Game Thoughts: Spurs vs Magic - Nov. 21

[timvp]

Very nice win by the Spurs. The Orlando Magic are playing as well as anyone in the NBA and the Spurs beat them at their own game. The Magic play a small ball game in which they start a small point guard, a small shooting guard, two tall small forwards and a monster of a power forward. The Spurs matched down and eventually ran away with it.

Sure, the defense was pretty bad. Sometimes it was awful. However, I blame most of that on the small ball lineups the Spurs trotted out there. Pop not playing Francisco Elson until garbage time and not playing Matt Bonner at all showed how dedicated Pop was to small ball. I’m not a small ball fan but against the Magic, I can understand the thinking.

The thing I was most impressed with in the game was the offensive execution. Three turnovers in such a fast-paced game is ridiculously good. The Spurs executed their offense very well throughout and kept executing until the Magic cracked.

-As far as the Magic are concerned, Dwight Howard is going to be beast. I thought he was good coming into this year but I wasn’t sold on the fact that he could be a dominating force in the league. But Howard has a go-to jump hook move that is very impressive and isn’t turning the ball over as much as he used to, so he’s a load offensively. Even more impressive to me was the fact that he plays with a mean streak now. Happy-go-lucky Dwight Howard has been replaced by rip-your-heart-out Dwight Howard. That’s not a good thing for the rest of the league. As far as the other players, Rashard Lewis and Hedo Turkoglu at the forward spots make the team tough to defend. Jameer Nelson is a battler and Keith Bogans is a Spur-like rugged player. Their weakness is their bench is horrible, especially Keyon Dooling. A couple times, Pop drew up isolation plays for whoever Dooling was guarding and Dooling would get destroyed. For his sake, hopefully this was just an off game because he was horrid.

-I was impressed by Tim Duncan in the second half. He had a stretch there where he broke out his playoff form. When he did that, the Spurs were able to blow the game open. He was rebounding really well and had some masterful moves on the low block. Duncan’s passing was good all game and even though Howard had a monster game, I thought Duncan competed well against him.

-Manu Ginobili had another very good game. You know Ginobili is playing well when he surprises no one when he scores 27 points, hands out five assists and pulls down four rebounds. Ginobili also had only one turnover and that turnover was at the very end of the third quarter when the time was expiring. He was roaming away from three-point shooters a tad much but cleaned that up as the game went on. All in all, another fantastic game by Ginobili.

-Tony Parker had a masterful performance. 32 points, nine assists, no turnovers on 14-for-22 shooting is a remarkable line, to say the least. What’s doubly impressive is he started off slow. He was 1-for-5 at one point and 3-for-9 at another point. That means he finished 13-for-17 or 11-for-13, depending on how you want to look at it. The Magic simply couldn’t keep Parker from shredding their defense. On the season, Parker is averaging career-highs in points (20.3) and assists (6.4), while averaging a career-low in turnovers (2.0).

-This was a classic Bruce Bowen game. In the first half, Bowen is put on Rashard Lewis and shuts him down (Lewis was scoreless other than a layup with 12 seconds to go in the first half when Bowen was out of the game). In the first half, Hedo Turkoglu was 6-for-7 with 16 points. Pop switched Bowen onto Turkoglu in the second half and Turkoglu goes 3-for-11 in the second half, while Lewis goes 4-for-7 in the second half without Bowen on him. It was a very good night defensively for Bowen and it really illustrated how great of a defender he is. It’s beyond scary to think of the day when the Spurs don’t have Bowen.

-Fabricio Oberto had another solid outing. He fought Howard on the low block defensively and offensively he was key in freeing up all three of the Big Three to do their work. He set nice picks for Parker, made good passes to Duncan and played his backyard Argentine basketball with Ginobili. Six points, eight rebounds and three assists in 17 minutes is fantastic work by Oberto.

-Michael Finley was helpful in the beginning of the game when the Spurs started off slow. Finley hit two of his first three shots (both three-pointers) within four minutes of the beginning of the game. From that point until the end of the game, Finley shot 1-for-10 from the field. He did have a couple tough shots with the shot clock running down mixed in but he has to shoot better than that. He was working hard defensively but his effectiveness on that end of the court was lacking.

-Major props to Brent Barry. He was instrumental in breaking the game wide open in the second half. In fact, he had a game best plus/minus of +25. When Barry plays without thinking, he’s a huge asset for this team. He was just letting it fly whenever he got it and finished 7-for-8 from the field, including 5-of-6 from beyond the arc. His lone miss was a bomb from about 30 feet out with the shot clock running down. Defensively, I was impressed by how he stuck his nose in there – literally. He wasn’t afraid to mix it up a bit with Howard, even if it meant taking a couple blows to the face. I was very impressed with how Barry played and I hope to see more of him as the season goes on.

-Jacque Vaughn played really, really, really hard. He’s not very good at anything regarding the game of basketball, but I thought his energy tonight was impressive – even considering he usually plays with a lot of energy. If Vaughn wasn’t fighting a bigger player trying to post him up, he was boxing out a player a foot taller than him or he was setting back screens offensively. You can question Vaughn’s skill level but you can’t question his heart.

