Lakers vs. Spurs, version 0.4-LA Times [Archive]

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duncan228

11-13-2007, 08:23 AM

Sorry guys.
It's a tough game to have to remember.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/printedition/la-sp-spurs13nov13,1,2958682.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-sports

Lakers vs. Spurs, version 0.4

The teams have changed (well, one has) since that indelible 2004 playoff game. Now Fisher returns as a Laker to the site of his greatest moment.

By Mike Bresnahan, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

It's only an early-season game, and yet, it's also a brief reminder of history.

The Lakers and San Antonio Spurs meet tonight in San Antonio, with the Spurs off to a typically solid start, the Lakers trying to keep their heads above .500, and visions of 0.4 seconds built into the backdrop as Derek Fisher returns to San Antonio as a Laker for the first time since his famous heave in the 2004 Western Conference semifinals.

The Spurs and Lakers used to be combatants deep in the playoffs each year, but now they're on opposite ends of the postseason seedings, with the Spurs trying to win their fifth championship in the last 10 seasons and the Lakers simply trying to get past the first round.

The Spurs' cast of characters is familiar: Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are the franchise favorites, Bruce Bowen is the lockdown defender once referred to as "Edward Scissorhands" by Lakers Coach Phil Jackson for his aggressive hands-on play, and Gregg Popovich is the gruff coach who compared the Lakers' breakup in 2004 to the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

The current crop of Lakers? They'll have to hear from Jackson, Fisher and Kobe Bryant about the five times the Lakers and Spurs met in the playoffs from 1999 to 2004. The Lakers won three times -- twice on the way to championships in 2001 and 2002 and again on the way to a Finals appearance in 2004.

Even in down years -- as in, first-round playoff exits -- the Lakers are known to bring an extra zing to their games at AT&T Center, including a 98-93 victory in January that put them at 26-13, the high point of a 2006-07 season that became undone by injuries and a schedule back-loaded with road games.

"I know there'll be some extra salt in the air because of the two teams," Fisher said.

The only salt was in the Spurs' wounds the last time the Lakers were there with Fisher. His fade-away 18-footer with 0.4 seconds left sent the Lakers to a stunning 74-73 victory over the Spurs in Game 5 of the 2004 West semifinals.

It became indelibly inked in Lakers lore, as foam "Fish Heads" were joyously snapped up by fans and "0.4" T-shirts quickly became standards at Staples Center kiosks.

The play also marked the last great stand of the Bryant-Shaquille O'Neal empire.

Fisher, understandably, remembers the finer parts of his shot.

"I just think of it being probably the greatest example in my lifetime of playing until the clock says zero, which is something that coaches in high school and grade school and boys' clubs and girls' clubs all around America try to teach kids -- to play until the end, and don't give up," Fisher said.

"I don't really get overly excited about it or my chest doesn't start to pump up when I think about it in terms of me doing something great. I kind of more think of it just as a great moment, kind of an example of never quitting or believing that you lost until the game is over."

It sure looked over for the Lakers after Duncan staggered across the top of the key and ballooned a shot that went in with 0.9 seconds left, giving the Spurs a 73-72 lead and a probable 3-2 series lead.

Jackson remembered feeling undeterred.

"They had made some impossible shots," he said. "I kept telling the team, 'We're going to find a way to win this game. This is the one we've got to win.' "

Then it happened.

The Lakers called a timeout, and then another timeout after seeing how the Spurs would defend the inbounds pass. Then the Spurs called a timeout.

"On the third timeout, we were just [thinking] they were going to follow Kobe," Jackson said. "We've got to find the right person and [Gary] Payton did, and that was the open guy in that situation."

The Spurs immediately filed a protest with the league, saying the clock started too late and Fisher's shot shouldn't have counted, but the call was upheld.

After the series ended with a Lakers victory in Game 6 in Los Angeles, even Popovich admitted the shot haunted him.

"I think about it 97 times a day," he said at the time. "If I said I didn't think about it, I'd be lying."

Fisher, 33, left the Lakers in July 2004 to sign a free-agent contract with Golden State and was traded to Utah before the 2006-07 season. He re-signed with the Lakers in July for three years and is averaging 14 points and 3.8 assists in five games this season.

The 0.4 moment won't be lost on him, ever, although he wished one other thing.

