PDA

View Full Version : Hip-hop culture hurting NFL



Charles
10-29-2007, 10:32 PM
NFL buffoons leaving terrible legacy
Jason Whitlock
FOXSports.com, Updated 10 days ago

You get one NFL Truth today. Watching Chad Johnson and Larry Johnson undermine their respective head coaches, Marvin Lewis and Herm Edwards, on Sunday gave me a singular focus, forced me to contemplate an uncomfortable truth.

African-American football players caught up in the rebellion and buffoonery of hip hop culture have given NFL owners and coaches a justifiable reason to whiten their rosters. That will be the legacy left by Chad, Larry and Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones, Terrell Owens, Michael Vick and all the other football bojanglers.
In terms of opportunity for American-born black athletes, they're going to leave the game in far worse shape than they found it.

It's already starting to happen. A little-publicized fact is that the Colts and the Patriots — the league's model franchises — are two of the whitest teams in the NFL. If you count rookie receiver Anthony Gonzalez, the Colts opened the season with an NFL-high 24 white players on their 53-man roster. Toss in linebacker Naivote Taulawakeiaho "Freddie" Keiaho and 47 percent of Tony Dungy's defending Super Bowl-champion roster is non-African-American. Bill Belichick's Patriots are nearly as white, boasting a 23-man non-African-American roster, counting linebacker Tiaina "Junior" Seau and backup quarterback Matt Gutierrez.

For some reason, these facts are being ignored by the mainstream media. Could you imagine what would be written and discussed by the media if the Yankees and the Red Sox were chasing World Series titles with 11 African-Americans on their 25-man rosters (45 percent)?

We would be inundated with information and analysis on the social significance. Well, trust me, what is happening with the roster of the Patriots and the Colts and with Roger Goodell's disciplinary crackdown are all socially significant.

Hip hop athletes are being rejected because they're not good for business and, most important, because they don't contribute to a consistent winning environment. Herm Edwards said it best: You play to win the game.

I'm sure when we look up 10 years from now and 50 percent — rather than 70 percent — of NFL rosters are African-American, some Al Sharpton wannabe is going to blame the decline on a white-racist plot.

That bogus charge will ignore our role in our football demise. We are in the process of mishandling the opportunity and freedom earned for us by Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Doug Williams, Mike Singletary, Gale Sayers, Willie Lanier and countless others. And those of us in the media who have rationalized, minimized and racialized every misstep by Vick, Pacman and T.O. have played an equal role in blowing it.

By failing to confront and annihilate the abhorrent cultural norms we have allowed to grab our youth, we have in the grand American scheme sentenced many of them to hell on earth (incarceration), and in the sports/entertainment world we've left them to define us as unreliable, selfish and buffoonish.

I take you to Arrowhead Stadium this past Sunday when two competent and respected black head coaches led the Chiefs and the Bengals in battle, and their efforts were periodically sabotaged by Chad and Larry Johnson, the two players Lewis and Edwards have defended the most.

Football fans are aware of Lewis' love affair with Chad Johnson, the Flavor Flav of the gridiron. Johnson's insistence on conducting a minstrel show during games has long been reluctantly tolerated by Lewis. Johnson, I guess, is just too talented, productive and well-compensated for Lewis to discipline. So Lewis has chosen to enable, going as far as making excuses when Johnson's selfish behavior extended to an alleged locker-room shoving match with coaches (including a swing at Lewis) at halftime of the Bengals' Jan. 8, 2006 playoff loss to the Steelers.

Coming off an 11-5 regular season and having been crowned the toast of Cincinnati, Lewis responded to that Johnson meltdown by vowing to cut the player who leaked the fight information to the media.

Since then, the Bengals have been one of the league's biggest disappointments, finishing 8-8 last season and starting 1-4 this season. Injuries have played a significant role in Cincy's troubles, but so has a lack of on- and off-field discipline and focus. Lewis' coddling of Chad Johnson has destroyed the chemistry that made the Bengals a playoff team in 2005.

On Sunday, with the Bengals trying to rally out of a two-score deficit, Johnson failed to finish a pass route, which contributed to Carson Palmer throwing an interception.