-Ime Udoka got some decent minutes as Pop went small. He missed his first two shots while the game was close before hitting a three after the game was over. He’s getting really close to being an asset defensively. His understanding of what the Spurs are trying to do has grown tremendously over the last couple weeks. That said, his offense is still a bit lacking – both in terms of knowing which shots to shoot and making said shots.

-I was pleased with how Pop coached the game, for the most part. I have to admit that it makes me a bit uneasy to see Pop so readily go to the small ball lineup. Against the Magic, it’s probably the right move. I just hope it isn’t Pop’s go-to move against a team like Dallas. I thought it was a bit odd that Pop played this game almost as if it was a playoff game. The Big Three all played more minutes than usual and Pop used a D’Antoni-esque 7.5 man rotation. Also considering how this was a second game of a back-to-back with a bunch of games coming up in a short amount of time, Pop must have really wanted to get a win against the Magic. As far as the benching of Matt Bonner and Francisco Elson, it was mostly due to the fact that small ball was in full effect. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pop also used it as some sort of motivational tool because neither Bonner nor Elson has played that well since the beginning of the season.

Overall, as a Spurs fan you have to be thankful for not only having one certified superstar, but also a pair of guards who if they aren't superstars are at least playing like superstars so far this season.

[polandprzem]

Good you have some thoughts ...

[jman3000]

bout time... waited 2 hours for this to come up.. great read as always and much appreciated.



good night.

[bdictjames]

Great, great analysis. Especially for those who don't have LP.

Great game from the Big Three too, I was impressed with this win.

[BeerIsGood!]

I give Vaughn a lot of props for battling the hell out of Lewis on the block and holding his ground against guys who have a huge size advantage. That's why Pop trusts him and why they brought him back.

Dwight Howard is turning the corner. This is really the first game I've seen of him where he is actually starting to look like a basketball player. Before, he always was a giant, athletic, beast who had no touch or basketball IQ at all, but now he's getting comfortable with the game and I think will be in 2 to 3 years what everyone thought Oden would be (and still possibly could be if his knees don't bomb on him).

I'm not a consipiracy guy, but the officiating was pretty bad this game. Those 3 guys were on regular season cruise mode tonight and called a pretty bad game, thank goodness it didn't effect the outcome.

Great win against the best team in the East at this point. Dominating offensive performance to say the least.

[RC's Boss]

If I wasn't still packing, I would've missed this part. LOL

[whottt]

Seriously...what the hell got into Barry tonight? He was boxing out Dwight Howard...I was like WTF?

He actually hustled on D.

Usually the only time he plays like that is if he gets knockrd down...and even then he doesn't get as firey or hustle on D like that.

Pop saying he was looking for ways to get Barry on the court must have done wonders for him...


Then again...when Barry signed here, he said he wanted to Steve Kerr it here for a few years...well, Kerr sucked until what was his fourth year with the team...and in that fourth year he became the perfect Steve Kerr. I don't think Kerr had a bad game his final season here...anytime we needed a shot, he hit it, and he always seemed to hit the shots to get our offense going when it was bogging down.

Maybe Barry, now in his fourth year, has hit that same zone...

This game rates as one of Barry's best IMO. For this one game, he was the guy everybody wanted him to be(even though he never really was that guy before) when he signed here. He actually had a swagger...


Nice job Brent...keep this up and Pop will want you back(but not at 5 mil per)...and then you can tell him to stick it and retire like Kerr did....


Seriously though...Barry's playing like a guy playing the final games of his career.

[timvp]

Kerr sucked until what was his fourth year with the team...and in that fourth year he became the perfect Steve Kerr. I don't think Kerr had a bad game his final season here...anytime we needed a shot, he hit it, and he always seemed to hit the shots to get our offense going when it was bogging down.

Maybe Barry, now in his fourth year, has hit that same zone...Yeah, that's why I want no part of the Spurs trading Barry. Even though his contract is expiring and that makes him more valuable than he was in previous years, I want the Spurs to keep him.

When Brent Barry just plays how he knows how to play and forgets everything else, there isn't a player who the Spurs could trade him for that'd be more valuable. Even if he falls out of the rotation, I finally trust him to have that Kerr-like ability to come into the game cold and be ready and willing to hit a big shot.

Hopefully I'm not wrong . . .

[xamila rey]

bout time... waited 2 hours for this to come up.. great read as always and much appreciated.

me too. Thanks timvp! :toast

spurs tonight = impressive

buenas noches a todos.

[whottt]

You do realize the Spurs ran a couple of plays for him specifically to get some shots off...they haven't done that much. He's much better at that than camping out at the 3. He's better at transition threes, and he's better and hitting snap threes when he runs to a spot. I mean that's how they did it in Seattle. Fast offense, quick shots, quick passes...that's what he's really good at as a shooter.

