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xrayzebra
11-08-2007, 11:19 AM
I read this article this morning written by Thomas Sowell
and had to share it with you. I thought about SA210 in
regards to "feeding the homeless" she is so fond of doing.

Read and think about what Dr. Sowell is saying.



Jewish World Review Nov. 6, 2007 / 25 Mar-Cheshvan 5768

Stop ‘making a difference’

By Thomas Sowell




http://www.JewishWorldReview.com | Among the many mindless mantras of our time, "making a difference" and "giving back" irritate me like chalk screeching across a blackboard.


I would be scared to death to "make a difference" in the way pilots fly airliners or brain surgeons operate. Any difference I might make could be fatal to many people.


Making a difference makes sense only if you are convinced that you have mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better.


Very few people have mastered anything that well beyond their own limited circle of knowledge. Even fewer seem to think far enough ahead to consider that question. Yet hardly a day goes by without news of some uninformed busybodies on one crusade or another.


Even the simplest acts have ramifications that spread across society the way waves spread across a pond when you drop a stone in it.


Among those who make a difference by serving food to the homeless, how many have considered the history of societies which have made idleness easy for great numbers of people?


How many have studied the impact of drunken idlers on other people in their own society, including children who come across their needles in the park — if they dare to go to the parks?


How many have even considered such questions relevant as they drop their stone in the pond without thinking about the waves that spread out to others?


Maybe some would still do what they do, even if they thought about it. But that doesn't mean that thinking is a waste of time. "Giving back" is a similarly mindless mantra.



I have donated money, books and blood for people I have never seen and to whom I owe nothing. Nor is that unusual among Americans, who do more of this than anyone else.


But we are not "giving back" anything to those people because we never took anything from them in the first place.


If we are giving back to society at large, in exchange for all that society has made possible for us, then that is a very different ballgame.


Giving back in that sense means acknowledging an obligation to those who went before us and for the institutions and values that enable us to prosper today. But there is very little of this spirit of gratitude and loyalty in many of those who urge us to "give back."


Indeed, many who repeat the "giving back" mantra would sneer at any such notion as patriotism or any idea that the institutions and values of American society have accomplished worthy things and deserve their support, instead of their undermining.


Our educational system, from the schools to the universities, are actively undermining any sense of loyalty to the traditions, institutions and values of American society.


They are not giving back anything except condemnation, often depicting sins common to the human race around the world as peculiar evils of "our society."


A classic example is slavery, which is repeatedly drummed into our heads — in the schools and in the media — as something unique done by white people to black people in the United States.


The tragic fact is that, for thousands of years of recorded history, people of every race and color have been both slaves and enslavers.


The Europeans enslaved on the Barbary Coast of North Africa alone were far more numerous than all the Africans brought to the United States and to the 13 colonies from which it was formed.


What was unique about Western civilization was that it was the first civilization to turn against slavery, and that it stamped out slavery not only in its own societies but in other societies around the world during the era of Western imperialism.


That process took well over a century, because non-Western societies resisted. White people, as well as black people, were still being bought and sold as slaves, decades after the Emancipation Proclamation freed blacks in the United States.


Those who want to "give back" should give back the truth. It is a debt that is long overdue.

Oh, Gee!!
11-08-2007, 01:50 PM
charity is bad. got it.

Spurminator
11-08-2007, 01:57 PM
This column warms my heart.

Oh, Gee!!
11-08-2007, 02:00 PM
slavery is no big deal. got it.

Extra Stout
11-08-2007, 02:00 PM
Jesus clearly was off-base in his teachings about the poor. He didn't understand true Christian compassion the way Thomas Sowell does.

Wild Cobra
11-08-2007, 04:35 PM
My God. Don't you guys get it?

Giving something away to people who can work takes the need for them to work away, and unless they have self motivation, they stay down in the dumps, as long as we make it easy for them.

Want to relate it to Christian beliefs?

Jesus once said something like “Give a mad a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats everyday.”

Giving alone does nothing to those who should be self sufficient, and we shouldn’t make it easy for them to always be on the take. That only prolongs their condition, and makes things worse than not giving at all.

Oh, Gee!!
11-08-2007, 04:42 PM
don't feed the hungry. got it.

Extra Stout
11-08-2007, 04:43 PM
If anybody is hungry or homeless, it is because they are just lazy. Feeding and housing them is encouraging idleness.

George Gervin's Afro
11-08-2007, 04:44 PM
don't feed the hungry. got it.


that's the christian way. I guess i should go to my church and ask them to stop feeding the homeless people. when they ask me why I'll then say it's for their own good.