Not to be outdone, Larry Johnson continued his season-long pattern of immature behavior, spiking the football in frustration with 4 minutes to play and the Chiefs attempting to run out the clock. The Bengals were out of timeouts and the spike stopped the clock, giving Cincy one last chance to make a comeback.

Johnson, despite receiving a new $45-million contract, has brooded, pouted and complained all season. He spent the off-season promising to be a leader and has spent the first six weeks of the season spreading locker-room cancer. Edwards-coached teams have traditionally been the least-penalized squads in the NFL. This year's Chiefs are one of the most-penalized squads. Nickel back Benny Sapp drew an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on Sunday, had to be dragged off the field by Donnie Edwards, and was spotted on the sideline arguing with players and coaches.

Race is not the determining factor when it comes to having a good or bad attitude. Culture is.

Hip hop is the dominant culture for black youth. In general, music, especially hip hop music, is rebellious for no good reason other than to make money. Rappers and rockers are not trying to fix problems. They create problems for attention.

That philosophy, attitude and behavior go against everything football coaches stand for. They're in a constant battle to squash rebellion, dissent and second opinions from their players.

You know why Muhammad Ali is/was an icon? Because he rebelled against something meaningful and because he excelled in an individual sport. His rebellion didn't interfere with winning. Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, etc. rebelled with dignity and purpose.

What we're witnessing today are purposeless, selfish acts of buffoonery. Sensible people have grown tired of it. Football people are recognizing it doesn't contribute to a winning environment.

Whether calculated or not, the Patriots and the Colts have created settings in which Brady and Manning can lead and feel comfortable. I remember back in the 1980s when some black sports fans accused the Celtics of being racist for having a predominantly-white roster when Larry Bird was the star. No one remembered that Red Auerbach occasionally fielded an all-black starting lineup during Bill Russell's heyday.

My point is that it makes sense to cater to your stars. And it makes even more sense to fill your roster with players who don't mind being led, even if you sacrifice a little 40-yard dash speed.

If things don't change quickly, we're going to learn this lesson the hard way.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7343980?MSNHPHMA (http://)

Kandy is Dandy
10-29-2007, 10:34 PM
Im not reading all of that.

Fillmoe
10-29-2007, 10:35 PM
you should kill yourself for posting this bullshit......

J.T.
10-29-2007, 10:37 PM
Hip hop culture is hurting the world, not just the NFL. Good thing its on the way out though.

leemajors
10-29-2007, 11:34 PM
chad johnson isn't undermining shit. i'm with kornheiser and wilbon on this - dude practices his ass off, is a good teammate, has never been in any sort of trouble off the field, but because he has some fun during a game the media has decided to gang up on him as a cancer for no reason whatsoever. cincy's problems have nothing to do with chad johnson.

Gerryatrics
10-30-2007, 12:19 AM
Since apparently the writer is African-American, I'll go ahead and say I don't entirely disagree with the article.

BeerIsGood!
10-30-2007, 07:54 AM
chad johnson isn't undermining shit. i'm with kornheiser and wilbon on this - dude practices his ass off, is a good teammate, has never been in any sort of trouble off the field, but because he has some fun during a game the media has decided to gang up on him as a cancer for no reason whatsoever. cincy's problems have nothing to do with chad johnson.


I disagree. Taking a swing at coaches isn't a good thing, and we don't know what goes on behind the doors of the Bengal's facility. I agree that Johnson isn't the Bengals' only problem or their biggest, but I'd argue that he's a distraction. More than anything I'd put the blame at the feet of Marvin for not cracking down and getting some discipline with these guys.

BeerIsGood!
10-30-2007, 07:58 AM
I hate hip-hop culture. It has become nothing but a parody of it's former self, and has gone so far from the cultural significance of people like Public Enemy. Now it's money, ass, and boarish behavior, and if I was black I'd be pissed as hell that people perceive me as having a connection with that trash at first sight because of my youth and skin color. Luckily I don't have to worry about that, I have people worrying that I am going to shank them and scream "Fuck You Ese!!" because of my youth and skin color.

StylisticS
10-30-2007, 08:13 AM
I have so much to say that I will say about it later this evening. Let's just say right now that the article is a bunch of bullshit and you will have people that knows NOTHING about the culture in general except what they see on television or hear on the fuckin radio continue to talk shit about it. Whitlock is now going out of his way to fuckin shit on the culture in every chance he gets. He needs to try something fuckin else to piss of the Black American community. And yes, I am black and NO, I'm not fuckin pissed off at the culture.

