lol, Dallas Mavericks

[Findog]

barely beat the Warriors with Pietrus and Jackson out. If I'm gonna make fun of Mike D'Antoni, I'll be fair and make fun of my team when they deserve it.

I don't necessarily think they're scared of Golden State, but it's become a thing. Dirk just didn't look right last night, he got good looks and he was missing shots he normally makes. He definitely presses against the Warriors, the defense on him wasn't that good last night.

[dirk4mvp]

lol, I went to bed thinking I'd wake up to a 20 point blowout.

[Findog]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AgKRXevNuWpFDfy4pYm1.Ao5nYcB?slug=jy-mavs110907&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


By Johnny Ludden, Yahoo! Sports


OAKLAND, Calif. – Dirk Nowitzki can't tell you where the trash can landed. Or if it even was a trash can. All Nowitzki remembers from that maddening night last May was that he threw something.

The Golden State Warriors had checked Nowitzki for 5½ games in last season's playoffs, leaving him and the rest of the Dallas Mavericks on the brink of one of the greatest first-round collapses in NBA history. The Mavericks' 67 regular-season victories, their championship aspirations, even the instant credibility that comes with the MVP award he was likely to win – all of it was two quarters away from being snuffed out.

Nowitzki's frustration finally boiled over as he trudged to the visitors locker room at Oracle Arena during halftime. Having missed his first eight shots and sensing his evening wasn't going to get much better, he grabbed the first thing he saw and chucked it.

According to witnesses, the trashcan sailed over a partition and crashed hard into a hallway wall, leaving a hole. The Warriors never bothered sending Nowitzki a bill.

"I guess they left me off the hook," Nowitzki said Thursday morning upon his return to Oracle Arena, "or they may have not seen who it was."


The wall has since been repaired, offering little evidence of Nowitzki's handiwork. As for the psychological scars the Warriors carved into the Mavericks last May?

Plaster and paint aren't going to cover those.

Even the Mavericks will tell you their 120-115 victory over Golden State on Thursday night didn't count for much. Not with Stephen Jackson's suspension sentencing the Warriors' second-best player and top Nowitzki agitator to another night at home in front of the TV. Not after Baron Davis hung another 37 points on them then sprung free in the closing seconds only to mercifully miss a 24-footer that could have sent the game into overtime.

And even if the Mavericks had beaten Golden State at full strength, they're wise enough to know redemption comes in April, May and June. Not November.

"Nothing we do in the regular season will matter, even if we go 81-1," Nowitzki said. "Anything we do now doesn't matter."

That's not entirely true. The Mavericks do hope to use the regular season to correct some of the flaws exposed by Golden State. If Thursday night was any indicator, they've already made progress.

After watching Jason Terry wilt in the playoffs, Mavericks coach Avery Johnson moved the scoring guard to the bench to help preserve his energy and afford him more freedom offensively. So far flourishing in his sixth-man role, Terry scored 24 points Thursday.

To counter the Warriors' athleticism, Dallas signed Brandon Bass, a 6-foot-8, 240-pound beast of a forward. Bass gives the Mavericks a big man who can score inside and defend on the perimeter – a necessity in today's small-ball NBA. In his first test against Golden State, he had 10 points, 12 rebounds and two blocks and helped put away the game with a key offensive board in the closing seconds.

And while Nowitzki, at times, continued to twitch at the sight of Davis, he did score 13 of his 22 points in the second half – evidence, according to Johnson, that the Mavericks' enhanced strength program is working.

"That's why we've been lifting weights," Johnson said. "So if you have bad first parts of the season or bad first parts of the game, you can come back strong."

Johnson also has altered his own approach, and that might be the most important change the Mavericks have made, even if he chooses not to admit it. In his first two full seasons as a head coach, the Little General kept his troops marching at a brisk pace throughout the regular season. By the end of the playoffs the Mavericks looked exhausted, as much mentally as physically.

"The General is just learning," said Mario Elie, one of Johnson's assistants. "When you come into the league as a young coach, you have to establish yourself. That's what he did. But now I think he's a lot more relaxed with the group he has around him."

Some of that has to do with the changes Johnson made to his staff. Paul Westphal replaced Del Harris, a holdover from Don Nelson's staff whose relationship with Johnson was strained at times. Elie was hired after Sam Vincent left to take Charlotte's head coaching job. A close friend and former teammate, Elie shares Johnson's fire-and-brimstone intensity, allowing Johnson to take a more measured tone in practices.

