Is Brent Barry the 4th best player on this team?

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

I'm really beginning to think so. Since Pop's been encouraging him to be more aggressive and do more than just spot up for 3's... it's becoming very apparent that there's a little more dimension to his game than I previously realized.

I like Finley, but I'm starting to think that after Manu and Bruce... Barry should get the most minutes at the 2/3 position.

Since posting this, a couple of people have brought up Bruce Bowen... and they're right. Bruce is the 4th best.

Is Barry the 5th best player on this team?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

1. Tim
2. Tony
3. Manu
4. Bruce


????????????

[timvp]

Not unless the Spurs traded Bowen.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

1. Tim
2. Tony
3. Manu
4. Bruce


????????????

You're right. I stand corrected. Bruce is #4.

So let me rephrase the question...

Is Brent Barry the 5th best player on this team?

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

You're right. I stand corrected. Bruce is #4.

So let me rephrase the question...

Is Brent Barry the 5th best player on this team?
Okay now we can talk. :D

I'd say that Oberto is in front of him, but if Barry keeps playing the way he is he can definitely move ahead.

[timmy21_4rings]

1. Tim
2. Manu (won many *** HIGHLY COMPETITIVE GAMES ** for us)
3. Tony (won many games for us and disappeared in few HIGHLY COMPETITIVE GAMES...)
4. Bruce

Obviously 2007 NBA Final games are not the highly competitive games that Spurs played.

[T Park]

Hard to keep Oberto out of it.


Oberto is really quickly turning into my favorite player.

[T Park]

3. Tony (won many games for us and disappeared in few HIGHLY COMPETITIVE GAMES...)


WTF?!!?

I thought the last three playoffs dispelled this damn notion...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

3. Tony (won many games for us and disappeared in few HIGHLY COMPETITIVE GAMES...)

Obviously 2007 NBA Final games are not the highly competitive games that Spurs played.
Then what the fuck do you consider competitive?!?!?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

WTF?!!?

I thought the last three playoffs dispelled this damn notion...

Tony's getting there for sure.

[T Park]

Tony's getting there for sure

getting there?

Uh, winning the NBA Finals for your team, and playing like a fucking stud vs the Suns and Jazz studly enough.

Parker should never have that BS notion about him posted on here ever again.

[pawe]

Hard to keep Oberto out of it.


Oberto is really quickly turning into my favorite player.

Yep! hustle, heart and good positioning.
Hey, remember when everyone was bitching about Oberto? You 'member, 'member?

[timmy21_4rings]

Then what the fuck do you consider competitive?!?!?
Remember 2006 series against Mavs and the last regular season game against Mavs. Yes Mavs choked against GS but they still own us for past two seasons.

Do you really think 4-0 as highly completive game for NBA finals? Come on..I thought you could do better.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

:lol

[E20]

1. Tim
2/3. Tony or Manu (IMHO they flucuate from time to time and one plays better than the other on nights)
4. Bowen

Fifth place is an elusive spot. Some nights it's Fin, Barry, Oberto, or even Elson. However, Oberto consistently brings the same type of game every night, so from a consistent POV Oberto takes it, but Barry has had multiple games during this season where he looks excellent from an offensive, energy/hustle, and defensive standpoint. If he keeps up this pace then he'll be 5th place for sure.

[whottt]

At this particular moment, or once Horry gets back?


Brent's fluctuated between being the 6th and 7th best player for his entire career here...

He's better than Oberto btw.

[Kobulingam]

Bruce is #4. He is part of the big 4. Now change the title of the thread to:

Re: Is Brent Barry the 5th best player on this team?

[E20]

Horry in the RS? No
Horry in the PO's? Yes

[SRJ]

To (attempt to) get this thread back on track, the rub with BB isn't his ability and IQ - it's in his tendency to hesitate, a seeming refusal to assert his game.

If Bones played assertively, he might have made an All-Star team or two during his career and would be recognized as the fifth-best player on the roster. He's been great lately, but he has to stay consistently aggressive to warrant such recognition.

[T Park]

Yep! hustle, heart and good positioning.
Hey, remember when everyone was bitching about Oberto? You 'member, 'member?

I do.

He sometimes slumps back into that when he plays like he doesn't care.

When he plays like he has lately with fire and a purpose, then yeah, hes a hell of a player.

[whottt]

To (attempt to) get this thread back on track, the rub with BB isn't his ability and IQ - it's in his tendency to hesitate, a seeming refusal to assert his game.