StylisticS
10-30-2007, 08:16 AM
Hip hop culture is hurting the world, not just the NFL. Good thing its on the way out though.
You know what. As a person that listens to hip hop. I hope it does go out in the mainstream. Therefore we can get quality music back like we did in the 80s and 90s and stop suckin up to these suburban ass kids.

stretch
10-30-2007, 08:22 AM
"Race is not the determining factor when it comes to having a good or bad attitude. Culture is."

Bullshit. Their own fucking personal desicions are what gives them a good or bad attitude. People can choose whether or not they want to act a fool or not. Listening to hip-hop has nothing to do with what they choose to do. Does a hip hop record load a gun and cock it for you? Does a hip hop record force your fist into someones face? Does a hip hop record stick the knife in someones face? I really don't see why hip hop gets so much blame for societies problems. IMO, people just want a scapegoat, so now its become hip hop, when in reality, there are far more poor influences in society than hip hop. What about movies these days? I think movies has a much more graphic depiction of piss-poor attitudes, violence, killing, etc... than music does. I mean come on... we have movies showing people melting innocent peoples faces with blow-torches... At the same time, I do understand why movies show some of the things that they do, to maintain a realistic depiction of what goes on in life. At the same time, there is more than one side to hip hop. There is good hip hop, and then there is plenty of bad hip hop as well.

Now I'm not defending all hip hop. Only the good hip hop, and believe me, there is plenty of good hip hop out there. The problem is, the radio plays so much "money cash hoes" shit, or stupid fucking songs like Soulja Boy "Crank That", when a lot of people dont even understand what the fuck he means when he is saying "superman dat hoe." that shit is just ridiculous, and by no means will I ever defend that kind of crap. but there is plenty of very intelligent and intelecual hip hop out there. A lot of it is too deep for most simple minded people though, so since they don't understand it, and they hear a cuss word, or someone mentions a word about guns or drugs, they just assume its about how they want to kill people and smoke weed and shit like that, when many times, that is not the case at all.

For you hip-hop haters, throw a Lupe Fiasco or Talib Kweli CD in, and try to be open-minded and understand what these guys are really talking about. I guarantee if you do, you will have a completely different perspective on hip-hop, and understand there are multiple kinds of hip hop as well, not just the majority of the crap they play on the radio. 98% of the best, purest hip hop does not get radio play.

stretch
10-30-2007, 08:33 AM
Let's just say right now that the article is a bunch of bullshit and you will have people that knows NOTHING about the culture in general except what they see on television or hear on the fuckin radio continue to talk shit about it.

Agreed, 100%.

samikeyp
10-30-2007, 08:35 AM
Blaming hip-hop is stupid and a cop-out. The biggest reason, IMO, why athletes get in trouble like they do is that they are basically told from 4 years old how great they are. People see talent in a kid and they want to use that to their advantage so they tell them "don't worry about anything else, as long as you can play football..we'll take care of everything". They are not held responsible for their actions so they think basically they can do what they want and if they make a mess, someone else will clean it up for them. What about the kids who go to school out in the rural areas of a state who hurt someone because they are drinking and driving? A lot of those kids listen to country music...should we blame Tim McGraw? A kid in a small town who has the chance to go far because he can play a sport will be just as protected and covered up for as a kid in the hood. It's not the music they listen to, or the neighborhood they live in, its not a inner city vs. suburbs thing. Is it about color? Absolutely...but it's not black, white or brown....it's green.

Hook Dem
10-30-2007, 08:46 AM
Blaming hip-hop is stupid and a cop-out. The biggest reason, IMO, why athletes get in trouble like they do is that they are basically told from 4 years old how great they are. People see talent in a kid and they want to use that to their advantage so they tell them "don't worry about anything else, as long as you can play football..we'll take care of everything". They are not held responsible for their actions so they think basically they can do what they want and if they make a mess, someone else will clean it up for them. What about the kids who go to school out in the rural areas of a state who hurt someone because they are drinking and driving? A lot of those kids listen to country music...should we blame Tim McGraw? A kid in a small town who has the chance to go far because he can play a sport will be just as protected and covered up for as a kid in the hood. It's not the music they listen to, or the neighborhood they live in, its not a inner city vs. suburbs thing. Is it about color? Absolutely...but it's not black, white or brown....it's green.
And there you have the truth!

