Should Duncan be considered an American or International player?

[urunobili]

Hello Guys;
i see a lot of discussion everywhere and i even get confused myself on NBA.com or TV or the press in general about considering Timmy as an International player. i would like to have your take on this. I have always thought he was kinda forced to be part of the USA Basketball program due to his greatness and he always knew how much it means for Pop. But i think the whole reason about why he never did it again means that he feels he is form the U.S. Virgin Islands and should be playing with them instead. I think he would guide them to good appearances in different tournaments since Raja Bell would be on the roster as well.

Please do not turn this into a National Pride thread. the whole intention is to have a SpursTalk general point of view and know what the majority thinks.

Hope to hear from y'all

[Freeze]

U.S. Virgin Islands

all is here, he is from US and in the US, from the Virgin Islands.

[travis2]

At the time Tim was being considered for Olympic basketball, USVI didn't have a team. Since that time, they have formed a team...but once you have competed for one team you can't compete for another.

At least that's how I remember it.

[diego]

what i dont get, is why US territories have unique representation in the olympics.

[bdictjames]

Even if Bell was on the team, the thought of Duncan playing in the Olympics scares me. I'd rather him rest in the OFFseason.

Anyway, back to the point of the thread, I think Duncan's an American player.

[urunobili]

U.S. Virgin Islands

all is here, he is from US and in the US, from the Virgin Islands.
i know.. but i am really confused that they have their own flag, their own Olympics representation and they're not part of the 50 US.. bah' 51 with PR now.. and Arroyo and Co always play for PR...

[duncan228]

At the time Tim was being considered for Olympic basketball, USVI didn't have a team. Since that time, they have formed a team...but once you have competed for one team you can't compete for another.

At least that's how I remember it.

There was a VI team the year Duncan played. He sat out that game by his own choice. He did not want to play against them.

[And1Mak]

American, because Duncan considers himself American.
How can you argue with Duncan about his own nationality?

[urunobili]

There was a VI team the year Duncan played. He sat out that game by his own choice. He did not want to play against them.
do you think my theory could be right then? that he was kinda forced knowing how much it meant for Pop? never knew what you said it reinforces my beliefs...

[Kori Ellis]

It has nothing to do with Pop.

I believe the situation is .. Duncan played on Team USA when he was in college (back when there was no Virgin Islands team). And because he played for Team USA, he couldn't then switch and play for a different national team once the VI team was established. However, he did sit out against the VI because he didn't feel comfortable playing against them.

[urunobili]

It has nothing to do with Pop.

I believe the situation is .. Duncan played on Team USA when he was in college (back when there was no Virgin Islands team). And because he played for Team USA, he couldn't then switch and play for a different national team once the VI team was established. However, he did sit out against the VI because he didn't feel comfortable playing against them.
thank you Kori, that explains it. i never knew he played while on college. hope you voted you take though!

[Holt's Cat]

Pop coaching against TD would be interesting, but I hope I never see it.

[Kori Ellis]

Also to answer the original question posted in the thread, he's both an American player and an International player :lol When the NBA publishes the list of international players each year, Duncan is on it. After all, he wasn't born within the United States of America - his ethic heritage is Croixian (or Caribbean or whatever you want to say).

But his nationality is definitely American because he was born in an insular area of the United States where the citizens are automatically given U.S. Citizenship.

[Extra Stout]

Also to answer the original question posted in the thread, he's both an American player and an International player :lol When the NBA publishes the list of international players each year, Duncan is on it. After all, he wasn't born within the United States of America - his ethic heritage is Croixian (or Caribbean or whatever you want to say).

But his nationality is definitely American because he was born in an insular area of the United States where the citizens are automatically given U.S. Citizenship.
I believe the term is "Cruzan."

[Man In Black]

Technically, if there was a Junior USVI team, Tim could've played for that team and switch to play on the US Senior Men's team. Once a player competes for a Senior team, then he is locked in. That's per FIBA Rules.

