Is Manu Ginobili the Most Underrated Player In the Game?

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

“…and they’ve got Manu Ginobili, who at any given moment can be the best player in the world”

- Bill Walton


“Put Ginobili on another team, and he could easily average 25 points a game. Ginobili is a stud.”

- Charles Barkley


I’ve heard it said that –at the moment- the 6th Man of the Year would be a dead heat between Manu Ginobili and Jason Terry. Well, let’s see…

Terry is averaging 21.8 PPG compared to Manu’s 20.0. However, the difference in minutes played so far this year more than makes up for the minor discrepancy in PPG. And Manu has the statistical edge in assists, steals, rebounds, and blocks. What’s more, anyone who has watched Ginobili play with any regularity will know that his game cannot be fully measured by numbers. He has a special knack for being in the right place at the right time, putting opposing players in foul trouble, and coming through in the clutch. Defensively, the edge definitely belongs to #20.

Jason Terry can put the ball in the basket with the best of them. But there are so many ways Manu can impact a game. Here are few Ginobili line scores this season:

19 points / 7 assists / 9 rebounds / 1 block / 1 steal

25 points / 7 assists / 9 rebounds / 3 steals

14 points / 2 assists / 10 rebounds / 1 block / 1 steal

25 points / 7 assists / 7 rebounds/ 1 steal

23 points / 2 assists / 2 rebounds / 5 steals

Buck Harvey reported the other day: “ in just the fourth quarters of the last road games in each of the Phoenix, Utah and Cleveland series last season, he averaged about 15 points.”

Ginobili is an animal. He’s omnipresent on the floor. How the Spurs can still have the reputation of being a “boring” team to watch with Manu out there (and Tony Parker doing his thing in the lane) is beyond me. What I know for sure is this…

Without question, Manu Ginobili is the most underrated player in the game. If not, who is??

[TradeParker4Nash]

No. And I disagree with Walton and Barkley. The NBA's pace in games is rapidly getting faster and faster in which Manu can't keep up with. Trade him for Kobe and Parker for Nash and we are set for the next 10 years. :smokin

[Spaceman Spiff]

Underrated in terms of him being a superstar and not being recognized as such.

There are other really great players that most fans couldn't even recognize on the street....Jose Calderon comes to mind. David West is pretty good but nobody cares.

But in terms of a star player, Manu tops the list.

[timmy21_4rings]

good time to sell our stocks - Manu and Parker and buy another - Kobe + someone in laker

[lefty]

Underrated in terms of him being a superstar and not being recognized as such.

There are other really great players that most fans couldn't even recognize on the street....Jose Calderon comes to mind. David West is pretty good but nobody cares.

But in terms of a star player, Manu tops the list.

+1 on Calderon

[Russ]

He's Havlicek reincarnated. He is so underrated it's hard to comprehend. Ginobili is the number one warrior in the NBA and he's the heart and soul of the Spurs, period.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

No. And I disagree with Walton and Barkley. The NBA's pace in games is rapidly getting faster and faster in which Manu can't keep up with. Trade him for Kobe and Parker for Nash and we are set for the next 10 years. :smokin

First of all, as good as Manu is, the Lakers would not trade Kobe straight up for Manu.

And trade 25 year-old Tony Parker for 33 year-old Steve Nash... yeah, that's a great idea!!!!!! :drunk

[timvp]

People who know the game know Ginobili is a great player, even before this early season explosion. It's tough to be considered underrated when you were a Hall of Fame lock before the age of 30, you are one of the top 20 to 30 most recognizable players in the league and currently even the national media is saying you are playing better than anyone on the Spurs.

I know people want to think that the Spurs are always getting the short end of the stick but how much more "rated" do you want Ginobili to be? He could very well be playing better basketball than anyone in the world right now, however even if that is the case he's getting plenty of recognition.

[hitmanyr2k]

People who know the game know Ginobili is a great player, even before this early season explosion. It's tough to be considered underrated when you were a Hall of Fame lock before the age of 30, you are one of the top 20 to 30 most recognizable players in the league and currently even the national media is saying you are playing better than anyone on the Spurs.

I know people want to think that the Spurs are always getting the short end of the stick but how much more "rated" do you want Ginobili to be? He could very well be playing better basketball than anyone in the world right now, however even if that is the case he's getting plenty of recognition.

I happen to think Ginobili should be in the Hall of Fame when his career is over but I'm not so sure he's a "lock" at this point. Another ring while being a big contributor will probably seal the deal though.

[remingtonbo2001]

You know what Ginobili is?

What Grant Hill should have been.