"In all probability, we were supposed to lose that game," he said, smiling. "The only thing that has spoiled it for me over the years is the fact that we didn't go on to win the title. That would have made it even more special."

288pipi

11-13-2007, 09:15 AM

fisher is old ,0.4 second was really a miracle,but it has past

tomorrow we can win easily.i believe

go spusr go!!

TDMVPDPOY

11-13-2007, 09:31 AM

they can dwell on the pass, while we are winning now and into the future

JBIIRockets

11-13-2007, 09:37 AM

Is this shot really a heartbreaker for Spurs fans? I mean, this particular season was sandwiched by 2 championship seasons.

It would be different if the Spurs had never won one before.

vanvannen

11-13-2007, 09:44 AM

I remember being torn apart for several days after that. I think it was both the manner in which the game was lost, and the fact that it was actually impossible to make that shot in 0,4 seconds.
It was obviously an egg laid by the refs, but that is what bball is about. Some you win, some you lose.

jman3000

11-13-2007, 09:44 AM

Is this shot really a heartbreaker for Spurs fans? I mean, this particular season was sandwiched by 2 championship seasons.

It would be different if the Spurs had never won one before.

there were many things that made it crappy...

the shot tim had hit not even a second before
the celebration afterwards
the letdown
the fact that it was the lakers.

many more but i gots to go.

duncan228

11-13-2007, 09:55 AM

It was Duncan's shot that made it hardest for me.
The loss I could take.
Fisher defying physics, the ref's letting him I could take.

But Duncan's shot was so incredible and it got lost.

That shot still makes his top ten lists when NBA.com puts together his highlight reels.

spurscenter

11-13-2007, 10:00 AM

All fisher talks about is the 0.4 shot

They didnt even win the championship that year! LOL

spursparker9

11-13-2007, 10:07 AM

that year the pistons were really good. i think there is a good chance that they will beat us even if we advance to the finals

J.T.

11-13-2007, 10:25 AM

The .4 shot is going to be forever soiled by the Pistons winning the title that year. Duncan has 4 to Kobe's 3 now and Kobe's meltdown broke up the only team that was consistently able to beat the Spurs in the playoffs.

jmard5

11-13-2007, 10:25 AM

I saw that game on TV... and had to endure friendly banters in the office all week long since they know I am a Spurs fan.

maxpower

11-13-2007, 10:26 AM

All fisher talks about is the 0.4 shot

They didnt even win the championship that year! LOL

+1

Budkin

11-13-2007, 10:28 AM

One of the most painful Spurs memories ever. I was so fucking high after Duncan hit that shot over Shaq that I just could not accept that the 0.4 shot went in. What was worse was that the replays clearly showed the clock started late and that it shouldn't have counted. I knew we were toast in game 6.

Walter Craparita

11-13-2007, 10:33 AM

Best shot I have ever seen...

Followed by the worst shot I have ever seen.

easjer

11-13-2007, 10:34 AM

Is this shot really a heartbreaker for Spurs fans? I mean, this particular season was sandwiched by 2 championship seasons.

It would be different if the Spurs had never won one before.

Having the 2005 championship really softened the blow, but even now, I can barely watch a replay of that. I threw up when it happened. The roller coaster of emotion, and how badly I wanted to win that game, and the amazing shot that Tim hit just before and KNOWING we couldn't lose because no one could hit a shoot with .4 seconds left - yeah. That was a heartbreaker.

It is hard to remember we lost another game to end the series (so in that sense, I sympathize with Suns fans).

urunobili

11-13-2007, 10:38 AM

:depressed

TwoHandJam

11-13-2007, 10:40 AM

0.4 = the last vestige of a dying franchise. Sure, it hurt to see such a clear reffing debacle upheld but it was worth it to see those Lakers torn to shreds by the Pistons. We probably dodged a bullet as I feel the Pistons could have beaten us that year and I'd rather lose in the semis than the finals. Somehow, seeing Malone and Payton come up empty in their last gasp at a ring made everything better once again.

J.T.

11-13-2007, 10:43 AM

Somehow, seeing Malone and Payton come up empty in their last gasp at a ring made everything better once again.

I take it you did not watch the rest of the 2006 playoffs following the Spurs' elimination?

