Bonds Indicted

[FromWayDowntown]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/15/bonds.indicted.ap/index.html

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Barry Bonds was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction of justice charges, the culmination of a four-year federal investigation into whether he lied under oath to a grand jury looking into steroid use by elite athletes.

The indictment came three months after the 43-year-old Bonds passed Hank Aaron to become baseball's career home run leader. Bonds parted ways with the San Francisco Giants after the season.

While Bonds was chasing Aaron, a grand jury was working behind closed doors to put the finishing touchesthe long-rumored indictment.

[peewee's lovechild]

I just saw that right now on ESPN.

You beat me to the punch.

I wonder what's going to come out of all this.

[TheTruth]

Did someone flip?

[FromWayDowntown]

At this point, I can't imagine that Bonds can cop a plea without an absolute admission that he used performance enhancing substances -- particularly if the perjury charge is directly related to his testimony before the BALCO grand jury and not to some other collateral matter like a tax problem or something like that.

If Bonds fights the indictment and goes to trial, he faces a monumentally steep challenge -- as we saw with Michael Vick last summer, federal indictments tend to be winners for the government.

[TheTruth]

Yeah, it seems it is directly related to his Balco testimony. Sounds like he lied about knowingly taking steroids. Wonder what evidence they could have. Anderson must have flipped.

[FromWayDowntown]

Yeah, it seems it is directly related to his Balco testimony. Sounds like he lied about knowingly taking steroids. Wonder what evidence they could have. Anderson must have flipped.

That almost has to be it. I just quickly read the indictment and the perjury almost all has to do with statements made about Bonds' dealings with Anderson. Either they have a series of witnesses who know that Bonds was interacting with Anderson and that Bonds' testimony is a bunch of garbage, or Anderson will testify that Bonds' testimony is a bunch of garbage.

[Cry Havoc]

Wow.

[TheTruth]

Damn, Bonds is done. Too bad they couldn't have done this 3 years ago and saved us from the home run chase. Fucking cheater.

[peewee's lovechild]

Yeah, it seems it is directly related to his Balco testimony. Sounds like he lied about knowingly taking steroids. Wonder what evidence they could have. Anderson must have flipped.

Roger Cossack said on ESPN that he's been told that Anderson did not flip. It's some other evidence that may or may not be enough to get him.

[TheTruth]

If the Federal govt is indicting, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it'll be enough.

[peewee's lovechild]

Damn, Bonds is done. Too bad they couldn't have done this 3 years ago and saved us from the home run chase. Fucking cheater.

I don't understand all the hate.

He's not the only cheater. There have been several cheaters, for decades in baseball. I don't see why this guy is being made a martyr.

I don't give a shit about Bond's one way or another, but to make him the poster boy of steroids and cheating is pretty stupid. Especially when they're still busting people for juicing up.

It's happened in the past, it will continue to happen.

[peewee's lovechild]

If the Federal govt is indicting, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that it'll be enough.

Cossack said it could be "enough" circumstantial evidence to indict him, but not enough to convict him.

[TheTruth]

I don't understand all the hate.

He's not the only cheater. There have been several cheaters, for decades in baseball. I don't see why this guy is being made a martyr.

I don't give a shit about Bond's one way or another, but to make him the poster boy of steroids and cheating is pretty stupid. Especially when they're still busting people for juicing up.

It's happened in the past, it will continue to happen.
The all time home run king SHOULD be the poster boy for all that is wrong with steroids. It's not only the steroids. It's the fact that he's a terrible person who cheats on his wife, evades paying taxes, and is just an all around jackass. Find me someone else who does all that and I'll call him a jackass as well.

[peewee's lovechild]

The all time home run king SHOULD be the poster boy for all that is wrong with steroids. It's not only the steroids. It's the fact that he's a terrible person who cheats on his wife, evades paying taxes, and is just an all around jackass. Find me someone else who does all that and I'll call him a jackass as well.

Who the fuck cares about his personal life??

Why would you even factor that in?? That's some ridiculous thinking.

As for him being the poster child for steroids, what about everyone else?? McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Conseco, etc????

Everyone else is of the hook because they got the home run king??

Fuck that!!
That's some bullshit.

[FromWayDowntown]

Cossack said it could be "enough" circumstantial evidence to indict him, but not enough to convict him.

