Mike Monroe: Duncan is taken out by 'idiots'

[timmy21_4rings]

Mike Monroe: Duncan is taken out by 'idiots'

Web Posted: 11/18/2007 12:09 AM CST

Mike Monroe
Express-News Staff Writer

NBA fans have voted Tim Duncan a starting forward for the Western Conference All-Star team each of the past nine seasons, but Duncan won't be a starting forward in the 2008 game in New Orleans.

This year he is one of 12 centers for whom fans can vote for on the official All-Star ballot, which is available at league games or online.

What band of idiots decided to change Duncan's All-Star position after 10 years as a forward?

Let's see ... that would be the media panel of USA Today's David Dupree, the Chicago Tribune's Sam Smith, TNT's Ernie Johnson, Sports Illustrated's Jack McCallum, the Charlotte Observer's Rick Bonnell (president of the Professional Basketball Writers Association), ESPN the Magazine's Ric Bucher and some guy from the San Antonio Express-News.

Yes, I was one of the idiots.

The decision to switch Duncan's position was not made out of malice.

It grew out of the NBA's mandate that the committee put 12 centers, 24 guards and 24 forwards per conference on the ballot. Some of us who have served on the committee numerous times know that deserving forwards always get left off the ballot, in part because we have to accommodate a league requirement that each team has at least two players on the ballot but mostly because there aren't 12 deserving centers in the entire league, let alone in each conference.

Thus, at the outset of the conference call on which these decisions were made, Smith made a plea that we exclude such centers as Primoz Brezec, Nazr Mohammed, Mark Blount and Francisco Elson, all of whom were on the ballot last year. Instead, he argued, two-way players like Amare Stoudemire, Emeka Okafor, Pau Gasol and Duncan should be on the ballot as centers, instead of forwards.

Duncan, after all, recently was named both the best power forward and the best center by the league's GMs.

This seemed like a good solution at the time. In retrospect, it was unfair, specifically to Duncan.

The problem is Internet voting. Yao Ming is so popular in China — population 1.3 billion — that he has been the leading vote-getter each season. Thus, it is presumed that Duncan won't be voted to the starting lineup this time around.

Duncan says he couldn't care less about the position shift. In truth, he always has been very proud of being voted a starter. He has a right to be plenty steamed at the seven idiots who changed his position, especially that guy from the Express-News.

The real solution is for the NBA to amend its ballot. Fewer centers; more forwards and guards. That would satisfy Duncan. The seven idiots would like it, too.

Source:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/basketball/nba/spurs/stories/MYSA111807.NBA_analysis_story_1118.en.234ff6e.html

[some_user86]

You beat me to it! Ha

[some_user86]

Oh, cool. My other redundant thread got deleted.

[timmy21_4rings]

If a forward can not find a place among 24 forwards, why do you try to accommodate him? Anyway he is not going to be selected by fans. The stupidest solution proposed by a stupid person and accepted by the stupidest persons (6 of them) in the panel.

If Mike Monroe really regrets, he should resign from the selection panel (my opinion).

[MaNuMaNiAc]

at least he got one thing right... they are all idiots

[mavs>spurs2]

Duncan really IS a center..

[bdictjames]

Then they should take out other undeserving forwards. And put on some centers.

Come to think of it, Yao was never exciting in the All-Star game. He doesn't even get minutes. Chinese are lame.

[some_user86]

Duncan really IS a center..

It's better to say that Duncan blends the line between center and power forward. Duncan guards both power forwards and centers from situation to situation. He's a freak, and he doesn't fit in either of the traditional definitions.

[E20]

It's better to say that Duncan blends the line between center and power forward. Duncan guards both power forwards and centers from situation to situation. He's a freak, and he doesn't fit in either of the traditional definitions.
So they should just have an all-star event where Tim just plays one on one with himself.

[some_user86]

Well, then they should simply rely on the definition he's been listed as since he entered the NBA 11 years ago and the one that he's still listed with today.

[mystargtr34]

Duncan really IS a center..

And Dirk really is a shooting guard... but hes been listed as a Forward his entire career because of his height and he grabs a couple more rebounds than a shooting guard normally does.