[urunobili]

Technically, if there was a Junior USVI team, Tim could've played for that team and switch to play on the US Senior Men's team. Once a player competes for a Senior team, then he is locked in. That's per FIBA Rules.
Kori... i think my original posting might make sense if this is true then... :rolleyes

[Summers]

Technically, if there was a Junior USVI team, Tim could've played for that team and switch to play on the US Senior Men's team. Once a player competes for a Senior team, then he is locked in. That's per FIBA Rules.

But Kori's correct about this. There wasn't a VI team when Tim was in college so he played for the US team. Once the VI formed a team, Tim wasn't eligible to switch and play for them.

[carib]

At the time Tim was being considered for Olympic basketball, USVI didn't have a team. Since that time, they have formed a team...but once you have competed for one team you can't compete for another.

At least that's how I remember it.

If he wanted to compete for any other country he can, as long as he doesn’t compete international for 3 too 4 years.

Merlene Ottey did it and others also.

[Summers]

Oh, and the poll to me is kind of like asking us if we're Texans or Americans.

[Freeze]

If he wanted to compete for any other country he can, as long as he doesn’t compete international for 3 too 4 years.

Merlene Ottey did it and others also.

Other sport = other federation = other rule.

[Deimosfobos]

The islands are part of USA, he played his hole carrer on USA, he played or the USA team...

He's NOT an international player.

[urunobili]

But Kori's correct about this. There wasn't a VI team when Tim was in college so he played for the US team. Once the VI formed a team, Tim wasn't eligible to switch and play for them.
never knew they're offcialy a state like Texas is... do you get a US passport just for being born in the US virgin Islands?

[Extra Stout]

Oh, and the poll to me is kind of like asking us if we're Texans or Americans.
Texas = U.S. state
V.I. = U.S.-controlled territory

Not exactly the same.

[Extra Stout]

never knew they're offcialy a state like Texas is... do you get a US passport just for being born in the US virgin Islands?
No... but you don't get one just for being born in Texas, either. You have to apply for it and pay a fee -- and the fee is relatively high.

A person born in the USVI is, however, a U.S. citizen. While residing in the VI he may not vote in a presidential election; however, upon moving to a state, said person may vote without anything more strenuous than the standard voter registration.

[duncan228]

This is from training camp in '05.

There's the usual backround story, but it tells how Duncan re-established residency in the Virgin Islands in '99.
His foundation, and his tax money, let him give back to the community he grew up in.
His Foundation also helps kids and cancer patients in San Antonio and the Carolinas (where Wake Forest is.)

Whether he's American or International really doesn't matter.
The kind of man he is matters.

http://thebeach.vi/duncan-vi-hero.html

Spurs' Duncan remains a local hero in Virgin Islands
From the San Antonio Express-News

CHRISTIANSTED, U.S. Virgin Islands — Shaquille O'Neal nicknamed him Big Fundamental. Tony Parker's French-inflected title of choice remains the endearing Timm-eee.

To Sarah Harvey, however, Tim Duncan will always be Fishandfungi Man.

In between sweeping the floor and waiting tables at Harvey's self-named restaurant here in the main town of St. Croix, Duncan regularly helped himself to the proprietor's fish and fungi, a cornmeal dumpling made with okra and "just the right amount of love."

"If you don't eat the fungi," Harvey said with a smile, "you're not in St. Croix."

Harvey still serves up plenty of fungi, along with conch soup, goat stew and the other local favorites that make up her daily list of chalkboard specials. But her restaurant, long home to some of the island's best Caribbean cooking, also serves as a shrine to her former helper.

Visitors are greeted by a portrait of Duncan painted on the building's stone exterior. Inside, amid the red-and-white plastic tablecloths and paper placemats, is a giant autographed photo of Duncan taken from his days at Wake Forest. Stories about playoff victories and the Spurs' first championship hang on another wall, along with a team photo.

"I said all along he's got places to go," Harvey said. "One friend of mine said after Timmy's first game at Wake Forest, 'Oh, he's not going to make it.' I told him, 'You'll see. He's going to make it to the top.'"

