Mavericks file protest over loss to Pacers

[Pistons < Spurs]

The Mavericks know that protesting a loss won't change anything about their 111-107 loss to Indiana on Friday.

But if it draws more attention to what the Mavericks view as incorrect officiating and leads to change, then it will be worth the effort.

They filed an official protest with NBA officials Saturday about the loss to the Pacers. At issue was a 3-pointer by Troy Murphy that came early in the second quarter. Owner Mark Cuban said the referees were alerted to the fact that Murphy was inside the arc.

"[The] official scorer said he notified the crew, and no action was taken," Cuban said. "We are protesting that a correctible error was not corrected."

The lead referee Friday was Bennett Salvatore, who has a history of controversy with the Mavericks. He also made one of the most curious calls of the night on a fast break by Devin Harris, on which a non-shooting foul was called. That play was not included in the Mavericks' protest, nor were many others.

"We didn't protest any other calls, but we certainly questioned quite a few that went for us and against us," Cuban said.

Avery Johnson was ejected in the game, and Dirk Nowitzki and Murphy received technical fouls.

Most likely, the protest will yield no satisfaction for the Mavericks, other than peace of mind. The most extreme action would be replaying the rest of the game from the point that the incident occurred. But even Cuban admitted that's not the point.

"It puts it on record that it happened," Cuban said. "Hopefully it will lead to procedures being put in place by the league to keep this from happening again."

League officials did not respond to emails Saturday night.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/mavs/stories/112507dnspomavsdate.3750b371.html

[Horry For 3!]

:cry

[BruceBowenFan]

now that is sad

[Findog]

I don't think this is about sore loserism so much as it is that Bennett Salvatore is a shitty fuckin' ref, and all 30 teams would benefit from him not officiating games anymore. Not that Stern would ever discipline or punish a ref, Crawford-Duncan aside.

[jman3000]

i'd like to see the play in question.. anybody have a link?

[Findog]

i'd like to see the play in question.. anybody have a link?

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2007/11/24/123759/26

[SpursWillOwn]

asterisk the pacers win then :)

[Findog]

asterisk the pacers win then :)

I honestly don't think that's the point. We played shitty, we lost. And we had over 30 FTAs in the game, that's not the issue either.

How does a ref get fired in the NBA? It seems like nothing short of messing with the point spread will get you in trouble. Salvatore is as bad as they come.

[timvp]

http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/story/2007/11/24/123759/26If Devin Harris would have shot the ball instead of accentuating the flop, he not only would have gone to the line he probably also makes the basket.

Yeah he should have gone to the line but some of the blame goes to the unnecessary floppage.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sorry, but the reason it's called a "shooting foul" is that you have to actually SHOOT THE GODDAMN BALL.

Ref: *TWEET* Foul! Out on the side.
Player: I was shooting the ball.
Ref: Really? Where's the ball now?
Player: Right here in my hands.
Ref: I thought you said you were shooting the ball.
Player: Well, I was GONNA shoot it. I was running toward the basket and stuff. Doesn't that count?
Ref: Did you actually shoot the ball?
Player: Well, not actually. But I was GONNA.
Ref: *sigh* Do I really have to tell you?
Player: I'll take it out on the side.

IMO it was a good call. Even if it wasn't, in a season where they are making a point of cutting way down on contiuation calls it's not remotely surprising that they'd make that call, especially if the player doesn't have the sense to let go of the ball. The sense of entitlement from the Mavericks just staggers me.

And I could have sworn that the three pointer was called by Violet Palmer, NOT Salvatore. I did actually watch the game. The Mavs were seething and never really got past it. They bitched about that call during every timeout. I think it contributed to the hard fouls and AJ's ejection. Cuban really only has himself to blame for that loss; it's not surprising that he'd file a protest.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Should've thrown it up.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

And what about the 3 by Murphy?

[Obstructed_View]

And what about the 3 by Murphy?
Mark Followill said it was a flat blown call, that Troy was clearly inside the arc and that Violet just gave the wrong hand signal.

Funny how the integrity of the game only enters Mark Cuban's mind following a loss or a call that goes against him, though.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

He was inside the arc. It was just flat wrong. Funny how the integrity of the game only enters Mark Cuban's mind following a loss or a call that goes against him, though.
Is there a video?

[Obstructed_View]

Is there a video?
That's why I changed my quote, because I just accepted what Followill said without seeing the play. Knowing Mavs fans, I'm sure it's around here somewhere.

[Shank]

Eh...who gives a crap right now anyway? Only about 70 more games to fix things.

[Obstructed_View]

Eh...who gives a crap right now anyway? Only about 70 more games to fix things.
Well, a loss might make a difference down the road, so I understand why it's important. The Mavs lost by more than that one point, so it didn't matter in the the outcome of the game unless you factor in all those technical and flagrant free throws that resulted later in the game. I really think the Mavs would have had a better chance of winning that game if they'd just let it go, and that was a much bigger factor in the loss.

[da_suns_fan__]

Cuban continues to embarrass himself and all Mavericks fans.

What a douche this guy is.

"HE WAS INSIDE THE THREE POINT LINE!!! WE WANT THE SCORE CORRECTED NOW!!!"

"Ok...you still lost by three".

[Obstructed_View]

Another interesting thing is that it looks like AJ was ejected but there were no technical fouls called, and therefore no free throws awarded. Anybody know offhand what the rule is regarding that? The NBA should probably make a rule stating that for every fifteen seconds that you don't leave the court after an ejection, a free throw is awarded to the other team.

[Tippecanoe]

mark cuban = bill polian

[SpursFanFirst]

Coaches get mad all the time, but the way AJ was going after that ref in the video was a tad over the top :dramaquee

[Obstructed_View]

Coaches get mad all the time, but the way AJ was going after that ref in the video was a tad over the top :dramaquee
I really think having to hear Cuban screech at the officials about three pointer for the entire game just finally got to him, as well as the rest of the team. That "we can't get a break" mentality can be debilitating. I think he just boiled over.

[FromWayDowntown]

Another interesting thing is that it looks like AJ was ejected but there were no technical fouls called, and therefore no free throws awarded. Anybody know offhand what the rule is regarding that? The NBA should probably make a rule stating that for every fifteen seconds that you don't leave the court after an ejection, a free throw is awarded to the other team.

There were free throws for AJ's two technicals.

8:36 Murphy Turnover:Lost Ball (2 TO) Steal:Terry (2 ST)
8:34 Dunleavy Foul:Personal (3 PF)
8:34 Timeout: Official
8:34 Johnson Foul:Technical 8:34
8:34 [IND 95-89] Granger Free Throw Technical (20 PTS)
8:34 Johnson Foul:Technical 8:34
8:34 Granger Free Throw Technical missed
8:34 Johnson Ejection:Second Technical 8:34

http://www.nba.com/games/20071123/DALIND/playbyplay.html

[Obstructed_View]

Thank you. ESPN has only Dirk and Murphy's technicals listed in the box score.

[SpursFanFirst]

I really think having to hear Cuban screech at the officials about three pointer for the entire game just finally got to him, as well as the rest of the team. That "we can't get a break" mentality can be debilitating. I think he just boiled over.

Yeah, I agree. I can see how that would be the case.
But, I don't think it's just this one game. AJ seems to be a bit of a hot head, ready to explode at any moment and any situation.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I agree. I can see how that would be the case.
But, I don't think it's just this one game. AJ seems to be a bit of a hot head, ready to explode at any moment and any situation.
He has been a whiner since he came to Dallas, it's true. I think it's the envirionment. Mark Cuban's lack of class has to seep through to everything. Or maybe it's AJ's wife. She's certainly made some news with her inability to control her mouth or her temper.

[JamStone]

Coaches get mad all the time, but the way AJ was going after that ref in the video was a tad over the top :dramaquee

I would assume that Avery's reaction was more than likely an accumulation of what he perceived was poor calls against his team.


As for the Devin Harris no and-one, it is at least arguable that Dunleavy fouled him before he made a move to shoot the ball on the first bump before he dribbled the ball one more time. If that's the foul called, it is NOT a shooting foul.

[Warlord23]

File a protest?! Classic Cuban bitch move

[BUMP]

Cuban continues to embarrass himself and all Mavericks fans.

What a douche this guy is.

"HE WAS INSIDE THE THREE POINT LINE!!! WE WANT THE SCORE CORRECTED NOW!!!"

"Ok...you still lost by three".

Suns continue to not make it out of the Western conference














:lol

[boutons_]

Cuban is an embarrassment. an adolescent "dork with money".

[jman3000]

:lol @ swim move.

[Obstructed_View]

I would assume that Avery's reaction was more than likely an accumulation of what he perceived was poor calls against his team.


As for the Devin Harris no and-one, it is at least arguable that Dunleavy fouled him before he made a move to shoot the ball on the first bump before he dribbled the ball one more time. If that's the foul called, it is NOT a shooting foul.
And just to be redundant, it's not called a "making a move to shoot" foul. :lol There's no "in the act of" if you still have the ball in your hand.

[Armando]

I see the Mavs still have not gotten over Salvatore's calls in the Finals.

[Armando]

I don't think this is about sore loserism so much as it is that Bennett Salvatore is a shitty fuckin' ref, and all 30 teams would benefit from him not officiating games anymore. Not that Stern would ever discipline or punish a ref, Crawford-Duncan aside.

Salvatore he really is awful. I rather see Joey Crawford in the game.

[ducks]

they loss by 4 had aj not been thrown out and got the 2 tech called on him it could have been differnet

[Findog]

I'm sorry, but the reason it's called a "shooting foul" is that you have to actually SHOOT THE GODDAMN BALL.