Not many C's can step out to 18 feet and shoot the J

[ShoogarBear]

Dirk shouldn't be a forward. All of his shots are outside, he should be listed as a guard.

[ShoogarBear]

Eh, beat me to it.

[alamo50]

Damn Mike "no balls" Monroe, you just made me go Buck "lame ass" Harvey on you!

[K-State Spur]

Duncan really IS a center..

Duncan certainly plays some center for stretches (sometimes long ones).

But if he's a center, what does that make Oberto/Elson? They're certainly not PFs.

[raspsa]

The NBA should simply do away with its arbitrary mandate to have so many candidates per position.. quality should override quantity.. if there are only 3 centers to select from, so be it.. no need to put up 12 names w/c is a joke.

[freemeat]

As stupid as Mike Monroe is, at least he provided an explanation!

Why is there a rule that two players from each team be named? There are plenty of teams out there that have no player who deserves to make the team. That's why Duncan got bumped. Because of that rule, there are too many forwards involved.

Oh well, who really cares? If Timmy doesn't give a shit, I don't give a shit.

I think he's already made his mark in the hall of fame.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the selection was already a joke to begin with

with garnett in the east, that open up many chances for the young forward in the west to make the roster

now if they cant even get selected into the team then the selection is fail, yes.

[WALDO]

Since there are really not that many true centers in the NBA anymore, I think logical idea is to change the categories. Big Men (2) Wing Men (2) and Point Guard (1)
The Center and Power Forward positions are almost interchangable as well as shooting guard and small forward postions so this idea really makes the most sense.

[ploto]

http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS12C.HTM

Enough said.

[Rummpd]

Idiotic decision by a collection of men who should know better. The explanation does not satisfy the decison.

[some_user86]

http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS12C.HTM

Enough said.

How did they determine this?

[da_suns_fan__]

I CANT BELIEVE SAM SMITH OF THE CHICAGO TRIBUNE IS ON THAT PANEL!!!

That guy has about as much credibility as anyone from Hoopsworld. If you've ever a heard an NBA rumor, chances are its bullshit started by either Sam Smith or Peter Vecsey.

[da_suns_fan__]

http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS12C.HTM

Enough said.

Owned. Nice job.

[SpursFanFirst]

I smell a conspiracy! :lol
But really, were they trying to get Duncan off the starting lineup because of the "boring" label they like to slap on him?

Honestly, I don't even know why this bothers me. I've never even watched an entire All-Star game.

[Matchman]

Then they should take out other undeserving forwards. And put on some centers.

Come to think of it, Yao was never exciting in the All-Star game. He doesn't even get minutes. Chinese are lame.

IMO, Duncan, Nowitzki, Gasol, and Yao are all non-exciting players in the All Star Game, so why single out Yao? :wtf

[bigfan]

Yes, Monroe is an idiot. If he didnt think of this before, his IQ must be about 45.

[Kriz-Maxima]

I lost respect for the all star a while ago, this being decided by fans its bullshit. Duncan is above the all star, everybody knows what he is even if they dont like it.

[tp2021]

Owned. Nice job.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0qe7PGCQvI

owned. good acting, though.

[Bruno]

http://www.82games.com/0708/07SAS12C.HTM

Enough said.

They consider that Duncan is the center when he plays with Oberto. :rolleyes
That's why Duncan plays much more center than PF for them.

[Kriz-Maxima]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0qe7PGCQvI

owned. good acting, though.



I loved the offense/deffense excuse. "He was already off his chair" yeah right.

[Tek_XX]

So can Duncan claim all time best center and power forward.

[da_suns_fan__]

Whats hilarious is how Duncan claims he doesn't want to be limited by the "center" label yet plays like any other center in NBA history.

Plays with his back to the basket? Check.

Go to move is a jump hook? Check.

Can't shoot free throws? Check.

I think it would be crazy to list Dirk or KG as a center, but if Duncan isn't a center, than no one is.