Not that Johnson will admit to softening.

"Instead of saying I pulled back, let's say we have more of my players stepping forward," Johnson said. "Maybe I'm the same. But they have improved in their leadership and maturity and responsibility of holding one another and themselves accountable."

Johnson has come to realize Nowitzki is more content to lead by example, much the same way former San Antonio Spurs center David Robinson did. It was Johnson who presided over those Spurs teams, both in the locker room and on the court. He hopes Dallas' young point guard, Devin Harris, will eventually do the same.

Regardless, Nowitzki will continue to shoulder most of the criticism should the Mavericks again fall short of their goals.

"When we took over, we asked Dirk and the rest of the team, do you want to be a Cinderella story and fly under the radar and not talk about winning championships? Or do you want to talk about winning championships where the scrutiny is really high and the rewards are great?" Johnson said. "That's what they wanted.

"When we don't win, a lot of the fingers are pointed at Dirk. That's what he wanted. That's what I wanted, even though we know it's a team sport."

Nowitzki didn't have to go looking for a trash can Thursday night. He and the rest of the Mavericks walked out of Oracle Arena with a rare victory, and while that beat the alternative, it also didn't prove much.

Making a statement? That won't happen until May.

[Findog]

I saw mono's comments in the game thread and as usual, he's being pretty hard on the team, and there's a lot of merit to what he says. The matchup problems from last spring are still there, this team looked tentative at times out there, they barely pulled out a win when the Warriors were missing Jax, Pietrus and a departed J-Rich. Golden State isn't nearly as good right now as they were last spring. Personnel problems are one thing, but there is definitely a mental hold/block thing going on versus Golden State. They don't play with the same confidence that they have against 29 other teams. It's not even an intimidation thing IMO but more like an itch that they just can't scratch.

However, in the Mavs defense, I saw a bit of progress last night. I thought they played hard and were able to implement some of the things they've been working on in response to that series loss. They won't be excellent at those things overnight, but they have 77 games of repetition to perfect it.

I'm glad we got the win, a bit disappointed we struggled when they were so undermanned, but we played better overall against that GS up-tempo style. When you compare what happened last season with last night, they got a win on the road against their toughest opponent that has the personnel to give us matchup fits, a coach who knows us inside and out, and we battled through and got the win, while coming up big in the second half. I still don't want to run into this team in the playoffs though.

[Shank]

I still can't believe some of the shots GS makes. That's what bugs me the most.

[Findog]

I still can't believe some of the shots GS makes. That's what bugs me the most.

How many off-balance 3-pointers go in before you start thinking about Angels in the Outfield? It's like God is a Warriors fan when they play the Mavs.

[Greg Oden]

How many off-balance 3-pointers go in before you start thinking about Angels in the Outfield? It's like God is a Warriors fan when they play the Mavs.

That's because Cuban is the fucking devil. :devil

[LEONARD]

I still can't believe some of the shots GS makes. That's what bugs me the most.

No shit!! When they play the Mavs weird shit happens…

Multiple circus shots
Odd bounces (ie, the loose ball in the 1st half that somehow went to Barnes right under the basket for an easy dunk)
Baron Davis hitting just about everything he throws up (was shooting 12% on 3’s thru the first 4 games)

[Reggie Miller]

I still can't believe some of the shots GS makes. That's what bugs me the most.

Stephen Jackson wasn't playing last night of course, but I've always said that about him. He used to frustrate me when he was with the Pacers becuase he was so streaky. After a while, you started to wonder if he always gave consistent effort. Jax would be all-world one night and AWOL the next.

[1Parker1]

Golden State is going to be lucky just to make the playoffs this season....I don't think Mavs will have to worry about meeting up with them in the playoffs this year at all.

[Findog]

No shit!! When they play the Mavs weird shit happens…

Multiple circus shots
Odd bounces (ie, the loose ball in the 1st half that somehow went to Barnes right under the basket for an easy dunk)
Baron Davis hitting just about everything he throws up (was shooting 12% on 3’s thru the first 4 games)

How about Monta Elllis missing on the driving runner, only for it come off the glass at the right spot for Davis to do a SportsCenter highlight dunk?

