Game Thoughts: Toros vs. Skyforce - Nov. 30

[ChumpDumper]

Box Score (http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071130/SIFAUS/boxscore.html)

- The Toros got a huge infusion of talent - three players joined the team in the course of one day; two that had never practiced with the team. The game itself was predictably sloppy, partly because of the new players and partly because of the lineups Sioux Falls played, but the Toros pulled out another victory in the final minutes after trailing pretty much the entire game.

- Darius Washington started off the game with a nice assist to Ian, and proceeded to get into foul trouble. One of them was ticky-tack but I didn't find the refs to be particularly whistle-happy today. Whatever the case, DW was limited in the first half and Squeaky Johnson, Ken Paulino and Keith Langford all took some time at the point.

The second half was an entirely different story. Washington was everywhere, scoring and rebounding, getting some nice assists anNatew d avoiding any more fouls. In short, he played the way you want to see a borderline NBA-rotation player play at this level. Now I have to give a caveat about his numbers: David Bailey and Elton Nesbitt are the two of the smallest guards in the D-League, so we'll have to see if he can do the same against larger, better defenders.

- Ian Mahinmi had some more foul trouble, but some of it was caused by the lineup Nate Tibbetts ran in the second quarter. Three, maybe four of his best players are small forwards, so one of his best lineups had all four of them playing at once. That led to a lot of confusion about defensive assignments and some matchup problems for Ian, as he ended up on frequent NBA call-up Damone Brown on the perimeter. On the plus side, when the Skyforce had a more traditional lineup, Ian repeatedly drew fouls off their center with his first step. His best shot seems to be a baby hook in the lane (after he stops running, I can't stress that enough) and he's still good from the line.

- DerMarr Johnson looked the least apprehensive about his debut with the team. He took mostly good shots and ran the floor well, He got an acceptable number of rebounds, but overall he and the Toros got worked over on the boards by the Skyforce small forward brigade. A small-ball PF (he actually played small-ball center in this game) is going to have to be consistent in that department.

- Keith Triplett-- er, Marcus Williams seemed a little anxious at first, and he was forcing things on offense initially, leading to some turnovers. He calmed down however, and got a couple of big steals and very smart passes during the Toros comeback in the second half. A little ragged, but on the whole a nice debut.

- Langford had the scoring burden lifted off his back a bit but he was really hitting the ground hard after his typically aggressive drives. Hearing the thuds while sitting on the baseline makes me appreciate his game and effort that much more. He had some trouble on both sides of the court when he matched up with a much larger player, but kept plugging away and ended up with another good outing.

- Kenton Paulino had a good, steady game and looked pretty comfortable in his role. Pittsnogle was mostly invisible as his shot wasn't falling; he probably played a little too much considering the matchups. Bowen was active but didn't do much that showed up in the stat lines. He didn't score until the fourth quarter, but his new teammates should figure out where to get him the ball a bit more in time. Anthony Fuqua and Squeaky Johnson took the biggest hit in their minutes. I'm sure Fuqua can adapt (again) and hopefully Squeaky can get some decent minutes as the Toros will rely on him once Washington is called back up to the Spurs.

- Eric Dawson is still in street clothes but still on the roster. Looks like Majic Dorsey was waived but he is still with the team. He may be injured or "injured" but I didn't get a chance to ask him anything.

- Antywane Robinson looks like he's going to have a breakout season. Not the best ballhandler, but he was pretty solid in all other aspects of the game. Sioux Falls is loaded with long SFs, and three of them -- Robinson, Damone Brown and Nik Caner-Medly -- could be called up at some point, though each has his deficiencies.

- In closing, the Toros are now pretty flush with talent and pretty balanced too with the exception of reliable post scoring. Coach Snyder did a decent job of improvising a rotation, now the big job of integrating the new players and serving the needs of the Spurs while trying to win some games really begins. It should be fun to watch.

[duncan228]

Nice ChumpDumper.

I get all my D League info from you, I confess to only follow it through ST.
My interest broadened when the Spurs got the Toros.
The more info I get, the more interested I'm becoming.

Thanks for the effort. It's appreciated.
And it's creating a fan for the D League.

[timvp]

Thanks.

With all that talent do you think there is enough playing time? That's a lot of bodies to be trying to give minutes to.