Personally I think Pop rewarded him for his improved defense.

He actually played defense tonight. With intensity...he's not Bruce Bowen or anything...but as you said, he stuck his nose in there and mixed it up. He boxed out...

Now that he's done it though...he can never go back to the, I'm Brent Barry and I can't move on D card...not after tonight. He just burned that card up....

[timvp]

Now that he's done it though...he can never go back to the, I'm Brent Barry and I can't move on D card...not after tonight. He just burned that card up....True.

And whottt has to burn his If The Spurs Wanted A Defender They Shouldn't Have Signed Barry card. Pop and Barry both showed that Barry can play Spurs level defense if Barry wants to.

[BeerIsGood!]

That strip on the fast break was a damn nice defensive play showing good instincts and quickness for Barry... and... he actually rotated on defense all night.

[Deimosfobos]

Manu "worst" game so far would be considered really good by most players. Amazing, i hope he keeps this up, making 2007-2008 his best season. :)

[whottt]

True.

And whottt has to burn his If The Spurs Wanted A Defender They Shouldn't Have Signed Barry card. Pop and Barry both showed that Barry can play Spurs level defense if Barry wants to.


Hey dude...I'm not about excusing guys from not doing things they've shown they can do...consider that card burned. Barry just upped his expectation level and standard on D....

He's never gotten in there on D like he did tonight before...


I'm not really worried about his clutchness...he is clutch. Period.



Although I will admit...IMO, being a hustle guy actually hurts clutch factor...for the simple reason that hustle guys operate on a higher energy level and when they amp their already amped energy level up for a clutch situation...you can wind up with the proverbial, trying too hard, scenario...


For an example of this I give you...oh let's say Matt Bonner in a big game. Hell...even Manu actually over does it sometimes.


But the guys who tend to hit those really huge last second shots(shots, not layups)...are not usually energy guys. They are usually just the opposite...and the reason for that is simple as well...low energy guys enter into a higher energy level state in clutch situations...however, since they aren't energy guys, the result isn't usually the, trying too hard, scenario. It usually puts their energy level right at about the optimum level...and the result is a very calm and poised player in what for most people would be a very uncalm and nerve wracking situaion...


For an example of this...I give you Robert Horry.


There are exceptions of course, but not really when it comes to role players...what's I've said is about as true as it gets when you are talking role players.


So it's possible that an upped energy level Barry could be less clutch...but I don't think he's going to turn into a total energy guy, so it's probably moot.

[SenorSpur]

Good summary, as usual.

A couple of points.

Recall that when Pop first resorted to the small-ball lineup versus the Mavs in the 2006 WCSF, it seemed then as though the Spurs vaunted defensive principles were scrapped in the process. The games were played at a much higher offensive level. Same thing with tonight's game versus the Magic.

As for Dwight Howard, I'd say he's already a beast. I understand and agree that he's drastically cut down on his turnovers and developed a couple of go-to moves. Yet he's always been an raw, athletic, freak of a big man whose had "beast" written all over his game. Because of his stated desire to be "the best player in the league", we knew this day was coming. He was a beast least year. His improved games simply means that he's just a bigger beast this year.

Finley inconsistent? What else is new?

[ChumpDumper]

Barry was great tonght. There isn't an enormous impetus to trade him or anyone at this point because the Spurs are playing well and they have an empty roster spot to plug in whatever young man impresses in the D-League (I'll have my eye on Jeremy Richardson). The Spurs are almost on cruise control in Novemeber; it's enough to make a poster nervous.

[whottt]

I don't think the Spurs are looking to trade anyone...that'd most likely be capspace they are trading away, unless it's one of the core. I don't think the Spurs are big fans of trading capspace...he's one of their favorites.

[Kori Ellis]

Barry on D....

http://www.woai.com/media/news/6/6/1/6617d031-9c15-4165-83b3-eaebea98ea7c/Original.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Bruno can give the particulars, but the Spurs could take on a free agent in late December or early January without having to pay the luxury tax -- about the time the cream starts rising to the top of the D-League. Cap space is not a major concern these days because they can either re-sign the free agents they will have for reasonable deals and/or spend the full MLE to get or keep new players. There are a good number of young talented swingmen who will be getting a chance to prove themselves in the D-League (Jeremy Richardson, Devin Green, Brandon Bowman, Justin Bowen, Sean Banks. Andre Patterson, Carlos Powell and Mike Hall are the ones I have in mind) and the Spurs will be in a prime position to pick up the best one when the time is right without giving anything up.

[intlspurshk]

Just pick up someone in D-league who is quick enough to keep Mav in check is excellent

[foodie2]

It’s beyond scary to think of the day when the Spurs don’t have Bowen.

This was the truest statement in your analysis. I think it's about time we started thinking about the "big 4" instead of the "big 3". Bowen is key.

[stéphane]

This was the truest statement in your analysis. I think it's about time we started thinking about the "big 4" instead of the "big 3". Bowen is key.

