Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Mavs - Nov. 15

[timvp]

-Tim Duncan was in preseason mode for the most part. I only saw complete effort out of him for a short span in the fourth quarter. Other than those couple minutes, he wasn’t giving it is all. And honestly, this isn’t the time to be killing yourself to get a November win. That said, if Duncan has five gears, it’d be nice for him to play at second gear instead of at first when facing other good teams.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. He had some turnovers early when everyone was turning it over and his defense wasn’t as good as it has been lately but you really can’t complain about his effort or production. 25 points, nine rebounds, seven assists and three steals are numbers from Ginobili that should lead to a win from the Spurs. He just didn’t have enough help tonight.

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

-This was Bruce Bowen's first off night defensively. He got beat a couple times by Josh Howard and just wasn't as crisp as you'd like him to be on that end of the court. Bowen also battled foul trouble, which didn't help matters at all. Bowen had probably his first game of the season where he didn't make any impact at all.

-Fabricio Oberto was at least awake for this game. The Argentine Robert Horry realized it was a big game and brought his energy. However, it is becoming apparent that he’s not a player you can put on Dirk Nowitzki. He’s not mobile enough and just doesn’t have defensive instincts on the perimeter. He’ll give his all against Nowitzki but the Spurs need to find a better option.

-It might be time to put Michael Finley in the freezer and test out some other options. His offense is horrid right now and his defense is average, at very best. Finley throwing up a 0-for-6 outing was a deceptively big part of the Spurs falling into the hole that they did. You can’t play with an offensive and defensive liability on your team and beat a good opponent.

-In Francisco Elson’s first game with the Spurs that happened to be against the Mavs, he looked exactly like what the Spurs needed to play against Dallas. Since then, Elson hasn’t been able to recapture that magic. He was in the game for 17 mostly invisible minutes. He had a nice jumper . . . and that’s about it.

-Brent Barry earned more playing time tonight. If Finley is going to continue to shoot like trash, might as well elevate Barry to the starting lineup. Barry’s three-point shooting got the Spurs back into the game. He came out firing and played with a purpose. Nice way to shake off an injury.

-Matt Bonner was frustrating. He’d have some very good plays and then he’d have some horrible plays. His energy and outside shooting helped the Spurs cut into the lead, but then he’d do something that’d negate his positives. The Spurs need a more consistent effort from Bonner game to game and possession to possession, or else Robert Horry is going to make him obsolete again this year.

-I won’t lie and pretend I didn’t groan when I saw Jacque Vaughn enter the contest. I wasn’t sure about how smart it was to bring someone off the injured list and straight into a contest against the Mavs. But truthfully, Vaughn played pretty good. He was one of the few players that wasn’t responsible for this loss in the least.

-Ime Udoka is suffering from First-Season-On-The-Spurs Blues. He had three really good looks at the basket and missed all three shots. It was pretty interesting to note that Pop called a play out of a timeout for Udoka to post up. That was either a gutsy call by Pop or it illustrated exactly how much Pop didn’t care about losing the game :lol. Seriously though, with the way the other players defended out there against the Mavs, the Spurs might have to bank on Udoka’s improvement as a way to better matchup against the Mavs later in the season.

-Pop was probably the happiest person in the building tonight. Pop loves early season losses and this loss, in Pop’s eyes, will give the Spurs something to build on. If the Spurs win this game, Pop has to figure out another way to get the attention of the team. With the loss, Pop can get on the team more and demand even more total team commitment to improving.

-Overall, not the way you want to play against the Dallas Mavericks but the season is still early. If the Spurs laid this type of egg in any month other than November, I might give it a second though. This early? The Mavs can have that game.

That said, the Mavs appear to be the matchup hell they’ve been for the Spurs the last couple years. I didn’t see any improvement at all in terms of finding ways to slow down Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Those guys ran wild and the Spurs had no answer defensively at all.

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters. Oberto and Elson aren’t agile enough. Bowen isn’t strong enough. Finley? God no. Maybe Udoka but that’s putting a lot of pressure on the team’s current 11th man to develop.

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

:hat

[Holt's Cat]

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

Never say never.

AJ preps his crew too much for the regular season. Not surprising, because AJ's always been the competitor. Plus he almost has to because I perceive that Cuban is probably the worst owner in the league at needling his coaching staff after every game.

The season is 100+ games long if you seek a title. Maybe AJ will figure that out sooner or later.

[ludda]

Nice analysis. I agree with all of it. Too bad I wasted my time watching our pathetic effort.

[Deimosfobos]

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.



I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.

[florige]

That Harris comment does raise some eyebrows...

[Holt's Cat]

I think the Spurs came out lethargic and didn't take the ball inside enough to start the game.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.

The Spurs always want Parker to keep penetrating, shooting and trying to score. That's their game plan. When Parker was 1-6, Pop would have gone wild if he didn't keep trying to score. :lol

[Leetonidas]

I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.
No, he did stop shooting at one point and was overly passive. He started attacking more towards the end but by then it was too late.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I wish the Spurs would take it to the rim more when their shots aren't falling. Settling for jumpers killed us.

[timvp]

I don't think we need Parker to always score big in order to win games. We just need him to play smarter, like Manu usually does.
By smarter i mean, if your shoots are not falling, then stop shooting, and help the team with anything else but points, assists, steals, hustle, defence, what ever is needed.
Instead of going 1-11, stop shooting at 1-6 and give the other 5 to someone with hot hands, like barry.Link to a boxscore where Manu just stopped shooting because he was cold?

And really, I thought Parker didn't shoot enough. He let the fact that he started off cold affect the rest of his game. He should have shot his way out of his slump. He missed two early jumpers and never shot another confident shot.

[E20]

Horry might give Dirk some trouble. Horry is strong/agile even at the age of 107 to stay with Dirk. How did Bowen do playing against Dirk in the '06 PO's?

Although Dirk only scored 17 points, he had lots of help. Mavs won't shoot this high percentage everytime they play the Spurs and the Spurs won't play shitty ass defense and Tony won't go 1-11 everytime when they play the Mavs. Bruce won't puss out on D and Tim won't play passive every time they play the Mavs.

I'm just gonna say that this is the most horrible I've seen the Spurs as a whole play during this season.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Link to a boxscore where Manu just stopped shooting because he was cold?

And really, I thought Parker didn't shoot enough. He let the fact that he started off cold affect the rest of his game. He should have shot his way out of his slump. He missed two early jumpers and never shot another confident shot.
if anything, this is the sort of scenario where more shooting less layups is a good thing. Harris completely eliminated Tony's speed advantage.

[timvp]

if anything, this is the sort of scenario where more shooting less layups is a good thing. Harris completely eliminated Tony's speed advantage.Eh, not really. Parker got up five shots early he usually makes. He missed two open jumpers, missed a shot in the lane and got blocked twice. Harris defends him well but Parker took himself out of this game.

[Holt's Cat]

if anything, this is the sort of scenario where more shooting less layups is a good thing. Harris completely eliminated Tony's speed advantage.


Pop might've brought Manu in a little earlier with the starters not doing so hot at attacking the rim.

[florige]

Horry might give Dirk some trouble. Horry is strong/agile even at the age of 107 to stay with Dirk. How did Bowen do playing against Dirk in the '06 PO's?

Although Dirk only scored 17 points, he had lots of help. Mavs won't shoot this high percentage everytime they play the Spurs and the Spurs won't play shitty ass defense and Tony won't go 1-11 everytime when they play the Mavs. Bruce won't puss out on D and Tim won't play passive every time they play the Mavs.

I'm just gonna say that this is the most horrible I've seen the Spurs as a whole play during this season.



I thought the same thing during that series in 06. For some reason those jerks ALWAYS seem to light it up against us. ALWAYS!! Why I don;t know... :rolleyes

[E20]

The 1st half was also a fucking nightmare. So many times we turned the ball over doing the same thing over and over again. Bad passes, bad triple threat stance, bad dribbling/decisions. Not gonna happen again.

[loveforthegame]

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Great analysis as usual.

This is my concern too. No need to hit panic buttons but I don't feel the Spurs have made any adjustments to counter Dallas. They still make the same msitakes.

[Deimosfobos]

Link to a boxscore where Manu just stopped shooting because he was cold?

And really, I thought Parker didn't shoot enough. He let the fact that he started off cold affect the rest of his game. He should have shot his way out of his slump. He missed two early jumpers and never shot another confident shot.


Im not great looking for old info, and i'm a bit tired, but i do remenber manu taking less than 10 shoots many times when he wasn't fealing "hot". If im not wrong, after his 48pts against the suns a while back, i think he only took like 6 shoot since he said he didn't felt good. I may be wrong... but there are examples.

Many here say he should keep doing it since spurs depend on him atacking in one way or another... i just don't agree. That's all.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Eh, not really. Parker got up five shots early he usually makes. He missed two open jumpers, missed a shot in the lane and got blocked twice. Harris defends him well but Parker took himself out of this game.I guess we'll find out on Dec 5. I thought Harris did as good a job on Tony as I've seen anyone do in a long time. Let's face it, Tony is dangerous because he is lightning quick, well so is Harris here. Tony's shooting is decent, but his killer drives are his niche. Ofcourse, everyone knows this, I'm just saying

[Findog]

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters

These teams have met so much over the past and are so familiar with each other, what is really being held back? The Mavs probably wanted it more tonight and shot the hell out of the ball.

[whottt]

Parker played like he was hung over or didn't get enough sleep last night.

His body language, everything about him...that was not the same Tony Parker who's showed up in most games this season.



If he was sick...he needs to not go out to eat in Dallas anymore or something...I remember he got sick a few years ago in Dallas too.



Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run.

I forgot about the bad blood between Barry and Stackhouse from 3 years ago...I was instantly reminded of it once I saw Barry being asked to guard him.


Barry should be the designated Stack defendee for the rest of the season...he doesn't like Stack, and Stack doesn't like him...that matchup works in our favor.


Fucking Bonner sucked ass...I'm with Sequ on the Bonner sucks wagon. I've seen enough of what he's got now...he doesn't have the ability to impact a big game in a meaningful way...kick this fucker to the curb, I don't give a fuck if he's a nice guy or makes a great hustle play once every 5 games. He does not have it...I don't want him in the game when it matters...ever. And don't insult Malik Rose by saying he's Malik with a 3 shot either...


Replace Robert Horry my fucking ass.




And save Finley a seat on that bus.....


Finley lacks the ability to make any other player better....if his shot is falling he can outscore his man in spurts or carry the Spurs offensively for a brief period...and that's all he's got.




Bottom line...to beat the Mavs...


We have to stop Stackhouse and Terry, don't even worry about stopping Dirk...those guys are the keys.

We aren't going to stop Dirk if Dirk doesn't want to be stopped...but we can make sure we don't leave those fuckers open 15 times a game...and make them play D.

[MagnusKrauss]

A loss like this is clearly a huge investment for the post season. Wins for the Mavs like this expose their capabilities.

Post-game, we'd probably see them reviewing game footage to see just where AJ focuses.

Sure, the team had an off night. But if Pop really wanted the win he'd have played every play in his book tonight. But clearly that wasn't the case.

instead of focusing on what went wrong, why not focus on where Dallas is weak? They'll be charged, playing with confidence, bringing their A game to show that the Spurs aren't the be-all and end-all. surely Pop can find just where their weaknesses lie. Give them every chance to show their capabilities and we'll see their limits.

even if we only win 1 against them in the regular season doesn't mean that they'll be facing the same team later in the playoffs. Our main concern in the regular season is not to win the division title, but to find ways to beat everybody else in the playoffs while clinching a spot. Doesn't matter what spot just as long as we get in. And with careful planning, why not pick a nice spot facing teams we can clearly eliminate with less than maximum effort?

and while we're playing other teams (aside from Dallas, Houston, Boston, Detroit, etc..) in the regular season, we can tweak our lineups and get our new guys acquianted with the system.

now that's CIA planning.

[loveforthegame]

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

[timvp]

Parker played like he was hung over or didn't get enough sleep last night.Something was definitely up. One of the commentators talked about a knee and his lack of explosion could be due to that knee tendinitis that flairs up every now and then for him.


Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run. Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago :lol

Barry was arguably the worst player for the Spurs in that series and that was a mere year and a half ago.


Barry should be the designated Stack defendeeI've never seen the word "Barry" and "defender" in the same sentence. Well, to be truthful, I still haven't.

If by defendee you mean that you want Stackhouse to guard Barry, I may actually see your point there.



Fucking Bonner sucked ass...I'm with Sequ on the Bonner sucks wagon. I've seen enough of what he's got now...he doesn't have the ability to impact a big game in a meaningful way...kick this fucker to the curb, I don't give a fuck if he's a nice guy or makes a great hustle play once every 5 games. He does not have it...I don't want him in the game when it matters...ever. And don't insult Malik Rose by saying he's Malik with a 3 shot either...

Replace Robert Horry my fucking ass.

And save Finley a seat on that bus.....

Finley lacks the ability to make any other player better....if his shot is falling he can outscore his man in spurts or carry the Spurs offensively for a brief period...and that's all he's got.
whottt hating on Bonner and Finley. I'm shocked.

