3b goes, well Brosius by the numbers was pretty bad so lets not go nuts on him but it is possible they will go into next year with just Wilson Betemit at 3rd. While i am not in love with that idea it is not the end of the world either. He is a decent hitter and i am not convinced they are out of the A-Rod sweepstakes anyway because you are right the FA market does suck this year.

[Melmart1]

Yankee homerism at its finest. You keep dreaming. The Yankees will not make the World Series next year. They will be lucky to make the playoffs.

[dbreiden83080]

Yankee homerism at its finest. You keep dreaming. The Yankees will not make the World Series next year. They will be lucky to make the playoffs.

I never said they would make the World Series i said by the numbers they are in great shape to make the playoffs, 13 for their last 13 does not lie pal. Other than the Red Sox the Yanks are A-Rods best chance at winning a WS, that is a fact backed up by numbers you can't make go away.

[K-State Spur]

Giambi is a BUM we all know this and accept this but Damon while not in his prime is still a good hitter and has turned into a decent left fielder as well, yielding to Melky in Center.

As far as 3b goes, well Brosius by the numbers was pretty bad so lets not go nuts on him but it is possible they will go into next year with just Wilson Betemit at 3rd. While i am not in love with that idea it is not the end of the world either. He is a decent hitter and i am not convinced they are out of the A-Rod sweepstakes anyway because you are right the FA market does suck this year.

Damon was actually below average this year at the plate (94 OPS+). And it was the third straight year his OBP (his main strength as a hitter) dropped. He's also an adequate LF with a well below adequate arm. Matsui - when healthy - plays a better LF. But then you have to DH Damon, where he goes from a slightly below average bat in the OF to one of the worst hitting DHs in baseball.

Melky plays an excellent CF, but he was also one of the worst offensive CFs in the league this past year. He's still got time to improve, but his plate discipline is rotten - and that's something that players often either have or they don't.

Brosius was in NY for 4 years, and was actually pretty good in the 1st and 4th year. Pretty terrible in years 2 & 3. However, in each of the first 3 years, his postseason stats were amongst the best on the team. Year 4 they were awful, but he did have the big HR against the Dbacks.

[Melmart1]

I never said they would make the World Series i said by the numbers they are in great shape to make the playoffs, 13 for their last 13 does not lie pal. Other than the Red Sox the Yanks are A-Rods best chance at winning a WS, that is a fact backed up by numbers you can't make go away.
And A-Rod wants a team that can do more than just go to the playoffs. Even other than the Sox (which is a disctinct possiblity), there are still better possibilities than the Yanks, particularly in the NL. You seem to only be thinking of the AL, but think of a powerhouse like A-Rod in the NL. That's why I think he ends up with the Cubs or another big-city NL team.

[K-State Spur]

And A-Rod wants a team that can do more than just go to the playoffs. Even other than the Sox (which is a disctinct possiblity), there are still better possibilities than the Yanks, particularly in the NL. You seem to only be thinking of the AL, but think of a powerhouse like A-Rod in the NL. That's why I think he ends up with the Cubs or another big-city NL team.

I still disagree with this premise. Anybody who goes to the playoffs can win the series. Before 2007, you'd have to go back all the way to 1999 to find a year in which the favorites heading into the playoffs, the best all around team, won the world series. We've had mild to drastic surprises every year in between.

[dbreiden83080]

And A-Rod wants a team that can do more than just go to the playoffs. Even other than the Sox (which is a disctinct possiblity), there are still better possibilities than the Yanks, particularly in the NL. You seem to only be thinking of the AL, but think of a powerhouse like A-Rod in the NL. That's why I think he ends up with the Cubs or another big-city NL team.

Man, A-ROD wants a team that is going to give him 300 mil or more i mean who are you trying to kid here, seriously. You think A-Rod is all about winning please, Jeter is about winning, Duncan is about winning, A-Rod is about stats and money. Yanks pulled out because they were giving up 31 mil by him opting out. His Agent wants to break the bank so much that great organizations like the Dodgers and Giants are on record as saying they don't know if they can get seriously involved, in other words afford him.

Who has been the dominant team in the NL that is going to give him that shot? None that has been as consistant as the Yanks and since the NL as a whole is so inferior to the AL, he may make it to the WS but he is not likely to win it.