[monosylab1k]

I heard on The Ticket this morning that after the Baron Davis foul, excuse me, steal on Harris and then the Dirk foul after that in the 4th, you could read Baron's lips as he said "They're soft, they don't want it". I can't say I completely disagree.

It doesn't apply to everyone on the team though, so maybe Baron could have just said "He's soft, he doesn't want it" and pointed right at #41. Dirk really disappointed me last night. Not even his bad shooting night, those happen, and at least he got to the foul line. It was just his entire demeanor and really really shitty defense that pissed me off most.

[Findog]

Dirk really disappointed me last night. Not even his bad shooting night, those happen, and at least he got to the foul line. It was just his entire demeanor and really really shitty defense that pissed me off most.

More than anything I want to see anger from him when they play the Warriors. Getting a Flagrant Two isn't useful or anything, but some hard fouls, knocking guys to the floor, physically using our size against them. You won't win a track meet with those guys, they won't win a rugby match with you.

[fitzgerald]

I told myself I wasn't going to watch this game but did. I should have skipped it. Avery is to blame. Instead of slowing down the game they try to run with them!!! Makes no sense. Why play to their strengths? This game told me all I needed to know. We have no coaching and will fail again.

[Findog]

I told myself I wasn't going to watch this game but did. I should have skipped it. Avery is to blame. Instead of slowing down the game they try to run with them!!! Makes no sense. Why play to their strengths? This game told me all I needed to know. We have no coaching and will fail again.

We ran with them instead of slowing it to a halfcourt game and we won. We had better success against that physical zone, seems like we made more of a concerted effort to drive the lane and get to the line, and a lot of the jumpers were open looks that we normally bag. I think it's a matter of expectations: given our history with this team, and the game being in Oakland, why were we supposed to blow them out, again?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Hey, a win is a win.

[Shank]

What's also nuts is that GS will go on to shit the bed against every other team in the league. It's only when they play Dallas that they play out of their minds. You know, Baron Davis could break both legs yet manage to make it back for the next Mavs game to score 40 before continuing his rehab.

They seem to be pretty high over last night's "moral" victory, but need to check the W/L and see that 0-5 staring as their asses.

[Findog]

They seem to be pretty high over last night's "moral" victory, but need to check the W/L and see that 0-5 staring as their asses.

Well, Dallas, Phoenix, San Antonio, Houston, Utah and Denver are locks for the playoffs. Seattle, Minnesota and Sacramento are locks for the lottery.

Memphis, Portland and the Clippers I can see surprising and making a run at the lower two seeds, but they're probably lottery-bound as well. That leaves NOLA, the Lakers and Golden State playing musical chairs for two spots. I guess the Lakers and the Hornets are my two mistresses this year.

[fitzgerald]

We ran with them instead of slowing it to a halfcourt game and we won. We had better success against that physical zone, seems like we made more of a concerted effort to drive the lane and get to the line, and a lot of the jumpers were open looks that we normally bag. I think it's a matter of expectations: given our history with this team, and the game being in Oakland, why were we supposed to blow them out, again?


I never said we should have blown them out. I want us to dictate the game and force them to play different. Good defensive teams force you to play at their pace. We don't do that. We gave up 115 points. That is not acceptable. Avery doesn't know how to do adjust or these players just can't do what he wants. Why is it that Phoenix and GS can't play their pace against the Spurs but can against the Mavs? That is what I have a problem with.

[Findog]

We gave up 115 points. That is not acceptable.

They gave up 120 points and lost. THAT is not acceptable.


Why is it that Phoenix and GS can't play their pace against the Spurs but can against the Mavs?

Tim Duncan. Dirk is what he is, he is a shooting guard in a four's body, he plays from the high post out. We don't get points consistently from our centers to punish that strategy. Until we can get points consistently down low, or we can swing a trade for a low-post back to the basket scorer, I think the best we can do is a makeshift approach with Bass and Juwan Howard, as well as Howard, Dirk and Harris driving to the basket to try and bust that zone and draw fouls. I saw a lot more of that last night than in the playoffs.