:sleep




Bottom line...to beat the Mavs...


We have to stop Stackhouse and Terry, don't even worry about stopping Dirk...We aren't going to stop Dirk if Dirk doesn't want to be stopped...:huh

Did you watch the Warriors series? You beat the Mavs by bodying up Dirk and turning him into a woman. The problem is the Spurs don't have the player who can body up on Dirk, therefore it leaves other players open.

[E20]

I love it how ALWAYS when Whottt posts, moments later Timvp quotes Whottts sentence by sentence and counter arugues Whottt and then Whottt comes back quoting Timvp's sentences and counter aruges. Then repeat this 50 times and the thread blows up to 50 pages. :lol

[whottt]

Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago :lol

False...but you've always been watching a different game with Barry...obviously.


Bottom line...if Barry ever pussed out like Bonner did tonight I'd never hear the end of it...apologize to Brent Barry...or call Bonner out for being a pussy.


Fuck...this motherfucker making 3 mil a season or something to play basketball and defend a championship he did jack shit to earn...


I don't ever want to see Pop having to play nursemaid to a guy who just pussed out taking it to the hoop.

GTFO.


Barry was arguably the worst player for the Spurs in that series and that was a mere year and a half ago.

I've never seen the word "Barry" and "defender" in the same sentence. Well, to be truthful, I still haven't.

If by defendee you mean that you want Stackhouse to guard Barry, I may actually see your point there.

Stack house made exactly one shot against Barry tonight...go back and watch. Be sure to wear your glasses.



whottt hating on Bonner and Finley. I'm shocked.

:sleep



:huh

Timvp giving his hustler/heart guys a free pass to choke ass...I'm not shocked.

I was glad to see Danny Ferry and Terry Porter go...and I'll be glad when it happens to Finley and Bonner too.





Did you watch the Warriors series? You beat the Mavs by bodying up Dirk and turning him into a woman. The problem is the Spurs don't have the player who can body up on Dirk, therefore it leaves other players open.


That's how the Warriors beat the Mavs...that's not how we do it, because we really can't. The Warriors have like 35 guys on their roster with the perfect physical tools to stop Dirk...we don't.

FWIW, Pop did throw more looks at Dirk tonight than usual and it was effective...but the bottom line is we have to stop Stack and Terry...they are the ones that kill us.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Its like watching The War of the Roses all over again... except I don't know which one is Michael Douglas and which one is Katherine Turner..

[Kevin Blackistone]

The Mavs played a hell of a game. They shot the ball extremely well and were more agressive. When you make your open looks and also make a good amount of contested looks you will probably win. Spurs need to bring more energy and effort on D than they did tonight against this team.

[Avitus1]

I agree with all that was said. Hard game to watch, tough pill to swallow.

[Dirk Nowitzki]

The Spurs better hope and pray they dont have to see us in a 7 game series. We still are matchup hell for them. They cant stop us and they still ALWAYS have to come from behind against the Mavs. Cant wait till our next meeting in the American Airlines AT&T Center. Dirk plays the Spurs better in that barn! GOD I LOVE THESE GUYS! :elephant :elephant :elephant :clap :clap :clap

[roycrikside]

Good analysis, but I would disagree with you on one point. I don't think switching Barry and Finley's roles on the team would accomplish anything but make us worse in the first four minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters.

I much prefer Barry playing with the other scrubs when Manu is out there as opposed to Finley. We saw last year what happened when Barry was starting for the Spurs.

Initially it worked and Manu was quite productive with the 2nd unit as teams weren't used to him coming off the bench. But eventually they adjusted, and trapped him relentlessly, getting the ball out of his hands because nobody else out there was much of a dribbler or outside threat. Switching Finley to a starter and Barry to a sub solved that problem somewhat. Barry is more of a respected 3 point threat and playmaker than Finley so defenses were less likely to force the ball out of Manu's hands.

Besides, Fin doesn't do to much damage, on most nights. This was just an extreme example. It's not like we're going to say Tony Parker sucks because he had one awful game. As long as Finley plays 16 minutes or so, the first 8 of each half, letting him play with the starters where Tim and Tony are there to handle the offensive load and Tim and Bruce are there for defense, Finley can't be too much of a liability. Really, starting him is the only way we can hide him, outside of dropping him out of the rotation entirely. We just couldn't hide him today because the team got into such an early hole with the turnovers and Tony's struggles.

[Solid D]

I'll just add a couple of things to timvp's excellent observations.

The Mavs were much more physical than the Spurs, particularly in the first half.

Devin Harris' active hands basically ripped the game away from the Spurs in the first quarter.

Josh Howard took the baseline that the Spurs gave him and he beat the help to the cup with authority. In the first half, he had gone to the FT line more than the whole Spurs team. Undercover Brother was a key man and he was cashing checks before the Spurs could stop payment.

Fouls in the first half Spurs 22 - Mavs 7...who was the aggressor?

[timvp]

Was nice to finally see Pop give Barry important minutes in a game against the Mavs for the first time in 3 years...he really screws up the d the Mavs try and run.



Three years? WTF? You need to buy a new calender because May of 2006 was not three years ago



False...but you've always been watching a different game with Barry...obviously. :lol

What is false? That May of 2006 wasn't three years ago? Three years ago Barry had never even faced the Mavs as a member of the Spurs.

Barry started multiple games in that series, including Game 4 in which he played 38 minutes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006

Or are you going to argue that those 38 minutes weren't important minutes?

You usually are in some fantasy world when it comes to Barry but this is a new low for you. Even last year, Barry averaged over 20 minutes per game against the Mavericks.

So now not only does Barry only play point guard when whottt watches games, Barry also hasn't ever played an important minute against the Mavs in his Spurs career.

:dizzy

[slayermin]

Terry was killing us tonight. I was having flashbacks of Vinnie Johnson the way he heated up out there. It's seems like he has less responsibilities with their second unit so all he focuses on is his offense and the occasional shot to the groin.

[ludda]

I don't see Terry keeping up his hot shooting for too long. He suffers from Mav-itis in disappearing from big games.

[DDS4]

Let's just say the Spurs defense isn't what it usually is come playoff time. Devin Harris' dribble penetration and Terry's 3's killed us tonight.

Props to the Mavs...they brought it and finished.

[Bruno]

So Parker had a horrible game. Let's hope there isn't something serious like an injury behind that. NBA players have more than 100 games per season, it's not a big deal if they have sometimes a way off game as long as it's not in the playoff.

Against Lakers, Duncan was crappy but against Dallas you can't have a member of the big three being really bad and still won, even more when you need a lot of scoring because the defense isn't good.

Anyway, this was a just a November game, but Spurs should be quitemotivated for the rockets game today : being 0-3 against Texas' teams and against other contenders sounds quite bad to start the season.

[drmvp]

An optimal strategy for the Spurs in their mission to repeat might be to avoid a playoff series with their matchup nightmare, Dallas.

One effective way to accomplish that is to finish as the top seed in the conference. That, in turn, would likely lead to a Mavs/Suns playoff series, and, ceteris paribus, I don't believe the Mavs would win.

Of course, I'd love the Spurs to pummel and humiliate the Mavs in the playoffs, but I'd rather the Spurs repeat. So unless something changes in the Spurs/Mavs dynamic, the team from San Antonio would be well-advised to put a premium, atypically for them, on finishing with the best record in the conference.

[intlspurshk]

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

[smeagol]

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

Yeah, Barry really sucked major balls last night :rolleyes

[some_user86]

Against this team, SPURS look old and slow and even timid.

There is really a need for a trade to get some young and athletic slashers. Bonner and Barry need to be traded

You mean like how Dallas looked against Warriors the other night? Every team has a matchup nightmare out there in the league. Ours is Dallas. The solution isn't to pack up and go home. The solution is to strategize and practice the strategy many times before you try out against your opponent (something they didn't do in 2006). And it definitely helps if you bring in at least some defensive effort and your point guard doesn't look like his wife sucked his energy out the night before.

[ArgSpursFan.]

thanx for the analysis TIMVP,since I couldn't watch the game last night I can have a pretty good idea of what happened by reading it.
Something that catched my eyes when I took a look at the boxscore were the Mavs Fastbreak points,They had 19 last night,plus they had 52 % from the fg vs a 42 % for the spurs.
I guess they just played better D. tham us,plain and simple, but still it´s just one lose on the road.Let's move on.

[1Parker1]

Spurs not being aggresive in the first half had a lot to do with Parker. He's really the engine of that starting unit. If he's playing aggressive, penetrating in the lane, getting easy buckets then the Spurs have ball movement and easier baskets. He wasn't doing that and the rest of the team followed suit. The ball seemed stagnant at times and they were forcing the issue at times.

Warriors are the Mavs as the Mavs are to the Spurs. Mavs are built to beat the Spurs and we haven't addressed any issues since 2006 it seems. Spurs did miss Robert Horry greatly I think in tonight's game.

And please Pop, get Michael Finley out of the starting lineup. If he can't make shots, then that leaves just Parker and Duncan as the offensive weapons in your starting lineup. That packs the lane and limits the drives to the basket and limits the Spurs ball movement and offense.

Props to Barry for showing up. I just think that putting him in the starting lineup is going to be counter productive. I like him coming off the bench with Ginobili, shooting 3's and opening the floor. I think Pop should just start Udoka...he can't be that much worse than Finley. At least this way, Udoka will get some quality playing time and experience under his belt.

And I agree about Bonner being a lost cause. For every one great rebound or shot he makes, he immediately has about 3-4 careless mistakes that make you scratch your head. Like that foul after the jump ball...was that really neccesary?

[Dark Matter]

Well, we off to another typical Spur season :toast . Seventy something games to go. This note is to the new or unobservant fan.

Note: Spurs win games in cycles. On average, win 4 or 5 games in a row, lose 1. This cycle is repeated all season long :rolleyes . This is the way we roll. We are off to a good start this year. I think the Spurs will only lose 17 games this year. Only Time will tell. So, note to self. After we have won 4 or 5 games, expect the Spurs to lose 1. It doesn't matter who they are playing. Its a numbers thang:nope:oink . Sit back relax and enjoy. Its business as usual.

[Reggie Miller]

The officiating did not affect the outcome last night, but it was frustrating as hell. (The Mavs outplayed the Spurs, but the margin of victory was influenced by the refs.) The Spurs fell into the trap of complaining instead of playing mad. Oberto was the only Spur giving consistent effort, but he was largely ineffective. At least Purdue won last night...

[hitmanyr2k]

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

You seem to be the only person who sees what I see. Everytime the Spurs closed the gap they tried a double-team and got burned by a wide open three point shot or a drive because Popovich is too blind (or stupid) to see that he doesn't have the personnel that's quick enough to recover. I don't think Terry or Stackhouse had to put the ball on the floor the entire game to score their points. Just ONCE he should try playing man to man, stay at home on the shooters, and let the chips fall where they may.

[SenorSpur]

Good summary.

My concerns with this most recent Mavs loss are actually the same as with every loss recent loss to this team. The same deficiencies keep cropping up.

Matchups:
Mavs match up so well and have so much offensive firepower that they seemingly are the only team to consistently shred the Spurs defense. Pop seems powerless in how to stop them. I trust Udoka will develop to a point this season where he can crack the rotation. I still believe he can help greatly. They need more out of Elson in this type of game. I still believe he can matchup better with Dirk than anyone on the team. I don't want to see him rotate off Dirk - ever.

Turnovers:
Mavs create a lot of transition opportunities by blocking shots, slapping at the ball and creating steals on the perimeter. Spurs need to take better care of the ball, reduce the turnovers, and concentrate on negating the transition advantage the Mavs have demonstrated.

Lack of penetration opportunites:
Mavs always do a good job of keeping Tony out of the lane. Devin Harris defends him as well or better than anyone in the league. Tony, Manu and whoever the backup PG is need to continue testing the lane and being aggressive. Making smart plays, taking good shots making plays for others off penetration.

Outside shooting:
Barry was huge. The points about Finley are dead on. No longer is he the type of player that can resort to other offensive options if his shot isn't falling. He's a jump shooter only and has been for the past 5-6 years. However seeing as how his abilities started a decline his last 2 years in Dallas, no one should be surprised at his inconsistency. This was precisely what concerned me when he arrived. As a result, he becomes a liability at both ends. This team needs better outside shooting to keep defenders honest. If Finley continues his struggles, Pop needs to move him down the bench. The big three will continu doing their thing. Consistent shooting and scorig from the bench is what concerns me.

Lack of aggression:
Spurs always seem a step slow against this team. Slower to the ball, slower on defensive rotations. Spurs are normally very good at defending the 3-pt line - except against this team. The Mavs are not the kind of team you can cheat off their 3-pt shooters. Also, the Spurs usually get themselves into an early hole that they spend the entire game trying to dig themselves out of. Manu seems to be the only Spurs that consistently keeps attacking from start to finish. Sometimes this forces him to press a bit to make a play. However, I'll take that mindset any day.