[timvp]

I happen to think Ginobili should be in the Hall of Fame when his career is over but I'm not so sure he's a "lock" at this point. Another ring while being a big contributor will probably seal the deal though.Manu could have retired in July of 2005 and would have likely been a first ballot Hall of Famer.

[ShoogarBear]

underratedYou keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Eh, in Manu's case it's relative. He's pretty much a golden boy to Spurs fans, while outside of the San Antonio fan circle, to other fans Manu either gets overlooked and/or stereotyped as a flopper while his stats understate his star caliber status and unique game.



You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

If anything I guess you can argue about mainstream fan recognition.
He gets a few comments from the Barkleys and Walton. But no one takes Walton seriously, and Barkley comes off a homer. So as far as being a recognized mainstream player? A la the Vince Carters. Manu is probably less recognized than Tim Duncan, and Tony Parker I've noticed.
Some of my friends who aren't fans of San Antonio, just know him as that annoying guy with an "unorthodox" game, and don't even recognize his impact as being a huge reason WHY the Spurs keep winning games.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

When then I guess you'll have to start by telling me what I think it means. What do I think it means?

[Holt's Cat]

The knock on Manu, and it's a fair one, is that on average he plays less than 30 minutes a night.

Still, when you think about the players in the NBA who you'd want to have the ball in their hands with a championship on the line, there are few who you would choose over Manu.

[Brutalis]

No he is not underrated.

He used to be.

He has the experience from playoffs and big time games all around the world, and is now peaking. Other squads do not take him lightly at all.

[E20]

Eh, in Manu's case it's relative. He's pretty much a golden boy to Spurs fans, while outside of the San Antonio fan circle, to other fans Manu either gets overlooked and/or stereotyped as a flopper while his stats understate his star caliber status and unique game.

That's pretty much what it is around here (CA) and probably everywhere else outside of San Antonio. Every one I know who follows basketball that is not a Spurs fan think he just flops his way to the FT line for points. Outside of SA Media and Bill Walton and Chuck (Who nobody takes seriously)

[ShoogarBear]

When then I guess you'll have to start by telling me what I think it means. What do I think it means?Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die

Was his name Inigo?? I can never remember anything other than "Montoya" (and the part about killing his father of course).

[Dex]

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die

Inconcievable!!

[lefty]

He's Havlicek reincarnated. He is so underrated it's hard to comprehend. Ginobili is the number one warrior in the NBA and he's the heart and soul of the Spurs, period.

I've always thought Manu was similar to Havlicek, with a bit of Westphal in him (for the sick passing and shots)

[spurastic]

No. And I disagree with Walton and Barkley. The NBA's pace in games is rapidly getting faster and faster in which Manu can't keep up with. Trade him for Kobe and Parker for Nash and we are set for the next 10 years. :smokin


idiot

[Kermit]

“…and they’ve got Manu Ginobili, who at any given moment can be the best player in the world”

- Bill Walton


“Put Ginobili on another team, and he could easily average 25 points a game. Ginobili is a stud.”

- Charles Barkley




Underrate: to rate to low, to undervalue

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This thread delivers in a big way. After looking at the facts I have to agree Manu is the most underrated start of the NBA.

Maybe for those of you who live in SA, this comes out as odd, but I live in Atlanta and almost no one who likes basketball talks about him and when they do its always about that weird guy who flops and comes from Europe. We don't have signs in the street with his picture or the TV.

Most of his fame comes from Barkley and his GINOBILI and Walton who despite people laughing at him I think he is one of the best guys at what he does. He typically talks about stuff that people don't care about, but that's mostly out of ignorance.

If you go around and ask people who are in this business what do they know about Ginobili other than he being a rather "good" player and flopper they wold probably tell you he won the gold medal in the last olympics and has some rings with the Spurs. Actually he is the only player ever to win the gold medal, a ring with the NBA and an Euroleague which is the second best tournament after the NBA. No other player alive or dead has achieved this and it's very likely no one else ever will.

In addition to those 3 titles above, he has 6 more. He has been awarded 13 awards during his career.

It's just a shame that underachievers like Karl had tried to diminish his person and kill his character because he had no way to stop the guy on the court. From then on, he just became a flopper. Repeat a lie a thousand times and it will become true. Nazis employeed that method.

When I turn 90 years old, I will ask my grandchild to watch some videos with me and I will show him a compact of Manu's plays during his career and will say to him: "now I'm gonna show you a video of one of the greatest players ever to play basketball"

[Bruno]

Bowen is the most underrated Spurs.

[bdictjames]

Today, I don't think so. People are taking Ginobili seriously as a potential MVP and a Sixth Man awardee.

He was underrated last year though, I can say that.

[duncan228]

Bowen is the most underrated Spurs.