Golden State and Nellie have provided a blueprint for beating us, not every team is going to have the personnel to follow it, but we're going to be seeing this more and more. This isn't something that we're suited for and we've made moves and definitely made progress towards countering it. It's just going to take time. Also, you don't win or lose anything in November, Avery is going to try and mimic Pop's approach and hold minutes down and have this team peaking in April.

[SpursIndonesia]

Atleast your team managed to reduce the effect of last yr meltdown with this win, no matter how small the effect is. And if Avery is as good coach as advertised, a close win with bad defensive display is worth much more than a blow out win, simply because of having a reason to chew some of his players that sucked in this game.

[Walter Craparita]

I still can't believe some of the shots GS makes. That's what bugs me the most.

Exactly. Game after game in last years series I kept telling myself they can't keep making these ridiculous shots for a 7 game series but they did! Same thing again last night. Dallas-GS games are must watch.

[fitzgerald]

They gave up 120 points and lost. THAT is not acceptable.



Tim Duncan. Dirk is what he is, he is a shooting guard in a four's body, he plays from the high post out. We don't get points consistently from our centers to punish that strategy. Until we can get points consistently down low, or we can swing a trade for a low-post back to the basket scorer, I think the best we can do is a makeshift approach with Bass and Juwan Howard, as well as Howard, Dirk and Harris driving to the basket to try and bust that zone and draw fouls. I saw a lot more of that last night than in the playoffs.

Golden State and Nellie have provided a blueprint for beating us, not every team is going to have the personnel to follow it, but we're going to be seeing this more and more. This isn't something that we're suited for and we've made moves and definitely made progress towards countering it. It's just going to take time. Also, you don't win or lose anything in November, Avery is going to try and mimic Pop's approach and hold minutes down and have this team peaking in April.

I agree with Duncan being the difference but why are we trying to run with them. Why are we getting rebounds and trying to score quickly just like them? Why don't we just walk the ball up the court and slow it down. How many times did we turn it over trying to keep up with them? When the Spurs fall into the trap, Pop will call a timeout and jump their ass. Avery doesn't do that. He lets them continue. Is this really Avery's plan? Run with them?
I am telling you, this rookie coach is blowing our window to win a championship.

[clambake]

dirk needs therapy. he couldn't wait to pass off. he's scared to pull the trigger against GS. they are all in his head. i don't think he can shake it off.

[Reggie Miller]

They gave up 120 points and lost. THAT is not acceptable.



Tim Duncan. Dirk is what he is, he is a shooting guard in a four's body, he plays from the high post out. We don't get points consistently from our centers to punish that strategy. Until we can get points consistently down low, or we can swing a trade for a low-post back to the basket scorer, I think the best we can do is a makeshift approach with Bass and Juwan Howard, as well as Howard, Dirk and Harris driving to the basket to try and bust that zone and draw fouls. I saw a lot more of that last night than in the playoffs.

Golden State and Nellie have provided a blueprint for beating us, not every team is going to have the personnel to follow it, but we're going to be seeing this more and more. This isn't something that we're suited for and we've made moves and definitely made progress towards countering it. It's just going to take time. Also, you don't win or lose anything in November, Avery is going to try and mimic Pop's approach and hold minutes down and have this team peaking in April.

Yep. Don't forget that GS also has to play exceptionally well to beat you. They have an average shooting night, and the Mavericks will beat them the majority of the time.

Penetration is the immediate solution. You can't get the big you need overnight, but driving to the basket more will create some of the same pressure and keep defenders honest.

[monosylab1k]

dirk needs therapy. he couldn't wait to pass off. he's scared to pull the trigger against GS. they are all in his head. i don't think he can shake it off.
there were a few times where passing was the right decision, but there were other times where he definitely looked like he had no interest whatsoever in putting this team on his shoulders and was content letting jason terry do the heavy lifting.

[hater]

Dallas players + coach and owner were all disconvoluted last night, vs a team that will not even make the playoffs.

LMAO

[Findog]

there were a few times where passing was the right decision, but there were other times where he definitely looked like he had no interest whatsoever in putting this team on his shoulders and was content letting jason terry do the heavy lifting.