As much as the Mavs question whether they can beat the Warriors, the Spurs must remember they have not solved the matchup issues versus the Mavs. It's a long season and while there is no need to panic, last night's game serves as a reminder of what a formidable foe the Mavs are for the Spurs.

[stretch]

Never say never.

AJ preps his crew too much for the regular season. Not surprising, because AJ's always been the competitor. Plus he almost has to because I perceive that Cuban is probably the worst owner in the league at needling his coaching staff after every game.

The season is 100+ games long if you seek a title. Maybe AJ will figure that out sooner or later.
Obviously you haven't kept up with the Mavs much lately, as he has really changed that approach considerably.

[stretch]

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.
You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

[Reggie Miller]

You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

Yes, that is true.

I still think the Spurs ought to try guarding the Mavs straight up in a regular season game just to see what would happen. I think you are correct, and it would get ugly. Still, it would be nice to know for sure.

[Lebowski Brickowski]

I don't feel the Spurs have made any adjustments to counter Dallas. They still make the same msitakes.

True it's a matchup problem but the Spurs can win this game with who they have now.

It'd be a huge stretch to say that Finley lost this game for us but.............................
Finley lost this game for us. :lol
Not really but his shooting and D left us in a pretty big hole.

Bottom Line:The matchup problems the mavs present IS NOT what cost us this game. We don't need to pull an Avery and change our starting lineup to matchup.

We lost this game for 2 reasons, as far as I can tell:

1. This was the WORST defensive effort I have seen from our Spurs. Just absolutely ugly. For a stretch in the 3rd, we picked up the intensity, but by then the mavs were shooting lights out.

2. Tony Parker. This game made it crystal clear that TP is the leader of this team. As he goes, the team goes. For some reason, he had no drive/ focus/run.
\
The offense works right when Tony pushes the ball and gets us into the transition game. The Spurs had absolutely ZERO transition game. The mavs transition D wasn't anything great, so this was the strangest part of the game.

When the Spurs play the mavs you have to realize that Howard/Terry/Dirk will be a problem to slow down. But that wont beat us , as long as we push and play our game.

Tonight, the Spurs didn't play "their" game on offense OR defense.

That = blowout.
:sleep

[SenorSpur]

I don't really care who guards Dirk anymore. All I ask is that we don't double team him and leave guys like Howard, Terry, and Stackhouse wide open for 3's. I'd rather see Dirk torch us for 50 then have him score 15-20 and have others kill us as well.

I agree. Screw the notion of doubleteaming Dirk. Their outside shooters are too dangerous, I think you have to play them straight up - unless you're the Warriors, of course.

[SpurYank]

Two things: As I reflect on the game and what some fairly informed Spurs fans are saying, particularly on this one thread, I offer this: Avery DOES put a tremendous amount of emphasis on winning every game, on being sky-high for every game. To him, every game is a playoff game. He is demanding and will scream at you if your effort is less than 200%. If not, Cuban will have his ass up against a wall. The Mavs played that way. They looked (for the entire game) as if this was the Western finals. The coaches on the bench looked it, the players played like it, the fans, the entire atmosphere kept oozing out of my TV 2000 miles away.

Enter the calm and collected Spurs. After all, they are the champions, 4 out of the past 8 years, and 2 of those misses could have gone the other way easily. Of course they are calm and collected! If anyone knew what date and time it was, it was Pop and the Spurs. The contrast was apparent, again, from 2000 miles away. I saw our coaches on the bench, Pop, the players. They were concernerd with how things were going. It was apparent on their faces. But I've seen those same looks each of the past 8 years. Panic was not a part of those looks I saw.

My guess (aka opinion) is that come playoff time, the Mavs will be "spent" with a tank running on less than full. In the NBA of today, playing in May and June with less than a full tank may be enough to continue playing the "wait till next year game, as the Mavs have played for two seasons. They say three's a charm.

We'll see.

[ploto]

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Isn't this primarily what the Spurs have spent the last 2 years structuring their team for-- the match-up with Dallas--why they replaced Nazr and Rasho with Elson and Bonner. Doesn't seem to be have been all that effective of a strategy and now they match up poorly with Houston, as well.

[lebomb]

Yawn.....its November.

[ploto]

I'll just add a couple of things to timvp's excellent observations.

The Mavs were much more physical than the Spurs, particularly in the first half.


This is the main thing I noticed and definitely the influence of Avery and Mario (whom I have not seen mentioned) on the Mavs. I was so surprised to see Spurs fans in the game thread and elsewhere griping that the Mavs were getting away with being too physical- that used to be the Spurs calling card.

[TampaDude]

Yawn.....its November.

Pop was yawning last night, too...yup, it's November...Spurs are still 7-2...no worries...

[41times]

My 10 thoughts after attending last nights game:

1. It's all about the Matchups. The Mavs were constructed in part to beat the Spurs. 2 years ago they reached their goal and they continue to do so still.

2. Speed Kills. Harris has too much speed for Tony Parker. If Harris shot is falling and he continues to dish off well in the lane then Parker is in trouble.

3. Josh Howard has developed his all around game and the Spurs don't have an answer for him.

4. Dirk has learned that when teams run a 2nd defender at him to pass the ball quickly. Then the next pass is the killer because it will likely be to an open player like Jet or Stack. If they are on then it's tough to stop.

5. Ginobli is a terrific all around player. Dallas had no real answer for him. If not for him the Spurs would have lost by 25. He or Terry will win 6th man.

6. The Spurs fans that surrounded me at the game last night were great. They wore their Spurs Jersey's and cheered hard. They did not curse, they did not act a fool. And in the end they accepted defeat without excuses. They were good fans adn i respect that!

7. The Spurs can no longer ignore the fact that the Mavs have their number. Some will say Regular Season don't mean crap. Well you are wrong. 5 out of the last 6 regular season games have been won by the Mavs plus 1 playoff series. The Spurs will learn just as the Mavs did with Golden St. If you lose to them 75% of the time in the regular season, chances are you are not going to beat them in the Post Season. We lost 5 of six to GSW and the Spurs have lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games now. It is more than just a "fluke" it is a viable trend.

8. You guys should probably play Barry more and Finley less. Fin sucked his last 2 years in Dallas and he sux more now.

9. Pop vs. Avery is one hell of a chess match.

10. The Spurs don't want to see the Mavs in the Post season just as the Mavs don't want to see Golden St. But as a Fan, the Mavs vs. Spurs is by far the best rivalry and best game the NBA has to offer. I hope the 2 teams can play for the WCF's. It's a shame they can't play against each other in the Finals.

[whottt]

:lol

What is false? That May of 2006 wasn't three years ago? Three years ago Barry had never even faced the Mavs as a member of the Spurs.

Barry started multiple games in that series, including Game 4 in which he played 38 minutes.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=260515006

Or are you going to argue that those 38 minutes weren't important minutes?

You usually are in some fantasy world when it comes to Barry but this is a new low for you. Even last year, Barry averaged over 20 minutes per game against the Mavericks.


Worthless minutes...because that series was lopsided as hell, within the course of a game...the sooner you realize not all minutes are equal, the sooner you'll stop jocking moves and players that won't win us a title.




So now not only does Barry only play point guard when whottt watches games, Barry also hasn't ever played an important minute against the Mavs in his Spurs career.

:dizzy

I guess Manu doesn't know what's going on either...since he said Barry was doing it. And I quoted him...

Manu>timvp

[Findog]

Two things: As I reflect on the game and what some fairly informed Spurs fans are saying, particularly on this one thread, I offer this: Avery DOES put a tremendous amount of emphasis on winning every game, on being sky-high for every game. To him, every game is a playoff game. He is demanding and will scream at you if your effort is less than 200%. If not, Cuban will have his ass up against a wall. The Mavs played that way. They looked (for the entire game) as if this was the Western finals. The coaches on the bench looked it, the players played like it, the fans, the entire atmosphere kept oozing out of my TV 2000 miles away.




You and I didn't watch the same game. The Spurs were certainly flat and lethargic, but the Mavs did not treat this as Game 7 of the Conference Finals. Their mantra since training camp has been all about pacing themselves and peaking at the right time.

And I like how Pop must certainly be holding something back, but Avery is pulling out all the stops. They were simply sharper and hit their shots. And I like the "fans and entire atmosphere oozed it" line. Did you not catch all those empty seats in the lower bowl?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

The Spurs can no longer ignore the fact that the Mavs have their number. Some will say Regular Season don't mean crap. Well you are wrong. 5 out of the last 6 regular season games have been won by the Mavs plus 1 playoff series. The Spurs will learn just as the Mavs did with Golden St. If you lose to them 75% of the time in the regular season, chances are you are not going to beat them in the Post Season. We lost 5 of six to GSW and the Spurs have lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games now. It is more than just a "fluke" it is a viable trend.
yeah, like what happened with the Cavs right? because everyone knows they beat us during regular season and that meant trouble for the Spurs...

I don't understand where the Mav fans get they own the Spurs during the playoffs. The Mavs were one idiotic foul from being eliminated! You didn't own that series, you survived it. Well deserved, but don't come here acting as if you have the Spurs playoff number because thats bullshit

[telecomguy]

-Tim Duncan was in preseason mode for the most part. I only saw complete effort out of him for a short span in the fourth quarter. Other than those couple minutes, he wasn’t giving it is all. And honestly, this isn’t the time to be killing yourself to get a November win. That said, if Duncan has five gears, it’d be nice for him to play at second gear instead of at first when facing other good teams.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. He had some turnovers early when everyone was turning it over and his defense wasn’t as good as it has been lately but you really can’t complain about his effort or production. 25 points, nine rebounds, seven assists and three steals are numbers from Ginobili that should lead to a win from the Spurs. He just didn’t have enough help tonight.

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

-This was Bruce Bowen's first off night defensively. He got beat a couple times by Josh Howard and just wasn't as crisp as you'd like him to be on that end of the court. Bowen also battled foul trouble, which didn't help matters at all. Bowen had probably his first game of the season where he didn't make any impact at all.

-Fabricio Oberto was at least awake for this game. The Argentine Robert Horry realized it was a big game and brought his energy. However, it is becoming apparent that he’s not a player you can put on Dirk Nowitzki. He’s not mobile enough and just doesn’t have defensive instincts on the perimeter. He’ll give his all against Nowitzki but the Spurs need to find a better option.

-It might be time to put Michael Finley in the freezer and test out some other options. His offense is horrid right now and his defense is average, at very best. Finley throwing up a 0-for-6 outing was a deceptively big part of the Spurs falling into the hole that they did. You can’t play with an offensive and defensive liability on your team and beat a good opponent.

-In Francisco Elson’s first game with the Spurs that happened to be against the Mavs, he looked exactly like what the Spurs needed to play against Dallas. Since then, Elson hasn’t been able to recapture that magic. He was in the game for 17 mostly invisible minutes. He had a nice jumper . . . and that’s about it.

-Brent Barry earned more playing time tonight. If Finley is going to continue to shoot like trash, might as well elevate Barry to the starting lineup. Barry’s three-point shooting got the Spurs back into the game. He came out firing and played with a purpose. Nice way to shake off an injury.

-Matt Bonner was frustrating. He’d have some very good plays and then he’d have some horrible plays. His energy and outside shooting helped the Spurs cut into the lead, but then he’d do something that’d negate his positives. The Spurs need a more consistent effort from Bonner game to game and possession to possession, or else Robert Horry is going to make him obsolete again this year.

-I won’t lie and pretend I didn’t groan when I saw Jacque Vaughn enter the contest. I wasn’t sure about how smart it was to bring someone off the injured list and straight into a contest against the Mavs. But truthfully, Vaughn played pretty good. He was one of the few players that wasn’t responsible for this loss in the least.

-Ime Udoka is suffering from First-Season-On-The-Spurs Blues. He had three really good looks at the basket and missed all three shots. It was pretty interesting to note that Pop called a play out of a timeout for Udoka to post up. That was either a gutsy call by Pop or it illustrated exactly how much Pop didn’t care about losing the game :lol. Seriously though, with the way the other players defended out there against the Mavs, the Spurs might have to bank on Udoka’s improvement as a way to better matchup against the Mavs later in the season.

-Pop was probably the happiest person in the building tonight. Pop loves early season losses and this loss, in Pop’s eyes, will give the Spurs something to build on. If the Spurs win this game, Pop has to figure out another way to get the attention of the team. With the loss, Pop can get on the team more and demand even more total team commitment to improving.

-Overall, not the way you want to play against the Dallas Mavericks but the season is still early. If the Spurs laid this type of egg in any month other than November, I might give it a second though. This early? The Mavs can have that game.

That said, the Mavs appear to be the matchup hell they’ve been for the Spurs the last couple years. I didn’t see any improvement at all in terms of finding ways to slow down Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Those guys ran wild and the Spurs had no answer defensively at all.

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters. Oberto and Elson aren’t agile enough. Bowen isn’t strong enough. Finley? God no. Maybe Udoka but that’s putting a lot of pressure on the team’s current 11th man to develop.

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

:hat

I generally agree with you although I thought TD played harder today than how you saw it (maybe not 5th gear but at least the 3rd gear).

