More Power Rankings Debacles: Celts at #4! [Archive]

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 12:12 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2008&week=4

These rankings are officially a joke (oh, I know, that's the sound of everyone stating how slow I am to catch on).

Really though, I have less issue with the Spurs at #2 than with the team that's played the best ball in the NBA to this point moves up ONE spot from 5th.

And NO. I don't really care from a basketball standpoint. But doesn't it irk you that this guy gets paid MONEY to write crap like this?

Discuss. I would really enjoy it if you guys got into a pissing match again. :toast

Findog

11-26-2007, 12:16 PM

1. San Antonio
2. Boston
3. Phoenix
4. Dallas

5-30: Everybody Else.

Discuss.

u2sarajevo

11-26-2007, 12:24 PM

If Dallas has played well enough to be ranked 4th then I feel sorry for the rest of the league...

Findog

11-26-2007, 12:41 PM

If Dallas has played well enough to be ranked 4th then I feel sorry for the rest of the league...

Utah is 10-4, that's a half-game better. Other than that, name a team other than the previous four that is better than the Mavs right now. We're on a pace to win 55 games, that's quite shitty.

Our defense is worse than Phoenix right now, it looks like a Nellie-coached team. And the Suns can get away with it against most teams because of how efficient they are on offense. We have six months to fix it.

Findog

11-26-2007, 12:51 PM

And Orlando I guess. I'd put them ahead of Dallas right now too.

boutons_

11-26-2007, 12:54 PM

Celts play in the EC, maybe that accounts for it, not that the Spurs have had tough schedule, going 1-2 against good teams.

u2sarajevo

11-26-2007, 01:15 PM

Utah is 10-4, that's a half-game better. Other than that, name a team other than the previous four that is better than the Mavs right now. We're on a pace to win 55 games, that's quite shitty.

Our defense is worse than Phoenix right now, it looks like a Nellie-coached team. And the Suns can get away with it against most teams because of how efficient they are on offense. We have six months to fix it.I wasn't talking about our W-L record. I was talking our production on the court. I know there is plenty of time to fix it, I've been preaching that as well.

I guess in a Power Ranking of potential I would rank us even higher than you did, if that's what we are talking about...

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 01:21 PM

How do you guys see Orlando and Boston finishing? Personally I don't see a team in the EC capable of contending with the Celtics. Allen, Garnett, and Pierce are so good that they're covering a lot of their younger teammates weaknesses, and I'm not sure there's a team out East that can exploit that.

Findog

11-26-2007, 01:26 PM

I wasn't talking about our W-L record. I was talking our production on the court. I know there is plenty of time to fix it, I've been preaching that as well.

I was as well. For instance, I wouldn't put NOLA in the top-five bc I don't think they're a top-five team...yet.

I guess in a Power Ranking of potential I would rank us even higher than you did, if that's what we are talking about

Power Ranking of Potential? I dunno...for the Spurs, their best-case scenario is a title, worst-case scenario is losing to us. For us, best-case scenario is somehow avoiding Phoenix in the first two rounds, get every break against the Spurs, and hopefully things will be different against Boston than they were against Miami. For Phoenix? Hope Dallas does their San Antonio dirty work for them, and then they become the faves to win it all. If not, another early exit at the hands of the Spurs. For Boston? They go to the Finals and anything can happen once they've made it. Worst-case scenario, they get upset by Detroit or Orlando.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 01:28 PM

TDMVPDPOY

11-26-2007, 01:33 PM

well boston did struggle to win games where they meant to win bobcats and some lame team they won on the buzzer

JMarkJohns

11-26-2007, 01:37 PM

Celts play in the EC, maybe that accounts for it, not that the Spurs have had tough schedule, going 1-2 against good teams.

Playing in the East may have something to do with it, and for once, I think the logic is pretty well spelled out.

1. Phoenix because of tied-for-1st place record and an 8-game win streak, including a win over #3 Orlando.
2. San Antonio because they are tied for first and have a win over #3 Orlando.
3. Orlando because while they have three losses, two have come against the top two teams in the rankings and the other to a very strong opponant. They are above Boston because they BEAT Boston.
4. Boston because they lost to their toughest competition thus far (Orlando), but have been very impressive overall.

I don't see what's so fucked up about these rankings? They have never been a "big picture" poll. They go from week to week, guaging the most recent with the overall, but placing more stock in recent play than in past play.