Having won three NBA championships in seven years, during which he established himself as one of the game's best players, Duncan has made good on Harvey's vow. His homeland, it seems, continues to celebrate his success.

Duncan's return to the U.S. Virgin Islands was front-page news each day last week. More than 3,000 fans, many of whom paid more than $100 for a ticket, crammed into the Sport and Fitness Center on the University of the Virgin Islands' St. Thomas campus Friday night to watch the Spurs scrimmage.

During a visit to a local elementary school Friday afternoon, Duncan was greeted by more than 300 screaming students. Many of the fans at Friday's game wore his No. 21 jersey. One woman carried a handmade sign that read "Duncan 4 Governor."

"He's our greatest hero," said Gov. Charles W. Turnbull, the U.S. Virgin Islands' highest-ranking elected official. "The children respect him, and many would like to be like him. He's a true role model."

Duncan's only disappointment is that the Spurs weren't able to train in St. Croix. The islands' best gym is in St. Thomas, where the team has remained during its weeklong stay.

"I wish we were another 40 miles away," Duncan said. "But it's nice being this close."

Although both of Duncan's parents have passed away and his two sisters live in North Carolina, he tries to return to St. Croix each offseason. Only the Olympics and the birth of his first child have kept him away in recent years.

Through his foundation, Duncan purchased and installed the first wooden basketball court in St. Croix. He's provided grants to buy equipment for a local hospital; re-establish a Red Cross chapter in St. Croix; and aid the United Nations in restoring Virgin Islands communities damaged by hurricanes.

For three years, Duncan also has funded a program in St. Croix that rewards grade-school children for exhibiting strong character traits. Unable to visit St. Croix this week, he paid to have two boats bring 800 islanders to Friday's game.

Duncan re-established residency in the U.S. Virgin Islands in 1999 so he could pay income tax from his multimillion dollar NBA contracts to the island government. Two summers ago, he opted not to join his U.S. teammates in playing against the Virgin Islands in the Olympic qualifying tournament.

"He's kind of put the islands on the map, athletically," said Phoenix Suns guard Raja Bell, who also grew up in St. Croix. "He's the pride of the islands. I just don't think people understand how much he's done for the area."

St. Croix is the largest of the four U.S. Virgin Islands, measuring 84 square miles. Christopher Columbus nicknamed the island Santa Cruz when he landed there in 1493, though the sharp-tipped weapons of the local Carib Indians convinced him to quickly head to Puerto Rico.

It was here, amid St. Croix's pristine beaches, rolling hills and lush vegetation, that Duncan grew up among the 50,000 inhabitants. His mother, Ione, died from breast cancer the day before his 14th birthday. His father, Bill, worked at a hotel and helped support the family with an assortment of other maintenance jobs.

Bill was "very stern, but loving," said Harvey, who lived across the street from the Duncans' single-story stucco house. "He made sure he had his kids in order."

Duncan was not unlike most boys his age. He had a Doberman pincher named Boss. On Sundays, after attending service at St. John's, an Anglican church founded in 1760, he rode his bike or played video games.

Duncan also liked to swim. His sister, Tricia, was a member of the Virgin Islands' 1988 Olympic swim team, and Duncan showed great promise as well.

"Swimming is a great learning tool," Duncan said. "I loved it when I was in it, and I love seeing kids involved in it now."

As a student, Duncan was "quiet, but not shy," said Joelynn Grace, who taught him computer programming at St. Dunstan's Episcopal School.

"He always participated in everything," she said. Duncan, Grace recalled, started a fad at school by wearing his backpack on his chest. At Wake Forest, he also began wearing his practice shorts backward.

Duncan was 13 when Hurricane Hugo hammered St. Croix on Sept. 17, 1989. After the eye of the ferocious storm passed over the island, nearly 90 percent of the buildings were damaged. Thousands of people were left homeless, and the U.S. government dispatched military police to help restore order to the island.