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks.

With all that talent do you think there is enough playing time? That's a lot of bodies to be trying to give minutes to.That could be a problem, though minutes could vary a lot depending on the matchups. Today's matchups actually allowed the Toros to play a lineup of PG/Langford/Williams/Bowen/Johnson for a significant amount of time. I could see the Toros playing a slightly more traditional small ball lineup against Colorado where Pittsnogle might be the odd man out if Ian doesn't get into foul trouble. I'm sure that getting 30-35 minutes for each Spur assignee is the first priority, then things get a little more fluid just like they do with the Spurs. IMO Pittsnogle is going to have to show a little more on the floor and the stat sheet if he expects to keep playing 30mpg, especially whenever Dawson gets healthy.

[Mr. Body]

"Where's your Will Conroy NOW?"

[ChumpDumper]

Same place Robertas Javtokas is and Darius Washington was last season before he moved to a lower level league.

[mystargtr34]

Daruis scored and rebounded really well... 8 TO's and 5 assists though, but like you said... new line up.

[Mr. Body]

I know, I was only kidding. I was hoping to pick up a Conroy type back in the day, too. Hope Washington keeps it up.

[ChumpDumper]

I know, I was only kidding. I was hoping to pick up a Conroy type back in the day, too. Hope Washington keeps it up.Yeah, we were all in the "anyone but Beno boat." I just like keeping track; you never know what is going to happen -- Darius good enough proof of that. Will is on the same team as Cheyne Gadsen is/was; not a great team but still Italian A level. Ansu Sesay is there too.

[Bruno]

Conroy started the season with another team in Italy but was quite bad. They decided to trade him to Gadson's former team.

[Bruno]

BTW,

:elephant Marcus is back :elephant

[Southern]

Thanks..

When comeback Marcus Williams?
How about his play?

[AFBlue]

Thanks..

When comeback Marcus Williams?
How about his play?

5 assists...that's pretty encouraging.

A point forward type?

[ChumpDumper]

Marcus made good passes to cutters and open shooters, but hre doesn't seem to be a good enough handler to truly run the point.

[Budkin]

Awesome Chump and thank you! Hopefully I'll get to meet you in person as soon as I make it to a game!

[AFBlue]

Marcus made good passes to cutters and open shooters, but hre doesn't seem to be a good enough handler to truly run the point.

Gotcha...

Suprising about his handle, because that was supposed to be a strength of his game, but that's cool.

Did he show a good balance of looking to score and being unselfish?

How was his D?

I'm just trying to get a better read on this kid than the 10 games he played during the SL.

Based on today's rotation and the way he played, do you think he'll get significant minutes for them in the future?

[ChumpDumper]

Suprising about his handle, because that was supposed to be a strength of his game, but that's cool.His handle is ok, but not NBA point level. He could being up the ball if needed, but i wouldn't ask him to do much more.


Did he show a good balance of looking to score and being unselfish?He called his own number a little too much at first, but I think he just wanted to get that first basket out of the way. He was pretty unselfish after that, as the assist total shows.


How was his D?Not too bad, although on the whole the Toros' small forwards were outclassed by those of the Skyforce. He got lost like the others trying to figure out whom to guard and where to rotate in the supersmallball lineup. Can't judge anyone too harshly in a first game like this.



Based on today's rotation and the way he played, do you think he'll get significant minutes for them in the future?Yes, though I expect his minutes to vary greatly from game to game until Snyder settles on a rotation - if he ever does. Sometimes the situations that arise over the season in the D-League simply don't allow that.

[AFBlue]

Cool, thanks for all the info.

I'll be looking forward to hearing more about the development of Williams, Washington, and Mahinmi among others in your future "Toros Game Thoughts" threads.

Thanks again.

[SequSpur]

So who won?

[AFBlue]

So who won?

Toros...behind a STRONG second half from Darius Washington.

114- 109 was the final I believe

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks.No problem. They're just a pale imitation of the big league game thoughts, but what the hell? I got the automatic "Did you even watch the game?" advantage over pretty much everyone.

[SequSpur]

Toros...behind a STRONG second half from Darius Washington.

114- 109 was the final I believe

Good, all they need is a bunch of players that chumpdumper talks shit about but can't win a fucking game.