Here is how I saw the game. Josh and Devin really killed us tonight, not Nowitzki. Neither Bowen nor Parker could stay in front of Josh/Devin's penetration nor jumpers. And I thought TP was intimidated very early on by Diop/Dampier as he stopped trying to penetrate. Devin's defence on TP was also very critical as he harrassed TP into turnovers and aimless dribbling around.

On the positive note, I thought Bonner actually played Nowitzki quite well (you are right that Oberto is not the answer for Dirk). I also thought Elson played some very good defence on Dirk on couple of one-on-one matchups and I believe on one sequence, he was quick enough to strip the ball away from Dirk resulting in a turnover and a foul from Dirk as he dove to try to get the ball back as it rolled to Manu. I really thought Pop should have had Elson on Dirk lot more during the game so that we didn't have to constantly double up on Dirk, freeing up Jet and Josh for easy looks/jumpers.

Manu was also very effective and aggressive even if he had some untimely turnovers but at least he didn't quit nor stop competing like Parker.
I think it's games like this when the Spurs are not playing well and PG isn't making things happen that Duncan has to demand the ball and become much more aggressive in the low-post. He did that a few times and certainly got lot more touches/shots than recently but he probably should have taken 30 shots last night to try to get their bigs in foul trouble and also to collapse their defence for our 3 pt. shooters. Basically against a team like the Mavs, if TD isn't aggressive in the paint, we are going to have problems as they are too tough to penetrate by our perimeter players on a regular basis.

[Sweetey]

-Tim Duncan was in preseason mode for the most part. I only saw complete effort out of him for a short span in the fourth quarter. Other than those couple minutes, he wasn’t giving it is all. And honestly, this isn’t the time to be killing yourself to get a November win. That said, if Duncan has five gears, it’d be nice for him to play at second gear instead of at first when facing other good teams.

-Manu Ginobili was the brightest spot for the Spurs. He had some turnovers early when everyone was turning it over and his defense wasn’t as good as it has been lately but you really can’t complain about his effort or production. 25 points, nine rebounds, seven assists and three steals are numbers from Ginobili that should lead to a win from the Spurs. He just didn’t have enough help tonight.

-I’m not sure what was wrong with Tony Parker. Either he was tired, sick, injured or he just wasn’t there mentally. You have to give the Mavs some credit because they defended him well but there’s really no excuse for having a 1-for-11 game. If Parker brings his B game, the Spurs probably find a way to win. Parker did have eight assists to go with only one turnover, but this highlights how important his scoring is for this team. Parker can rack up the assists but his most valuable asset to this team is the easy points he provides. Without those easy points, the offense doesn’t have enough weapons to keep up on a night when the defense is poor.

-This was Bruce Bowen's first off night defensively. He got beat a couple times by Josh Howard and just wasn't as crisp as you'd like him to be on that end of the court. Bowen also battled foul trouble, which didn't help matters at all. Bowen had probably his first game of the season where he didn't make any impact at all.

-Fabricio Oberto was at least awake for this game. The Argentine Robert Horry realized it was a big game and brought his energy. However, it is becoming apparent that he’s not a player you can put on Dirk Nowitzki. He’s not mobile enough and just doesn’t have defensive instincts on the perimeter. He’ll give his all against Nowitzki but the Spurs need to find a better option.

-It might be time to put Michael Finley in the freezer and test out some other options. His offense is horrid right now and his defense is average, at very best. Finley throwing up a 0-for-6 outing was a deceptively big part of the Spurs falling into the hole that they did. You can’t play with an offensive and defensive liability on your team and beat a good opponent.

-In Francisco Elson’s first game with the Spurs that happened to be against the Mavs, he looked exactly like what the Spurs needed to play against Dallas. Since then, Elson hasn’t been able to recapture that magic. He was in the game for 17 mostly invisible minutes. He had a nice jumper . . . and that’s about it.

-Brent Barry earned more playing time tonight. If Finley is going to continue to shoot like trash, might as well elevate Barry to the starting lineup. Barry’s three-point shooting got the Spurs back into the game. He came out firing and played with a purpose. Nice way to shake off an injury.

-Matt Bonner was frustrating. He’d have some very good plays and then he’d have some horrible plays. His energy and outside shooting helped the Spurs cut into the lead, but then he’d do something that’d negate his positives. The Spurs need a more consistent effort from Bonner game to game and possession to possession, or else Robert Horry is going to make him obsolete again this year.

-I won’t lie and pretend I didn’t groan when I saw Jacque Vaughn enter the contest. I wasn’t sure about how smart it was to bring someone off the injured list and straight into a contest against the Mavs. But truthfully, Vaughn played pretty good. He was one of the few players that wasn’t responsible for this loss in the least.

-Ime Udoka is suffering from First-Season-On-The-Spurs Blues. He had three really good looks at the basket and missed all three shots. It was pretty interesting to note that Pop called a play out of a timeout for Udoka to post up. That was either a gutsy call by Pop or it illustrated exactly how much Pop didn’t care about losing the game :lol. Seriously though, with the way the other players defended out there against the Mavs, the Spurs might have to bank on Udoka’s improvement as a way to better matchup against the Mavs later in the season.

-Pop was probably the happiest person in the building tonight. Pop loves early season losses and this loss, in Pop’s eyes, will give the Spurs something to build on. If the Spurs win this game, Pop has to figure out another way to get the attention of the team. With the loss, Pop can get on the team more and demand even more total team commitment to improving.

-Overall, not the way you want to play against the Dallas Mavericks but the season is still early. If the Spurs laid this type of egg in any month other than November, I might give it a second though. This early? The Mavs can have that game.

That said, the Mavs appear to be the matchup hell they’ve been for the Spurs the last couple years. I didn’t see any improvement at all in terms of finding ways to slow down Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard, Jason Terry and Devin Harris. Those guys ran wild and the Spurs had no answer defensively at all.

Was Pop concealing some of his cards? Most likely but I don’t know who is going to guard Nowitzki when it matters. Oberto and Elson aren’t agile enough. Bowen isn’t strong enough. Finley? God no. Maybe Udoka but that’s putting a lot of pressure on the team’s current 11th man to develop.

You gotta hand it to the Mavs because they matchup extremely well against the Spurs. Harris can stay in front of Parker like no one else in the league. Ginobili roams a bit defensively and the Mavs can counter with some deadly outside shooters. Duncan’s one weakness defensively is quickness and the Mavs have Dirk to exploit that weakness.

Is it time to get worried? Absolutely not. However, the Spurs should at least begin strategizing a plan of attack against Dallas. You can’t just bank on them to choke every year for the rest of eternity.

Or at least not before they play the Spurs in the playoffs.

:hat
PULEEZE stop your bitchin about Bonner. He is the ONLY Spur that was not a gross embarrassment last night. The Spurs overall sucked a big one and looked like a junior high school team.

[telecomguy]

The officiating did not affect the outcome last night, but it was frustrating as hell. (The Mavs outplayed the Spurs, but the margin of victory was influenced by the refs.) The Spurs fell into the trap of complaining instead of playing mad. Oberto was the only Spur giving consistent effort, but he was largely ineffective. At least Purdue won last night...

I agree they were calling lot of ticky tack fouls on Spurs (although i have to day Mavs were definitely the aggressors, the margin of fouls was ridiculous) and Mavs were hacking and chopping & kicking without getting fouls called against them. There was one sequence where TP shot the ball and basically got hammered in the chops and fell down, TD grabbed the rebound off the rim i think and put it back in while also getting chopped down. TWO fouls and NO CALLS! very blatant as well. I simply don't understand how the refs can miss such obvious hack fouls when you have two spurs going down as they are trying to make a basket in the paint.

[diego]

my thing is, if its a november game and we're going to sit our best guys down 12 with 3:30 left, then why not experiment more? why not try udoka and bowen together, washington on harris, playing dirk straight up, etc etc etc. it seemed like pop wanted to win, then backed off at the end.

i'm not one of the "sky is falling" types, and i think it was mainly a problem of us not playing our usual D, but i just dont understand what pop was looking for this game.

if dirk does go for 60 pts on 80% shooting, i fail to see how that is worse than letting them get hot from 3 and better position for offensive boards.

also, i think one of the keys for us to beat dallas is to get their bigs in foul trouble. there were plenty of times the refs swallowed their whistles last night, but we need the big 3, and oberto too, to just pound the ball inside and get diop and damp in foul trouble. those two are dumb, foul prone players and with them out we can win the rebounding and defense battle, which is the most important thing.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

PULEEZE stop your bitchin about Bonner. He is the ONLY Spur that was not a gross embarrassment last night. The Spurs overall sucked a big one and looked like a junior high school team.
you didn't watch the game did you?

[stretch]

Quit whining about the fucking calls. I noticed several times when Duncan grabbed Diop's hand when going for a rebound and pulled him back, and at least 4 or 5 obvious travels each on Manu and Parker.

[telecomguy]

Good summary.

My concerns with this most recent Mavs loss are actually the same as with every loss recent loss to this team. The same deficiencies keep cropping up.

Matchups:
Mavs match up so well and have so much offensive firepower that they seemingly are the only team to consistently shred the Spurs defense. Pop seems powerless in how to stop them. I trust Udoka will develop to a point this season where he can crack the rotation. I still believe he can help greatly. They need more out of Elson in this type of game. I still believe he can matchup better with Dirk than anyone on the team. I don't want to see him rotate off Dirk - ever.

Turnovers:
Mavs create a lot of transition opportunities by blocking shots, slapping at the ball and creating steals on the perimeter. Spurs need to take better care of the ball, reduce the turnovers, and concentrate on negating the transition advantage the Mavs have demonstrated.

Lack of penetration opportunites:
Mavs always do a good job of keeping Tony out of the lane. Devin Harris defends him as well or better than anyone in the league. Tony, Manu and whoever the backup PG is need to continue testing the lane and being aggressive. Making smart plays, taking good shots making plays for others off penetration.

Outside shooting:
Barry was huge. The points about Finley are dead on. No longer is he the type of player that can resort to other offensive options if his shot isn't falling. He's a jump shooter only and has been for the past 5-6 years. However seeing as how his abilities started a decline his last 2 years in Dallas, no one should be surprised at his inconsistency. This was precisely what concerned me when he arrived. As a result, he becomes a liability at both ends. This team needs better outside shooting to keep defenders honest. If Finley continues his struggles, Pop needs to move him down the bench. The big three will continu doing their thing. Consistent shooting and scorig from the bench is what concerns me.

Lack of aggression:
Spurs always seem a step slow against this team. Slower to the ball, slower on defensive rotations. Spurs are normally very good at defending the 3-pt line - except against this team. The Mavs are not the kind of team you can cheat off their 3-pt shooters. Also, the Spurs usually get themselves into an early hole that they spend the entire game trying to dig themselves out of. Manu seems to be the only Spurs that consistently keeps attacking from start to finish. Sometimes this forces him to press a bit to make a play. However, I'll take that mindset any day.

As much as the Mavs question whether they can beat the Warriors, the Spurs must remember they have not solved the matchup issues versus the Mavs. It's a long season and while there is no need to panic, last night's game serves as a reminder of what a formidable foe the Mavs are for the Spurs.


VERY VERY good post. I also believe that Elson should be on Dirk all the time. He is quick enough. He just has to become more active with his hands (like Bowen ScissorsHand) and he can harass Dirk. I also think Elson can take Dirk one on one and beat him off the dribble!! I saw Elson whip by Dirk with a dribble penetration (literally ran right aorund Dirk) and go to the hoop (unfortunately he missed but that is a play they should try to use more -- isolation of Elson against Dirk).

Udoka also needs to get more playing time....especially against a team like Mavs to try to contain Josh and Stackhouse and Terry. These guys are too strong and fast for Finley, Barry or even Bowen and we want to save Manu for offence, not waste all his energy chasing after these perimeter sharp shooters.

I also thought Bonner was very active and brought lot of energy and did a decent job of harrassing Dirk.

Darius probably should have been given more playing time as TP was basically totally frustrated and stopped competing on both ends. I sincerely hope he does not wilt like this in key games. He seems to great in blowouts or against weaker teams but seem to dissappear or play poorly against the better teams like Mavs. Harris is a big matchup problem. I am not sure TP can guard Harris. Harris is actually faster than TP and taller/stronger with longer arms and he really exposed TP's weak defence.

[whottt]

Quit whining about the fucking calls. I noticed several times when Duncan grabbed Diop's hand when going for a rebound and pulled him back, and at least 4 or 5 obvious travels each on Manu and Parker.


Did you notice Parker taking an elbow to the throat....



I've got no problem if they don't call fouls...as long as they call it the same way for both teams. They let the Mavs hack and blew the whistle on the Spurs.


Mavs are not a better defensive team than the Spurs, not now, not ever....the fact that the Spurs all of a sudden become a bunch of foul prone douche bags and the Mavs turn into the Spurs defensively....is definitely ref induced.


Just call it the same way for both teams...


Spurs were getting kicked in the balls and elbowed in the throat, hacked on the dribble...not a whistle was blown....if the Spurs even looked crossways at the Mavs it was a foul.



