U.S. draft may be unavoidable

[Nbadan]

Sen. Hagel says U.S. draft may be unavoidable


LINCOLN — Sen. Chuck Hagel, speaking to audience of Lincoln High School students, warned Tuesday that the nation may need to turn to compulsory military service "or some kind of draft" to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Questioned after his speech, Hagel, R-Neb., said he is not calling for reinstatement of the military draft.

But he said the growing difficulty of maintaining an adequate volunteer military force is "a reality."

"I'm just stating the obvious. At some point we're going to have to make a decision on how to attract a quality force," he said.

Hagel, a Vietnam veteran and Purple Heart recipient, spoke to more than 120 government and history students as part of a project to have veterans speak to students about their experiences.

The U.S. military draft ended in 1973, part of the bitter reaction to the Vietnam War.

Hagel told the Lincoln students that the burdens of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are being carried by too small a share of the nation's population.

"We have more than 300 million people in this country, but less than 1 percent of our population has to bear all of the burden, to make all of the sacrifices, to do all the fighting and all the dying for the rest of us," he said.

"There are people serving in Iraq for the third time, in Afghanistan for the third time. They're ruining their families, suffering post-traumatic stress disorder and significant injuries. They're not going to bear that burden any longer," he said.

Hagel, who has been a prominent critic of President Bush's Iraq policies, said the nation must make a "difficult assessment" on whether to return to some kind of draft or other form of compulsory national service.

Students listened quietly and said little during Hagel's speech. At the end, Hagel took a handful of pre-selected questions that students had composed on Monday with the aid of their teachers.

Social studies teacher Bill Zuspan said he and his students have discussed the possibility of a draft in the past, and he knows how they will react to Hagel's comments.

"They don't like the idea," he said.

Hagel said he is "well-aware" of the sacrifices Lincoln High School has made in the Iraq war. Two graduates, Army 1st Lt. Garrison Avery, 23, and Marine Lance Cpl. Mike Scholl, 21, have died in Iraq.

He urged students to seek solutions besides war to the world's problems.

"Terrorism, extremism, biological weapons, chemical weapons, nuclear weapons — those are a threat to all mankind, not just Christians and not just Americans," he said.

"War is nothing noble or good; it's all about brutality and suffering, and that should frighten you and intimidate you into doing what's right, to prevent going to war."

Omaha World Herald (http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_page=2798&u_sid=10177959)

When the long-delayed draft comes, "Don't Ask Don't Tell" will finally come to an end as a good percentage of the draft-aged population will have no problem saying they are gay. Just don't wait for this to happen under Dubya. The Republicans love war....unless its them doing the fighting...

[Nbadan]

The corporate chieftains who now run this country want this war, and anyone who opposes it, or tries to stop this corporate-war will be protrayed as a 'radical' (even though a majority of American want us out of Iraq) by the corporate M$M ..in tried and true Republican fashion, anything you say or do will be considered anti-American

Morton West High School Expulsion

Over 30 anti-war protesters at Morton West High School in Berwyn face expulsion for a demonstration at the school on Thursday.
Scores of Students Face Expulsion Due to Sit-in Berwyn, IL
November 06, 2007


Over 70 students participated in a sit-in against the Iraq War on All Saint's Day, Thursday, November 1st. It began third hour when dozens of students gathered quietly in the lunchroom at Morton West High School and refused to leave. The administrators and police became involved immediately and locked down the school for a half hour after class ended. Students report that they were promised that there would be no charges besides cutting classes if they took their protest outside so as not to disturb the school day. The students complied, and were led to a corner outside the cafeteria where they sang songs and held signs while classes resumed.

Despite a police line set up between the protestors and the student body, many other students joined the demonstration. Organizers say they chose November first because it is the Christian holy day called the feast of All Saints and a national day of peace. They wrote a letter and delivered it to Superintendent, Dr. Ben Nowakowski who was present at the time, stating the reason for their protest.

Deans, counselors and even the Superintendent tried to change the minds of a few, mainly those students with higher GPA scores to abandon the protest. The school called the homes of many of the protestors. Those whose parents arrived before the end of school and took their students home, or left before the protest ended at the final bell, received 3-5 days suspension. All others, an estimated 37 received 10 days suspension and expulsion papers. Parents report that Nowakowski stated those who are seventeen will also face police charges.

Parents who are frantically trying to spare their child's expulsion flooded the school yesterday to file appeals on the matter. So far, Superintendent Nowakowski has held firm on the punishments. They are expected to find out the results of the appeals on Tuesday. Parents and students report and the school's videotape shown to some of the parents confirms that the students were non-violent in their action.

The protest came on the heels of a recent incident on October 15th, when a student reported hearing that another student had a gun on campus. The story of the eyewitness was deemed unreliable and the school was not locked down. Later that week (October 19), the Berwyn police, acting on a tip arrested one of the youths originally questioned for gun possession and he allegedly confessed to carrying an unloaded semi-automatic handgun that day. All these issues, plus the expected announcement of whether uniforms will be established in the school should make the next Board of Education meeting on Wednesday at 7:00pm at the Morton East campus very well-attended.