ChumpDumper
11-08-2007, 04:45 PM
Teach the mentally ill how to fish.

Problem solved.

George Gervin's Afro
11-08-2007, 04:46 PM
Teach the mentally ill how to fish.

Problem solved.


don't give them a fishing rod or bait... just show them with the one you have and then leave them empty handed at the lake... that's the christian way..

Extra Stout
11-08-2007, 04:46 PM
This is really simple. When I "give back," I am not giving back to specific needy people. I am giving back what God has provided to me in the first place. I am giving back to a community which has supported me in my own time of need.

What that has to do with undermining American institutions, or slavery, I have no idea.

Oh, Gee!!
11-08-2007, 04:47 PM
according to the article, you "give back" because you're a know-it-all.

George Gervin's Afro
11-08-2007, 04:47 PM
throw them in the lake


yes. they can then catch fish with their hands.. !

Spurminator
11-08-2007, 05:12 PM
You're giving back to a society that has set up a system of laws that, for example, allow you to keep homeless people from squatting in your back yard (or on your 5,000 acre ranch, whichever).

Mr. Peabody
11-08-2007, 05:23 PM
You're giving back to a society that has set up a system of laws that, for example, allow you to keep homeless people from squatting in your back yard (or on your 5,000 acre ranch, whichever).

You obviously have no regard for traditional values or for those who came before you.

PixelPusher
11-08-2007, 09:33 PM
yes. they can then catch fish with their hands.. !
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat fish every day and die prematurely of mercury poisoning.

SRJ
11-08-2007, 11:14 PM
No one should be self-sufficient. We should all suckle at the government's teat. Now I understand.

Thanks, everyone.

xrayzebra
11-09-2007, 09:26 AM
No one should be self-sufficient. We should all suckle at the government's teat. Now I understand.

Thanks, everyone.

Well I see you got the message from all the really wise ones
that replied to Dr. Sowells column. Government handouts
are good. Making people earn something is evil.

The sarcastic smart guys wouldn't make a good pimple on
his rear end.

George Gervin's Afro
11-09-2007, 09:32 AM
Well I see you got the message from all the really wise ones
that replied to Dr. Sowells column. Government handouts
are good. Making people earn something is evil.

The sarcastic smart guys wouldn't make a good pimple on
his rear end.


what about those who can't help themselves? mentally ill? bed ridden? physically handicapped?


I guess christ would tell those folks to get a job and go to mcdonalds..

xrayzebra
11-09-2007, 09:41 AM
what about those who can't help themselves? mentally ill? bed ridden? physically handicapped?


I guess christ would tell those folks to get a job and go to mcdonalds..

How about them? They should be taken care of if their
families are incapable of doing it, either financially
or physically.

You know what I find ironic? During my lifetime the
bums on the street have increased dramatically. And
the bleeding hearts cant spend enough of the tax
payers money to care for them. Most of the bums on
the streets today are quite capable of working. They
just need to sober up or leave the drugs alone long
enough to hold down a job. Some of them have mental
problems that used to be handled by placing them in
mental institutions. The "do-gooders" went to the
liberal courts and got them all released so they could
live the "good" life. Look at what it got them.

But back to your original question. No one has ever
said there aren't people who need help. Because there
are.

George Gervin's Afro
11-09-2007, 09:53 AM
How about them? They should be taken care of if their
families are incapable of doing it, either financially
or physically.

You know what I find ironic? During my lifetime the
bums on the street have increased dramatically. And
the bleeding hearts cant spend enough of the tax
payers money to care for them. Most of the bums on
the streets today are quite capable of working. They
just need to sober up or leave the drugs alone long
enough to hold down a job. Some of them have mental
problems that used to be handled by placing them in
mental institutions. The "do-gooders" went to the
liberal courts and got them all released so they could
live the "good" life. Look at what it got them.

But back to your original question. No one has ever
said there aren't people who need help. Because there
are.


most homeless shelter's are privately run? food kitchens ? what do us bleeding liberl hearts spend on them? i am glad to hear that you at least acknowledge that the govt has some responsibilities for the most unfortunate in this country. yes ray i'll agree with you that some of those homeless bums are just bums. they stand on street corners and peddle for money to buy beer.

xrayzebra
11-09-2007, 11:05 AM
most homeless shelter's are privately run? food kitchens ? what do us bleeding liberl hearts spend on them? i am glad to hear that you at least acknowledge that the govt has some responsibilities for the most unfortunate in this country. yes ray i'll agree with you that some of those homeless bums are just bums. they stand on street corners and peddle for money to buy beer.