[Supergirl]

Duncan may PLAY like a center, but he has, for HIS ENTIRE CAREER, been listed as a PF and with the exception of in the playoffs against certain teams spends most of the time playing at PF. This has been a very deliberate strategic move by Pop and Duncan, which has among other things, allowed him to avoid foul trouble and getting too banged up.

So, in conclusion: It was really FRICKING RETARDED to change his listing on the All Star ballot after 10 years of being listed as a PF, when he hasn't changed anything in the way he plays or who he plays with.

[sanman53]

Has Timmy said anything about any of this?

[MoSpur]

Has Timmy said anything about any of this?

Duncan - "NBA All Star Balloting is basically retarded."

[timmy21_4rings]

I think it would be crazy to list Dirk or KG as a center, but if Duncan isn't a center, than no one is.

Is Dirk really a PF in your opinion? Shouldn't he be moved to guard?

[timmy21_4rings]

I think it would be crazy to list Dirk or KG as a center, but if Duncan isn't a center, than no one is.

Is Dirk really a PF in your opinion? Shouldn't he be moved to Guard?

[K-State Spur]

Whats hilarious is how Duncan claims he doesn't want to be limited by the "center" label yet plays like any other center in NBA history.

Plays with his back to the basket? Check.

Go to move is a jump hook? Check.

Can't shoot free throws? Check.

I think it would be crazy to list Dirk or KG as a center, but if Duncan isn't a center, than no one is.

has range out to 15 feet? check.

can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop? check.

often starts his offense from just inside the 3 point line by facing up to the hoop? check.

guards opposing 4s as much as he does 5s? check.

sometimes leads the break with his own dribble? check.

not saying that he doesn't see a good amount of time at the '5'. but if he's a true 5, what does that make Elson/Oberto? They sure as hell are not power forwards.

Duncan plays enough of both spots that if the Spurs (and Tim) list him as a Power Forward, that's what he should be listed as.

[da_suns_fan__]

has range out to 15 feet? check.

can put the ball on the floor and drive to the hoop? check.

often starts his offense from just inside the 3 point line by facing up to the hoop? check.

guards opposing 4s as much as he does 5s? check.

sometimes leads the break with his own dribble? check.

not saying that he doesn't see a good amount of time at the '5'. but if he's a true 5, what does that make Elson/Oberto? They sure as hell are not power forwards.

Duncan plays enough of both spots that if the Spurs (and Tim) list him as a Power Forward, that's what he should be listed as.


1) Im trying to remember the last time I saw Tim Duncan lead the break... :lol :lol

2) Takes his man off the dribble? From where? Five feet out?

90% of Duncans game comes from having his back to the basket in the low post. This is why he was so ineffective in the international game.

What does Duncan do that Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, etc. didn't?

Shoots a bank shot?

He's been listed as a PF?

So what? If they list Steve Nash as a center does that make him one? :rolleyes

[wildbill2u]

As stupid as Mike Monroe is, at least he provided an explanation!

Why is there a rule that two players from each team be named? There are plenty of teams out there that have no player who deserves to make the team.
The reason is money and publicity. A team with no 'all-stars' isn't going to get a lot of fan support or TV viewers and that will reduce money for the league.

Also, by giving fans a sayso in the voting, the NBA gets a lot of publicity and public relations in the towns with weak or bad franchises whose fans can be mollified by the fact that their team has some 'all-star' potential players and are motivated to support the team by voting for the players.

It all translates into M-O-N-E-Y!

[K-State Spur]

1) Im trying to remember the last time I saw Tim Duncan lead the break... :lol :lol

2) Takes his man off the dribble? From where? Five feet out?

90% of Duncans game comes from having his back to the basket in the low post. This is why he was so ineffective in the international game.

What does Duncan do that Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Alonzo Mourning, etc. didn't?

Shoots a bank shot?

He's been listed as a PF?

So what? If they list Steve Nash as a center does that make him one? :rolleyes

That explains a lot, you don't watch much of the Spurs obviously.

Duncan will get a rebound a lead a break quite often. Not as often as he used to, but it's not an uncommon occurrence still.