Reggie Miller
10-30-2007, 09:04 AM
I hate hip-hop culture. It has become nothing but a parody of it's former self, and has gone so far from the cultural significance of people like Public Enemy. Now it's money, ass, and boarish behavior, and if I was black I'd be pissed as hell that people perceive me as having a connection with that trash at first sight because of my youth and skin color. Luckily I don't have to worry about that, I have people worrying that I am going to shank them and scream "Fuck You Ese!!" because of my youth and skin color.

The ironic thing is that Public Enemy wouldn't even crack the Top 100 today. They were "controversial" in a way that actually frightened people, instead of reinforcing negative stereotypes. PE was also critical of American black culture, which probably wouldn't endear them to a black audience either.

(Not to mention that the legal implications of sampling would now make Yo, Bum Rush the Show and It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back prohibitively expensive to produce.)

I keep hoping Chuck D will make a comeback, but I'm not holding my breath.

leemajors
10-30-2007, 09:07 AM
The ironic thing is that Public Enemy wouldn't even crack the Top 100 today. They were "controversial" in a way that actually frightened people, instead of reinforcing negative stereotypes. PE was also critical of American black culture, which probably wouldn't endear them to a black audience either.

(Not to mention that the legal implications of sampling would now make Yo, Bum Rush the Show and It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back prohibitively expensive to produce.)

I keep hoping Chuck D will make a comeback, but I'm not holding my breath.
we can always wait for the next spike lee soundtrack. i've been really into apocalypse 91 lately.

Reggie Miller
10-30-2007, 09:07 AM
Blaming hip-hop is stupid and a cop-out. The biggest reason, IMO, why athletes get in trouble like they do is that they are basically told from 4 years old how great they are. People see talent in a kid and they want to use that to their advantage so they tell them "don't worry about anything else, as long as you can play football..we'll take care of everything". They are not held responsible for their actions so they think basically they can do what they want and if they make a mess, someone else will clean it up for them. What about the kids who go to school out in the rural areas of a state who hurt someone because they are drinking and driving? A lot of those kids listen to country music...should we blame Tim McGraw? A kid in a small town who has the chance to go far because he can play a sport will be just as protected and covered up for as a kid in the hood. It's not the music they listen to, or the neighborhood they live in, its not a inner city vs. suburbs thing. Is it about color? Absolutely...but it's not black, white or brown....it's green.


Yep. For example, I am convinced that Duncan and Ginobili may not have been the great players and men they are today if they had played basketball from an early age in the U.S. (I'm not saying it's the ONLY reason, but it sure didn't hurt them.)

Reggie Miller
10-30-2007, 09:10 AM
we can always wait for the next spike lee soundtrack. i've been really into apocalypse 91 lately.

That was my favorite PE CD for many years, and it was the "new" release the only time I saw them in concert. Lately, I have been finally appreciating Muse Sick "N' Hour Message, which I did not like when it was first released. It Takes a Nation of Millions... is probably my favorite.


EDIT: Anyone not familiar with Public Enemy should really give them a listen. PE is the only "protest" music worth a damn since Jimmy Cliff's "Vietnam."

samikeyp
10-30-2007, 09:26 AM
Yep. For example, I am convinced that Duncan and Ginobili may not have been the great players and men they are today if they had played basketball from an early age in the U.S. (I'm not saying it's the ONLY reason, but it sure didn't hurt them.)

Good point.

I am not saying (and I am sure you are not either) that foreign born players as a group are in any way better than US born players but US born players have more distractions from an earlier age.

leemajors
10-30-2007, 09:30 AM
That was my favorite PE CD for many years, and it was the "new" release the only time I saw them in concert. Lately, I have been finally appreciating Muse Sick "N' Hour Message, which I did not like when it was first released. It Takes a Nation of Millions... is probably my favorite.
that's my fave as well. the bomb squad just doesn't sound dated at all, which is remarkable in and of itself.

midgetonadonkey
10-30-2007, 10:09 AM
I blame the Hip-Hop culture for everything bad that has happened in any aspect of the world. Including Nine Eleven.

leemajors
10-30-2007, 11:03 AM
I blame the Hip-Hop culture for everything bad that has happened in any aspect of the world. Including Nine Eleven.
interesting. you're totally discounting the macarena effect.