Link (http://www.jsmortonhs.com/news/contentview.asp)

[PixelPusher]

Iraq isn't worth a national draft, and they know it. More likely, this will lead to increased reliance on mercenary outfits like Blackwater USA.

[Nbadan]

I'm with you on that....except we've already hired all the South African white supremacists and Costa Rican execution squads....

[Nbadan]

White supremists, gang-members, criminals, rapists....we'll take anyone for Iraq...


WASHINGTON - Faced with higher recruiting goals, the Pentagon is quietly looking for ways to make it easier for people with minor criminal records to join the military, The Associated Press has learned.


The review, in its early stages, comes as the number of Army recruits needing waivers for bad behavior — such as trying drugs, stealing, carrying weapons on school grounds and fighting — rose from 15 percent in 2006 to 18 percent this year. And it reflects the services' growing use of criminal, health and other waivers to build their ranks.

Overall, about three in every 10 recruits must get a waiver, according to Pentagon statistics obtained by AP, and about two-thirds of those approved in recent years have been for criminal behavior. Some recruits must get more than one waiver to cover things ranging from any criminal record, to health problems such as asthma or flat feet, to low aptitude scores — and even for some tattoos

Yahooooo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_waivers)

They tried this in Vietnam and it was a disaster....many of these guys were the human-rights abusers that movies are made of...

[PixelPusher]

Here's a question everyone on this board (based on a scenario posed by someone else): What if the U.S. sent in an all-mercenary (or private contractor, if you prefer that focus group tested euphamism) force into Darfur/Sudan for peace keeping and humanitarian missions? No oil, no fantasy WMDs, just plain 'ol world policing, armed altruism. I still need to mull this one over, but at first blush it seems like a perfectly benign, feel good, bipartisan, UN supported way to...neuter the U.S. military in favor of mercenaries like the Romans did.

[703 Spurz]

"There are people serving in Iraq for the third time, in Afghanistan for the third time. They're ruining their families, suffering post-traumatic stress disorder and significant injuries. They're not going to bear that burden any longer," he said.

So I'm going to be forced to fight in a war I don't want to fight in where I'll either be killed or suffer all the bullshit the soldiers are suffering over there later?

Why the fuck do you think 1% of the country are soldiers. Not all of us want to be in the god damn armed forces

[Walter Craparita]

White supremists, gang-members, criminals, rapists....we'll take anyone for Iraq...



Yahooooo (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071106/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_waivers)

They tried this in Vietnam and it was a disaster....many of these guys were the human-rights abusers that movies are made of...


Better than taking those in college trying to better themselves and ultimately their country.

[clambake]

Better than taking those in college trying to better themselves and ultimately their country.
are you suggesting we broaden this program to include prisoners serving out a sentence?

[Yonivore]

Maxwell Klinger, Jamie Farr's character on "M*A*S*H," used to dress in women's clothing in an attempt to prove he was insane and gain a discharge from the Army. USA Today reports (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2007-11-06-cheating-troops_N.htm) some American servicemen are doing just the opposite:


Troops in Iraq and elsewhere have tried to avoid being pulled out of combat units by cheating on problem-solving tests that are used to spot traumatic brain-injury problems, military doctors say. . . .

The tests, administered by medics in the field, are the military's primary means of uncovering subtle signs of brain injuries from exposure to blasts.

Reports of cheating began surfacing in Iraq during the summer, says Col. Brian Eastridge, a trauma surgeon who supervises medical care in Iraq and Afghanistan from his office in Baghdad.

Troops had obtained copies of an older version of the test and memorized key words used to gauge short-term memory, Jaffee says. Those who fail areas of the test undergo more sophisticated exams for diagnosing brain injury.

If symptoms persist, soldiers are sent home.
Lt. Col. Michael Jaffee of the Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center explains the cheaters' motives: "With highly motivated individuals, be they athletes, be they our servicemembers in harm's way, there is a motivation to stay with the unit and stay on the job or stay in the game."

The military has come up with new versions of the test to thwart the cheaters, who had memorized the answers to the old test. And well it should, for cheating is not only dishonest but dangerous. Jaffe says soldiers who fight despite brain injuries risk being "exposed to a second concussion or mild traumatic brain injury. It could have more devastating effects not only on their health, but on the mission's success, or perhaps on the safety of the people on their patrol."

Yet while the cheaters' actions are wrong, their determination is admirable. Their eagerness to serve their country in combat belies the liberal stereotype of soldiers as victims--a stereotype that might have had considerable truth in the era of conscription but that, like much of what passes for liberalism these days, has long been outdated.

