Game Thoughts: Toros vs. Vipers - Nov. 23

[Cloud786]

15 points (4-6 fgs, 7-7 fts)
5 rebs
5 tos
6 fouls

.. in 27 minutes

What yall think?

[Horry For 3!]

Scoring was pretty good. Rebounding decent. He needs to cut down on turnovers and fouls still though.

[whottt]

How many blocks?


The fouls aren't his biggest problem right now...he's a shotblocker learning the American game...he's going to be foul prone for a while.


If he's blocking shots...he's going to wind up getting minutes on this team this year at some point IMO. That's what the Spurs most need IMO.

[ChumpDumper]

Box Score (http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071123/AUSRGV/boxscore.html)

- Ian got the start but didn't have a great game. Coach Snyder is running a lot of four down to get him touches, but Ian wasted a couple of those chances with some kind of running hook shot he picked up from Matt Bonner, otherwise he could have been perfect from the floor. The thing he needs to work on most right now is positioning. He's simply in the wrong place too often on offense, defense and for rebounding. The way he was playing, there was no way he was going to last too long in a tightly called game like tonight's; he fouled out in just under 28 minutes. On the bright side, he was perfect from the line.

- This team may end up being more dependent on Keith Langford than I thought. He had a good game -- 28 points on 9-17 shooting and 7 rebounds -- but he had to play 45 and a half minutes to keep things respectable, brought up the ball more than a few times and had the offense run through him nearly the entire time he was on the floor. Although four other Toros scored in double figures, Langford is probably going to need some more help from the guards putting points on the board in the future.

- Kevin Pittsnogle has an NBA shot, but nothing else. He's not as slow as I thought he might be, so there is some hope he can develop. As it is, however, Kevin could be a little disinterested if he's not the main guy on the team. We'll see if he makes a different impression Saturday.

- Squeaky Johnson started out kinda crappy but got more comfortable as the game went on. His size makes him a defensive liability even at this level as he's not super-quick or well-positioned enough to make up for it. To this point, no other guard besides Langford showed any potential for running a team. The others will get their chances, but they could be replaced if they don't show something.

- There was much experimentation with lineups not unlike the early-season Spurs. Most noteworthy was a super small ball lineup of Johnson/Paulino/Langford/Bowen with Ian or Pittsnogle in the middle. It looks like they could be seeing how Bowen handles PF duties in such a lineup. They didn't seem to press any speed advantage that lineup might give, and the guards weren't staying in front of their men well enough on defense to make it work. I doubt we've seen the last of it though.

- Hidalgo has a nice arena and viperfans damn near filled it up. Their announcer seemed like he had never called a basketball game though, and while they had great live video of the game on mini-jumbotrons, they had no stat information aside from the score at all. Overall, a good experience and a nice start for the D-League in the valley.

[SequSpur]

Did they win?

[Cloud786]

This Keith Langford kid had 28 points.. not bad.


They lost 97-104..

http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071123/AUSRGV/boxscore.html

[Horry For 3!]

How many blocks?


The fouls aren't his biggest problem right now...he's a shotblocker learning the American game...he's going to be foul prone for a while.


If he's blocking shots...he's going to wind up getting minutes on this team this year at some point IMO. That's what the Spurs most need IMO.
He had 1 steal, no blocks.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks for this info, CD :tu Do you think his inability to get into position is just because he's not used to their system yet? Or does he not even get the basics right?

[Horry For 3!]

Langford was 9-17 fg 9-13 ft 28 pts 7 rebs 1 ast 2 stls 1 blk 4 tos

[Kori Ellis]

I merged the threads.

Thanks.

[whottt]

LOL @ the box...CJ Watson's revenge?


Chump...how many of those fouls were block attempts?

That block total sucks...but I can live with it somewhat they were bad blocks...if you make a bad block, it's going to be a foul.


Looks like he got to the FT line a decent amount of times as well...

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks for this info, CD :tu Do you think his inability to get into position is just because he's not used to their system yet? Or does he not even get the basics right?A lot of it is the system, especially when the guards aren't doing their jobs as well. He got a couple of near blocks that were called fouls -- like I said it was closely called -- but he could have avoided those calls if he jumped just a little differently.

[timvp]

Nice job, ChumpDumper. Glad you made the trip.