I mean, they are stupid, but this weeks has actually been one of the best explained rankings I've seen.

Extra Stout

11-26-2007, 01:38 PM

I think these Power Rankings debacles are going to be the league's undoing. What good is it for the Celtics to start 11-1 if they don't get their Power Ranking props? The NBA should institute a system where playoff seeding is based upon won-lost records rather than journalist's opinions.

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 01:40 PM

Youre one to talk.

I'd rather discuss how youre such a homeristic tool you ranked Tony Parker and others ahead of Steve Nash in a different thread.

Do you even watch basketball?

I prefer players who know how to do more than watch for 50% of the game.

And you're just bitter because you got completely dismantled here:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79649&page=3

So how many championships has Nash won with that run'n'gun no defense style of play? He's got two all-stars and the 6th man of the year on his team and he still can't get it done. Nash will never win a title. Parker has 3 and he JUST qualified for lower car insurance from Geico (turning 25).

Damnit. Fell for a troll. Oh well.

JMarkJohns

11-26-2007, 01:40 PM

Findog

11-26-2007, 01:41 PM

I agree with JMark, it all depends on perspective. Big Picture P Rankings, I'd probably put Dallas ahead of Orlando. But RIGHT NOW the Magic are playing better. If you approach from a macro big picture perspective, it's easy to get your panties in a wad if you think your team is ranked too low.

The Spurs are the best playoff team and that's all that matters. I'd probably put the Celts at #2 because they will have such an easier path to the Finals than Dallas, Phoenix or Utah, which will most likely have to slay San Antonio themselves, as opposed to hoping one of the others does it.

Extra Stout

11-26-2007, 01:42 PM

As a Suns fan, I think playoff seedings should be based upon team-by-team ratings rankings... :dramaquee
Rather than judging who wins games by who scores the most points, the NBA should institute a celebrity panel of judges to decide who put out the best performance.

Findog

11-26-2007, 01:44 PM

Rather than judging who wins games by who scores the most points, the NBA should institute a celebrity panel of judges to decide who put out the best performance.

They should get the American Idol judges. Hey Amare, Randy Jackson is feelin' ya, dawg.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 01:46 PM

I prefer players who know how to do more than watch for 50% of the game.

And you're just bitter because you got completely dismantled here:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79649&page=3

So how many championships has Nash won with that run'n'gun no defense style of play? He's got two all-stars and the 6th man of the year on his team and he still can't get it done. Nash will never win a title. Parker has 3 and he JUST qualified for lower car insurance from Geico (turning 25).

Damnit. Fell for a troll. Oh well.

I see, well by that logic Francisco Elson is a better big man that KG since he has more titles.

btw - I responded in that other thread.

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 01:46 PM

After Tony Parker of all people won the Finals MVP, I don't even know how I'm still watching the NBA right now.

And with Varejao holdiing out and the Celtics dominant, I'll probably never get to see him try a turnaround hook shot in the closing seconds of Game 3 of the NBA Finals again, which was the single funniest play of the season last year.

NBA Finals: where Eastern Conference mediocrity happens.

JMarkJohns

11-26-2007, 01:47 PM

Rather than judging who wins games by who scores the most points, the NBA should institute a celebrity panel of judges to decide who put out the best performance.

I'm a Suns fan, and I approve this message :spin

bdictjames

11-26-2007, 01:58 PM

1. Boston
2. San Antonio
3. Phoenix
4. Orlando
5. Dallas

I think this should be it.

The_Game

11-26-2007, 01:59 PM

well boston did struggle to win games where they meant to win bobcats and some lame team they won on the buzzer

what the hell you on about? Boston have won most of their games by 20+. I also don't see why how many you win by matters. It's the wins that matter.

u2sarajevo

11-26-2007, 02:01 PM

One way to screw the Texas teams is have the playoffs be scrapped and just go to a Finals with the teams from each conference with the highest TV ratings.

monosylab1k

11-26-2007, 02:03 PM

Do you even watch basketball?
Don't you have high schoolers to get owned by in lieu of talking basketball?

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 02:05 PM

TDMVPDPOY is still number 1 in the moron poster power rankings, which is refreshing.