:tu

[wildchild]

... I have to admit that it makes me a bit uneasy to see Pop so readily go to the small ball lineup. Against the Magic, it’s probably the right move. I just hope it isn’t Pop’s go-to move against a team like Dallas. I thought it was a bit odd that Pop played this game almost as if it was a playoff game. The Big Three all played more minutes than usual and Pop used a D’Antoni-esque 7.5 man rotation...

I'm worry about several decisions against Mavs like this one

[dimsah]

I thought this was going to be one of those games where Howard finished with 25 boards after grabbing 12 in the first half. I can't believe he only ended up with 16

[TMTTRIO]

I know it's really too early on in the season and Manu's already said it's just because he's in a good rhthym, but so far he's been somewhat consistant so far and is averaging 20.5 points/game right now. I hope he can keep it up.

[usckk]

Truth is: Barry was never "terrible" in the past few years. He was just very inconsistent, trying to fit into the Spurs system. Sometimes he plays great; other times he bricks 4 three's and stops playing. Like many others, he feels terrible when he's not making shots because he knows the Spurs brought him in to make those. However, because of that, he often forgets to do other stuff on the court as well.

I always thought his problem was mental. He's a great player. A player that can fit perfectly with the Spurs system. He just needs to let it fly.

I think this is the problem with Finley now. He's still thinking too much and not playing his total game. I don't think he should just spot-up threes anymore (although it would be nice if he makes a few).

[angel_luv]

The three pointer and one play that Manu scored was just sick.

I am convinced there is nothing that guy can't do.

Hedo was impressed too.

I saw Hedo congratulating Gino as Gino stood up and went to the free throw line.

[Russ]

Very nice win by the Spurs. The Orlando Magic are playing as well as anyone in the NBA and the Spurs beat them at their own game. The Magic play a small ball game in which they start a small point guard, a small shooting guard, two tall small forwards and a monster of a power forward. The Spurs matched down and eventually ran away with it.
Why is it the Spurs can play small ball and "match down" with everyone but Dallas? Phoenix, no problem. Orlando, ditto.

But the Mavs match up just kills the Spurs. It may be because Bowen has no obvious candidate to guard/shut down. Dallas has to many interchangeable cockroaches. Maybe it's Nowitski -- but then why not Dwight Howard or Stoudamire? Is it AJ? Does Cuban's inane smile somehow paralyze the Spurs? I'm mystified. :dizzy

[Russ]

Truth is: Barry was never "terrible" in the past few years. He was just very inconsistent, trying to fit into the Spurs system.
I alawys thought Barry was very underrated by Spurs fans. Especially when it came to wanting to trade him for the latest leaper of the week.

[Budkin]

Another great analysis LJ! This part had me rolling though...

"-Jacque Vaughn played really, really, really hard. He’s not very good at anything regarding the game of basketball,"

Hilarious but oh so true. The guy gives 110% effort out there.

[ShoogarBear]

The thing I was most impressed with in the game was the offensive execution. Three turnovers in such a fast-paced game is ridiculously good. The Spurs executed their offense very well throughout and kept executing until the Magic cracked. Actually, if you look throughout NBA history, some of the fastest-paced offenses in history played turnover-free ball. To some extent, there's a correlation between holding onto the ball using a lot of shot clock and turning it over more.


As far as the Magic are concerned, Dwight Howard is going to be beast. Was there a final number on his dunks? I literally think he had 10, which is more than anyone in recent memory, Amare included. This was more impressive than any of Amare's games, because the Spurs weren't conceding the points to Howard.


Duncan’s passing was good all game and even though Howard had a monster game, I thought Duncan competed well against him. Duncan had a couple of touch passes to Oberto and Barry that were as good as any he's made in his career.


This was a classic Bruce Bowen game. Lewis was nonexistent in the first half, Hedo was nonexistent in the second.


Major props to Brent Barry. Best Spur game ever by Barry, on both ends.


Jacque Vaughn played really, really, really hard. He’s not very good at anything regarding the game of basketball, but I thought his energy tonight was impressive – even considering he usually plays with a lot of energy. If Vaughn wasn’t fighting a bigger player trying to post him up, he was boxing out a player a foot taller than him or he was setting back screens offensively. You can question Vaughn’s skill level but you can’t question his heart.Watching what Vaughn does off the ball is always high entertainment value. He's Kevin Willis trapped in a small guy's body.


As far as the benching of Matt Bonner and Francisco Elson, it was mostly due to the fact that small ball was in full effect. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Pop also used it as some sort of motivational tool because neither Bonner nor Elson has played that well since the beginning of the season. Of course, it is now more difficult to blame sucky defense solely on Bonner and Elson, because the Spurs showed they are capable of that with neither one playing.

[timvp]

Why is it the Spurs can play small ball and "match down" with everyone but Dallas?Rebounding.

When the Spurs and Mavs play and the teams go small, the Mavs' small team dominates the Spurs' small team on the boards. That's why the Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs in 12 out of the last 13 games they've played, something ridiculous like that.