[Melmart1]

I still disagree with this premise. Anybody who goes to the playoffs can win the series. Before 2007, you'd have to go back all the way to 1999 to find a year in which the favorites heading into the playoffs, the best all around team, won the world series. We've had mild to drastic surprises every year in between.
Anyone who can get to the playoffs can win the series ... i agree with you on that. You never know what can happen. HOWEVER ... anyone who looked at the Yankees' pitching staff and thought they could get beyond the first round was kidding themselves. Next year isn't primed to be any different. It's all about pitching and the Yanks just don't have it. And all the way back to 1999, tell me a year the Yanks won when they were the underdog with a shitty pitching staff.

As a lifelong Rangers fan, I know a thing or two about pitching. The Rangers got to the playoffs three times in the 90s based soley off their bats. They won a total of one game, no series. The value of pitching in the playoffs has not changed since then.

[dbreiden83080]

HOWEVER ... anyone who looked at the Yankees' pitching staff and thought they could get beyond the first round was kidding themselves.

OH MY GOD, they were favored to win the series and their top 2 pitchers were Wang a 19 game winner each of the last 2 years and Pettite who has been a big game pitcher forever. Going in most thought they were the better team.

[Melmart1]

OH MY GOD, they were favored to win the series and their top 2 pitchers were Wang a 19 game winner each of the last 2 years and Pettite who has been a big game pitcher forever. Going in most thought they were the better team.
Favored by WHO? ESPN? :lmao

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Any baseball fan that IS NOT a Yankees homer could have seen that they did not have post-season pitching.

[dbreiden83080]

Favored by WHO? ESPN? :lmao

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Any baseball fan that IS NOT a Yankees homer could have seen that they did not have post-season pitching.

And the Indians DID have postseason pitching. :drunk You don't watch much baseball do you buddy?? Are you aware of Pettitte and his 4 WS rings and his big starts in the WS and playoffs, ringing any bells for ya.

[Melmart1]

And the Indians DID have postseason pitching. :drunk You don't watch much baseball do you buddy?? Are you aware of Pettitte and his 4 WS rings and his big starts in the WS and playoffs, ringing any bells for ya.
I would take Sabathia over anyone in the Yanks' rotation. Besides Rivera, thier bullpen was better, as well.

I watch plenty of baseball, BUDDY. I know all about Pettitte and his WS rings ... last decade! What does ANY of that have to do with NOW?!?

Pettitte has never been the same since he came back from injury with the Astros. Clemens... :lmao Wang? Good luck getting him to finally live up to his potential. Moose? You might as well bank on Carl Pavano.

[Reggie Miller]

I would take Sabathia over anyone in the Yanks' rotation. Besides Rivera, thier bullpen was better, as well.

I watch plenty of baseball, BUDDY. I know all about Pettitte and his WS rings ... last decade! What does ANY of that have to do with NOW?!?

Pettitte has never been the same since he came back from injury with the Astros. Clemens... :lmao Wang? Good luck getting him to finally live up to his potential. Moose? You might as well bank on Carl Pavano.

If the Yankees played in the AL Central, they would have had the third or fourth best staff in that division in 2007. In 2006, they might have been the fifth best. Mussina, Pettite, Clemens, and Rivera are all in their decline phases, and they will all be one year older. The Yankees may have the offense to make the playoffs, but they do not have an elite staff by any stretch of the imagination.

[FromWayDowntown]

If the Yankees played in the AL Central, they would have had the third or fourth best staff in that division in 2007. In 2006, they might have been the fifth best. Mussina, Pettite, Clemens, and Rivera are all in their decline phases, and they will all be one year older. The Yankees may have the offense to make the playoffs, but they do not have an elite staff by any stretch of the imagination.
It's all offense for the Yankees. But if you stop to think about it, they struggled for a significant portion of this past regular season and were kept afloat, basically, by ARod's regular season magnificence -- at least until some of the other bats awoke a bit. On June 4, they were 7 games under .500 and tied with the Devil Rays for last place in the AL East. They were under .500 as late as July 13 and were saved by the fact that most of the AL East is absolute crap. It makes me wonder where they might have been if ARod hadn't been extremely good in April and June (ARod had an OPS of 1.297 in April and 1.269 in June, hitting 23 home runs and driving in 68 runs in those two months -- the Yankees as a team hit a total of 54 home runs during those months, so ARod had almost half of the team total).

I'm not sure that the Yankee mystique is going to carry them much longer unless they get appreciably younger and better in their rotation and find some arms that can reliably get the game to Rivera late.