Fans of teams run by Mark Cuban...the biggest ref whiner in NBA history..do not have jack shit room to ever call out anyone else bitching about bad calls.

Your owner(no not Don Nelson) has devoted his entire tenure as owner to doing just that.


That makes you...a huge douche for even thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining.


Don't sit here and think you can be some kind of macho fan who never bitches about calls and can look down on those who do...if you were that kind of fan...you wouldn't be a Mav fan in the first place.


FO.

[Findog]

They let the Mavs hack and blew the whistle on the Spurs.

And they let whomever was guarding Dirk to try and crawl inside him like he was a tauntaun carcass.





Just call it the same way for both team...

Agreed.


Fans of teams run by Mark Cuban...the biggest ref whiner in NBA history..do not have jack shit room to ever call out anyone else bitching about bad calls.

Guilt by Association. Nice Logic.

[whottt]

And they let whomever was guarding Dirk to try and crawl inside him like he was a tauntaun carcass.






Agreed.



Guilt by Association. Nice Logic.



That's right you stupid bitch...because unless I first see you with a bigass tatoo on your forehead saying Mark Cuban is a disgusting ref whining bitch, as a qualifying statement before any other words exit from that fucking gashole you call a mouth...I am going to assume you are hypocritical POS without an ounce of credibility...just spewing more gas. A big ole fart...if you will.

[vanvannen]

Bottom line...to beat the Mavs...


We have to stop Stackhouse and Terry, don't even worry about stopping Dirk...those guys are the keys.

We aren't going to stop Dirk if Dirk doesn't want to be stopped...but we can make sure we don't leave those fuckers open 15 times a game...and make them play D.

My thoughts exactly. We have to give the Mavs the Suns's treatment. Let Amare get his, and worry about the others.
We have to deny Dallas role players, let Dirk have his.
It surprises me Pop hasn't tried that yet.

[Findog]

bitch ass bitch fucking shit

They've made wonderful advances when it comes to treating Tourette's. You make spurscenter look like he's zonked out on Xanax.

[whottt]

blah blah blah blah blah :blah (http://www.talkingwav.com/various/fart_10.wav)

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

[stretch]

Did you notice Parker taking an elbow to the throat....

Did you notice Parker just run into Howard with his eyes closed, hack the shit out of him for a steal, and get no call?


I've got no problem if they don't call fouls...as long as they call it the same way for both teams. They let the Mavs hack and blew the whistle on the Spurs.

Mavs are not a better defensive team than the Spurs, not now, not ever....the fact that the Spurs all of a sudden become a bunch of foul prone douche bags and the Mavs turn into the Spurs defensively....is definitely ref induced.

Just call it the same way for both teams...

Spurs were getting kicked in the balls and elbowed in the throat, hacked on the dribble...not a whistle was blown....if the Spurs even looked crossways at the Mavs it was a foul.

I don't complain about calls much at all, especially in a game that was evenly officiated. There were bad and missed calls both ways. I saw plenty of travels that could have been called on each of the big 3, and several ridiculous hacks and blocking fouls that were not called. And I'm not sure where you got the idea that I ever thought that the Mavs are as good, or better defensively than the Spurs, but okay...


Fans of teams run by Mark Cuban...the biggest ref whiner in NBA history..do not have jack shit room to ever call out anyone else bitching about bad calls.

Your owner(no not Don Nelson) has devoted his entire tenure as owner to doing just that.

Fans of the team of Tim Duncan, have no room to call anyone out for bad calls, as he is the whiniest player in NBA history.


That makes you...a huge douche for even thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining.


Don't sit here and think you can be some kind of macho fan who never bitches about calls and can look down on those who do...if you were that kind of fan...you wouldn't be a Mav fan in the first place.


FO.

You likewise are a huge douche for thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining. And if you weren't whining like an oversensitive little bitch like you are now, then you wouldn't be a Spur fan. Blow yourself, faggot.

[stretch]

VERY VERY good post. I also believe that Elson should be on Dirk all the time. He is quick enough. He just has to become more active with his hands (like Bowen ScissorsHand) and he can harass Dirk.

Dirk could stop, defecate in Elson's mouth, and get back up to make a shot before Elson could even begin the thought process of what he needs to do to defend Dirk. Elson sucks balls.

[41times]

yeah, like what happened with the Cavs right? because everyone knows they beat us during regular season and that meant trouble for the Spurs...

I don't understand where the Mav fans get they own the Spurs during the playoffs. The Mavs were one idiotic foul from being eliminated! You didn't own that series, you survived it. Well deserved, but don't come here acting as if you have the Spurs playoff number because thats bullshit

First of all the Cavs havent beaten the Spurs 5 of the last 6 regular season.
Second, the Cavs did not beat you in a playoff series.

Look i tried to tell people here in Dallas that we did not want to draw Golden St. in the First round because of 2 years worth of history agaisnt them. Everyone kept on say, "just wait till the Playoffs" well I did and we got our Ass kicked.

So it's not only about beating the Spurs in the regular season and 1 playoff series, it is about the Matchups. The Mavs are the toughest Matchup for the Spurs in the League. Period.

Do you think any Spurs fan is worried about the Suns....Hell no, because they know you have beaten their Ass for 2 years. The Suns know they don't want to face you guys. Period. Their Matchups are horrible.

I like the Spurs. They are my 2nd favorite team. When the Mavs get eliminated i always cheer for them. So i follow them closely so i am not some idiot fan who only looks at the score. I have had Mavs season tickets for 7 years. I have seen every Mavs Spurs game here in Dallas in Person for 7 years plus several in San Antonio as well. I did not want to admit that our 2002 team needed changing after you guys eliminated us. But it was true.
So i don't care if you believe what i am saying or not.

But the Spurs do not want to play the Mavs in the Playoffs if they don't have to.

[hitmanyr2k]

You really don't want Dirk to torch you for 50, because the better Dirk plays, the better the entire team plays. His scoring isn't like Kobe's. Dirk takes smart shots that are still in the flow of the offense. He doesnt take 40 shots and hit only 15 of them to have a 40 or 50 point game like Kobe does. When Dirk hits for 50, he is usualy scoring at an incredibly high percentage, while still keeping his teammates involved, especially due to increased attention focused on him by defenses.

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

[Reggie Miller]

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

I don't think it's a "quick fix," but they need to try this at least once before the playoffs. I'm not nearly as sure that it would work for the best, but it's the one thing Pop hasn't done yet. If the Spurs are willing to concede a loss like last night, they should take the risk of Dirk torching them, which could very well happen.

As we've seen, trying something new in the postseason for the first time didn't work so hot against the Mavericks.

[whottt]

Did you notice Parker just run into Howard with his eyes closed, hack the shit out of him for a steal, and get no call?


Not the same as getting hit in the throat and kicked in the balls. If you had any balls you'd understand that.




I don't complain about calls much at all,

but you damn sure complain about others doing it...while Mark Cuban owns your team. That makes you a fucking joke.


especially in a game that was evenly officiated. There were bad and missed calls both ways. I saw plenty of travels that could have been called on each of the big 3, and several ridiculous hacks and blocking fouls that were not called. And I'm not sure where you got the idea that I ever thought that the Mavs are as good, or better defensively than the Spurs, but okay...



Fans of the team of Tim Duncan, have no room to call anyone out for bad calls, as he is the whiniest player in NBA history.


My my poor dumb MavFan...if you weren't a bandwagoner and had actually followed basketball prior to the "golden age" of Mavs basketball...


You'd know that Cuban is the undisputed King of whining...

He pioneered new ways of Ref whining to the joy of stupid Mav fan...it's really funny. Too bad you are a newbie to basketball, you'd save youself some embarrasment if you weren't...


You'd also realize what a fucking joke you are for attempting to call out anyone about anything concering the officiating.


There is no bigger ref whiner in the history of any sport anywhere...than Mark Cuban.


Anyone can whine about the officiating and not be called out by you, without you making a complete ass of yourself.


Never call anyone out about any officiating in any sport anywhere...that's the only way you can avoid being percived as stupid.


No one, anywhere, about anything, concering officiating. You forfeit the rigth to do that with any credibility the second you choose to root for the Mavs.



You likewise are a huge douche for thinking you can call out anyone else for complaining. And if you weren't whining like an oversensitive little bitch like you are now, then you wouldn't be a Spur fan. Blow yourself, faggot.


And you are just big ole smelly fart #2. Clueless...and stupid.

[timvp]

Worthless minutes...because that series was lopsided as hell, within the course of a game...the sooner you realize not all minutes are equal, the sooner you'll stop jocking moves and players that won't win us a title. The Dallas series was "lopsided as hell"? Did you watch any of those games? Only the second game was lopsided.

Barry played in a lot of the close fourth quarters and overtimes. In his 38 minute game, a good number of those minutes came in the fourth and overtime.

By whottt it's-Barry-so-I-become-crazy logic, the fourth quarter and overtime of Game 4 of the 2006 WCSF are worthless minutes that don't count because they weren't important. But November 5th in a game that the Spurs never trailed by less than 10 with Barry in the game, Barry played his first meaningful minutes against the Mavs of his Spurs career.

That's just ..... amazing.

:dizzy

[tav1]

To my mind, Finley should be replaced by Udoka in the starting line up. Udoka doesn't yet know the system, but now is the time to give him minutes to learn it. Finley just looks lousy on both ends.

Against the Mavs, the Spurs need more scoring. In the playoffs, I'd rather see Darius Washington than Vaughn. Washington needs more minutes so that he can be up to par in post season.

Finally, I wonder if the Spurs would consider offering the Cavs (who are now without a completely unproductive Larry Hughes) Barry and a 2nd round pick in a sign and trade for Sideshow Bob at the MLE for the remainder of the season. Varejao could defend Nowitski and provide rebounding, energy, high screens and defense. With Udoka in the fold, we could get along without Barry and would add a piece that could be invaluable in the Spring. Another player to consider is Trevor Ariza. Ariza is not playing in Orlando and has the length, vertical hops and athleticism to agitate Nowitski or slow down Jason Terry. Ariza also has an expiring deal so if it doesn't work out it doesn't cause long term problems. I'd be willing to give up a late first round pick for Ariza. He's as good as anyone we would draft at 28 anyway.

[whottt]

The Dallas series was "lopsided as hell"? Did you watch any of those games? Only the second game was lopsided.

Barry played in a lot of the close fourth quarters and overtimes. In his 38 minute game, a good number of those minutes came in the fourth and overtime.

False.





By whottt it's-Barry-so-I-become-crazy logic, the fourth quarter and overtime of Game 4 of the 2006 WCSF are worthless minutes that don't count because they weren't important. But November 5th in a game that the Spurs never trailed by less than 10 with Barry in the game, Barry played his first meaningful minutes against the Mavs of his Spurs career.

That's just ..... amazing.

:dizzy


What's amazing is how wrong you are when it comes to Barry...the Spurs most certainly did trail by more than 10 points with Barry in the game...and more importantly, Barry was the guy that got them to within 10...and most amazingly...Pop left him in. He hadn't done that since the 2005 regular season.

[DubMcDub]

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.

The Spurs didn't double team Dirk all that often in the '06 playoffs. They're trying it now because GS exposed it as a weakness of the Mavs (just like literally every single team the Mavs have played this year is trying it).

Soon, there will come a point where neither doubling Dirk nor leaving him in single coverage will be a superior choice, because he's improving exponentially as a passer. It's just like Duncan--you can double him and deny him the shot, but that doesn't make him any less effective as a basketball player. It just makes him score less points.

[timvp]

What's amazing is how wrong you are when it comes to Barry...the Spurs most certainly did trail by more than 10 points with Barry in the game...and more importantly, Barry was the guy that got them to within 10...and most amazingly...Pop left him in. He hadn't done that since the 2005 regular season.Garbage minutes in a November blowout > 38 minutes in Game 4 of the WCSF

Got it. :tu

Maybe now you can go on a rant explaining how Barry played point guard last night so that's why his shot was going in. Come on, make up that PG BS like you usually do when Barry plays well.

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry


if you weren't a bandwagoner and had actually followed basketball prior to the "golden age" of Mavs basketball...

I see your Larry Kenon and raise you one Jay Vincent, cuntmuffin.

[whottt]

And a fart fart here and a fart fart there, here a fart, there a fart, every where a Mavfan...

[Phenomanul]

My 10 thoughts after attending last nights game:

1. It's all about the Matchups. The Mavs were constructed in part to beat the Spurs. 2 years ago they reached their goal and they continue to do so still.

2. Speed Kills. Harris has too much speed for Tony Parker. If Harris shot is falling and he continues to dish off well in the lane then Parker is in trouble.

3. Josh Howard has developed his all around game and the Spurs don't have an answer for him.

4. Dirk has learned that when teams run a 2nd defender at him to pass the ball quickly. Then the next pass is the killer because it will likely be to an open player like Jet or Stack. If they are on then it's tough to stop.

5. Ginobli is a terrific all around player. Dallas had no real answer for him. If not for him the Spurs would have lost by 25. He or Terry will win 6th man.