:tu

[Martin R]

This is the reason why, after Manu retires, NBA will homologate a new stat called MANUS. This stat will count those intangible plays Manu does.

FG, FA, FT, 3pt%, Assists, Rebounds, Manus.....

[hitmanyr2k]

Bowen is the most underrated Spurs.

Not really. Bowen CONSTANTLY gets props as being the best defender in the league. When they call you the best at a major aspect of the game you're not being underrated.

[hitmanyr2k]

Manu could have retired in July of 2005 and would have likely been a first ballot Hall of Famer.

First ballot? Seriously? I know Ginobili had a great international career before even coming to the NBA but I don't know if that's enough for first ballot or even second. Give me a good comparison of someone that's already in the Hall with a resume similar to Ginobili's.

[Supreme_Being]

Bowen is the most underrated Spurs.

Agree'd

[bonesinaz]

Manu is not under rated in AZ. The fans hate him here, because they fear him. Any time a player generates that much hate ( I've talked to people here who actually want him to drop dead) they understand what a great player he is.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

First ballot? Seriously? I know Ginobili had a great international career before even coming to the NBA but I don't know if that's enough for first ballot or even second. Give me a good comparison of someone that's already in the Hall with a resume similar to Ginobili's.


I'm telling you this guy is protected from up on high by the Prince of fucking Darkness. As far as comparison, sir I thumb my nose at you, because I can't think of any mortal man whose accomplished what he has accomplished without selling his soul to the devil. He is Keyser Soze.

[SpursIndonesia]

Bowen is the most underrated Spurs.

True dat, the guy has been snubbed by the media/league undeservedly for the last few yrs, when it comes to winning the DPOY title. :rolleyes

And he's snubbed by bandwagoner Spurs fans who can't appreciate his defensive role in this team.
:pctoss

[biba]

Underrated?


Ginobili's super as a sub for the Spurs

By TOM ENLUND [email protected]
Posted: Nov. 17, 2007

Center Andrew Bogut had one question in mind after the Milwaukee Bucks had gotten clobbered by the San Antonio Spurs last week.

"What did (Manu) Ginobili shoot . . . 100%?" said Bogut.

No, Ginobili didn't make every one of his shots against the Bucks, it only seemed that way.

Actually, Ginobili made 6 of 9 shots against Milwaukee, including 3 three-pointers, and all six of his free throws for a team-high 21 points. He broke the game open by scoring 18 points in 11 first-half minutes.

"He came off the bench and gave a great spark for them," said Bogut. "He was the one that broke the game. It was a 10-point game and he came in and made it 25 in a matter of minutes. In three or four minutes he just blew the game open."

Funny thing about Ginobili, though, he's been doing that to a lot of teams this season in leading San Antonio to seven victories in their first nine games. Even in last week's loss to Dallas, Ginobili was one of the team's few bright spots, finishing with 25 points, nine rebounds, and seven assists. Through the first nine games, Ginobili was averaging a team-high 20.1 points, 5.3 rebounds, and 4.9 assists.

And, he's doing his damage off the bench, which means that coach Gregg Popovich is once again facing that annual question:

Why not start Ginobili?

Former University of Wisconsin star Michael Finley starts at shooting guard for the Spurs and some think that starting Ginobili would provide San Antonio with a bit more offensive punch. Popovich, though, doesn't want to sacrifice the spark that Ginobili provides off the bench. After all, Ginobili came off the bench throughout last season's playoffs and that worked out pretty well for San Antonio.

"It gives us a longer bench, it gives us energy," said Popovich. "When Tim (Duncan) and Tony (Parker) are off the court, it's good to have Manu on the court. It makes us all better."

Said Bogut, "To his credit, he's doing a good job and not complaining that he's coming of the bench because he could be a starter for any other team in the NBA. He's doing a great job for them."

Ginobili's spirited play so far is being credited to a summer of relative inactivity. He was not involved with the Argentine national team last summer and didn't touch a basketball in July and August.

With Ginobili leading the way, there already have been indications that San Antonio's bench could be even better than it was last season when it was the best, statistically, in the league. Popovich has the enviable problem of trying to figure out how to divide up the minutes and in some games he's played 11 or 12 players.

Bucks coach Larry Krystkowiak pointed out that it's virtually impossible to zero in on Ginobili or any of the other Spurs defensively because they have so many weapons.

"When you look at the top 30 scorers in the NBA, you don't see anybody from San Antonio," he said. "It's a real balanced attack with all of those guys . . . different people being on each night. I think there's something to be said for that."

Said Popovich, "They coach each other more than I coach them. It's always a good situation when you get to that point."