[dbreiden83080]

I would take Sabathia over anyone in the Yanks' rotation. Besides Rivera, thier bullpen was better, as well.

Sabathia had a good year but was not good against the Yanks or the Sox in the playoffs. I take Pettitte over him in one start any day of the week. Yanks lost game 2 not because of Pettitte he was brilliant in that game.



I watch plenty of baseball, BUDDY. I know all about Pettitte and his WS rings ... last decade! What does ANY of that have to do with NOW?!?

He is still a top caliber pitcher, and threw a great game 2 so it has plenty to do with now.



Wang? Good luck getting him to finally live up to his potential. Moose? You might as well bank on Carl Pavano.

Wang has won 38 games the last 2 years, so what 2 bad starts in the playoffs make him a bum? Mussina is on his last legs but the Yanks heading into next year with all their young arms are not likely to need him for much more than a 5th starter.

[K-State Spur]

.I take Pettitte over him in one start any day of the week..

Which is why nobody is offering you their GM position. Pettite had a better start than Sabathia had in these playoffs, but you ignore that - despite his rings - Pettite has had some pretty shaky postseasons in the past as well. You are showing a severe case of selective memory.

[FromWayDowntown]

Which is why nobody is offering you their GM position. Pettite had a better start than Sabathia had in these playoffs, but you ignore that - despite his rings - Pettite has had some pretty shaky postseasons in the past as well. You are showing a severe case of selective memory.
I can't imagine that there are too many knowledgable baseball fans who would take Pettitte over Sabathia (for a career, for a season, or even for one start) at this point. Sabathia might have been a bit shaky this postseason, but he was close-to-dominant during the regular season, which is more than can be said for Pettitte any more.

[dbreiden83080]

Which is why nobody is offering you their GM position. Pettite had a better start than Sabathia had in these playoffs, but you ignore that - despite his rings - Pettite has had some pretty shaky postseasons in the past as well. You are showing a severe case of selective memory.

Not at all i said one start not an entire season. For the year i take Sabathia, for one start i take Pettitte, sure he has had some bad starts in the playoffs, more good than bad but Sabathia has virtually no postseason experience at all and he was BAD in these playoffs. He is 2 -2 with a 7.17 ERA in the playoffs, Andy is 14-9 with a 3.96 and was great in his one start this year, so yeah i take him in ONE start over CC and with those numbers how is that a ridiculous statement???

This is going nowhere, i am surrounded by nothing but Yankee haters.

[Melmart1]

Sabathia had a good year but was not good against the Yanks or the Sox in the playoffs. I take Pettitte over him in one start any day of the week. Yanks lost game 2 not because of Pettitte he was brilliant in that game.
While I agree he was great in that game, it doesn't matter if the rest of your team throws like crap.




He is still a top caliber pitcher, and threw a great game 2 so it has plenty to do with now.
Again, hanging your hat on last decade. Pettitte is a decent pitcher still, but top caliber? Take off your pinstripe-colored glasses for just one sec, will ya?




Wang has won 38 games the last 2 years, so what 2 bad starts in the playoffs make him a bum? Mussina is on his last legs but the Yanks heading into next year with all their young arms are not likely to need him for much more than a 5th starter.
Well, according to you one good start in the playoffs for Pettitte negates his shaky regular season. You can't have it both ways, but you sure seem intent on trying.

[dbreiden83080]

You can't have it both ways, but you sure seem intent on trying.

You don't even know what you are arguing anymore. First Yanks will have a hard time making the playoffs, now you are arguing what they did in the playoffs, A-Rod wants a real winner (Bullshit he wants money) but you can't name me one better than the Yanks other than the Sox, you are all over the map.

[Melmart1]

You don't even know what you are arguing anymore. First Yanks will have a hard time making the playoffs, now you are arguing what they did in the playoffs, A-Rod wants a real winner (Bullshit he wants money) but you can't name me one better than the Yanks other than the Sox, you are all over the map.
No, I just don't buy into your homer/arrogant outlook on the Yanks, and you hate it. Then you pulled the "Yankee Hater" card, which is typical of a Yankee fan who is being out-argued.

[dbreiden83080]

typical of a Yankee fan who is being out-argued.

You are starting to sound like a closet Red Sox Fan.

[K-State Spur]

so yeah i take him in ONE start over CC and with those numbers how is that a ridiculous statement???


because - at this point in their careers - sabathia's a superior pitcher in every way . you're letting your love of the yankees and an extremely small sample size with CC skew your judgement.

ask 30 GMs this question and 30 would take Sabathia (INCLUDING cashman) for a start, season, career, whatever.