I'm worried about foul trouble with Mahinmi in the D-League. The D-League calls ticky tack summer league level fouls. It's actually most likely the most foul happy league in the world since it's full of refs trying to make a name for themselves and are under orders to call just about everything. While NBA refs will let some things good, those D-League refs call everything so they can prove they don't "miss" calls. Mahinmi, because he's physical and also because he's raw, is going to be in foul trouble a whole lot.

It sucks that the point guards sucked. I notice the team had 5 assists. That screams of bad point guard play. They drafted like eight point guards, you'd think they could find at least some scrub PG who can bring the ball up and pass . . .

Looks like CJ Watson scored well. Actually, I can imagine how he played since he's pretty much a me-first ball hog with pretty good speed and finishing ability.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL @ the box...CJ Watson's revenge?He's going to be the non-former Longhorn star of the team.

RGV has two quality D-League point guards in Watson and Quannas White. It's funny that White had to go through the open tryouts to get on the team -- or maybe Coach Hoffman (who coached White in the ABA after White's first D-League stint as a Toro) simply arranged it that way so they wouldn't have to see him go to some other team had he gone into the available player pool.

[E20]

Anybody know how much the pay generally is in D-Leauge?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm worried about foul trouble with Mahinmi in the D-League. The D-League calls ticky tack summer league level fouls. It's actually most likely the most foul happy league in the world since it's full of refs trying to make a name for themselves and are under orders to call just about everything. While NBA refs will let some things good, those D-League refs call everything so they can prove they don't "miss" calls. Mahinmi, because he's physical and also because he's raw, is going to be in foul trouble a whole lot.Agreed. Anthony Fuqua has been dealing with that issue for two seasons already. There are some high-quality refs out there as well, so much of the time it's the luck of the draw.


It sucks that the point guards sucked. I notice the team had 5 assists. That screams of bad point guard play. They drafted like eight point guards, you'd think they could find at least some scrub PG who can bring the ball up and pass . . .Squeaky needs to work on his decision-making; he has som potential. I know Dorsey has played better than Friday night, too. In the meantime, I'm all for Langford's running the offense.


Looks like CJ Watson scored well. Actually, I can imagine how he played since he's pretty much a me-first ball hog with pretty good speed and finishing ability.I think his style fits a Hoffman offense pretty well; probably less so our system, but he'd still get a lot of burn.

[whottt]

The Spurs need to bring Drob in to tutor Ian on how do to some of this stuff...

Moses Malone tutored Hakeem after college....worked out well.
Kareem is tutoring Andrew Bynum...that's working out well.

The Spurs need to call Drob in on this...like Ian he came to basketball late and had to adapt to a rapidly growing body...and they have a similar physical attributes that are the strongest part of their game...it's not going to do much good to have Duncan tutor Ian in practice because Ian is never going to have the wide base that Duncan has...

Ian will never be able to score on the block in the same manner than Duncan can...but he can learn to use his speed and length to get to the basket and or draw fouls like Drob did...and Drob knows a thing or two about how to turn into a great shotblocker at an advanced age.

[Bruno]

A translation of an interview that Mahinmi made just before yesterday's game :
http://www.rmc.fr/edito/sport/17132/-c-est-la-regle-du-jeu-/

Ian, how do you feel after leaving Spurs?
First, I want to say that it is not definitive. I'm still under contract with SA. However, with the return of Robert Horry, there is no more room for me in the roster. It is a little difficult but I rather look at the future. I arrived to Austin yesterday evening. I will play my first match today. Now, it is not the end of the world. It's still professional basketball. There are good players in this League. I must give 100% to improve myself. I am only 21 years old. I know that I have the level to play in NBA but I agree to play first in D-League. It is a new experience that starts.

How Gregg Popovich did you say that?
He proposed me two options after the game against Atlanta : either I remained with San Antonio but I spend all games in a suit behind the bench, or I went to Austin with a playing time of 35 minutes per game. Under this perspective, I rather take the second option (laughing)

Do you hope to come back to Spurs this year?
To be honest, It will be very complicated. Two years ago, Ronny (Turiaf) had left in D-League (it was the CBA in fact) because he returned from his heart surgery. Lakers needed to make him play because he needed to get back his rhythm. My case isn't the same at all. With the return of Robert Horry from injuries, I have a legend of the basketball before me. I can do nothing about that. We are NBA champions, Spurs have a great roster. It is the rule of the game when you are in a team like that. There are players who have played together for many years while I am little rookie.