It seems like Nellie's defensive strategy against us is to sell out against Dirk, I guess it's an ego thing that he can create a player and then destroy him. It would help though if Dirk could get a few foul calls when they slap, kick and hack him once he recieves the ball on the high post or out on the elbow. Dirk hasn't been nearly as assertive as he needs to be against these guys, but when he gets that much focus, his teammates need to slash and drive the lane and work to free themselves for open looks. That's partly on Dirk if he doesn't pass well out of double and triple teams, partly on his teammates if they're not doing a good job of freeing themselves. Again, a bit of progress in this area last night.

[Findog]

Why are we getting rebounds and trying to score quickly just like them? Why don't we just walk the ball up the court and slow it down. How many times did we turn it over trying to keep up with them?

Because the Warriors like to cheat back on outlet passes and jump the passing lines in transition. They were pushing the ball because there were easy basket opportunities.

Part of Nellie's schtick is to act like he doesn't care about defense, but he definitely teaches it.


I am telling you, this rookie coach is blowing our window to win a championship

Avery isn't a rookie-year coach and you know it.

[clambake]

Avery isn't a rookie-year coach and you know it.
true, but nellie owns the student. that win sure looked like a future loss.

[fitzgerald]

Avery is new to coaching. He hasn't put in the time to be considered a veteran. How much time will Cuban give Avery to get it figured out? Dirk is at his prime. If the Mavs flame out three years in a row, would you guys consider the idea he isn't cutting it? Losing in the finals after being up 2-0 and then losing in the first round after going 67-15? Do you guys think things would have been different if we had a more experienced coach? I wonder.

[Shank]

What the fuck?

[stretch]

Avery is new to coaching. He hasn't put in the time to be considered a veteran. How much time will Cuban give Avery to get it figured out? Dirk is at his prime. If the Mavs flame out three years in a row, would you guys consider the idea he isn't cutting it? Losing in the finals after being up 2-0 and then losing in the first round after going 67-15? Do you guys think things would have been different if we had a more experienced coach? I wonder.
Are you retarded? What coach would we get? Avery is one of the best in the business.

[monosylab1k]

Avery is new to coaching. He hasn't put in the time to be considered a veteran. How much time will Cuban give Avery to get it figured out? Dirk is at his prime. If the Mavs flame out three years in a row, would you guys consider the idea he isn't cutting it? Losing in the finals after being up 2-0 and then losing in the first round after going 67-15? Do you guys think things would have been different if we had a more experienced coach? I wonder.
I love Avery and I don't want another coach, but I definitely see contradictions among Mavs "apologists" about Avery. I don't have a better word, but the "Mavs apologists" talk out of both sides of their mouth all the time.

I heard it a few months ago where, before the GS fiasco it was "67 wins don't mean anything, it's all about the playoffs" and then immediately afterwards with talk of blowing up the team you got "Dude we won 67 games, we're doing something right!"

With Avery you get "he's a young guy who's still developing, give him time!" while simultaneously hearing "this is guy is experienced enough to lead this team to a championship".

I'm still not 100% sold on Avery, but I like the majority of what he's done and definitely hope he takes the next step. IMO he's good but still a second-tier coach in this league.

[stretch]

IMO he's good but still a second-tier coach in this league.
Aside from Pop, who is just flat out better than Avery?

[monosylab1k]

Aside from Pop, who is just flat out better than Avery?
Pat Riley & Don Nelson coached circles around him, for starters.

[monosylab1k]

I'd put Jerry Sloan ahead of Avery. Maybe Rick Carlisle. Also George Karl, although alot of people would dispute that one with me.

I'd say Avery is on par with Nate McMillan, Scott Skiles, Lawrence Frank, etc, as a young coach with tons of potential but haven't quite put it all together yet.

I personally wouldn't put Phil Jackson ahead of him, but everyone else would.

[monosylab1k]

Let's not forget that Avery inherited a championship ready team. How would he look as a HC if he started off with the Bucks or the Blazers?

I love Avery but he's not an elite coach yet.

[Shank]

Rick Carlisle is unemployed.

And Nelly wouldn't have the Mavs where they are right now with his BS "underdog" mentality. Avery has toughened this team up and has them in the right mindset. Changing that alone has him at an advantage over Nelson. We'd still be dealing with the same old BS if he were still running things.

Avery is trying to get himself and his team on the same level of consistency as Popovich. I'd say that's a pretty good goal to aim for.

[stretch]

I'd put Jerry Sloan ahead of Avery. Maybe Rick Carlisle. Also George Karl, although alot of people would dispute that one with me.