[ShoogarBear]

Rebounding.

When the Spurs and Mavs play and the teams go small, the Mavs' small team dominates the Spurs' small team on the boards. That's why the Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs in 12 out of the last 13 games they've played, something ridiculous like that.And Brandon Bass is going to make that continue. :depressed

[wildbill2u]

My biggest worry on the team right now is Finley. Maybe he needs to get his eyesight checked out. When a great shooter starts having long stretches (remember last year) where his shot is off, he's on the downside of his career. A passable Finley lets us have the luxury of Manu off the bench to ignite the second team.

I think Pop HAS to experiment with small ball lineups. Too many teams are going to this style and we have to be ready to play it. Look what happened to the Mavs in the playoffs last year.

[T Park]

My biggest worry on the team right now is Finley. Maybe he needs to get his eyesight checked out. When a great shooter starts having long stretches (remember last year) where his shot is off, he's on the downside of his career. A passable Finley lets us have the luxury of Manu off the bench to ignite the second team.

If he shows up in march april may like he did last year, who cares?

[SequSpur]

I saw Hedo take Bowen to the hole and score with ease at least 4 times in the first half. Just wanted to make that correction.

[Kori Ellis]

I saw Hedo take Bowen to the hole and score with ease at least 4 times in the first half. Just wanted to make that correction.

Bowen wasn't guarding Hedo in the first half. He was guarding Rashard Lewis. I know they look very similar :lol

[Ginobilly]

Rebounding.

When the Spurs and Mavs play and the teams go small, the Mavs' small team dominates the Spurs' small team on the boards. That's why the Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs in 12 out of the last 13 games they've played, something ridiculous like that.

Yeah I agree here, and this is were the Spurs miss somebody like Malik Rose to fight and frustrate the mavs with his hustle and his offensive rebounding. And not to mention we miss Sjax too against them. I remember once we lost those two guys the mavs started owning us.

[Spurs Brazil]

great analysis timvp

TP and Manu are playing fantastic.

Great to see TP playing great in those back to back after last week games. I think it's safe to day he was tired but Pop needs to limit his minutes because we'll play a lot of games in the next 10 days

[SequSpur]

Bowen wasn't guarding Hedo in the first half. He was guarding Rashard Lewis. I know they look very similar :lol


Watch it again. I also saw Hedo draw a block on Bowen.....

[Kori Ellis]

Watch it again. I also saw Hedo draw a block on Bowen.....
He might have come over to help. But Rashard Lewis was Bowen's man in the first half. Pop then switched Bowen's primary assignment at halftime to Hedo.

[SequSpur]

Pop switched when Hedo was becoming a prolific scorer half way through the first. Manu came in, switch was made and it continued. Second Half Bowen didn't shut down jack, the Spurs just outscored them, they still dropped 110.

Bowen was great, but no Spur last night played any defense.

[Jimcs50]

Did not see game, was on road to Arlington last night.

Why did Francisco only play 1 min??? Is he hurt?

[Russ]

Rebounding.

When the Spurs and Mavs play and the teams go small, the Mavs' small team dominates the Spurs' small team on the boards. That's why the Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs in 12 out of the last 13 games they've played, something ridiculous like that.
Agreed. And it's mostly long rebounds where Dallas' quickness to loose balls kills the Spurs. Typically, the Spurs play great D for 20 seconds then Dallas jacks up a long off-balance shot which clanks to some ridiculous destination where one of the Dallas cockroaches snaps it up. This process repeats until the Mavs hit a tough shot or the Spurs' D just wears out in frustration. I think not only athleticism, but physicality :ihit , on the wings is called for. A hard foul or two going for loose balls if need be -- I think Dallas shrinks up at that point. Washington might be the ticket.

[Ginobilly]

Agreed. And it's mostly long rebounds where Dallas' quickness to loose balls kills the Spurs. Typically, the Spurs play great D for 20 seconds then Dallas jacks up a long off-balance shot which clanks to some ridiculous destination where one of the Dallas cockroaches snaps it up. This process repeats until the Mavs hit a tough shot or the Spurs' D just wears out in frustration. I think not only athleticism, but physicality :ihit , on the wings is called for. A hard foul or two going for loose balls if need be -- I think Dallas shrinks up at that point. Washington might be the ticket.

Terry and Harris seem to be to much for Parker/(insert scrub point guard). Hopefully Darious plans out so he could put Harris bitch ass on the floor every time he penetrates. And their guards always seem to make impossible kobe type fadeaways against. Like I said this is where we really miss Malik against Dallas. He would be frustrating the hell out of Dirk positioning himself for key rebounds. I guess everybody forgets that the last time we beat Dallas was in 03.

[bdictjames]

You guys are expecting too much of Brent.

And you diss him when he has a bad game.

WTF. I dont want "trade Brent" threads anymore, Brent is a huge part of the team, and Pop and co. know that. He probably is untradeable, same with Finley and the Big Three.

[bdictjames]

Best Spur game ever by Barry, on both ends.