[xrayzebra]

I think the draft was the greatest thing that ever happened and
I think every able bodied male should have to serve. Regardless.
No exceptions. Our young are mostly soft and pampered. And
they need the silver cord severed.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think the draft was the greatest thing that ever happened and
I think every able bodied male should have to serve. Regardless.
No exceptions. Our young are mostly soft and pampered. And
they need the silver cord severed.


why do incorporate gayness into everything ray?


mostly soft and pampered

[xrayzebra]

why do incorporate gayness into everything ray?

Only you and Chump could find gayness in my post. I
think you may have a crush on me. But I like ladies. Sorry
but I am the old fashion type.

[Yonivore]

Speaking of "gayness," I thought this was funny!


http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/110707gayst.jpg

Monday's Columbus Dispatch (http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2007/11/05/GAYSTREET.ART_ART_11-05-07_B1_6I8CHDK.html?sid=101) previewed a change that was scheduled to come today (photo by reader Hugh Greentree):


There will be a grand "reopening" of Gay Street on Wednesday. No fanfare is planned, and the street never was officially closed, but tell that to merchants who have struggled to attract customers during the six months it's taken to convert Gay from a one-way street.

The half-mile stretch from Cleveland Avenue to Front Street will open to two-way traffic sometime after the morning rush hour, weather permitting.

It's a big change on Downtown's arterial landscape. Ask how long Gay has been one-way and the official city response is "a long time."
Not that there's anything wrong with that! But take a look at the results:

http://ee.dispatch.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=TCD/2007/11/05/11/Img/Ar0110300.gif

It's only been a couple of days, and as you can see, Gay is already straight.

[Wild Cobra]

Too many things need to occur before we ever have a draft again. First of all, a serious war where we need at least double our current forces.

Sure, you say we don't have enough people for that. I say Bullshit. The military turns down so many applicants based on tests, fitness, serious criminal records, etc. If people are going to be drafted, isn't it reasonable to assume the military standards would be reduced first to get as many willing participants first?

[Yonivore]

Speaking of the draft:

"Draft Gore" concert in Iowa cancelled due to poor ticket sales. (http://video1.washingtontimes.com/bellantoni/2007/11/run_al_run_concert_called_off.html)

[LaMarcus Bryant]

We need to take a census of who supported going to war in 2003 and who defends the "reasons" for going to war now, create an algorithm for level of gayness and ignorance based the answers, and make everyone who gets a 0.6 or greater enlist in the armed forces.

[mookie2001]

We need to take a census of who supported going to war in 2003 and who defends the "reasons" for going to war now, create an algorithm for level of gayness and ignorance based the answers, and make everyone who gets a 0.6 or greater enlist in the armed forces.Lamarcused:smchode:

[Nbadan]

We need to take a census of who supported going to war in 2003 and who defends the "reasons" for going to war now, create an algorithm for level of gayness and ignorance based the answers, and make everyone who gets a 0.6 or greater enlist in the armed forces.


A gay Algorithm? Is that like a gay gene?

[Nbadan]

Too many things need to occur before we ever have a draft again. First of all, a serious war where we need at least double our current forces.


Well...let's take a quick inventory...we have a cluster-fuck going on in Iraq, a what-the-fuck going on in Afghanistan....a Holy-shit in Pakistan....and a Oh, fuck no, about to explode in Iran, Turkey, and Lebanon...I would say, that's pretty serious shit...

[xrayzebra]

Well...let's take a quick inventory...we have a cluster-fuck going on in Iraq, a what-the-fuck going on in Afghanistan....a Holy-shit in Pakistan....and a Oh, fuck no, about to explode in Iran, Turkey, and Lebanon...I would say, that's pretty serious shit...

Say one thing for you dan. You got profane down pat.
Now if you would just learn something about world
affairs.

[Wild Cobra]

Well...let's take a quick inventory...we have a cluster-fuck going on in Iraq, a what-the-fuck going on in Afghanistan....a Holy-shit in Pakistan....and a Oh, fuck no, about to explode in Iran, Turkey, and Lebanon...I would say, that's pretty serious shit...
What makes you think we need to police the whole world?

[Nbadan]

The Army is struggling to find volunteers for an unpopular war, despite recruiting bonuses of up to $20,000 and pay increases for enlistees that have beaten inflation by 21 percent since 2000.

It met its numeric goal of 80,000 recruits last year, but it paid a price in terms of declining numbers of high school graduates and lower scores on skills and physical tests. The percentage of minimally qualified Army recruits, known as Category IVs, has quadrupled since 2002, and the percentage that required special health or moral waivers has risen sharply as well.

-----

Pentagon and outside experts cite these factors in order of importance:

While risks to U.S. troops are far lower than they were in most previous wars, young adults and their parents find them unacceptably high.

Parents who went to college want their kids to go to college. So do parents who didn't. As the college-bound percentage of high school students has risen to two-thirds, the percentage that intends to enlist in any branch of the military has fallen by nearly two-thirds.

Link (http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/21203.html)

The risk of being killed are low, but the risk of being traumatically-injured are extraordinarily high as in any dirty war...