I'd say Avery is on par with Nate McMillan, Scott Skiles, Lawrence Frank, etc, as a young coach with tons of potential but haven't quite put it all together yet.

I personally wouldn't put Phil Jackson ahead of him, but everyone else would.
Rick Carlisle???

And Avery IMO is definitely better than McMillan, Skiles, and Frank, and on par with Karl and Sloan. Once he gets 20 years under his belt like those two, hes going to be absolutely incredible.

I'd say there is Pop. Then Avery, Nellie, Karl, and Sloan. Then everyone else (im too lazy to rank them).

[Shank]

Let's not forget that Avery inherited a championship ready team. How would he look as a HC if he started off with the Bucks or the Blazers?

I love Avery but he's not an elite coach yet.

Maybe so, but he got his team past the Spurs and Suns in a vicious WC 2 years ago and utilitized Dirk well enough to get him the MVP last year. Even in Nelson's happy, fun-run-and-gun system, neither of those would have been possible.

[monosylab1k]

Rick Carlisle is unemployed.
So is Larry Brown. You wanna put Avery ahead of him?

[Findog]

Let's not forget that Avery inherited a championship ready team. How would he look as a HC if he started off with the Bucks or the Blazers?

I love Avery but he's not an elite coach yet.

I don't think he's necessarily a bad coach either. He was definitely outcoached by Riley, but unless your last name is Popovich or Jackson, that's nothing new. As for Nellie, I think a far bigger factor than any failings on Avery's part (and yes, there were a few tactical mistakes) was his very thorough understanding of our personnel.

He's got his strengths and his weaknesses.

[monosylab1k]

Rick Carlisle???

And Avery IMO is definitely better than McMillan, Skiles, and Frank, and on par with Karl and Sloan.
Give McMillan, Skiles, Frank, Carlisle a championship ready team in their first year of coaching and you just might have a different opinion of them.

I'm not trying to knock Avery, but he's just not a top level coach yet. in my opinion.

[fitzgerald]

Are you retarded? What coach would we get? Avery is one of the best in the business.

You are retarded for thinking he is a top coach. I am not the only one who suspects some of the things Avery is doing. He is an up and coming young coach who inherited a talented team. Look at what has happened the last two years. We have just set the WORST collapse record in the history of the NBA. We thought the collapse the previous year was bad. Last year was much worse. Just think, whenever people talk about top seeds falling to lower seeds, there will never be one to top last year. EVER!!!!!! That is unforgiveable.

[Findog]

I heard it a few months ago where, before the GS fiasco it was "67 wins don't mean anything, it's all about the playoffs" and then immediately afterwards with talk of blowing up the team you got "Dude we won 67 games, we're doing something right!"

I don't necessarily see a contradiction. If anything, that seems to be nothing more than two opposing schools of thought. Here's my attempt at synthesis:

67 wins means you're an elite team. Losing in the first round of the playoffs to a good, but not great, Warrior team, means you have flaws that were exposed in the worst way. Because of the personnel and the matchups, Dallas really has to bring their A game to beat GS, whereas against other teams at the same level like New Orleans, they can play a mediocre game and still coast to victory. You win that many games, it creates reasonable expectations that a title is within reach. Let's be reasonable: the Warriors are not the 86 Celtics, but they have a good amount of talent and they play an unusual style that hits us at our Achilles heel. I think we lose this game last year, but we pulled it out last night. And other teams are going to run this blueprint at us, so we're going to keep seeing it. Only way to get better is to constantly train against it.


With Avery you get "he's a young guy who's still developing, give him time!" while simultaneously hearing "this is guy is experienced enough to lead this team to a championship"

I've personally never heard anyone say Avery is "experienced" enough to coach this team to a title, just that he's good enough. How many Spurs fans here claimed he outcoached Pop and how many Mavs fans are calling him a troglydyte after the past two series? It's clear that Cuban has put his eggs in the Avery/Dirk basket for now, and the only thing that could make him reconsider is another spectacular playoff flameout.

[Findog]

Just think, whenever people talk about top seeds falling to lower seeds, there will never be one to top last year. EVER!!!!!! That is unforgiveable.

Then get the fuck off the wagon and don't come back. You stick with your team through thick and thin. You don't gloss over failings and hold back fair criticism, but you don't refuse to recognize strengths as well. Avery's a good coach, nothing more, nothing less.