Didn't Barry score 24 points once against the Clippers? Or that weird overtime-sending three against the Kings in 06?
:rolleyes

[SAGambler]

Terry and Harris seem to be to much for Parker/(insert scrub point guard). Hopefully Darious plans out so he could put Harris bitch ass on the floor every time he penetrates. And their guards always seem to make impossible kobe type fadeaways against. Like I said this is where we really miss Malik against Dallas. He would be frustrating the hell out of Dirk positioning himself for key rebounds. I guess everybody forgets that the last time we beat Dallas was in 03.
Huh? I thought we beat them first game of 06-07 season, just about 13 months ago.

[ShoogarBear]

the Clippers
on both ends.

[AFBlue]

You guys are expecting too much of Brent.

And you diss him when he has a bad game.

WTF. I dont want "trade Brent" threads anymore, Brent is a huge part of the team, and Pop and co. know that. He probably is untradeable, same with Finley and the Big Three.

Tim Duncan is the only "untradeable" Spur there is. Parker and Ginobili would only be traded for superstars. And Bowen wouldn't net nearly enough in return.

Outside of those four, any of the Spurs can be traded.

Just because Barry started off the season hot, doesn't mean the Spurs should hesitate to trade him if they get a great offer.

Same goes for Fin or any other role player on this team. The simple fact that these guys are defined as role players makes them succeptible to trade.

In fact, Barry is probably still the most tradeable asset the Spurs have. He has an expiring $6M contract that could be used to get back some more long-term help on the wings and the Spurs are pretty much guaranteed not to have too much cap space over the next couple summers, having signed Bonner and Oberto this last off-season.

Bottom Line: Barry had a good game, but is not untradeable or a key piece to this team night in and night out.

[gilmor]

Rebounding.

When the Spurs and Mavs play and the teams go small, the Mavs' small team dominates the Spurs' small team on the boards. That's why the Mavs have outrebounded the Spurs in 12 out of the last 13 games they've played, something ridiculous like that.

Just a quick question: If Udoka morph into someone Spurs thinks he is going to be, won't that solve the problem with rebounding?

[AFBlue]

Just a quick question: If Udoka morph into someone Spurs thinks he is going to be, won't that solve the problem with rebounding?

He's a better rebounder than Barry, Fin, and Bowen...but he's still a 6'5 G/F. Playing him as the small ball 4 would be a significant defensive liability, would give them less on the court offensively, and would probably only marginally upgrade their rebounding.

[AFBlue]

Just a quick question: If Udoka morph into someone Spurs thinks he is going to be, won't that solve the problem with rebounding?

If you want to have a G/F that will give you significant scoring and rebounding as the small-ball 4, then look to the Clippers' Corey Maggette.

Maggette is averaging 7.5RPG in 35MPG....and he's scoring at a 20-point clip so far this season.

And the Spurs have the expiring deal in Barry to entice the Clips to make it happen....j/k bdictjames :lol

[[email protected]]

That was a good game.
Go Spurs Go

[T Park]

Udoka's development, and Udoka's understanding of the offense and defense, are what beating Dallas depends on.

[SRJ]

Yeah I agree here, and this is were the Spurs miss somebody like Malik Rose to fight and frustrate the mavs with his hustle and his offensive rebounding.

Malik was huge against the Mavericks - it is in matchups against them where we miss him the most.

I'm not saying he should still be here, or that they should bring him back, but he was a great anti-Maverick weapon.

[Solid D]

I just now watched the whole game (replay). I had seen about 10 minutes of the game, live, last night.

I will add to timvp's assessment regarding Dooling's defense that Jameer Nelson wasn't much better on Parker, nor was Arroyo.

The game got away from the Magic in the 4th quarter when the Spurs outscored them 18-6 during an 8 minute stretch. It looked as though the Magic were the ones playing their second game in 2 nights, instead of the Spurs.

Dwight Howard showed why he was the Eastern Conference player of the week. Rashard Lewis played more minutes than anyone (44 min.), yet only had 12 points & 5 turnovers.

Offensively, the Spurs look like they are in March/April form most of the time.

Key moments in the game. 1) Ginobili's 4 point play and 9 straight points in 3 trips late in the 3rd period. The Spurs never trailed after that. 2) With the Spurs leading by 6 early in the 4th, Michael Finley and Brent Barry bury consecutive 3 pointers, Spurs double their lead in a blink of an eye, up by 12.

[SenorSpur]

If you want to have a G/F that will give you significant scoring and rebounding as the small-ball 4, then look to the Clippers' Corey Maggette.

Maggette is averaging 7.5RPG in 35MPG....and he's scoring at a 20-point clip so far this season.

And the Spurs have the expiring deal in Barry to entice the Clips to make it happen....j/k bdictjames :lol

The knock on Maggette, at least in this forum, is that he isn't prolific 3-pt shooter and doesn't play great defense. Personally, I'd take him specifically for the reasons you've stated and also because he gets to the rack with ease, draws fouls and is a decent foul shooter. Oh by the way, he has an effective midrange game. All those elements (or the lack thereof), the lack of foot speed and defense at the wing positions are evident when matching up against a team like the Mavs.