[whottt]

Looking at the boxscore...

No blocks for Ian...bad. Actually this looks like his worst game as a Toro except in the foul department.


Holy Cow...Darius Washington tore it up.

Honestly...from what I have seen of Darius...he's got at least B level talent, possibly starting level talent...it's his knowledge of the game that needs the most work. That's been the knock on him for a while from what I've read...and he's shown a lot of improvement in that area.

That statline looks completely dominant...small lineup or not.

[timvp]

The Toros play again tomorrow and then are off for a week. That's a pretty weird schedule. I wonder if the Spurs will recall one of Mahinmi or Washington after the game tomorrow. If Horry isn't healthy, it'd make sense because the Spurs have three home games before the Toros play again. If it wasn't for the rule about only being able to send down a player three times, it'd be a no-brainer.

The Marcus Williams saga is odd. The Toros bring him back ... but then at the same time sign DerMarr Johnson, who plays almost exactly the same role. Johnson is basically equal to Williams except for further along in development. Why would you bring Johnson into the fold if you are still looking to develop Williams? Having both players is overkill.

If Pittsnogle flames out, and it's not looking like he's exactly tearing it up, perhaps Williams can get minutes at power forward. He played a lot at that position in college at Arizona and it'd fit well with his skillset. Thinking about it, Williams' most probable route back to the NBA could be as a perimeter oriented smallish 4. Basically like a shorter Derrick McKey. He'd have to gain like 30 pounds of muscle and totally rework how he plays, though . . .

[ChumpDumper]

Most of the time there was never a good matchup for Ian. Whenever they brought out their only real big man, former Longhorn Jason Klotz, Ian ran around him and drew a foul. Ian is probably athletic enough to keep up with the small forwards that replaced Klotz, but he doesn't have a perimeter defending mentality as of yet. That's got to be further down the road. Ian's best blocking is help blocking, and the Skyforce forwards were hitting a lot of midrange stuff he couldn't get to in time. Also his offense is based more on speed than power, so his moves were kind of negated by all the smaller players that teamed up to guard him after Klotz was taken out.

I'm looking forward to seeing him play against Elton Brown tonight if things work out that way. Ian is the kind of player that matches up well against Brown on both ends of the court.

[Darkwaters]

I have a few questions about the game for Chump.

How did Darius look running the team? Did he manage the game well?

How does Marcus' jumper look? Is he still cocking the ball back too far when his feet are set?

How does Justin Bowen's game look? He seems to have been overshadowed recently by all the other prospects on the team (most notably Dermarr Johnson). Does he still look like a solid prospect.

You mentioned the Skyforce had a nice set of SFs. Were any of them potential Spurs callups?

[Darkwaters]

Toros Re-Acquire Marcus Williams
November 30, 2007 - 6:30 pm
RealGM Staff Report -
The Austin Toros have re-acquired forward Marcus Williams who had been injured during the preseason, and waived their seventh-round selection in this years D-League Draft, guard Daryl "Majic" Dorsey.

Williams who was in uniform today and scored 12 points against the Sioux Falls Skyforce, was the San Antonio Spurs second round selection in the 2007 NBA Draft after playing two seasons at Arizona. He averaged 13 points a game in 2005-06 and 16.6 points and 6.7 rebounds the following season for the Wildcats. In 2007 he was named to the All Pac-10 team.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/49480/20071130/toros_re_acquire_marcus_williams/

[WhyWontNashDIE?]

it looked like when washington was still with SA his biggest problem was overdribbling

[ChumpDumper]

I have a few questions about the game for Chump.

How did Darius look running the team? Did he manage the game well? I have to give a grade of incomplete here. Since he didn't have a practice with the team, most of the set plays involved giving the ball to Ian or Keith and letting them work. In the second half, he was unleashed and spent most of the time scoring. If he stays all next week, we should expect more attempts at playmaking. I'm looking forward to the games against Tulsa and Hidalgo where he will have some stiffer competition at the point.


How does Marcus' jumper look? Is he still cocking the ball back too far when his feet are set?I wasn't paying too much attention to his mechanics; I will next time. He missed both his three pointers but hit a couple of midrange shots.