[dbreiden83080]

because - at this point in their careers - sabathia's a superior pitcher in every way . you're letting your love of the yankees and an extremely small sample size with CC skew your judgement.

ask 30 GMs this question and 30 would take Sabathia (INCLUDING cashman) for a start, season, career, whatever.

Oh okay so let me ask you this?

Jeter or A-Rod game 7 of the world series who do you want?

The answer is Jeter by a mile for one game but A-Rod for a season. By the numbers you must be joking telling me saying one start over CC with Andy is dead wrong by the numbers and experience it couldn't be more right.

If i said i take Andy for a season that would be different, see you won't give me any room to breath here, everything i say i guess is just about me being a Yankee Homer right.

[Melmart1]

You are starting to sound like a closet Red Sox Fan.
Yep, saw that one coming as soon as you pulled the Yankee Haters card.

And there is nothing closet about my baseball outlook. I am a Rangers fan, and yeah, I root for the Sox and I dislike the Yankees. Despite my disdain for the pinstripes, I can honestly say that I have made much more sense and given much more sensible arguments in regards to the Yankees than you have.

[Melmart1]

see you won't give me any room to breath here, everything i say i guess is just about me being a Yankee Homer right.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's about you being a homer, period. Making statements like Pettitte being a "top caliber" pitcher is ridiculous, I don't care who you root for. The fact that you would rank him with pitchers like say a Jake Peavy is crazy.

The fact that you are a Yankees homer doesn't help, but you have to lie in the bed you made with all the crazy talk.

[dbreiden83080]

I can honestly say that I have made much more sense and given much more sensible arguments in regards to the Yankees than you have.

Been hitting the :drunk early today i see. Still waiting for that team other than the Red Sox that will give A-Rod his best chance to win. Lets see who else has gone 13 for their last 13 since 1995 making the playoffs, uh gee well uh nobody.

[dbreiden83080]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's about you being a homer, period. Making statements like Pettitte being a "top caliber" pitcher is ridiculous, I don't care who you root for. The fact that you would rank him with pitchers like say a Jake Peavy is crazy.

The fact that you are a Yankees homer doesn't help, but you have to lie in the bed you made with all the crazy talk.

Stll don't know what you are arguing do you?? I see him as a top caliber pitcher but you have to put that in the proper context. For a season is he as good as CC or Peavy, No and i never said that. I like him for one start in the playoffs though over CC for sure at this point.

[Melmart1]

Been hitting the :drunk early today i see. Still waiting for that team other than the Red Sox that will give A-Rod his best chance to win. Lets see who else has gone 13 for their last 13 since 1995 making the playoffs, uh gee well uh nobody.
You were bitching a few posts ago about not having any breathing room, and yet you go and make sarcastic remarks like this. You deserve all the shit you are getting in this thread.

And I already told you, I believe an NL team like perhaps the Cubs or Dodgers gives A-Rod the best chance to win, or at leat get to the WS. The fact that you choose to ignore it is not my fault. The fact that you choose to ignore how broken-down your team is and that you may come away with crap in FA is also not my fault. The Yanks will not make the playoffs next year.

[dbreiden83080]

And I already told you, I believe an NL team like perhaps the Cubs or Dodgers gives A-Rod the best chance to win, or at leat get to the WS. The fact that you choose to ignore it is not my fault.

Why would i give you any credit for a dumb ass statement like that that is both irrelevant and wrong. Have those teams made the playoffs like the Yanks have every year, have they? Dodgers have won something like 1 playoff series since Lasorda Retired and you are giving me them as a better spot to win for A-Rod than the Yanks. :lmao

[Melmart1]

Stll don't know what you are arguing do you?? I see him as a top caliber pitcher but you have to put that in the proper context. For a season is he as good as CC or Peavy, No and i never said that. I like him for one start in the playoffs though over CC for sure at this point.
All you said was that he was a 'top caliber' pitcher. You did not qualify that statement with anything else. You did not say 'in context' or 'in the playoffs.' You said top caliber. Period. So I don't think YOU know what you are arguing.

[dbreiden83080]

All you said was that he was a 'top caliber' pitcher. You did not qualify that statement with anything else. You did not say 'in context' or 'in the playoffs.' You said top caliber. Period. So I don't think YOU know what you are arguing.