[MagnusKrauss]

James White! could have been the answer.

[telecomguy]

Udoka's development, and Udoka's understanding of the offense and defense, are what beating Dallas depends on.

Also I think Elson can be effective against Dirk because he is long enough to contest Dirk's jumpres and quick enough to stay in front of Dirk should Dirk fake a shot and try to dribble-drive to the paint. We can't afford to double up on Dirk like GS because aside from Manu, we don't have quick enough perimeter players that can jump in & out of double teams to harass Dirk like all the Warrior players can due to their sheer athleticism and quickness.

Let Elson play one-on-one against Dirk for extended minutes and see how he does. Elson can also take Dirk one-on-one on the offensive side as he is much quicker than Dirk and can go to the rack or at least get some fouls off Dirk. To me, Elson's development or the ability to guard Dirk without constant double team will be a real key in the playoffs should they meet because it allows us to put Bowen on Howard, and Manu/TP/Udoka can handle JET and Devin with some help from Duncan.

Elson and Udoka will be key new players for both rebounding and defending the Mavs in the playoffs and they can really make a deference in helping out Bowen/Manu/DUncan/TP.

I also saw Bonner harass Dirk effectively in spots last game so he can also spell Elson & DUncan in trying to contain Dirk who is still their focal point and the key to dallas offense along with Devin and Howard (JET to me is a loser and will not be performing at this level come playoff time -- when the going gets tough Devin will respond but not JET and the jury is still out on Dirk although in all fairness to him, Dirk was double & Triple teamed by the Warriors)

[roycrikside]

I had my doubts about TimVP's contention that Bruce guarded Lewis in the first half so I rewatched the game and charted it, possession by possession. Sure enough, my instincts were correct as Bruce was on Hedo pretty much the whole game the two were on the floor together.

The only stretch where Bruce guarded Lewis was when he and Manu were on the court together a bit during that second quarter, but pretty much whenever it was Bruce and Finley, Bruce had Hedo. Also, I don't think it's appropriate to give Bruce (or anyone) credit for good defense on Hedo. The guy just missed a lot of WIDE OPEN shots and lay-ups. He could've just as easily finished 15 for 18 as the 9 for 18 he wound up with.

I would suggest to TimVP that he rewatch the game and concede that Bruce just didn't have a good night defensively. It's worth noting that Pop didn't play Bowen the final 9 minutes of the game, perhaps he came to the conclusion that the small gain Bowen would give him defensively wasn't nearly enough to make up for the deficit at the other end. The Spurs blew them away in the 4th largely for that reason.


1. On Hedo, no shot – 1
2. On Hedo, no shot – 2
3. On Hedo, no shot – 3
4. On Hedo, Finley switch, 3 pointer miss (Finley 0/1)
5. On Hedo, no shot – 4
6. On Hedo, screen, Oberto switch, driving lay-up (Oberto 1/1, 2 pts)
7. On Hedo, no shot – 5 Hedo assist 1
8. Transition, N/A
9. On Hedo, no shot – 6
10. On Hedo, driving lay-up (Bowen 1/1, 2 pts)
11. Transition, Bowen on Howard, no shot – 1
12. On Hedo, no shot – 7
13. On Hedo, no shot – 8
14. On Hedo, driving lay-up (Bowen 2/2, 4 pts)
15. Transition, bad press, on Hedo, no shot – 9, Hedo assist 2
16. On Hedo, no shot – 10
17. On Hedo, transition switch, Tony on Hedo, no shot – 1, nearest man on Bogans three (Bogans-Bowen 1/1, 3pts) Hedo asst 3
18. On Hedo, no shot – 11
19. On Hedo, no shot – 12
20. On Hedo, scramble because of Manu steal attempt, closest to Nelson three (Nelson-Bowen 1/1, 3pts)
21. Transition, Bowen on Howard, 3 second call, no shot – 2
Bruce checks out with 3:06 left in 1st
22. Tony on Hedo, no shot – 2
23. Manu on Hedo, driving lay-up (Manu 1/1, 2 pts)
24. Transition, Finley on Hedo, shooting foul (Finley 2 pts on FT)
25. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 1
26. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 2
27. Vaughn on Hedo, no shot – 1
Hedo checked out, very early in 2nd quarter
Bowen, Hedo check in with 8:24 to go in 2nd quarter
28. On Lewis, no shot – 1
29. On Lewis, no shot – 2, Manu on Hedo, jumpshot good (Manu 2/2, 4 pts)
30. On Hedo, blocking foul on Tim on drive
31. On Arroyo, no shot – 1, Manu on Hedo, no shot – 3
32. On Lewis, jumper no good (Lewis-Bowen 0/1)
33. On Lewis, no shot – 3
34. On Hedo, no shot – 13
35. On Hedo, transition, no shot – 14
36. On Hedo, no shot – 15
37. On Hedo, alley-oop to Howard, Hedo assist 4
38. On Hedo, screen switch to Oberto, shot and-1 (Oberto 2/2, 5 pts)
39. On Hedo, no shot – 16
40. On Hedo, no shot – 17
41. On Hedo, shooting foul (Hedo 1 pt on FT)