Circumstantial evidence is always a tricky thing, particularly where the party seeking a result has a heavy burden of proof, like in a criminal trial. The more circumstantial the proof, the less likely a conviction, I would think. It would surprise me that a federal grand jury would return an indictment based on mostly circumstantial proof, but I suppose that's possible. The burden for obtaining an indictment is decidely easier to overcome than the burden for obtaining a conviction.

[TheTruth]

No dude, everyone else is off the hook because they were smart enough to retire before they were caught. Palmeiro was absolutely fried when he was busted. Conseco is using his steroids use to benefit himself. McGwire isn't gonna get into the hall of fame on the first ballot because of his steroid use. Sosa was killed for using cork in his bat. Do you even follow baseball? Bonds isn't the only star to have been made an example of.

[TheTruth]

Who the fuck cares about his personal life??

Why would you even factor that in?? That's some ridiculous thinking.

I can't factor in how someone lives there life as to whether or not I'm gonna cheer for the guy. He's a douchbag, and I'm glad he's gonna get his.

[thispego]

and thats why baseball sucks. fuck bonds and let him be the example of what happens when you cheat in the major leagues.

[thispego]

and thats why baseball sucks. fuck bonds and let him be the example of what happens when you cheat in the major leagues.
well... one of many many reasons

[TheTruth]

Baseball is AMERICA'S pastime. Damn you Preggo!!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

No dude, everyone else is off the hook because they were smart enough to retire before they were caught. Palmeiro was absolutely fried when he was busted. Conseco is using his steroids use to benefit himself. McGwire isn't gonna get into the hall of fame on the first ballot because of his steroid use. Sosa was killed for using cork in his bat. Do you even follow baseball? Bonds isn't the only star to have been made an example of.

Sosa played baseball this year and people applauded his "comeback".

McGwire doesn't have any astericks, that I know of, and if he does get elected into the Hall of fame (which he probably will after a couple of years), where will you stand?

Palmeiro lied under oath, but he's not in jail.

Conseco is still in the limelight and making money off of all this.

Barry Bonds, on the other hand, might see the inside of a jail cell for quite a while.

Once again, why is this guy being made an example when there are many others.

And, as for you "they were smart enough to retire", that doesn't even hold any water because whatever Bonds did was before the new steroids policy so that shit doesn't even matter.

[peewee's lovechild]

Baseball is AMERICA'S pastime. Damn you Preggo!!!!

Football has taken over as America's sport.

[midgetonadonkey]

No dude, everyone else is off the hook because they were smart enough to retire before they were caught. Palmeiro was absolutely fried when he was busted. Conseco is using his steroids use to benefit himself. McGwire isn't gonna get into the hall of fame on the first ballot because of his steroid use. Sosa was killed for using cork in his bat. Do you even follow baseball? Bonds isn't the only star to have been made an example of.

Actually he doesn't. He says it's a boring sport yet he claims to be a die hard Yankee fan.

[Melmart1]

Actually he doesn't. He says it's a boring sport yet he claims to be a die hard Yankee fan.
I was about to say the same thing. :lol Sorry, peewee. I can't take your opinion of anything baseball-related very seriously when you thumb your nose down at it the way you do.

And nobody applauded Sosa's comeback. Most thought it was stupid and unnecessary, not the least of which is most Rangers fans.

[Spawn]

The all time home run king SHOULD be the poster boy for all that is wrong with steroids. It's not only the steroids. It's the fact that he's a terrible person who cheats on his wife, evades paying taxes, and is just an all around jackass. Find me someone else who does all that and I'll call him a jackass as well.

Oh please. Is that all you got that makes him such a terrible person? I would venture to say that the majority of the athletes in baseball have done these things, but Bonds is clearly the anti-christ. When the hell was he convicted of tax evasion?

[Kriz-Maxima]

Bonds its nothing more than a scapegoat. The league knew, the players knew and the ballclubs knew what was happening, but as long as the ball was going far off the field no one gave a shit. Now everybody washes their hands. As i said, scapegoat.

[peewee's lovechild]

I was about to say the same thing. :lol Sorry, peewee. I can't take your opinion of anything baseball-related very seriously when you thumb your nose down at it the way you do.