[ThomasGranger]

I see Avery as more of a player's coach than a strategist, but he seems to be watching Pop and learning from him. Bringing Terry off the bench, for example, reminds me a lot of Pop's decision to do the same with Manu.

But, if the Mavs fall short of expectations yet again it will be hard for him to maintain the trust of his players and his greatest strength as a coach (his ability to motivate them) will be severely compromised. Anything short of a WCF or Finals victory and Cuban will probably start searching for a replacement.

[Reggie Miller]

Speaking purely as a Pacers' fan, I wouldn't want Brown or Carlisle. They are better tacticians than Avery, but they lose a team after 2-3 years with their attitude and inflexibility. If I were running a crap team and wanted to make it respectable, I bring in Brown or Carlisle for 3-4 years. I wouldn't pin any championship hopes on either.

[stretch]

Give McMillan, Skiles, Frank, Carlisle a championship ready team in their first year of coaching and you just might have a different opinion of them.

I'm not trying to knock Avery, but he's just not a top level coach yet. in my opinion.
Even though he inherited a solid team, he completely changed the team as well. Nelly had a run-and-gun, no defense, no rebounding style pouned into everyones heads when Avery took over. Avery changed all of those habits and turned the team into a half-court offense that takes smart shots and exploits mis-matches. And now the team is consistently at the top of the defensive and rebounding rankings. Plus, look at how many players remain from the team Nelly built... ONE. Thats Dirk. Everyone else on this team has been either Donnie, Mark, or Avery, and Avery has been the one working at developing guys like Howard and Harris (not to mention how Nelly totally fucked Harris' psyche up by benching him for no reason after starting him for a month.) Sure Harris wasn't always the most mature player on the court, but thats expected of rookies, and thats how you develop them... not by just benching them and never playing them.

[stretch]

You are retarded for thinking he is a top coach. I am not the only one who suspects some of the things Avery is doing. He is an up and coming young coach who inherited a talented team. Look at what has happened the last two years. We have just set the WORST collapse record in the history of the NBA. We thought the collapse the previous year was bad. Last year was much worse. Just think, whenever people talk about top seeds falling to lower seeds, there will never be one to top last year. EVER!!!!!! That is unforgiveable.
Why don't you name all these great coaches that are absolutely hands down better than Avery, aside from Pop? Quit bitching like a little fuckstick and just answer the questions and give some fucking reasoning.

[fitzgerald]

Why don't you name all these great coaches that are absolutely hands down better than Avery, aside from Pop? Quit bitching like a little fuckstick and just answer the questions and give some fucking reasoning.


Larry Brown for one dickhead! Or course Phil, Sloan, Riley. We have the talent is all I am saying. We need adjustments in critical times. We are not doing that. There is no doubt I am rooting for them. I just don't have much faith in Avery. So all you Avery homers can suck it. Facts are he has a great team that has squandered two opportunites back to back. How much time are we going to give him. This year has to be his last shot.

[Findog]

Facts are he has a great team that has squandered two opportunites back to back.

We couldn't beat the Warriors last year, how were we going to beat San Antonio?

[fitzgerald]

We couldn't beat the Warriors last year, how were we going to beat San Antonio?


That is the killer and most frustrating part. We do have the talent to beat the Spurs. We did it the year before. We no longer fear them. We had a mental block against them for years and have overcome that. I know there a lot of Spurs fans that did not want to play us. Our only obstacle is for Avery to figure out how to stop these run-and-gun teams. GS and Phoenix are the two teams that can get in the way.

[stretch]

Larry Brown for one dickhead! Or course Phil, Sloan, Riley. We have the talent is all I am saying. We need adjustments in critical times. We are not doing that. There is no doubt I am rooting for them. I just don't have much faith in Avery. So all you Avery homers can suck it. Facts are he has a great team that has squandered two opportunites back to back. How much time are we going to give him. This year has to be his last shot.
Larry Brown isn't coaching, fucklick. He's retired. That has already been brought out in this thread, but you obviously are too fucking stupid to remember, arent you?

[fitzgerald]

Whatever. Enough with insults. You asked for coaches that were better. I gave you one. If Mavs fail again I think Cuban should call him up.