I qualified that several times, just go back a page you tried throw the statement in my face after i already made myself very clear on that point many times over.

[Melmart1]

I qualified that many times over, just go back a page you tried throw the statement in my face after i already made myself very clear on that point many times over.
No, you were qualifying your statement about taking him over Sabathia. Not about him being top caliber.

[dbreiden83080]

No, you were qualifying your statement about taking him over Sabathia. Not about him being top caliber.

No i sad he is top caliber overall just not on the same level as those other guys for the whole year but for one start over CC i take him. I qualified it you just don't like it.

[Melmart1]

Why would i give you any credit for a dumb ass statement like that that is both irrelevant and wrong. Have those teams made the playoffs like the Yanks have every year, have they? Dodgers have won something like 1 playoff series since Lasorda Retired and you are giving me them as a better spot to win for A-Rod than the Yanks. :lmao
Hey, I answered your question. You didn't say I had to answer it in a way that you see fit.

Your team is full of question marks. 13 years in a row making the playoffs don't mean shit RIGHT NOW. The manager that guided you to those appearances is a Dodger now. The guy who kept your team from being 15-20 games under .500 by the All-Star break is gone as well. Rivera might be gone. Moose might have half a good season again, if you are lucky. The free agent crop is dangerously thin in the places that the Yankees need it most. Stop living in the past.

[Melmart1]

No i sad he is top caliber overall just not on the same level as those other guys for the whole year but for one start over CC i take him. I qualified it you just don't like it.
What the hell does THAT mean? That's like saying "oh, I am one of the best in the game, just not on the same level as the really good ones."

[dbreiden83080]

Hey, I answered your question. You didn't say I had to answer it in a way that you see fit.

When you are wrong and you are, i am not giving you any props for it, those teams have done nothing in the last 10 years and i see no reason why that is going to change.



Your team is full of question marks. 13 years in a row making the playoffs don't mean shit RIGHT NOW.

As opposed to 13 years of either not making the playoffs or making it on and off like some of crappy teams you have attempted to bring to the table. Yanks have a talented roster, experience MAKING THE PLAYOFFS and a huge payroll but i am just being a Yankee homer saying they are making the playoffs next year and are A-rods best bet for a WS title other than the Red Sox, yeah sure whatever.

[Reggie Miller]

Bottom Line: Yankees do not have one of the better staffs in the AL, much less the best. No rational person could think that they even had the best staff in their own division in 2007, for the regular season, post season, one start, or whatever. Nothing will be a given next season under these circumstances.

[K-State Spur]

The answer is Jeter by a mile for one game but A-Rod for a season.

Why? Jeter's 'clutchness' is vastly overrated. A-Rod was better than Jeter in the postseason this year.

And people tend to forget that while the MFYs were choking against BOS in 2004, Jeter was horrible in that series and it was A-Rod who put together a great postseason and tried to keep the MFYs afloat.

The perception that A-Rod is not a good postseason player is a myth that was built solely 2005 & 2006 (small sample size).

In his career, he's got an .844 OPS in the postseason. By comparison, the every so clutch and timely Mr. Jeter has a .846 OPS in the postseason.

[ATRAIN]

That's right and they have not missed the playoffs since 1994 the strike season and they were in 1st place when that happened, this is not a rebuilding season for the Yanks there is no such thing for them. They have a talented roster and truck load of resources so other than Boston the Yanks are A-Rods best best at winning a WS every year, PERIOD.


Why would a-rod want to re-sign to a team where the fans ALWAYS boo the shit out of them when they are in a slump. I hope he says fuck the yankees and fuck their fans.

[FromWayDowntown]

Why would i give you any credit for a dumb ass statement like that that is both irrelevant and wrong. Have those teams made the playoffs like the Yanks have every year, have they? Dodgers have won something like 1 playoff series since Lasorda Retired and you are giving me them as a better spot to win for A-Rod than the Yanks. :lmao
What a ridiculous retort. The fact that the Yankees have made the playoffs every year for the last decade plus doesn't change the fact that the club was under .500 in July of this year and was saved, basically, by the fact that it plays in a crappy division and could load up with wins over Baltimore, Toronto, and Tampa Bay. That they've made the playoffs for so many consecutive years is NOT a reason to believe that the house isn't starting to crumble -- and that when the crumbling becomes irreversible, the Yanks will have at least a couple of fairly lean years.