And nobody applauded Sosa's comeback. Most thought it was stupid and unnecessary, not the least of which is most Rangers fans.

You're going by what Midge is saying here.
He just hates that I'm a Yankee fan and he takes everything I say out of context.

It doesn't change my arguement.

[peewee's lovechild]

Bonds its nothing more than a scapegoat. The league knew, the players knew and the ballclubs knew what was happening, but as long as the ball was going far off the field no one gave a shit. Now everybody washes their hands. As i said, scapegoat.

That's what I've been saying.

But, all anybody counters with is "you're a Yankee fan", "you don't like baseball", "look at his personal life", "what about the kids", etc.

Bullshit.
All of it.

[Melmart1]

You're going by what Midge is saying here.
He just hates that I'm a Yankee fan and he takes everything I say out of context.

It doesn't change my arguement.
Well, let's take a look at your argument.

You argue Bonds is a scapegoat. On that, you are correct. Is it fair? Hell no.

You also say its bullshit and on that, you are NOT correct.

Yes, he isn't the only one who ever did anything illegal. However, what are we supposed to do -- nothing? Give everyone a pass until a certain time and THEN go after people? Or are we supposed to turn a blind eye because everyone who ever did it can't be indicted? So, if everyone who has ever commited murder or rape can't be indicted, does that mean we stop prosecuting altogther?

In something so widespread as this, examples must be made. It's the only way to implement change, and to make people think twice before they start using. Well, that and have a commissioner who isn't such a fuck-up might implement change, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

I would also like to point out that not everyone lied under oath regarding their steroid use like Bonds apparently did. Those who have should all be prosecuted, I don't care if they are saints, never cheated on their wives or are related to Jesus Christ.

[peewee's lovechild]

Well, let's take a look at your argument.

You argue Bonds is a scapegoat. On that, you are correct. Is it fair? Hell no.

You also say its bullshit and on that, you are NOT correct.

Yes, he isn't the only one who ever did anything illegal. However, what are we supposed to do -- nothing? Give everyone a pass until a certain time and THEN go after people? Or are we supposed to turn a blind eye because everyone who ever did it can't be indicted? So, if everyone who has ever commited murder or rape can't be indicted, does that mean we stop prosecuting altogther?

In something so widespread as this, examples must be made. It's the only way to implement change, and to make people think twice before they start using. Well, that and have a commissioner who isn't such a fuck-up might implement change, but that isn't happening anytime soon.

I would also like to point out that not everyone lied under oath regarding their steroid use like Bonds apparently did. Those who have should all be prosecuted, I don't care if they are saints, never cheated on their wives or are related to Jesus Christ.

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?

I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. Shit, there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

[midgetonadonkey]

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?

I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. Shit, there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

It's fun to watch.

[Melmart1]

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?
I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. Shit, there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.
I said that anyone who lied under oath should be indicted. I agree its fucked up he wasn't indicted.

However, I don't get why you don't think this will help baseball or the steroids problem. The reason for prosecuting people is to deter those who are thinking about delving in. It won't cure the problem but its a part of the greater solution.

[mikejones99]

Barry should just kill some bitches and reporters

[peewee's lovechild]

I said that anyone who lied under oath should be indicted. I agree its fucked up he wasn't indicted.

However, I don't get why you don't think this will help baseball or the steroids problem. The reason for prosecuting people is to deter those who are thinking about delving in. It won't cure the problem but its a part of the greater solution.

It won't help because people are still doing it. How many people were caught this year?? I believe it was three, though I may be mistaken.

Convicting Bonds will do nothing.

There will be new ways to cheat. Baseball has a tradition of cheating. This will not go away. And, if you think that going after Bonds will magically cure baseball of cheating or steroids (HGH, etc.), then you're not as smart as I thought you were.

This will do nothing.

[Melmart1]

It won't help because people are still doing it. How many people were caught this year?? I believe it was three, though I may be mistaken.

Convicting Bonds will do nothing.

There will be new ways to cheat. Baseball has a tradition of cheating. This will not go away. And, if you think that going after Bonds will magically cure baseball of cheating or steroids (HGH, etc.), then you're not as smart as I thought you were.

This will do nothing.
Oh. My. God. Where the hell did I say that? I said it is one thing that can be done to deter people. I never said it was some magical cure. Stop being an ass and trying to assume things that I never said.