Bigzax
10-30-2007, 11:42 AM
"They should have never given them niggas money! "

-Rick James

Spawn
10-30-2007, 01:43 PM
This article is pure bullshit, and the fact that it is coming from a Black man makes me all the more furious about this. It is articles such as these that feed the already existing bigotry and negative stereotypes towards Black people, especially Black men. The way Whitlock makes it sound it is as if this "culture" is an epidimic in the NFL. The players that he list as having these problems make up what, 0.5% of the Black athletes in the NFL? I swear Blacks have to be the only race that the actions of a few reflect badly on the race as a whole and it is a damn shame.

703 Spurz
10-30-2007, 02:00 PM
"Race is not the determining factor when it comes to having a good or bad attitude. Culture is."

Bullshit. Their own fucking personal desicions are what gives them a good or bad attitude. People can choose whether or not they want to act a fool or not. Listening to hip-hop has nothing to do with what they choose to do. Does a hip hop record load a gun and cock it for you? Does a hip hop record force your fist into someones face? Does a hip hop record stick the knife in someones face? I really don't see why hip hop gets so much blame for societies problems. IMO, people just want a scapegoat, so now its become hip hop, when in reality, there are far more poor influences in society than hip hop. What about movies these days? I think movies has a much more graphic depiction of piss-poor attitudes, violence, killing, etc... than music does. I mean come on... we have movies showing people melting innocent peoples faces with blow-torches... At the same time, I do understand why movies show some of the things that they do, to maintain a realistic depiction of what goes on in life. At the same time, there is more than one side to hip hop. There is good hip hop, and then there is plenty of bad hip hop as well.

Now I'm not defending all hip hop. Only the good hip hop, and believe me, there is plenty of good hip hop out there. The problem is, the radio plays so much "money cash hoes" shit, or stupid fucking songs like Soulja Boy "Crank That", when a lot of people dont even understand what the fuck he means when he is saying "superman dat hoe." that shit is just ridiculous, and by no means will I ever defend that kind of crap. but there is plenty of very intelligent and intelecual hip hop out there. A lot of it is too deep for most simple minded people though, so since they don't understand it, and they hear a cuss word, or someone mentions a word about guns or drugs, they just assume its about how they want to kill people and smoke weed and shit like that, when many times, that is not the case at all.

For you hip-hop haters, throw a Lupe Fiasco or Talib Kweli CD in, and try to be open-minded and understand what these guys are really talking about. I guarantee if you do, you will have a completely different perspective on hip-hop, and understand there are multiple kinds of hip hop as well, not just the majority of the crap they play on the radio. 98% of the best, purest hip hop does not get radio play.

I blame the people too. Sure rap, movies, other friends can influence what you do but it's up to you to make the decisions you need to live in this world.

Now if there was no rap or violence in tv/movies, the world might be a little different in terms of either more peaceful or safe. Who the fuck knows really?

Fillmoe
10-30-2007, 02:02 PM
How many of you actually listen to hip hop? Or do you just watch that bullshit that is on TV and feel you know enough to comment?

Spawn
10-30-2007, 02:11 PM
How many of you actually listen to hip hop? Or do you just watch that bullshit that is on TV and feel you know enough to comment?

I do not listen to as much hip hop as I used to, or much of today's music for that matter, but a common mistake people make with hip hop is to believe that what they see on television with these Black sambo minstrels with the gold in their teeth feeding Our people ignorance and glorifying all that is wrong is what hip hop is all about. Their are many people within the hip hop community who promote a positive message, it is just that they are not as popular because lets face it, A-merry-ca loves its Black sambo minstrels, and they love them dumb and ignorant.

samikeyp
10-30-2007, 03:45 PM
I know enough about it not to blame it for the problems caused by today's athletes.

resistanze
10-30-2007, 04:18 PM
George W. Bush listens to too much Hip-Hop.

stretch
10-30-2007, 04:49 PM
:lol

dirk4mvp
10-30-2007, 05:01 PM
Like it usually is, Hip Hop is the scapegoat. :rolleyes

TheSanityAnnex
10-30-2007, 05:22 PM
When did they start playing hip-hop on the radio?