If Bones played assertively, he might have made an All-Star team or two during his career and would be recognized as the fifth-best player on the roster. He's been great lately, but he has to stay consistently aggressive to warrant such recognition.


If by asserting himself you mean jacking up shots and putting up 20-30 1-9 lines per season like Finley does...I guess you're right.


And he wouldn't be as good of a player.



Tonights trivia question


Tony Parker has been an NBA point guard for 7 seasons
Jacque Vaughn has been an NBA point guard for 10 seasons
Brent Barry played one season of true PG...


Which player has the best career high assist game?

[T Park]

So now its time to bag on Tony parker to push the Barry agenda?

Lovely.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Remember 2006 series against Mavs.

He averaged 20.1 points 3.7 rebounds and 3.1 assists in that series. His assists were a little down, but that is no way considered dissappearing in the series.


and the last regular season game against Mavs.

Are you seriously counting a November regular season game to heart against Tony?


Do you really think 4-0 as highly completive game for NBA finals? Come on..I thought you could do better.

Dude the highest margin of victory was 11 in the whole series. Doesn't matter that we swept them, it matters that each game was close, especially the last 2. Close games are considered competitive.

[pawe]

Intimidation by BB to the point that it will mess up their defense by not leaving him open to double or just to scramble them. Sometimes, small details like inserting a pure shooter will bring problems to the other team's defense. For me, the Spurs still don't have a specific 5th best player.. but, they do have 5 players alternating for that spot every week. Damn this team's loaded!

[TDMVPDPOY]

barry is good when he doesnt hesitate at the 3pt line when his free too shoot it, instead of tryin to penetrate and detour to someone else :(:(

[SpursIndonesia]

1. TD -the foundation, the fundamental
.
2a. Manu -best team closer
2b. Tony -best team attacker
4. Bowen -You've just been bowened, a really deared catchphrase, LOL

After that, it's just on night to night basis ranking.

[TDMVPDPOY]

ppl are forgetting will smith

[whottt]

So now its time to bag on Tony parker to push the Barry agenda?

Lovely.


Congrats...you and Timvp have the same basketball analysis mentality as TDMVPDPOY...


Props :tu

[duncan228]

Tonights trivia question

Tony Parker has been an NBA point guard for 7 seasons
Jacque Vaughn has been an NBA point guard for 10 seasons
Brent Barry played one season of true PG...

Which player has the best career high assist game?

Whottt, I'm too tired to research it but my curiousity is killing me.
I'm guessing it's Barry.
Who is it?

[whottt]

Barry with 16...and he only played PG one season.

[SRJ]

If by asserting himself you mean jacking up shots and putting up 20-30 1-9 lines per season like Finley does...I guess you're right.

That's actually not at all what I meant.

What a weird world you must live in, where it seems like everyone's trying to pick a fight with you.

[duncan228]

Thanks Whottt.

[whottt]

That's actually not at all what I meant.

What a weird world you must live in, where it seems like everyone's trying to pick a fight with you.

I don't think everyone is trying to pick a fight with me...and I'm the one being combative...it's just a stupid way of putting it...that lacks insight...


Plain old lazy analysis....

[SRJ]

I don't think everyone is trying to pick a fight with me...and I'm the one being combative...it's just a stupid way of putting it...that lacks insight...


Plain old lazy analysis....

Yeah, I'm sure you're right...who ever saw Brent Barry pass up a shot he should have taken? Who ever saw Brent Barry wander the court aimlessly for minutes at a time?

I agree with you in that I don't care much for Michael Finley's green light - but that's what Pop wants, and Finley does what is asked of him. I'm certain Barry has that same green light in his spots on the floor - it would be nice if Barry make use of that green light more (not as much as Finley does), as he has done the past two games.

[Texas_Ranger]

1. Duncan
2. Ginobili
3a. Bruce
3b. Parker
4a. Barry
4b. Finley
5a. Oberto
5b. Horry

[YODA]

I wonder if Fenley should even be starting. I wonder how Brent would do there. If im correct, wasnt brent kicking ass in march last year then got hurt and was out of the rotation the rest of the season? As what place he is, it doesnt really matter. We dont care who the 4th or 5th best players are. We cant compare apples to oranges. WE NEED a center, so Oberto/Elson have to go there, then Barry.

On another note. I noticed its 2 games with no minutes for bonner. I know it was smal line up, but even Elson got minutes.

[whottt]

I agree with you in that I don't care much for Michael Finley's green light - but that's what Pop wants, and Finley does what is asked of him. I'm certain Barry has that same green light in his spots on the floor -

I'm sure he does too...in fact, I'm sure it's his unwillingness to enjoy that green light to it's fullest extent(along with his D) that has garnered him many a minute on the bench in his Spurs career.