[Spawn]

I said that anyone who lied under oath should be indicted. I agree its fucked up he wasn't indicted.

However, I don't get why you don't think this will help baseball or the steroids problem. The reason for prosecuting people is to deter those who are thinking about delving in. It won't cure the problem but its a part of the greater solution.

The only thing players will get from this is if they take steroids and the feds find them important enough to call them and testify, they shouldn't lie about it.

[Kermit]

I'm more than okay with making an example out of someone. But, the problem is that he used steroids before there was any policy on them at all. So, what's the point on going after him?

Because he lied to a Grand Jury.


You want to make an example?? Well, do it to someone that gets caught now. Why make someone who used steroids in the past, when it wasn't against the rules, a scapegoat??

This isn't about taking steriods. This case deals with the fact that he lied about taking them.


And, Palmeiro lied under oath. Why isn't he in jail?

There's no proof that Raffy took steriods before his Senate testimony. There's a lot of proof that Barry did. It's the backbone of the Federal Indictment. Barry's fucked.


I'm not saying you give the guy a pass. Shit, there should be a section in the Hall of Fame covering the 80s - 90s called the Steriod Era. That should be sufficient. Let the people make up their mind.

This case has nothing to do with MLB. Barry's records and the records of those entangled in the controversy are still intact and will remain that way. If we have a steriod era, we should have an era from baseballs beginning till Jackie called the "Blackless Era" or a "Greenie Era" to cover the speed most players were doing in the 60's on up to the 2000's.


Going after one person and making him an example isn't going to do anything for baseball or the steroids problem.

This person was associated with Balco. This has nothing to do with MLB or the home-run record. Most of the other athletes associated with Balco have either been punished or have copped to their misdeeds and lost everything. If Barry would've told the truth, this would be over. He chose to lie. In our criminal justice system, you simply can't lie when under oath, and if someone chooses violate that tennent they have to be punished.

[IceColdBrewski]

Because he lied to a Grand Jury.



This isn't about taking steriods. This case deals with the fact that he lied about taking them.



There's no proof that Raffy took steriods before his Senate testimony. There's a lot of proof that Barry did. It's the backbone of the Federal Indictment. Barry's fucked.



This case has nothing to do with MLB. Barry's records and the records of those entangled in the controversy are still intact and will remain that way. If we have a steriod era, we should have an era from baseballs beginning till Jackie called the "Blackless Era" or a "Greenie Era" to cover the speed most players were doing in the 60's on up to the 2000's.



This person was associated with Balco. This has nothing to do with MLB or the home-run record. Most of the other athletes associated with Balco have either been punished or have copped to their misdeeds and lost everything. If Barry would've told the truth, this would be over. He chose to lie. In our criminal justice system, you simply can't lie when under oath, and if someone chooses violate that tennent they have to be punished.

Kermit nailed it. And as I read this thread, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally bring it up. Bonds is in hot water for perjury and obstruction of justice. He lied (allegedly) to a Grand Jury. That's a big no-no in our judicial system.

A bit off topic, but what's the over/under on how long it takes for Bonds and/or his lawyers to pull the race card? You just know it's coming sooner or later.

[Kermit]

Kermit nailed it. And as I read this thread, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to finally bring it up. Bonds is in hot water for perjury and obstruction of justice. He lied (allegedly) to a Grand Jury. That's a big no-no in our judicial system.

A bit off topic, but what's the over/under on how long it takes for Bonds and/or his lawyers to pull the race card? You just know it's coming sooner or later.

Hasn't he already played it?

[IceColdBrewski]

Hasn't he already played it?

Don't know. I haven't been keeping up with it that much. He's an ass, so I try to avoid listening to him most of the time. Wouldn't suprise me though.

[Fabbs]

Big dog n pony show.
Everyone knows Bonds and others juiced and lie, current MLB players still do even if the exact juice has changed.

6 billion in profits just announced by Slug Selig.
Plenty of bribe and hush money for everyone, including if not foremost the Feds.

Move along, nothing to see here people.
6 months-1 year from now some phony announcement how not enough **evidence** to convict Bonds. He and Al Sharpton whine, blah blah blah the MLB profits continue.