The larger point, however, is that the path of least resistance for ARod in seeking to reach the World Series is in the National League. Given the number of super-competitive clubs residing in the AL (Angels, Indians, Tigers, Red Sox to name a few) and the relatively small number of such clubs in the NL, there's great reason to think that adding ARod to one NL club could make that team a regular season juggernaut and give it plenty of reason to believe that it can reach the playoffs annually. I'm not sure why that's a controversial assertion -- that they haven't done it for the last 12 years doesn't mean a damned thing; the Red Sox didn't make the playoffs in 2006, but that doesn't mean that they haven't been the most successful club in baseball over the last 5 years.

[dbreiden83080]

And people tend to forget that while the MFYs were choking against BOS in 2004, Jeter was horrible in that series and it was A-Rod who put together a great postseason and tried to keep the MFYs afloat.

Oh come one now, Jeter has a WS MVP in his trophy case and was very good recently against the Angels and the Tigers while A-Rod hit something like .087 in those series. Lets not slam on Jeter here, overall he has had a great post-season career.

[Melmart1]

When you are wrong and you are, i am not giving you any props for it
I'm sorry, direct me to the quote where I asked for props ... All I did was answer your question, which you accused me of not doing.


those teams have done nothing in the last 10 years and i see no reason why that is going to change.
And therein lies your problem. Living in the past.




As opposed to 13 years of either not making the playoffs or making it on and off like some of crappy teams you have attempted to bring to the table. Yanks have a talented roster, experience MAKING THE PLAYOFFS and a huge payroll but i am just being a Yankee homer saying they are making the playoffs next year and are A-rods best bet for a WS title other than the Red Sox, yeah sure whatever.
Anyone who thinks the Yanks can be WS contenders next year is seriously kidding themselves. Too many question marks, players that are broken down or on the verge of it and a shaky (at best) overall rotation. That's just not going to cut it, A-Rod or not.

[K-State Spur]

Oh come one now, Jeter has a WS MVP in his trophy case and was very good recently against the Angels and the Tigers while A-Rod hit something like .087 in those series. Lets not slam on Jeter here, overall he has had a great post-season career.

I'm not denying that Jeter's had some great postseason series (so has A-Rod). Jeter's also had some turds (2007, 2004, 2001, 1998), just like A-Rod.

The difference is that the media tends to focus on Jeter's triumphs and A-Rod's failures.

As I edited in my post above, their career postseason numbers are virtually identical (once you take into account that A-Rod has less games).

[Melmart1]

What a ridiculous retort. The fact that the Yankees have made the playoffs every year for the last decade plus doesn't change the fact that the club was under .500 in July of this year and was saved, basically, by the fact that it plays in a crappy division and could load up with wins over Baltimore, Toronto, and Tampa Bay. That they've made the playoffs for so many consecutive years is NOT a reason to believe that the house isn't starting to crumble -- and that when the crumbling becomes irreversible, the Yanks will have at least a couple of fairly lean years.

The larger point, however, is that the path of least resistance for ARod in seeking to reach the World Series is in the National League. Given the number of super-competitive clubs residing in the AL (Angels, Indians, Tigers, Red Sox to name a few) and the relatively small number of such clubs in the NL, there's great reason to think that adding ARod to one NL club could make that team a regular season juggernaut and give it plenty of reason to believe that it can reach the playoffs annually. I'm not sure why that's a controversial assertion -- that they haven't done it for the last 12 years doesn't mean a damned thing; the Red Sox didn't make the playoffs in 2006, but that doesn't mean that they haven't been the most successful club in baseball over the last 5 years.
Thank-you! That is basically what I was trying to say when I mentioned the Cubs and Dodgers, but you said it much better than I did (as usual).

I don't understand why dbreiden can't see my point. I think it makes perfect sense that he could go further with either of those teams than next year's Yankees. But then again, I am looking into the future of each of those teams and which League they play in, rather than living in the past.

[dbreiden83080]

I'm not denying that Jeter's had some great postseason series (so has A-Rod). Jeter's also had some turds (2007, 2004, 2001, 1998), just like A-Rod.

The difference is that the media tends to focus on Jeter's triumphs and A-Rod's failures.

As I edited in my post above, their career postseason numbers are virtually identical (once you take into account that A-Rod has less games).

Jeter has a .309 BA and more hits than anyone in the playoffs since they changed the playoff format. He has also made great clutch plays even when he was not hitting like the famous Flip to nail Giambi at home against the A's in 2001. A-Rod is 7 for his last 44 in the playoffs with just 1 RBI that is beyond BAD especially for your cleanup hitter.