The rest of the top 5:

2. CaptMike
3. mavsfan1000
4. Purple & Gold
5. Doug Collins

6 - 1000. CaptMike

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:07 PM

TDMVPDPOY is still number 1 in the moron poster power rankings, which is refreshing.

The rest of the top 5:

2. CaptMike
3. mavsfan1000
4. Purple & Gold
5. Doug Collins

6 - 1000. CaptMike

These would be much more entertaining than trying to definitively rank 30 NBA teams so early in the season. Douchebag poster rankings would be great as well.

monosylab1k

11-26-2007, 02:13 PM

Douchebag poster rankings would be great as well.

da_suns_fan__ would be the runaway #1 until SpursDynasty's return.

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 02:14 PM

ehz33satx

11-26-2007, 02:20 PM

I'd rather discuss how youre such a homeristic tool you ranked Tony Parker and others ahead of Steve Nash in a different thread.

If Steve Nash finished his career and retired without ever winning a championship AND Tony Parker finished his career but retires an 8X NBA Champion, would you still think Steve Nash is better? Parker has 3 NBA rings and 1 Finals MVP. How does that not make him better than Nash already? And Parker still at such a young age and plenty of years ahead while Steve Nash's career is in it's twilight.

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 02:22 PM

I need to re-do my rankings.

Based on his stupidity in the College Sports forum, Brutalis has now been ranked #6.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:24 PM

If Steve Nash finished his career and retired without ever winning a championship AND Tony Parker finished his career but retires an 8X NBA Champion, would you still think Steve Nash is better? Parker has 3 NBA rings and 1 Finals MVP. How does that not make him better than Nash already? And Parker still at such a young age and plenty of years ahead while Steve Nash's career is in it's twilight.

Parker always wins the head-to-head matchup against Nash, he's a better defender than Nash, but I'm not so sure he could duplicate Nash's success running that offense in Phoenix. He's not the distributor that Nash is, he's not as good as Nash at creating for others. I've always had a hard time evaluating Parker because he plays with Duncan. He's certainly a very good player, probably an All-Star, but how much easier is the game for him when Tim Duncan is anchoring the frontline behind him?

The only way to really compare them is to have them switch places. Where would Phoenix be with Tony Parker? Where would the Spurs be with Steve Nash?

Extra Stout

11-26-2007, 02:27 PM

I need to re-do my rankings.

Based on his stupidity in the College Sports forum, Brutalis has now been ranked #6.
:dramaquee

Even Aggieland can't rehabilitate a Suns fan.

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 02:27 PM

Yeah, Parker can be a more aggressive defender because Duncan is behind him.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 02:27 PM

If Steve Nash finished his career and retired without ever winning a championship AND Tony Parker finished his career but retires an 8X NBA Champion, would you still think Steve Nash is better? Parker has 3 NBA rings and 1 Finals MVP. How does that not make him better than Nash already? And Parker still at such a young age and plenty of years ahead while Steve Nash's career is in it's twilight.

I guess that depends on what your criteria for measuring success. If its simply number of rings, then Parker has the edge.

However, you could argue that Beno Udrih has had a better career than Nash then.

In every other imaginable way of measuring a players success, Nash has a huge edge.

Has Francisco Elson had a better career than Kevin Garnett?

He has more rings.

Did Horace Grant have a better career than Karl Malone?

He has more rings.

I can't even believe Im taking the time to argue this.

Tony Parker?

Come on.

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 02:29 PM

:dramaquee

Even Aggieland can't rehabilitate a Suns fan.

I don't know what this means.

The Spurs are actually good and have won something recently.

All Arkansas has produced is a crazed fan posting a video of him shooting his Auburn tickets with a shotgun on YouTube.

ehz33satx

11-26-2007, 02:29 PM

Has Steve Nash been named Finals MVP? Ever? Maybe never.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 02:30 PM

Parker always wins the head-to-head matchup against Nash, he's a better defender than Nash, but I'm not so sure he could duplicate Nash's success running that offense in Phoenix. He's not the distributor that Nash is, he's not as good as Nash at creating for others. I've always had a hard time evaluating Parker because he plays with Duncan. He's certainly a very good player, probably an All-Star, but how much easier is the game for him when Tim Duncan is anchoring the frontline behind him?

The only way to really compare them is to have them switch places. Where would Phoenix be with Tony Parker? Where would the Spurs be with Steve Nash?

Parker ALWAYS wins the head to head matchup with Nash?