Ref: *TWEET* Foul! Out on the side.
Player: I was shooting the ball.
Ref: Really? Where's the ball now?
Player: Right here in my hands.
Ref: I thought you said you were shooting the ball.
Player: Well, I was GONNA shoot it. I was running toward the basket and stuff. Doesn't that count?
Ref: Did you actually shoot the ball?
Player: Well, not actually. But I was GONNA.
Ref: *sigh* Do I really have to tell you?
Player: I'll take it out on the side.

IMO it was a good call. Even if it wasn't, in a season where they are making a point of cutting way down on contiuation calls it's not remotely surprising that they'd make that call, especially if the player doesn't have the sense to let go of the ball. The sense of entitlement from the Mavericks just staggers me.

And I could have sworn that the three pointer was called by Violet Palmer, NOT Salvatore. I did actually watch the game. The Mavs were seething and never really got past it. They bitched about that call during every timeout. I think it contributed to the hard fouls and AJ's ejection. Cuban really only has himself to blame for that loss; it's not surprising that he'd file a protest.

Homer forum. The reason the ball didn't leave Harris' hands is because Murphy hacked the shit out of him. He was clearly lifting his arms up in a shooting motion. What the fuck do you think he's trying to do there inside the paint on a breakaway when no teammates are near him? We lost because we couldn't stop the Pacers, not because of seething over calls.

Salvatore is the lead ref, is he not? Isn't it on him to correct the 3-point error when the official scorers notify him what's taken place? What's so hard about making an adjustment on a clear error regarding the 3-pointer? Take a point away from Indiana, we still lose. That's not the point. I've been watched NBA games for 20 years and countless times a shooter is incorrectly awarded a three for a long two, and it gets corrected every single time. I've never seen that before, a referee refusing to correct the score after the official scorers have brought the error to his attention. I can just imagine the meltdown here if it had happened to the Spurs in a close game. Just get it right, whether it goes against your team or not.

[Findog]

Well, a loss might make a difference down the road, so I understand why it's important. The Mavs lost by more than that one point, so it didn't matter in the the outcome of the game unless you factor in all those technical and flagrant free throws that resulted later in the game. I really think the Mavs would have had a better chance of winning that game if they'd just let it go, and that was a much bigger factor in the loss.

We lost because our defense sucked and the Pacers got whatever shot they wanted pretty much all night long, not bc of the calls. We had HCA throughout the playoffs last year, it really came in handy. :rolleyes

[Findog]

Mark Followill said it was a flat blown call, that Troy was clearly inside the arc and that Violet just gave the wrong hand signal.

Funny how the integrity of the game only enters Mark Cuban's mind following a loss or a call that goes against him, though.

You fundamentally misunderstand his officiating jihad if you think this is only about calls that go against the Mavericks.

[Findog]

Another interesting thing is that it looks like AJ was ejected but there were no technical fouls called, and therefore no free throws awarded. Anybody know offhand what the rule is regarding that? The NBA should probably make a rule stating that for every fifteen seconds that you don't leave the court after an ejection, a free throw is awarded to the other team.


I thought you said you watched the game:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2082917&postcount=10

You would've known they got FTs if you had watched it.

Kneejerk anti-Cuban forum. This is about Salvatore and how shitty he is, not because a couple of bad calls went against the Mavericks. The refs aren't perfect, and every team gets a few bad calls against them in every game. And they played a shitty game all-around, this isn't about being cheated out of a W. Our lack of defense contributed far more to the loss than the techs and not getting the continuation on the Harris breakaway. There have been thousands of times where a shooter erroneously gets credited with a three when he made a long two, and it will be retroactively corrected by the official scorers after consultation with the officials. WTF is Salvatore's problem?

He's one of the worst refs in the league, it boggles the mind that he's allowed to work games deep into the playoffs.

[Findog]

If Devin Harris would have shot the ball instead of accentuating the flop, he not only would have gone to the line he probably also makes the basket.

Yeah he should have gone to the line but some of the blame goes to the unnecessary floppage.

His arm is going up in a shooting motion when Dunmurphy hacks the shit out of him and doesn't allow the ball to leave his hands. There's no way he's getting an And-1 there, because the defender made sure the ball wasn't going anywhere near the hoop. He should've gotten continuation. Yes, Devin is a noted flopper, but that doesn't really apply here.

Again, this isn't about seething over bad calls in a game you lost. Salvatore is a detriment to every game he officiates. That to me is the bigger issue.

[Findog]

Cuban continues to embarrass himself and all Mavericks fans.

What a douche this guy is.

"HE WAS INSIDE THE THREE POINT LINE!!! WE WANT THE SCORE CORRECTED NOW!!!"

"Ok...you still lost by three".

And you continue to JUST.NOT.GET.IT.

I would think a true Suns fan would appreciate how awful Salvatore is. Unless you want to argue that the Suns weren't trying to call timeout and Odom and Walton didn't rape Nash repeatedly while Salvatore just stood there with his hands in his pants.

Friday night, the Mavs got screwed. Before that it was the Suns. Before that it was the Knicks. This guy is just not an NBA caliber ref. Period.

[Armando]

And you continue to JUST.NOT.GET.IT.

I would think a true Suns fan would appreciate how awful Salvatore is. Unless you want to argue that the Suns weren't trying to call timeout and Odom and Walton didn't rape Nash repeatedly while Salvatore just stood there with his hands in his pants.

Friday night, the Mavs got screwed. Before that it was the Suns. Before that it was the Knicks. This guy is just not an NBA caliber ref. Period.


Yes Salvatore is awful but Cuban would have been better served handling this in private. Why antagonize Stern and the refs in public? Chances are Stern won't do anything to Salvatore and he will continue to work Mavs games.

[Findog]

Yes Salvatore is awful but Cuban would have been better served handling this in private. Why antagonize Stern and the refs in public? Chances are Stern won't do anything to Salvatore and he will continue to work Mavs games.

If filing an official protest over clearly wrong calls antagonizes Stern and the refs, then what the fuck can you do? I can't stand that mindset, that if you have the temerity to question a call, you're "showing them up" and "calling them out." Salvatore didn't do his job properly,and he doesn't have a leg to stand on here. Teams "handle stuff in private" all the time. They send tapes to the League office asking for clarification on points of emphasis and so forth.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I disagree with the talk of no benefit to filing a protest with the league.

The Tampa Bay Bucs filed a protest with the NFL over a challenge rule and ended up getting vindication (no change in result, but it does make note of it and probably affects future rule enforcement).

[picnroll]

Still waiting for Cuban to bitch about a ref where the Mavs benefited from a blown. I remember a couple of years ago a real bad call on a Stoudemire block at the end that won the Mavs the game and Cuban coming off the court with a great big shit eating grin on his face.

[Findog]

Still waiting for Cuban to bitch about a ref where the Mavs benefited from a blown. I remember a couple of years ago a real bad call on a Stoudemire block at the end that won the Mavs the game and Cuban coming off the court with a great big shit eating grin on his face.

RTFA:


"We didn't protest any other calls, but we certainly questioned quite a few that went for us and against us," Cuban said.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

And where are these fans saying protests don't do anything when any other team files them?

[mavsfan1000]

I see the Mavs still have not gotten over Salvatore's calls in the Finals.
It would have been unnoticed if Salvatore didn't screw up so much again. He is a flat out horrible ref.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I see the Mavs still have not gotten over Salvatore's calls in the Finals.

I don't know you, so I'm not sure what your particular reaction has been, but a Suns fan complaining about Mavs fans bringing up old wounds is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82195)

[Armando]

I don't know you, so I'm not sure what your particular reaction has been, but a Suns fan complaining about Mavs fans bringing up old wounds is pretty hilarious and hypocritical. (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82195)


I won't lie that series in the playoffs was a bitter pill to swallow especially Game 3. But what is done is done. The Suns had the lead late in Game 5 and could not hold on.

[El Jefe]

I was recording stats for this game. I noticed Murphy being given credit for a 3 when he was clearly inside the line.

The funny thing is, Violet Palmer and Salvatore were standing on either side of the player as he took the shot. Neither made ANY signal as to wether it was a 2 or a 3.

My score was off for the entire game, I kept waiting for a correction, figuring the broadcast just got it wrong. I didn't realize until after that it was indeed the official scorer who got it wrong.

Call it whiney if you want, but I think the Mavs were right to protest this game. The "score" was within 3 down the stretch, when it really should have been 2, which may have changed end game strategy.

The Devin Harris play came after two pretty hard fouls, one on Brandon Bass, one on Troy Murphy. Murphy and Nowitski squared off after the foul on Murphy, and both were T'd up. It initally looked like they had called a flagrant 1, and instead it was called a non-shooting foul. AJ going nuts may have been an attempt to protect his players, though he was plenty pissed about not getting free throws as well. That's a call that can be pretty subjective.

But the Murphy 3-pointer......definitely a screw up on someone's part.

[Obstructed_View]

You fundamentally misunderstand his officiating jihad if you think this is only about calls that go against the Mavericks.
You fundamentally suck Mark Cuban's dick no matter what he does, so if I point out when the Mavs beat the Kings on an obvious goaltend and Cuban sat there shooting the shit with the Maloofs instead of complaining, you'll probably have some excuse handy.


I thought you said you watched the game:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2082917&postcount=10

You would've known they got FTs if you had watched it.
Oh my God. I'm sorry. You caught me. I actually switched back and forth between that and the ESPN game. I'm a terrible Mavs fan. :dramaquee

Make sure you go tell everyone how you "owned" me again. :lol


Kneejerk anti-Cuban forum. This is about Salvatore and how shitty he is, not because a couple of bad calls went against the Mavericks. The refs aren't perfect, and every team gets a few bad calls against them in every game. And they played a shitty game all-around, this isn't about being cheated out of a W. Our lack of defense contributed far more to the loss than the techs and not getting the continuation on the Harris breakaway. There have been thousands of times where a shooter erroneously gets credited with a three when he made a long two, and it will be retroactively corrected by the official scorers after consultation with the officials. WTF is Salvatore's problem?