How does Justin Bowen's game look? He seems to have been overshadowed recently by all the other prospects on the team (most notably Dermarr Johnson). Does he still look like a solid prospect. He was largely left out of the offense early with all the new guys looking to establish themselves, and everyone was thrown by the Skyforce's four SF lineup, so I wouldn't read too much into this particular game. We'll have to see if the new guys cut further into his minutes or displace him from the starting lineup.


You mentioned the Skyforce had a nice set of SFs. Were any of them potential Spurs callups?Damone Brown rail-thin and running out of upside but skilled and smart enough to be a perennial call-up candidate for a team looking for a short term injury replacement or good practice player.

Nik Caner-Medley knows how to play the game but short arms and slow feet -- a real tweener in the bad sense of the word but still has some potential if he can do things like get a more consistent outside shot. Makes me think of Matt Harpring.

Antywane Robinson probably has the most upside, and seems like he's improved quite a bit since last season. He's a reasonably good athlete, 6'8" with a huge wingspan. He's shooting lights out from everywhere so far this season. We'll have to see if this game was a fluke for his rebounding. I'll keep an eye on this one.

[spurscenter]

Box Score (http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071130/SIFAUS/boxscore.html)

- The Toros got a huge infusion of talent - three players joined the team in the course of one day; two that had never practiced with the team. The game itself was predictably sloppy, partly because of the new players and partly because of the lineups Sioux Falls played, but the Toros pulled out another victory in the final minutes after trailing pretty much the entire game.

- Darius Washington started off the game with a nice assist to Ian, and proceeded to get into foul trouble. One of them was ticky-tack but I didn't find the refs to be particularly whistle-happy today. Whatever the case, DW was limited in the first half and Squeaky Johnson, Ken Paulino and Keith Langford all took some time at the point.

The second half was an entirely different story. Washington was everywhere, scoring and rebounding, getting some nice assists anNatew d avoiding any more fouls. In short, he played the way you want to see a borderline NBA-rotation player play at this level. Now I have to give a caveat about his numbers: David Bailey and Elton Nesbitt are the two of the smallest guards in the D-League, so we'll have to see if he can do the same against larger, better defenders.

- Ian Mahinmi had some more foul trouble, but some of it was caused by the lineup Nate Tibbetts ran in the second quarter. Three, maybe four of his best players are small forwards, so one of his best lineups had all four of them playing at once. That led to a lot of confusion about defensive assignments and some matchup problems for Ian, as he ended up on frequent NBA call-up Damone Brown on the perimeter. On the plus side, when the Skyforce had a more traditional lineup, Ian repeatedly drew fouls off their center with his first step. His best shot seems to be a baby hook in the lane (after he stops running, I can't stress that enough) and he's still good from the line.

- DerMarr Johnson looked the least apprehensive about his debut with the team. He took mostly good shots and ran the floor well, He got an acceptable number of rebounds, but overall he and the Toros got worked over on the boards by the Skyforce small forward brigade. A small-ball PF (he actually played small-ball center in this game) is going to have to be consistent in that department.

- Keith Triplett-- er, Marcus Williams seemed a little anxious at first, and he was forcing things on offense initially, leading to some turnovers. He calmed down however, and got a couple of big steals and very smart passes during the Toros comeback in the second half. A little ragged, but on the whole a nice debut.

- Langford had the scoring burden lifted off his back a bit but he was really hitting the ground hard after his typically aggressive drives. Hearing the thuds while sitting on the baseline makes me appreciate his game and effort that much more. He had some trouble on both sides of the court when he matched up with a much larger player, but kept plugging away and ended up with another good outing.

- Kenton Paulino had a good, steady game and looked pretty comfortable in his role. Pittsnogle was mostly invisible as his shot wasn't falling; he probably played a little too much considering the matchups. Bowen was active but didn't do much that showed up in the stat lines. He didn't score until the fourth quarter, but his new teammates should figure out where to get him the ball a bit more in time. Anthony Fuqua and Squeaky Johnson took the biggest hit in their minutes. I'm sure Fuqua can adapt (again) and hopefully Squeaky can get some decent minutes as the Toros will rely on him once Washington is called back up to the Spurs.

- Eric Dawson is still in street clothes but still on the roster. Looks like Majic Dorsey was waived but he is still with the team. He may be injured or "injured" but I didn't get a chance to ask him anything.