Not even looking, Im guessing Nash had a better game than Parker four out of six times in last years playoffs (I do this knowing that Parker had three crappy games in the series and Nash didn't have any).

Surely Parker can't ALWAYS win the head to head matchup. In fact, Im pretty sure he usually loses that matchup.

FinDog, what the hell are you talking about?

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:31 PM

Yeah, Parker can be a more aggressive defender because Duncan is behind him.

Exactly. Nash's defense would improve if Duncan was his center.

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 02:32 PM

He's certainly a very good player, probably an All-Star, but how much easier is the game for him when Tim Duncan is anchoring the frontline behind him?

The only way to really compare them is to have them switch places. Where would Phoenix be with Tony Parker? Where would the Spurs be with Steve Nash?

But if you think about it objectively, what WOULD the Suns be with Parker? Absolute lightning on the court. They would have the fastest team the NBA has seen, maybe ever. Sure, Parker isn't the assist guy that Nash is, but with Parker, Barbs, Marion, Hill, and Amare on the court, I seriously doubt they'd lose a lot on offense. That's not to discount how good Nash is, it's just that the Suns offense is pretty scary when it's on.

ehz33satx

11-26-2007, 02:33 PM

Steve Nash played with a dominating big man in Dallas, another regular season MVP no less! Did they ever win a championship? Ever? Ever?
Never.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:33 PM

Parker ALWAYS wins the head to head matchup with Nash?

He certainly did when Nash wore blue and white, when they did guard each other. I know the Suns hide Nash on Bowen and Marion guards Parker, so they don't guard each other usually. That's part of how Nash doesn't measure up well to Parker in that the Suns have to pull their best defender out of the frontcourt to take Nash's man for him. Against most teams, the Suns have a huge advantage at PG. Against San Antonio, it's pretty close to a draw.

Not that anybody guards Duncan well, but I bet Marion could do a better job than Amare or Brian Skinner.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:34 PM

Steve Nash played with a dominating big man in Dallas, another regular season MVP no less! Did they ever win a championship? Ever? Ever?
Never.

Dirk isn't a low-post b2basket scorer.

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 02:36 PM

Exactly. Nash's defense would improve if Duncan was his center.

Conjecture. You cannot conclusively say that Nash would be a good defender with Duncan. The Spurs defense is predicated on extremely fast rotations and allowing no open shots. No breakdowns. Nash would blow a hole in that idea the size of Kansas.

Of course, with Duncan and Bowen teaching him footwork, he just might improve a bit! :drunk

ehz33satx

11-26-2007, 02:36 PM

Steve Nash! 2X MVP of regular season! OOOHHHHHH!!! Makes me all tingly inside!

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:37 PM

Conjecture. You cannot conclusively say that Nash would be a good defender with Duncan. The Spurs defense is predicated on extremely fast rotations and allowing no open shots. No breakdowns. Nash would blow a hole in that idea the size of Kansas.

Of course, with Duncan and Bowen teaching him footwork, he just might improve a bit! :drunk

I'm pretty sure I said his defense would improve, which it most certainly would. I didn't say anything about him suddenly making All-Defense Teams.

Extra Stout

11-26-2007, 02:39 PM

Parker ALWAYS wins the head to head matchup with Nash?

Not even looking, Im guessing Nash had a better game than Parker four out of six times in last years playoffs (I do this knowing that Parker had three crappy games in the series and Nash didn't have any).

Surely Parker can't ALWAYS win the head to head matchup. In fact, Im pretty sure he usually loses that matchup.

FinDog, what the hell are you talking about?
I don't know if Parker actually wins head-to-head with Nash, but Nash and the Suns do very little to impede Parker from doing whatever he wants to do on the floor.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 02:47 PM

Game 1:

Parker: 32 points and 8 assists. 6 turnovers. 63% shooting
Nash: 31 points and 8 assists. 0 turnovers. 61 % shooting

Edge: Could go either way. They both had nearly identical shooting nights but Parker had six turnovers. Gotta say Nash was the better player.

Game two:

Parker: 14 points. 3 assists. Four turnovers. 35% shooting.
Nash: 20 points. 16 assists. Three turnovers. 41% shooting.

Edge: Easily Nash (so I guess Parker doesn't ALWAYS win their head to head matchup, right FinDog).