StylisticS
10-30-2007, 08:19 PM
This article is pure bullshit, and the fact that it is coming from a Black man makes me all the more furious about this. It is articles such as these that feed the already existing bigotry and negative stereotypes towards Black people, especially Black men. The way Whitlock makes it sound it is as if this "culture" is an epidimic in the NFL. The players that he list as having these problems make up what, 0.5% of the Black athletes in the NFL? I swear Blacks have to be the only race that the actions of a few reflect badly on the race as a whole and it is a damn shame.

Same here regarding the part in bold. He, as well as the person (I forgot his name, I think someone else knows) that CNN, FOX News, and MSNBC gets to always say something negative about blacks are in the same boat. I was going to have a long rant but it looks like others already stated it.

Spawn
10-31-2007, 02:24 AM
Same here regarding the part in bold. He, as well as the person (I forgot his name, I think someone else knows) that CNN, FOX News, and MSNBC gets to always say something negative about blacks are in the same boat. I was going to have a long rant but it looks like others already stated it.

Jesse Lee Peterson or Armstrong Williams are the usual suspects.

Extra Stout
10-31-2007, 05:18 PM
No, hip-hop culture is not itself the problem, nor is it limited to the black community.

We have a national culture that glorifies self and promotes individual expression at the expense of the group. We believe in short-term self-gratification. We believe in no authority higher than our own whims. We are groomed this way in order to become mindless consumers.

The only reason this degenerative dynamic shows up more quickly in the black community is because of its dearth of cultural capital in the wake of an incomplete labor-based integration policy in the 1960's that destroyed the majority of the black economy in America.

Furthermore, I wonder... did Duane Thomas listen to hip-hop? How about Hollywood Henderson?

Spawn
10-31-2007, 08:37 PM
No, hip-hop culture is not itself the problem, nor is it limited to the black community.

We have a national culture that glorifies self and promotes individual expression at the expense of the group. We believe in short-term self-gratification. We believe in no authority higher than our own whims. We are groomed this way in order to become mindless consumers.

The only reason this degenerative dynamic shows up more quickly in the black community is because of its dearth of cultural capital in the wake of an incomplete labor-based integration policy in the 1960's that destroyed the majority of the black economy in America.

Furthermore, I wonder... did Duane Thomas listen to hip-hop? How about Hollywood Henderson?

What do you mean by the dearth of cultural capital? I absolutely agree with you on integration, just look at my sig. Integration happened way too soon. It has developed a culture of dependance in the Black community waiting for daddy government to all of a sudden start caring for us and wishing to assimilate into the dominant American culture and that absolutely makes me sick because it will never happen. Why do we expect a government to help and care for us when they have historically shunned us. Integration has stagnated the Black cause and absolutely killed the Black economy. In my opinion for the Black community to once again rise up their must be increases in Black owned and Black ran businesses for starters and we must accept the fact that the government will never care for us and look to support each other to get by just as they did in the segregation years. Then we can talk about integration but without being at the mercy of others because we will be standing on our own two feet.

One of my favorite quotes "To be successful, all mass movements had to rely on themselves."

Reggie Miller
11-01-2007, 09:11 AM
To put it even more bluntly, black Americans do not control the means of production, even in the industries that black Americans dominate. As a result, even black art is indirectly controlled by other ethnic and racial groups.

I am somewhat sympathetic to the notion that a lot of hip hop and rap music is a form of "selling out." Who is a safe target for the black man? Certainly not whites. Is it any wonder that the music often degrades black women, the one safe target? The net result is an industry largely controlled by white or Asian people (Sony/Columbia) that often presents negative images of black people. Obviously, this is a problem.

Is it a massive conspiracy? I highly doubt it. However, the cultural and psychological assumptions of America (and humanity generallY) make it so easy and "natural" that no one wants to address the problem. ("I'm making money, and if blacks want to run down their own people, who am I to stop them?")

A lot of people (in this thread and elsewhere) have and will address this in a more articulate way, but there is some grain of truth in Whitlock's self-hating diatribes. That is, "hip hop culture" is not to blame, but it is a reflection of a larger cultural problem. What concerns me is that this cycle cannot be broken without economic power and control, which is about the last thing that anyone ever concedes...