Scout's honor
Even though he claims to be computer illiterate, Popovich admits to trying to keep tabs on the Kobe Bryant trade rumors. He asks the team's front office staff if the Spurs have been mentioned in any of the rumors and is told every day that they have not. Popovich isn't surprised.

"People just have this image of us," he said. "We're pigeon-holed, like we wouldn't bring anybody in who smacked of any sort of controversy whatsoever. They all have to have their 4-H and their Boy Scout badge before they can come and prove that their house is green and they recycle or we wouldn't dare bring them into San Antonio."

POWER RANKINGS
Last week
1. San Antonio Spurs 1
Ginobili thrives as super-sub.
2. Boston Celtics 5
Big Three finding a groove.
3. Dallas Mavericks 3
Harris wins battle with Spurs' Parker.
4. Detroit Pistons 4
Murray starts with Billups out.
5. Utah Jazz 6
Defense puts clamps on Raptors.
6. Houston Rockets 2
McGrady injury not too serious.
7. New Orleans Hornets 7
Great start, but is anyone watching?
8. Orlando Magic 10
Howard has monster game in Cleveland.
9. Phoenix Suns 11
Barbosa simply a blur.
10. Denver Nuggets 13
Karl gives Wilks a chance.
11. Los Angeles Lakers 10
Kobe set to face Bucks this time.
12. Los Angeles Clippers 8
Kaman doubles fun vs. Knicks.
13. New Jersey Nets 9
Carter injury clearly hurts.
14. Toronto Raptors 19
Moon makes most of starting role.
15. Cleveland Cavaliers 14
LeBron can't do it all, can he?
Last week

16. Milwaukee Bucks 16
Mo drops 12 dimes on Grizzlies.
17. Atlanta Hawks 17
Williams finding way in third year.
18. Portland Trail Blazers 27
Young team plays well at home.
19. Charlotte Bobcats 23
Richardson brings 3-point threat.
20. Washington Wizards 26
Ending 10-game home losing streak.
21. Memphis Grizzlies 22
Gay shows a versatile game.
22. Philadelphia 76ers 21
Iguodala 2 for 15 vs. Hornets.
23. Chicago Bulls 18
No joking on this circus trip.
24. Indiana Pacers 15
Crashing back to reality.
25. Sacramento Kings 25
Miller's return helps cause.
26. New York Knicks 20
Marbury adds to soap opera.
27. Minnesota Timberwolves 29
McCants leads way to first victory.
28. Seattle SuperSonics 30
Durant finds a 'W' in Miami.
29. Miami Heat 24
Riley rants over horrible start.
30. Golden State Warriors 28
Jackson's return much needed.

[howbouthemspurs]

Ginobili is playing amazingly.. He could be an MVP player if he wanted to and if POP would let him.

[mabber]

I certainly don't think he's underrated. I think the Spurs go nowhere w/o him. While I'm a big fan of Jason Terry, he is not at the same level as Ginobli. I think Ginobli is EASILY the player the Mavs fear the most on the Spurs. They certainly voice their concerns about him much more than the other players. He's definitely who I fear the most as Duncan is going to be Duncan and get his. Harris does a decent enough job slowing down Parker but no one seems to be able to handle Ginobli.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Today, I don't think so. People are taking Ginobili seriously as a potential MVP and a Sixth Man awardee.

He was underrated last year though, I can say that.

Manu is getting more recognition this year than in years past... but overall, the media has never given Manu his due.

People who don't watch Ginobili play on a regular basis have no idea what kind of impact the guy has on the game. Even though -as Barkley pointed out- Mabu could easily be a 25 PPG player... you can't sum up his worth merely in PPG, which is all most fans and media seem to want to measure a star player by. Just as total number of blocks and rebounds seem to be the only thing people look at for DPOY.

OutOfTownSpursFan brings up a good point. It may be difficult for people in San Antonio to realize how few casual NBA fans oustide of SA even know Manu Ginobili's name.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

This is the reason why, after Manu retires, NBA will homologate a new stat called MANUS. This stat will count those intangible plays Manu does.

FG, FA, FT, 3pt%, Assists, Rebounds, Manus.....

I REALLY want to see a stat on number of fouls drawn by a player. Does that stat exist somewhere???

That's a HUGE part of Ginobili's game (putting the other team in foul trouble). And it doesn't have anything to do with "flopping". It's the way he moves in the lane... he just gets fouled as much as anyone with the rock in his hands.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Bowen is the most underrated Spurs.

Yeah, a case could certainly be made for Bowen being the most underrated. I think it's a travesty that Bowen still hasn't been awarded DPOY honors. Again... proof of stat fixation on the part of the media. Blocks and rebounds are apparently the only thing that matters when considering candidates for this award (with the exception of the one recent year they gave the award to Artest... what a joke).