He's one of the worst refs in the league, it boggles the mind that he's allowed to work games deep into the playoffs.

You are really the wrong person to be accusing anyone of knee-jerk anything. If you don't like what I'm saying, then prove me wrong: Mark Cuban only complains about games that he loses. Was it a terrible call? Yep.

Mark Cuban is like Mavsfan1000; when he says "the officiating was bad both ways" it means "we got a ton of calls in our favor but I don't want to admit it so I can be righteously indignant when the pendulum swings the other way.

[da_suns_fan__]

And you continue to JUST.NOT.GET.IT.

I would think a true Suns fan would appreciate how awful Salvatore is. Unless you want to argue that the Suns weren't trying to call timeout and Odom and Walton didn't rape Nash repeatedly while Salvatore just stood there with his hands in his pants.

Friday night, the Mavs got screwed. Before that it was the Suns. Before that it was the Knicks. This guy is just not an NBA caliber ref. Period.

Difference: The Suns didn't file a protest over it. There's no way the NBA is ever gonna change an outcome due to a single call so there's no use crying over it.

Especially considering the play happened early in the game.

The players couldn't get over it. The coaching staff couldn't get over it. Maybe that stems from their whiny owner who cries about officiating after every loss.

Stay classy Mavericks.

[Findog]

You fundamentally suck Mark Cuban's dick no matter what he does

No need to continue this discussion any further. There's plenty of things he's done that has hurt this team more than helped, but he's right about this. You criticize him no matter what he does, so I'm not sure how I could ever reason with your kneejerking bias.


You are really the wrong person to be accusing anyone of knee-jerk anything. If you don't like what I'm saying, then prove me wrong: Mark Cuban only complains about games that he loses. Was it a terrible call? Yep.


RTFA:


"We didn't protest any other calls, but we certainly questioned quite a few that went for us and against us," Cuban said.

The most extreme action would be replaying the rest of the game from the point that the incident occurred. But even Cuban admitted that's not the point.

"It puts it on record that it happened," Cuban said. "Hopefully it will lead to procedures being put in place by the league to keep this from happening again."

[Findog]

Difference: The Suns didn't file a protest over it. There's no way the NBA is ever gonna change an outcome due to a single call so there's no use crying over it.


It isn't about changing the outcome. Besides, the Mavs didn't play well enough to win, they didn't deserve to win the game.

And the Suns are as whiny as they come. They're still biting pillows over the semifinals.

[SequSpur]

WTF? He wasn't shooting. He didn't attempt at all. Avery is a fucking douche bag just like the rest of you mav fans that claim regular season championships....

To Fucking bad isn't it?

[E20]

I could understand if this was a crucial game or in the PO's, but ughhhhhhhhhhh it's not. Live with it. Mavs shouldn't have beend own against a shitty Pacers team anyway.

[da_suns_fan__]

It isn't about changing the outcome. Besides, the Mavs didn't play well enough to win, they didn't deserve to win the game.

And the Suns are as whiny as they come. They're still biting pillows over the semifinals.


Don't POUT, you big baby. :cry

As long as Cuban keeps making an ass out of himself and the team, we're gonna continue to discuss it.

When I first read the article, I knew FINDOG would try to put some spin on it.

"Don't laugh. Cuban is just trying to help all the teams out."

In the Suns last game, their was a loose ball that the refs incorrectly called out on the Suns. Im gonna email Sarver and tell him he should file a formal protest.
:donkey

[Findog]

When I first read the article, I knew FINDOG would try to put some spin on it.

"Don't laugh. Cuban is just trying to help all the teams out."



Sometimes it's as simple as that. Again, refs make mistakes. There are blown calls in every game. The Mavs aren't filing protests every time they lose. It's a pattern and a problem with this particular ref. I would think you would understand that, but I guess not.

[SequSpur]

Sometimes it's as simple as that. Again, refs make mistakes. There are blown calls in every game. The Mavs aren't filing protests every time they lose. It's a pattern and a problem with this particular ref. I would think you would understand that, but I guess not.

I didn't see a problem with the call. He wasn't shooting it. It wasn't a flagrant, it wasn't a break away, he went for the ball before he pulled up.

As for someone toeing the line on a 3 and the call is missed... wgaf? It wasn't reviewed, plus Dallas had no business even keeping that game close...

Dial 1 800 wahhhhhh...

[El Jefe]

As for someone toeing the line on a 3 and the call is missed... wgaf? It wasn't reviewed, plus Dallas had no business even keeping that game close...


He didn't toe the line, if he was touching the line at all, it was the back of his heel. He was WELL inside the line.

Plus I don't think the ref screwed up. I never saw a signal that it was a 3. I think the official scorer just ASSUMED it was a 3. As the game was in Indy, that seems like something that should be looked into.

[Findog]

I didn't see a problem with the call. He wasn't shooting it. It wasn't a flagrant, it wasn't a break away, he went for the ball before he pulled up.

As for someone toeing the line on a 3 and the call is missed... wgaf?

Just agree to disagree on those calls: the shooter was a foot inside the line, and Devin's arm was going up in a shooting motion. The ball didn't leave his hands because Dunleavy hacked the shit out of him. But other than that, in the grand scheme of things, I agree with you. It's just one game. It won't make a difference on playoff seedings come April. And our shitty defense lost us that game, not Bennett Salvatore. When I saw this story posted, I knew it was going to bring out the familiar litany of "Cuban is a whiny, sore loser" and I really don't think that's what it's about at all. I think his anti-ref jihad is fundamentally misunderstood, the perception being he only cares when its his teams ox being gored. Given his history though, it doesn't really do him or his team any good to complain. Even if he has a legitimate beef, it's going to be the same reaction to his "antics."

[SequSpur]

Cuban's act is so old. I really don't think hardly anyone gives a shit what he does, thinks or says anymore. It's 2007. My friend called me this morning and said, did you see Avery go off, did you hear about the Mavs and I said, No, Fuck them, how come your ass didn't show up at Chili's last night for some drink? He said it was late, I said, the crowns were good, you missed out... oh well, life went on... you see? very fucking simple..

Your fucking team doesn't even equate to shit. They are a bunch of fucking losers. And the worst thing of all, you're a loser for likeing losers.

That just fucking sucks.

[Findog]

Your fucking team doesn't even equate to shit. They are a bunch of fucking losers. And the worst thing of all, you're a loser for likeing losers.

That just fucking sucks.

And this is why you're one of the most entertaining posters here. Your shtick is great. "Tony Parker is the best fucking player in the NBA." :lol

[da_suns_fan__]

Cuban's act is so old. I really don't think hardly anyone gives a shit what he does, thinks or says anymore. It's 2007. My friend called me this morning and said, did you see Avery go off, did you hear about the Mavs and I said, No, Fuck them, how come your ass didn't show up at Chili's last night for some drink? He said it was late, I said, the crowns were good, you missed out... oh well, life went on... you see? very fucking simple..

Your fucking team doesn't even equate to shit. They are a bunch of fucking losers. And the worst thing of all, you're a loser for likeing losers.

That just fucking sucks.


You tool. The Mavs are so irrelevant that your friend called you up to ask about it?

Youre just so insecure you can't even enjoy the sport. You wish people were calling up others to talk about a Spurs game.

[SequSpur]

You tool. The Mavs are so irrelevant that your friend called you up to ask about it?

Youre just so insecure you can't even enjoy the sport. You wish people were calling up others to talk about a Spurs game.

Do you mean talk about Spurs Championships?

[SequSpur]

You tool. The Mavs are so irrelevant that your friend called you up to ask about it?

Youre just so insecure you can't even enjoy the sport. You wish people were calling up others to talk about a Spurs game.

insecure? Yeah, the only fucking thing that I am insecure about is where are they going to fit a 5th trophy cuz the case is full bitch ass.

[da_suns_fan__]

Do you mean talk about Spurs Championships?


Why would anyone call anyone else to ask about a game that neither watched?


"Did you watch the Spurs game?"

"No."

"Me neither."

:lol

[da_suns_fan__]

insecure? Yeah, the only fucking thing that I am insecure about is where are they going to fit a 5th trophy cuz the case is full bitch ass.


Lol. You douche.

Maybe if they pan to Eva enough in every Spurs game, people might catch a glimpse of the action and might know who a few of their players are.

"Tony Parker? Who?"

"Mr. Longoria"

"OHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

[Findog]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/25/mavericks-file-protest-over-loss-to-pacers/

The Mavericks suffered a tough loss at the hands of the Pacers the other night, and they seem intent on making sure that the officials that called the game share in at least some of their misery. It apparently wasn't enough for Avery Johnson to go out in a blaze of glory in protest of a terrible call by Bennett Salvarore; the Mavericks have now gone a step further and decided to file an official protest with the league over the officiating in this game.

[The Mavericks] filed an official protest with NBA officials Saturday about the loss to the Pacers. At issue was a 3-pointer by Troy Murphy that came early in the second quarter. Owner Mark Cuban said the referees were alerted to the fact that Murphy was inside the arc.

"[The] official scorer said he notified the crew, and no action was taken," Cuban said. "We are protesting that a correctible error was not corrected."

Now obviously, this protest goes a bit deeper than an incorrect call made on a three-pointer in the second quarter. The game was not won or lost on this play, and it's not even the play that Avery got himself ejected over. The Mavericks' organization believes that Salvatore has it out for them, dating back to the 2006 Finals. So a series of perceived incorrect calls in the Pacers game where Salvatore was the lead official is what led to the decision to file the protest.