Parts of St. Croix took a year to rebuild. Reported damages totaled close to $2 billion, and the physical destruction was not unlike what the U.S. Gulf Coast suffered last month from hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Duncan weathered the storm in a cinderblock bathroom at home. The house's corrugated metal roof, built by his father, miraculously remained intact.

"Having been through that and having lived through six months without power and rebuilding a community and being a part of that," Duncan said, "I see what other people are going through now and I sympathize with them."

The Country Day School pool where Duncan trained with the Dolphins Swim Team was destroyed by Hugo.

"He tried to continue swimming in open waters," said Rashidi Clenance, Duncan's closest friend since childhood. "But with the currents it just became frustrating to him, I guess."

As a result, Clenance recruited Duncan to play basketball.

"I was about business back then, so I wanted Tim on my team," he said. "He was always taller than the rest of us. I really pushed him, and once we got to know each other, we started to develop our games together.

"We got better together. But he just never stopped getting better."

Duncan played pick-up games with Clenance and other friends on the island's outdoor courts. His brother-in-law, Ricky Lowery, helped hone his skills enough that he impressed college recruiters during an exhibition against a talented U.S. touring team.

"He already had the discipline and the work ethic from swimming," Clenance said. "He just transferred that from the pool to the court."

A dozen years later, Duncan has returned as the island's most famous product. Harvey, for one, wasn't surprised.

"If you feed him well, he will play well," she said. "That's why we have strong Duncan."

[Supergirl]

The Virgin Islands is a territory of the U.S., which is different from being a state. Virgin Islands don't enjoy the same benefits and rights as U.S. citizens, therefore they shouldn't be forced to call themselves Americans when they aren't Americans.

A very similar situation is Puerto Rico - also a U.S. territory, and a more clear example (because of the large number of Puerto Rican immigrants to this country) where people want to retain their own identity as Puerto Rican, separate from being "American."

Tim made a point to refuse to play in the Olympics against the Virgin Islands a couple years back, so clearly his identity as a someone from the Virgin Islands (why is their no word for this? Shall we just start calling them "virgins"?) is important to him.

[G-Nob]

He's either an American or a terrorist.

[Summers]

The Virgin Islands is a territory of the U.S., which is different from being a state. Virgin Islands don't enjoy the same benefits and rights as U.S. citizens, therefore they shouldn't be forced to call themselves Americans when they aren't Americans.

A very similar situation is Puerto Rico - also a U.S. territory, and a more clear example (because of the large number of Puerto Rican immigrants to this country) where people want to retain their own identity as Puerto Rican, separate from being "American."

Tim made a point to refuse to play in the Olympics against the Virgin Islands a couple years back, so clearly his identity as a someone from the Virgin Islands (why is their no word for this? Shall we just start calling them "virgins"?) is important to him.

I guess my point is, Can't he be both? I'm pretty sure I've heard him refer to himself as American (or say soemthing to the effect of "I'm not really a foreigner").

[whottt]

The Virgin Islanders are Americans...they have Senators...they have delgates. The elected leader has the title of Govenor...and up until 30 or so years ago, the President of the United States appointed their leader...

If they want to be a state...they can choose to be one, the just haven't...but they also haven't chosen to be Independent either...and they can choose whatever they want...


They are a semi-independent territory, but they only reason they don't have full rights of US Citizens...is that they haven't chosen to become a state.

Nontheless, they are US Citizens.


They are not, their own country...no matter how you spin it, they aren't their own country, they are not an Independent Nation. They aren't considered to be one by anyone, including themselves...if they did consider themselves independent, they'd have chosen to be so, when it was on a ballot. They didn't.


They have their own basketball team...but they aren't an independent self governing country. They might however chose to do so at some point in the future..or they might choose statehood, but right now they are a part of America that hasn't chosen to be incorporated into the States.

[easjer]

OK, I voted before reading the thread. It's clear to me that with his residency established with the Islands, his birth there and everything that he is an Islander/Croixian, and voted accordingly. If the argument is that being a resident/son of the US Virgin Islands makes him a default American, because of the status of the Islands as a US Territory and the (limited) US citizenship they have, then yes, I can agree with that.