6. The Spurs fans that surrounded me at the game last night were great. They wore their Spurs Jersey's and cheered hard. They did not curse, they did not act a fool. And in the end they accepted defeat without excuses. They were good fans adn i respect that!

7. The Spurs can no longer ignore the fact that the Mavs have their number. Some will say Regular Season don't mean crap. Well you are wrong. 5 out of the last 6 regular season games have been won by the Mavs plus 1 playoff series. The Spurs will learn just as the Mavs did with Golden St. If you lose to them 75% of the time in the regular season, chances are you are not going to beat them in the Post Season. We lost 5 of six to GSW and the Spurs have lost 5 of the last 6 regular season games now. It is more than just a "fluke" it is a viable trend.

8. You guys should probably play Barry more and Finley less. Fin sucked his last 2 years in Dallas and he sux more now.

9. Pop vs. Avery is one hell of a chess match.

10. The Spurs don't want to see the Mavs in the Post season just as the Mavs don't want to see Golden St. But as a Fan, the Mavs vs. Spurs is by far the best rivalry and best game the NBA has to offer. I hope the 2 teams can play for the WCF's. It's a shame they can't play against each other in the Finals.

Good thoughts from a Mav Fan's perspective... I may not agree with it all but most of it made sense.

I would remind you that the string of regular season victories the Mavs have against the Spurs also neglects the fact that:

Ginobili didn't play in the second half of a matchup in San Antonio (when he hurt his back diving for a ball) - the Mavs took advantage of his absence and won the game.

The other was the infamous Joey Crawford game.... 'nough said.

So the string is not as dominant as recent history would suggest.

[whottt]

Garbage minutes in a November blowout > 38 minutes in Game 4 of the WCSF

Got it. :tu

It wasn't a blowout when Barry was in the game.

And of course I am not claiming this game was more meaningful than a playoff game...I'm saying the situation in which Barry was allowed to play was a more meaningful situation within the game.


Notice...Barry didn't get many minutes last night overall...what'd he play? 14 minutes?

But the situation in which he was allowed to remain in the game was different...and you saw his impact.


And you see me giving Pop credit for it...all minutes are not the same.


Maybe now you can go on a rant explaining how Barry played point guard last night so that's why his shot was going in. Come on, make up that PG BS like you usually do when Barry plays well.


Actually he was getting to initiate stuff...he wasn't just standing there waiting for the open 3...and even when he was, he was doing it on Duncan's side....and the Mavs don't like that...whether Barry's shot is falling, or not.

Meanwhile...I expect you are going to be busy trying to come up with excuses for Bonner's continuted butt clencing the second the game has any kind of intensity...and now he's added pouting, avoiding getting fouled at the hoop in one on one breakaway situations, and needing Pop to hold his hand in mid game, to his repetoirse of soft bitch manuevers...so I'll be classy enough to give you time to come up with ways of spinning his obvious choking tendencies...good luck.

[Findog]

:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry

I wish there was an icon for having Brent Barry's cock in your mouth, that would be quite apt as well.

[stretch]

If Dork is going off and scoring the majority of the points then how exactly is the rest of the team going to play better offensively if the Spurs are staying home on the shooters like Terry and Stackhouse? Like I said before, Terry and Stackhouse didn't even have to work for their points yesterday. It was catch and shoot all night because of stupid double-teaming forcing the Spurs to scramble around like idiots.

The no double-teaming strategy is how the Spurs beat the Suns in '05. Amare and Nash were played straight up and they got their numbers but ultimately their roleplayers weren't factors. They need to try the same strategy on the Mavs and stop giving Dirk so much respect.
Because other Mavs players are capable of creating for themselves, unlike the Suns. Terry, Harris, Howard, Stackhouse are all players capable of creating their own shot.

[Findog]

Sequ says Tony Parker (1-11, matador defense) is the best fucking player in the NBA.

whottt says this team goes as far as Brent Barry takes them.

Maybe you guys should lay off the peyote for a few months.

[Holt's Cat]

Sequ says Tony Parker (1-11, matador defense) is the best fucking player in the NBA.

whottt says this team goes as far as Brent Barry takes them.

Maybe you guys should lay off the peyote for a few months.


This team will go as far as Parker will take them, especially with Duncan being the focal point of many teams' D.

Maybe you need to read or scroll instead of dispensing advice

[Reggie Miller]

Because other Mavs players are capable of creating for themselves, unlike the Suns. Terry, Harris, Howard, Stackhouse are all players capable of creating their own shot.

Don't forget: who are the Spurs going to put on Nowitzki? I think Dirk alone could make you pay in that scenario as well. He's difficult to defend one on one when he gets the ball in the elbow, unless you throw a big body on him.

Still, I wish they'd at least try it. At least I would stop bitching about Pop being stubborn...

[Holt's Cat]

Well, I'm glad the insecure Mav Fan SpursTalk.com clusterfuck is starting to come back. I was concerned about them after their latest postseason debacle.

[stretch]

Not the same as getting hit in the throat and kicked in the balls. If you had any balls you'd understand that.

A foul is a foul, motherfucker.





but you damn sure complain about others doing it...while Mark Cuban owns your team. That makes you a fucking joke.

And you are complaining about calls with Tim Duncan being the all-time face of your franchise. Makes you a fucking joke too.





My my poor dumb MavFan...if you weren't a bandwagoner and had actually followed basketball prior to the "golden age" of Mavs basketball...

You'd know that Cuban is the undisputed King of whining...

He pioneered new ways of Ref whining to the joy of stupid Mav fan...it's really funny. Too bad you are a newbie to basketball, you'd save youself some embarrasment if you weren't...

You'd also realize what a fucking joke you are for attempting to call out anyone about anything concering the officiating.

There is no bigger ref whiner in the history of any sport anywhere...than Mark Cuban.

Anyone can whine about the officiating and not be called out by you, without you making a complete ass of yourself.

Never call anyone out about any officiating in any sport anywhere...that's the only way you can avoid being percived as stupid.

No one, anywhere, about anything, concering officiating. You forfeit the rigth to do that with any credibility the second you choose to root for the Mavs.

I'm not sure what Mark Cuban has to do with me. I'm a Mavs fan. I root for the team. I'm not a Mark Cuban fan. Either way, with your absolutely retarded logic, who are you to call out someone for whining when Tim Duncan, the whiniest player in the NBA, is the face of your franchise, you hypocritical piece of shit?


And you are just big ole smelly fart #2. Clueless...and stupid.

Now you sound like Nashfan, with your stupid fart and poop jokes. Pull your head out of your ass.

[Findog]

This team will go as far as Parker will take them, especially with Duncan being the focal point of many teams' D.

Maybe you need to read or scroll instead of dispensing advice

Maybe you need to learn how to take a joke instead of taking things so literally. You can take the gun out of your mouth and step back from the ledge, it was one regular season loss.

[Findog]

Either way, with your absolutely retarded logic

Logic is not whottt's strong suit. Should he ever succeed Buford, look for the Spurs to lock up Barry to a max deal.

[Holt's Cat]

Maybe you need to learn how to take a joke instead of taking things so literally. You can take the gun out of your mouth and step back from the ledge, it was one regular season loss.


Maybe you need to learn how to tell a good joke.

Spurs fans don't sweat regular season losses. Title virgins do.

[stretch]

Don't forget: who are the Spurs going to put on Nowitzki? I think Dirk alone could make you pay in that scenario as well. He's difficult to defend one on one when he gets the ball in the elbow, unless you throw a big body on him.

Still, I wish they'd at least try it. At least I would stop bitching about Pop being stubborn...
That too. Dirk has proven that he can outplay whomever defends him. Duncan can't defend him obviously. If Bowen is on him, it will allow Howard to get any shot he wants because Ginobili cannot defend him. Parker clearly cannot defend either Harris or Terry, and somehow Stackhouse is always finding a way to get open as well. I think the Spurs only chances are if they do some effective double teaming, rotate well, and hope that the Mavs miss some easy shots, because the Mavs match up way too well with them.

[Findog]

Well, I'm glad the insecure Mav Fan SpursTalk.com clusterfuck is starting to come back. I was concerned about them after their latest postseason debacle.

We're insecure? I would hate to see what this board looks like if heaven forbid the Spurs get eliminated in the playoffs, which is much easier said than done.

[Holt's Cat]

We're insecure?

Yes.


I would hate to see what this board looks like if heaven forbid the Spurs get eliminated in the playoffs, which is much easier said than done.

Sure, the postseason matters.

[stretch]

Yes.

lol, 4 rings argument

[Findog]

Parker clearly cannot defend either Harris or Terry

I've always thought Parker is overrated. He's not a good defender, and what does he bring to the table if he's not scoring? He doesn't run that offense very well, Manu is much better at creating for others than he is. I don't care that he looked like a Hall of Famer against Cleveland.

[Holt's Cat]

lol, 4 rings argument

lol, no rings argument

[Holt's Cat]

I've always thought Parker is overrated. He's not a good defender, and what does he bring to the table if he's not scoring? He doesn't run that offense very well, Manu is much better at creating for others than he is. I don't care that he looked like a Hall of Famer against Cleveland.

Review the last play of Game 5 of the 2005 NBA Finals and get back to me. Thanks.

[Findog]

Yes.

Whatever you say. Aside from the obvious trolls, Mav fan has been pretty restrained and ho-hum about this. The overreaction from Spurs Nation is funny. I wish some of you could be GM for a day and ruin your team.

[stretch]

lol, no rings argument
lol, further proof of spurs insecurity

[whottt]

Amzingly...adding a bunch of farts together does not result in a less stinky fart...just a bigger, stinkier...fart.

[stretch]

Review the last play of Game 5 of the 2005 NBA Finals and get back to me. Thanks.
Horry's shot?

[Holt's Cat]

Whatever you say. Aside from the obvious trolls, Mav fan has been pretty restrained and ho-hum about this. The overreaction from Spurs Nation is funny. I wish some of you could be GM for a day and ruin your team.

:lol that there are non-troll Mav fans.

[Findog]

Review the last play of Game 5 of the 2005 NBA Finals and get back to me. Thanks.

Review Devin Harris making him look like a statue last night and get back to me. Dirk gets a blocked shot and draws a charge every once in a while, I'm not about to start comparing him to Bill Russell.

[Holt's Cat]

Horry's shot?

Try again.

[Findog]

:lol that there are non-troll Mav fans.

lol, Holt's Cat.

[pad300]

A few thoughts
1) Refereeing. We really need to learn the Pat Riley method of dealing with half-assed reffing. If you are going to get called for pussy fouls, DON'T ease up. Instead, HIT HARDER... Trying to avoid fouls is nearly impossible when the refs are being pussy. Instead, try and get your money's worth. If you think you might get called, take a serious piece of the guy; leave a bruise or three. The refs tend to back off when they realize that pussy foul calls means that your just going to hit harder...

2) If Darius Washington is good enough to keep him on the bench, then use him. If not send him to the Toros. His getting 2 minutes simply is not enough for his development and if he is only getting 2 minutes then he's not good enough to be on the bench...Vaughn, although a decent guy and a reliable veteran, is really a 3ed PG talent. Play Darius so he can learn to be 2nd PG by doing, or send him to the Toros to learn his craft (hopefully he'll learn fast enough to come back up as 2nd PG come February).

3) I was hoping to see Dirk vs. Mahinmi. Mahinmi is perhaps the one player on the roster with the combination of Athleticism, size and power to give Dirk the S-Jax treatment...Defending Dirk is not really a matter of defensive talent. Rather it is a matter of physical capability; neither S-Jax or Matt Barnes is really that skilled defensively (they are not masters of defensive positioning, defensive footwork, or even have particularly sticky hands). However, their combination size, athletic ability and aggressiveness really give Dirk fits. I think Mahinmi can do everything those two do, with an extra 2 or 3 inches thrown in for a good measure...

[Holt's Cat]

lol, further proof of spurs insecurity

So Spurs fans are "insecure" because their favorite team has won 4 titles while Mav fan has seen their team make history in the last two postseasons in the way no franchise wants to make history? Um, ok.

[stretch]

I've always thought Parker is overrated. He's not a good defender, and what does he bring to the table if he's not scoring? He doesn't run that offense very well, Manu is much better at creating for others than he is. I don't care that he looked like a Hall of Famer against Cleveland.
Agreed. He is a good player, but no superstar like people say. And without Tim Duncan, I don't even know if he is an all-star, considering it is Duncan who gets him all the open layups, and it is clear that his confidence is based on his layups. If people prevent him from making those easy layups, then his shot stops falling, then he is a completely useless player, considering he is not a good passer or defender, or anything else for that matter.

[Holt's Cat]

Review Devin Harris making him look like a statue last night and get back to me. Dirk gets a blocked shot and draws a charge every once in a while, I'm not about to start comparing him to Bill Russell.

Harris did no such thing.