And, as long as he's being guarded by another big, he'll face up and put the ball on floor a few times a game. Shaq doesn't do that, Ewing & Olajuwan never did that, Robinson rarely did that.

Hell, in his early years, Duncan actually played some '3'.

(You still haven't addressed my question of what position Oberto/Elson play?)

I'm not denying that he shares many characteristics with great centers and certainly plays that position more than he did 5 years ago. But to say that he no longer has the game of or plays at the '4' anymore is stupid.

[da_suns_fan__]

That explains a lot, you don't watch much of the Spurs obviously.

Duncan will get a rebound a lead a break quite often. Not as often as he used to, but it's not an uncommon occurrence still.

And, as long as he's being guarded by another big, he'll face up and put the ball on floor a few times a game. Shaq doesn't do that, Ewing & Olajuwan never did that, Robinson rarely did that.

Hell, in his early years, Duncan actually played some '3'.

(You still haven't addressed my question of what position Oberto/Elson play?)

I'm not denying that he shares many characteristics with great centers and certainly plays that position more than he did 5 years ago. But to say that he no longer has the game of or plays at the '4' anymore is stupid.

If you don't think Hakeem faced up his man then you must be very young and actually never saw him play. Same with Ewing. What about Alonzo?


Your logic is horrible. JUST HORRIBLE.

The Suns often play Nash and Barbosa at the same time. Does this mean that Nash is no longer a point guard?

If the Suns had Nash and Kidd and played them at the same time, would either of them fail to be a point guard?

btw - Youve got to be kidding me with the "Duncan leads the break" argument.

This might happen once or twice a SEASON!!! Did you forget who your coach is?!!!

The other great 4s in history were great from 15-20 feet (Malone, Barkley etc.)

http://www.nba.com/hotzones/

Duncan shot 1000 of his 1200 shots within 10 feet of the basket. And thats the only zone where he was effective.

Nope Duncan is definately a center and a PF in name only.

[K-State Spur]

If you don't think Hakeem faced up his man then you must be very young and actually never saw him play. Same with Ewing. What about Alonzo?


Your logic is horrible. JUST HORRIBLE.

The Suns often play Nash and Barbosa at the same time. Does this mean that Nash is no longer a point guard?

If the Suns had Nash and Kidd and played them at the same time, would either of them fail to be a point guard?

btw - Youve got to be kidding me with the "Duncan leads the break" argument.

This might happen once or twice a SEASON!!! Did you forget who your coach is?!!!

The other great 4s in history were great from 15-20 feet (Malone, Barkley etc.)

http://www.nba.com/hotzones/

Duncan shot 1000 of his 1200 shots within 10 feet of the basket. And thats the only zone where he was effective.

Nope Duncan is definately a center and a PF in name only.

a) YES. If the Suns had Nash and Kidd, only one would play the point, the other would be an off guard. When Nash and Barbosa are on the floor at the same time, Barbosa plays the 2.

b) Malone had 20 foot range? He had a more consistent perimeter jumper than Timmy does, but their range is about equal. (And while Barkley did have a lot of makes, his percentages were pretty rough once you got outside of 15 feet.)

c) What about McHale? He's clearly one of the best prototypical 4s in history - but he played with his back to the basket significantly and didn't have range out to 20 feet.

d) You never saw Ewing (and rarely saw Hakeem) dribble between the legs, step back, and shoot a bank shot off the left foot like Tim can.

[da_suns_fan__]

a) YES. If the Suns had Nash and Kidd, only one would play the point, the other would be an off guard. When Nash and Barbosa are on the floor at the same time, Barbosa plays the 2.

b) Malone had 20 foot range? He had a more consistent perimeter jumper than Timmy does, but their range is about equal. (And while Barkley did have a lot of makes, his percentages were pretty rough once you got outside of 15 feet.)

c) What about McHale? He's clearly one of the best prototypical 4s in history - but he played with his back to the basket significantly and didn't have range out to 20 feet.

d) You never saw Ewing (and rarely saw Hakeem) dribble between the legs, step back, and shoot a bank shot off the left foot like Tim can.


I think youre confusing Tim Duncan for Kevin Garnett.

