Interesting Stats

[Martin R]

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3381/dibujodu5.th.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dibujodu5.jpg)


Manu is clearly one of the most effective players in the league.

source : NBA.com

[smeagol]

sequ and ducks don't agree

[ArgSpursFan.]

T Park eather.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

ShoogarBear won't probably agree to this either. He will say this is an absolute.

[romain.star]

ShoogarBear won't probably agree to this either. He will say this is an absolute.

the question remains the same: if manu scores 0.67 points per minute during his first 28.7 minutes... why doesn't pop give him more minutes?

He scores 20/19 points a game, which is great, but PER is just Science Fiction

[urunobili]

the question remains the same: if manu scores 0.67 points per minute during his first 28.7 minutes... why doesn't pop give him more minutes?

He scores 20/19 points a game, which is great, but PER is just Science Fiction
he doesn't het more minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs... and.. he's white... white bodies get fatigued faster.... :music

[ArgSpursFan.]

the question remains the same: if manu scores 0.67 points per minute during his first 28.7 minutes... why doesn't pop give him more minutes?
Acording to Pop,with the intensity manu plays,He should play around 30 mpg in order to get to the playoff in good shape.
Tony is a total diferent deal,He doesn't get hurted that much and his game aint as physical as Manu's eather.


He scores 20/19 points a game, which is great, but PER is just Science Fiction

Actually,PER shows ¨on the court numbers/stats¨only, which is basicaly what matters the most.

[romain.star]

Acording to Pop,with the intensity manu plays,He should play around 30 mpg in order to get to the playoff in good shape.
Tony is a total diferent deal,He doesn't get hurted that much and his game aint as physical as Manu's eather.



Actually,PER shows ¨on the court numbers/stats¨only, which is basicaly what matters the most.

what matters the most is how many points you score, not how many points you COULD score

[Bruno]

Points per FGA isn't a very interesting stat because it doesn't include FT% and it doesn't really reflect the offensive efficiency.

An example to explain what I said :
Dwight Howard scored 14 points (4-7 FG, 6-10 FT), Manu Ginobili scored also 14 points (4-7 FG, 6-6FT). No "and 1" or 3 points shoot.
Their Points per FGA is the same (2) but Howard has done it with 12 possessions and Manu has done it with 10 possesions. Manu has been more effective but this stat doesn't show it.

The true shooting % is a better one to show the offensive efficiency of a player :
http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2008/jh_ALL_TSP.htm

[phyzik]

he doesn't het more minutes to keep him fresh for the playoffs... and.. he's white... white bodies get fatigued faster.... :music

Hey, Im white!

Id come kick your ass.... but Im a little tired. :downspin:

[FromWayDowntown]

the question remains the same: if manu scores 0.67 points per minute during his first 28.7 minutes... why doesn't pop give him more minutes?

He scores 20/19 points a game, which is great, but PER is just Science Fiction

If Pop would just play him 48 minutes per night, Manu would average 32.2 a game!! Come on, Pop! This isn't about pacing players and doing what's right for the team -- it's about ensuring that Manu gets his chance to show that he's a statistical superstar.

Lord knows that Manu isn't truly respected around the league or anything.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Lord knows that Manu isn't truly respected around the league or anything.

Not only around the league, some spurs fans don't give him respect either.

[romain.star]

Not only around the league, some spurs fans don't give him respect either.

hearing this from you, that's quite funny actually !

[ArgSpursFan.]

what matters the most is how many points you score, not how many points you COULD score

you're wrong again.
That's not PER,what you are refering to is: PP 48 mins
PER is a diferent thing.It shows the whole picture of what you produce while on the court.Not only PPG.

[romain.star]

you're wrong again.
That's not PER,what you are refering to is: PP 48 mins
PER is a diferent thing.It shows the whole picture of what you produce while on the court.Not only PPG.


yep but the idea remains the same

[ArgSpursFan.]

yep but the idea remains the same

of course,Manu>Tony :lol
that wont change at all.

[ShoogarBear]

ShoogarBear won't probably agree to this either. He will say this is an absolute.I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate you have any idea what you're talking about.

[FromWayDowntown]

Not only around the league, some spurs fans don't give him respect either.

Actually, I think that Manu Ginobili is greatly respected around the league and truly admired by most Spurs fans who understand that loving Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili isn't an either/or proposition.

My statement was really quite sarcastic.

[romain.star]

of course,Manu>Tony :lol
that wont change at all.