[stretch]

So Spurs fans are "insecure" because their favorite team has won 4 titles while Mav fan has seen their team make history in the last two postseasons in the way no franchise wants to make history? Um, ok.
No. Spurs fans are insecure because they jump on the bandwagon without knowing much about basketball, and anytime they get stumped in a debate, they resort to the shitty 4 rings/0 rings argument, thinking it got them somewhere, when in reality, it just shows how much of a clueless douche they really are, like yourself.

[Holt's Cat]

Parker isn't as overrated in here as Harris is overrated by Mav fans.

[timvp]

It wasn't a blowout when Barry was in the game. The Spurs were down by more than 10 points the entire time Barry was in the game. What part of that do you not understand? He helped trim an 18 point lead down to 10 in a meaningless game. Do you want him to win some sort of award?


And of course I am not claiming this game was more meaningful than a playoff game...I'm saying the situation in which Barry was allowed to play was a more meaningful situation within the game. Seriously, did you not watch the 2006 WCSF? Explain to me how Barry playing the final three minutes of the fourth quarter and the entire overtime of Game 4 after Manu fouled out wasn't Barry meaningful minutes. And that's only one example from that series.

I want an explanation on this one. Don't skip it on your reply. I seriously want to see you explain how playing in a November blowout was more meaningful than Barry playing the final 8 minutes of a must win Game 4 on the road. Thanks.



Notice...Barry didn't get many minutes last night overall...what'd he play? 14 minutes?

But the situation in which he was allowed to remain in the game was different...and you saw his impact.

And you see me giving Pop credit for it...all minutes are not the same. If by "different" you mean the game wasn't close, your point would be closer to reality. Are you trying to say the only meaningful minutes are minutes when the Spurs are getting blown out in a game that doesn't matter?


Actually he was getting to initiate stuff:lmao

Thanks.

[Holt's Cat]

No. Spurs fans are insecure because they jump on the bandwagon without knowing much about basketball, and anytime they get stumped in a debate, they resort to the shitty 4 rings/0 rings argument,


First off, any fan of a DFW pro sports franchise shouldn't be calling anyone else a bandwagoner.



thinking it got them somewhere, when in reality, it just shows how much of a clueless douche they really are, like yourself.

Nah, it just shows that you have no response for that.

And the odds of douchebaggery are rather high for you.

[Findog]

Harris did no such thing.

lol, Holt's Cat's cateracts.

[stretch]

Try again.
Hamilton missing a rushed shot at the end of overtime despite average defense by Parker?

[leemajors]

A few thoughts
1) Refereeing. We really need to learn the Pat Riley method of dealing with half-assed reffing. If you are going to get called for pussy fouls, DON'T ease up. Instead, HIT HARDER... Trying to avoid fouls is nearly impossible when the refs are being pussy. Instead, try and get your money's worth. If you think you might get called, take a serious piece of the guy; leave a bruise or three. The refs tend to back off when they realize that pussy foul calls means that your just going to hit harder...

2) If Darius Washington is good enough to keep him on the bench, then use him. If not send him to the Toros. His getting 2 minutes simply is not enough for his development and if he is only getting 2 minutes then he's not good enough to be on the bench...Vaughn, although a decent guy and a reliable veteran, is really a 3ed PG talent. Play Darius so he can learn to be 2nd PG by doing, or send him to the Toros to learn his craft (hopefully he'll learn fast enough to come back up as 2nd PG come February).

3) I was hoping to see Dirk vs. Mahinmi. Mahinmi is perhaps the one player on the roster with the combination of Athleticism, size and power to give Dirk the S-Jax treatment...Defending Dirk is not really a matter of defensive talent. Rather it is a matter of physical capability; neither S-Jax or Matt Barnes is really that skilled defensively (they are not masters of defensive positioning, defensive footwork, or even have particularly sticky hands). However, their combination size, athletic ability and aggressiveness really give Dirk fits. I think Mahinmi can do everything those two do, with an extra 2 or 3 inches thrown in for a good measure...
dirk could foul ian out in under 2 minutes. ian would not get any sort of benefit of the doubt from the refs.

[Findog]

Agreed. He is a good player, but no superstar like people say. And without Tim Duncan, I don't even know if he is an all-star, considering it is Duncan who gets him all the open layups, and it is clear that his confidence is based on his layups. If people prevent him from making those easy layups, then his shot stops falling, then he is a completely useless player, considering he is not a good passer or defender, or anything else for that matter.

Yeah, he's a good player, but a great portion of his success is due to the presence of Duncan making things easier for him. He's also in a system that plays to his strengths and hides a lot of his weaknesses. He's also been coached very well, whereas who knows how he would've turned out if he had been drafted by a struggling franchise.

[Holt's Cat]

Hamilton missing a rushed shot at the end of overtime despite average defense by Parker?

That was "average defense"? Why couldn't Rip get around him to get a decent shot off?

[stretch]

First off, any fan of a DFW pro sports franchise shouldn't be calling anyone else a bandwagoner.

I just did. Sue me, faggot.


Yup, it shows that us insecure Spurs fans have no response for an intelligent basketball discussion.

The odds of douchebaggery are rather high for me.

Fixed.

[stretch]

That was "average defense"? Why couldn't Rip get around him to get a decent shot off?
Because he didn't have time? The play they ran was terrible, and Rip should not have even been shooting that shot. It should have either been Rasheed or Billups.

[Findog]

I just did. Sue me, faggot.



Fixed.

You know the usual suspects are in here dissecting the loss and showing how much they know about basketball. Then there are those stuck with bitter beer face because their favorite team LOST A GAME!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!!!!

[Holt's Cat]

I just did. Sue me, faggot.

My my someone's mad. Too bad your joke of a favorite team can't win a title. Nobody remembers teams that have a good regular season against the champs. Hakeem's Rockets were 0-8 against Kemp and Payton's Sonics in the 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons.

[Holt's Cat]

You know the usual suspects are in here dissecting the loss and showing how much they know about basketball. Then there are those stuck with bitter beer face because their favorite team LOST A GAME!!!!!! OH NO!!!!!!!!


You don't know jack about basketball. Stick to football or tetherball.

[Holt's Cat]

Because he didn't have time? The play they ran was terrible, and Rip should not have even been shooting that shot. It should have either been Rasheed or Billups.


He didn't have time? He had enough time to try to pump fake TP twice before he went up with the shot.

[stretch]

My my someone's mad. Too bad your joke of a favorite team can't win a title.

Nope, not mad. Just amused by your utter cluelessness.


Nobody remembers teams that have a good regular season against the champs. Hakeem's Rockets were 0-8 against Kemp and Payton's Sonics in the 1993-94 and 1994-95 seasons.
:wtf

Ok...

[Findog]

Parker isn't as overrated in here as Harris is overrated by Mav fans.

Harris is a nice player who can play some d, runs the floor very well, finishes at the rim consistently and can flop as well as Manu. On the flip side, he tends to telegraph his passes, doesn't always use his speed wisely, sometimes overdribbles in an attempt to do too much and his jumper is iffy.

But Tony Parker is the best fuckin' player in the League. Book it!

[leemajors]

I've always thought Parker is overrated. He's not a good defender, and what does he bring to the table if he's not scoring? He doesn't run that offense very well, Manu is much better at creating for others than he is. I don't care that he looked like a Hall of Famer against Cleveland.
parker is a good defender, not an elite one. he had a very bad game all around, but he is capable of playing very good defense - the spurs wouldn't have kept him around him this long if he couldn't.

[timvp]

2) If Darius Washington is good enough to keep him on the bench, then use him. If not send him to the Toros.The Toros regular season is still a ways off.


3) I was hoping to see Dirk vs. Mahinmi. Dirk would light Mahinmi up for 50. Mahinmi is a raw player and he's most raw on his perimeter defensive skills.

[Findog]

You don't know jack about basketball. Stick to football or tetherball.

I'm sorry, did I ask you a question? If I want to hear from you, I'll ask you about the Silver Starzz.

[stretch]

He didn't have time? He had enough time to try to pump fake TP twice before he went up with the shot.
Whether you want to believe it was great defense or not, explain to me how one play that in your eyes, was great defense, means a player is a good defender?

It doesn't.

[pad300]

dirk could foul ian out in under 2 minutes. ian would not get any sort of benefit of the doubt from the refs.

So long as Ian is following point #1, I don't care. Call me a thug... But I suspect that even if Ian fouls out in 2 minutes, it will buy a lot of "room the referees" for the rest of the team to actually get to play in. And a few bruises and floor burns might really throw off Dirk's game.

[Holt's Cat]

Nope, not mad. Just amused by your utter cluelessness.

Sure you aren't, Mr. Internet Tough Guy.

[Holt's Cat]

Whether you want to believe it was great defense or not, explain to me how one play that in your eyes, was great defense, means a player is a good defender?

It doesn't.


Uh, he's capable of shutting down a scorer like Hamilton in crunch time on the game's biggest stage.

[Holt's Cat]

I'm sorry, did I ask you a question?

Then don't respond, genius.

[whottt]

The Spurs were down by more than 10 points the entire time Barry was in the game. What part of that do you not understand? He helped trim an 18 point lead down to 10 in a meaningless game. Do you want him to win some sort of award?

Yet...



But November 5th in a game that the Spurs never trailed by less than 10 with Barry in the game, Barry played his first meaningful minutes against the Mavs of his Spurs career.


Coherence...what can it do for you?




Seriously, did you not watch the 2006 WCSF? Explain to me how Barry playing the final three minutes of the fourth quarter and the entire overtime of Game 4 after Manu fouled out wasn't Barry meaningful minutes. And that's only one example from that series.


Uh no...that is an exception to that series, which is why you hammer on it.

Not to mention that's Barry's worst playoff game ever...not to be confused with a typical Matt Bonner performance under pressure.


Basically Barry didn't get played more than a couple of minutes at a time till Manu fouled out...and that was like the first time he touched the ball in the entire series as any other than a spot up shooter.




I want an explanation on this one. Don't skip it on your reply. I seriously want to see you explain how playing in a November blowout was more meaningful than Barry playing the final 8 minutes of a must win Game 4 on the road. Thanks.

Because Barry got to be a bigger part of the offense....and didn't get his minutes he spurts, he got lengthy PT...with the best players on the team.







If by "different" you mean the game wasn't close, your point would be closer to reality. Are you trying to say the only meaningful minutes are minutes when the Spurs are getting blown out in a game that doesn't matter?

:lmao

Thanks.


No...I'm saying being used as a viable part of the offense and getting a substantial chunk of minutes is being a bigger part of the team, and the game, than being isolated on an island and being substituted in and out for every 30 seconds.


It's really not that hard to figure out....hence why I bitch about Barry's minutes and usage when he gets 20 plus minutes of PT, and not when he gets 14.


You have definite bias against Barry...you have from day 1, and you also seem to not pay a whole lot of attention to how and when he is used. You tend act like he either shows up or he doesn't...and I promise you, that's not all on him...it's definitely got a lot to do with the way Pop uses him.


I'm sorry you don't see it...but the important thing is that Pop does...finally.

[stretch]

Uh, he's capable of shutting down a scorer like Hamilton in crunch time on the game's biggest stage.
Shutting down???

:lmao

Oh... you were serious?

:lmao

I wouldn't consider defending a guy who took a bad shot with 5 seconds on the clock to be shutting down a player in crunch time on the game's biggest stage. He just happened to be defending him on a last-second shot, which is much more often missed than made by most NBA players.

[leemajors]

Shutting down???

:lmao

Oh... you were serious?

:lmao

I wouldn't consider defending a guy who took a bad shot with 5 seconds on the clock to be shutting down a player in crunch time on the game's biggest stage. He just happened to be defending him on a last-second shot, which is much more often missed than made by most NBA players.
switching parker and bowen onto hamilton and billups was a key to winning that game. it was more than just a few possessions and threw the pistons off, allowing san antonio to win the game. if i remember correctly, it was most of the 4th quarter in game 7.

[Holt's Cat]

Shutting down???

I wouldn't consider defending a guy who took a bad shot with 5 seconds on the clock to be shutting down a player in crunch time on the game's biggest stage. He just happened to be defending him on a last-second shot, which is much more often missed than made by most NBA players.

Well, it was one example. Parker is a good defender. I wouldn't expect a Mav fan to be able to figure that out.

[Findog]

Well, it was one example. Parker is a good defender. I wouldn't expect a Mav fan to be able to figure that out.

Nor would I expect a Spurs troll to admit all of their players aren't on loan from God.

[Holt's Cat]

Nor would I expect a Spurs troll to admit all of their players aren't on loan from God.

Sorry, you're the only troll around here. Well, other than your latent buddy.

[Holt's Cat]

I guess I need to starting posting gems like 'DeVIn hArRiS iS lIkE, OMG, sO GoOD.'

[Shank]

Spursdynasty > Holt's Cat

[Holt's Cat]

Sure, for you. That's someone you can might have a chance of surpassing in intellect.

[Findog]

Sorry, you're the only troll around here. Well, other than your latent buddy.

That's right, I'm a troll solely because my team is the Mavericks and I'm posting on a Spurs board. You didn't post a sarcastic "Official Mavs validation" thread after the game and whine like a crybaby bitch over a game that means one game in the standings and nothing more.