[K-State Spur]

Quit digging the hole.

.846 OPS vs. 844 OPS. They're virtually the same postseason player. Jeter may have more hits, but he also has signficantly more ABs.

Nobody is denying that A-Rod was awful in 2005-2006. But Jeter's had awful series before.

And I'm well aware that Jeter had the flip. Even if Giambi was safe, it's still a tremendous athletic display by Jeter. However, he's also supplied the MFYs with subpar range at SS in every postseason series since 1996.

I'm not tearing Jeter down, just saying he hasn't been quite the postseason player that many Yankee fans think he is. And you couple that with the fact that A-Rod hasn't been as bad in the postseason as many Yankee fans think he has.

The difference here is that you are arguing with your heart, and I'm supplying stats and facts.

[mardigan]

Sources: Yankees more than $100M short of entertaining A-Rod
By Buster Olney
ESPN The Magazine
(Archive)
Updated: November 2, 2007, 1:40 PM ET

Before Alex Rodriguez opted out of his contract with the Yankees earlier this week, the team was told that it would not be able to meet with the third baseman unless it presented an offer of at least $350 million, sources say.

The Yankees had hoped to meet with Rodriguez this week, and would have presented him with an extension offer close to five years and $150 million, to begin at the conclusion of his 2008-2010 contract, through which he would have earned $81 million. Through the Yankees' proposal, then, Rodriguez would have made about $230 million over eight years, and during the last five years of the contract, sources say, he would have earned the highest annual salary in Major League Baseball history.

But team executives were told, sources say, that in order to arrange a meeting with Rodriguez, they would have to be prepared to make an extension offer that would take the third baseman's deal up to a total value of $350 million. That means that the offer the Yankees intended to propose would have been more than $100 million short.

Rodriguez's agent, Scott Boras, sent the documentation of Rodriguez's intention to opt out of the contract to Yankees general manager Brian Cashman during Game 4 of the World Series, Cashman has said, and the GM did not speak with Boras until after news of the decision was published on SI.com.

The timing of how this played out, and the fact that Rodriguez did not meet with the Yankees to hear their offer before making his decision, has led some baseball officials to surmise that a deal with another team may already be in the works. In an interview with ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick on Thursday, Boras said, "We have had no economic discussions regarding Alex Rodriguez with any major-league team."

The Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Giants and Marlins are among the teams which have not publicly ruled out pursuing Rodriguez. Sources say it is highly unlikely that the Dodgers will seriously entertain the possibility.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3091277
Buster Olney is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

[dbreiden83080]

So it looks like Boras wants 35 mil a year for him in the 10 year range. Any team that gives him that is out of their minds. He will be 33 next year so you will be paying him 35 mil a year for about 5 years of out of prime baseball and that is just crazy to even consider. A-Rod is all about the money always has been. He and his agent eliminate so many good teams that could have interest because of this contract demands. Good teams that either won't be able to afford him or just unwilling to meet his price. When the Yankees who spend more money than anyone, tell you it is too much money, it is time too lower your asking price.

[MoSpur]

The funny thing is that there is a team dumb enough to give him that money. The Yankees are my team and A-Rod did a lot for them this past season. No one can deny that. W/out him, they don't make the post season this past season. However, him and his agent asking the Yankees for over 300 million is a little crazy. The Yankees need more pitching than hitting.

Congrats to Joe Torre! I am going to miss him and its going to be weird getting use to see someone else managing the Yanks.

[dbreiden83080]

The funny thing is that there is a team dumb enough to give him that money. The Yankees are my team and A-Rod did a lot for them this past season. No one can deny that. W/out him, they don't make the post season this past season. However, him and his agent asking the Yankees for over 300 million is a little crazy. The Yankees need more pitching than hitting.

Congrats to Joe Torre! I am going to miss him and its going to be weird getting use to see someone else managing the Yanks.

The 35 mil a year is one thing but 10 years is flat out insane to even consider giving him. Yanks are better off letting him go and spreading that 35 mil around more not just this year but for the future as well, he is not worth that price tag. He wants to be the center of everything, he is all about himself.

[peewee's lovechild]

So much for all that.

ARod is in direct talks with the Steinbrenners . . . without that leech Boras.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3111624&name=olney_buster&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3111624%26name%3dolne y_buster

ARod's back baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!