[stretch]

Whatever. Enough with insults. You asked for coaches that were better. I gave you one. If Mavs fail again I think Cuban should call him up.
You can dish em, but cant take em, eh? lol.

I did ask for better coaches. Not for coaches in retirement.

[Shank]

Red Auerbach.

[Findog]

Red Auerbach.

Gene Hackman

[fitzgerald]

You can dish em, but cant take em, eh? lol.

I did ask for better coaches. Not for coaches in retirement.

Larry Brown has retired before. Just an option just in case. You guys can't tell me you are willing to give Avery 5+ years to figure it out. Our window is now. I still remember how long it took for the Mavs to complete. (with Tarpley, Aguire and etc). Then look how long it was till we competed again. I don't want to go back to those days. Time is ticking..........

[Findog]

That is the killer and most frustrating part. We do have the talent to beat the Spurs. We did it the year before. We no longer fear them. We had a mental block against them for years and have overcome that. I know there a lot of Spurs fans that did not want to play us.

We would not have beaten San Antonio last year because Diop can't consistently play 30+ mpg and we would need Dampier to pick up some of the slack. Not to mention that we peaked around the All-Star break, while San Antonio didn't go all out until the right time. As for talent, matchups, and whatever, it's really a 50/50 proposition.


Our only obstacle is for Avery to figure out how to stop these run-and-gun teams. GS and Phoenix are the two teams that can get in the way

I think it's unrealistic to expect us to blowout teams like the Warriors right now. We probably lose this game last year. Brandon Bass, while he still has some holes to his game and shows his inexperience at times, is exactly the kind of low-post presence we were missing last year. Our guys pressed a little hard and played tentative at times, but they hung in there and showed tenacity, which is also a first against this team.

[Dalhoop]

I think the Spurs would have been a seven game series and it really doesn't matter how long Diop playes, Duncan will still get his 50-30 against (You know what I mean). We have the personal to get the Spurs out of their comfert zone, just like the GS does with us.

As for the game, we didn't run with the Warriors. I saw that posted several time, and it was not the case, the Mavs ran maybe 5-6 times the whole game (two were harris ofensive fouls). More the vast majority of the game the Mavs were running half court sets and using the shot clock.

You can look at the score and think that we ran with them, but it wasn't the case, the score was high because the shooting %. I do think that Bass will continue to improve and be a valued part of the team later in the year against these smalled teams.

[monosylab1k]

Larry Brown isn't so far removed from the game that it's ridiculous to suggest he's a better coach than Avery even now. Throw enough money at him and he'd come back.

[Spawn]

They gave up 120 points and lost. THAT is not acceptable.



Tim Duncan. Dirk is what he is, he is a shooting guard in a four's body, he plays from the high post out. We don't get points consistently from our centers to punish that strategy. Until we can get points consistently down low, or we can swing a trade for a low-post back to the basket scorer, I think the best we can do is a makeshift approach with Bass and Juwan Howard, as well as Howard, Dirk and Harris driving to the basket to try and bust that zone and draw fouls. I saw a lot more of that last night than in the playoffs.

Golden State and Nellie have provided a blueprint for beating us, not every team is going to have the personnel to follow it, but we're going to be seeing this more and more. This isn't something that we're suited for and we've made moves and definitely made progress towards countering it. It's just going to take time. Also, you don't win or lose anything in November, Avery is going to try and mimic Pop's approach and hold minutes down and have this team peaking in April.

A blueprint? Unless the Warriors plan on lending out Baron Davis to other teams night after night, then other teams can't duplicate the success the Warriors have on the Mavs. Make no mistake, it is Davis that makes the Warriors who they are, without him, they go to shit, which is why with the type of game Davis had last night the Mavs should be happy they won.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

I LOVED what I saw last night from these guys! They showed some serious championship toughness and poise. Even Dirk hit some big shots despite looking confused out there. This team is so heading into the right direction to be EVEN BETTER pre 2006 NBA Finals! The better thing is they have room for improvment and realize these demons arent going away unless they win the championship! GOD I LOVE THESE GUYS! LETS GO MAVS! LETS GO MAVS! LETS GO MAVS! :clap :clap :clap

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Some of you Mav fans are pretty alright.

It's nice to see the respect you guys have for TD.


You guys deserve your own forum on here.