[Findog]

I guess I need to starting posting gems like 'DeVIn hArRiS iS lIkE, OMG, sO GoOD.''

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2068230&postcount=136

That would make you the only one.

[Holt's Cat]

That's right, I'm a troll solely because my team is the Mavericks and I'm posting on a Spurs board. You didn't post a sarcastic "Official Mavs validation" thread after the game and whine like a crybaby bitch over a game that means one game in the standings and nothing more.

Sure, I'm sarcastic and Mav fans are an easy target. Especially when they troll after a regular season game.

[timvp]

Yet...

Coherence...what can it do for you?

Uh no...that is an exception to that series, which is why you hammer on it.

Not to mention that's Barry's worst playoff game ever...not to be confused with a typical Matt Bonner performance under pressure.

Basically Barry didn't get played more than a couple of minutes at a time till Manu fouled out...and that was like the first time he touched the ball in the entire series as any other than a spot up shooter.

Because Barry got to be a bigger part of the offense....and didn't get his minutes he spurts, he got lengthy PT...with the best players on the team.

No...I'm saying being used as a viable part of the offense and getting a substantial chunk of minutes is being a bigger part of the team, and the game, than being isolated on an island and being substituted in and out for every 30 seconds.

It's really not that hard to figure out....hence why I bitch about Barry's minutes and usage when he gets 20 plus minutes of PT, and not when he gets 14.

You have definite bias against Barry...you have from day 1, and you also seem to not pay a whole lot of attention to how and when he is used. You tend act like he either shows up or he doesn't...and I promise you, that's not all on him...it's definitely got a lot to do with the way Pop uses him.

I'm sorry you don't see it...but the important thing is that Pop does...finally.Wow. I don't even think you believe what you're saying.

You do lose some points for not remembering about your "Barry hit his standstill threes because he was playing point guard but only I saw it" take until I reminded you of it.

[Shank]

Sure, for you. That's someone you can might have a chance of surpassing in intellect.

Um...what?

[Findog]

Sure, for you. That's someone you can might have a chance of surpassing in intellect.

Modify your syntax, Motherfucker.

[stretch]

Um...what?
Haha, I was wondering the same thing

[stretch]

Modify your syntax, Motherfucker.
:lmao

[Findog]

Sure, I'm sarcastic and Mav fans are an easy target. Especially when they troll after a regular season game.

If I could characterize the reaction to this game, from Mav fan side, with few exceptions, it's nice to beat the Spurs, but the real test comes in May. From Spur fan side, with few exceptions, the sky is falling and our team sucks.

[Holt's Cat]

If I could characterize the reaction to this game, from Mav fan side, with few exceptions, it's nice to beat the Spurs, but the real test comes in May. From Spur fan side, with few exception, the sky is falling and our team sucks.

If it doesn't matter, why are you here?

[Holt's Cat]

Modify your syntax, Motherfucker.

Go fuck yourself then.

[Findog]

If it doesn't matter, why are you here?

Because aside from a few douches such as yourself, it's an active and well-run board where fans of all teams are welcome. If you want an echo chamber, go to Spursreport.

[Findog]

:lmao

We have a new catchphrase to rival Capitalize your O, motherfucker.

[Holt's Cat]

Because aside from a few douches such as yourself, it's an active and well-run board where fans of all teams are welcome. If you want an echo chamber, go to Spursreport.

I don't need an echo chamber. It's too easy kicking trolls like yourself around.

[Findog]

I don't need an echo chamber. It's too easy kicking trolls like yourself around.

Modify your syntax, Motherfucker.

[DubMcDub]

I don't need an echo chamber. It's too easy kicking trolls like yourself around.

Your obsession with championship-less "Mavfan" is humorously noted.

[Holt's Cat]

Obsession? You are the ones hanging on the forum of a team that's not even your favorite.


Post Count: 976

[DubMcDub]

Obsession? You are the ones hanging on the forum of a team that's not even your favorite.

I've got a good reason to be here. The Spurs are the current model to be emulated. I like to hear what the fans of the 4 championship team have to say on various basketball issues, Mavericks and otherwise.

You, on the other hand, are a fan of said 4 championship dynasty and still lack the security in your team to not reply to every post one of us poor little Mavfans makes. :lol

[Holt's Cat]

Nah, I just reply because it's not hard to get your panties in a wad.

[DubMcDub]

Nah, I just reply because it's not hard to get your panties in a wad.

Bait, line, and sinker. :lol :lol :lol At least make an attempt not to play so readily in "Mavfan"'s hands?

Note: This post is a test....

[Holt's Cat]

http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2007/06/14/spurs-topper.jpg

[wildchild]

Sorry, the problem isn't if Tony is an answer for Terry, Oberto is an answer for Dirk, Manu/Finley...

My main worry is that Pop outlines the game and then can't find the solutions, the Mavs systems giving him a lot of troubles. Our rotations isn't working, at wort we missed all positions and we were out of rhythm. It sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Pop made bad decisions, if he goes on like that we'll pay dearly for it.

I think the chances of us wining are slim while Pop isn't in control the game.

[SenorSpur]

To my mind, Finley should be replaced by Udoka in the starting line up. Udoka doesn't yet know the system, but now is the time to give him minutes to learn it. Finley just looks lousy on both ends.

Against the Mavs, the Spurs need more scoring. In the playoffs, I'd rather see Darius Washington than Vaughn. Washington needs more minutes so that he can be up to par in post season.

Finally, I wonder if the Spurs would consider offering the Cavs (who are now without a completely unproductive Larry Hughes) Barry and a 2nd round pick in a sign and trade for Sideshow Bob at the MLE for the remainder of the season. Varejao could defend Nowitski and provide rebounding, energy, high screens and defense. With Udoka in the fold, we could get along without Barry and would add a piece that could be invaluable in the Spring. Another player to consider is Trevor Ariza. Ariza is not playing in Orlando and has the length, vertical hops and athleticism to agitate Nowitski or slow down Jason Terry. Ariza also has an expiring deal so if it doesn't work out it doesn't cause long term problems. I'd be willing to give up a late first round pick for Ariza. He's as good as anyone we would draft at 28 anyway.

Everybody knows that Finley is a one-trick pony. If his shot is falling, he has virtually no value on the court and should be benched. Pop tends to stick with him far too long in games like this.

I agree with the suggestion of giving minutes to Udoka. If nothing else he could help slow down the Mavs potent offensive weapons. Barry showed up big, but of course he's a revolving turnstile on defense.

Ah Trevor Ariza. His possible acquisition has been mentioned in a couple of other threads. I know the Spurs have considered him before, but I think a potential trade is a long shot. They seem content on mainitaining Barry's expiring contract for now. Though I believe he would be an intriguing acquisition.

[callo1]

Holy hell, this thread is still going on?

It was a regular season game get over it. I honestly don't care if we win a single game against Dallas in the regular season. The playoffs are what matters.

Let the Mav fans have another regular season championship celebration like they had last year. BTW, how was that parade last year, and the year before Mav fan? :lol

[stretch]

Let the Mav fans have another regular season championship celebration like they had last year. BTW, how was that parade last year, and the year before Mav fan? :lol
It was quite good. We had hot dogs, cheetoes, and ice cream.

[elec99]

This comes a little late but will post anyway.

I always wondered what cards Pop was gonna pull out against the mavs during the playoffs, but thanks to Golden State we won't have to until this Playoffs 2008, assuming we meet. But Pop won't reveal any secrets, if any, during the regular season. He'll drop 1-3 against a team during the season if he has to, not that this loss was intentional. Meaning, he'll try out different plays, and study the opponent at a risk of losing the game.

Despite what others think, I did see promise of Oberto against Nowitzki, and it wasn't the first time. I saw it last season too, but again, didn't get a chance in the playoffs to use it. Oberto, if he can get the step, is faster, and can get the easy layup plus it makes Dirk work on D and possibly pick up fouls.

And don't blame the Mavs trolls. We'd do the same thing to them if they had 4 trophies! :lol

[SenorSpur]

Holy hell, this thread is still going on?

It was a regular season game get over it. I honestly don't care if we win a single game against Dallas in the regular season. The playoffs are what matters.

Let the Mav fans have another regular season championship celebration like they had last year. BTW, how was that parade last year, and the year before Mav fan? :lol

Don't give me that shit about this is simply a matter of the Spurs not caring enough to win these games. This doesn't have have anything to do with a regular season championship. It's about expressing a real concern on a formidable opponent, who presents matchups problems that the Spurs and their coaching staff haven't solved for the past 2 years.

Anyone who can't see the matchup deficiencies the Spurs have versus the Mavs is blind. During the 2006 regular season, the Mavs presented simliar trouble for ths Spurs. Many on this forum simply "poo-pooed" them away saying "it'll be different when the playoffs start". Then what happened? The playoffs started and the Spurs had trouble stopping Bonzi Wells. And of course after squeaking by the Queens in a hard-fought series, the Spurs ultimately found themselves down in a 3-1 hole versus their in-state rival.

Look at the bigger picture. The game last week reminds us all that nothing has changed since the 2006 WCSF. It's a microcosm of what we can expect when the playoffs start. The Mavs present a serious matchup threat to the Spurs.

These teams know each other too well for their to be any magical secrets between them. Also, there isn't some mysterious "switch" the Spurs are going to push that will solve these matchup issues. My concern, is the Spurs haven't done enough to resolve these issues - especially their long-criticized age and lack of quickness at the wing positions.

[SenorSpur]

This comes a little late but will post anyway.

I always wondered what cards Pop was gonna pull out against the mavs during the playoffs, but thanks to Golden State we won't have to until this Playoffs 2008, assuming we meet. But Pop won't reveal any secrets, if any, during the regular season. He'll drop 1-3 against a team during the season if he has to, not that this loss was intentional. Meaning, he'll try out different plays, and study the opponent at a risk of losing the game.

Despite what others think, I did see promise of Oberto against Nowitzki, and it wasn't the first time. I saw it last season too, but again, didn't get a chance in the playoffs to use it. Oberto, if he can get the step, is faster, and can get the easy layup plus it makes Dirk work on D and possibly pick up fouls.

And don't blame the Mavs trolls. We'd do the same thing to them if they had 4 trophies! :lol

Unlike GS, Pop doesn't have a lot of options. What is he going to do? Run 4 smalls out there who possess the quickness, shooting ability and athleticism of the Warriors? The Spurs don't have enough of those types of players. Recall that Pop resorted to small ball during the 2006 WCSF series. Sure they dug themselves out of a 3-1 hole to get back into the series and force a game 7. However, the question is can Pop produce a strategy that will be successful shutting down the horde of perimeter players the Mavs have? Can he create any matchup advantages of his own? I think the cupboard is limited.

[DubMcDub]

This comes a little late but will post anyway.

I always wondered what cards Pop was gonna pull out against the mavs during the playoffs, but thanks to Golden State we won't have to until this Playoffs 2008, assuming we meet. But Pop won't reveal any secrets, if any, during the regular season. He'll drop 1-3 against a team during the season if he has to, not that this loss was intentional. Meaning, he'll try out different plays, and study the opponent at a risk of losing the game.

Despite what others think, I did see promise of Oberto against Nowitzki, and it wasn't the first time. I saw it last season too, but again, didn't get a chance in the playoffs to use it. Oberto, if he can get the step, is faster, and can get the easy layup plus it makes Dirk work on D and possibly pick up fouls.

And don't blame the Mavs trolls. We'd do the same thing to them if they had 4 trophies! :lol

The best writers in the world can't create comedy like this. Absolutely, undeniably classic. :lol

[wildchild]

The best writers in the world can't create comedy like this. Absolutely, undeniably classic. :lol

You'd better believe that. Could bet your ass! without a doubt.
Oberto in playoffs>>>>>Oberto in the regular season.

[smeagol]

So, how does it feel winning 67 games and going fishing in the first round?

[wildchild]

So, how does it feel winning 67 games and going fishing in the first round?

Well, in films, the bad guy usually loses (bad guys= Mav fans crybaby)

TransSequ: dans les films, les méchants perdent presque toujours.

[jack0fspeed]

It's early season, but here were my observations:

First, Josh Howard is officially unguardable this year. He's going to be the biggest difference when/if the Spurs and Mavs play for real.

Second, none of the changes made by either team (Elson, Udoka, Bass, Hassel, Eddie Jones, etc) are going to impact the respective matchup problems. Basically there's still no one that can guard Nowitzki, Duncan, Ginobili, and now ... Josh Howard.

Third Devin Harris outplayed Tony Parker in this game, but my money's on a push for that matchup in the playoffs.

Fourth, Duncan and Dirk phoned this one in. So I think we all know that in the playoffs they are going to touch the ball on just about every possession. That's going to be the biggest difference come playoff time.

Fifth, Stack looks like he's on the downhill side as do Bowen, Finley, and Horry (the last time I saw him). Jason Terry is an x-factor in that he shows up in the playoffs about 50% of the time. Probably one or more of the Spurs would step up and offset whatever Jet does.

Bottom line, the two teams are still pretty even. Still a 7 game series if the Mavs can get to them.