[BeerIsGood!]

Why is there internet balloting? An how come the damn Argies and Frenchies don't put Manu and TP on there 1st every year? Lazy...

[Avitus1]

http://www.ugo.com/versus/images/characters/gallery_Napoleon_Dynamite_1.jpg
IDIOTS!

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Why is there internet balloting? An how come the damn Argies and Frenchies don't put Manu and TP on there 1st every year? Lazy...

because out of the 40 million Argentinians, I'd venture to guess 300,000 or less watch basketball. Of those 300,000 maybe 50,000 bother to vote, and even less bother to vote mutiple times. I know I vote only once.

[milkyway21]

Duncan really IS a center.. Duncan is center for those people who would like the idea of seeing Dirk start at PF in the ASG. :rolleyes KG now in the East so now it's between TD & Dirk

[mavs>spurs2]

I can't believe dasunsfan is actually making sense..and im agreeing with him

Duncan rarely shoots outside, as evidenced above, with over 80% of his attempts being inside 10 feet.

He plays with his back to the basket

Go to move is the turn around jump hook

You will RARELY see him handling the ball

All signs of a center

Not to mention the guy freakin plays most of his minutes at center :dizzy

[timmy21_4rings]

I can't believe dasunsfan is actually making sense..and im agreeing with him

Duncan rarely shoots outside, as evidenced above, with over 80% of his attempts being inside 10 feet.

He plays with his back to the basket

Go to move is the turn around jump hook

You will RARELY see him handling the ball

All signs of a center

Not to mention the guy freakin plays most of his minutes at center :dizzy

Is Dirk really a power forward or a 7 foot guard?

[K-State Spur]

I can't believe dasunsfan is actually making sense..and im agreeing with him

Duncan rarely shoots outside, as evidenced above, with over 80% of his attempts being inside 10 feet.

He plays with his back to the basket

Go to move is the turn around jump hook

You will RARELY see him handling the ball

All signs of a center

Not to mention the guy freakin plays most of his minutes at center :dizzy

also sounds like Kevin McHale, Horace Grant, and Charles Barkley (in the latter stages of his career).

I'm not sure of some of the criteria you guys are using: How many PFs handle the ball? Marc Jackson's entire offensive game was putting his back to the basket, was he a center?

Really, the position is defined by the spots on the floor that a player occupies. Often, with a center and a power forward - these are interchangeable. But make no mistake, when Elson/Oberto are playing alongside him, TD is much more of a 4 than a 5. And that happens enough that the Spurs should get to define his position, not a bunch of media guys - many of whom didn't even play in HS.

[ca®lo]

cant we start an online petition or something? to get him back at PF position.

dunno if the nba will change that though.

[mavs>spurs2]

Is Dirk really a power forward or a 7 foot guard?

What does it matter? Call him what you want

Personally I call him a PF because he averages over 10 rebounds per game and guards the opposing teams power forward most of the time. He just plays the high post as opposed to the low post like Duncan. Either way, I really don't see what it matters, he's a basketball player above all.

[ArgSpursFan.]

Monroe should watch some spurs games and realize that Timmy is being playing the center spot for the last 2 seasons.
It's all good though,I reather have Duncan as Center tham Yao.

[ArgSpursFan.]

What does it matter? Call him what you want

Personally I call him a PF because he averages over 10 rebounds per game and guards the opposing teams power forward most of the time. He just plays the high post as opposed to the low post like Duncan. Either way, I really don't see what it matters, he's a basketball player above all.

Dirk is what we call a Long 3.He can play in the perimeter and also can rebound.
But a SF not a PF, coze He has to play facing the rim to be effective
a PF shoud be a more physical and should be able to use his body in the low post.

[barbacoataco]

This is a pointless debate. On teams with a big PF, or "twin towers", the 4 and 5 position are more or less the same. Duncan has always been listed as a PF, and his game is somewhere in between a traditional center and PF. What's crazy to me is to change his Allstar position now after so many years in the league.

[inconvertible]

if these idioits didn't know that 1.3billion would vote duncan out. then they truly are dumb asses.