I think this is actually a reasonable move by Cuban, I'll explain after the jump.


We all know that the protest will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing the outcome of the game. The league is not going to replay the game from the point of this incorrect call, and it's not likely that any officials working the game will be reprimanded in any way, at least publicly. Cuban's point here though isn't to have any of that happen. It's to put the fact that there was a correctible call that the officials chose not to correct on the record, so that the league is forced to take a closer look at these types of plays.


Say what you want about Mark Cuban, but since he became the Mavericks' owner, he's been on a crusade to fix the officiating in the NBA and make it more consistent across the board. If this protest helps the league put a policy in place that prevents referees from unilaterally deciding the outcomes of specific plays during the course of a game -- even in situations where there's evidence to the contrary -- then I'm all for it.

[picnroll]

RTFA:

"We didn't protest any other calls, but we certainly questioned quite a few that went for us and against us," Cuban said.

The most extreme action would be replaying the rest of the game from the point that the incident occurred. But even Cuban admitted that's not the point.

"It puts it on record that it happened," Cuban said. "Hopefully it will lead to procedures being put in place by the league to keep this from happening again."

Show me the quote about a specific call that went his way that he publicly commented on, just one, not some vague "but we certainly questioned quite a few that went for us and against us" BS. He's whined about innumerable specific calls against the Mavs. Watch the troll on the sidelines some time where every call against the Mavs he's got his ugly mug all screwed up over.

[SequSpur]

Lol. You douche.

Maybe if they pan to Eva enough in every Spurs game, people might catch a glimpse of the action and might know who a few of their players are.

"Tony Parker? Who?"

"Mr. Longoria"

"OHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
http://www.desperateblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/eva-longoria-tony-parker-nba-championship-cups.jpg

[SequSpur]

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/Steve-Nash_0.jpg

:donkey

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

:lol Haven't seen that one before.

[Kriz-Maxima]

Smh...i wish i didnt laugh at that.

[mavs>spurs2]

Fuck Cuban, he's a whiny little bitch and hes making the organization look bad pulling stunts like this

That said, the reason Harris didn't shoot the ball is because it looked like he was shoved in the back in the act of going up and tried to catch his balance.

[ElNono]

Cuban sure ain't filing protests for every Diop goaltend. He seems to have at least one every game. He had yet another one last night against the Bucks right in the 4th quarter. The other team ain't getting those two points back either.
And the whole Salvatore crusade is a bullshit excuse. Even with bad calls, if the Mavs win that game you can bet there's no protest. You know that, I know that.
It's like AJ defending Josh Howard for going after Brad Miller in the preseason in order to 'send a message'... Well, I got news for you, you just got punked by Indiana and Milwaukee... That's some message.

[whottt]

:lmao @ Spurs fans defending Salvator's calls.


Salvator is the worst ref in all of pro sports and the worst in NBA history.


I enjoy seeing the Mavs gets fucked as much as the next guy....but not enough to excuse Salvator's incompetence.


Hopefully Cuban will get Salvator fired...and his non-stop whining will have finally accomplished something that benefits the entire NBA.



As for the Mavs fans whining...you're pathetic, don't a one of you ever call a fan of any other team a ref whiner...you have no room to do that if you have Mavs under your team name. Any other fan of any other team can call you a whiner though...and be justified in doing so.

[atxrocker]

As for the Mavs fans whining...you're pathetic, don't a one of you ever call a fan of any other team a ref whiner...you have no room to do that if you have Mavs under your team name. Any other fan of any other team can call you a whiner though...and be justified in doing so.


:tu :tu

[Cry Havoc]

Cuban sure ain't filing protests for every Diop goaltend.

Hey now. SHHH!!! My fantasy team depends on those goaltends!

[CubanMustGo]

:lmao @ Spurs fans defending Salvator's calls.


Salvator is the worst ref in all of pro sports and the worst in NBA history.


I enjoy seeing the Mavs gets fucked as much as the next guy....but not enough to excuse Salvator's incompetence.


Hopefully Cuban will get Salvator fired...and his non-stop whining will have finally accomplished something that benefits the entire NBA.



As for the Mavs fans whining...you're pathetic, don't a one of you ever call a fan of any other team a ref whiner...you have no room to do that if you have Mavs under your team name. Any other fan of any other team can call you a whiner though...and be justified in doing so.

Salvator is a pretty decent German bier.

Salvatore is a pretty shitty NBA ref.

Let's not confuse the two unnecessarily, OK?

[K-State Spur]

The Mavs aren't filing protests every time they lose.

Just 25% of the time.

[whottt]

Salvator is a pretty decent German bier.

Salvatore is a pretty shitty NBA ref.

Let's not confuse the two unnecessarily, OK?


Let's not call others out when jokes go over our heads, ok?


Think about it...

[FromWayDowntown]

Here's what I don't get about this protest: the call under protest is the screw up on Murphy's alleged 3 point shot. The authority saying that the call was erroneous, though, isn't an official -- it's the game's scorer. I have no idea how the official scorer could be vested with authority to advise the game officials about whether their calls were correct or not. Suppose that the situation were somewhat different -- suppose that the shot had been scored a 2, but the official scorer told the game officials that it should have been a 3. Should the official scorer's word count in that circumstance? If not then, I'm not sure why it should count in this circumstance.

As far as I know, when a scoring decision is changed on the floor, it's because one of the officials advises the other officials that the scoring decision announced was incorrect. If you're going to claim that the mistake in this case was correctable, the only way to provide objective proof of that mistake to the game officials -- so that they're not relying on scorers who (I'm fairly sure) have some affiliation with the home team -- is to go to replay. But those pesky rules don't allow for replay review of such plays. Given that truth, Cuban's protest is more one to change the rules, either to allow game officials to rely on the assertions of the official scorer (problematic, I think) or to expand replay. There's nothing in the existing rules of the game to permit the correction that Cuban is lobbying for.

And, as an aside for all the Spurs fans blasting Cuban for lodging this protest, I should remind you of this: NBA Denies Spurs' Protest (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1801637). Ironically, the Spurs are also the authors of one of the few NBA protests to ever be upheld -- in 1982.

[monosylab1k]

this thread had the potential to be a decent Mavs-Spurs smackfest, but da_suns_fan__ had to come in and queer it all up.

[El Jefe]

Here's what I don't get about this protest: the call under protest is the screw up on Murphy's alleged 3 point shot. The authority saying that the call was erroneous, though, isn't an official -- it's the game's scorer. I have no idea how the official scorer could be vested with authority to advise the game officials about whether their calls were correct or not. Suppose that the situation were somewhat different -- suppose that the shot had been scored a 2, but the official scorer told the game officials that it should have been a 3. Should the official scorer's word count in that circumstance? If not then, I'm not sure why it should count in this circumstance.


I'm not sure exactly who screwed up. But looking at the video, neither Palmer nor Salvatore signalled a 3 point shot. I can only see three possibilities.

1)The 3rd ref called a 3 point shot.....from across the floor. I doubt that one.

2)Palmer or Salvatore signalled a 3 pointer, but after the play occured, or after timeout was called by Dallas, and thus did so off camera. Possible, but again I doubt it. Refs raise one arm on the attempt, and then raise the second (think touchdown) on a 3 point make. Neither Palmer nor Salvatore raise a hand, both simply run back the other way.

3)The official scorer simply scored it a 3 without looking for an indication from the ref. Murphy was in rough proximity of the 3 point line, and it was in a delayed transition situation. I can understand someone courtside looking up just in time to see the shot, and not having a clear view of Murphy's feet (which again were well inside the line)

Now why it didn't get corrected later, I have no idea. It's definitely not a case of Salvatore trying to screw the Mavs over with an erroneous 3 pointer, but it may be a case of Salvatore not listening later on when someone says "Hey, I think I made a mistake with the score" Not sure where the break down was, but it should absolutely be investigated.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

this thread had the potential to be a decent Mavs-Spurs smackfest, but da_suns_fan__ had to come in and queer it all up.
:lol

[PoleSmoking]

I don't think this is about sore loserism so much as it is that Bennett Salvatore is a shitty fuckin' ref, and all 30 teams would benefit from him not officiating games anymore. Not that Stern would ever discipline or punish a ref, Crawford-Duncan aside.

I totally agree. Here's my favorite quote from Salvatore (from the recent TruHoops interview series):

"The point of the story here is to tell you that it's not necessarily true that what you see on the court that is happening is actually happening."

That weak excuse pretty much sums up his officiating. According to him, all the famously bad calls that we've seen him make over the years didn't really happen. They only appeared to be bad calls. And you're right about another thing: there's not a single team that Salvatore hasn't screwed with his incompetent calls at some point, and nobody would be sad to see him fired.

[Findog]

I totally agree. Here's my favorite quote from Salvatore (from the recent TruHoops interview series):

"The point of the story here is to tell you that it's not necessarily true that what you see on the court that is happening is actually happening."

That weak excuse pretty much sums up his officiating. According to him, all the famously bad calls that we've seen him make over the years didn't really happen. They only appeared to be bad calls. And you're right about another thing: there's not a single team that Salvatore hasn't screwed with his incompetent calls at some point, and nobody would be sad to see him fired.

Yeah, according to Salvatore, none of those high-profile calls were the wrong ones, the Knicks indeed called a timeout, Nash indeed allowed himself to get tied up on a jumpball, and Dirk hacked the shit out of Wade at the end of G5.

[Findog]

As for the Mavs fans whining...you're pathetic, don't a one of you ever call a fan of any other team a ref whiner...you have no room to do that if you have Mavs under your team name. Any other fan of any other team can call you a whiner though...and be justified in doing so.

This from a guy who claims his team never loses fair and square, it's always horrible officiating. I remember your running commentary in the last Mavs-Spurs tilt, it was the refs and not the Spurs mailing it in that resulted in an L.