Bruce checks out with 2:15 to go in 2nd quarter

42. Barry on Hedo, no shot – 1
43. Finley on Hedo, no shot – 1
44. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 3
45. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 4, Hedo assist 5

Half Time

46. On Hedo, switch to Nelson, no shot – 1
47. On Hedo, 3 pt attempt no good (Bowen 2/3, 5 pts)
48. On Hedo, no shot – 18
49. On Hedo, lay-up attempt bothered by Tim (Bowen 2/4, 5 pts)
50. On Hedo, no shot – 19
51. On Hedo, forces turnover (Turnover 1)
52. On Hedo, back cut lay-up good (Bowen 3/5, 7pts)
53. On Hedo, no shot – 20
54. On Hedo, missed lay-up (Bowen 3/6, 7 pts)
55. On Hedo, no shot – 21
56. On Hedo, no shot – 22
57. On Hedo, wide open 3 pt attempt no good (Bowen 3/7, 7 pts)
58. On Hedo, left him, shooting foul on Tim (Bowen 2 pts on FT, 9 pts)
59. Transition Tim on Hedo, no shot – 1, Bowen/Barry on Howard, lay-up (Bowen-Howard 1/1, 2pts)

Hedo checks out 3:58 to go in 3rd

60. On Lewis, no shot – 4
61. On Lewis, fell down on Nelson screen, Barry steal
62. On Lewis, no shot – 5
63. On Lewis, no shot – 6

Hedo checks in with 1:33 to go in 3rd

64. On Lewis, Lewis jumper good (Lewis/Bowen 1/2, 2pts), Manu on Hedo, no shot – 5
65. On Hedo, transition, no shot – 23
66. On Lewis, no shot – 7
End of 3rd
67. On Hedo, no shot – 24
68. On Hedo, switch/scramble with Finley, open 3pt shot good (Finley 1/2, 5 pts)
69. On Hedo, no shot – 25

Video problem on NBA League pass

70. Bruce on Hedo, Duncan block (Duncan 0/1, 0 pts)
Bruce checks out with 8:42 to go in 4th
71. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 6
72. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 7
73. Transition, Manu on Hedo, foul
74. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 8
75. Transition, Barry on Hedo, no shot – 2
76. Manu on Hedo, wide open jumper no good (Manu 2/3, 4 pts)
77. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 9
78. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 10
79. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 11
80. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 12
81. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 13
82. Manu on Hedo, no shot – 14
83. Manu on Hedo, switch/confusion with Barry, missed lay-up (Barry 0/1, 0 pts)
84. Udoka on Hedo, wide open 3pt good (Udoka 1/1, 3 pts)
85. Udoka on Hedo, no shot – 1
86. Udoka on Hedo, no shot – 2

Hedo points: 9/18 2/6 3pts, 6/7 FT 26 pts

Vs. Bruce 3/7, 0/2 3pts, 3/4 FT, 9 pts, 3 assists, 1 turnover
Vs. Finley 1/2, 1/2 3pts, 2/2 FT, 5 pts
Vs. Oberto 2/2, 1/1 FT, 5 pts
Vs. Manu 2/3, 4 pts, 1 assist
Vs. Udoka, 1/1, 1/1 3pts, 3 pts
Vs. Duncan 0/1, 0 pts
Vs. Barry 0/1, 0 pts
Vs. ?, 0/1, 0/1 3pts, 0 pts
Vs. Tony 0/0, 0 pts, 1 assist

Bowen Vs. Other People

Vs. Bogans 1/1, 1/1 3pts, 3 pts, 1 possession
Vs. Nelson, 1/1, 1/1 3pts, 3pts, 2 possessions, 1 no shot
Vs. Lewis 1/2, 2pts, 10 possessions, 7 no shots, 1 switch
Vs. Howard 1/1, 2 pts, 3 possessions, 1 turnover, 1 no shot
Vs. Arroyo 0/0, 1 possession, 1 no shot

Possessions Vs. Hedo

Bowen: 45 Possessions, 7 FGA, 3 fouls, 3 assists, 1 turnover, 8 switches, 23 no shots
Manu: 18 Possessions, 3 FGA, 1 assist, 1 foul, 1 switch, 12 no shots
Finley: 4 Possessions, 2 FGA, 1 foul, 1 no shot
Barry: 3 Possessions, 1 FGA, 2 no shots
Oberto: 2 Possessions, 2 FGA, 1 foul
Duncan: 2 Possessions, 1 FGA (block), 1 no shot
Tony: 2 Possessions, 1 assist, 1 no shot
Vaughn: 1 possession, 1 no shot

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Jesus.