:lol

dude, i believe this war will never end...
30 years from now, people will keep on arguing about it...

[ArgSpursFan.]

:lol

dude, i believe this war will never end...
30 years from now, people will keep on arguing about it...

As long as Tony and Manu are able to be the best tandem of Guards in the NBA like they are, I'm cool with it. :toast

[nkdlunch]

those figures don't show how effective manu is.

those figures don't show manu's assists,steals,rebounds

not to mention his good defense and he runs the plays for spurs 1/2 the time he is on the court

[romain.star]

As far as Tony and Manu are able to be the best tandem of Guards in the NBA like they are, I'm cool with it. :toast

You're right but the funny thing here is that when you disagree with a stat (which is unfortunately in favor of Manu), it means that you are a Parker Homer... that's quite sad actually

[ArgSpursFan.]

You're right but the funny thing here is that when you disagree with a stat (which is unfortunately in favor of Manu), it means that you are a Parker Homer... that's quite sad actually

yeap,but you have to see the whole picture in order to analize any stat,so if you consider the minutes played,you could actually see how effective the player is while on the court.Meaning PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/FG%/3 PTS % etc

[romain.star]

yeap,but you have to see the whole picture in order to analize any stat,so if you consider the minutes played,you could actually see how effective the player is while on the court.Meaning PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/FG%/3 PTS % etc

yes i agree with it but my logic remains the same: you don't win games with effectiveness (only)

[ArgSpursFan.]

yes i agree with it but my logic remains the same: you don't win games with effectiveness (only)

how do you win games though,scoring a bunch of points and playing 40 mpg?????
Nope,coze if so,the Suns should be the world champs right now,and they aren't and weren't eather.
That's why I'm saying that you have to look at the whole picture,sometimes(or most of the time) Manu does more for the spurs in 30 mpg tham any other player on any NBA team playing a whole bunch of minutes.

[romain.star]

how do you win games though,scoring a bunch of points and playing 40 mpg?????
Nope,coze if so,the Suns should be the world champs right now,and they aren't and weren't eather.
That's why I'm saying that you have to look at the whole picture,sometimes Manu does more for the spurs in 30 mpg tham any other player on any NBA time playing a whole bunch of minutes.


and that's why manu is so special... but i'm not arguing about manu's production here... i just say that i don't like the logic of these stats...
what's important is what you produce on a court, not what you COULD produce if you played more minutes...

[ManuAddicted]

PER also doesn't cound fearless, passion, energy...

[Shred]

http://www.wetasschronicles.com/OrcaBird.jpg

Manu Top 5 All-Time Flopper (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hruby/060303)

[ArgSpursFan.]

and that's why manu is so special... but i'm not arguing about manu's production here... i just say that i don't like the logic of these stats...
what's important is what you produce on a court, not what you COULD produce if you played more minutes...

let's put it this way .
tony is a better scorer tham Manu(by just 1 point per game)playing about 6 more mins tham Manu.
He also has more apg tham Manu(about 2 more APG)

But Manu is a better Rebounder,gets more steals and has a better Free throws and 3 pts shooting % tham Tony.

PER is actually a coeficient that comes from the analizis of all those numbers,Not just PPG

[romain.star]

let's put it this way .
tony is a better scorer tham Manu(by just 1 point per game)playing about 6 more mins tham Manu.
He also has more apg tham Manu(about 2 more APG)

But Manu is a better Rebounder,gets more steals and has a better Free throws and 3 pts shooting % tham Tony.

PER is actually a coeficient that comes from the analizis of all those numbers,Not just PPG

hey just stop comparing tony and manu... this has nothing to do with it...
but i keep (again and again) on thinking that PER is not that accurate.
A game lasts 48 minutes, a team needs to produce for 48 minutes... and the most valuable player is the one who is gonna produce the more during these 48 minutes...

[ShoogarBear]

Jackie Butler!

[ArgSpursFan.]

A game lasts 48 minutes, a team needs to produce for 48 minutes... and the most valuable player is the one who is gonna produce the more during these 48 minutes...

Oh,no you didn't.Please tell me you're being sarcastic here.
How come you think a human being will play 48 mins a game for an untire Regular season,and them get to the playoffs in good shape????
The NBA just don't work like that.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm still waiting for you to demonstrate you have any idea what you're talking about.

Oh.. my... GOD!