703 Spurz
11-01-2007, 09:21 AM
How many of you actually listen to hip hop? Or do you just watch that bullshit that is on TV and feel you know enough to comment?

I grew up with rap but I hate it now. I was a huge Snoop, Dre, 2Pac, Biggie, Busta and Jay-Z fan. Some old school mixed in too, DMC, Sugarhill Gang...

Not so much anymore

BeerIsGood!
11-01-2007, 12:52 PM
I grew up with rap but I hate it now. I was a huge Snoop, Dre, 2Pac, Biggie, Busta and Jay-Z fan. Some old school mixed in too, DMC, Sugarhill Gang...

Not so much anymore

Same here. I outgrew it.

Lebowski Brickowski
11-01-2007, 03:19 PM
One thing the author gets wrong is using "Hip Hop Culture" as a term to describe something that shitty hip-hop is merely a symptom of. Songs about money, hoes, and guns = selfishness, hatred, and immediate gratification. The shitty hip-hop that trumpets those values can be seen as advertising for a way of living that values those things.

There's really no reason to have to defend "Hip-Hop" by pointing out that there are positve messages of brotherhood, friendship, respect, introspection, faith, etc.... in the best rap out there. That's not what the author means when he says "Hip Hop Culture."

The shit-ass hip-hop music like (forgive me for the lame example -- I'm 30 and stopped caring about that MTV crap years ago) Cash Money Millionaires doesn't MAKE anybody do anything. But it exists , and is crap; and it promotes a culture that exists and espouses those values of me-first, fuck you, bitches aint nothin but hos, my Pit Bull is the baddest, guns to protect me from the playa-hata who wants a slice of mine. It's fucking LUDICROUS and anybody who can't see it in the attitude of many professional athletes is kidding himself.

It doesn't matter if the athlete is white or black. It's the fucking choice he makes that matters. Black people are a targeted market by that shit-ass-trash culture therefore young black people are susceptible. I would argue that athletes are more susceptible than the general population because athletes are already living a life that allows them to act however immaturely they want to with impunity.

There you have the recipe for the "attitude" that the author descries in this article.

In his own limited way, the author is spot-on.

btw-- this problem in Pro Football is only the very tip of the iceberg in this conflict of culture and life.

SRJ
11-02-2007, 02:57 PM
TO can be a horse's ass, but Whitlock identifies him in the article as hip-hop. To me, there's nothing particularly hip-hop about TO, bad as he's been. Same for Chad Johnson, who is much less destructive than TO can be.

Frankly I don't know enough about the subject of hip-hop to know if problematic players are immersed in that culture and if said culture is having an adverse effect, but on the basis of what I do know it seems that Whitlock is putting too much emphasis on the hip-hop culture and not enough on the fact that certain players lack character. Take the hip-hop away from Pac-Man, and he's still an asshole. Ditto Ricky Manning Jr.

Extra Stout
11-02-2007, 04:22 PM
What do you mean by the dearth of cultural capital? I absolutely agree with you on integration, just look at my sig. Integration happened way too soon. It has developed a culture of dependance in the Black community waiting for daddy government to all of a sudden start caring for us and wishing to assimilate into the dominant American culture and that absolutely makes me sick because it will never happen. Why do we expect a government to help and care for us when they have historically shunned us. Integration has stagnated the Black cause and absolutely killed the Black economy. In my opinion for the Black community to once again rise up their must be increases in Black owned and Black ran businesses for starters and we must accept the fact that the government will never care for us and look to support each other to get by just as they did in the segregation years. Then we can talk about integration but without being at the mercy of others because we will be standing on our own two feet.

One of my favorite quotes "To be successful, all mass movements had to rely on themselves."
By dearth of cultural capital I refer to Pierre Bourdieu's concepts of cultural capital.

When America integrated, it did so only in consumer and labor markets. There was no equal access to capital. Therefore, black businesses, which, though discriminated against on the basis of access to resources, were nevertheless protected against competition from white businesses because of institutionalized segregation, had that protection removed before they had the opportunity to become competitive.

So I think you have the right idea. You also are correct in the articulation that mass movements have to rely on themselves.