It will be a whole new universe ?
I know it, I will live something different but I also find that very fun. I am with a team with young talented players. I have the feeling to relive the beginning of professional career in Le Havre. We laugh together when we go at the practice, we eat together. And, believe me, it is not a fully crappy league! Arenas are smaller, the level isn't as high but ti's still good basketball. And then if my timetable allows it , I hope to go back sometimes in SA to practice with Spurs.

[OM_fever]

Thanks for the interview. It's interesting to see that he doesn't consider it as a pure demotion. It's encouraging, he will really try hard to earn his spot, not as if it was purely natural, he knows how hard it's going to be.

[Obstructed_View]

And, believe me, it is not a fully crappy league!
:lol

[picnroll]

Did Mahinmi take any mid-range shots or were the buckets all around the basket?

That's 14-15 from the FT line including pre-season. At least that part of his game seems to have come around.

[ChumpDumper]

Did Mahinmi take any mid-range shots or were the buckets all around the basket?Around the basket. For now they are developing him down low and leaving Pittsnogle at the arc.



So are the toros being coached in "the spurs way", or are they just being "coached". does Pop have anything to do with how the coaching is done?They are most definitely using the Spurs system.

[ShoogarBear]

And, believe me, it is not a fully crappy league!

:rollin

Stern should use that in the ads.

[jman3000]

Mahinmi seems to have a good attitude. I'm surprised Pop gave him a choice.


I really doubt he was given a choice... just pop trying to make light of a situation where he'd be leaving the team. no way in hell do you leave a developing player to rot on your bench when you have an opportunity to let him blossom in Austin.

[BeerIsGood!]

I really doubt he was given a choice... just pop trying to make light of a situation where he'd be leaving the team. no way in hell do you leave a developing player to rot on your bench when you have an opportunity to let him blossom in Austin.
Pop asking him had a bit of CIA to it. Ian being in Austin was never in doubt, but Pop probably wanted to hear his response, to hear him say that he wants the work.

[FirebatMIV]

Toros defeat Bakersfield Jam 92-90

Ian once again fouled out, in about 25 minutes, but did have 11 pts and 9 rebs. Shot FT really well (7-9). Didn't shoot well from the field (2-8).

Langford led the Toros with 34 pts and 6 assists, Justin Bowen led them with 15 boards.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Langford is really impressing me with these first 2 games.
As for Mahinmi, that's not so bad, although I was thinking he'd have bigger numbers.

[ducks]

give ian some time with new teamates he will get bigger numbers

[timvp]

Hopefully ChumpDumper was at the game :hungry:

I checked early and the Toros were up. Then they got down near the end. I thought I saw them down by four with 35 seconds to go. Sounds like it was a last second comeback.

As far as Mahinmi ... I knew he was going to struggle with fouls but this is pretty ridiculous. The refs are foul happy but he can't be fouling out in under 25 minutes.

[whottt]

As far as Mahinmi ... I knew he was going to struggle with fouls but this is pretty ridiculous. The refs are foul happy but he can't be fouling out in under 25 minutes.


He can be if he's trying to develop his shotblocking technique...


3 blocks tonight!

Plus 2 steals.

And another good night at the FT line....

And a very good night rebounding.


He needs to be allowed to foul out of some games with no reprecussions to develop his block technique.

[timvp]

Last game he fouled out too ... and had zero blocks. Most of Mahinmi's fouls (in summer league and Europe) come defending the low post and in loose ball situations. Hopefully CD was there and can tell us whether that is still the case or he's just fouling now when going up for blocks.

[ducks]

if he fouls going for loose balls that is bad
he can not do that

[Bruno]

I don't want to start a thread just for that so I post it here but Mahinmi's attitude freaking rules.

A translation of what he said to in the French press :


I know that billions of people would like to be in my place and I realize how lucky I am. However you had to know that I work very hard, a little more each day, to know what my real level is and to reach my full upside.

I really like this guy. :)

[timvp]

Nice find :tu

I'm interested to see how Mahinmi plays tomorrow. That game will probably be a first fair test seeing as he finally was able to get some practices in with the team. Right now, the most important things to see out of him are rebounding, blocks and staying out of foul trouble. Scoring isn't much of a concern at all, at this point.