This is my original post, here:


PER is the closest thing we have to quantify and qualify the overall performance of a player (even with its flaws, etc). At least it's much better than just PPG, RPG, and APG.

This was your response:


Lot of absolutes being thrown around in here with zero data to back it up.

I don't have all the time you do to post a wall of text, but please, please.. if you know of a better way to quantify and qualify the overall performance of a player, other than how many points he scores, please post it below and I will embrace it. I have no more comments on this, PER seems better than straight points to me. Thanks for your time.

[ShoogarBear]

PER is better than anything else. But I can't back it up. And I don't really understand statistics.

[romain.star]

A game lasts 48 minutes, a team needs to produce for 48 minutes... and the most valuable player is the one who is gonna produce the more during these 48 minutes...

Oh,no you didn't.Please tell me you're being sarcastic here.
How come you think a human being will play 48 mins a game for an untire Regular season,and them get to the playoffs in good shape????
The NBA just don't work like that.

hey i'm not THAT idiot... you just misunderstood my point

[ArgSpursFan.]

hey i'm not THAT idiot... you just misunderstood my point

ok,so acording to your criteria,the NBA MVP should be the player who averages More Mins P/Game.
That's ridiculous.

[romain.star]

ok,so acording to your criteria,the NBA MVP should be the player who averages More Mins P/Game.
That's ridiculous.

the NBA MVP should be the player who averages the most, regardless of the time he spent on the floor

[SpurOutofTownFan]

ShoogarBear

I was gonna let it go.. but you are coming out as a moron on that one.. really, I'm disappointed. I thought you would just "educate" me with some good answers since it seems you argued with my opinion; therefore you probably had some good points you wanted to share rather than just hammering down an opinion without giving any explanation whatsoever as to your reaction... but I'm still waiting. Maybe, instead of making up stuff I didn't say, you could elaborate more on your argument. For a moment there, it seemed you wanted to say something...

[ArgSpursFan.]

I was gonna let it go.. but you are coming out as a moron on that one.. really, I'm disappointed. I thought you would just "educate" me with some good answers since it seems you argued with my opinion; therefore you probably had some good points you wanted to share rather than just hammering down an opinion without giving any explanation whatsoever as to your reaction... but I'm still waiting. Maybe, instead of making up stuff I didn't say, you could elaborate more on your argument. For a moment there, it seemed you wanted to say something...

Don't waste your keyboard lifetime on Stupid People,SpurOutoftown.
He just loves it picking on NonAmericans, and making them(us)look like fools.
Un morocho resentido,como diriamos nos.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Me da pena su idiotez, pero le dí la chance de retractarse y ser coherente con lo que dijo. A los bobos tambien se los respeta de donde vengo.

[ShoogarBear]

I was gonna let it go.. but you are coming out as a moron on that one.. really, I'm disappointed. I thought you would just "educate" me with some good answers since it seems you argued with my opinion; therefore you probably had some good points you wanted to share rather than just hammering down an opinion without giving any explanation whatsoever as to your reaction... but I'm still waiting. Maybe, instead of making up stuff I didn't say, you could elaborate more on your argument. For a moment there, it seemed you wanted to say something...LMAO. The discussion was in another thread, but you were too gutless to respond in that one, so instead you have to sneak off to another thread like a sniveling coward and call me out. Then you start squealing when you get it in return.

Of course, it figures that ArgSpursFan is your buddy. His is the kind of reputation you need to have attached to you.

[ShoogarBear]

Don't waste your keyboard lifetime on Stupid People,SpurOutoftown.
He just loves it picking on NonAmericans, and making them(us)look like fools.
Un morocho resentido,como diriamos nos.:lmao Should I repost ArgSpursFan's Greatest Hits?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

LMAO. The discussion was in another thread, but you were too gutless to respond in that one, so instead you have to sneak off to another thread like a sniveling coward and call me out. Then you start squealing when you get it in return.

Of course, it figures that ArgSpursFan is your buddy. His is the kind of reputation you need to have attached to you.

Dude, you are something for real! You put yourself in this hole, made a comment about something I posted and weren't able to explain your point. I have nothing to explain. I already told you I think PER is better than just PPG. Thanks for your time.

For the record: I don't know ArgSpursFan but it looks like he wasn't far off when he said those things about you. You are showing it now.

Ahora anda a dormir que te trasnochaste.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I'm smart

[ShoogarBear]

:dramaquee

[Martin R]

erhm...well....thanks for trashing the thread.