JBIIRockets

11-13-2007, 10:46 AM

The Spurs would have beat the Lakers in 04 if Popovich didn't play Rasho or Turkoglu. Those two players did more damage to the Spurs than the Lakers did. I guess the Spurs didn't have any other options at that time though.

JBIIRockets

11-13-2007, 10:47 AM

I take it you did not watch the rest of the 2006 playoffs following the Spurs' elimination?

and especially Game 3 of that years Finals. :p:

easjer

11-13-2007, 11:00 AM

Cry Havoc

11-13-2007, 11:30 AM

This was hard for me to accept, but sadly, it wasn't the low point for me as a fan.

That would be the infamous Steve Bartman play that sunk the Chicago Cubs in the 2003 NLCS playoffs.

By far though, those two moments are the absolute worst I have ever felt as a fan. Both made me absolutely sick. It took about a month for things to return to normal after each event.

:depressed

Dying Franchise!!!!!!!

This is the LAKERS Fool!!!!

14 Titles to your 3 1/2

Have fun with that 7-8 seed/first round exit this year. And please, keep clinging to the past. It's quite humorous.

MaNuMaNiAc

11-13-2007, 12:58 PM

Dying Franchise!!!!!!!

This is the LAKERS Fool!!!!

14 Titles to your 3 1/2
Christ! when are the Laker fans going to accept the fact that neither the Showtime lakers nor Shaq's lakers are still playing!!

Face it! Your Lakers are now the Kobe lakers. Your franchise is a shadow of its former glory.

Walter Craparita

11-13-2007, 01:05 PM

Lakers sat out in 99' ?

Unless Phil sat out in 99' since that year "didn't count"...he should stfu.

FromWayDowntown

11-13-2007, 01:14 PM

I think the thing that was most disheartening to me about .4 was the fact that it (a lot like Manu's foul against the Mavs in 2006) spoiled a great comeback by the Spurs.

In Game 5 in 2004, the Spurs got out to a slow start and were behind by 6 after a quarter and were down 7 at the half. They fell further behind in the 3rd quarter and were down 16 (61-45) at about the 4 minute mark of that 3rd quarter. They ended the 3rd on an 8-1 run, but were still down 9 at the end of 3 quarters. They just kept fighting through the 4th, outscoring LA 20-10 through the first 11:59.6 of the quarter. Fisher's turnabout was the only thing that spoiled that comeback.

I'll also always remember that Luke Walton hit a crazy 3 late in the first half of that game at a point when the Spurs had gotten close after being down double-digits. IIRC, it was the only shot Walton hit in the entire series, but it kept the Spurs from being that much closer at the half and made Duncan's shot only a lead-changer.

I suppose the fact that the Spurs had such a slow start after dropping 2 games (and losing them relatively badly in LA) had to rally from such a big deficit is probably reason enough for them to have lost the game; but it just seemed to be such a perfect mirror image of what had happened in 2002 in particular, when the Lakers would play from behind until the mid-3rd or so and then just overpower the Spurs in the 4th. The turnabout seemed to be just so sweet. To see it happen, only to have it ripped away in such a once-in-a-lifetime moment was maddening. To lose to LA, in that way, was all the worse.

I think the assumption that the Spurs would have beaten Detroit in the Finals is probably unfounded; I do think the Spurs were better built to deal with the Pistons in some ways, but I'm not sure that guys like Hedo Turkoglu, Jason Hart, and Charlie Ward were going to be very helpful in that regard.

I think the passage of time has healed the wounds of .4 for me. Seeing two more titles and knowing that all that's kept the Spurs from likely having at least 1 more is the combination of Fisher's ridiculous shot and Manu's ridiculous foul is some solace for me. It means, truly, that I've been witness to at least 1 of the greatest plays in the history of the NBA; I love the Spurs, but I pay to see the amazing things that all NBA players can do and with .4, I did see one of the most amazing plays ever.