That said...Barry has better mind for offense, than you, timvp, TPark, or Greg Poppovich...and it's pretty obvious..

Which is why he is annually the leader on the team in just about every shooting ranking...and even leads the NBA in certain advanced rankings...mutiple times...all the while the majority of his shots taken are threes.

And is by far the best passer on the team....



I just think it's funny that for instance...a few years ago he lead the team in the 3PA...from the bench....even though he consistently draws a defender from the 3 line more than any other guy on the team...and still gets glossed as being afraid to shoot.



it would be nice if Barry make use of that green light more (not as much as Finley does), as he has done the past two games.


Well...Barry makes other players better...Finley doesn't, and you want Barry to transform himself into a player who doesn't make others better...He's gradually done it over the course of his Spurs career...even though, I'm sure it's been akin to making himself stupider.

Me personally...I like the player who actually makes others better. The guy that actually gets Duncan easy baskets...



But the bottom line is...whyever he does what he does...it's not because of he's afraid of the pressure of taking the shot...too many of his shots go in for that to be the case...big game, small game...

I don't care what the look on his face says...the shot wouldn't go in in the situations it goes in, often, if that were the case.

And so that criticism annoys the shit out of me..and it has since day 1. Because it's not just wrong...it's horribly wrong...and it's just about the worst criticism you can make of a player.

And what makes it stick in my craw even more is that we are about to retire a guys jersey who was the most afraid to shoot guard in NBA history.


And anyone that tries to pass that off as the reason Barry does what he does...is going to get the factual destruction they deserve.

[duncan228]

On another note. I noticed its 2 games with no minutes for bonner. I know it was smal line up, but even Elson got minutes.

Bonner got 5 minutes tonight. One rebound, two assists.

[loveforthegame]

After the big 4 it doesn't really matter who the best player is. We need all the guys that step on the floor to make an impact somehow.

[wildbill2u]

The fact that we are seriously discussing Barry as the 5th or 6th best player on the team shows how far he's come in earning the appreciation of some of SpursTalk fans.

If Pop really gives out minutes by whether the player earns them on the court, we should be seeing Barry starting instead of Finley. I'd really like to see that 'cause I got a hunch that Barry is one of those guys whose effectiveness is more apparent when he gets the minutes.

He is one damn smart player who, like Tim, makes the others better.

[Kori Ellis]

1. TD -the foundation, the fundamental
.
2a. Manu -best team closer
2b. Tony -best team attacker
4. Bowen -You've just been bowened, a really deared catchphrase, LOL

After that, it's just on night to night basis ranking.

I agree with this. However, a lot of times I find that Bowen is 2c. :hat

[Que Gee]

Barry with 16...and he only played PG one season.

Actually, 2.

[hsxvvd]

4th best at what? Golf.

[whottt]

Actually, 2.

Actually, 1.

[SpursIndonesia]

I agree with this. However, a lot of times I find that Bowen is 2c. :hat

If we talk about intangibles, ofcourse Bowen is 2c, but since we live & die in Hollinger number game, Bowen is clearly the lowest in the big 4 rank. :lol

[J.T.]

lol @ people ranking players on this team with subunits (2a/2b) because they don't want the Church of Tony or the Church of Manu (or both) to crucify them for trolling their boy.

[Obstructed_View]

Barry's great to have when he pulls the damn trigger. When he does it consistently I'll revisit this discussion. It's also way too early, because if he shoots 59% from the floor and 52% from three point range for the entire season he'll probably be a candidate for MVP.

[SpursIndonesia]

lol @ people ranking players on this team with subunits (2a/2b) because they don't want the Church of Tony or the Church of Manu (or both) to crucify them for trolling their boy.

AFAIK, Tony doesn't really have a church denomination, perhaps some girl fansclub -should be in deteriorating trend with his newly wed status. :smokin

If any, there's indeed Tony's bashers club with lotsa idiot Spurs fans residing in it.
:donkey

[wildchild]

I wonder if Fenley should even be starting. I wonder how Brent would do there. If im correct, wasnt brent kicking ass in march last year then got hurt and was out of the rotation the rest of the season? As what place he is, it doesnt really matter. We dont care who the 4th or 5th best players are. We cant compare apples to oranges. WE NEED a center, so Oberto/Elson have to go there, then Barry.

On another note. I noticed its 2 games with no minutes for bonner. I know it was smal line up, but even Elson got minutes.