It's not about being cheated out of a W, the Mavs did that themselves with their shitty defense. It's about Salvatore. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Like PoleSmoking noted downthread, there's not a team in the League that hasn't been fucked over by his incompetence.

[whottt]

This from a guy who claims his team never loses fair and square, it's always horrible officiating. I remember your running commentary in the last Mavs-Spurs tilt, it was the refs and not the Spurs mailing it in that resulted in an L.

Doesn't matter...you still willingly root for a team that puts any and all whining done by anyone else to shame.


If I whine about every Spurs loss for the next 10 years...I still will not equal the whining output of your teams owner, which you, and every member of the Mavs, wholeheartedly endorse every time you pull for a Mavs win.

You cannot claim to have any right to judge anyone else a whiner, when you root for Mark Cuban's team.





It's not about being cheated out of a W, the Mavs did that themselves with their shitty defense. It's about Salvatore. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Like PoleSmoking noted downthread, there's not a team in the League that hasn't been fucked over by his incompetence.


Salvator is by far the most incomptetent ref.....that doesn't change the fact that the owner of your team is the biggest officiating whiner that has been born on this planet, and as long as he owns your team, and you root for it, you're going to be a pathetic joke of an asswipe anytime you even think about labeling someone else a whiner.


I'm not saying you can't root for the Mavs...I'm not even saying you can't whine about officiating...I'm just saying as long as you do root for the Mavs...you're a fucking joke if you even think about calling anyone else a whiner.


It's like being married to pro whore and telling everyone else they married a slut...just STFU.

[Findog]

Doesn't matter...you still willingly root for a team that puts any and all whining done by anyone else to shame.

I don't think Cuban's anti-ref jihad has been overly constructive, but I don't think it's about sour grapes just when the Mavs are the ones getting screwed. I really do believe it's about improving officiating across the board. Has he gone about it in a positive way for the most part? No. Are things like this going to result in rolled eyes and "here he goes again" commentary when he does raise a legitimate beef? Yes. You noted yourself that you can't defend Salvatore's calls here, so why can't Cuban make an issue of it? Because the past precedes whatever he might have to say here?


If I whine about every Spurs loss for the next 10 years...I still will not equal the whining output of your teams owner, which you, and every member of the Mavs, wholeheartedly endorse every time you pull for a Mavs win.


Specious reasoning. I don't believe bad officiating has cheated us out of anything. And I don't think Cuban believes that either. I don't "wholeheartedly endorse" everything Cuban does just because that's my team. I assume you root for the Spurs the same reason I root for the Mavs, because presumably you've spent a large part of your life in geographic proximity to your team. I don't like some of the things Cuban has done, such as badmouthing Steve Nash's agent on his blog, etc. Those things don't help the franchise.








Salvator is by far the most incomptetent ref.....that doesn't change the fact that the owner of your team is the biggest officiating whiner that has been born on this planet, and as long as he owns your team, and you root for it, you're going to be a pathetic joke of an asswipe anytime you even think about labeling someone else a whiner.

I didn't begin weighing in by calling out other teams fans. I am only responsible for my actions, if Cuban does X, it does not automatically follow that I endorse and applaud X as well. More specious reasoning.



I'm not saying you can't root for the Mavs...I'm not even saying you can't whine about officiating...I'm just saying as long as you do root for the Mavs...you're a fucking joke if you even think about calling anyone else a whiner.

This seems like a bit of a non-sequitur, so uh, okay.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's about Salvatore. It doesn't get much simpler than that. Like PoleSmoking noted downthread, there's not a team in the League that hasn't been fucked over by his incompetence.

That's what I don't get. The protest isn't about the call that Salvatore blew. It's about the fact that none of the officials on the floor caught that Murphy was inside the 3 point line -- a call that apparently was as much Violet Palmer's miss as Bennett Salvatore's.

Do you really think that it's on Salvatore for not blindly accepting the word of the official scorer? Do you really think that game officials should accept such statements as proof of an error? Can you point me to some rule that the officials violated in not taking such a statement as gospel?

[Findog]

That's what I don't get. The protest isn't about the call that Salvatore blew. It's about the fact that none of the officials on the floor caught that Murphy was inside the 3 point line -- a call that apparently was as much Violet Palmer's miss as Bennett Salvatore's.

Do you really think that it's on Salvatore for not blindly accepting the word of the official scorer? Do you really think that game officials should accept such statements as proof of an error? Can you point me to some rule that the officials violated in not taking such a statement as gospel?

Don't they have video they can review to confirm what the official scorer is telling them? How hard would it be to get it right? How cumbersome would it be to do that? The corrected call from the scorer is actually hurting the home team in a close game, how much more free of bias can you get?

[boutons_]

Cuban suffers from the egocentric, conceited mania to think his single "gotcha" protest
will improve the quality of officiating,
as if the refs weren't already aware of unhappiness with reffing, and
as if the refs and director of referring weren't continually monitoring themselves, watching game videos, etc, etc, etc.

[FromWayDowntown]

Don't they have video they can review to confirm what the official scorer is telling them? How hard would it be to get it right? How cumbersome would it be to do that? The corrected call from the scorer is actually hurting the home team in a close game, how much more free of bias can you get?

But, again, point me to the rule that permits game officials to review video of such a call in that circumstance. There isn't such a rule. Replay is permitted only at end-of-quarter shots and, this year, to review flagrant fouls. The rules prohibit the use of replay to correct any other call during the course of a game.

Frankly, if Cuban is concerned with getting officiating right, the first concern should be with officials adhering to the rules of the game instead of insisting that the officials make up new rules on the fly.

[Findog]

But, again, point me to the rule that permits game officials to review video of such a call in that circumstance. There isn't such a rule. Replay is permitted only at end-of-quarter shots and, this year, to review flagrant fouls. The rules prohibit the use of replay to correct any other call during the course of a game.

Frankly, if Cuban is concerned with getting officiating right, the first concern should be with officials adhering to the rules of the game instead of insisting that the officials make up new rules on the fly.

Here is what I don't get. I've been watching NBA games for 20 years, and it's happened countless times, a shooter will initially be awarded a three for a long two, and then then call will be reversed. That didn't happen this time. Why? How does that process normally happen? The referee instructing the scorer, or the scorer notifying the ref his call is incorrect? Salvatore's crew clearly blew the call, the scorers notified them of the error, and nothing was done. Why? Because Salvatore should completely disregard and be suspicious of what the official scorer is telling him, as you suggest? If Tim Donaghy is the lone bad apple, then shouldn't anybody entrusted with such a responsibility to run the official scoring for the game be trusted when he says a scoring error should be reversed? He's not telling Salvatore to reverse a call on the floor regarding fouls, it would seem to me that as offical scorer its well within his expertise to tell the refs a change needs to be made on the score.

[FromWayDowntown]

Just for reference, here's the black-and-white rule concerning replay:

RULE NO. 13—INSTANT REPLAY

Section I—Instant Replay Review Triggers

a. Instant replay would be triggered automatically in the following situations:

(1) A field goal made with no time remaining on the clock (0:00) at the end of the
fourth period or any overtime period that, if scored, would affect or potentially
could affect, the outcome of the game.

(2) A field goal made with no time remaining on the clock (0:00) at the end of the
first, second and third periods.

(3) A foul called with no time remaining on the clock (0:00) at the end of the fourth
period or any overtime period, provided that it could affect the outcome of the
game.

(4) A foul called with no time remaining on the clock (0:00) at the end of the first,
second or third periods.

(5) A flagrant foul/penalty 2 is called at any time during a game.

(6) A Player Altercation occurs. (For purposes of this instant replay rule only, a
Player Altercation shall mean a situation in which (i) two or more players are
engaged in (a) a fight or (b) a hostile physical interaction that is not part of normal
basketball play and that does not immediately resolve by itself or with the intervention of game officials or players, or (ii) one player commits a hostile act against another player that results in the offending player being ejected from the game—for example, when a player intentionally or recklessly harms or attempts to harm another player through the use of a punch, elbow, kick or blow to the head.)

b. Instant replay would NOT be used to check a successful basket in 1 and 2 above if
the throw-in, free throw attempt or jump ball started with .2 or .1 on the game clock. The officials will judge the legality of the basket in these situations based on the guidelines as set forth in Comments on the Rules L.

Section II—Reviewable Matters

a. If an instant replay review is triggered as described in Section I—a (1) and (2) above, the officials would review the video to determine only the following issues:

(1) Whether time on the game clock expired before the ball left the shooter’s hand.

(2) If the shot was timely, whether the successful field goal was scored correctly as a
two-point or three-point field goal.

(3) If the shot was timely, whether the shooter committed a boundary line violation.
For purposes of this review, the official would look only at the position of the
shooter’s feet at the moment they last touched the floor immediately prior to (or,
if applicable, during) the release of the shot.

(4) Whether the 24-second clock expired before the ball left the shooter’s hand.

(5) Whether an 8-second backcourt violation occurred before the ball left the
shooter’s hand.

b. If an instant replay review is triggered as described in Section I—a (3) and (4) above, the officials would review the video to determine only the following issue:

(1) Whether a called foul that is not committed on or by player in the act of shooting
occurred prior to the expiration of time on the game clock.

(2) Whether a called foul that is committed on or by a player in the act of shooting,
where the shooter releases the ball prior to expiration of time on the game clock,
the foul should be administered regardless of whether it occurred prior to or after
the expiration of time.

(3) Whether the shooter fouled was attempting a two or three point field goal.

(4) Whether a player fouled committed a boundary line violation prior to the foul.
For purposes of this review, the official would look only at the position of the
player’s feet at the moment they last touched the floor immediately prior to (or, if
applicable, during) the foul.