Game 3:

Parker: 16 points, 5 assists, two turnovers, 38 % shooting
Nash: 16 points, 11 assists, five turnovers, 35% shooting.

Edge: Parker

Game 4:

Parker: 24 points, 7 assists, 5 turnovers, 47 % shooting
Nash: 24 points, 15 assists, 8 turnovers, 66% shooting

Edge: Nash

Game 5:

Parker: 11 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers, 38 % shooting
Nash: 19 points, 12 assists, 3 turnovers, 31% shooting

Edge: Nash

Game 6:

Parker: 30 points, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 40% shooting
Nash: 18 points, 14 assists, 5 turnovers, 70% shooting

Edge: Could go either way. Parker had a great scoring night but thats only because he shot a lot. I'll give him the slight nod here since I gave Nash the nod for game one.

Final tally:

Nash - 4
Parker - 2

Edit: I see that FinDog has revised his statement to say that Nash was outplayed by Parker when Nash played for Dallas.

Also, its true that these two don't even guard each other. This gets back to the Nash is bad defender hypocrisy.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:48 PM

But if you think about it objectively, what WOULD the Suns be with Parker? Absolute lightning on the court. They would have the fastest team the NBA has seen, maybe ever. Sure, Parker isn't the assist guy that Nash is, but with Parker, Barbs, Marion, Hill, and Amare on the court, I seriously doubt they'd lose a lot on offense. That's not to discount how good Nash is, it's just that the Suns offense is pretty scary when it's on.

Marion and Amare are not that great at creating for themselves. Amare has looked fuckin' scary at times with Nash. Without him, I don't fear him anymore than I would Al Jefferson. Marion scores most of his points off putbacks and tip-ins instead of running set plays. I've only watched one Spurs game so far this year, but historically Parker has not been nearly the outside shooter that Nash is, and spreading the floor is extremely important in that offense. Nash is shooting 55% from the floor this year.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:50 PM

Game 1:

Parker: 32 points and 8 assists. 6 turnovers. 63% shooting
Nash: 31 points and 8 assists. 0 turnovers. 61 % shooting

Edge: Could go either way. They both had nearly identical shooting nights but Parker had six turnovers. Gotta say Nash was the better player.

Game two:

Parker: 14 points. 3 assists. Four turnovers. 35% shooting.
Nash: 20 points. 16 assists. Three turnovers. 41% shooting.

Edge: Easily Nash (so I guess Parker doesn't ALWAYS win their head to head matchup, right FinDog).

Game 3:

Parker: 16 points, 5 assists, two turnovers, 38 % shooting
Nash: 16 points, 11 assists, five turnovers, 35% shooting.

Edge: Parker

Game 4:

Parker: 24 points, 7 assists, 5 turnovers, 47 % shooting
Nash: 24 points, 15 assists, 8 turnovers, 66% shooting

Edge: Nash

Game 5:

Parker: 11 points, 5 assists, 3 turnovers, 38 % shooting
Nash: 19 points, 12 assists, 3 turnovers, 31% shooting

Edge: Nash

Game 6:

Parker: 30 points, 6 assists, 1 turnover, 40% shooting
Nash: 18 points, 14 assists, 5 turnovers, 70% shooting

Edge: Could go either way. Parker had a great scoring night but thats only because he shot a lot. I'll give him the slight nod here since I gave Nash the nod for game one.

Final tally:

Nash - 4
Parker - 2

If we only care about offense, I suppose Nash usually outscores Parker. Do the Spurs pull their best frontcourt defender off of Amare so he can guard Nash? That's pretty weak shit. If you want a pure demonstration of what happens when they guard each other, Parker outplayed him consistently when Nash was a Maverick. That was one of the reasons Dallas didn't break the bank to resign him, because they knew they would have to get past San Antonio somehow and it wasn't going to happen with Steve Nash guarding Tony Parker.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 02:52 PM

If we only care about offense, I suppose Nash usually outscores Parker. Do the Spurs pull their best frontcourt defender off of Amare so he can guard Nash? That's pretty weak shit. If you want a pure demonstration of what happens when they guard each other, Parker outplayed him consistently when Nash was a Maverick. That was one of the reasons Dallas didn't break the bank to resign him, because they knew they would have to get past San Antonio somehow and it wasn't going to happen with Steve Nash guarding Tony Parker.

I edited my last post.