Ddid you watch last five games?
Oberto was playing great and he earned his minutes. Bonner played with inconsistency in this regular season and he should work in his D rotations.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

4th best at what? Golf.

Catch up with the rest of us, will ya? I already corrected myself. "Is Barry the 5th best player on this team" is the question we're debating now. Bowen is 4th best.

[Kent_in_Atlanta]

Barry's great to have when he pulls the damn trigger. When he does it consistently I'll revisit this discussion. It's also way too early, because if he shoots 59% from the floor and 52% from three point range for the entire season he'll probably be a candidate for MVP.

Well he's not going to shoot those percentages all year. We know that.

But since Pop has let Barry know that he's free to be aggressive inside the arc, he's been showing what he's capable of. He can hit a mid-range jumper, create a shot, and he's always been a helluva passer. Great basketball IQ too.

My point is simply that Barry should be edging Finley for minutes right now.

[The Truth #6]

I wonder if Pop has freed Barry to be aggressive inside the arc or if simply Barry on his own has decided to play differently. He's been much more aggressive all around, more 'in the moment' on the court, and actually is showing small signs of his father Rick when he gets angry.

I always thought that because he had such issues with his father he had tried to contain that side of his aggressive personality (hence living in the relaxed NW, hanging with PJ, surfing in the offseasons in Redondo or Central America) but now he's letting it all hang out. I think its great, especially if this is his last season. Hopefully he'll earn more minutes if this continues. And hopefully he won't be involved in more trade rumors this year.

If he plays like this in the playoffs, then his presence can not be replaced by anyone.

It doesn't seem right to pit him against Finley because they're teammates, but for now Barry should get more minutes on the court. He's like an honorary Argentinian the way he moves the ball and moves without the ball. Barry/Manu/Oberto moments are usually my favorite lineups to watch.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

He averaged 20.1 points 3.7 rebounds and 3.1 assists in that series. His assists were a little down, but that is no way considered dissappearing in the series.



Are you seriously counting a November regular season game to heart against Tony?



Dude the highest margin of victory was 11 in the whole series. Doesn't matter that we swept them, it matters that each game was close, especially the last 2. Close games are considered competitive.


Plus Tony had sustained an injury in the Sacto series and still had good stats.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This place is full of TP homers. You guys can't see through it. Truth will tell.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

1. TD -the foundation, the fundamental
.
2a. Manu -best team closer
2b. Tony -best team attacker
4. Bowen -You've just been bowened, a really deared catchphrase, LOL

After that, it's just on night to night basis ranking.

Going back to the subject this is pretty close to reality. Anyway, I can't believe you guys are praising Barry now when last year you guys wanted to trade him. Thank god I never got into that bandwagon. I remember before Fin came to SA, Barry switched with Manu most of the time and played great, then he started playing horrible and there were even talks about him being traded in Feb. He's always been a great player. Period. I don't think he is the 5th best player but he's definitely around that number. I think Oberto and Horry (when he is back) are more consistent. Barry can have a good game and then come and go scoreless. He does have the nicest 3point of the league though. They are pretty.

[jman3000]

i think people would like to see him traded because of the value of his contract. his deal is up after this year and he's making about 5.5 million. at the age of 35 he's pretty much just a spot up jump shooter with occasional plays that remind us of his younger self.

he's useful shopping to a young team loaded with players with potential in need of a marksmen. people view that as better than getting nothing in return when he either retires or more unlikely resigns for much less money.

[SpursIndonesia]

If Barry can be traded for Josh Childress, i think Whott himself will drive & escort him to the airport. :lol

[SpursIndonesia]

This place is full of TP homers. You guys can't see through it. Truth will tell.

Who ? Outside Ducks & Sequ, plus some of the groupies out there. :wakeup

[Walter Craparita]

1 TD
2 Manu
3 Parker
4 Bowen
5 Elson when he plays to his full potential.

I don't know who is #5 but I'm glad Barry is Barry again.

[Obstructed_View]

Anyway, I can't believe you guys are praising Barry now when last year you guys wanted to trade him.
Barry was supposed to be the enticement for someone to take Beno. FYI, Beno's gone. FYI, Barry's playing better now than he was last year.

[Avitus1]

I'd put him in like the top 6

1. Duncan
2. Manu
3. Tony
4. Bowen
5. Oberto
6. Barry

[Dex]

So far this season, when he's gotten on the court, Barry has been playing like the 5th best Spur.

Time will tell if he can keep it up, and hopefully at an increased volume.