- Antywane Robinson looks like he's going to have a breakout season. Not the best ballhandler, but he was pretty solid in all other aspects of the game. Sioux Falls is loaded with long SFs, and three of them -- Robinson, Damone Brown and Nik Caner-Medly -- could be called up at some point, though each has his deficiencies.

- In closing, the Toros are now pretty flush with talent and pretty balanced too with the exception of reliable post scoring. Coach Snyder did a decent job of improvising a rotation, now the big job of integrating the new players and serving the needs of the Spurs while trying to win some games really begins. It should be fun to watch.


Thanks for the updates on Toros, thats awesome!

[biba]

Washington Leads Toros Over Skyforce
http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20071130/SIFAUS/recap.html

AUSTIN, TX – Darius Washington scored 32 points in his first game after being assigned to the Austin Toros and helped the team defeat the Sioux Falls Skyforce 114-109 on Friday afternoon at the Austin Convention Center. Austin rallied from as many as 16 points down in the third quarter to win their second game of the season and improve their record to 2-1.

Washington, a 6-2, 195 pound guard on assignment from the San Antonio Spurs, scored all but four of his 32 points in the second half. The Toros took the lead for the first time in the second half on a pair of free throws by newly acquired forward Marcus Williams with 3:42 left to play in the game.

“Darius really ignited us in the second half, I thought we just played a lot harder and had a lot of pride on the defensive end,” Toros head coach Quin Snyder said. “It’s hard for the whole team when we are trying to re-acclimate to new players and adjust roles.”

Beginning the second half with a 62-50 advantage, the Skyforce looked to be in control of the game after Nik Caner-Medley’s lay-up pushed the lead to 16 points. The Toros would end the quarter on a 34-19 run and Justin Bowen’s 3-point basket to end the quarter cut the Sioux Falls advantage to 87-86 going to the last quarter of play.

Along with being assigned Spurs guard Darius Washington, the Toros made several other roster moves before the game including acquiring forward Marcus Williams and forward DerMarr Johnson.

“I thought they both got more comfortable as the game when on - Marcus made some big plays in the second half and DerMarr made some shots early that kept us close,” Snyder said. “Our bench was great and were able to play and make a difference without getting big minutes.”

The Skyforce were led in scoring by Nic Caner-Medley, who finished with 22 points and 11 rebounds. Antywane Robinson added 21 points and 10 rebounds and Damone Brown contributed 20 points for Sioux Falls, who fell to 0-2 on the season.

Other Toros in double figures included Keith Langford (19) and Kenton Paulino (11). The Toros play the second game of their weekend back-to-back when they face the Colorado 14ers tomorrow night at 7:00 p.m. at the Austin Convention Center.


HOME: Austin Toros
REBOUNDS
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
Keith Langford 40:04 7-13 1-3 4-9 2 2 4 3 1 2 1 1 19
Darius Washington32:41 12-20 1-3 7-8 7 5 12 5 3 1 8 0 32
Kevin Pittsnogle 21:54 3-7 1-4 2-3 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 9
Justin Bowen 25:29 2-5 1-2 0-0 0 3 3 0 3 0 0 1 5
Ian Mahinmi 26:15 3-4 0-0 3-4 0 5 5 1 4 0 1 0 9
DerMarr Johnson 33:29 5-11 2-5 1-2 0 5 5 0 2 0 2 0 13
Marcus Williams 31:01 4-8 0-2 4-4 0 3 3 5 2 3 5 1 12
Kenton Paulino 14:00 3-4 1-2 4-5 0 0 0 3 2 1 0 0 11
Carldell Johnson 08:33 1-2 0-1 0-0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 2
Anthony Fuqua 06:34 1-1 0-0 0-0 1 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 2
Eric Dawson 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Tim Bush 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
TOTAL 240 41-75 7-22 25-35 10 24 34 17 19 7 18 3 114
54.7% 31.8% 71.4% Team Rebs: 8 Total TO: 18


SCORE BY PERIOD 1 2 3 4 FINAL
Skyforce 25 37 25 22 109
Toros 21 29 36 28 114

[Bruno]

Antywane Robinson has signed in France with Pau-Orthez.

[ChumpDumper]

Thanks - I was wondering why he didn't suit up last night. I guess someone noticed. Good for him.