(5) Whether the 24-second clock expired before the foul occurred.

(6) Whether an 8-second backcourt violation occurred before the player was fouled.
NOTE: The officials would be permitted to utilize instant replay to determine whether
(and how much) time should be put on the game clock but only when it is determined
through replay that (i) the player committed a boundary line violation, (ii) a 24-second violation occurred, (iii) an 8-second backcourt violation occurred, or (iv) a called foul occurred prior to the expiration of time on the game clock.

c. If an instant replay review is triggered as described in Section I—a (5) above, the
officials would review the video to determine only the following issues:

(1) Whether the flagrant foul/penalty 2 was called correctly or whether it should be
downgraded to a flagrant foul/penalty 1 or a personal foul.

(2) Whether any other players committed unsportsmanlike acts immediately prior to
and/or immediately following the flagrant foul/penalty 2.

d. If an instant replay review is triggered as described in Section I—a (6) above, the
officials would review the video to determine the following issues:

(1) The identity of all players involved in the Player Altercation and the action
immediately prior to and immediately following.

(2) The level of involvement of each such player.

(3) The appropriate penalty to be assessed against each such player.

[Findog]

^ that's all well and good, but how does a correction to the score not get made? The crux of your argument is that Salavatore should pay no heed to what the official scorer is telling him, should completely disregard it.

[FromWayDowntown]

Here is what I don't get. I've been watching NBA games for 20 years, and it's happened countless times, a shooter will initially be awarded a three for a long two, and then then call will be reversed. That didn't happen this time. Why? How does that process normally happen? The referee instructing the scorer, or the scorer notifying the ref his call is incorrect?

In every instance in which I've ever seen that happen, it's one game official who tells the others that the scoring decision on the shot was wrong. If the game officials decide that the scoring decision was, in fact, wrong, they then advise the official scorer, who changes the score as necessary.


Salvatore's crew clearly blew the call, the scorers notified them of the error, and nothing was done. Why?

Because the official scorer is not a game official.


Because Salvatore should completely disregard and be suspicious of what the official scorer is telling him, as you suggest? If Tim Donaghy is the lone bad apple, then shouldn't anybody entrusted with such a responsibility to run the official scoring for the game be trusted when he says a scoring error should be reversed?

If the league wants to institute a rule permitting the officials to look at a replay of a scoring decision brought to the game officials' attention by the official scorer that's one thing; such a rule, however, doesn't exist. As such, if you want Salvatore to take the action you're asking, you're necessarily asking him to either: (1) accept the word of the official scorer -- a bad policy, I think, because it could encourage shenanigans by the official scorers; or (2) indulge in a replay that is not permitted by the rules. In either instance, you're arguing for Salvatore to disregard the rules of the game.


He's not telling Salvatore to reverse a call on the floor regarding fouls, it would seem to me that as offical scorer its well within his expertise to tell the refs a change needs to be made on the score.

The official scorer's job is to record the scoring decisions of the officials with respect to points, fouls, and timeouts. The scorer doesn't make scoring decisions, though; he simply records those scoring decisions made by the officials. You're suggesting that the scorer's power should somehow exceed the express limits on his duties during a game:

Section VII—Duties of Scorers
a. The scorers shall record the field goals made, the free throws made and missed and shall keep a running summary of the points scored. They shall record the personal and technical fouls called on each player and shall notify the officials immediately when a sixth personal foul is called on any player. They shall record the timeouts charged to each team, shall notify a team and its coach through an official whenever that team takes a sixth charged timeout and shall notify the nearest official each time a team is granted a charged timeout in excess of the legal number. In case there is a question about an error in the scoring, the scorer shall check with the crew chief at once to find the discrepancy. If the error cannot be found, the official shall accept the record of the official scorer, unless he has knowledge that
forces him to decide otherwise.

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2007-08.pdf

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

....
Why did you get the faggot out of your name?

[jbspurs]

I'm sorry, but the reason it's called a "shooting foul" is that you have to actually SHOOT THE GODDAMN BALL.

Ref: *TWEET* Foul! Out on the side.
Player: I was shooting the ball.
Ref: Really? Where's the ball now?
Player: Right here in my hands.
Ref: I thought you said you were shooting the ball.
Player: Well, I was GONNA shoot it. I was running toward the basket and stuff. Doesn't that count?
Ref: Did you actually shoot the ball?
Player: Well, not actually. But I was GONNA.
Ref: *sigh* Do I really have to tell you?
Player: I'll take it out on the side.

IMO it was a good call. Even if it wasn't, in a season where they are making a point of cutting way down on contiuation calls it's not remotely surprising that they'd make that call, especially if the player doesn't have the sense to let go of the ball. The sense of entitlement from the Mavericks just staggers me.

And I could have sworn that the three pointer was called by Violet Palmer, NOT Salvatore. I did actually watch the game. The Mavs were seething and never really got past it. They bitched about that call during every timeout. I think it contributed to the hard fouls and AJ's ejection. Cuban really only has himself to blame for that loss; it's not surprising that he'd file a protest.


I agree! He didn't not let go of the ball. Therefore, it's not in the act of shooting. Good call by the ref.!!!

[Findog]

In case there is a question about an error in the scoring, the scorer shall check with the crew chief at once to find the discrepancy. If the error cannot be found, the official shall accept the record of the official scorer, unless he has knowledge that
forces him to decide otherwise.

http://www.nba.com/media/rule_book_2007-08.pdf

So what is the problem here? You're saying that as crew chief, Salvatore has the ultimate authority to decide what the score is, the refs initiate questions about the score and not the other way around, correct?

Problem with that is that the passage I'm quoting seems to describe what actually happened in the game. The scorer had reason to question the score, sent along his well-founded concerns to the crew chief, and nothing was done. That's the only issue Cuban has here. An easily correctable call wasn't made. Maybe the fuckup isn't Salvatore's fault, which is what you seem to be suggesting, but given his track record, the Mavs seem to believe otherwise.

[Obstructed_View]

RTFA:
I don't recall where I've ever suggested that Mark Cuban was honest about his intentions. Showing me his quotes where he says that he's doing it for the good of the league, if nothing else, just reinforces my point, particularly when there's no evidence that he's ever protested calls that didn't go against his team, nor has he ever lobbied for rule changes that aren't designed to give his team an advantage. You aren't going to suggest that the defensive changes he was on TV taking credit for weren't designed to give the Mavericks a better chance of beating the Spurs. Are you?

For the record, Mark Cuban is right to file a protest over that call. Frankly, I'm just as puzzled as you are why that wasn't changed, and it's inexcusable that it wasn't. By all accounts it was bad, and somebody's bound to post video of it before long to confirm that for everyone. Given his track record, and his well-earned reputation as a sore loser and a whiner, I simply question whether Cuban would have done it if his team had won that game, and I absolutely know he wouldn't have cared if it had gone against the other team.

[ATRAIN]

Don't POUT, you big baby. :cry




Its funny how this is coming from a Suns fan.....Its even funnier that this is coming from Da_suns_fan!!!

[MajorMike]

I'm thinking if No-win-ski wouldn't have barfed up the inbounds pass at the end of the game, it wouldn't have mattered. Maybe Cuban can protest Dirk's hands.

[ducks]

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/11/25/mavericks-file-protest-over-loss-to-pacers/

The Mavericks suffered a tough loss at the hands of the Pacers the other night, and they seem intent on making sure that the officials that called the game share in at least some of their misery. It apparently wasn't enough for Avery Johnson to go out in a blaze of glory in protest of a terrible call by Bennett Salvarore; the Mavericks have now gone a step further and decided to file an official protest with the league over the officiating in this game.

[The Mavericks] filed an official protest with NBA officials Saturday about the loss to the Pacers. At issue was a 3-pointer by Troy Murphy that came early in the second quarter. Owner Mark Cuban said the referees were alerted to the fact that Murphy was inside the arc.

"[The] official scorer said he notified the crew, and no action was taken," Cuban said. "We are protesting that a correctible error was not corrected."

Now obviously, this protest goes a bit deeper than an incorrect call made on a three-pointer in the second quarter. The game was not won or lost on this play, and it's not even the play that Avery got himself ejected over. The Mavericks' organization believes that Salvatore has it out for them, dating back to the 2006 Finals. So a series of perceived incorrect calls in the Pacers game where Salvatore was the lead official is what led to the decision to file the protest.


I think this is actually a reasonable move by Cuban, I'll explain after the jump.


We all know that the protest will do absolutely nothing in terms of changing the outcome of the game. The league is not going to replay the game from the point of this incorrect call, and it's not likely that any officials working the game will be reprimanded in any way, at least publicly. Cuban's point here though isn't to have any of that happen. It's to put the fact that there was a correctible call that the officials chose not to correct on the record, so that the league is forced to take a closer look at these types of plays.


Say what you want about Mark Cuban, but since he became the Mavericks' owner, he's been on a crusade to fix the officiating in the NBA and make it more consistent across the board. If this protest helps the league put a policy in place that prevents referees from unilaterally deciding the outcomes of specific plays during the course of a game -- even in situations where there's evidence to the contrary -- then I'm all for it.
if they won cuban would not do this


he does not care if the officials call it right he just wants to win

[Findog]

I don't recall where I've ever suggested that Mark Cuban was honest about his intentions.

If the league actually listened to Cuban and implemented the changes he wanted, it would have the same impact on the Mavericks as 29 other teams. It wouldn't give his team alone some sort of advantage over other teams.


Showing me his quotes where he says that he's doing it for the good of the league, if nothing else, just reinforces my point, particularly when there's no evidence that he's ever protested calls that didn't go against his team, nor has he ever lobbied for rule changes that aren't designed to give his team an advantage.