We spend tons of taxpayer dollars on the homeless. Look
at the "campus" they are building here in SA for them. So
they can have a one stop center to take care of their needs.

And Yes, many private groups do run shelters and kitchens
for them. I have no problem with that. It is money
freely donated and used for it's intended purpose. But
many of the so called private caregivers are in fact
kept going with taxpayer dollars. That I have a problem
with. If someone needs care, as we discussed previously,
then facilities or caregivers should be provided. I am
all for having caregivers that go into homes to help families
care of love ones who have a physical or mental problem.
And paying for it with taxpayer money. It would be
cheaper than putting them in hospitals. And in most
cases it is only to help bathe, give exercise and help
dress those with physical disabilities. And I do realize,
more than you know, that sometimes the loved ones
are physically unable to do these things.

Wild Cobra
11-09-2007, 07:06 PM
You know what I find ironic? During my lifetime the
bums on the street have increased dramatically.
Yep, Supply and demand economics.

The more you supply an easy life for the bums, the more people who are willing to become bums!

Throwing more and more money at such situations just makes it easier to stay there, and more and more will follow the money. Take the benefits away, and they will get the help they need, clean up, and find jobs. We just have to force them to do this.

Yes, there are some who truly are unable to provide for themselves. I give exceptions. I just want those capable of working to work!

Extra Stout
11-09-2007, 07:15 PM
Yep, Supply and demand economics.

The more you supply an easy life for the bums, the more people who are willing to become bums!

Throwing more and more money at such situations just makes it easier to stay there, and more and more will follow the money. Take the benefits away, and they will get the help they need, clean up, and find jobs. We just have to force them to do this.

Yes, there are some who truly are unable to provide for themselves. I give exceptions. I just want those capable of working to work!
There are other countries where people who are unemployed receive a stipend to support themselves: Germany, for example. However, a German is humiliated if he has to receive that stipend, and does whatever he can to find work.

Germans were shocked to learn that several hundred thousand people were abusing the system to get a free ride, in a country of 80 million. That's nearly 1%!

In the USA, if we had that kind of system, I bet 30% of the population would quit working and leech off everybody else. It's not supply and demand; it's that our national culture has degenerated into absolute garbage. We are utterly selfish. In some people that manifests itself as an entitlement to a living without working. In others it manifests itself as complete indifference to those in need.

Walter Craparita
11-10-2007, 05:03 PM
My God. Don't you guys get it?

Giving something away to people who can work takes the need for them to work away, and unless they have self motivation, they stay down in the dumps, as long as we make it easy for them.



That's what the dems want man!

A useless horde of losers who are promised benefits for the rest of their lives.

George Gervin's Afro
11-10-2007, 10:09 PM
That's what the dems want man!

A useless horde of losers who are promised benefits for the rest of their lives.


I don't think I have heard any dem say that? can you back that up? or are you just talking out of your ass again?... I'll wait to hear back from you..

Wild Cobra
11-11-2007, 06:24 PM
I don't think I have heard any dem say that? can you back that up? or are you just talking out of your ass again?... I'll wait to hear back from you..
They will never say they want that, but it supports their need for creating the buracracy of more social programs.

xrayzebra
11-12-2007, 10:15 AM
They will never say they want that, but it supports their need for creating the buracracy of more social programs.

Like amnesty for Illegals. More dimm-o-crap votes. And
more poor, below the poverty line, people eligible for
the bennies that government can "give" them. Like the
taxpayers don't pick up the tab.

Winehole23
11-23-2015, 02:10 PM
http://economics.mit.edu/files/10849

RandomGuy
11-23-2015, 02:35 PM
http://economics.mit.edu/files/10849


ABSTRACT
Targeted transfer programs for poor citizens have become
increasingly common in the developing world. Yet, a common
concern among policy makers – both in developing as well as
developed countries – is that such programs tend to discourage
work. We re-analyze the data from 7 randomized controlled trials
of government-run cash transfer programs in six developing
countries throughout the world, and find no systematic evidence
that cash transfer programs discourage work.

RandomGuy
11-23-2015, 02:36 PM
They will never say they want that, but it supports their need for creating the buracracy of more social programs.

I would believe that when you can tell me who exactly collects welfare. How old, how many children, etc.

Define "welfare" and point me to the specific program.

RandomGuy
11-23-2015, 02:36 PM
I don't think harming other people is immoral.

we could go back to this fun thread.