[O-Factor]

Convicting Bonds will do nothing.

but put a smile on my face

[Kermit]

Big dog n pony show.
Everyone knows Bonds and others juiced and lie, current MLB players still do even if the exact juice has changed.

6 billion in profits just announced by Slug Selig.
Plenty of bribe and hush money for everyone, including if not foremost the Feds.

Move along, nothing to see here people.
6 months-1 year from now some phony announcement how not enough **evidence** to convict Bonds. He and Al Sharpton whine, blah blah blah the MLB profits continue.

Again, this has nothing to do with MLB, profits or anything related to steriod abuse. This is Barry v. The Government because Barry lied to a Grand Jury. If there wasn't enough evidence to convict Bonds, the Feds would've ended the investigation. They've been waiting for Greg Anderson who's testimony would've helped all of us avoid a trial and would've led to a Barry plea deal. Instead, we will now be subjected to endless Barry talk and a trial which will probably end with one count of perjury. They have the evidence and this thing will reach a jury.

[Fabbs]

Again, this has nothing to do with MLB, profits or anything related to steriod abuse. This is Barry v. The Government because Barry lied to a Grand Jury. If there wasn't enough evidence to convict Bonds, the Feds would've ended the investigation.
Yeah, Big Business and The Goverment/politicians never get in bed together. :rolleyes
C'mon Kermit, go around the block of Seasame Street.

[Kermit]

Yeah, Big Business and The Goverment/politicians never get in bed together.
C'mon Kermit, go around the block of Seasame Street.

I remember a couple of years ago they were the most despised sporting entity on Capital Hill. Now they're funding the governments vendeda against Barry? That's the angle you're taking? They're paying the Feds to screw Barry. Of all the retarded things insinuated...

A lot of that $6 billion came on Barry's back. If MLB really wanted to screw him, don't you think they would've suspended him before he broke the record? MLB could give a shit because they realize the hypocrisy in all the Barry bashing. I'm sure if they had one wish, it's that this would end today and Barry would go away forever instead of dominating the headlines and reminding everyone of their inability to police their sport.

Believe me, if Snufulufagus lied to a grand jury, they'd be after his cabbage eating ass to.

[Fabbs]

No Kermit the whole *investigation* is a big act.
Act by MLB and act by politicos.

This way MLB can defer to the Feds, say to public "see, an *investigation* was done and we will abide by that *investigations* results." Oh they found him not guilty? Well great, lets keep moving those profits along.

All parties involved know it's a dog show.

[Kermit]

Again. MLB has nothing to do with the investigation. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Had Bonds told the truth, this would be over. Done. Finished. Kaput.

There is no "abiding by the investigation" because said investigation has nothing to do with anything MLB related. The outcome cannot effect Bonds's prior career in any way. Now, I'll agree that it's a dog and pony show, but MLB has nothing to do with it. Every Federal trial concerning a celebrity or public figure has a habit of taking on this description. See, Scooter Libby and Michael Vick.

What MLB can do is release the Mitchell Report but it has no signifigance when it comes to Bonds. They can't touch him.

[K-State Spur]

The reason Palmeiro wasn't prosecuted is because there is no way that the Feds could prove that he lied. They only have proof of steroid use AFTER the testimony, not before.

If they have stronger evidence that Bonds did lie, they are going to come after him - especially in a public case.

This is not significantly different than the situation faced by Martha Stewart (even though she was ultimately charged with a different crime). If she had just been truthful from the get-go, it would have hurt her public image, but she wouldn't have been prosecuted.

[peewee's lovechild]

The reason Palmeiro wasn't prosecuted is because there is no way that the Feds could prove that he lied. They only have proof of steroid use AFTER the testimony, not before.


If I'm not mistaken, the sample they tested was a sample submitted before his testimony.

[Kermit]

If I'm not mistaken, the sample they tested was a sample submitted before his testimony.

No one knows, or at least I can't find anything that gives a timeline of the positive test. I know that Congress refused to press the issue. News of his failed test came 5 months after his testimony and they didn't start more stringent testing till March of that year (2005).

[midgetonadonkey]

If I'm not mistaken, the sample they tested was a sample submitted before his testimony.

You are mistaken.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2218825

Check the timeline. It shows he took the test 2 months after testifying.