MaNuMaNiAc

11-13-2007, 01:20 PM

I would hope Spurs fans are over the whole 0.4 thing. After 2 championships to "sooth the pain" 0.4 should only be a distant memory. I know it is for me

Reggie Miller

11-13-2007, 01:29 PM

I would rather see the Spurs 4-0 in the Finals than 4-1. I'm not so sure anyone was beating the Pistons that year. The Pacers played Detroit as well as humanly possible, and Indy still couldn't handle the Pistons. Lakers' apologists can whine about Malone all they want; Malone doesn't represent the difference in those blowouts in the 2004 Finals. It was "their year," I guess.

nfg3

11-13-2007, 01:31 PM

That was a tough loss for me, too. I thought it was over after TD hit his shot but that's BB. I felt that the clock started late but what's done is done. Anyway that shot will never happen again. Now it's illegal. But that dosen't take away the disappointment I felt at the time. Though the Pistons were really rolling at the time and I think it would have been difficult to beat them that year.

Johnny RIngo

11-13-2007, 01:34 PM

MaNuMaNiAc

11-13-2007, 01:39 PM

I'm much more affected by Manu's stupid foul of 2006 than the 0.4 crap. To think that if Manu didn't have that brain fart, we would have won that series right then and there, not to mention probably kicked Miami's ass in the finals. Painful I tell you!

SA Gunslinger

11-13-2007, 02:27 PM

TD hit two crucial shots down the stretch. Of course he had the one over Shaq. But how about that double clutch banker a few minutes before that shot.

And Robert Horry bricked a wide open three pointer down the stretch.

Medvedenko

11-13-2007, 03:08 PM

Crazy game and series....and I still believe if Malone was healthy we would have at lesat went 7 games with the Pistons. Anyways, that's the past and it's great to hear about all of the posters thoughts and lamenttions regarding the infamous shot. Still, the Lakers are rebuilding and still a shadow of themselves....

MajicMan

11-13-2007, 04:20 PM

Christ! when are the Laker fans going to accept the fact that neither the Showtime lakers nor Shaq's lakers are still playing!!

Face it! Your Lakers are now the Kobe lakers. Your franchise is a shadow of its former glory.
Coming from the default champs. What was the head to head? That's right, Lakers win by a mile. Ego had a lot to do with our demise not the Spurs beating us. Shaq/Kobe Lakers own the Tim Duncan Spurs and that's the way it will go down in history.

E20

11-13-2007, 04:25 PM

http://sports.tom.com/img/assets/200405/fisher514_1084507724.jpg
Why is Rasho boxing out? If I were Rasho I would have gotten on Tim Duncan's shoulders and blocked that shit.

101A

11-13-2007, 04:33 PM

Coming from the default champs. What was the head to head? That's right, Lakers win by a mile. Ego had a lot to do with our demise not the Spurs beating us. Shaq/Kobe Lakers own the Tim Duncan Spurs and that's the way it will go down in history.3 years ago you are right - but it doesn't matter now.

4 (or 5 or 6) - 3 is the final scoreboard. History won't remember anything much more than that, and the Spurs have scoreboard.

Will history remember that Wallace's Pistons "owned" the Shaq/Kobe Lakers? No. Only Piston fans will long remember that.

Only Titles = Long Memory.

Spurs = Scoreboard

101A

11-13-2007, 04:34 PM

http://sports.tom.com/img/assets/200405/fisher514_1084507724.jpg
Why is Rasho boxing out? If I were Rasho I would have gotten on Tim Duncan's shoulders and blocked that shit.
MY EYES!!!

Dave McNulla

11-13-2007, 04:38 PM

Dying Franchise!!!!!!!

This is the LAKERS Fool!!!!

14 Titles to your 3 1/2flame bait. you should have counted the minneaoplis years too.

FromWayDowntown

11-13-2007, 04:43 PM

Coming from the default champs. What was the head to head? That's right, Lakers win by a mile. Ego had a lot to do with our demise not the Spurs beating us. Shaq/Kobe Lakers own the Tim Duncan Spurs and that's the way it will go down in history.

Shaq and Kobe won 3 of 5 playoff series against Duncan's Spurs -- that means that Duncan won 2 of 5; I'd hardly say that a difference of 1 in series wins is "domination" or "ownership."

Each team swept the other and each won a 6-game series. The sole difference is the Lakers' 5-game win in 2002 (with a note that David Robinson only played in 3 of those games) and that year, the Lakers won by 6, 10, 2, and 6. For a stretch of 5 playoff series between teams, that's pretty damned close.