CubanMustGo

11-26-2007, 02:53 PM

Now, Findog, you KNOW that defense doesn't matter to "true" fans like DSF.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 02:55 PM

Conjecture. You cannot conclusively say that Nash would be a good defender with Duncan. The Spurs defense is predicated on extremely fast rotations and allowing no open shots. No breakdowns. Nash would blow a hole in that idea the size of Kansas.

Of course, with Duncan and Bowen teaching him footwork, he just might improve a bit! :drunk

What would the Suns look like with Parker?

Probably how they look when Barbosa's on the court. Their games are much more similar than Nash and Parker's.

Parker scores and thats it.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:55 PM

Also, its true that these two don't even guard each other. This gets back to the Nash is bad defender hypocrisy.

Yeah, I said as much in post #42. Why wouldn't the Spurs put Bowen on Nash? It would be a waste to have Bowen slack off on Raja camping out at the 3-point line. Just because Bowen does a better job of guarding Nash than Parker doesn't mean Parker is as sucky a defender as Nash.

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 02:56 PM

Steve Nash played with a dominating big man in Dallas, another regular season MVP no less! Did they ever win a championship? Ever? Ever?
Never.

Yes, Dirk Nowitzki, the dominating All-Defensive team big man who can score in the post better than KG... oh wait.

Findog

11-26-2007, 02:56 PM

Now, Findog, you KNOW that defense doesn't matter to "true" fans like DSF.

Yeah. Which is why I'm pretty pessimistic about the Mavs right now, because our defense sucks ass this early in the season. I know we won't go any further than Round Two unless it improves.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 03:00 PM

Yeah, I said as much in post #42. Why wouldn't the Spurs put Bowen on Nash? It would be a waste to have Bowen slack off on Raja camping out at the 3-point line. Just because Bowen does a better job of guarding Nash than Parker doesn't mean Parker is as sucky a defender as Nash.

Hahahaha. Please.

Why should the Suns waste Shawn Marion on Bruce Bowen since he just camps out on the three point line?

Just because Marion does a better job on Parker than Nash doesn't mean Nash is as sucky a defender as Parker.

Findog

11-26-2007, 03:03 PM

Hahahaha. Please.

Why should the Suns waste Shawn Marion on Bruce Bowen since he just camps out on the three point line?

I'd rather have Marion guarding Duncan than Parker, but that's just me and not Coach Three First Names.

da_suns_fan__

11-26-2007, 03:09 PM

I'd rather have Marion guarding Duncan than Parker, but that's just me and not Coach Three First Names.

Weren't you one of the guys glossing Kurt Thomas' job on Duncan?

Extra Stout

11-26-2007, 03:17 PM

I'd rather have Marion guarding Duncan than Parker, but that's just me and not Coach Three First Names.
Marion doesn't do that great a job on Duncan. The Suns have tried it before.

Tippecanoe

11-26-2007, 03:17 PM

i find these power rankings a lot more accurate :smokin

http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/

leemajors

11-26-2007, 03:31 PM

I don't know what this means.

The Spurs are actually good and have won something recently.

All Arkansas has produced is a crazed fan posting a video of him shooting his Auburn tickets with a shotgun on YouTube.
link?

Findog

11-26-2007, 03:41 PM

Marion doesn't do that great a job on Duncan. The Suns have tried it before.

Nobody does that great of a job on Duncan. But I think Marion would do better than Amare, Sean Marks or Brian Skinner, which are their only other options.

resistanze

11-26-2007, 03:42 PM

Marion doesn't do that great a job on Duncan. The Suns have tried it before.
That's probably true. I was watching the Suns game against the Clippers a few days ago and Ruben Patterson was abusing Marion on the low block like he owed him money.

Findog

11-26-2007, 03:42 PM

Weren't you one of the guys glossing Kurt Thomas' job on Duncan?

KT allowed them to get away with not doubling him all the time so they could stay home on San Antonio's 3-point shooters. And on offense, he consistently hit the midrange jumper when the Spurs funneled the ball to him.

He's a big reason why the Suns were actually competitive this time instead of the waxing they took in 05.

Walter Craparita

11-26-2007, 03:57 PM

Suns will have no choice but to double team TD.

DSF better hope Barry, Finley, Bowen, Ginobili, PARKER, Horry, Bonner, and the Spurs Coyote aren't knocking down 3's.