It just reinforces that you don't trust him and have a low opinion of him. That's fine, you are a fan of another team and you find much of his public behavior obnoxious. Whatever. It's human nature not to be as vocal or loud about blown calls that benefit your team. Mark Cuban isn't alone in that regard. It doesn't mean that he's not sincere about implementing changes that would result in better officiating all around. There's never going to be a perfectly officiated game. Refs are human, you can't completely eliminate human error. That's not the point.


You aren't going to suggest that the defensive changes he was on TV taking credit for weren't designed to give the Mavericks a better chance of beating the Spurs. Are you?

Considering that eliminating handchecking didn't do us much good in the Finals, how did that work out for us? It wasn't "eliminate handchecking when we play the Spurs," it was eliminate handchecking for all 30 teams. I would argue that that was much more of a reaction to those Knicks-Heat late nineties partial-birth abortions than it was about beating a particular team. This is the product he and other owners wanted to put out on the floor. And the Spurs have won two titles since the new rules went into effect. I think it's much more accurate to say that being able to play defense is at a higher premium now, and the Spurs have benefited as much or more than most teams.


Given his track record, and his well-earned reputation as a sore loser and a whiner, I simply question whether Cuban would have done it if his team had won that game, and I absolutely know he wouldn't have cared if it had gone against the other team.

So, in other words, even though I have to reluctantly agree with him on this, I will take potshots at him because of past actions that I didn't like. The net result of this is that if some procedure is put into place to prevent this kind of mishap from happening again, at some point down the road, a Maverick is going to get a long two correctly called instead of being erroneously awarded a three. I defy you to find a quote from anybody, anywhere, calling or begging to have a blown call in their favor reversed. It doesn't mean they wouldn't necessarily be opposed to changes that would improve officiating across the board.

[Findog]

if they won cuban would not do this


he does not care if the officials call it right he just wants to win


I don't agree. If they had pulled out the win, they still would've protested. They wouldn't want this happening again in a playoff game.

[RonMexico]

I don't agree. If they had pulled out the win, they still would've protested. They wouldn't want this happening again in a playoff game.

I don't think I agree with you on this one. We'll wait until the poorly called Suns-Mavs game on both sides where Dirk wins it on a shot over Shawn Marion to see if Cuban submits a complaint.

[Findog]

I don't think I agree with you on this one. We'll wait until the poorly called Suns-Mavs game on both sides where Dirk wins it on a shot over Shawn Marion to see if Cuban submits a complaint.

Oh yes, the "Where 1.3 seconds left happens" game. Did a Maverick get erroneously credited with a three-pointer in that game?

[RonMexico]

Oh yes, the "Where 1.3 seconds left happens" game. Did a Maverick get erroneously credited with a three-pointer in that game?

Yeah, Jason Terry did... and the Suns actually lost that game by a point, instead of 4 points, so it would have actually mattered.

[Findog]

Yeah, Jason Terry did... and the Suns actually lost that game by a point, instead of 4 points, so it would have actually mattered.

I don't remember it that way, but if that were the case, clearing up official scoring confusion would hurt Dallas in this case, so the changes Cuban is seeking don't benefit them unilaterally.

[FromWayDowntown]

So what is the problem here? You're saying that as crew chief, Salvatore has the ultimate authority to decide what the score is, the refs initiate questions about the score and not the other way around, correct?

Problem with that is that the passage I'm quoting seems to describe what actually happened in the game. The scorer had reason to question the score, sent along his well-founded concerns to the crew chief, and nothing was done. That's the only issue Cuban has here. An easily correctable call wasn't made. Maybe the fuckup isn't Salvatore's fault, which is what you seem to be suggesting, but given his track record, the Mavs seem to believe otherwise.

Again, the problem is that you're requiring Salvatore to either: (1) take the word of the official scorer, which contravenes the belief of the three officials; or (2) engage in an impermissible replay to confirm or reject what the official scorer told him. I don't see that either is a proper basis for a protest.

Frankly, I had presumed that your retort would be to cite me to the discrepancy rule and have had some time to think about that provision. I think the discrepancy rule isn't intended to deal with whether a shot was erroneously called as a 3 as opposed to a 2; it's to deal with a situation where a shot that was called as a 3 was credited as a 2 -- that creates a discrepancy. There is no "discrepancy" in the situation that occurred in Indianapolis -- a shot was deemed to be a 3 and was scored as a 3. It's clear to me that the game officials are the final arbiters of scoring decisions, so whatever they say goes. Even if your reading of the rule is superior to mine, the language of the rule itself says that the scorer may alert the crew chief of a suspected error, but that "the official shall accept the record of the official scorer, unless he has knowledge that forces him to decide otherwise." In this particular case, Salvatore might have been alerted to the error, but was required to maintain the record kept by the scorer -- that record would have shown the shot in question to be a 3 -- unless Salvatore had knowledge that the record was wrong. Say what you will, but I maintain that it would be bad policy to permit game officials to accept the recommendations of local scorers and the "knowledge" requirement of the rule contemplates only knowledge possessed by the officiating crew itself and not conveyed to them by third parties.

As such, I still insist that Cuban's protest is one that asks more that rules be changed or disregarded than one based on the failure to adhere to some existing rule.

[RonMexico]

I don't remember it that way, but if that were the case, clearing up official scoring confusion would hurt Dallas in this case, so the changes Cuban is seeking don't benefit them unilaterally.

Yeah - there was no pause and protest or anything like that. It was only seen on the replay that he was over the line when he did his little dribble stutter-step move.

Not like in the '06 playoffs when the ball bounced off the backboard, the shot clock reset, and Javie later apologized to the Suns for messing up the call.

Oh, well - Raja Bell got a 3 against the Spurs with his foot on the line last year, so it all evens out. What Cuban should really do is gather all improperly awarded 3 pointers over the past 3 years and make a "Where (blank) happens" commercial. He has the money to do it.

[Findog]

Again, the problem is that you're requiring Salvatore to either: (1) take the word of the official scorer, which contravenes the belief of the three officials; or (2) engage in an impermissible replay to confirm or reject what the official scorer told him. I don't see that either is a proper basis for a protest.

I think all Cuban is asking for is how did such an obvious fuckup get made? It's pretty routine for these kinds of scoring errors to be corrected. It didn't happen in this case. I still don't understand why Salvatore can and should completely disregard the official scorer disputing the score, even though as crew chief it is ultimately his call to determine what the score is. As best as I can understand it, your argument is that Salvatore can't completely trust the OS to be operating in good faith, so he should pay it no heed. It seems pretty obvious and self-evident to me that the OS was seeking a change for a pretty valid reason and Salvatore couldn't be bothered. I think that's bad policy to assume the OS is operating out of some sort of bias or they can't be trusted.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think all Cuban is asking for is how did such an obvious fuckup get made? It's pretty routine for these kinds of scoring errors to be corrected. It didn't happen in this case. I still don't understand why Salvatore can and should completely disregard the official scorer disputing the score, even though as crew chief it is ultimately his call to determine what the score is. As best as I can understand it, your argument is that Salvatore can't completely trust the OS to be operating in good faith, so he should pay it no heed. It seems pretty obvious and self-evident to me that the OS was seeking a change for a pretty valid reason and Salvatore couldn't be bothered. I think that's bad policy to assume the OS is operating out of some sort of bias or they can't be trusted.

No -- I think the official scorer shouldn't be butting in on questions concerning on-court rulings. It would be inappropriate for the official scorer to tell the officials that something that was called a foul wasn't actually a foul, or was a foul that should have been called on a different player than the one who was credited with the foul. If the officials on the floor catch their mistake and correct it, that's one thing -- and I suspect that's the correction that you claim to see so frequently; one guy is telling the others that a shot was a 3 instead of a 2 and vice-versa. I can see that the official scorer might ask whether a shot was ruled a 2 or a 3 by the game officials, but I don't see that there's any place for the official scorer to advise the game officials, in definitive terms, that there was a mistake made -- and I think that the reason there's no place for that is that permitting such interference by the official scorer could (and I emphasize the word could; not did, not always will -- could) invite shenanigans. There's a specific reason that so much control of the game is vested in the game officials.

[whottt]

Just shut up Findog...

Here's an example of Mark Cuban's unbiased
respect for the rules:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyLn5M8c2Gw

[Findog]

Just shut up Findog...


Eat a dick. He stopped defending Terry when the reverse angle clearly showed the nutpunch. The most common angle didn't show anything.

Block me if I annoy you.

[whottt]

Eat a dick. He stopped defending Terry when the reverse angle clearly showed the nutpunch. The most common angle didn't show anything.

Block me if I annoy you.



That's funny...because in that link I posted, it's pretty obvious Cuban knows Terry punched Finley in the nuts with a closed fist, and he's still protesting the ruling. I say it's obvious because...he says Terry punched him with a closed fist, as he's protesting the ruling.


You so stupid you try and lie even when the evidence that proves you are lying is one post ahead of you.


So stick that specious reasoning up your ass...

[Findog]

That's funny...because in that link I posted, it's pretty obvious Cuban knows Terry punched Finley in the nuts with a closed fist, and he's still protesting the ruling. I say it's obvious because...he says Terry punched him with a closed fist, as he's protesting the ruling.


You so stupid you try and lie even when the evidence that proves you are lying is one post ahead of you.


So stick that specious reasoning up your ass...

Terry initially told team officials that he didn't punch Finley. The video proved him wrong. Once that was established, they stopped making such a stink about him having to sit out G6.

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/05/16/rules-in-the-nba/


When Jason Terry was suspended for throwing a punch last year, our only argument was whether or not he actually threw a punch. If he did, all involved, including Jason knew and understood what the punishment would be and why.


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[whottt]

Watch the video if you don't want to be considered an idiot...


It's right there...Cuban saying Terry punched Finley with a closed fist...Cuban saying he shouldn't have been suspended for it...you idiot.