All together, over the stretch of 1999-2004, the Lakers won 14 playoff games against the Spurs; the Spurs won 11 against the Lakers. Playing 3 games over .500 is, again, hardly domination. For instance, the Spurs were 13-10 against the Lakers during the regular season in that time frame -- I doubt you'd acknowledge that as any form of domination.

Amuseddaysleeper

11-13-2007, 04:58 PM

We could win the next 80 championships in a row and .4 would still kill me.

It mostly has to do with the shot Duncan hit, and the fact that had Fisher not hit the final shot, Duncan's shot could arguably be greater than even that of Horry's had the Spurs gone on to win the championship that year. (Though I'll probably still stick with Horry's shot, and yes, Duncan's shot would've been better than the memorial day miracle).

Manu's foul was incredibly frustrating, and still hurts to this day, but having your heart ripped out like the Fisher shot just left me speechless.

Game 6 really hurt too, as we were up by 10 at halftime, only to fall apart in the second half :depressed

Mitch Cumsteen

11-13-2007, 05:01 PM

SRJ

11-13-2007, 05:25 PM

flame bait. you should have counted the minneaoplis years too.

He did count the Minneapolis years. They've won five in Minneapolis, nine in LA.

Real Tomato Ketchup

11-13-2007, 05:51 PM

Amuseddaysleeper

11-13-2007, 05:56 PM

Duncan's shot was a wild chuck up that magically went in. He didn't even know the shot went in until his teammates started mugging him.

It was also the shot that probably would've gone on to win the series.

Elliott's shot was incredible, but the reality of the situation was that it helped us sweep an inexperienced Portland team as oppose to beating them in 5 or 6.

So yeah. considering the circumstances, I'd take Duncan's shot > Elliott's

FromWayDowntown

11-13-2007, 05:57 PM

The weird thing about the Spurs/Lakers rivalry is how few really good games there were between the teams. The 0.4 game being the obvious exception, but the overwhelming majority of the games between the two teams just weren't that compelling.

I can think of a few:

Game 2 of the 1999 WCSF went right down to the wire, with Rambis ultimately deciding against doubling Duncan on the game's crucial possession late;

Game 2 of the 2001 WCF was a tight game late -- the Lakers won it on a 13-5 run in the last half of the 4th quarter;

Games 1, 2, and 4 of the 2002 WCSF were tight games that went right to the wire (Game 1 was decided on a Kobe jumper in the last 30 seconds; Game 2 featured Antonio Daniels' fake timeout play as the Spurs eeked out a victory in LA; and Game 4 was Kobe hitting a shot in the last 10 seconds to win the game);

Game 4 of the 2003 WCSF was decided by Kobe free throws with about a minute to go and Game 5 of that series had the Lakers rallying from down 25 in the second half only to have Horry miss a three pointer with virtually no time left;

Game 5 of the 2004 WCSF is .4.

I don't know that any of those games (other than maybe .4) is remembered in most corners as one of the NBA greatest games, but there were a number of extremely close games over that stretch between two teams that were clearly the class of basketball in that time.

SpurOutofTownFan

11-13-2007, 07:30 PM

That shot was the biggest robbery of recent sports history. It's not possible to score like that. Kudos to Fisher who ran across the court into the locker room like a possessed person; had he stayed put, they would have probably reviewed the shot and challenged it.

Capt Bringdown

11-13-2007, 07:54 PM

That shot was the biggest robbery of recent sports history. It's not possible to score like that.

Yes, and it pains me to hear this shot referred to as a "miracle." It's not possible to catch, turn and shoot in less than half a second, people seem to forget that. We was robbed.

MaNuMaNiAc

11-13-2007, 08:10 PM

Coming from the default champs. What was the head to head? That's right, Lakers win by a mile. Ego had a lot to do with our demise not the Spurs beating us. Shaq/Kobe Lakers own the Tim Duncan Spurs and that's the way it will go down in history.you're right. The Shaq/Kobe lakers owned everybody... even themselves. Nobody is disputing what they did, but you people need to accept the fact that they no longer exist. Your lakers are nothing like that team and you know it

[email protected]

11-13-2007, 10:00 PM

you're right. The Shaq/Kobe lakers owned everybody... even themselves. Nobody is disputing what they did, but you people need to accept the fact that they no longer exist. Your lakers are nothing like that team and you know it
The spurs is leading the lakers :clap :clap
go spurs go :clap
love the spurs