I put Nash > Parker though.

703 Spurz

11-26-2007, 04:19 PM

Cry Havoc

11-26-2007, 04:20 PM

What would the Suns look like with Parker?

Probably how they look when Barbosa's on the court. Their games are much more similar than Nash and Parker's.

Parker scores and thats it.

Which is why Parker has a far superior assist to turnover ratio this year compared to Nash, right? :rolleyes

monosylab1k

11-26-2007, 04:20 PM

Parker had 3 rings and Nash has none.
Championships are an insignificant detail to DSF.

ehz33satx

11-26-2007, 06:18 PM

Championships are an insignificant detail to DSF.

That is true. Why is competing for championships more important than ACTUALLY winning championships more important to DSF? The Suns maybe in the running, but finishing the job started and winning the whole thing are not so grandious to him. Here's to the San Antonio Spurs winning it all again this year! :toast

RonMexico

11-26-2007, 06:36 PM

Nostradomus predicted Suns 2008 Victory.

If not, Nick Saban told me it will be "as tragic as 9/11"

JMarkJohns

11-26-2007, 06:39 PM

That is true. Why is competing for championships more important than ACTUALLY winning championships more important to DSF? The Suns maybe in the running, but finishing the job started and winning the whole thing are not so grandious to him. Here's to the San Antonio Spurs winning it all again this year! :toast

I don't get the logic being used to favor Parker over Nash. What does a team have to do with individual player comparisons? If your only (or best) defense of a Parker over Nash stance is that Parker has three Titles and a Finals MVP, then it's not much of a defense. There are plenty of role players that have many more Titles than All-Time greats.

Findog, RonMexico, and maybe others have made some great points for a pro-Nash stance. I'm not saying you would be wrong to have a stance contrary, but it would need to be something a bit more compelling than simply winning a Title or three.

Nash is the better shooter by far.
Nash is the better passer by far.
While Parker is the better overall athlete, Nash is very quick in the open floor as well.

In fact, on offense, Parker's best strength is his athletic ability and quickness, the latter being a strength of Nash as well.

Since neither one of the two guards each other, as Marion or Bell is typically on Parker and Bowen is typically on Nash, it's almost impossible to compare defense.

I do know that Parker may be the better defender of the two because he has a coach who's system is based around playing defense and an All-Time defender in Duncan to clean up any mess behind him. If Nash had a better defensive system and a good, consistant shotblocker behind him, since he always puts forth an effort on that end, one would think he'd at least look improved, even if he really isn't.

It's tough to compare the two as each is a different type of PG. However, Nash is the better pure PG and Parker is probably a slightly more complete player.

But Parker's Titles are a tough addition to consider, especially when you think of past greats like Stockton who never won a Title. Is he really any less great because of the failure? Should it really be held against him that he couldn't quite overcome the failures of a team? Basketball is not an individual sport. The failings of a team should only affect an indiviual player from said team to the extent said player put forth a winning effort.

Looking at Nash's stats, I can't say he never gave 100%. He put up amazing stats against a great defensive player and against a great defensive system. I mean, everyone here loves to bash the Suns defense. Well, if Nash put up better numbers than Parker despite playing against the tougher defense, then...

JamStone

11-26-2007, 07:01 PM

Utah is 10-4, that's a half-game better. Other than that, name a team other than the previous four that is better than the Mavs right now.

Atlanta, Milwaukee, Indiana ... as proven on the basketball court.

Findog

11-26-2007, 07:14 PM

Atlanta, Milwaukee, Indiana ... as proven on the basketball court.

It's Power Rankings overall, not Power Rankings against the Mavs.

Mr.Bottomtooth

11-26-2007, 07:36 PM

Pretty BS PR's there.

i find these power rankings a lot more accurate

http://www.nba.com/powerrankings/

Much better. :tu

Findog

11-26-2007, 07:59 PM

It's tough to compare the two as each is a different type of PG. However, Nash is the better pure PG and Parker is probably a slightly more complete player.

It's also tough to compare the two because they are asked to do different things by their teams. Parker is a second banana whose life is made easier by Duncan. Nash is unquestionably the Suns' leader and their most important player. As such, I think Nash's flaws are more easily visible because he has and will continue to be judged on whether or not he can take the Suns to the promised land as a franchise player. Parker, on the other hand, need only be very good to have been judged to have done his job.