Watch the video...then shut up.


There's absolutely no defense you can make without just straight up lying.

[Findog]

Watch the video if you don't want to be considered an idiot...


It's right there...Cuban saying Terry punched Finley with a closed fist...Cuban saying he shouldn't have been suspended for it...you idiot.

Watch the video...then shut up.


There's absolutely no defense you can make without just straight up lying.

I've seen the damn video before, I saw that interview footage when it happened in May of 2006. He quickly backtracked from that stance once it became obvious how bad it was. If you want to hold him to his first reaction right after the decision was announced, then so be it. He can be an obnoxious ass at times, and emotions run high in a hotly-contested playoff series. He cursed out Bowen on the floor after G6 and then apologized for it. He quickly came off his defend JET at all costs stance too. Your choice if you want that interview to be his Final Answer on the topic.

[whottt]

Un...the severity of the punch has nothing to do with it you douche...

Read the NBA rulebook sometime...you'll be less stupid.


Closed Fist = Suspension. Period. Per the rule book. Now either Cuban didn't know the rule, which makes him an even bigger ass since he is so critical of the officiating...or else he was saying the rule shouldn't be enforced against his team you idiot. But obviously, he did know the rule, since it was stated at the time the suspension was given out.


There's no two ways about it...

Closed Fist = Suspension. Period.
In that video, he obviously knew Terry used a closed fist, and he obviously thought he shouldn't have been suspended for it. IE, he didn't think a clearly stated rulle should be enforced against his team...which makes your entire, concerned about the integrity of the officiating argument on his behalf...fucking stupid.

Baby steps my friend...first you must reliaze you're stupid, before the healing can begin...say it to yourself, "I am stupid, and I want to get better".

[whottt]

You have the lost this argument, you have lost it badly...continue trying to win it, futiley, at the expense of your own credibility...what little you have...

[Findog]

Un...the severity of the punch has nothing to do with it you douche...

You know who would agree with you, cuntstain? Mark Cuban.




Read the NBA rulebook sometime...you'll be less stupid.

People say and do stupid things in the heat of a playoff series, such as cursing out an opposing player, or trying to wish away a valid suspension. That interview is proof positive. He was upset about a key player being suspended. He didn't stand behind those remarks and retracted them.


When Jason Terry was suspended for throwing a punch last year, our only argument was whether or not he actually threw a punch. If he did, all involved, including Jason knew and understood what the punishment would be and why.

What more do you want? Nobody is ever allowed to say "On second thought, I was wrong. I'd like to retract those remarks." I would think you of all people would especially want this protection. I'd hate for you to have to live by that same standard, we might be spared some Brent Barry = GOAT arguments.


Closed Fist = Suspension. Period. Per the rule book. Now either Cuban didn't know the rule, which makes him an even bigger ass since he is so critical of the officiating...or else he was saying the rule shouldn't be enforced against his team you idiot.

Or Option Three, he said something stupid in the heat of a playoff series and a Spurs-Mavs faceoff. Good thing whottt doesn't hold himself to the same standard, since as we all know, the Mavs can't beat the Spurs without shady officiating and Brent Barry is the GOAT.



There's no two ways about it...

Maybe in whottt land.



Closed Fist = Suspension. Period.

Duh. You know who agrees with you? Mark Cuban. Keep debating with yourself, it's quite amusing.


which makes your entire, concerned about the integrity of the officiating argument on his behalf...fucking stupid.

It would make his concerns about the integrity of officiating hypocritical if he stood behind that interview. He didn't.


Baby steps my friend...first you must reliaze you're stupid, before the healing can begin...say it to yourself, "I am stupid, and I want to get better

Psychological Projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes to others one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses/desires without letting the ego recognize them.

[Findog]

You have the lost this argument, you have lost it badly...continue trying to win it, futiley, at the expense of your own credibility...what little you have...

Wait, is this whott lecturing others about credibility? The guy who thinks the Spurs are always playing 5 on 8 when the opponent is Dallas, the guy who writes 1,300 word essays about the greatness of Brent Barry, and the guy who thinks the war in Iraq is a good idea? That whottt?

[Obstructed_View]

If the league actually listened to Cuban and implemented the changes he wanted, it would have the same impact on the Mavericks as 29 other teams. It wouldn't give his team alone some sort of advantage over other teams.
It only becomes important to him after his team loses. He was at the forefront of the handchecking rule changes because the Mavericks were an offense oriented team that couldn't get past the Spurs' defense.


It just reinforces that you don't trust him and have a low opinion of him. That's fine, you are a fan of another team and you find much of his public behavior obnoxious. Whatever. It's human nature not to be as vocal or loud about blown calls that benefit your team. Mark Cuban isn't alone in that regard. It doesn't mean that he's not sincere about implementing changes that would result in better officiating all around. There's never going to be a perfectly officiated game. Refs are human, you can't completely eliminate human error. That's not the point.
You know damn well I've been a fan of the Mavericks for a long time before he showed up. My low opinion of him has taken years to develop, and it's due to the predictability of his personality, not some flaw in mine. Mark Cuban isn't alone in being a homer for his team, but I'm damn sure going to call him a liar when he tries to make it look like he gives a shit about anything that happens to anyone other than the Mavericks. As mentioned before, the evidence is hugely in my favor.


Considering that eliminating handchecking didn't do us much good in the Finals, how did that work out for us? It wasn't "eliminate handchecking when we play the Spurs," it was eliminate handchecking for all 30 teams. I would argue that that was much more of a reaction to those Knicks-Heat late nineties partial-birth abortions than it was about beating a particular team. This is the product he and other owners wanted to put out on the floor. And the Spurs have won two titles since the new rules went into effect. I think it's much more accurate to say that being able to play defense is at a higher premium now, and the Spurs have benefited as much or more than most teams.
Mark Cuban was very proud of those rule changes when he thought it got the Mavericks past the Spurs. That it bit him in the ass a few weeks after he crowed about it doesn't change the fact that he had the Spurs in mind when he supported the change. That he didn't understand that the Spurs don't defend with their hands is understandable, as he doesn't know very much about basketball. Again, Cuban's petulant attitude and back-handed public comments about David Stern and the NBA show that he's not really as concerned about the good of the game as you'd like people to believe.



So, in other words, even though I have to reluctantly agree with him on this, I will take potshots at him because of past actions that I didn't like. The net result of this is that if some procedure is put into place to prevent this kind of mishap from happening again, at some point down the road, a Maverick is going to get a long two correctly called instead of being erroneously awarded a three. I defy you to find a quote from anybody, anywhere, calling or begging to have a blown call in their favor reversed. It doesn't mean they wouldn't necessarily be opposed to changes that would improve officiating across the board.
Not even close. The fact that he happens to be correct this one time doesn't change that he's done this multiple times before, and only when they go against his team. Despite the fact that he sat there yelling at the officials during every timeout, he always has his "good of the league" and "improve the process" schpiel ready to throw out to the press. Mark Cuban's track record speaks very clearly for him. It's not my fault you choose not to see it.

[Findog]

It only becomes important to him after his team loses. He was at the forefront of the handchecking rule changes because the Mavericks were an offense oriented team that couldn't get past the Spurs' defense.

And Mark Cuban alone got those changes through? He didn't have the support of other owners on the rules and competition committee? He got those other owners to support him because his anti-Spurs agenda wasn't very transparent?


You know damn well I've been a fan of the Mavericks for a long time before he showed up. My low opinion of him has taken years to develop, and it's due to the predictability of his personality, not some flaw in mine.

I don't defend or admire everything about the man, and you know damn well I don't reflexively "suck his dick" over everything he does. Cursing out Bruce Bowen is wrong. Hazing the refs during a game has surely backfired on him and his team.


Mark Cuban isn't alone in being a homer for his team, but I'm damn sure going to call him a liar when he tries to make it look like he gives a shit about anything that happens to anyone other than the Mavericks. As mentioned before, the evidence is hugely in my favor.

I think he wants to make money, and he can't do that if fans have little confidence in officiating overall, or if the NBA isn't as viable or as healthy as it could be.

[PoleSmoking]

Why did you get the faggot out of your name?

I didn't. The wonderful censors at Spurstalk apparently deemed it inappropriate/offensive and went right ahead & removed it for me. I didn't have to lift a single finger.

With that said, I would like to take this opportunity to publicly say thank you Spurstalk moderators, for protecting us all from the evils of homosexuality and hate-speech. LOL.

It always amazes me how cowed and frightened and gutless people really are when you get down to the nub. It's just a word, just a sound ... but, oh no! We can't have THAT word on Spurstalk. Pretty funny.

[monosylab1k]

I didn't. The wonderful censors at Spurstalk apparently deemed it inappropriate/offensive and went right ahead & removed it for me. I didn't have to lift a single finger.

With that said, I would like to take this opportunity to publicly say thank you Spurstalk moderators, for protecting us all from the evils of homosexuality and hate-speech. LOL.

It always amazes me how cowed and frightened and gutless people really are when you get down to the nub. It's just a word, just a sound ... but, oh no! We can't have THAT word on Spurstalk. Pretty funny.
I get where you're coming from, but they also let us get away with so much crap that wouldn't fly on most other sports forums.

[Reggie Miller]

In the final analysis, you're going to look like a sore loser when you protest a November loss to the 2007-08 Pacers. It's a fact, Jack. We're not good even when J.O. has been in the games, and he may be out for a while.

They did beat Portland last night, so we will get at least 20 wins this season.

[spurscenter]

Terry initially told team officials that he didn't punch Finley. The video proved him wrong. Once that was established, they stopped making such a stink about him having to sit out G6.

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2007/05/16/rules-in-the-nba/




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LOL

word

:lol